Does your presence offend people?

Linda writes to ask: "I'd very much like to know how you deal with the nasty glares from other grown ups when you have the audacity to take your children into such a thing as a restaurant, theatre or God forbid, hotel?" She's written about it on her fine blog You've Got Your Hands Full. I find that only eating at Pizza Express is a good solution... (image via Rich Johnson)

Comments

[Louise Hiscox]

I believe that just because we are parents does not mean we have to go out without our kids as otherwise how will they learn acceptable behaviour? I very often go to a garden centre with my mum and my 2 and we have lunch it's in Staines. This is great and has a children's corner but you still get dissapproving looks from the other people who aren't at work. Duh if you don't like kids remember they have a right out too.

I would like to find a place to eat out that isn't pizzas or fried food in the Reading area and where the kids can happily be children.

[supermother]

I will always remember the night flight back from the Caribbean with 5 children including the 1 year old twins. One or other of them cried continuously for every single moment of the 8 hours despite our taking some stuff the doctor suggested which should have induced sleep (or perhaps even because of it). Very tolerant other parents took it in turns to take one to the back of the plane.

As for restaurants once you have more than a few children you eat out less and food at home is healthier so I suppose we've solved it by mostly eating at home. It's cheaper too. Another way we deal with it is having reasonably well behaved children and not taking them to inappropriate places they won't enjoy. What normal child wants to wait a long time between courses?

[michele]

I wonder why people are singling children out as antisocial? In my experience adults are just as bad with their loud voices and rude and obscene behaviour often fuelled by too much alcohol. The problem is not children but rude children being brought up by rude parents. People who object to nice children who might be a bit bouncy are sad cold hearted types I suspect. If you want total peace and quiet, stay at home. My solution is to leave and go and live in Greece - (you might notice I go on about that a lot in my various postings) it is so different over there. Sociable folk who know how to get on together, all generations together. I can't wait.

[Peggy]

Weighing in from the US of A: There are restaurants that children enjoy and that cater to them, and then there are restaurants that bore children and cater to adults. The next time you decide to take your children to an adult restuarant, ask yourself how you would feel if you and your spouse had hired a babysitter for the evening to have a nice meal out only to find yourself next to a table where children are doing what they do when they are bored: misbehave, cry, shout, etc? I feel that if parents with small children do not have the decency to take their children to restuarants the whole family can enjoy, then they might at least have the decency to remove a screaming child from an adult-oriented restaurant. Just pick the kid up, take him or her outside and don't come back until the screaming has ceased. It is the utter failure on the part of many parents to take responsibility for the situation they have created that truly galls most other diners, perhaps especially those who have left their own children at home with a sitter.

the attitude of the british public really saddens me.

i used to live in thailand for a while and their attitude to children is so welcoming. children are respected, tolerated, welcomed and engaged with. not ignored, tutted at or glared at disprovingly.

and there's a feeling of shared responsibilitiy, friends would take care of my daughter without being asked, just take her off and entertain her.

at what point in our history did we become so intolerant?

as you rightly say, kids have rights too and they generally want to be loved and acknowledged.

[carolH]

Eating out with kids can be an absolute nightmare and it can be a true pleasure. We have a fantastic Chinese restaurant near to us which welcomes children and in fact if our 4 year old is obviously bored or a bit tetchy, the owner comes along, picks her up and takes her for a walk round the restaurant! This is a quality restaurant and not a "cheap night out". I think the trick is to introduce your children to this environment early on if you can. Our children love dining out and we have more trouble explaining we can't afford it every weekend!

We've had lots of short haul flights with our two and only once have we sat next to what can only be described as a complete "arse". We do however, sit on tenterhooks all the way through the flight saying "shh"!

[Sue]

I always remember getting onto a flight to LA with my 8 month daughter. I remember the horror of the couple who came to sit down next to me when they saw my daughter. But hey, I was like that once, oh no it's a baby...anyway the couple were a great help throughout the flight and thank goodness my daughter slept 90% of the way there. I'm off there in June - she'll then be 21 months - i can imagine it's going to be a really different experience - oh well, go with the flow!

[Izzysmum]

Admittedly some meals out can be more akin to war of the worlds. Tutters v Stressed Parents. I expect my child (5 1/2) to adhere to the same table rules set at home, the understanding being that there will be no more restaurtant treats out if she doesn't. She is a child and therefore I wouldn't take her to eat in a wine bar where adults wouldn't expect to find a child.

Simple rules; know your child, if its a really bad day..eating out won't improve things. Choose a restaurant they might at least enjoy a little, and include them, I find these things work to keep peace between those with, and those without kids. Teflon skin and Pizza Express are certainly good allies to have.

[Nix]

As ever, it's a matter of give and take. I try to stop my children from being irritating to others (and explain this to them - they don't have a right to annoy people), but one has to understand that they are kids and will tend to sometimes speak loudly, get bored etc. As has been said, we were all children once.

[Linda]

My kids sit absolutely fine and behave themselves because they have been told to, as do most children I know. I wish the same could be said for other members of my family sometimes.
This week I read that there are people who love children, people who love their own children and people who don't like children but call their pets "Baby" - sounds like it could be right to me!

How are we supposed to teach our children to be understanding and compassionate of others when they are met by such hostility sometimes?

I've just come back from a weekend away and the tutting and raising of eyebrows from people who had the misfortune to be 'held up' by an eight year-old walking slowly was quite an eye opener, and that's before all those poor souls who didn't seem to like the fact that children need public toilets too, and erm take a little time.

[Michelle]

Our children are human beings with rights, one of which is the right not to be locked away in prison type conditions. I also like to go out and enjoy time away from children so I go to non family orientated places.
I will not appolgise for my children just as I expect no one will appologise for picking on a section of society that is the most vulnerable and unable to defend themselves. I would like people to remember they were that snot nosed brat at one point and thier mum that harrassed looking mother, (and please don't try to tell me we were all perfect little angels all of the time back in our day, I threw my fair share of tantrums). This argument is just silly, there will always be children, so people just need to get over it.
I do however agree that there is no need to discuss your childs toilet habbits in Starbucks and as a parent you should make an effort to control the worst excesses of your offsprings behaviour in public.

[Lane]

I was in a Starbucks recently. A woman whose over fed, over-attended children had been running around, generally being revolting, suddenly shouted at the top of her voice, 'Octavia, would you like a poo or a wee'. The cafe positively heaved with sound of regurgitating muffins.
Why, why, for the love of all that is holy do women like this think that this is acceptable public behaviour. Tell me someone .... please.

[Jo]

As long as you can keep your children quiet, you're welcome to bring them anywhere. And by quiet, I mean sitting at the table for the entire duration of your family's time in that restaurant, with their voices at a level that doesn't disturb other diners. If you can't - pay for a babysitter.

[Helen Fox]

Its not just myself but other female friends (with nice normal children) who are heartily sick of the Rosie Millard type of look-at-me and my darling children 'mummies'. In her reply RM missed the point. Nirpal Dhaliwal wasn't getting at real, down to earth mothers but the show-offs who, without their spoilt brats, would hopefully be elsewhere- not in the cafe/restaurant where you are planning your next meeting when you are out on location, seeing clients or whatever. Unfortunately these atrocious harridans feel the need to be offensive and in-your-face wherever they go. They let their sticky-fingered brats run amok in shops, restaurants etc. Screaming and knocking things over, but 'mummy' always addresses them as 'darling'. When you do earwig their conversation none of them cares a jot about the others but its all competitive stuff. Urgh! Spare us from them, ban them from public places, please.

[Elle]

I never forget the horror on the faces of my fellow travellers when I entered a plane carrying not one but two babies.

Since then I have learnt to treat it with some humour - "Sure you don't want it? I only asked for one...." - and a Teflon skin.

[Linda]

LOL - as these clever internet types say! We have just rang up our local fine purveyor of the finest Asian cuisine, the Wyrley Spice so we can eat at home, in front of Blue Peter.