Now Claire Verity's having a go at public breastfeeding!

SCREAM! I'm getting so HIGH off the HATRED I feel for Claire Verity!
"I don't want people getting their breasts out at the dinner table," she says. "Or dropping their trousers." Blimey O'Reilley! She thinks breasts are DIRTY! As if to prove her breast/bottom confusion, she advises you go and breastfeed in the TOILET!
It's just more proof that Verity knows nothing. Do a twenty minute feed in a toilet? In my urban experience, anyone spending more than six minutes in a toilet will either be subject to a series of vexed knocks and cough from an irate queue, or the management of Ritazza Coffee kicking the door down, presuming that you're shooting up smack.
When I was on my milk round, I used to get the big guns out anywhere and everywhere. Any time I ever felt a squirming twinge of embarrassment about public breastfeeding, I would reason, silently, in my head, to the room at large: "Guys, you either get my tits, or a baby screaming its head off." I always felt that the room would, by a large majority, vote for my tits, and got them out accordingly.
Indeed, when I found out that, when a baby is inward-facing in a Baby Bjorn, you can subtly weasel a breast out, plug the baby in, and walk along, I achieved possibly the ultimate level in lactation casualness.
However, there were quite a few Turkish shopkeepers who would come over for a closer look, going "What a lovely baby! She seems very peac - oh." And then back away slowly.

Comments

[fashion for fun]

I had this discussion with my boyfriend recently. Somebody in our town got kicked out of a restaurant, because of breastfeeding. He argued in a typical male "I actually never thought about this" way, that he thinks its ok for the restaurant to do this. I got him grounded in reality again. I mean what else should a woman with a baby do. Sit at home all day ? Breastfeed in the middle of the street ? If there can be advertising with nearly naked women, Hollywood red carpet events with practically no covering, what is actually the problem with breastfeeding. Nowadays everybody knows how a breast looks like, get over it guys.

[J]

Frankly if people stared at me while I was breastfeeding it was probably my sick-covered clothes, wild, uncut hair and enormous grey bags under the eyes they were shocked by. Small glimpses of unimpressive, busy breasts were probably the least of their worries.

[EXPATMUMMY]

I breastfed all my three daughters for a year each, and felt confident and comfortable to do so. If, on occasions I caught the eye of someone giving me a look of disapproval I would shoot them one of my best Paddington Bear " come and have a go if you think you are hard enough " stares which I found always did the trick. I think the key is to look as though you have the right to be feeding in public and then people don't question you. Breastfeeding is the most natural thing in the world and can be done discreetly...it really is time for people to grow up about this whole ( non ) issue.

[supermother]

Yes but why not comfortable if bits were showing? I don't feel uncomfortable naked not that I walk around in London completely nude. What's wrong with a breast that it can't be shown?

[Daphne]

Uh...do you eat your dinner in the toilet? Is the question for such ignorant people.

I have actually breast fed both my children without gaining any attention, but it was mostly due to the clothes I bought from Motherwear that had cleverly hidden slits through which I could give my kid a tit while he sat in a sling or on my lap. There was no way I would be comfortable flapping my whole breast out in the open, but this way, I was discreet and warm (especially in the winter when those cold winds can whip through an open blouse or pulled up sweater) with my covert nursing tops or undervests. But there was no where I wouldn't feed my babies, with the exception of a toilet.

[jackie]

At the very least, we can take some comfort from the fact that Ms Verity appears to have screwed up her career royally by being on this show - who in their right mind would hire her / buy a book by her after seeing all this? And I'd ahve grave reservations about sending my child to the childminder mother who agreed to live by her rules to ensure her good night's sleep

[kieransmum]

Speaking of breastfeeding...I'm feeding at the moment. Tonight I had to take the baby out with me to order a takeaway pizza. Sods law, the moment we got into the (halal, Asian-owned) takeaway he started bawling for food. I was the only woman present, all the other customers were in traditional Islamic (post-haj, I think) clothes.
Anyway, I stiffened my resolve, remembered Caitlin and said to the guy behind the counter, "Er, do you mind if I breast-feed?" He looked at me as if I was completely daft for asking, and said, go ahead. I sat in a corner and not one customer gave me so much as a stony look.
I prefer that kind of multiculturalism to, er, ignorant British people like Claire Verity...

[Jennifer]

When I was breast-feeding I was pretty casual about the whole thing, feeding whenever she needed it. The one exception was in a posh store in the middle of town. I was with a friend and said, "Oh there's a chair in the ladies lounge (outer room), I'll just do it there." My friend (who doesn't have children) said, "Forget it! You will not feed your daughter near where people are defecating." So we went to the cafe and no one blinked an eye.

[Jane]

Lisa - huge sympathy. I think a lot of parents just CBA to ensure their children behave in a considerate and civilised manner. I think most people are sympathetic about children in distress, eg babies crying noisily, but NOT about brat-behaviour. Sadly, horrible children grow up to be horrible adults if SOMEONE doesn't teach them consideration for others.

Mind you, I do have sympathy for bored children, whose parents are too neglectful or just stupid (!) and don't bring some inflight entertainmetn along! It's not hard to keep them occupied - crayons, books, dolls, playing trains under the table etc, or even story tapes. Later on, Gameboys are godsends!

[Lisa]

I don't have children myself (though two gorgeous nephews and a gorgeous niece), but there are times when I am definitely anti-children. Anti-badly behaved children, that are left to run riot. I used to work as a waitress, and it was a nightmare when some parents brought their children into the restaurant. There was one I would never forget whose daugther had broken two plates within minutes of stepping into the restaurant, and then spent the rest of the time running up and down while mummy sat having coffee and occassionally going "darling, don't do that". I'm sorry, but restaurants can be dangerous places (hot foods, knives etc) and people shouldn't bring their children in if they can't keep them under control and the children don't know how to behave. Chances are, if "darling" had injured herself, Mommy would've sued the restaurant. If you aren't able to raise your children to be acceptable and productive members of society, don't have them.
As for breast feeding in public, go for it.

[Mumoftwo]

I've always breastfed wherever I am, I certainly wouldn't sit on an unsanitary toilet to feed a baby, what an unpleasant experience for everyone and unhygenic. No-one has ever tutted, I think you can be fairly discreet although whipping your breasts out in front of male friends and family the first time can be a little daunting. I know two women, one of whom chose not to breastfeed and one who gave up very quickly, because they felt so self-conscious about it. The best way around this is just to make it normal by doing it and ignoring out-dated child 'pundits' (I can't use the word experts, it doesn't seem appropriate).

[kieransmum]

Yeah, me too, I think that's absolutely right.

[Goodenoughmummy]

Well said Jane. I was about to post something about this, then I read your post and thought "Sod it, jane's said it all"! :-)

[Jane]

I think 'anti-breastfeeding in public' is also part of a wider 'anti-children' culture, where we basically tut-tut when children are around and the 'norm' is to be childfree. Children are regarded as a nuisance - not least because they mean that TV programmes can't be too explicit before 9 pm etc, and so right-minded sex and violence fans feel their rights are violated and they are subject to censorship, ditto for the purveyors of lad's mags, who see no reason why they should have to bung them on a top shelf so children can't reach them

BUT, that said (OK, moaned!), one of the aspects of having a child-friendly 'normal culture' pervasive, which includes breast feeding, and children in restaurnats, etc etc, is that there is a concommitant obligation of mutual courtesy that parents do NOT let their children behave like brats and annoy the hell out of everyone else by running wild, noisy, etc etc ec. We all know that continental children are ferociously well behaved in comparison, and that that is therefore their 'ticket' into being 'allowed' into the adult world.

In sum, I think it's a two-way street. yes, breastfeed in public, but, don't flash the flesh on the grounds that it's 'your right' - yes, take children into restaurants, cinemas, theatres etc, but don't let them run riot and make a pain of themselves.

We all have to live in this world, so it's live and let live (except for fans of horror porn and Belle de Jour who should be locked up for life thank you very much. So there.)

[supermother]

You could write to your MPs. I think it was in June Ruth Kelly introduced the Single Equality Bill so that we have the same express right as in Scotland.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/article2651047.ece

[Kim]

Good to see a consensus on this one. It's interesting that when we live in a society that is supposedly free from prudishness that people get so uptight about public breastfeeding. I was always happy to breastfeed my daughter publicly - I didn't see any reason why I should drag her off to a toilet to do it. What's to be ashamed of? No-one ever tried to stop me either, and on two occasions older women came up to me and said how nice it was to see a baby breastfed.

[lesley]

someone just needs to chuck some water over her!!!

'HELP! HELP! I'M MELTING!!!'

go fly my beauties!!!

[Baby blue]

The ad Gypsy mentioned makes the point very well!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnReJeQrK0k

[supermother]

We need the law changed as it was in Scotland so there is an express right, rather than the issue over whether you might be causing a breach of the peace (which depends on who is viewing you and their reactions).

I don't find that very sexual men worry about breastfeeding. It's more likely to be the prudish ones and often women as much as men. Everyone was breastfed in the UK until relatively recently and if you go to many other countries where it's still the norm you will see women breastfeeding wherever they are.

It's the way people are brought up which is the problem with lots of hang ups about all kinds of normal life things like death, birth, menstruation, sex, nudity. So it's in our own hands to ensure we have well adjusted children without hang ups.

[Melissaria]

If you feel as strongly about this subject as I do, and you haven't already done so, please, please go to the website of The Breastfeeding Manifesto and add your support in whatever way you choose.

It's so silly that with the scientific evidence available about the benefits of breastfeeding, it's still such an issue to do it in public. Please don't just sit here booing about it - do something positive to change it! I have.

http://www.breastfeedingmanifesto.org.uk

[Gipsy]

There's a seat in the toilet! I have enough problems using any sort of public toilet, even one in a post restaurant. When you flush a loo the bacteria leaps up a good few feet into the air! In most public loos, I never even sit on the seat, let alone sit there feeding baby. I saw an effective advert for breastfeeding a while ago - it was someone sitting on a toilet with a plate of food on their lap eating. The caption went along the lines of 'would you eat your dinner in there?'. So sure, you can argue that you are clean, and the baby isn't going to touch any of the toilet area. But then you could also take a perfectly clean plate of food in there, use your behind to nudge the door shut, sit down on the loo and eat your food, after all neither the plate nor your hands, nor your face etc were touching any of the toilet area. But you wouldn't, would you? So why expect babies to do this?

[Wendy V]

My parents and parents-in-law, too, remember the sight of women breastfeeding in public - buses, trams, parks - being a normal part of their childhoods (in the 30s and 40s). It was normal, essential, no big deal. The advent of prudishness, and greater use of formula, made it a less common sight in the 50s and 60s.

Just to correct something in Caitlin's original post, it was actually Dreena Hamilton, the "Spock" advocate, who said it was acceptable to breastfeed in a toilet: "Why not? There's a seat!" she said. She and Claire Verity were both anti breastfeeding in public, which I find bizarre.

I think attachment parenting, as advocated by the other Clare (Scott), comes out looking a very sane and humane parenting style. She's the only one who hasn't said anything to make me want to hurl shoes at the telly.

[Jane]

"When she was a child in the thirties, women breast fed where-ever they were. It wasn't an uncommon sight on the bus. Babies need feeding, women need to get on with their lives, especially in those days when most of the women took whatever work they could get. No-one thought anything of it."

That's news to me! As in good news. I honestly hadn't realised that there was so little fuss about it. I suppose before bottles etc, it was your only option, and that was that.

Of course, women were not as hideously sexualised as they are now in our porno-society, so I guess even men accepted the primary function of breasts was feeding their children, not their sexual fantasies...

Re leaving children outside - I don't have a problem with this if they are asleep, as lots of fresh air is brilliant. OK, you need a net to stop insects biting/stinging, or cats finding a warm place to sleep (that, strangely, starts to grow cold eventually - SCARY).

But if they are well wrapped up etc, they won't catch cold.

Obviously, if they are pushed outside to bawl their poor little abandoned hearts out, then that's a different matter. Can't imagine the neighbours would be too happy either.

[Gipsy]

when at my husband's elderly aunt's house, I thought it polite to ask her before I started breastfeeding. She was very sympathetic - thought it awful that these days people are so anti-breastfeeding in public. When she was a child in the thirties, women breast fed where-ever they were. It wasn't an uncommon sight on the bus. Babies need feeding, women need to get on with their lives, especially in those days when most of the women took whatever work they could get. No-one thought anything of it.

[Yvonne]

She's clearly disturbed. We should feel sorry for her really and definetly not let her loose on any more unsuspecting children ever again. Leaving a baby outside has just got to be a crime, surely?

I've only been asked once to desist feeding my child in a restaurant. I refused telling them I was well within my rights to breastfeed a hungry baby. It was actually a bit of a bluff because I wasn't sure if it was a human right or not.

I'm sure I showed a lot more of my breasts pre-pregnancy in low cut tops and push up bras than I ever did breastfeeding which can be done very subtly with practise.