Jenny Colgan on Claire Verity: I thought we were past all that

Uh-oh, the paramilitary wing of the NCT strikes again. This time it's Claire Verity, one of the baby experts on Channel 4s 'Really? Controversial? Us? We hadn't noticed' show, 'Bringing Up Baby'. Claire's the one who suggests leaving your babies outside overnight on a hillside and, if they're not eaten by wolves you can keep them.

Well, not really. She advocates four-hourly feeds, leaving babies to cry and not to cuddle them too much, the most counter-intuitive baby advice since 'oh, and while you're at it, why not tie up the girls' feet really really tightly?'.

Now she's been, uh, 'disinvited' from appearing at a childrearing conference, for fears that there will be barracking and stage invasions from infuriated (and knackered from all that co-sleeping presumably) mothers.

Jings, here we go again. I thought we were moving into an age of being able to say, babies are different, parents are different, can't we all just follow our instincts? But apparently not. I look forward to the mass burnings if she brings out a book.

But I have a confession to make...

Yes, the National Union of Midwives says you should keep the baby in your room until their six months to reduce the risk of cot death, as does the Foundation for the Study of Infant Deaths (you can read their response to Claire here). But, as a disobedient mother I say that if I keep waking up every time Junior snuffles, I am going to be so exhausted I will crash the car with both of us in it, plus the toddler, and all three of us will die, as well as half of the Scout hut I've just ploughed into.

And that's the point. Having a baby should make you a grown-up, who can interpret advice as it suits you and your baby, and there isn't a mothering guru in the world who doesn't say this, including Claire Verity, (who by the way is only doing what your mother probably did to you).

But that's how it is. Motherhood is divisive and everyone has their own views on it. But it's only middle class mothers who give a toss about this kind of thing or think it even matters, and our kids grow up fine - or nasty, or smart or lazy or delightful or all of those things, but fine on the whole - utterly regardless of whether they are bottle or breast, c-section or drug-free birth, and with no connection to their bedtime routines, as long as you love them. And I have no doubt that everyone who even reads or watches advice, and cares that much, loves their child to bits.

So enough with the barracking, and flame wars, and posted malice. Personally I'd rather see a baby brought up by a mother who leaves a child to settle itself than one who would actually go along to appear at a conference in order to thuggishly shout at a woman they dislike - perhaps dragging along their older children to show them what a witch hunt looks like - but that's just me.

Or, as Andrew Billen, another new dad, wrote in the Times:

"Babies love a consistent system and it doesn’t so much matter what that system is. But they will have you for breakfast if they smell fear."

Oh, and it's your baby. Cuddle them whenever the hell you want.

Comments

[Mappy]

Discredited fraud is discredited.

[Jane]

"How can someone who is not a mum be a parenting expert? Odd"

Sums it up completely for me. Why on earth pay the slightest attention to the childcare advice of someone who is not a parent. Gina Ford isn't one either.

And whilst I agree on the point about 30 years of baby research etc saying her approach is wrong, nevertheless, I really don't feel any parent needs scientific research to tell them that ignoring a baby who needs them is a good thing to do.

Is there any ESSENTIAL difference, by the way, in reinforcing a particular behaviour (in the baby's case, not crying) by negative feedback which consists of ACTIVE negative feedback (eg, electric shocks) or what CV advocates, PASSIVE negative feedback (ie, being ignored).

If she advocated the former, she'd be in gaol. But the psychology is the same in both aproaches - behavioural conditioning by condign feedback.

We're right back with the NSPCC's chilling 'He's a quiet baby - he's learnt no one comes when he cries'.

Surely this woman's 'licence to practice' should be immediately revoked, and she should be banned from working with children for the rest of her life.

[Lindsay]

How can someone who is not a mum be a parenting expert? Odd.

[Mumoftwo]

I also thought this article was a bit odd and not factually correct. In fact, I've been amazed at how united parents have been, from all spectrums of parenting, in standing up and saying 'this is not acceptable parenting in the 21st century'. I'm no apologist for the NCT and I also followed a loose routine-based approach, but I do know my psychology and leaving babies to cry from birth all night til they learn not to does go against the last thirty years of research into attachment and bonding, which by the way isn't some hippy theory, but actually very mainstream. Like others, I also think Jenny misunderstands Claire Verity's approach when she says that even she knows that one size doesn't fit all. That's the whole point, Jenny, she does believe that one size fits all and it doesn't appear to be a very nice one for the child, which is why the vast majority of people on this thread are united in their view that this is not a nice way to parent.

[lizi k]

oh dear, Timesonline, you have employed someone with no journalistic ability whatsoever! Jenny opens with a stinging comment about 'the paramilitary wing of the NCT strikes again'.....uhm, since when was the NCT involved with Claire Verity? Have they condoned or condemned her? NO, they have not - how dare you associate the NCT with this woman who peddles neglect in the name of 'parenting advice'.
Get your facts straight, Judith before you start yelling.

[Kim]

Just wanted to back up what CECE said. The fact that this article starts with " the paramilitary wing of the NCT strikes again" is irritating and unfair beyond belief. The NCT don't even seem to have entered this debate. So, she's been disinvited from this baby show, according to Colgan on the basis that people MIGHT shout abuse at her, but so far nobody has actually shouted abuse at her, so to criticise women who "would actually go along to appear at a conference in order to thuggishly shout at a woman they dislike" is just attacking a straw man. Or woman.

[Jane]

I was depressed to read the defensive article by Daisy Goodwin (whom otherwise I've thought was quite a level headed journalist - was she one who did the series of programes about why women get addicted to romantic fiction, and was swanning about in a Scarlett O Hara outfit? Did enjoy that!).

However, I think she did shed some interesting light on CV, saying she'd (ie CV) been brought up like that, and so had her mother by 'no nonsense Yorkshirewomen' or something like that. So, with my amateur pyschologist hat firmly on, I would suggest that what is going on here is that CV was herself as abused/neglected/controlled/punished for existing just as the children she is advocating parents to abused/neglect/control/punish for existing, and she has become 'Stockholmed' in that she either has to denouce her own mother/grandmother, or defend them - and she's gone for the latter. She's like the bullying father who says 'Having a strap taken to me as a kid never did ME any harm!' - not realising that well, yes, it did, it turned him into a bullying father who thinks there's nothing wrong with belting your children..

I think CV urgently needs to see a pyschiatrist, in order to uncover just WHY it is she hates babies so much.

DW also fell into the usual trap of saying 'every parent has their own way of parenting' which, sadly, isprobably just what the child-beating parents say - "Well, that's MY way of parenting - beat the crap out of them till they do what they're told..."

[Clare]

Rachel, when Jenny made her "knackered from all that co-sleeping presumably" comment, I assumed she was referring to co sleeping in general, not specifically those parents who are co sleeping with loudly snoring babies owing to floppy epiglottises ( epiglotti?)
Incidentally, each to their own, but given that snoring ( whether the cause is a floppy epiglottis or otherwise) is associated with obstructed airways and apnoeic episodes, I would regard that as all the more reason to have the baby near me.

[Cece]

It is obvious Jenny hasn't watched the programme at all.

[TRACEY THOMPSON]

I AM A MOTHER OF FOUR THE YOUNGEST BEING 12 WKS OLD. I HAVE BEEN HORRIFIED WHILST WATCHING THE PROGRAMME AS THE MERE THOUGHT OF GOING THROUGH NINE MTHS OF PREGNANCY AND THEN CHILD BIRTH ITSELF ONLY TO ABANDON THE POOR THING FOR MOST OF THE DAY AND NIGHT IS SIMPLY CRUEL. EACH BABY HAS BECOME EASIER AND MY NATURAL INSTINCT HAS NOW ENABLED ME TO HAVE THE PERFECT ROUTINE THAT SUITS ME! I THINK THE 1950'S METHOD STINKS. MY WAY HAS KEPT ME EMOTIONALLY STABLE AT A TIME WHEN A NEW MOTHER COULD QUITE EASILY LOSE THE PLOT. STRIKE A BALANCE, LOTS OF CUDDLES INCLUDED.

[Kim]

According to the Observer today, even Gina Ford has come out against Claire Verity. So looks like CV has no friends left at all...the miracle is she ever managed to find employment in the first place.

[Pinky]

"Having a baby should make you a grown-up, who can interpret advice as it suits you and your baby, and there isn't a mothering guru in the world who doesn't say this, including Claire Verity"

Er, no she doesn't. She tells her "clients" to do exactly what she says (example: no cuddling for more than 10 minutes a day), and gets angry with them if they try and think for themselves. In other words, she treats them like small children. Have you actually watched the programme, Jenny?

[Cece]

What's all this nonsnense about the 'paramilitary wing of the NCT strikes again'? The NCT has said nothing about Claire Verity, which, I think, is not entirely to the organisation's credit. CV's methods are obviously abusive and cruel. But it's not the NCT saying so, it's the ordinary people - parents mostly - who have watched this horrible programme aghast, and often in tears.

[supermother]

Interesting that people will cast into the depths a snoring child but tolerate a snoring husband for 30 years. So is that because we put sex above reducing the risk of cot death?

[Rachel]

Oh, you co-sleepers: just wait until you get a baby with a floppy epiglottis!!!!! Our Number Two sounded like an express train. After two nights of no sleep (despite earplugs and pillows on our heads), she was consigned to the bathroom in her carry-cot (we had no spare room at the time). That way we could hear her if she cried, but could sleep without a mini-earthquake beside us. There's no way anyone would have been co-sleeping with her! Just goes to show: what's best for one baby and family isn't necessarily best for another...

[Wendy V]

I had fantastic support from the NCT too. My ante-natal teacher happened to visit me in hospital while my son was in special care, and found me in tears because the staff were refusing to let me hold him or feed him (they were "too busy" and kept fobbing me off). She had a word and within minutes he was in my arms feeding. Her timing was so perfect it felt like an angel had descended.

[Baby blue]

Michelle - please don't shoot the lovely NCT councillor who helped me when I had problems breastfeeding. She was fantastically supportive and without her I wouldn't be breastfeeding my baby today.

I don't care how you choose to feed your child, so why would you want to stop me - and the thousands of other women breastfeeding councillors help - feeding ours the way we want to?

'should all be shot'? Lovely view.

[supermother]

There are objective rights and wrongs as someone mentioned below. We can't always leave parents to get on with it. Some have their daughters circumcised. Some beat their children with sticks etc etc.

It's great to have debates because it helps parents who are getting it wrong learn what they should be doing to do it better.

Then there are also things that aren't wrong or illegal but are within a range of what we can accept in the UK.

[Cece]

Yes, because I'm sure that you, Jenny et al, would love to live in a world where the people you think love you won't look at you, or hold you when you are frightened or sad, and laugh when you cry. And lock you out of the house for hours and won't say where they are.
If that's abusive and scary for adults, just think how terrifying it would be for a newborn baby, who knows just about nothing in the world but the warmth of your body, your smell and your voice.
CV recommends holding a baby away from you when feeding 'it' because otherwise you might cuddle 'it' too much. That's abusive, plain and simple.

[ari]

of course, claire variety is right .I cant believe the whole of britain is so deluded and doesnt see what is happening to its children of the wrapped up in cotton wool culture!

[Clare]

"knackered from all that co-sleeping"
Heh heh heh! Au Contraire dear Jenny, I will confidently challenge you to find a SINGLE co sleeping mother who will not confirm that sleeping with your baby ensures a quieter more restful night. That was also the case for the couples who took part in the Channel 4 programme. Co sleeping was the runaway winner in terms of well slept mummies and daddies. I am currently co sleeping with my fifth baby, as I did with all her brothers. I discovered it, not because I had read a book or had a big idea or 'concept', but because I was too knackered to put my first baby back into the moses basket only to have him keep squeaking and fussing.I found when I kept him with me that he often slept through the entire night ( but woke up ravenous of course) Bingo! Co Sleeping is not for the knackered Martyr Mummy but for the smart mummy who loves her sleep (almost) as much as her newborn cherub.

[Clare]

"knackered from all that co-sleeping"
Heh heh heh! Au Contraire dear Jenny, I will confidently challenge you to find a SINGLE co sleeping mother who will not confirm that sleeping with your baby ensures a quieter more restful night. That was also the case for the couples who took part in the Channel 4 programme. Co sleeping was the runaway winner in terms of well slept mummies and daddies. I am currently co sleeping with my fifth baby, as I did with all her brothers. I discovered it, not because I had read a book or had a big idea or 'concept', but because I was too knackered to put my first baby back into the moses basket only to have him keep squeaking and fussing.I found when I kept him with me that he often slept through the entire night ( but woke up ravenous of course) Bingo! Co Sleeping is not for the knackered Martyr Mummy but for the smart mummy who loves her sleep (almost) as much as her newborn cherub.

[Jane]

"Motherhood is divisive and everyone has their own views on it. "

I'd say it's probably impossible to get a woman who does NOT want to cuddle her baby, go to them when they're crying etc, to become one who DOES want to do those things, and I'd say, right out, that the former aren't really 'natural mothers' and will bring up screwed up kids and probably shouldn't have had them at all...

BUT the crime that the likes of CV seem to be committing is in STOPPING those mothers who DO want to cuddle and comfort their babies from doing so. And, of course, to my mind, ENCOURAGING those who don't want to cuddle and comfort not to do so!

Yes, everyone has their own views on motherhood/parenting - and some are wrong. eg, the ones that want to mutilate their daughters' genitals, beat them, lock them in cupboards to discipline them, etc etc etc etc. I would put ignoring comforting and cuddling into the 'wrong' category (but no, not nearly as wrong as the extreme examples I've given above).

[Julia]

I can remember teacher training in the 1970's when a book by,I think, John Bolby called Child care and the growth of love said something about ignoring crying babies caused them no end of harm as older children and adults. Surely the adult is there as primary carer - and love is one of the greatest aspects of that care. This should not be an experiment to see which baby sleeps best by 3 months - how will the children be affected by this when they are older - too risky to play around with. I did my own thing with my 3, breast fed till they were fed up with it, slept with me till they wanted to move out into their own bed, - yes they still had temper tantrums, didn't sleep through, and drove me demented at times, but are happy, healthy adults and I wouldn't do any of it differently.

[A mother]

Exhausted co-sleepers? Are you kidding? Co-sleeping mums are the laziest women in the world - baby lets out a squeak, mum rolls over and offers breast, and falls straight back to sleep. Buh-bye hours of rocking and putting baby back down, just let 'em have at the mammary till they are asleep again themselves.

(there is advice on safe co-sleeping at askdrsears.com, by the way)