How to get dad more involved

Alpha Mummy received this email from N, who wonders how she can get her husband more involved with her 12-month-old son.

He has been such a good baby, very smiley, giggly and lots of fun. He wasn't planned, my husband and I were only married 3 months when I discovered I was pregnant (oooops!!) I was a bit traumatised, however my husband was always a bit more pro-the-parent thing.

Like most women the second he was born I fell totally in love and wouldn't swap him for the world, however my husband is so not interested.

I have always made a big effort to include him and not make him feel pushed to the side. But now I always feel so dissapointed that I have to harrass him to spend time with his son - he gets on like it is such a big chore! We recently got a puppy (totally agree with the post about new puppy v. baby!) the whole family loves him, but now my husband spends hours playing with and loving the damn puppy and even less time with my son. I know some men just don't do the baby thing but is this really normal? I am surrounded by men and husbands that just seem to be more hands on...

Anyone out there have ideas for N?

Comments

[Mumoftwo]

I second that, The Grocer, my friends who had twins about a year ago say the nights are terrible; everyone told them that each twin would sleep through each other's crying. After six months of hellish stereo yelling from the one room, they gave up and separated them and now dad goes to one, mum to the other and they are both permanently knackered!

[The Grocer]

You lot should try having twins, there isn't any room for complaceny for anyone.

[supermother]

Actually the secret is in your pre-marital due diligence. You look at how involved their own father was and discuss their views on parenting and then you get yourself back to full time work PDQ with a 3 line whip on him to be home first to collect the child or relieve the nanny on a good few days a week; you out earn him too which always helps and you go out and leave him to it. You never criticise and you accept he will be different with the child but possibly better than you are with it - in other words a bit of maternal humility helps.

Make it a thing that he's good with the baby. Tell people his mother, his siblings - isn't so and so good with the baby and then just make it all equal. Of course anyone choosing the outdated sexist model of housewife and working husband deserves any problems they have. It just doesn't work if you want a nice relationship with some equality and fairness in 2007 which is why most mothers of under 5s do work.

[Jane]

I have to say I can't see what use a dad is in the middle of the night when you are breastfeeding, unless it's to go and get you a nice cuppa or something. That's why I say he might as well be getting a good night's sleep in his own room.

If he is full time working, and you are not (ie, full time SAH), for whatever duration, it does seem very unfair to expect a working man to have interrupted nights when he can't make them up during the day! (well, not officially!). And I agree, the BF stuff is only a year, at most probably, so it's not that big a deal, providing he's doing lots of babystuff when he's home (but BOTH of you need 'time off' from baby-care!)

I agree about the general taboo about separate beds. In lots of cases, and for lots of couples, it's a sensible option - eg, snorers, early-risers/night owls combis, etc, and does not of itsleff mean youre heading for divorce. I think it can save marriages in some respects.

[Lazy Mummy]

Separate rooms work for some people but not others, but I don't think there's a correlation between where you sleep & how hands on you are with your child. We use separate rooms about half the time, but didn't start doing that until after our baby was older & out of our room anyway (for us, it's about managing different schedules).

Andy - you asked how can a dad ever claim to play an equal part, and of course, physically having the child & breastfeeding is a huge deal for women at the time, but it's a short time, really and, IMO, not an excuse to always claim our moral superiority wrt. "sacrifice" for the children. Sure, it's a big deal, but so is the everyday business of parenting, and really, after the initial baby stage, either parent can be equally hands-on with everything (though, of course, you might prefer the same-gender parent to help navigate some of those "firsts" in puberty). I think we women do both fathers & mothers an injustice if we claim greater sacrifice simply because of pregnancy, labour & breastfeeding.

[Mrs L]

I completely disagree with the separate rooms thing. I am certain my husband is so hands on with the kids because we never stopped sleeping in the same bed and he has therefore always got up in the night as much as me for the kids. He feels much more confident about comforting them and just "being there" for them as a result. And they expect comfort and care from him as much as me. Definitely don't banish the man to the spare room.

[Andy]

No-one seems to be saying it openly, but N's husband is being selfish, whether deliberately or not. Communication helps, but it has to be said that you need to think (and communicate) about these sorts of things well in advance of the crisis.
I can't judge in this case of course, but did the self-centredness really only start at birth? There are plenty of men who still believe that they should get their dinner on the table when they work the same or less hours. It's old news that children change everything, but if you've talked about it together then you're at least going in as a team. There were of course a few things I couldn't do for my kids, like giving birth and breastfeeding, and given that, how can a Dad ever make a claim to play an equal part? But, for instance, at night I did everything but the actual feeding. If nothing else, it sends the message that you're making the effort.

[Mumoftwo]

I'm with Jane on the separate beds if you can for at least part of the time if he's continuing with full-time work for the first six months. First time around, I also felt my husband 'should' be with me in the night to help, but ultimately as I was the one breastfeeding at night, he could never do anything (just got broken sleep) and learnt to snore through any cries, but felt totally knackered and grumpy in the morning and then had to work a 12 hour day. At least as a SAHM, I was able to sleep when the baby slept, I got an extra couple of naps per day in all through the first six months (no housework for me during this time). I don't think it should be phrased as 'the cute baby has arrived now dear, you are redundant, off you go', but I honestly think relationships are more likely to be damaged when you are both ill with exhaustion than if one of you is a little protected. Now, post-tiny baby we share a bed approximately half the week and the other half (say if he has to get up early or comes in after I've gone to bed) we sleep separately. I have other friends who have done this for years, but it is a big taboo for some and people do raise their eyebrows at the 'his' and 'hers' bedroom arrangement and assume you are heading for the divorce courts!

[Jane]

"Jane I have to disagree about the spare bed though. For the baby to be the cause of banishing the man from the marital bed? Oh dear no. "

I think it does depend on several factors - not least the size of the bed! It also depends on how grumpy your particular husband gets when his sleep is interrupted, how 'hands on' he is anyway in being a new dad doing babycare routines, it depends how often your baby wakes, how your husband feels about 'routine' etc.

I think, however, there is currently a HUGE taboo about the idea of separate bedrooms for new parents, which I think is entirely unhelpful in practical terms. Dads now are SUPPOSED to be hands on, sharing baby-care etc, and I think they feel they SHOULD be doing that. BUT, of course, they also feel they want a good night's sleep (especially if they have to still meet a daily office commute/days work etc, and the wife is SAH)(she can always catch up with her sleep in the afternoon baby-sleep times!)(NO DO NOT CLEAN THE HOUSE WHEN THE BABY FALLS ASLEEP - JUST SLEEP YOURSELF!!!!!!). So I think, all too often (certainly in my own experience) Dads react by trotting out the dear old CV mantra that babies 'should' sleep the night through without waking blah blah blah, which can just lead to huge tension and rows (which, because the BOTH of you are jagged from sleep deprivation, are even nastier than ever)

The 'dads do babycare' is the same kind of 'is/ought' stuff that afflicts BF so deleteriously - yes, BF 'ought' to be loverly-doverly and painfree and plentiful blah blah, but in reality it often isn't.

I just think it is LOADS better to stop worrying about whether it's 'bad' to sleep in separate rooms, or that it's some kind of 'failure of parenting' to do so. Much better to put Dad in the spare room, you and baby in the big bed.

As for the 'other stuff', well, don't tell me hubby wouldn't like to find you slinking into his lovely bed, which you have, of course, made up with black satin sheets etc, whispering the magically seductive words 'the baby's fallen asleep'....

[michele]

I completely agree with Jane about Dads in the spare room. My husband went off to get a good nights sleep when our first baby was born and I was so worried and thought our relationship had changed. 4 years later I've just had the third and this time I suggested he move out in the last month of the pregnancy as the king size bed seemed too cramped for the three of us and I had a much better night when I could spread my whale like bulk and 5 pillows over the whole bed. The thing is it all passes - with the first baby you think things have changed forever but honestly it all comes back. The babies grow up, the Dads get more involved. They are all much better with older children. I came home from a meeting tonight to find the 2 year old and the 4 year old perfectly well looked by after by Daddy but the baby screaming because he hadn't realised she was hungry. All he had to do for peace was make up a bottle( and she is 6 months for the breast is best brigade) but he didn't think of it - and this is a father of 3. Once the babies start talking the Dads engage more - the children demand it. At present the puppy is probably better fun but just wait a few months - that puppy is going to learn where it stands.

[Claire King]

I'd like to strongly agree with the point raised about not criticising his efforts, if you don't like it don't watch. And a bit of praise afterwards works a treat.

Jane I have to disagree about the spare bed though. For the baby to be the cause of banishing the man from the marital bed? Oh dear no.

[CW]

Had exactly this problem.

What helped:
Boring baby turns into adoring toddler who says "naughty daddy" delightedly when they do guy stuff together (rough and tumble) that mummy doesn't do.

Go away alone for the weekend - provide some childcare relief so it's not a marathon, but leave dad in charge.

Don't make your husband get up in the night, unless you really are about to die of fatigue.

[Mumoftwo]

I can totally relate to the jealousy of thinking everyone else had really hands on husbands who were engaged in child-care from Day 1 and wondering why my husband came home so late from work and, if asked to bath our daughter or change her nappy, just used to shrug his shoulders and say 'no, you do it' (with baby screaming in background of course). I agree with all the other posters: plenty of daddy only time without you hovering around, don't criticise when you do come back and the house is a tip, dirty nappies are not in the bin and he's letting the baby play with his mobile instead of those lovely educational toys you have bought: if the baby is still in one piece, then just smile and say 'you look like you are having fun' and moan to your mum later. My husband was a very slow starter in the parent stakes, but he now cares three days a week for my two daughters and loves his bond with them, so a bit of patience, encouragement and time will probably have him loving every minute of it.

[Lisa]

I think another factor is that lots of men just aren't used to being around babies prior to having their own. Some women are the same, and it is sad that many adults aren't exposed to children and babies that often and don't have an understanding of what they're really like (and I include myself in this. There have been occassions where, as I hardly ever see them, I have mistaken children for midgets). But, it is one of the sweetest things in the world seeing a father with their child. My brother and his wife have a four month old, and seeing my 6 foot 3 brother cooing over this little baby is amazing. When my nephew was born, he was really ill and we asked my brother what he wanted for his birthday (9 days after baby's birthday) and he said "for my son to come home. Nothing else".

[beta mum]

Try going away for the weekend - he'll learn to cope, the baby will survive and you'll get a fun time with some friends.
Our second child hardly noticed her father for the first year, she was so besotted with me, as I was the main carer and the one with the breasts.
He found this a bit upsetting, but realised it would change as she got older. And it has.
You can help it change by leaving him on hs own with the baby - hence the weekend away as a starter-for-ten.

[Jane]

I agree that Dads can find themselves 'spare wheels' (to allude to their favourite obsession...!)when it comes to sprogging. One thing they are good at, though, I'd say from experience, is like the way they are good with cats - they provide a warm surface to sleep on. I have a fantastic photo of our teeny weeny son fast asleep on his dad's chest, as he chilled with a beer (I was in the kitchen, cooking dinner....). And speaking of beer, my OH could always raise a gasp of awe and amazement from his toddler son when he casually crushed a beer can in his bare hand! One of the first 'boy skills' he ever taught him....

[kieransmum]

I think that some dads do struggle to bond with babies. In many ways I think this generation of mums have very different expectations about how involved the dads 'should' be - it may be something as simple as your husband reflecting his own father's detachment with small babies. The wonderful thing about it, as someone noted, is that babies stop being cute adorable little things and start being walking-talking trail-of-destruction toddlers who simply demand attention. Short of leaving the house, he won't be able to be off-duty because the child will constantly be demanding his attention and love, just like yours, all the time.
I have a good male friend who recently confided to me that until his eldest child was about eighteen months old he just wasn't particularly keen on her, and thought they'd made a bit of a mistake by having children, because babies were just so boring. Needless to say he's a wonderful father, deeply committed to all three of his kids. I suspect it took a lot of courage to confess to those early feelings, and it may well be that your husband is in the same boat.

[Jane]

I'm afraid I have to say, very nastily I know, that I think the only reason men don't cope with interrupted nights as well as women is because they're too b/y selfish!

I did know one mother whose husband GENUINELY believed that somehow it was 'less awful' for women to have intrrupted nights - in the same way that when women have flu, they don't have it as badly as men....

The reason my OH said he wouldn't get up in the night was that I damn well should have done the sleep training and that it was my fault if I got interrupted nights, and that was that! Again, I think maybe that's because men DO find it easier to ignore a crying baby (as in, easier to ignore going to it!), because, yes, they're more selfish about their own needs/desires etc. But of course, that could just be my own personal OH!!! (It's OK, he does the self-sacrifice in other ways, so it's a zero sum in the end.)

[Lazy Mummy]

Oh, as I think about this, perhaps it's stating the bleeding obvious, but maybe not, as so many people seem to have problems with this....

Has N talked to her husband about this, dispassionately, outside of the house, without the baby around to interfere? So many of us have such a hard time learning our new roles in the first year after having a baby (no matter how long we've been married) and we just forget to talk. Communication doesn't fix everything, but without it, you don't stand much chance of changing anything.

[Lazy Mummy]

I also agree with everything posted (Jane, I think you're right about men coping less with sleep-deprivation, unfortunately, maybe it's tied to the thing about them stronger/faster, but with less stamina than women).

We had a similar situation at first with, but when I went back to work I insisted that my husband take some FMLA ("family/medical leave", you can't discriminate, being the US, so fathers & mothers both get the same allowance). He took 2 months, reluctantly at first but it turned out to be the best thing we could have done; amazing bonding experience for both of them & he was v. proud of being the expert on introducing solid food (thank god - I can't stand sticky messes).

I'll probably sound just like Supermother, but: it seems to me that if both parents earn similar salaries, the father has less of an excuse for not being equally involved in domestic life - housekeeping, maintenance, childcare.

[Daphne]

Before having first child, I did a lot of reading on the subject. I decided not to be the expert on the baby. My husband did take paternity leave and I went back to work for a while. He got comfortable dealing with the baby in HIS way without me being the "expert." While my love was never really terribly interested in the baby, he spent time with him and developed his own unmother mediated relationship with him. Our children are between 5 and ten, and my husband has a great relationship with them...he finds them more interesting now, but he's always had a relationship with them that didnot involve me being there making sure he did everything "right" with the babies as they grew. And yes, the firstborn wore some tops backwards on days Dad was in charge, but hey, small price to pay if Dad's involved, right.

[Jane]

I'd agree with all written so far (gosh, how terribly in mutual agreement we all seem to be on this one!)(considering how we differ elsewhere... :) ) - but would add another point to the 'let the Dad have his time/specific task' recommendation.

Yes, indeed, do do that, but DO NOT complain that he does it 'differently' from you. This crops up time and time again in parenting - one parent has different ways, different standards, different rules. Sometiems, yes, they can be significant ones (eg, should they have to earn their own pocket money, should they be allowed off on their own at age x, etc), but a lot of the time they are pretty neutral, and there is no point arguing about them. Each partner should accept the other one's 'way' ... but 'in turn' - eg, if Dad is 'on duty' at a particular time, then 'his rules operate', an vice versa. This is good not just for marital harmony, but also so (a) the children grow up realising that differnt people ahve different rules, which applies all through life, and (b) more importantly, they dont' get to play one parent off against the other on the old 'but Mum said I could' basis...

[Tamsin]

I 100% agree with giving your husband the quality time to spend with the baby, don't give too many instructions and let him find his own way. When I went back to work, my husband had to step up to getting our son up and dressed every morning and taking him to nursery. Either that or it wasn't a feasible option for me to go back to work. Though he openly admits he would never have chosen to do this himself, he now adores the quality time they spend together every day. It has been a challenge but one that has been so rewarding.

It is interesting that before we have kids we have no idea how we or our partners will react, will they be hands on, will your opinions differ on how to bring up the child etc. You only find out when it is too late, and just have to make the best of it.

[tiredmum]

I agree with Gipsy. It is great if poss for dad to have some time alone with his son - My husband gained a lot of confidence in looking after our daughters when I went back to work - we both went part time so they always had one of us. Obviously this approach wouldn't suit everyone, but it might be helpful for him to take his son to the park/zoo on a saturday or sunday morning so you get a lie-in, and so he can spend some time alone with him.

I also agree with Jane that the dad / child bonding thing often gets better as the child gets older.

[mcshane]

I'm guessing that he's feeling pretty resentful of the whole situation - did the 'ooops' comment imply that it wasn't planned? He probably feels like something has intruded into his quality time and taken over his wife (who possibly isn't quite as desirable as she was before, with leaking milk and baby poo/sick everywhere).

He's then feeling guilty for feeling resentful, since the mother is clearly besotted, and they are married so he clearly shouldn't be thinking that way.

He's then feeling like he's not useful or in charge of the situation. Since he's clearly not the primary care giver, he's now expendable as far as the baby is concerned - the mother would cope quite fine without him, and is probably better at dealing with the baby that he is. So he's also feeling inadequate.

I've gone through all of the above to some extent, although mainly earlier on with dd2 (planned) rather than dd1 (unplanned and early in our relationship), for various reasons.

My advice to the mother? Give him a specific job and make him better at it than you are. Don't be all capable and critise how he does things with the baby - he has to build his own relationship with the child which will be quite independent of your relationship with either of them.

I suspect that, as others have commented, it will get better over time as the child becomes older, but that's no reason not to start now.

[Jane]

Quite agree! The other great thing about making sure Dad gets the baby all to himself for a day is that he actually gets to understand how totally KNACKERING it is to look after a baby 24x7. I think a huge number of husbands (and I'd definitely include mine here!) just simply have no idea how tiring it is. (mind you, they can still argue back - as does mine - that if I hadn't got the baby/toddler into bad habits it would be a lot easier to look after them)(the worst bad habit was waking at night)(I'd say men on the whole are a LOT more intolerant about sleep-deprivation than women.)(and, of course, they are also often far more 'control freaky' about babies/toddlers, and can't bear the mess/chaos/uncontrolledness of them)

[Gipsy]

One thing I would add is this - have a day a week or a month that is Dad's time. Hubs has son one day during the week, on his own. This has been incredible for him as it has meant that he's been able to find his own way as a parent, and has been able to find a way to bond with son. None of us as new parents really know what to do with this new creature in our lives. But for the mum, figuring that out happens a lot quicker because we're usually the primary caregiver and spend more time with the baby. Having their own time will give your husband that chance too.

So perhaps on Saturday mornings or Sunday afternoons, or for a day, you go out, or you kick the two of them out of the house.

The other thing we have done that I have found invaluable is that on weekends, I have one morning off and hubs has a morning off. It means that you both get at least one lie-in a week, and really that makes a huge difference for me.

[Jane]

Don't panic. Babies ARE very boring to a lot of men (just as they are very boring to many women who don't have them or don't want them, or had them so long ago they are way beyond them!).

But then the boring babies become toddlers, and start interacting with Dad, and then Dad starts getting a big kick out of them...speaking of which, before long their sons have discovered football and wheels, and off they go on their merry male-bonding way.

Also, if you have a puppy, then soon the baby-toddler will start interacting with the puppy, and so that will get Dad involved too.

In the meantime, just be glad he's changing nappies etc (even if he thinks he wants a reward for doing so!) (I think there should be stickers for new dads saying things like 'I changed my baby's nappy today' and 'I got up in the night three times'...with big smiley faces on them to make them feel accomplished and virtuous.)

Also, make him sleep in the spare room - it's always my number one advice to all new parents. Keep mum with the baby, and let dad shove off to get a good nights sleep, and it also means mum can read during the midnight feeds. And co-sleep with the baby of course.

The key thing is - do WHATEVER it takes to 'get through it' with maximum sanity (aka maximum sleep).