Why the glass ceiling is bad for everyone

Fewer women are reaching the boardroom these days, and that's really bad for business. It's time to quit asking women to act like men, says the author of a new book that addresses the problem. "Instead of trying to “fix” women, it’s time to fix the system. Otherwise, an army of female middle managers are going to network and take assertive-ness courses, and end up talking to themselves while nothing changes. It’s time to reframe the debate,” she says.

Check it out.

Comments

[Gipsy]

SM I don't think it is hormones or anythign like that. I don't know what it is. I know that I'd never have done it if my mentor hadn't told me too, and even now it is something I find really hard to do.

There is also the meeting invisibility thing to overcome too. You go into a meeting, say what you think the solution is, either get ignored or have it shot down. Then about half an hour later, one of the men will propose the same thing, and everyone congratulates him on cracking it. Argh. I learnt the hard way that you have to keep it to yourself for at least half the meeting, and let everyone else present contribute first, then at just the right moment hit them with the solution. It seems like a monumental waste of time to me - if I was in a meeting and someone proposed a good solution within 30 seconds I'd be thrilled to have it completed so soon. But no, it seems that there is an unwritten, silent, protocol to these things.

[supermother]

You need to spend 20% of your time trumpeting your triumphs. So what made me always do that and some other women not? Hormones? Common sense? Innate self publicist mind frame? It needs to be a fairly constant process too so you're always going on about how good you are even if it's fairly subtle. It's quite fun. Much more fun than doing your nails or moaning about work.

[Jane]

If you're a good boss, you notice, but you also expect your employee to notice, that is, you expect your employee to know what their worth is and what they're good at, and to show it.
***

I disagree - if you are good boss you understand that ability and confidence are not always co-present. A good boss will encourage an able staff member who lacks confidence in their own abilities. It's drawing talent out that makes a good boss, not merely steering it upwards! (not that I've ever had a good boss in that respect, and I think they are very very thin on the ground - most are just careering egomaniacs climbing over other people or just ignoring them.)

[Gipsy]

I don't think that it makes any difference whether you're a man or a woman boss. You're either a good boss who notices, or a bad boss who doesn't. If you're a good boss, you notice, but you also expect your employee to notice, that is, you expect your employee to know what their worth is and what they're good at, and to show it.

[Jane]

They feel that their boss should see that they've done this, but in fact bosses never do.
***

Our of curiosity, do people here think that a female boss will notice your efforts more? (I've only had one, and the first thing she did when she arrived was start her succession planning, immediately grooming up the person she'd selected as her successor, in order to free herself of the work she was being paid to do at the time, so she could prepare and plan for her next promotion! I must say it was an object lesson in self-advancement - AND it did the person she'd selected to suceed her a good turn too. She was up and out of our department so fast her desk wasn't even warm!)

[Gipsy]

This is an interesting article

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article3340952.ece

[Gipsy]

"Second problem is that some women are not good at pushing themselves,"

This I think is the biggest barrier to women progressing in the workplace. It is simply that women just don't see this, they don't know to do it. When I was starting out I had an excellent mentor, a guy, who told me this right from the start. And it has stood me in good stead. Many is the time when I've talked to women, and listened to them complain that they hadn't made it to the next step when they've put in a lot of hard work. They feel that their boss should see that they've done this, but in fact bosses never do. You have to be willing to do a bit of self promotion. All guys do this, and they learn to do this when they're very young. Listen to boys talking - it can be an eye opener. There's a fine line between talking yourself up and boasting, and boys practice this from a young age with lots of crude boasting that is clearly untrue like 'I can swim a hundred lengths'. Girl's are far too sensible :) But this attribute can work against us as well.

[supermother]

It's certainly awkward dealing with maternity leave. We had two nannies get pregnant and have babies. One came back to work with the baby and then had a second one and came back with that one and then had a third but that was the end them. The second left when she went on maternity leave. It is very very complicated to deal with - I think if you have under 50 employees you should not as an employer have to deal with a single bit of it - the state if it think women should get these rights should do all the calculations and all the payments (and I know we could claim back the money but not the time and that's a huge thin if you're a small employer) AND we had a nanny SMP tax investigation - all was in order but that must have taken me about 15 hours to deal with too. Not easy when you've 5 children, work full time and you employ a nanny who's on maternity leave so you need to find a replacement too. So you can see the attraction of the manny....

[wonderbra]

Sir Alan Sugar says today it's easier not to employ women. Says it all, really.....

[Baggofbones]

There's no-one better than me at mummying, or at having a tippy house. Does that count?

[supermother]

Glad to hear it. I thought 4 out of 5 women earned less than their husband, most women marry men slightly older and most women marry up. If it is 50/50 I am very pleased because I think that's a core reason for inequality.

Second problem is that some women are not good at pushing themselves, saying I am the best, there is no one better than me in the UK at XYZ as I have occasionally said from time to time and believe is the case in some areas.

May be it's all to do with testosterone levels. Perhaps we need that in the water rather than flouride and the hormones from contraceptive pills.

[Gipsy]

I don't disagree Mum of Two. I just think that the minority is growing and getting a lot bigger than people might realise. I am quite hopeful that things will change, simply because we (as in our generation) hasn't got to the top yet. I would say that things are way better than they were twenty years ago when we were all first starting out our careers. Who knows how wonderful we could have made things twenty years from now when we get to the end of our careers?

[j]

IMHO the key thing is the route back to paid work later on.
16 years in to my pareting, my frields have gone tow ways. There is a group, to which I belong, who took a good deal of time off (7 years for me) or no time off, but who had the contacts, qualifications and networks to go back to a senior and wellpaid job. We now earn more than most- whether that includes our men does depent a bit on whom we married.

group two also took time off but no more than I did. What distinguishes them I think is their initial choice of career- something a bit vague and unstructured which you might think would be great for mothers. But in fact, it hasnt been that great cos there has been no easy way back in, and people are unsure what they are getting as there is no qualification to point to.

So to me the absolutely key duty of employers is to provide imaginative ways back to paid work, after a career break of whatever duration someone chooses.

[mumoftwo]

Hi Gipsy, the article makes the same point as you (lots of women have degrees, 59% of all graduates) but then goes on to say that that fails to translate into 50/50 or anything like it, in terms of women recruited to top companies or to director level and asks why? Obviously this trickle effect of high numbers of female graduates is just stopping, and the obvious stopping place is children.

Amongst most of my friends, only myself and one other earn around the same/slightly more than the partner and the rest all work part-time or in several cases, not at all. All the studies show women are taking lower-paid jobs, part-time jobs, or jobs beneath their qualification to do that children/work juggle, and they are not, by and large, the type of jobs which can form the main wage of a family or even a decent half of a two-part time job family. I think we may be still in the minority!

[Gipsy]

Goodness me SM, what circles do you move in? I am the higher earner in my relationship, and of my female friends, over half are the higher earners. I just assumed that this was the case for most women these days, as increasingly we're filling up the universities. Of my circle of friends, most of the women have university degrees, but few of the men do. I think this is a far better situation than what we had in the past. Men are now free to pursue the career they want to, not the one that pays them the most money so they can support a family. And women aren't tied financially to their husband.

It also means that with my friends, the men spend a lot more time with their family than their dad's ever did. One is a stay at home dad, with many of the other father's arranging workloads so that they get to spend part of the week at home with the child (as is the case with my other half). With many of the women able to do the same, it means that the children aren't in fulltime childcare, they have more childcare options (not have to go for a nanny but can choose from a nursery or childminder as well), and they don't have to have a drop in their income or give up their careers.

I know that glass ceiling is still there, but I don't think that it will be a case of it being smashed, rather it will simply melt away. In other words, our generation (late thirties and early forties) and younger simply won't have the same expectations. By the time we've reached retirement, the younger workforce will have the expectation that they should have the choice, and the right, to spend more time with family and still have a good, decent career. And by the time they reach retirement age, the current working practices will simply be unthinkable, and you'll just naturally see a progression to a 50-50 split in the boardroom.

Or maybe I'm just an optimist :)

[Jane]

I have to agree that if you are the lower wage earner in a couple, then you are more likely to feel 'expendable' rather than 'entitled'.

But I think it's deeper than this, and goes to the heart of, not woman's insecurity, but, rather, man's cockiness!

[supermother]

Yes, women need that sense of entitlement too. I am very good. I deserve what I have. I think some of us have it to be honest but many don't.

A core reason for all this is women marrying up - even in a gender neutral marriage if one is to stop work it will be the lower earner. I don't see women marrying men who earn less very often. They still home in on the higher earner, the better suit, the better car, the colleague 2 or 3 years older. That's a key reason.

[Emily]

Bagofbones - I couldn't have said it better myself!

[Jane]

the older men have a sense of entitlement.
--

Good old jobs for the boys. What you say rings very true.

The most interesting thing I have noticed where I work is that the older men have a sense of entitlement. They don't work the hardest, they don't come up with the new ideas or the new money (that's done by the female layer below), and don't spend an awful lot of time impressing their younger colleagues (only older visiting men). Women would feel guilty in this situation and try to prove why they were earning their top-end money. That sense of entitlement is something women just don't have and stops women breaking through the glass ceiling and sitting back to admire their spoils!

[Jane]

"Instead of trying to “fix” women, it’s time to fix the system.

I agree 200%!

[Melissaria]

I've added the book to my wish list for now; I've been complaining for ages that it does no good for women to keep trying to score equalizers with men when it's clearly the rules of the entire game that need looking at...so far I haven't come up with anything sensible, so I'd be interested to see if these two have.

[Baggofbones]

I can't face the whole article (don't have the time, amidst all my domestic duties), but I've got as far as the statistic about the proportion of female employees decreasing over the last two years. All I can think is that women (mothers) have decided that there are more interesting and worthwhile things to do with their time and talents than scale the corporate ladder!
I personally prefer ironing to corporate ladders, and I detest ironing.