Damn the teachers' strike

My daughter has only just gone back to school after the Easter holidays (Monday) and she's already off again today because of the teacher's strike, along with a million other kids in 91 local authorities as the National Union of Teachers calls a strike about its below-inflation pay settlement. How rude of everyone concerned to call the strike on a Thursday - they could have done it on a Friday so everyone could have had a long weekend? Or done it in a couple of weeks time when we've all had time to recover a bit longer from the holidays?

As it is, after two weeks of arranging play dates and trying to make sure she had something jolly to do while I was at work and she was on holiday - a feat of logistical planning any manager would be proud of, I was back on the case on Tuesday trying to find someone for her to play with this afternoon.

What about a mum's strike? It's bad enough having the holidays spread all over the place (Faith schools incredibly early, private schools just off forever and the rest of the State schools off for four days over Easter and then back and then off for two weeks - it's been the Hokey Cokey of holidays and hell for parents).  And now a teacher's strike! They've hardly been at school recently!

I know that most of the teachers do a great job - you'd have to pay me danger money to spend all day at the mercy of 30 boisterous five year olds, so I've some sympathy on the money angle. But a strike?

What with Gordon doing U-turns about tax, teachers strikes, power cuts (our electricity has been down twice in the last two weeks, for four hours at a time, always just as I'm making dinner), the credit crunch and soaring prices it's feeling just like the 1970s. Grrrrrrrrr

Read Caitlin Moran's blog about the teacher's strike

Comments

[Marc]

You should support the teachers in their 'reasonable' request re: pay. They do just about, if not 'the most important job in the world', guiding our future.

[Marc]

You should support the teachers in their 'reasonable' request re: pay. They do just about, if not 'the most important job in the world', guiding our future.

[Lazy Mummy]

Lucy - But you should hear my husband on the subject of my laziness. :) Of course the name was a bit tongue-in-cheek; I think when I first posted on AM, I was reading lots of stuff from people like Supermother and I just couldn't take any of it quite that seriously. :) (Not that SM takes it all that seriously either, actually).

There is a serious point to my online moniker though - I'm all about simplifying things, minimising hassle, outsourcing what I can to other people. Life's too short to be a) a perfectionist and b) bogged down in tedious rubbish (whether that's at work or at home). I'd rather be hanging out with my daughter or reading a good book or typing on AM than that! :)

[Deirdre]

Lucy
I would agree with the people who say that money does start to matter when you're in your thirties. But by then you can think about diversifying, maybe changing your direction, as LM said.
My advice would be the same as Jane2, to at least start off by doing what you most want. And I would add to that, get the very best possible qualification you can (which you appear to be doing, anyway), because that will always facilitate any career choices you make.
What I think, having been in work for over 30 years, and observed many colleagues over that time, is that a salary of £25,000 sustained over 15 years is worth more than a salary of £45,000 which ceases after two or three, whether because of redundancy, burn-out, or other negative reasons, and is then followed by nothing, or salaries of under £20,000 for dead-end jobs.

[Lucy]

Lazy Mummy - I'm not laughing at any job choice out there; I was being amused at the seeming difference between your rather modest nickname and the energetic persona you put across. I just reckon I'm not cut out for some of the jobs mentioned - could be wrong, and maybe in ten years time I'll have changed my mind. As to money - yes, sure. But (and I'm saying this ever so tentatively, because I'm really not sure) maybe it'll turn out ok? I live in hope, for spontaneous education reform, among other things.

[Lazy Mummy]

One final comment on this & then I'll shut up (thinking about office politics in private sector vs public sector vs academia). I'm reminded of a phrase an old boss used: "Every job has bs; you need to choose the bs you can cope with".

[Lazy Mummy]

Lucy -

Well, you may laugh at management consultant but I was only pulling a couple of random examples out of a hat, not trying to influence you one way or another.

Seriously though, whoever said money does start to matter when you hit your mid 30s onwards was right. If you have children & want to give them good opportunities in life (which as an educated person you will), you start to realise that money has a role (eg, you might decide the best schools where you live are fee-paying).

Perhaps a better example would have been corporate training. I know lots of corporate trainers (I did it myself for a year or two). Many of them have a background in or love for teaching, but often find there's more flexibility to run their own show than in an academic environment. Of course, that doesn't provide the research side of things, but the hours, pay, benefits, perks are often better than in traditional teaching settings, and the students are usually more willing & interested too. If it's the teaching stuff you're interested in, you should at least consider it.

And please don't think there's only intellectual stimulation in the academic world because that's a misconception.

[Lisa]

No problem Lucy. It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, it was a rant at the world in general as investment banking and bankers in general keep on being slagged off in the press.

I totally agree with the teachers strike. they're not paid enough, there's too much bureaucracy and they're not given enough authority or respect to deal with difficult children and/or parents. But I can see why people do it. One day I had a call from my mom who works with the weakest children, new immigrants and whatnot. She asked "what did you do today?" "Oh, the usual got screamed at by a managing director, and you?" "I helped a small child who has learning difficulties learn to read. He was so excited, he memorised a poem and kept repeating it to me".

[Lucy]

Cheers for comments, esp. the Career Development Fellowship (sounds interesting).

Lisa - I didn't mean to malign investment banking, only to say it wasn't for me. I certainly don't think everyone who works there is greedy! I just have a vague and probably quite inaccurate image of what you call 'fast and demanding' that's heavy on suits, stress, and attention to numbers that I couldn't hack (my ability to reliably transcribe numbers is rather less than that of an eight-year-old child). But then, I find the idea of standing on a stage terrifying - doesn't mean I'm not impressed when Patrick Stewart does it.

[Lisa]

Can I just briefly stand up for the much-maligned world of investment banking. Yes, there are lots of greedy people, unprincipled people and so on. However, that is only a small fraction of the story. Half of the workers in the bank are support staff (legal, compliance, finance, operations etc.) and some of us actually do worthy jobs. I work in Compliance, and today I have managed to stop two proposed transactions involving states with, uh, interesting human rights records. It's also incredibly interesting, fast-paced and exciting, but it does take a certain type of personality to survive (and I agree, not everyone finds reading about structured finance or stock market trends endlessly fascinating).

[j]

Lucy, keep an eye out for a Career Development Fellowship. Oxford does them, and I am sure there are similar schemes elsewhere. They are a special 3-year job where you get remission from all admin and some of your teaching, so you can build up your research and teaching experience. You get an academic mentor as well and they send you on the CETL academic practice course.
Or the trad version, the Junior Research fellowship- but that has no teaching at all , usually. There's more out there for scientists than for arts people cos the Wellcome trust and Royal Society run a lot of similar schemes.

your supervisor ought to be able to guide you, or ask for an academic mentor now.

[Baggofbones]

KM: I am very glad to hear that academic freedom does exist in some universities (can't quite see how, in the target-driven culture, but it is nice to think it still exists somewhere). We didn't even have the freedom to voice dissenting opinions ("You will be sat on very hard if you don't toe the party line", was my HoD's warning to me in advance of meetings - those were his precise words).

Lucy: I don't think there are any universities/departments that are "better" than others from a quality of life/work point of view. It seems to be a case of finding a happy match between your particular personality/interests and those of a Department. As KM says, such a match is still possible, but it seems to be a case of pot-luck. I had expected the Dept I worked in to be a great place, but it turned out not to be so. My predecessor had left after having been bullied - a fact I found impossible to believe when I started, but could imagine only too well when I left.

As for burning the midnight oil: wait until you have children!!!! The midnight oil might seem less appealing then... as might the fact that you could get a part-time job in the private sector for the same pay as you'd get as a university teacher (though, presumably, not the same potential - I stress potential! - for intellectual satisfaction).

It's also worth bearing in mind that even students who have an array of A-grades at A-level might not be quite as well educated as they appear on paper - though that's another story...

[mumoftwo]

I know quite a few academics; some high-achiever types who love the long hours writing, deadlines, travelling to conferences around the world etc, but others that don't and feel bogged down teaching quite dozy students in large numbers (tends to be my younger friends). However, like all public servants these days, they have to meet a lot of what seems to them unreachable and unfathomable targets. The extent to which this gets them down seems to vary between places. I can never forget seeing that wonderful neurosurgeon on TV about a month ago who took the B and Q drills over to Eastern Europe, working for charity for nothing, a truly amazingly skilled person, having to type down his 'activities' into the NHS computer each week (and finding you could only put in one activity per session, when he was multi-tasking all the time). He revealed he hardly operates in the UK now as he spends all his time in meetings and doing admin. I find this profoundly sad.

[Kim]

Interesting to read everybody's thoughts on this. I originally wanted to be a university lecturer, but at the time I got my Ph.D. (late 80s) it was hugely competitive and there just weren't many jobs in my field, so I went and did something else.

I've often regretted it, because research is what I love best. But I've also seen friends (one friend in particular) who became academics and who have done nothing but work their socks off for years and years. It seems to be an endless round of one stressful thing after another, with the need to draw in students, deal with budget cuts and publish, publish, publish to get a good RAE score.

I did do some part-time teaching at a new university a few years ago, and was shocked at how poorly resourced it was, and at how little the students knew, as well as the extent to which we were expected to spoon-feed students.

About pay, too - Lucy, low pay might not matter much now but it starts to matter when you hit 35 or 40 and see all your friends in the private sector pulling ahead and buying nice houses and affording stuff you can't afford.

Having said that, I agree it's important to do what you want to do, and if you enjoy it, then go for it. You can also do something else if it doesn't work out!

[Kieransmum]

Can I just say, in defence of academic life, that I know many young academics who adore their work, feel well-supported and although they work hard do have academic freedom and wouldn't want to be doing anything else?

[Lucy]

Lol - thanks Jane2, you make me laugh. I think I'll steer clear of investment banking! Good luck to both your daughters.

[Lucy]

Thanks, J. I think I may have been somewhat sheltered in my experience of uni as a student, too. We were taught in pairs, or alone, some of the time, and classes only occasionally exceeded 10-12, in which issues like personal interests, dyslexia, troubles with sight, etc., were cope-able with, which was a wonderful freedom. I also think uni work is just very well suited to dyslexics a lot of the time - a dissertation, which can be spell-checked and proof-read and so on, and later the opportunities for vivas, just seems tailor-made. Whereas I could see myself getting frustrated over A-level coursework - when I was at school and the work was supposed to be 'all your own', some people who were considered a bit dim were encouraged to leave in a few 'authentic'-looking spelling mistakes!
Is there some kind of split between types of university, or types of lectureship, that I don't know about, btw? Or do they just vary individually?
Thanks for writing ... a little forewarning is always good!

[Jane2]

Lucy
If you were my daughter, (and I have a daughter exactly your age, 23, who graduated with a First from a top-ten university in 2006), I would tell you what I told her; do exactly what you most want to do.
In her case, this was "using her Maths", but categorically NOT being a teacher. She's now training in a professional field and working full-time as well, which is very hard slog indeed, but she is so far enjoying it.
If you love the basic principle of what you are doing, the tedious bits, of which there are many in all careers including full-time motherhood, become bearable.
My other daughter, 20, also a Maths student, told me recently that what she was looking for in her career was "constant intellectual stimulation". She has ruled out academia, as she thinks it would be "boring".
If you love books and reading, go for it.
If you love only money, try investment banking (ghastly, from what I've heard and only suitable for the ultra-competitive alpha-plus).

[j]

lucy I think BoB and LM have an important point where they warn you to be aware of the differences between unis. I work somewhere where people are largely protected from the stresses that BoB describes, but they absolutely do exists and she is not exaggerating at all, from what I hear.

That said, there is also the life of fascinating research and collaboration with colleagues in other fields (aka grant proposals :)) is not always the road to ruin. BoB has obviously had a lousy time, I would hope that it is not true of our young researchers here.

Dyslexia: because of the post-16 code of practice on HE Unis are much more together about it than schools. It helps that Uk students get funding, though it is sill very hard if you are an overseas student. Dyslexic staff generally cope well because they have a lot of control over the timing and speed of their own reading. Students email their essays which can then be read back by speech recognition software, for instance. A lot depends on the group size you would have to teach.

[Lucy]

Thanks, Lazy Mummy. Management consulting?! Maybe I'm a lazier non-mummy than you ... I seem to find writing or doing mentor-teaching is the only thing that doesn't feel like work. Thanks for the advice (and it's nice to hear about other medievalists out there).

I do like this blog ...

[Lazy Mummy]

Oh, Ignoble.

Yes, hilarious awards, truly brilliant. Awarded to researchers whose research "makes you laugh, then think". In practice, the sort of stuff that makes you say "and my taxes are indirectly funding this? why?". My personal faves are the peace prize for the british military for pretending to fire cannons & shouting "BANG" during training exercises (to save on ammo) and the researchers who calculated exactly how long you can dunk biscuits in tea before they collapse.

You can read all about them here:

www.improbable.com. Enjoy!

[Lazy Mummy]

Lucy -

Re: the advantage of teaching at a university meaning you get to do the research you want...

Well, sometimes, but university-level research is generally governed by funding, often in the form or research grants. You have to write grant applications that are appealing to funding bodies in order to get funded for the research you want. Even in fields awash with $$$ (biotech, comp sci, pharmaceuticals), you're only going to get research funding if your field of interest is appealing to the folks with the cash (generally harder in the arts).

I read lit (specialising in medieval) at uni, loved it but decided early on (pre-finals) that academia was not the life for me & wouldn't pay the bills effectively either. Most of my peers ended up in business or public sector (none in their degree subject). I'm not trying to put you off one way or another, but there are lots of interesting jobs, fields, business sectors outside academia, many of which offer some of what might be appealing in academia, but with (usually) better pay & benefits. Unless you're truly in love with your subject & can't imagine doing anything else, you ought to at least investigate some other fields; you never know, you might suddenly realise that management consulting or non-profit development is the field for you!

[Lucy]

Well, Baggofbones, thanks for putting the time in to reply. Even if the reply is a bit daunting! I guess I should have thought before posting the bit you've quoted. The original point was that teaching in schools seems to put people off even before they sign up for the PGCE, or during training, and this is not a good thing. By comparison, although you didn't enjoy it, you did get as far as doing the actual teaching at university. As regards me, I meant to suggest that, if I were ever to teach, it would not be in a school setting, because I've been so thoroughly put off that. I may not teach at university either (for one thing, I've no idea whether I'll get through to PhD/beyond), but it's not something I've ruled out. Does that make sense?

I will say that part of my axe-to-grind against teaching in schools is that there is so little wiggle room to adapt teaching skills to pupils, whereas at university (in my experience, and I grant I'm only at all familiar with attitudes at three or four unis) there's far more freedom to adapt your style to your students, and exams once a year (if that) is a lot less that my local secondary organises and marks ...

I appreciate the warning about possible horrors - I do hope, though it's not very nice for you, that your experience wasn't quite the inevitable version. I do like burning the midnight oil, and 20 grand + was always recommended to us as riches, so maybe I'll be ok.

Thanks,

Lucy.

[Baggofbones]

"I'm bright, and I enjoy teaching, but trust me, I'll do it at university level if I do it at all, because I cannot face the pressures of a stifling national curriculum, incessant meaningless exams, poor salary, and a lot of paperwork."

Lucy - I shall preface my comments by saying that I am not an old cynic (quite the reverse!), and my experience is not necessarily representative of all experiences of university teaching. But your description of "a stifling national curriculum, incessant meaningless exams, poor salary, and a lot of paperwork" is university teaching in a nutshell (or was for me). I went into it six years ago with great dreams of Making A Difference, Enthusing Students About Literature (mediaeval/modern languages at a top-rated university - I don't want to give away my real identity by being more specific than that), Having Interesting Discussions etc, etc, etc - and was shocked and horrified by the reality of it (and am still shocked and horrified when I think of the gap between my ideas of it and what it was in reality). True: there's no National Curriculum. However, there is in effect a Departmental Curriculum, and that is based on what will bring money into the Department, and what is deemed politically acceptable (two of my proposed modules were knocked back because they encouraging students to think for themselves, rather than peddling received wisdoms). Research is judged by quantity, not quality - and believe me, you really don't feel like doing research after a 100-hr working week (most of that 100 hours having been spent on paperwork, fatuous meetings about paperwork, and writing up the results of fatuous meetings about paperwork). Research is mostly done at midnight, and it is not enough to pursue your own passions: what matters is how many boxes it ticks in the RAE. One could expect to get a couple of weeks of research done in the summer vacation, but the rest of the vacation (which gets shorter by the year!) is taken up with re-sits, Admissions, and further fatuous meetings about ... well, I never understood why we had to have Departmental meetings throughout the vacations. We were expected to be available and visible in the Department (email was not adequate) in case of customer (sorry, student) enquiries. As for the exams: they were rendered thoroughly meaningless by the fact that the students were given the questions in advance, and were provided with sample answers (funding depends on students achieving at least a 2.1 degree). I managed a grand total of two years there, one of them on maternity leave.

When I left, my annual salary was 27K. To my mind, this was fine in itself - it was more money than I've ever had before or since - but for the level of stress and unhappiness, and for the hideous work-load, it was pretty low.

As I say, others will have had a great experience of university teaching. Two of my (single, male) colleagues thought it was fantastic; they loved burning the midnight oil and competing with one another to be top dog. If you do go into it, Lucy, I can only hope you have a happier experience of it than I did!

Sorry for the long post - I am evidently in need of therapy to recover from the traumatic experience!

The only good thing to be said for it - for me - was that it was very easy to make the decision to leave after having the children!!

[Lucy]

Dierdre - thanks, I have now. Eek!

[Deirdre]

Lucy
Have you read BofB's description of university teaching, on the Delia Smith posts?

[Lucy]

I dunno, Helena. It's OE and Medieval English literature, which can always be justified with the dubious (and annoying) 'cultural worth' label, but I tend to balk at that. As to mentally challenging - well, it is for me! I find it hard to judge what's a waste of time and what isn't - my partner spent two years of his degree learning to identify trees and fill in planning application forms at land management college, and while I think a degree in that is a total waste of taxpayers' money better spent on apprenticeships, I'm sure he'll end up earning more than I do! I'll admit a lot of my degree was done purely for the fun I had doing it, but I would hope it all eventually promotes love of language and books and all the things that stop us becoming automatons, maybe?

(Oh, yes, and the other reason to prefer universities to schools is that schools are mercilessly horrible places for dyslexics while universities may not be)

[Lucy]

Thanks, Kieransmum, I feel re-enthused again! I'm unemployed atm, going back to do my masters next October. After I graduated last June I thought about teaching and got put off it pretty swiftly - and that's the problem, isn't it? Not to say I'd have been any good, but I know I'd rather have my kids taught by a graduate from a good university, teaching the subject they studied there, than have them taught/minded by a teaching assistant. Up here near Newcastle, several secondary schools seem to run on the assumption that teaching assistants (who aren't necessarily qualified beyond 5A-C passes at GCSE, though lots are) can be used as fill-in teachers. Not really very good.

Btw, what subject do you/ did you teach? Any tips?

[helena]

Lucy - my understanding of the IgNoble awards is that they are prizes handed out to people doing the most pointless and fatuous research projects, usually on tax payers' money. You know, the kind that researches why children who are beaten end up head cases, that sort of rubbish (ie, entirely unnecessary to research it....). Or the utterly trivial, like whether people eat blue sweets more than red ones, etc.

Please tell me that despite not curing cancer, your research is actually something that might be either useful to know or intellectually challenging.

[Kieransmum]

Oh, I shouldn't be so dismissive, it's not that bad, I enjoyed it mainly. More than BoB did by all accounts, anyway!
Are you mid-Ph.D then, Lucy? Or mid-undergrad stuff?

[Lucy]

Helena, what's Ignoble research? I feel a bit ignoble myself, because my cabbage-patch aint exactly cure for cancer stuff. Do you (or does anyone else) think universities will actually be pushed to get better? Or will they just become more tiresomely regulated, like schools?

[helena]

It's interesting to compare the primary/secondary education system with the tertiary one, now that fees have arrived. More and more we read about students wanting their value for money from their college/uni, which they feel that they are not getting, especially when lecturers are, so I read, primarily paid for research, not for teaching.

One upside of uni fees looks like going to be to create a decent market in higher level education, which will actively create better universities, because the ones with cr*p teaching just won't get students, who will go to unis where their money pays for decent teaching.

And anything that helps to stop research of the Ignoble variety (probably most sociology and pyschology...???) would be a real saving of scarce resources.

[Lucy]

Lol - no, Kieransmum, I haven't! But don't put me off yet, please ... I need to keep the dream that it's manageable to spur me on through the work at the moment. I guess I should have said that, while teaching at university obviously has its problems, there's the upside (ie, you get to do the research you wanted) as well as all the downsides. Also, when my teachers were striking over pay at uni, we were entirely behind them!

[Kieransmum]

"I'll do it at university level if I do it at all, because I cannot face the pressures of a stifling national curriculum, incessant meaningless exams, poor salary, and a lot of paperwork. "

So...you've not had a lot of experience of university teaching yet then?

[Lucy]

On the subject of teachers' (ok with that, Sally?) hours/ perks versus those of, say, trainee solictors: yes, many professions involve longer hours and less pay than teaching does. If you're a trainee solicitor, I would imagine your salary in fifteen years time will be hugely higher than that of your teacher friends? But more importantly, teachers need to be paid more in order to attract more bright, talented and dedicated people. It is wasteful of time and energy to staff schools with people who cannot teach well, and yet, sadly, it is increasingly the case that those who choose to teach are neither those who care about their subject, nor those who want to teach children. They are (often) those for whom the salary and perks offered look like a good bet. I'm bright, and I enjoy teaching, but trust me, I'll do it at university level if I do it at all, because I cannot face the pressures of a stifling national curriculum, incessant meaningless exams, poor salary, and a lot of paperwork. I'd rather be a lawyer than a primary school teacher. I don't know if the strike is the best way to do it, teaching must be made a more attractive proposition. Otherwise, it won't be one day sacrificed to supplementing the education system, it'll be the whole 18 years while we pick up on the failures of teaching at home.

[Delilah]

Teachers are on strike because that is traditionally how workers force fair wages from a powerful employer. What the fossils in the NUT seem to have failed to notice is that this powerful employer is central government, which doesn't lose anything if teachers don't work. The teacher's strike has no direct impact on the functioning of government and the government's funding (from the taxpayer) will remain secure until some halcyon day when taxpayers actually have some influence over policy or government spending decisions.

Perhaps parents should start refusing to pay taxes, along the lines of the Poll Tax protests. That would be rather more effective.

If schools were run AND FUNDED regionally by locally-elected bodies and regional taxation, not only would you have a functioning market to set competitive salaries nationwide, you'd probably find local governments prioritising happy teachers and happy parents - after all, good education attracts taxpayers and local government revenue. But a change of that nature is too radical for the government, much less the NUT or AWT, to contemplate.

Don't expect this strike to accomplish anything except the start of a continuing trend. I'd go so far as to predict that the next academic year will be a nightmare of more strikes and teacher shortages, and if one can possibly afford it now is the time to go private (or consider emigration).

[Annamac]

Oh SM, sometimes you are like a stuck record (sorry, retro reference).

[Kim]

Supermother - we've already had this conversation. The answer is: because some of them are actually pretty good.

[supermother]

Why would an alpha mummy use a state school?

[helena]

"I agree entirely with the other posts who suggest that it is inconvenience and not concern that drives many of theseaccusations"

You said it!

[Teacher of the Apocalypse]

I am a Business Studies teacher who prior to entering the profession worked in marketing for a FTSE 100 business with a high-stress reputation (and deservedly so). I left the job, not because of the pressure, but I simply found office life dull and restricting. Neither because of that classic 'those who can't teach'I am not to modest to admit that I was very good at my job and left with an open invitation to go back if I didn't like my new career path. In fact many teachers make the transition very successfully into other careers as they have confidence and presentation skills that are found in few other professions, standing in front of an intimidating bunch is what we do every day, the simple truth is that most teachers don't want to do anything else because they are the type of people that enjoy such a social role and develping others. Teachers that don't care, don't last - it's as simple as that.

I am a member of the NUT but I did not strike today and voted against the action, it goes against my
capitalist values but I do support better pay for all public sector workers. It is wrong and against the principles of a free market to restrict the natural growth of pay in line with inflation.

I feel saddened that what I knew would happen has happened in terms of a public backlash. The public, the people whose children we care for on a daily basis take the opportunity to slate teachers. To moan about teachers seems programmed into the human psyche like a fear of spiders.

As I have already stated I did not strike today, yet I have had to fend off many an accuastion or pointed remark. Many from the students themselves who clearly are repeating
what they have heard from their parents (students are never normally so clued up with current affairs). So based on many of the comments and criticisms that I have heard today I would like to counter a few of these arguments as to why teachers don't deserve to keep their pay at the same level in real terms:

1) Teachers don't have to work a full day: Believe it or not lessons don't plan themselves,nor do books self mark (and marking is a bit more in depth these days a simple tick or 'good' is no longer sufficient), reports don't magically appear ready under my pillow of a morning and students don't sit happily alone in detentions. There are Parent eve's several times a year along with other events not to mention the number of 'unpaid' time that staff voluntarily give to extra-curricular activities. It is not unusual for me to work until midnight (I am marking coursework at the moment and should not be posting this!!) I haven't even mentioned phone calls to parents, my role as a tutor, doing break duties or professional development or meetings. On top of all that I am also a head of department which brings a shed load of other rsponsibilities that I shall not bore you with. The time spent in the class room is only half the job - TEACHERS DO NOT FINISH AT 15:10

2) Teachers get loads of holidays so they shouldn't be paid as much as private sector workers: anybody who kows a dedicated teacher will tell you that teachers are a shell of their normal character by the end of each term and need the time away from the classroom. It is also true that many teachers will spend several days of their holidays in work, I don't remember too many people doing that when I was in in industry. It is not possible to manage the work load of a teacher without marking during the holidays. So yes it is nice in terms of giving the freedom to manage our workload but twelve weeks holiday a year it is not.

3)Inset days: not entirely related to this subject but another complaint that was raised in the article above. Teachers do not get Inset days off, we still have to go into school. INSET means in service training, and that is exactly what we do. It is a chance for us to stay up to date with the latest changes to education and pedagogical developments. A friend of my mother even once suggested that inset days should be held during the teachers' holidays - I couldn't relate to her argument for that one at all.

I work longer hours now then I ever had to in industry and the workload is greater but perhaps not the pressure, deadlines tend not to be quite so short in teaching and you can take your work home fairly easily (whih probably is the cause of many of our problems).

Anyway, I have made my point in a longwinded and tiresome way but I had to get that off my chest so that hopefully I can concentrate on my marking again. But before I go I would just like to point out one more point, sven of the children in my tutor group have taken time off to go on holiday during term time, I wonder how many of these parents are the same ones who are moaning about the strike now. I agree entirely with the other posts who suggest that it is inconvenience and not concern that drives many of theseaccusations. TTFN

[EG]

I bet the same people who are fussing about the teachers' strike are the same people who would go for the throat of any teacher who upset their precious little 'angel'.

Lots of people have issues with teachers - not all teachers are socialists, Ceris. Money isn't everything:

Teachers are not motivated by money and are not asking for much.

Better pay would recognise the fact that WE NEED TEACHERS, and it's the recognition they want because that would give them more status - which they need in the classroom.

Children are getting more and more difficult - dyslexia, dyspraxia, ADHD, social and emotional problems, broken homes, absent working parent(s). It's no one's fault - it's supply and demand.

[helena]

"And anyway, there is no money left to give you"

Yes, the governments's given it all to Northern Rock, a bank run by incompetant idiots (but very very rich ones.)

[helena]

By definition, it's impossible for public sector workers to go on strike without hurting their 'customers' rather than their bosses, like ordinary workers can. The government shamelessly exploits the conscience of PS workers in that way.

I think when teachers go on strike, the DoE civil servants should have to go in and teach lessons. Plus, of course, the Education Secretary.

Sadly, of course, strike action by teachers won't get them anything. Only mass resignations can force this government to treat them better - eg, by making it easier for them to deal with trouble makers, which they can scarcely do at the moment.

[ceris]

I agree wholeheartedly with Rachel. You socialists are destroying our country. And anyway, there is no money left to give you!

[Kim]

Er, that should have been "that goes", not "that cooks"!

[Kim]

For some reason, I keep thinking of that Peter Cook monologue that cooks, "I'd rather have been a judge than a miner."

I'd rather be a solicitor than a teacher. I've seen too many burnt-out teachers. And not so many burnt-out solicitors.

[Teacher Anne]

I once went on strike - as a mother. My teenage son was at an awkward stage and driving me crazy. So I went on strike - no cooking, laundry, driving around etc until his attitude improved. It took a few days and he was begging me to be a proper mom again.

[Rachel]

Jonathon - "Either, they are not bright enough to get a degree and a PGCE or they haven't got the high level of organisational and inter-personal skills needed to do the job successfully" - I have all of these skills. The world would be in an unsual state if all people with degrees, high levels or organisation and inter-personal skills were teachers. The reason I am not a teacher is that I believe my organisational, interpersonal and degree skills to be suited better to being a lawyer than a teacher, although I did consider it. Pay was never a reason why I did not follow that route.

Kim - "they have difficult, aggressive children to deal with who may abuse them, shout at them and occasionally physically attack them. Bet you don't get that very often, do you, Rachel?" No, you're right I do not have children doing this but I do have (both in my current and previous job) difficult, demanding, aggressive clients who shout, some of whom only have a poor grasp of English.

I have never said that teachers have an easy job, only that I do not think it is *particularly* or *uniquely* difficult in comparison to other jobs, that they receive a decent income and benefits and there are a lot of people struggling with rising rents and council taxes. I think they broadly speaking do a good job for fair pay.

[Baggofbones]

"Don't you just give a huge sigh of relief when your child starts school and you don't have to pay huge nursery/ childminder/nanny fees out of your own money?"

Ha! Having children cost me nothing (other than time and patience) until they started school...

[Kim]

Jonathan, I think you're being slightly belligerent, but broadly I agree. It's ludicrous for people to say you can't compare jobs - of course you can. I think jobs like teaching, social work, nursing and so on where you have to deal day in, day out with other human beings are inherently demanding. Particularly when, as is often the case for teachers, they have difficult, aggressive children to deal with who may abuse them, shout at them and occasionally physically attack them. Bet you don't get that very often, do you, Rachel?

[Sophie]

As an NQT myself who has been on strike today I think you should see past the fact that you have been put out for one day ( effectively only 6 and a half hours really!). I can hardly afford my rent and council tax and the problem for me is much more long term than one day where i might have to arrange another 'play date' for my kids. That's if I could actually afford to do anything of the sort. Stop moaning and get behind the teachers that do such a good job educating YOUR children!

[Jonathan]

To P-sector worker: I *do* know the answer to your question. Teachers *are* leaving the profession. Out of 10 graduates who are currently taking a Post-Graduate Certificate in Education this academic year, only 5 (on current trends) will still be teaching in 5 years time. This could be for a number of reasons but the one I've heard so many times is the impossibility of getting a mortgage in London - even with help from the key workers scheme. In fact, for younger teachers I believe pay (in relation to property prices) is *the* main reason for them leaving the profession

But you didn't answer my question, did you? So, I'll help you out. I think there are several reasons why those who bemoan the great conditions of service that teachers get are not doing the job themselves. Either, they are not bright enough to get a degree and a PGCE or they haven't got the high level of organisational and inter-personal skills needed to do the job successfully. Why do *you* think these people are not teachers? Why do you think that 50% of all those currently undertaking teacher-training courses will not be teachers in five years from now? It is a serious issue - especially if, like me, you have teenage children. Are you a teacher? Do you think that teachers' conditions of service are really that good? And if you think they are, why are *you* not doing the job?

[P.Sector-Worker]

To Jonathan: You ask - "if you think that teachers' conditions of service are so good, why are you not doing the job yourself?", perhaps a more pertinent question would be: if teachers don't like the pay and conditions why don't they go out and get another job? I think many of us know the answer to that one.

[Jonathan]

It is inevitable that an issue like this will give rise to comments of both a sympathetic and unsympathetic nature towards teachers - whether those teachers were on strike today or not. I am a teacher and I was *not* on strike today because I do not belong to the NUT - though my colleagues who did strike have my total support. I have just one question for those who feel that teachers do not deserve the pay rise asked for because they don't have to work any harder than employees in other occupations: if you think that teachers' conditions of service are so good, why are you not doing the job yourself?

[Rachel]

KM, I take your point to an exent. But, my friend wishes to fast track into management where she would be earning a similiar average salary to me as a solicitor. I presume she could also 'specialise' by teaching a niche market i.e. those wishing to be teachers or similiar and increase her salary further.

[Kieransmum]

Rachel, you're training to be a solicitor, so average earnings in your profession are.....£50.699.

Average gross annual earnings for a teacher: £31,798

I don't think you're being entirely fair to your friend. Your earnings are likely to rise in the long term far higher than hers, you also have the option of going into particularly highly paid specialities like commercial law which she doesn't.

[Peterson]

I always thought that a parents first responsibility was to their children, (kids are baby goats). When you have children you should realise that this is an imperfect world and be prepared to take parental responsiblities seriously, even if that means personal inconvenience at times.

[Rachel]

E - my family on my mother's side are/were all teachers and one or two have got out for the reasons you mention. Lack of pay was interestingly never one of them. In fact I think they all were/are pretty happy with their pay. No-one encouraged me to be a teacher.

I agree you cannot really compare jobs which is why I find it frustrating that teachers frequently moan about theirs being harder than everyone elses.

Also a lot of jobs are target driven to far harsher levels than teachers (although not government set necessarily)and involve pointless hoop jumping which wastes peoples time and prevents them from getting on with their 'actual' work.

[E, Paris]

Rachel - I suppose it's just another one of those subjects where you can argue forever because at the end of the day everyone works hard (hence why it's called work and not play!) and everyone would like more money for doing the same work! (or preferably less work and more money!)

Comparing two different jobs is tricky too as the working conditions/responsibilities/perks/disadvantages etc can never really be compared like for like. All I know is my mum is very happy that I didn't want to go into teaching because she says the soul has been taken out of it and there's far too much focus on targets which are too generalised for children and waste a lot of teachers' time.

[Rachel]

E, I do think people moan too much about teachers but equally I also think that teachers moan too much about how hard their lot is when they get better benefits than most.

My teacher friend and I worked out we do average the same hours (mine in office over whole years, hers in classroom and at home both termtime and hols) yet she gets paid £8,000 more than me, has a pension, is entitled to key worker housing and received a grant to pay for her PGCE (I had to self fund my equivalent postgraduate qualfication).

Sally - I agree.

[fla]

teachers should be paid better.they give us profit

[E, Paris]

Rachel - I know what you mean, I'm one of those workers. I just mean that everyone focuses on holidays and "short" working hours of teachers. Never the fact that their timetable is fixed, that they can't spread their holidays over the year, that when they get fed up with something they can't take a five minute break outside to cool down/smoke/drink coffee - they have to be present 100% of the time with the children, oh and I could go on for ages (having seen it first hand). I just object to this blog moaning about teachers and how inconvenient they make life - as though they choose when to have Easter holidays etc.

(PS my mum is neither striking nor supporting strikes but for information they offered but were not allowed to cover classes for striking teachers)

[Sally Wilkins]

All right, I'll say it again, louder this time. I am shocked that a Times journalist doesn't know the proper use of apostrophes and hasn't changed it in the several hours since I pointed it out. Teachers' strike, plural, unless you are actually suggesting that the strike is being done by one solitary teacher.

[Rachel]

"teachers can't take off a day when they feel like it like other workers can"

what makes you think other workers can just take a day off when they feel like it? (unless you mean workers can take their holiday allocation over the whole year) we still have to be present every day outside those holiday dates which amounts to far more days than being present in term time.

Also, some workers I know are busy 8am to 8pm without a lunch break. Iknow teachers work hard, but so do most people.

[E, Paris]

"It drives me crazy when our pre-school can only offer appointments with the key worker between 9-12am, not even 8.30 or during lunch"

I can understand the frustration, but my mum is a teacher and most days works 8am til 4pm without any breaks at all. Yep, somedays she can't even go to the toilet! For those who do enjoy a lunch break, is it really fair to make them give it up to speak to parents? Considering they can't make this time up at other moments during the day as they are looking after your children.

Everyone focuses on the long holidays, but never thinks that teachers can't take off a day when they feel like it like other workers can. They have to be present during term time. Full stop. And therefore their holidays automatically cost more as they have to take them in school holidays whether or not they have children. If they do have children and their child is ill they can't take a days holiday.

Fair enough, teaching is a choice but they do a very important job and they care so much about YOUR children.

[Delilah]

shh...don't tell anyone - but you ARE back in the 70's:

strikes
power cuts
inflation
trash piling up in the streets
oil crisis
food crisis
environmental crisis
colonial unrest in the middle east
colonial unrest in Africa
gaudy fashions in clothes and makeup

BUT sadly no Captain Beefheart, free love, Playboy mansions or seemingly harmless mind-altering substances to get us through to the next conservative backlash.

[mumoftwo]

Yes, I do agree that it is the education that is important and that's why I support the teachers striking to achieve better pay which does equal status in our materialistic society. Personally, I don't think that one day off school will actually affect academic outcomes that much which is why I'm not up in arms about it. I might feel differently if I had older children about to take exams, although I would hope that one day off wouldn't scupper them really given they can revise in it.

However, I also feel frustrated sometimes that the teachers I know (including my family) do seem to find it difficult to understand that most workers work a different and longer schedule (9-5 minimum, total presenteeism required) with less holiday days (in terms of being present, I'm not arguing about what they do out of contact hours) and if you want the maximum parental support and involvement, it's best to work with this. It drives me crazy when our pre-school can only offer appointments with the key worker between 9-12am, not even 8.30 or during lunch, as if it is normal for most workers to take a whole morning off work to have a ten minute chat about their child. Non-contact days the same (usually in the middle of the week), plus those mysterious half days at the end of term that count as whole days as if everyone can go home at 2pm. This amounts to several days holiday a year to cover time which, in my opinion, should be covered by teachers even within the reduced terms and 9-3.15 contact hours.

Perhaps as the demands in terms of targets have got more rigid, so has the mentality of 'well, I will just do what I'm contracted to do then' for which I do hold the government primarily responsible.

[doggerel]

Be honest. Don't you just give a huge sigh of relief when your child starts school and you don't have to pay huge nursery/ childminder/nanny fees out of your own money?
If the complaints were more about the loss and damage to the childrens' education, they would be taken more seriously. This is the term when thousands of kids take important public exams, A-levels and GCSE's yet all we have heard is mums moaning about the inconvenience to themselves.

[J]

a bit harsh, Caitlin, I think that there are some things to be said about teachers' pay.

I took my younger kids to work with me. Doesnt hurt the office to be reminded that life goes on. The children coloured in and ate a packed lunch during my high level finance meeting and then got lucky with some birthday cake down the corridor. Back home now working onlien. Good for me to be reminded why I left my city career for this one where I can do this kind of thing and people arent fussed.

[mumoftwo]

What do you mean, free child-care? Teachers get paid from public taxes, i.e. out of my own salary and everyone elses. I don't think one day out of education is going to irreparably damage a child's achievements, but it does mean that a million families have to take unexpected days off/take children to work/find alternative childcare at short notice which may cost them money. I don't mind if you believe in what you are doing, indeed that's the whole point of the strike, to draw attention to a particular issue, but just be honest that it does impact other people who, yes, do pay you via their taxes to look after their children and teach them something during school terms.

[Sally Wilkins]

"Teacher's" strike? Just one teacher then?

[Rachel]

teachers work hard

but so does everyone else.

i get paid £8,000 a year less than my friend who is a teacher. I am a trainee solicitor. I work just as long hours as her but I don't benefit from as much leave. Granted I don't have to spend all day with teenagers but she is able to work at home from 4pm onwards.

[Kim]

All very well, Bagofbones, but private schools have much longer holidays than state ones, don't they? Thus making it tougher for the working parent.

Doggerel - it's not just journalists. I think everyone who works finds it a nuisance when teachers go on strike, or when there's an Inset day, or when the school is closed for elections. If you're a working parent, then yes, you do rely on schools to be looking after your children during the working day.

None of the teachers at my daughter's school is on strike, so we're unaffected. Teachers could strengthen their position significantly by all belonging to the same union.

[doggerel]

Does no-one notice that the journalists' main whinge is that their free child-care isn't available when the teachers are on strike? How do you think that makes teachers feel?

[helena]

I'm sure any teacher in the country would willingly swap jobs with a journalist on a national paper. Be grateful you've got such a jammy job yourself, instead of whinging that 'the servants' are daring to ask for more money. My, one day they might even earn as much as you! And then civilisation would crash to an end....

[Baggofbones]

Go private, Caitlin. Problem solved!

We do power cuts here, too. And a right pain they are!