Bushra, you can never win the game of "there are no scary stories" "oh yes there are" "oh no there arent".
What you can win is the game of "yes there is a risk in childcare: here is how I assess and manage that risk"
But if they think Junior is horribly scarred by not having enough family attention, they could always have him/her to play for a morning while you go to the spa...
Posted by: J | 6 May 2008 22:22:41
Yes, it was hellish Bushra. I can remember sitting crying my eyes out with him on my lap, not wanting to let him go. And that first week...ugh. He took a few days to settle down.
But that has meant I've treasured the maternity time with my second a lot more, not needing to put myself through that.
But of course, it is only I who have traumatic memories! He was absolutely one hundred and fifty percent fine!
Posted by: kieransmum | 6 May 2008 21:43:01
oh tell me about it with the scary stories. i have a sister in law who kept bringing them up in a bid to dissuade me but having seen the nursery in action with the boy's feeding times, and the playtime before i come pick him up i do believe i have made the right choice with his nursery. the staff are fantastic and are much more helpful than my health visitor.
KM: wow that must have been quite hard for you, but agreed, i don't think it has had any negative effect on him!
Posted by: bushra | 6 May 2008 09:50:41
Bushra, I had to start childcare with my son at 10 weeks old because I was studying. And he was premature so really was 8 weeks corrected age.
Now you have met him, I hope you feel comfortable agreeing with me that if there was terrible damage to his pysche, it doesn't really show!
Posted by: kieransmum | 5 May 2008 19:22:27
It is heart stopping just how many horrible nursery stories there seem to be, particularly in newspapers. But just remember that every time a new report comes out showing that nursery daycare is responsible for XYZ, to look behind the statistics. You'll invariably find that it is bad nurseries that cause the problems, not nurseries in general.
When we were looking at childcare options, my husband wasn't really interested in any other options. I was particularly attracted to nurseries because we'd had such a hard time getting pregnant I knew that there was a good chance my son would be an only child, and this way he gets socialised early on with lots of kids.
I started my search by calling all nurseries within walking distance of our house (this was important to me as I don't believe in unnecessary car trips, I use public transport whereever possible). We actually have a nursery right opposite our house. They were ruled out straight away, without even a visit, because they had said they required a phone call before hand if you wanted to pick up your child before the usual time. All nurseries that said that were immediately crossed off. The other reason was that I've seen the woman who runs it coming drunk out of the pub. Now, I know that we all do this, and coming out of your local tipsy isn't a sign of a defective character. But still, it is hard to leave your child with someone who you've seen drunk.
The baby room of our current nursery sold us straight away. We went in there and all the staff were lying on the floor covered in happy, relaxed looking babies. The atmosphere was just wonderful. The nursery had a door code. It was OK for parents to drop by at any time, and never did we do so to find the baby room in any other state other than one of happy relaxed babies with adults on the floor with them (unless they were changing babies or getting bottles).
My son never cried when I left him at nursery, and he never fretted. He was always happy to go.
Things do change as they get older, naturally. But by and large, son is always keen to get going in the mornings. I know that he's not well, even if he doesn't have any symptoms at that point, when he doesn't want to go to nursery, as that's the only time he gets clingy and wants to stay with mummy.
The nursery isn't perfect. There are a few staff members I've not been entirely happy with. But they've been in the minority. And it isn't that they're bad people, just lacking in energy, which I think is necessary for working with kids.
There are half a dozen kids at the nursery that son has been with since he was a baby. They're very close and know each other really well. I asked son what we should buy for X's birthday present, and he said 'castle', so we got a book with castles in it. Turns out the child has an obsession with castles.
Most of the carers have been there since son started as well. And a couple have moved up with him as he's moved through various rooms (the staff rotate a bit, so they get experience with all age groups). That continuity has been, I think, part of why son feels so secure and happy there.
All in, it has been a very positive experience for us. I hope it is the same for you - and I'm sure it will be.
Posted by: Gipsy | 4 May 2008 23:11:08
well, it's only been a week for my boy at his nursery, and sure he's eight and half months but thursday morning he couldn't wait to get there, and on friday i found him giving the nursery nurses big smiles because he was happy to see them. so a good sign for now. i'm going to have take extra care that childcare for my son doesn't go wrong, because i have a whole extended family pretty much willing for it to go wrong.
Posted by: bushra | 4 May 2008 22:28:51
With older kids you can pretty much tell what and how they feel about people. But with babies, it is so much harder. Also, you can do all the background checks you like, and you can listen to your own gut feelings - and still get things wrong. So maybe for the first few days it can be nice to have the reassurance (or not in the case of the woman whose nanny is in that video!).
Quite a horrible video that one.
Posted by: Gipsy | 4 May 2008 20:38:30
Oh, thank you Bushra, that's a great example. Yes, now I've seen that maybe it's not such a terrible idea....
Posted by: kieransmum | 4 May 2008 12:08:24
here's a US story of a parent installing a nanny cam
.
Posted by: bushra | 2 May 2008 14:41:45
Ah yes, MOT, I hadn't thought of the advertising angle.
Posted by: Kieransmum | 30 Apr 2008 13:38:48
Totally agree, KM, I can read a blog post in ten seconds flat but waiting for this to load, then listening to it out loud seemed very ponderous, I actually gave up shortly into the video...My guess is that it is done to please the advertisers (I certainly had an ad before it started) which can't be done so effectively with a written piece. Given that we are not paying for Alphamummy but derive a lot of enjoyment out of it, I kind of think it is a fair deal to have to watch the odd car ad along the way.
Posted by: mumoftwo | 30 Apr 2008 12:39:05
If you know your children well enough it is obvious, from how they behave around someone, how they are treated by that person.
No-one is perfect all the time, but if your nanny is generally doing a great job your children will look forward to seeing her in the morning and will confidently let you go out the door leaving them in her care.
The danger of a nanny cam, I imagine, is that you can become obsessed by the small details e.g. the occaisional raised voice, rather than focussing on the big picture i.e. are your children happy, confident and well adjusted?
Posted by: Ad-Mum | 30 Apr 2008 11:46:10
I d rather be poor than leave my lil girl with someone i could potentially mistrust! but i certainly wldnt resort to a secret camera if i did hire a nanny as this would affect their relationship an make the environment too unnatural. You shld concentrate on knowing your child well enough to read signs of discomfort if these should appear rather than wasting money on cams.
Posted by: Celia | 29 Apr 2008 23:28:50
I think this post really suggests more than anything how much harder it is to provide concise insightful commentary in front of a camera than on the page.
I like JH's stuff in general, but I do feel here it was too thin, lost the plot, anecdotal and no real detail so we're all left swimming around aimlessly trying to define what it is we're talking about.
Moan moan moan.
Posted by: Kieransmum | 29 Apr 2008 21:09:54
If this is a real issue, rather than a set-up designed to provoke arguments, then: if mothers really do spend their days at work spying on the nanny, why don't they ditch the nanny and spend that time looking after the children?
(I have to say that I am good friends with a couple of nannies, and they do a far better job than many parents would - myself included. I console myself with the thought that they must retain their sanity by having a life during evenings and weekends...!)
Posted by: Baggofbones | 29 Apr 2008 19:15:21
It is far more effective to know a lot of nannies in your area from your time as a FTM. They will give you all the gossip...
Posted by: j | 29 Apr 2008 12:16:38
Mark, I think you make a good point about only using a nanny cam if you're investigating a change for the worse with your children. Sarah, you make a good point too that if you're concerned about your nanny to that extent, maybe you should have a different one or not have one at all.
I've been told that footage from nanny cams is the only kind that can be used against employees in a court of law. If that's true, it's pretty surprising.
Posted by: Jennifer | 29 Apr 2008 11:42:12
Mark, I think you make a good point about only using a nanny cam if you're investigating a change for the worse with your children. Sarah, you make a good point too that if you're concerned about your nanny to that extent, maybe you should have a different one or not have one at all.
I've been told that footage from nanny cams is the only kind that can be used against employees in a court of law. If that's true, it's pretty surprising.
Posted by: Jennifer | 29 Apr 2008 11:41:30
JH, installing a secret camera can't destroy trust between the nanny and yourself; she doesn't know it's there! (unless it gets found). If you want to install one upfront, to see what your children are doing all day, then unless you can CCTV the entire house, any bad nanny would simply make sure they acted nice on the camera and save the shouting for the bathroom (surely these parents wouldn't film in there...)
Anyway, the whole premise is false. I don't know anyone with a nannycam or who would secretly spy on any childcarers. I don't even know anyone with a nanny! Most of my friends either stay home and look after their own children (I have one who got rid of her nanny and looks after three under three herself as she didn't like having a stranger in the house), or they use childminders part or full-time.
I would never install a camera to spy on a nanny as I don't expect nannies to be superhumanly better at parenting than I am, and there are a few things I'd rather not have captured on video when I parent myself ('this is mummy exploding because X has cut her hair with a pair of scissors for the fourth week in a row...') I can't imagine going to work that worried about the quality of childcare, I just wouldn't go.
Posted by: mumoftwo | 29 Apr 2008 10:52:38
I don't have a problem with parents using nanny-cams ONLY if it is done when they feel there is a serious reason to install one. If the parents are noticing a sudden change in behavior (i.e. aggressive, distance, etc.) then it might be a good idea to look at all options as to why this is happening including using a nanny-cam.
Would it be better if the parents were up-front with their nanny letting them know that they install and use cameras? Where I work (albeit not anything related to child care) there are cameras everywhere and we all know they exist. It would be hard to catch someone doing something wrong though if they know they are being watched.
Posted by: Mark @ NowParenting | 29 Apr 2008 05:05:13
I've never come across anyone spying on their nanny. Is this an invented issue?
Posted by: Baggofbones | 28 Apr 2008 22:24:38
Surely if you feel the need to do this, it's a sign that something is wrong and you do not trust the nanny to take proper care of your child, or you are not happy being away from your baby. So it might be better to address why you feel that way, rather than resorting to 'spying' like this.
Posted by: Sarah | 28 Apr 2008 21:41:15
I'm not a fan of nannycams. Here in the US, spying on your employees is of course completely legal (I think) - as is requiring drug tests & credit/criminal record checks for most companies (even for jobs where you wouldn't think these things are relevant).
I've hired two nannies, and been 100% confident in their abilities & enthusiasm and not needed to spy on them ever (even when the child was an infant). I agree with Helena that if you do your due diligence (and we did run criminal record checks through the agencies, plus multiple reference checks) and if you're willing to pay properly & provide an attractive package (paid holiday, health insurance in the US, etc), then you can probably hire someone who's really good & whom you'll trust.
Posted by: Lazy Mummy | 28 Apr 2008 20:42:38
Jennifer I am not sure my old computer at home can take many more innovations like this. Couldnt you just type it next time? prettyplease?
Nannycams are a function of childcare for the very young- I think older children on the whole would tell you, though not always. but Helena is right that the main issues would happen when you wouldnt see them.
But what is this "tide of nannycams" you talk of? I've never come across a single soul who did it.
Posted by: J | 28 Apr 2008 20:18:33
You can't webcam them when they're out of the house. I can remember seeing some lump of a nanny/au pair totally ignoring the little boy she was supposed to be looking after, and sitting there texting, while he was ignored (for about half an hour). I wanted to take a photo, and send it to the mother, to show what a useless lump the girl was, but I can't believe the mother didn't know.
I suppose I think that you can tell what calibre of nanny/au pair you've got, just by talking to her and seeing her with your children when you are both around.
In principle I support the idea of nannycams, in that it's part of parental due diligence, but I can see the point that JH is making. If I were a nanny, would I want my employers filming me? Then again, there are horror stories of the 'secret videos in the nurseries' of babies with bottles tied to them, being ignored, while lumps of girls sit around discuss oral sex with each other.
I expect with nannies its like with any employee - you get what you pay for. If you want a professional person to look after your baby, pay them professional rates and treat them as professionals in their own field, child care.
Overall, though, I don't think it's a very clear cut issue.
Posted by: helena | 28 Apr 2008 18:59:30
Why would a national crisis of confidence in our OWN parenting skills make us less distrustful of a NANNY?
Don't get the point JH is trying to make.
Secretly webcamming someone without their knowledge is illegal, isn't it? Or am I wrong?
Posted by: Kieransmum | 28 Apr 2008 18:50:10