The stages of life, according to the NY Times bestsellers

  Tula Karras, a friend of Alpha Mummy who lives in New York, noticed a pattern to the lineup of most popular books in the New York Times Paperback Advice Bestseller list. The specificity of this category is intriguing in its own right (where is the "Paperbacks You Love to Read but Don't Want People to See the Cover"?). But Tula noticed that not only are the advice bestsellers helpful, the order in which they appear can serve as a kind of blueprint of modern life.

To wit (her additions in bold):

1. A NEW EARTH, by Eckhart Tolle. A spiritual teacher prescribes letting go of the ego to help end conflict and suffering.
A college-grad, freshly transplanted from the insulated “anything’s possible” campus culture to the real world of New York City, you are still idealistic enough to think that you can enact selfless change and be happy without a 5-figure monthly income.

2. THE POWER OF NOW, by Eckhart Tolle. A guide to personal growth and spiritual enlightenment.
A working youth, now a few years out of college, you realize that you can’t necessarily change the world to match your idealistic vision, but you can change yourself.

3. SKINNY BITCH, by Rory Freedman and Kim Barnouin. Vegan diet advice from the world of modeling. (Illustration from book pictured above)
The late 20s—your metabolism is slowing, you’re not making any money in your middling job, and you’re too jaded to want to change the world or to become spiritually enlightened. Better: Lose weight, court your inner bitch, and land a rich dude.

4. WHAT TO EXPECT WHEN YOU’RE EXPECTING, by Heidi Murkoff and Sharon Mazel. Advice for parents-to-be.
Early 30s, you’ve snagged your sugar daddy and his sperm has swum the swim to your egg. You’re gonna be a momma!

5. MARTHA STEWART’S COOKIES, by Martha Stewart Living Magazine. The magazine’s editors share 175 recipes and variations.
Holy ****, why did no one tell you how hard parenting is? You need the motherlode of carbs—cookies — to eat your way out of depression and bribe your toddlers.

6. GETTING THINGS DONE, by David Allen. A productivity consultant on how to keep stress at bay through personal organization and time management. You’ve come out of your cookie coma, the kids are in school, and you’re ready to get your ducks in a row, even if it’s all just an illusion.

7. THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES, by Gary Chapman. How to communicate love in a way a spouse will understand. Your baking skills? Check. Your filing system? Check. Your career? Check. Your kids? Check. Wait, what are you forgetting ... Oh yeah, you have a husband, but barely.

8. YOU CAN HEAL YOUR LIFE, by Louise L. Hay. A counselor’s prescriptions for regaining confidence through mind-body self-healing. Screw fulfillment through your family; you’re going to find it inside your third eye.

9. MAKING THE CUT, by Jillian Michaels. Fitness and diet advice from a trainer on “The Biggest Loser” on NBC. Meditation is great, except that all that sitting on your arse has made it grown exponentially. Plus, you’re turning 40 and are obsessed with looking 30 again. If those highly micromanaged, in-the-spotlight TV "losers" with 24-hour-access to personal trainers and nutritionists can do it, you can do it on your own. With a book.

10. SKINNY BITCH IN THE KITCH, by Rory Freedman and Kim Barnouin. Vegan recipes from the authors of “Skinny Bitch. Haven't we been here before? No, wait, this time you don't want to be skinny. This time you want to be healthy and save the world, starting with your dinner plate. If you happen to eat as few calories as an in-treatment anorexic and drop a stone while you're at it, well, it's all for a good cause.

Comments

[Lazy Mummy]

Agreed, Delilah.

Frankly (and this is probably going to offend people too), I'd rather see a McCain presidency than a Hillary one, even though she'd be more likely to protect abortion/right to choose rights. I disagree with many of McCain's policies (he's wrong on the war, on right to choose/right to life, hardline on many social values) but what I like & respect about him is that he's pretty consistent in his opinions & far less likely than HC to say something just to appeal to a sector of the electorate.

As for the woman issue, sure, being the first woman is a big deal to some sectors of the populace; to the people I mostly mix with, they don't judge on gender or race & couldn't care less about that. Their judgement is based more on values than on traditional gender or race "wars" (and I think the "war" word is so "boomer" - people I mostly live & work with grew up with feminism & multiculturalism & don't see these issues as black & white, or as central political issues).

[Delilah]

I've just finished reading "Dreams from my Father", a book which Obama published in 1995 about his experiences of race and identity. Speaking as someone who has also lived in Africa, Indonesia, and America with a mixed-culture (if not mixed-race) background I found it an intelligent book that approached a difficult subject with honesty and insight. If he's half as wise as the book suggests he's got my vote. There may be some answers for Helena in "The Audacity of Hope", which I think he wrote with his presidential campaign in mind (I haven't read it yet, deliberately wanted to avoid current campaign propaganda).

LazyMummy sums up everything I think about Hillary. God help us if she gets in.

[helena]

What I can't stand is politicians who canvas for votes without telling voters what they'll be doing when/if they get to power. All that Obama 'time for change' rubbish he spouts. WHAT CHANGE?? NAME SOME.

It just makes it blatantly clear that what they really want is the power - that's all. 'Vote for me because I want to be President'.

They're just as bad over here. There are big, no brainer issues that if any politician had the guts to address them the way they need to be addressed, would shoe them into power in a second. Population levels, pollution levels, education, NHS, benefit-dependency.

But they are all scared ****less from saying anything their 'policy advisers' and PR slimes go white round the gills at.

As for HC, the phrase 'deep-level corruption' comes to mind. I admire her for turning her ugly duckling dork look into something sleek and cosmetic, but that's all.She's too 'needy for power' - really off putting.

[Jane2]

Thanks for that interesting reply LM. Regarding HC, whatever her own personal merits or demerits, I feel that she is a siege tool. She's preparing the way for a future female President, but unlikely to get the prize herself.
Somewhat like the business mantra that the person who first brings a product to the market doesn't get the benefit, it's the next person who builds on the foundation who reaps the reward.
Going back to Locke and the US constitution, the present fuel and food crises are bringing forward the spectre of pre-Locke Hobbesian tendencies coming back into the political arena. Basic instincts over-riding civilised values.

[Lazy Mummy]

Jane2, agree about women & status. I don't normally get into political discussions on blogs, but since you asked...

As for Hillary, I'm not a fan. Then again, I'm not expected to be, based on my demographics: comfortably-off middle class professional, under 40. If I were American, I'd be Gen X but as I'm an immigrant (British born, bred & raised), I don't think the label applies.

Why I dislike Hillary: she's a massive hypocrite and probably quite corrupt to boot. She & Bill are just into power for the sake of power these days. She's horribly divisive: she'd rather split the vote & disillusion all the young teens & 20-somethings who've been disenfranchised than give way to Obama (who clearly still has the popular lead). And her positions on international affairs are worrying. AND I really dislike (and this is a showstopper for me) the thought of the presidency ping-ponging between two families for any more years.

I don't think Obama is a silver bullet but I like the fact that he's mixed-race, mixed-culture, Hawaiian as that reflects the US in which I live far more than Hillary's blue collar stump speeches do.

Oh - and based on Myers-Briggs profiles, Obama appeals to me more than Hillary does (there was an interesting article in Slate outlining the 3 candidates' profiles a while back).

[Jane2]

I'm a bit bored with all the posts about books we've read, it's more of a list than a debate. I'm much more interested in this discussion about happiness/ consumerism, and the hierarchy of needs.
It's always struck me that women's concerns are near the bottom of the hierarchy of needs, in all societies. Give or take the odd pair of shoes or handbag, women don't have the need for flaunting their status with Aston Martins, helicopters, tanks, guns...
Taking care of people and being grounded in the minutiae of daily life stops women from developing power complexes like those exhibited by Hitler, Stalin, Robert Mugabe.
If women ruled the world, what would it be like?
What do you ladies from across the pond think of Hillary Clinton?

[Delilah]

Actually, although Jefferson suggested the "pursuit of happiness" in substitution for "property" (not money - the importance was that only property-owners were to be allowed to vote) - the substitution seems to have been an deliberate introduction of the Greek Epicurian concept of happiness as an end it itself, the virtue of self-sufficiency, not the means to an end. Jefferson probably cribbed it from the British political philosopher John Locke (one of his intellectual heroes), who wrote that "the necessity of pursuing happiness is the foundation of liberty" - which Locke explains is because "true and solid" happiness frees us from enslavement to our desires. Quite the opposite of consumerism.
Have a look at http://hnn.us/articles/46460.html

[Jane2]

Lm, thanks for your welcoming words. This is certainly a most interesting debate. Regarding happiness, I never knew that the word as used in the US constitution meant "money".
Obviously no-one can be anything remotely like happy if they are hungry, cold, worried about the basic safety of their families... Is why we rightly feel that much of what passes for "happiness" as peddled by the consumer culture is tosh. Today's news about the world food crisis brings this home to me.

[Lazy Mummy]

Thanks, Annamac!

Agreed, J, that's awful for your friend, though also, agreed, that I hope the credit crisis is the start of a little more common sense in some areas.

[Annamac]

The hierarchy of needs was Abraham Maslow, as I recall. J, what a grim situation for your friend to be in.

[J]

LM you are right and I am taking a certain guilty pleasure in the credit crunch if it addresses that materialism. Though not very much pleasure as I have one old school friend who has always lived on a knife edge, has been unable to work recently due to the death of a child and is at real risk of bankruptcy..

[Lazy Mummy]

Back to Gipsy's comment about Americans & self-help & the right to the pursuit of happiness, embedded in the Constitution...Back when the constitution was written, what they actually meant by pursuit of happiness was "pursuit of money". Interesting and illuminating, isn't it?

Of course, when you look at the hierarchy of needs (who came up with that?) at a very basic level, material goods equal happiness (safe place to live, food, clean water, clothing) but beyond that, well, no, I don't think it really does, but so many people have been fooled into thinking otherwise. And yes, as I've posted elsewhere, I like cute shoes as much as (actually probably a lot more than) the next woman (and lots of books too) but I have noticed the push for material goods/materialism is so much more endemic and relentless here in the US than in Europe (really). I do wonder if that all stems from that individualistic, pursuit of $/happiness ethos which really is different on a very fundamental level from the more traditional collective (or class-based) ethos of much of Europe.

(I also observe that living in this culture has changed my views on many things, like $$, because when you know there's no system to fall back on, you are far more concerned with being able to provide for yourself & your family).

Jane2 - great to have you here; please stick around!

[Caylee Parson]

You missed a brilliant one in between dieting (late 20s) and babies (early 30s). The wedding!

Stacey Lewis wrote a hilarious book called 'Taking the Plunge' last year. It is based on her real wedding, which makes it all the more incredible. How she survived, I do not know - lol.

[Kieransmum]

"old clothes," yes.
"old" - no, thirteen days younger than me.
Thin - I'm not sure it would be wise to comment!
Never loses temper - well, almost never :-)

[Baggofbones]

"tall, thin, in gorgeous old tweeds, speaking in a gently thoughtful way, and never shouting."

Oh! Well, we do tall and thin with old clothes.

KM: no need to apologise, but thank you all the same. If I am happy offer opinions in public, others have a perfect right to reply, and it is always interesting to have one's beliefs challenged. You're right that I'm not very interested in the finance thing, and also right that I should probably be more interested.

So far as the children are concerned, that's another interesting one. I have (thus far) resisted the temptation to advise my daughter to marry a rich man. Our poor children don't really stand a chance of realising that people have to earn money, given that we're both at home, appearing to do very little!

As to whether my husband plays a role in our decisions regarding (eg) the children's schooling - well, there's another interesting one. He would say that he does, but I am quite adept at making him think that my ideas were his all along - so I'm not sure about that one!!

[Gipsy]

I gave up reading magazines like Marie Claire because, well sad to say it wasn't a road to Damascus moment of enlightenment but I simply grew out of their demographic. Same as stopping reading 17 or Jackie or - and I've never had a devotion to a magazine like this one - Misty. I just got past the age where they were relevant.

Even back when I knew that those magazines were all how to get a man, how to keep him when you've got him, how to get over him when he's gone, I still loved pouring over every issue. I loved the glossiness, I loved the adverts, I loved the style pages and working out what little things I could do with an impossibly small budget that would make me feel absolutely bloomin fantastic. Strange to say, but they gave me the confidence to wear and do things I wouldn't have, like this huge gigantic black floppy hat I wore everywhere one winter in 1990.

However, they also made me hugely depressed. One time in my late teens I turned a page to see Christie Brinkley in a bikini looking so jaw droppingly fantastic that I knew I would never, ever, in a million years look that good and feeling crap because of it.

On balance, I think that I'm a lot happier with my self image since I stopped reading them!

[mmmm]

I also gave up completely reading women's magazines when I was 19, which was 18 years ago, and I think I've probably saved myself a lot of unhappiness! I'm not especially puritanical about other people reading them, I know they can be enjoyed on a fluffy/guilty pleasures level without necessarily taking them to heart (though on the other hand don't underestimate the insidious effect on subconcious!) but the thing is that once you do stop reading them, if even only a few months later you glance at one in a doctor's waiting room, they just seem like something from another planet, and utterly pointless. Plus they're expensive! I grew up in a very male dominated family, not many women around, so in my teens I gorged on all the girly stuff I could possibly read just to feel part of the whole 'womanhood' but thank heavens I got out of it at such an early age. I can't even remember why now - I think I read some article where they completely overplayed their hand in terms of scaring/bossing around women and I just thought that's it, they don't get another penny from me.

[mumoftwo]

Totally agree, AnnaMac, I gave up reading women's magazines (Cosmo, Company) a long while ago for the same reason, I just don't want to be advised on how to lose five pounds before my summer holiday, learn six top tips for being assertive, before going home to attempt to unleash my inner goddess all in an afternoon. I also found that when reading them, I constantly thought how out of fashion I was; now I don't read them, I appear to be a lot more fashionable without changing anything. That's not to say I've never found a self-help book helpful, I read 'Feel the fear and do it anyway' at age 17 when I was having a typically teenage difficult time and the take-home message (everyone else is bricking it too, so you might as well get out there and have a go) was a really helpful one which I've stuck with since.

[Annamac]

In my 20s I possessed an enormous collection of self-help books. Curiously, my life seemed to take a turn for the better around the time I took all of them to a charity shop and then gave up trying to turn myself into something I wasn't.

[Gipsy]

Going back to self help books - I always thought that was a genre I wasn't at all interested in. But another blog post mentioning the Lakeland catalogue made me realise that while I don't go in for the 'I'm OK you're OK' type of books, maybe I've just substituted them with Lakeland style catalogues (an LED flashlight and a cuboard tidy = organised and prepared life). Except that those products never quite work out the way you want them to (my fault though, using cupboard tidy means re-organising cupboards means cupboard tidy is still in box waiting great and glories day where I have a stretch of time to re-organise cupboard, which I never have because my life isn't well enough organised...)

[J]

Jane2 quite right though ironically I work in a Uni so all our OHs are indeed going to be elderly academics..."tall, thin, in gorgeous old tweeds, speaking in a gently thoughtful way, and never shouting." hmmm.... not all of them :).

I was more thinking of the people who get support from all around them, all the time, by the equivalent of fluttering their lashes. The sort of girl who would have rung your OH and not only asked him to finish the decorating, but got him to go to B&Q with her and probably pay for it as well.
The kind of girl who doesnt just lean on her man, but on her colleagues as well.

BoB this is not aimed at you, I am interested in the general issue, actually as I said before I think that your set-up sounds rational. But I bet you also know some women who always seem to get looked after.

[Kieransmum]

Yes, Jane2, point taken. Re-reading my post I think you are right, I was a little overforceful! Sorry BOB, if I haven't chased you off. Mea culpa, in my defence I might point out that I wrote the post with two children both wanting my attention so didn't read it through again before posting!
Interestingly, I am expecting to find out that BOB actually lives in our street and our husbands work/worked at the same university!

[Jane2]

Going back to the White Knight thing. Apart from the lottery of whether you actually meet one, there is the lottery of what the WK is like. The point being that with power comes control: the strong man who helps also expects to be deferred to and looked up to. Now that is all very well if the WK is an elderly retired academic... you can just imagine him, tall, thin, in gorgeous old tweeds, speaking in a gently thoughtful way, and never shouting. Now just imagine your WK is a door-to-door salesman or self-employed builder. Would you want him exacting his reward for coming to your rescue?

[Jane2]

Gosh, KM, you're a bit hard on BoB. I had actually begun to think that you and BoB were one and the same person, (both academics, both SAHMs both buy-to-letters as well as backing each other up on many occasions). And taking a different pseudonym for the fun of it. I now see that this is unlikely to be true.
BoB is quite sweet, really, and all.

[Kieransmum]

Bob. So. You do the children and your husband does the accounts. Fine. But I can't believe he is as ignorant as you are.
Does he know what schools your children attend, and why you chose them? Or is that a decision you took without his knowledge?
Yet you don't discuss finances, presumably because you don't enjoy it/find it interesting.

I have to be honest, I think that is unwise. It's nothing to do with playing to your strengths and weaknesses. It's everything to do with being prepared for the worst should it happen. And you never know, just as presumably your husband has the ocassional opinion on his children's welfare, you might occasionally have something to contribute to the finances. You don't need to run the accounts, but you should be up to date with them.

Finally, how are you going to give your children financial advice? White knights are your choice, but I'd be sorry if they had to be a daughter's (or indeed, son's) only option because that's all they got from their mother in the way of financial education.

[J]

BoB what is interesting is that these other ladies are by no means unable to cope. I am sure that if they ever are left on their own for whatever reason they will be just fine. It's more that acting on that assumption as they do, they get looked after much better than the over-competent people like me.

Back to good old Mary and Martha again. When is it a good thing to let the big strong man protect us? over time I do notice that the more competent you are, the more work you are given. At work this means promotion and more money ( we hope) but at home???

Perhaps we should wear Louboutins more often and let someone else chase the toddler?

[Baggofbones]

The white knight thing is coupled with a belief that some deity will suddenly deposit several million pounds in my lap one day, just because he (note the retro sexism) likes the look of me!

The list of "men to contact in an emergency" is at the back of my mental drawer (husband, father, plumber-next-door, retired GP-across-the-road and so on...)

Regarding equality in a relationship: now that's an interesting issue in itself. I can see why a shared understanding of finances could be important to couples. But the way our marriage works is that he does the financial stuff and I do everything to do with the children's day-to-day lives (friends, feeding, homework, reading, teeth - or else they'd eat the toothpaste - which stuffed animals go where etc etc). That way, we both play to our strengths and interests, and both feel that we're making a contribution in the way that suits us best.

Funnily, the original plan was for me to work full-time and for him to look after the children. What a disaster that would have been for everyone!

Gipsy - your grandmother's story is quite something. And you are quite right that, in the event of my husband dropping dead, I could be storing up even more upset for myself. I suppose I just rely on the fact that I did do bills when I lived on my own, and it really wasn't that hard. But maybe I should try to take a bit more interest. As things stand, I'm more worried that I'll be run over by a bus and he'll be left with the children and no manual to tell him what to do with them!

[J]

spot on, KM

[Kieransmum]

I think there is definitely a difference between planning for divorce, as those who are divorced like to tell us we should, and planning for financial independence should the worst happen (partner falls under bus, is invalided off work, etc etc). Many things can go wrong apart from divorce.

I would not wish to live in ignorance of our financial affairs because that DOES make it difficult to be equal partners in a relationship, in a way that not bringing a wage cheque home does not.

[J]

my very first school report, aged 5 says "she likes to be busy and has no time for idleness" (State primary not Miss Havisham's Academy for the seriously pushy). Early 60s so no self-help books then (at least not in that part of rural England).

I think that duty and guilt are very linked which is such a shame. Maybe one of the reasons that motherhood is so addictive is that it combines duty with a bit less guilt, once you feel fairly confident about it. Spending all day making fairy costumes or whatever is non-selfish but also non-threatening.

Not wanting to plagiarise I will reference Libby Purves yet again, from when she said that mothers are officially in charge of family morale and keeping *everyone* happy which is of course impossible. Duty again.

BoB it is interesting that you have the white knight at the back of your mind, I have noticed this in a number of very successful and sexy, feisty ladies where I work. I tend to me more like Jane2's daughter, painting my own rooms, generally being far too capable for my own good and ending up doing it all.

[Gipsy]

Maybe the whole self help thing has something to do with the US constitution - the right for the pursuit of happiness. Maybe American's feel obligated to be happy or to try to be happy and it has just permeated the culture of all developed countries?

BoB - my grandmother was widowed at a youngish age, with 13 children (over half still at home then) and she was blind. I think that we all manage to do what we have to do when we need to, but I think it is also important to know as much as you can just in case. Does that make sense? I guess what I'm trying to say is that, you shouldn't plan for horrible things to happen (who wants to be that pessimistic!) but we should be prepared so that if horrible things do happen, the aftermath isn't made even worse.

[Annamac]

Aw, BoB, come on, surely you can't really mean that stuff about relying on a man to come and sort you out if you are in a fix? Do you keep a list at the back of a drawer somewhere "Men to contact in an emergency"? As someone who currently survives on far less money than you do (no chance of paying school fees) and has an older husband, I make it my business to be pretty near self-reliant - and very much in control of the family finances. I think I owe it to my children and I also want to show them how to take responsibility for themselves. My parents married late and my father was 22 years older than my mother. My mother always worked, had her own money, did her own thing and had her own friends - as well as having a very happy forty year partnership with my father. She knew exactly what was what with their joint finances, so was not left in a huge muddle when he died a couple of years ago. I certainly hope that you are more clued-up about your finances than you would have us believe.

[Jane2]

Just to clarify my earlier declaration that nearly all the mothers I know are working full-time or nearly full-time: of course, you understand from my stage of life (not covered in the book-list, as Sho pointed out), that all my friends, like me, are well over 50. Children go on being dependent into their mid-twenties these days, what with pre-uni gap year, mid-uni year abroad, post-uni gap year etc.
BoB, your life does sound quite sorted, but very unusual nowadays, I would suggest.
I do worry about my two adult daughters, what to counsel(not that they take much notice of me).
Yesterday one of them was on the phone from her flat, telling me she'd started doing some decorating in the morning, but felt too tired to continue.
The conversation went as follows:
"Let dad do it, dear, you've got enough to do working full-time and so on."
"I think I ought to do it myself."
"Dad's just dying to help you dear, why don't you let him?"
"Well, I feel that if I don't do it myself I'm a failure."
(verbatim).
Anyway, I managed to persuade her to let her father help her...So yes, BoB, you may well be onto something!

[Baggofbones]

Yes, all very interesting!

As is undoubtedly evident, many of my posts are not to be taken entirely seriously. However, it is true that I have no knowledge of our household accounts beyond the fact that we have a big mortgage and a large dose of school fees (strangely, the school fees cheque is the only one I write, so I do know how much they are! Maybe this is a deliberate policy on my husband's part: after writing the last cheque, I mended my old anorak - yes, with needle and thread and a patch - instead of buying a new one...)

As to how one lives on a relatively small income: well, if you don't have cars, holidays, new clothes, nursery costs and a bigger house, and if you don't entertain friends regularly or go out for meals, it's a bit dreary, but perfectly possible. What's funny is that we seem so upper-middle-class that people assume we have hidden millions stashed away for the proverbial rainy day. If only!

However, I should perhaps have added that we also have income from property (again, my husband deals with this) probably amounting to another 20K or so per year, much of which is eaten up by said school fees!

Now that I am forced by this blog to think about it, I suppose I have lived all my life with the desperately old-fashioned/retro (if you like) view that, should I find myself alone and in a stew, a man will come along and sort it out for me. My mother is a very clever and capable person, but there were always areas of her life (mostly anything to do with money or cars) that my father "sorted out", and I suppose this pattern runs through me rather like a stick of rock. I admit that this is probably not very helpful in the long run. Maybe I need a self-help book?

[Jane2]

This blog just gets more and more interesting.
Re self-help books, KM, I am totally with you on the idea that they are part of the consumer culture.
I believe the first popular self-help books were written by white middle-aged American males to make lots of money for themselves. In which they were successful. (Dale Carnegie, "How to win friends and influence people") etc.
Women are a new mass market to mine, as we all now have incomes and money of our own. (Except BofB, but I'll come back to that).
So, in the spirit of consmerism, i do not take these books seriously, just regard them as lightweight entertainment.
Regarding BofB, I agree with Lazymummy, in that I do feel some concern about how you will eventually cope. From biographical data you have already posted, together with your post earlier on this topic, I deduce that you must be living on £20,000 pa. How do you do that?
And that after your children have finished full-time education, you can expect £10,000 pa. Does that not scare you?
Going back to mmmm's point about hoping that her financial security will improve after getting married. Don't bank on it. (No pun intended).
Not long ago, I realised that of all the women I know under 60, the only ones working part-time or not working were they who had never married or had married late in life and never had children.
All the mothers I know with dependent children are working full-time or nearly full-time.
A surprising number are the main or sole bread-winner in the family. Many husbands seem to give up the ghost after about 48, and want to "start their own businesses" (euphemism for sitting around at home on the computer a lot, but not actually making any money).
I do truly believe that us women need to plan for a modicum of financial independence, rather than for divorce as such.

[Lazy Mummy]

KM,

Fascinating research. I recently picked up a couple of books on happiness, one's called something like "The Happiness Myth" & I can't remember the name of the other (both superceded by another more gripping read called something like "How Doctor's Think" which is truly fascinating to a layperson).

I think actually that womens' magazines preceded self-help books & the "personal fulfillment" sea-change. Womens' magazines have been around a long time - since the late Victorian era at least - and covering household management & fashion subjects at least, since then.

The duty vs. personal fulfillment thing...I think KM's right: it changed in the '60s & the boomers have a lot to answer for (having moved to a country overrun by them, I feel qualified to say that!). I'm a bit old-fashioned myself, and think the world functioned better when we all had a strong sense of duty. Of course, the counter-argument would be that no one was fulfilled & everyone except middle class white men were repressed, but I think many people are repressed still - only with more of a sense of discontent, because they're constantly being told they should be doing X,Y, Z.

OK, completely off-topic, I know, and I'm tired today, but that's my rant out the way.

Incidentally, I'm a working mother, but I also refuse to live my life assuming my marriage has a 50% likelihood of ending in divorce (and frankly, if it were going to, it would probably have done so already, looking at the things we've survived). Though, BoB, I have to ask: don't you ever worry that you don't know enough about how your finances, etc. are arranged to pick up & take over in a hurry if you need to? That would be my concern (if you're really as disconnected from it all as you claim - which I somehow doubt).

[Kieransmum]

Without any academic knowledge to back this up, I think that women have always had a prelidiction to perfectionism, guilt etc. I think that some, not all, self-help literature and women's magazine culture feeds on that and profits from it in different ways (the self-help book changes the inner, a kind of internal make-over in a way, and perhaps just as shallow).

Re: the self-fulfilment and duty issue, I think that the WOHM/SAHM debate is constantly circling around these issues. Extremists on both sides contrast the 'selfishness' of those who want to be at work, or want to be with their kids, with the 'feminism' of those who go to work for the sake of the sisterhood, or the selfless motherhood of those who stay at home. More honest and thoughtful workers/stay-at-homers tend to see the debate more in terms of personal choice, 'what makes you happy.' I've no idea why that is so but it is interesting that the moderates don't see the need to bring DUTY into the argument.

[Baggofbones]

I've just re-read, and even I don't see what I mean!

What I mean is: which came first? Did women's insecurity about whatever create a market for a certain type of book, or were these books written to make women aware of a non-existent problem that they never even knew they had until someone told them they had it?

I hope that makes more sense!

[Baggofbones]

You may consider it to be rudimentary, KM, but it's interesting to me!

Now, I think my mother would probably say that she has been happy (since getting married and having children, at any rate - her childhood certainly wasn't happy) - and as you say, that's very different from the idea of self-fulfilment peddled by self-help manuals. And does the very existence of these books make women believe that they need help with their appearance/domestic skills/mothering skills/whatever? Is the whole market based on a non-existent problem that therefore comes into being by virtue of the fact that the market exists (if you see what I mean - it's been a long day!!) Hmm...

[Kieransmum]

My research was fairly rudimentary, BoB, so I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer your question. I would personally place it for our culture as a by-product of the Sixties revolution: prior to that I think Duty superseded it. Attitudes to sex (that you had a right to it and to enjoy it, for example) being one area where a marked shift in attitudes can be traced.
The argument I made in my fairly short piece of research was that I think that self-help literature is built upon a false and consumerist sense of self which 'achieves,' ie consumes 'well-being' as a set of steps/goals towards an desirable and unattainable outcome, a perfected or vastly improved self, much the same as the consumer dream we are sold of objects bringing us happiness. So self-fulfilment is part of a consumer culture: I think it's very different from being happy. The art of happiness, now if only I could theorise that....

[Baggofbones]

Ah, his active retirement consists of having children that he never imagined he'd be having!! (And he also clears up vomit - just as well, given that it freaks me out).

KM - I'm v interested in your self-help research. When exactly did self-fulfilment become an aim? I don't think my mother, now 60, ever considered self-fulfilment as an option: first she looked after us, then looked after her own mother (who died 15 months ago, aged 94). I don't think she's ever given a thought to her "self" in any way at all...

I suppose that, for me, self-fulfilment is being able to spend 99 percent of my time looking after the children, and anything else is decoration. But the very fact that we're talking about self-fulfilment at all means that I have not escaped its clutches entirely!

[J]

BoB you may be interested to know that where I work there is a whole class of sassy and very senior women in their late 50s to late 60s who have much older husbands. They have now retired, and stay at home running food etc, while their wives finally get perfect career freedom. They are having a ball.

So- train your man for an active retirement!

ps Failed on the "rescue me from spiders and tax" thing, I do both. but OH does clear up vomit so I suppose I should count my blessings.

[Kieransmum]

Jane2

Re: divorce. I am with BagofBones. No one expects to get divorced, but I would prefer not to live my life in expectation of it happening.

Re: BoB's list. I also found it retro, but knowingly so. I like baking. But I like the company of little children more.

I did a piece of academic work once on the spirituality of self-help books. Very interesting (at least I thought so). The idea of 'self-fulfilment' being in itself quite a recent ideal.

[Kathleen Gage]

I like your blog name Alpha Mummy.

You have many interesting topics here.

I love this book A NEW EARTH, by Eckhart Tolle

I also love watching Oprah's movies at
http://www2.oprah.com/index.jhtml

Interesting site.

Best,
Kathleen Gage

[Sho]

I'm used to the kitchen bombsite - it's been going on for more than 20 years. (he's working today, I've been baking... the children are looking up a number to find a pizza delivery service. Not good for my confidence, I can tell you)

Could it be that the self-help books don't go much past 40 because we are the generation that really started writing them? I'll expect the "What to expect when you're 50" books in a couple of years

[Baggofbones]

Ah yes, my husband also does the spiders thing, as well as fetching things from the loft and cellar. Plus he does anything including mucky rubbish, pays all the bills (all our bank accounts are in joint names, but he actually reads the bills and writes the cheques - I don't even know who any of our services are supplied by), and digs holes in the garden. Feminist it may not be, but it works well for us!

[mmmm]

You're welcome Jane 2, let's keep that thread alive!

re. whoever made the true comment that at least this list is less miserable than british equivalent, do you remember Dara O'Briens brilliant but throwaway line about the paperback aisles in supermarkets being full of books called things like 'Daddy, No!'

[mmmm]

You're welcome Jane 2, let's keep that thread alive!

re. whoever made the true comment that at least this list is less miserable than british equivalent, do you remember Dara O'Briens brilliant but throwaway line about the paperback aisles in supermarkets being full of books called things like 'Daddy, No!'

[Jane2]

Ha, it is you, mmmmmmm, it is you I have to thank for recently reviving "The Husband Window", an absolutely gripping read.
Especially Delilah's list of tips, which really were inspirational. (Now I've started, I can't stop posting...my mantra of saying as little as possible seems less relevant now...I really think I have come out of the menopause..Shouldn't speak too soon, have thought that before and been brought to the ground by a blow behind the knees.... )

[mmmm]

I have always indulged in very unfeminist hope that when I get married my husband will fill in tax returns for me (as well as getting rid of spiders, fetching things down from loft etc. while all the while admiring my indepdent spirit etc. etc.) I have also systematically ruined my chances of ever being rich over the last few years by pursuing several interesting, worthy and fulfilling work/study projects, and I do wonder if my sang-froid at dismantling the small financial security I had was rooted in a subconcious (not that 'sub' if I'm really honest) belief that I'd regain security when I got married. And even that was flying in the face of my startling lack of success in getting anywhere remotely near married so far! Amazing how deep these things run. I am quite enlightened really, honest.

[Baggofbones]

True, oh Jane2!

It was in fact my husband's plan, and was carried out by him (though I chose the house!!).

The pension thing is particularly pressing in our case: being vastly older than me, he is already on a pension. Should I be widowed (now this is not pessimistic, but definitely realistic), I would continue to receive his pension so long as both children are in full-time education. After that, I would receive half of his pension, which would give me an income of about 10K pa!

(Yes, isn't this blog interesting?)

[Jane2]

BofB
Well, yes, retro is what you are and we love you for it. And yes, we shouldn't live in the expectation of failure.
But surely you are a just a teensy bit tongue in cheek?
After all, you did get a buy-to-let because you suddenly realised you didn't have any pension. Or was it hubby who thought of that idea and carried it through? (See, I really do enjoy reading this blog, although this is only my 3rd comment!)

[Baggofbones]

Jane2: retro is what I am!
I will probably be shot down for naivety, but I am not prepared to live out my marriage on the assumption that it stands a 50 percent chance of faililng. Some may see it as realistic, but I see it as pessimistic and gloomy!

[Jane2]

Sorry to disappoint you folks, I am not the original Jane. I remembered later that on my (only) previous post I noticed a Jane already posting and so put a 2 after my name. I post a fair bit on another Times blog as Jane (tout simple) so forgot when I came back here to read all your lovely fascinating conversation.
I have two daughters aged 20 and 23 (bit of poetic licence there).
BagofBones, your list is so retro!! What if you become one of the 50% of women on this site who will end up divorced?
SHO, one of my dearest friends gave me the following advice years ago (when the menopause was a cloud no bigger than a man's hand....) Re hormonal problems and work: "Say as little as possible." It's worked for me time after time.
I have other advice re menopause which has worked for me ( I have survived what you're going through, including the kitchen bomb site), if you are interested

[Jane2]

Sorry to disappoint you folks, I am not the original Jane. I remembered later that on my (only) previous post I noticed a Jane already posting and so put a 2 after my name. I post a fair bit on another Times blog as Jane (tout simple) so forgot when I came back here to read all your lovely fascinating conversation.
I have two daughters aged 20 and 23 (bit of poetic licence there).
BagofBones, your list is so retro!! What if you become one of the 50% of women on this site who will end up divorced?
SHO, one of my dearest friends gave me the following advice years ago (when the menopause was a cloud no bigger than a man's hand....) Re hormonal problems and work: "Say as little as possible." It's worked for me time after time.
I have other advice re menopause which has worked for me ( I have survived what you're going through, including the kitchen bomb site), if you are interested

[Lazy Mummy]

Yes, I think you're right. Wonder if we can get the AM web folks to contact her & invite her back (prob. not, guessing it would contravene all sorts of privacy/communications policies).

[j]

guessing it must be another Jane as I thought Jane the first has only one child and he isnt 25 yet. ??

[Sho]

Marry a Chef and pick your scenario:

1) he never cooks because he does it all day (fair enough

or

2) he cooks, using every single cooking implement you possess. And then leaves the kitchen looking like a bomb site.

Mind you, when I want a filet steak Rossini and creme brulee, I don't actually ever have to leave the house.

Cookies: Marry a chef. Never cook again.

Jane - is that our Jane? We've missed you.

[Sho]

LOL @ BoB... my husband doesn't "do" paperwork. (although, to be fair, he does bake the cookies)

I'll start on the script this afternoon.

[Baggofbones]

Does this really need a book?
Tax return: get husband/father to do it.
Bake cookies: don't. Buy them.
Terrible boss: conceive a blockbusting TV drama with him as the anti-hero, then retire on your millions.
Sew costumes: Buy them once you've sold the TV script!

[Sho]

Caroline, there are enough of us who plan to grow old disgracefully to redress the balance.

I'd like a combination of lifestyle/business books. Like: how to cope with a a terrible boss while you're in the throes of the menopause; how to do your tax return, bake cookies for a school function and sew costumes for the ballet school performance simultaneously...

[Lazy Mummy]

Well, as far as American womens' obsessions with their appearance, I think it depends where you live. Out here on the west coast, there was such a large hippy movement and there's now such a large tech/nerd culture that there's a significant section of intelligent, educated, influential professionals who are far more interested in many things other than looks - even in LA (though of course Hollywood skews some things there). Certainly I live in a city where you're not expected to have botox as soon as you turn 40, etcetcetc. Out here, the people who exercise (and Seattle is reknowned for being outdoorsy & active) do it for pleasure. Lots of skiers, bikers, hikers and most people dress down for - well - everything (even most of the PR folks dress casually for work unless they're going to be "on").

(Oh - and most American women out here work too - because they need to and want to).

(Jane - are you THE Jane who was here for so long & posted comments or a newcomer?)

[Caroline]

As an American (and living in New York City), I can assure you that most American women work outside the home because they need to (yes, there are those high-level career women who work because they want to work, but most need the $$) There are always women (esp. in NYC) who aim for high-income earning hubbies so they can be part of the stay-at-home "mommy brigade" (they're the ones on the sidewalks with strollers the size of a small SUV) and stay uber-thin and looking as perfect as can be, wearing big diamond wedding rings and sipping lattes. Many moms stay at home in other parts of the country as well, some with this mentality, others without.

But most moms who work outside the home do it because they need the 2nd income to keep up with owning a home, sending kids to school, afford a single vacation a year, etc.

All that said, American women are obsessed (or so it seems, esp. based on the number of diet books and the ongoing conversation on most talk shows and magazine articles) with being thin and looking young. It's a sad thing that no one seems to want to age gracefully anymore...

[Baggofbones]

Tax and pensions books? Not on your life. (Isn't that why we have husbands? To fill in our tax returns and sort out our pensions?)
But I wouldn't touch a diet book with the proverbial barge-pole either - or indeed any book that claimed to be able to improve my life. Give me a dead, white male European novelist any day...

[Jane]

American readers please enlighten: is SM's comment accurate or not? I was under the impression that most mothers in USA have to work, no choice.
All these books are just pleasant fantasy, anyway. That's why we love them: they take away the pain of daily reality.
I wouldn't read a book on tax or pensions for pleasure, would any other alpamummies?
Although I do wish I had known more about both twentyfive years ago, when stopped work to have first baby. I would have done a few things differently.

[Melissaria]

That's very, very funny.

I think it's a lot more promising than our own current bestseller lists, packed with every last variety of tedious misery memoir.

Mind you, I'd never bother baking cookies when the Tesco Finest ones are so good!

[supermother]

Two things re sad about that - that American women marry money and don't work (in the UK most women with under 5s work and we don't seem to be such a sexist culture of woman kept by men at breeding stage may be because most families can't afford that!).

Secondly that it's so very ageist. People who buy books are 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 and 90 + and yet we stop at 40 as if that's when people stop being people or stop buying books. Or I suppsoe we stop when we think readers (the demographic who will read in one place or other) will go up to.

Thirdly no self improvement or business books... but then I suppose most people think women are only interested in their looks and spirituality which is not true. Give me a tax or pensions or business book any day over a diet book.

[Lazy Mummy]

Brilliant - thank you Jennifer!

[Claire King]

I haven't read any of them, but this is the funniest quote I've read all month:
"Screw fulfillment through your family; you’re going to find it inside your third eye."
Thanks. And yes, cookie book sounds about right.

[holly]

Thank you for the good laugh.... now send me the cookie book I need the carbs and the bribery goods!

[holly]

Thank you for the good laugh.... now send me the cookie book I need the carbs and the bribery goods!