Have children? Yeah, but what am I going to get out of it?

I remember very clearly what I thought I was going to get out of motherhood. I was banking on two things: one, that it was somehow going to "complete me" as a woman, and two, that it was also - and I never really examined the practical mechanics of this - going to give me enough time to write a novel. I think I'd read an interview with JK Rowling, and envisioned the child sleeping in a crib under the desk whilst I bashed out some fabulous cross between the two best books ever (Riders by Jilly Cooper, and The Railway Children.)

Well, hahahahahaha, obviously. Hahahaha. Having a child doesn't "complete you as a woman". As the minx-goddess Sarah Silverman said, "Today I learned that everyone has hole in their heart, but that you can’t fill it with a kid - because they’ll stomp on it and stretch it and make it impossible to fill in the future."

And as for the novel - well, I'm sure you can guess. As I discovered in the first few weeks of motherhood, having a newborn is a very special era in your life, when you have so little time that you often have to split having a poo between two separate days - summoned from the toilet by hysterical, red-faced screaming from what appears to be a semi-malignant otter in a pink towelling suit, who genuinely quite hates you.

But you know what? I reckon I have got a lot out of my becoming a mother. Probably more than my kids have, who are downstairs at the moment watching Tracy Beaker on CBBC, eating dry cream crackers they've scavenged out of the kitchen, whilst I write this in bed. Indeed, I reckon I've got so much out of it, I could make a list:

1) Learning that everything is "a phase". Not just biting, or a fear of Daleks, but socio-political movements, anger about the Euro, bird-flu, Alanis Morrissette. They all come, and they all go. There's not point in getting terribly worked up about them. All you need to do is hold calm in the centre.

2) Often, you don't need to do anything at all. Raising kids is, in many ways, like being sent to interview a fabulous, blingy r'n'b star. They don't really want you to interact with them very much, or ask them any questions. You've just been sent there to witness how fabulous they are, and occasionally go "Wow, you came from the projects. That must have been tough. You're amazing." Substitute "You came from the projects" with "You had to do a spelling test", and that's pretty much all kids want from you, 80% of the time.

3) Really getting a handle on the fact I'm going to die. I was never really that ambitious before I had children, because I thought I had approximately six million years left to sit around smoking marijuana, watching daytime TV and keeping a scrapbook of Richard Madeley's best sayings. But now I've made a child who's nearly four feet tall, I am very aware of the passing of time. I am going to die relatively soon. I need to get on with things. I've got my hustle on. Simillarly, I've...

4) Developed a work ethic. You never really know how much you can cram into a day until you've got kids. You also never know how many things you can do simultaneously until you've got kids. I can now easily make the tea, over-see reading aloud, keep on eye on a playdate, book a holiday, worm a cat, hold a conversation with my husband about someone we hate, and write a feature, all at the same time. All mums can. We never even mention it. And working until 2am just isn't a big issue any more. Let's face it - it's much, much easier than looking after a toddler. Working until 2am is a blessed relief, compared to attending a birthday party at ClownTown on the North Circular Road. Everything become very relative.

5) Lost my fear. I could never watch violent or scary movies before I had kids. My imagination was feral, and I once had a panic attack after my sister merely described to me the plot to The Blair Witch Project. After a three-day posterior labour, however, I came out of that hospital nails. I watched Gladiator when Dora was six days old, and didn't bat an eyelid as decapitated heads went flying through the sky. "Yes," I thought. "That was a bit like the Second Stage."

6) Made me more socially adept. I never really liked talking to strangers before. Indeed, if my husband invited his friends round, then went into the kitchen to make a cup of tea, I'd run off to the toilet until he came back. I was very awkward and self-conscious. Seven years of nurseries, play-dates, school-trips, school-gates gossip and sundry playground-hanging have changed all that. Firstly, it became embarrassing that my two year old was more socially adept than I was - going up to people and saying "SLIDE!" in a very cheerful manner, then playing with them for two hours. And secondly, you realise conversation between two human beings doesn't have to be the slick, Emmy-Award winning, West Wing-style patter you believe it should be in your childless world of pubs, parties and work. Humans are actually quite simple, happy people. You can just talk about the kids' shoes, the vicious local tom-cat, and the new chutney they sell in Budgens, instead. And feel a lovely, village-y, lo-fi glow about human interaction.

7) Introduced me to the best social circle I've ever had. Before we had kids, everyone we knew was an alcoholic. And to be fair, everyone we know now is an alcoholic, too. But these new alcoholics have kids, and have to be in bed by 1am tops, which has almost certainly saved us all from terrible cirrhosis. And I love the almost soap-like feel of seeing them twice a day, at pick-up and drop-off, and the constant flow of gossip and updates and running gags and plans to all hire a barge together, which never quite come off.

Looking at that list now, I realise that, actually, I was a little more than a spineless creature, lying on my back at the bottom of a pond before I got pregnant. I probably should have started earlier, really. I wasted fully ten years being some hapless, incompetent, wastrel-spenk. I'd probably be CEO of UniLever, and have won the Nobel Prize for being sexy and deep, like, if I'd got up the duff at 14.

Comments

[SB_Mary]

1. The thing I love (one of the things I love) about Caitlin’s writing is that she doesn’t say or imply “My life is/was better before/after having children”. She just points out it’s different. A deft touch, and with plenty of humour. Perhaps we could all take a leaf out of her book and stop drawing such a dividing line and planting our flags in either camp? Like men and women, there’s nothing to be gained from assuming either is inherently “better” or “worse”, and we are ALL denigrated when people do.

2. People are more than entitled to say “I am a better person than I was for having children”. We’ve seen it to be true in many cases. But when people say (or imply) “I am a better person THAN YOU for having children”… then back off.

3. If I thought I wasn’t “allowed” to read Alphamummy because of the implication that non-parents weren’t welcome here, I’d be, um, pretty narked. In fact I logged on to make a sarcastic comment about it before realising there’d be nothing to gained from it.

4. Emotions run high here, something some people can seem to forget. Posters are bearing their soul with heartrending tales of involuntary infertility, multiple miscarriages and that tragic term, stillborn. The word alone makes my eyes prickle. We ought to be supporting each other and having a care not to be over-flippant, it is easy to misinterpret. I bet Caitlin’s mortified at some of the comments posted here.

5. Some respect is in order for the people that juggle the organised chaos that is child-rearing (there! I said it!). Likewise, some respect is in order for the decision of an individual/couple not to take that route. It’s their decision. Nothing to do with you. It’s easy to get defensive when that decision is or appears to be questioned. If we wanted to be made like unnatural freaks, we’d read the Daily Mail.

6. Keep up the good work! Whether that’s pursuing your dreams, raising your children, pursuing your dreams while raising your children, pursuing your dreams while raising your children while writing an excellent column… you go, girl!

[Pat]

Just came back to this thread and it maybe worth some clarification. I don't have every aspect of my life in order. I never get to the gym and buying new clothes is a once a year event if I'm lucky - no time. Internet shopping is a great help and I love airport shopping if I have a business trip ;-)> I don't get to spend much time with friends and I keep buying books on the internet that I'll only get to read when my children leave home. I encourage my children to do some after school activities but also encourage them to have chill-out time at home as well so we're not drivign all over the place every evening. And I don't beat myself up about what I'm not !

Ad-mum I'm not trying to be a perfect mother, I'm trying to be a good mother and I think working mums have to learn that SAHM mothers are not perfect either and stop putting that pressure on themselves. Look at what you do well, you're a good mother too. I suspect you're trying too hard to be perfect because you feel you must if you work as well.

Although work is hard I would go insane if I didn't work. I need that challenge. I have a demanding job where I am good and I know I'm good. Therefore if I have to reschedule a meeting due to a clash with a school event or do a call from the playground I reason they have to accept it. I also accept that I would get a huge increase in salary if I moved to another company/country but I would lose the flexibility so I accept that as part of the deal.

It can be hard to switch from worrying about million£ deals to looking after the children but those skills applied at home can help you provide just as good (if not better) home environment for your children. I can analysis what my kids need from me and what sort of mother I want to be and focus on that rather than worrying about the extraneous things that need doing.

Apologies for offending people but I struggle with people who say being a SAHM is just as hard as working. I see plenty of SAHM's that cook junk for their children and do nothing to support the school or community but have lots of time to go to the gym, shop and meet friends. I know I spend more time with my children and do a better job of being a mother but I work a lot harder !

[KM]

ooh yes, J is so right, if you don't have contact with other bright adults you end up addicted to Alphamummy instead.

[Lucy]

I seem to be going anonymous. Dark suspicions that OH has deleted my cookie again.

That last anon. post was me

- Lucy.

Without wishing in the least to suggest I know what I'm talking about, I would like, very respectfully, to disagree slightly with the posts that concentrate on how Ad-Mum could tailor her work life or her nanny or her role in relation to the nanny. I am not a mummy but my memories of being a horrible annoying child are clear and strong, and I think that it is too easy for mums to beat themselves up and/or believe they are the source and centre of the problem. Please do keep in mind the possibility that your children are just being children - lovely, I'm certain, but also probably at times not quite angels and with a natural children's desire to annoy mummy. There is, to many children (I was one like this; I knew lots more) NOTHING more fun than testing the boundaries, trying to get a response, etc. Often, we didn't even really understand it wasn't quite so much fun for mum - if we thought about it at all.

So please - while the comments made are I'm sure constructive, don't feel you have to see this in terms of a problem to which changing yourself is the solution.

(Does that make sense?)

[Delilah]

I used to work 4 hours a day, with one full day a week (moved around to fit meetings etc). I had a lovely ex-nursery-nurse nanny (who is still an honorary auntie) looking after the kids. I didn't notice too many handover problems, although my eldest did used to kick my shins when I picked her up from school, I think she was just tired. I do think the fact that they had the same rythm each day helped.

It may be that they are slightly bored when you take over. Nannies have busy busy schedules with playdates and activities galore - after all, it's their job - and it isn't really the same as Being Home With Mother. Personally, I think children do better left more to their own devices, but you can't really ask a nanny to do that. It can be hard for them to adjust. Maybe you could be a bit more child-centered on the first day you are back, and leave the laundry and other things to the next day?

The other thing is to be honest with yourself about how much you allow work to intrude on your time at home - psychologically, if not actually juggling phone calls and rushing them off to bed so you can deal with something that came up on your "day off". If you're actually squeezing a full-time job into those 4 days, make sure you're being paid for it; and consider whether you and the kids might be better off with a nanny 5 days a week so you aren't running yourself into the ground.

[j]

admum you make it sound like going on holiday!

I think it is very true *of certain stages of childhood*. Do you by any chance have a child between 18 months and 4 years old? if so, it is going to get better, they get more normal and less manic and less unlike you. The day comes when you actually both genuinely enjoy the same ways of relaxing.

On your plan, sounds absolutely rational *but* I am guessing that you will need some contact with bright adults, whether other FT mothers or work colleagues, so dont burn every bridge.

[j]

singledad please please stay and talk to us some more. Bob is another man in the same position as you, but whose children are older- he's posting on the other thread.

[KM]

I know what you mean about the adjustment, and I'm honestly not sure what would work best - to work at managing that better, or to take the juggling route.
The thing I think you lose with the juggling route is a clear division between home and work time. Which can be equally wearying in a different way.

[mumoftwo]

Ad-Mum, I can also relate to that difficulty in adjusting between the two worlds, particularly the pace of life. I have found I have to consciously power down (say on the Thurs eve if you work 4 days) to really enjoy being with the children. When you are with the children, you have to stop yourself looking to achieve goals (which leads to you getting impatient and ratty if, say, they take a long time to tell you something) and start just being around them. I always say stuff the washing up at the end of a week and deliberately sit down, watch telly and have cuddles, chat, focus on them 100% just for a short time, then you get more into the family world and less in the business world of 'getting things done'. I don't think this happens automatically, it has taken me a while to work out how best to do this and how not to carry on with work-type goal oriented problem-solving behaviour when I arrive home. That's not to say I think SAHM have a less busy time, I've done it and it was constant and very full-on, but in a different way, with a different pattern to the day, so I can sympathise with adjusting.

If you love your job, I'd look to consciously try to manage the transition better, if you don't or you fancy a change of pace, then working a few hours a day might be a good solution (though I don't know if the feeling of never doing anything properly really leaves you once you are a parent and constantly multi-tasking!)

[Ad-Mum]

Hi KM. Huge thanks for your reply.
As per my reply to Delilah, I'm lucky enough to have a lovely nanny, so i have no worries about the children not being looked after properly when I'm not there.

I think that the issue is probably more with me. I find the schizophrenia of 4 days full on work followed by 3 days at home tricky to deal with. For example, doing everything at 100 miles an hour Monday-Thursday then slowing way down to child pace on Friday morning. Adjusting from debates with CEOs to persuading small child to eat their broccoli.

I suspect that both the children and I spend a fair bit of my 3 days at home adjusting to each other.

It certainly makes for an interesting life, but after 5 years of operating this way I'm starting to think that the stress caused, and time taken, by the constant adjustment makes me less good at either job than I'd like to be!

My hope is that if I stop doing the sort of work that I do now (which, unfortunately, I can't do on 3 days),and spend some time - at least initially - doing 100% children, then I can gradually build up a completely different and more flexible sort of employment which'll be less 'all or nothing' and more 'a bit of everything'.

Wishful thinking?

[KM]

SingleDad, what you said is beautiful and profound and I want to stick it on my wall. (elbows Caitlin out of the way). Please don't stop posting now, we need men who are thoughtful and interesting and care about their children on this blog otherwise it all gets very one-sided.
We seem to be getting a sudden spate of nice men, or at least ones who don't just post abuse and then leave, which is lovely.
(The nice men are lovely, I mean, not the shouty nasty ones)

[KM]

Took me a while to answer Ad-Mum's post, because I wanted to think hard before I did so. I'm SAHM at the moment but have studied whilst my first was small so have a sense of both worlds. There is no perfect solution, you will feel frustration and disappointment whatever you do.

What is most important is that clearly your children flourish with having you around them. That is wonderful and is the most important thing, whether they go into childcare as well or not. So no one is going to be damaged by whatever decision you make.

Some questions:
are they in a nursery or with a childminder? Long days at nursery can overtire and overstimulate some small kids.
If with a childminder, are they getting enough sleep/down time during the day?
Do you think they are actually suffering because you are at work, or do you think it is more a case of the grass is always greener?
I ask because the radical solution of giving up work MIGHT not be best, there might be other simpler things that you can do. Also, if you are only seeing them morning and evenings well of course they're exhausted and impossible - it doesn't mean the childcare isn't suiting them just as a working parent you're getting them at a bad time of day.

Can you cut back to 3 days without losing your job?
HTH. Sorry to be nosy.

[Caitlin MOran]

Singledad, I'm really genuinely moved by both your story, and your honesty in telling it, and just want to say "thank you for sharing," and are you fit?

[Ad-Mum]

Hi Delilah! To answer your question, I have a lovely nanny (ex nursery nurse) who looks after the children 4 days a week. She's not only great at playing with them, but also strict when necessary!

I suspect (and it's just a theory) that it's easier, and less disruptive for children) if you can do a more flexible/freelance sort of job which means working e.g. 4 hours every day, rather than not being around at all 4 days a week, then around constantly 3 days a week.

But, hell, I think that what we all know is that no solution is perfect.

SINGLEDAD - all power to you! Your son is lucky to have such a great Dad xxx

[SingleDad]

Yes. I have been going through much the same transformation since I became a single Dad when my son's mum died. I soon realised that my experience as a City high flyer was the only ground I had on which to make a beginning but that would be too limited as a source of ideas as to how to conduct family life in the best way for my boy. It has taken single mindedness (I am only now, after 3 years, looking to take on a "proper" job) but that has given me time to learn the value of what Caitlin talks about. As she says, I have also been relearning my beliefs and attitudes about myself, friends, work and Life.
Nothing will bring my wife back but learning about taking responsibility for more than being a 'dad' has given me (and my boy) so much. As important as healing is the assurance that comes from not having tried to 'get back to normal' by being just a 'successful' modern man. Trying as hard to make myself fit to be as successful a parent as I was trying to be a successful City type has changed me in ways that I think are good.
However, as Caitlin's article points out, this is 'just a phase' and it has been one which, from the financial point of view, I want to end soon. Thus, as a single parent I have had to accomodate the fact that being diligent about making a good life for my boy is a trade off against my future financial security. I am lucky to have a good education and some skills (and savings) to fall back on and I can't imagine how daunted many single parents (who don't have them) are.
I hope (and intend) never to loose the depth that learning to do the 'mother's side' of child rearing has given me. I expect to be a much better friend and colleague to people who are achieving all this while meeting the demands of a job. I am also much happier and I never want to lose that.
I salute the working (and not working) Mums of the World but I also admire the insights and depths that your position can give you. I am awestruck by the courage and achievements of single parents.
Caitlin, thanks for a great article!

[mmmm]

Hello Lazy Mummy,

Thank you for replying - unfortunately I'm reading this 2 mins before setting of to the airport so can't reaply but since you took the time to write I wanted to say hello, and I will reply on monday, watch this space!

[Lazy Mummy]

Hi MMMM -

Wanted to respond to your earlier comments (but a bit behind as this blog just exploded).

When I think about it, when I wrote my earlier comments, I was thinking more of friends/family who have chosen not to have children (and who have v. idealised views of what bringing up a child can be like) not of people who've been unable to have them; having experienced infertility myself, I do know how excruciating it is, and I certainly wasn't deliberately trying to offend anyone who has experienced it. I'm sorry if I offended you.

But (and I hate this metaphor - I know it's been used by other people on AM before) I do think there are things parents have in common just as there are for others who have trodden the same path as each other. I'm probably not being v. articulate here but just as anyone who's suffered infertility, or anyone who's adopted a child, or anyone who's been in a riot or a war zone together has a common understanding of some things, so, I think, do parents.

Hmm, in terms of fulfillment, I never thought I wanted a child until suddenly I did, and I never assumed that having a child would fulfill me or complete me as a woman or any of that stuff. And it didn't (complete me, that is - though it is, for me, fulfilling). I love my child, more than life itself, but I don't think I'm a better person for being a parent, just a more cynical one. Happier, yes. But also more stressed. Bigger highs and lows of emotion. And permanently exhausted. And still asking myself "What should I do with my life?"

[Delilah]

Ad-Mum, who looks after your kids on the 4 days you are out? I would guess that that has much more influence on the way they behave than the fact that you are at work.

[KM]

It wasn't Californian, LM, it was nice.

[Lazy Mummy]

(Oh god, I just realised how Californian my last post sounded. I apologise - in a rush between meetings but just wanted to post my thoughts...)

[Lazy Mummy]

ME - you don't give many specifics about your situation, but if your child senses that you regret their existence, this is going to have a long-lasting and damaging effect on them. From what you said, it sounds as if you feel stuck, and (having felt that way in the past myself) I know how hard and disempowering that can feel. Maybe one thing you need is help getting unstuck (or feeling unstuck). You need options.

I suppose you know if you have friends or relatives who can help you out (or the child's father - you don't mention whether you're together or not). As far as the job is concerned, I don't think you should despair, but as J says, start/keep looking. If you're in the UK, I think there are childcare places available (OK all the UK-based mothers can laugh at me for stating that). And if the job situation is partly related to qualifications, then I'm fairly sure that colleges have childcare options for students who need them.

Perhaps a good approach would be to write out your options with pros, cons & how a ranking for feasibility. That might help you come up with options and a plan. I wonder if counselling is an option, because to me, it sounds like that might help you.

[Kieransmum]

ME: J gives good advice, as usual. If you're still reading, how old is your child?
What kind of work, ideally, would you like to do?

[Lucy]

Me, I do hope it gets better. I think you are very brave. Best of luck.

Ad-mum, my mother spent most of my and my brothers' early years feeling woefully inept (so she says, and I remember it too ... oops) against mums who seemed to do it all effortlessly. But I don't think anyone (even Pat) manages with no problems at all! Everyone has to admit problems somewhere - as she says, she finds the paid work bit really hard. Comfort yourself though there was a mum whose children were constantly held up to me as a shining example by my poor frazzled mummy (the mum was also, according to her boast, a whizz at work ... too perfect, clearly). Nowadays, her children have grown up into utterly boring adults who have gone through life with no interest in anything, and, despite being quite bright, at least one of them is doing a dull, badly paid job that he doesn't enjoy. They never learnt to test the boundaries, and without mummy offering constant structured play, they didn't seem to know what to do. Seriously, they are quite sad, unsatisfied adults. So ... maybe your children are actually giving you a hard time at the moment because you are giving them the interaction and so on that they need to become exciting people?

(NB - Pat, I'm not trying to have a go at you by the comparison - what I mean is that people who claim to have *every single aspect* of life running perfectly tend to be struggling/ skimping in one or another way - and I know you weren't in the least making that claim. Argh .... these scary anti-mum posts are making me so jittery about upsetting people. :-(

[Gipsy]

Ad-mum - rest assured that Pat is the first working-outside-the-home mother that I've heard say that!

ME - my apologies! I often miss posts, I think because I either scroll too fast through comments or because I'm just not reading all the newly posted comments since I was last on.

Let me send you lots of *hugs*