Top 5 Victories for pester power

Michael wrote in with the following response to the pester power post: his list of the items that have only flourished because of pester power.

Top 5 Victories for pester power

1: Bratz Dolls
Few mothers, and absolutely no fathers, want their child to grow up taking fashion cues from Bratz dolls. With their teenage hooker pouts and micro mini wardrobes they are a flash forward to a million parent-teenager arguments. Still, they sell in terrific quantities, and challenge the by contrast rather demure Barbie for the top selling girl’s toy slot most Christmases.

2: Swords and guns
No matter how hard woolly liberal parents try to dissuade their young sons from choosing weapon-inspired toys, the violence just seems innate.  Try as you might to encourage the caring, nurturing side to your son he just wants to stab people. With a big plastic sword that could easily have someone’s eye out. Might as well let him get some practice before he moves on to the real thing.

3: Electric hair twirler
Every young girls who sees this perceives it as the pinnacle of personal grooming. Every parent sees it as a guaranteed trip to A&E. You’ll thank every God you’ve ever heard of when the battery finally runs out.

4: Electric powered toy cars
Not the ones that cost £20 and can fit in his toybox. The kind that cost upwards of £400 and demand their own garage. Every small boy wants one of these. Until he hits 3'5" and he can’t get in it anymore. Then it’s a very expensive ornament. That’s four feet long. Bought exclusively by overachieving dads or parents who are just plain scared of their own kids.

5: Super soaker water gun
Impossible to play with indoors, deeply antisocial in any public space, and just plain annoying in your garden. You don’t want to buy it. You’ll end up with two.

Picture taken by callme_crochet on Flickr.com

Comments

[aurora and bailey]

you have a lot of bratzs doll?
how did you get all those dolls?
you have to be rich to have that many dolls? If you are rich how rich?

[sakura]

Actually, we have decided to stay put. My husband is looking for a position which means we can stay where we are. We will not be returning.

I think I can put up with the discomfort, I decided I would rather be the one who has to tolerate passing racism than my children, who appear to be more accepted here than they are back in the UK.

The worst thing is, people do not even realise when they are being offensive and try to pass it off as the problem of the people they are offending rather than understand their words and actions hurt others.

[j]

"I partly never want to live somewhere where bigotry and such nastiness is tolerated and those who are offended are urged to accept that they are indeed too sensitive,, or the problem they have faced doesnt exist."

Sakura, I can honestly say that if you moved where I live, you would not have to face that, and so I hope you find a similar community in London- the chances have to be good.

I find it very sad that you have suffered such behaviour- though having you bottom pinched on the train sounds like sexist behaviour rather than racist (though perhaps foreign women are assumed to be fair game- I have had that too in some countries).

[Lucy]

Aw, replies! Thanks, kind people. I only realised after I'd posted just how far back the posts I was responding to were. I agree, J - and I didn't know how many Oxbridge dyslexics there were. Interesting.

Pester power for reading of stories, btw, goes on for much longer with dyslexic children...

;-)

[j]

Lucy- spot on and can I say that there are about 2,000 dyslexic students at Oxford and Cambridge between them.

Pretending your child is dyslexia when he/she is not- that is something else and always worries me, as if you are not dyslexic then there is no point giving you help designed for dyslexic people. As it is a genuine and specific learning pattern, it follows that the help is targeted and specific too. So the poor non-dyslexic kid whose mother wont face reality is not getting the help he/she actually needs.

[Gipsy]

Lucy, the spatial thing is very interesting. My stepson is very 'classically' dyslexic, and it always astonished me that he could almost think in 3D, found mathematical reasoning so easy, and was able to hit the furtherest targets with such uncanny accuracy, but found catching a ball and tying his shoelaces so difficult.

[sakura]

Im in the far east (dont want to be more specific). Where we move back to depends on my husband. We are moving back to London, but will not be living centrally again. I want trees and I want a proper garden.

As a white woman in far east Asia I too get stared at, spoken to inappropriately, given rounds of applause for using chopstick, had my backside grabbed on trains. We are somewhat local celebrities due to sheer rarity value when we go to the local shops. That said, my daughter is much happier here in her international school, amongst her global citizen peers. I get gleeful `she looks like meeeeeeeeeeee!` comments from her. The standard of teaching is also much higher.

In the UK, before we shifted to private schooling she was confronted with comments about her looks which were directly linked to her race. I understand that all children get singled out for something, though the final straw with me was her being called `slitty eyed` by mother in the playground.

I get asked `oh is she very quiet/neat/`good`? No she is a bright firecracker, but her face says to people, who like sterotyping on the basis of looks `I am a far east asian`. Soon follows `oh she should play violin`, `Im not suprised she is good at maths XXXese usually are`. People expect her to be quiet and submissive.

Like Sue looks at a child playing with a doll and allegedly makes these extreme assumptions about that child`s future and their parents morals, some people do make damaging assumptions based on looks.

Or else they try to be positive. Marking out their discomfort, or not knowing what to say by drawing attention to the racial features which so mark her apart.

My son could `pass` for caucasian. He has big grey eyes, and a less honey skin tone. He is also built like a tank. Its when he opens his mouth and starts babbling in baby-ese and singing along to popular childrens songs, that he marks himself out. Anyway, as someone commented, people look at boys and they want to comment on how big, how active, how cheeky they are.

Actually here my son has a slightly tougher time of it. He doesnt fit so easily into the to and fro of the baby groups and is always the `foreign boy`. He is too young to care much at the moment and prefers the company of his family to others, still.

I partly cannot wait to return. I crave good fruit cakes and roast dinners, and I miss the bbc so very much. The international bbc channel has been reduced to news only here!

I partly never want to live somewhere where bigotry and such nastiness is tolerated and those who are offended are urged to accept that they are indeed too sensitive,, or the problem they have faced doesnt exist.

I do hope Sue hasnt been scared away. She is entitled to her opinions as much as anyone else, but others will take exception to such strong views.

[Lucy]

To Gipsy, Kim, Sue, anyone else on the dyslexia issue...

And to Emily W: 'Everybody knows dyslexia is just middle class stupidity given a fancy disguise' Yes, dyslexics are plain stupid. Damn, I always knew there was a reason for the Oxbridge acceptances, the straight As, and now I know ... I've been serially misdiagnosed, right?

I seem to keep coming late to the discussion atm, but I wanted to comment back about dyslexia. I'm dyslexic and I've never managed to learn the alphabet, to spell correctly (I use a spellcheck) to tell right from left quickly, or to remember more than 2/3 digits at once. I've never worked out which way round s, z and 5 are when I'm writing, and I can't understand the difference between x and z.

My knowledge of dyslexia comes from my family: my mother's work is in tutoring and advising dyslexics, from children to adults, and many of my and my partner's family are dyslexic or dyspraxic to some degree. I know a bit about it although as you may imagine some of this is educated guesswork.

Dyslexia is poorly defined. One definition that I find particularly helpful is the broad idea that dyslexics have wide gaps between the things they are best at and the things they are worst at. Often, what people will describe is someone who can explain well what they mean, draw well, or be very practical - yet struggle with the written side, confuse left and right, be clumsy, etc. This is classic verging on stereotypical. However, you might also find problems with spatial skills (can't catch a ball, can't tie shoelaces, for example), with recognising syllables in a word (eg, what is 'jar' without the 'j'?), very often with poor short-term memory, and with many other things. For example, my partner and I are almost mirror-images in terms of strengths and weaknesses, but if you know what you're looking for, it is not hard to see that both of us show quite obvious 'dyslexic' features.

If you are looking for 'spikes' in an ability profile, it will be easiest to diagnose bright people, because their strengths will be the most notable (eg. mathematical reasoning IQs of 140, say). It is much harder to diagnose someone of below-average intelligence, because their high and low points may blur into what is perceived as either 'normal' (at the high end) or 'dim' (at the low end).

[Here endeth the lesson ... sorry people... :-)

[Lazy Mummy]

Good point, J - thank you.

[J]

well, that is true. On the other hand, I had suspected the link (if its true) ages ago and kept quiet. But the posts were getting increasingly judgemental and offensive. All Sue had to do was say, what who, me, no idea who you mean, and take the hint.

[Lazy Mummy]

Btw, I hope we haven't scared off Sue/Jane. It occurs to me that recently another AM regular alluded to having had their AM cover blown in an unpleasant way and I hope - sincerely hope - we haven't done that to someone in a way that is hurtful or dangerous to them. (I suppose all of us could be recognised from the info we share to some extent here & we should therefore be respectful of each others' aliases. I apologise if I wasn't.)

[Lazy Mummy]

Gipsy - I'm reading the comments the same ways as you; don't think you're being overly-generous, just think you're assuming (as I do) that everyone has good intentions until proven otherwise (yeah, I know that's naive, but to me it's preferable to walking through life being paranoid the whole time).

[Lazy Mummy]

Sakura,

I apologise; I didn't mean to offend you.

I think there are two issues here: lookism and racism/bigotry. Sometimes the two are combined, often they are separate.

Like Mo2 and you and J, I have a daughter who (somehow - god only knows how) is a stunner (and like yours, she's of mixed ethnicity); ever since she was a tiny infant, people have stopped us in the street to say how gorgeous she is, all those sort of comments you've had. We just brush them off with a "yeah, yeah but you should see her behaviour" (you know how the English are terrible at taking compliments?) or a "thank you" (if we're feeling gracious). I'm sure this will stop when she's older; don't know what that cut-off age will be though.

But at the end of the day, that is who my daughter is. She's too young for anyone to know yet how she'll be academically, but given her family history & her current aptitudes, she'll probably be a high achiever, academically, when she gets to that stage. But there are plenty of beautiful children who are also incredibly bright and if SM were contributing on this thread she'd probably tell you that this is a great advantage in life, that to have both looks and ability and doesn't hurt anyone.

It is hard, though, making sure your child doesn't feel boxed into this category and we always counter compliments about our daughter's appearance with comments about her brains because really that's what we'd prefer her to focus on (although, hell, if she could make it as her generation's Kate Moss she'd be way more secure financially than with a PhD. JOKE).

On your point about the UK being bigoted, well, my experience is there are pockets of bigotry everywhere in the world (I've lived & worked on 3 continents, comprising 6 countries and travelled extensively elsewhere and have family, including husband's family, on 3 continents). Usually what I've found is that people are more accepting/less judgmental in big, cosmopolitan, economically successful cities and people are more bigoted (in general, not just on racial issues) in areas not like that.

On the other hand, my American-Mediterranean husband always prefers visiting the rural north of England (where I'm from) to London or Oxford or the big tourist destinations in Britain because he feels less judged up there. People assume he has a "real" reason to be there (because, hell, why would you go there if you didn't have a really good reason/connection?) & don't treat him as either a "dumb American" or worse because they're don't view him as a "regular" tourist.

(Btw, as a large-busted, full-on blonde living in Asia in my early 20s when I was as beautiful as all 20-somethings are, I experienced a lot of that lookism and stereotyping/bigotry myself for the first time in my life, and it was definitely uncomfortable and frustrating in many ways. It was an eye-opener, for sure).

[Gipsy]

Yes, Sue has. And you know I was thinking just this morning if anyone had found her to get in touch (as discussed a while back).

People always comment on 'difference' and I think that it is just something that is a part of our nature. Until we see the negative side of it first hand, we don't have the foggiest idea we're doing it. Or maybe I'm just generous with other people's intentions.

[J]

Sakura, even, sorry, am terrible tuypist as all regulars know.

[J]

On Sakuro's other points, I would try to reassure you that it may depend on where you move to. You talk about even compliments as being unhelpful, as it draws attention to being different. Well yes, if you feel that those around you think that different=less good. I dont think they do round here.
My elder two have bright red hair, dead white skin and bright blue and green eyes respectively. there is no way they look average. I suppose poeple telling Child B she is pretty are drawing attnetion to it, but I hadnt thought of it that way. Maybe I'm naive but I think that there is nothing secondrate about Eurasian looks and therefore no need to feel selfconscious if those are the looks you have. But as I say, round here, your children wouldnt be "different" anyway.

Where are you moving back to? or would you rather not say?

"Sue" has gone awfully quiet...

[Gipsy]

Sakura - if you read this place more, and look at a lot of the responses here, you'll see that no-one holds with uncharming's point of view, and few are like Sue. Please stick around!

Lazymummy - sure, LM, why not? It gets abbreviated all the time anyway.

Sue - are you Jane? Well, I can't remember Jane ever being that bigoted or emotionally wearing. But then, as with Jane, there are times I like you and times I don't.

Debbie - sure there are lots of different types of Barbies, but at the end of the day, the standard, traditional Barbie is blond and blue eyed and looks rather like a Dutch or Norwegian policewoman. The thing with the Bratz dolls is that, right from the start, the core set of dolls are a solid mix of racial images. You don't have to go for the Chinese or the Hispanic Bratz, as you do with Barbie, you just go for a Bratz doll. There's no hyphenating needed. And for those of us who are constantly hyphenated, that's a really big thing.

[Timeforanewname]

Are any of the people on here real, or is it just the AM team making up posts? This thread is so insane that I can't believe anybody bothers to post on it. Or am I a Times staffer in disguise without even realising it?

[mumoftwo]

Sakura, I am also shocked by some of the things written on here. I agree that what you have to do is decide whether you want to engage in debate or not, I simply don't if I think the point is just too ridiculous, as many have been on this thread. I think you are righly protective of your child, but on the other hand, if you let one or perhaps two people's views outweigh the opinions of many, it is giving them too much weight when frankly, they are in the minority.

My children are part Eastern European and I read rude things about Eastern European immigrants 'swamping' our country all the time in the Daily Mail or old grannies on buses go on about immigration to me not knowing the nationality of my husband, however, I have to say in daily life, I don't feel they are affected by negative attitudes at all. Plus if you move to a large city in the Uk, your children simply won't stand out whatsoever- she will be x who is friends with y given her friends will come from diverse ethnic groups.

As for looks, wow, this is a double-edged sword for all pretty little girls. I understand that you are saying that your daughter gets 'reduced' to her looks when there is so much more to her. I don't think this is exclusively a problem of mixed race/bi-racial children. My second daughter looks like a little doll, and (as I tried to explain on the other thread, a very engaging manner) and she gets constant remarks all the time like 'well, you're a cutie, aren't you?', 'she's a pretty little thing', 'wow, look at those eyes', 'you want to watch her when she's older' even from strange men in the street, on airplanes, in the doctors! Her sister has a much more straightforward manner and is initially wary of strangers, and gets much less of these remarks. I think it is very much gender-biased, I bet your son doesn't get similar remarks about his looks (people are more likely to say, isn't he big/strong/active/lively). Quite how you divert people onto their interesting personalities, I'm not sure but I do recognise your frustration. As Gipsy says, the way forward is to teach them resilience and inner worth because, ultimately, they will have to deal with others' reactions to their looks. The world where no-one notices anyone's external appearance is sadly not round the corner.

[sakura]

There is a huge difference between playboy branded stationery and bratz dolls.

I would never buy anything related to a `sex industry` based brand. It is sick and wrong. After all, all we want to do is protect our children from harm. We just differ in what we feel is harmful and the way we express ourselves.

Bratz dolls are harmless. It doesnt bother me others dont like them, each to their own. What does bother me is the class-based snobbish comments, and the claim my beautiful, innocent daughter will turn into a sex worker because she plays with them.

Bratz dolls are nothing to do with sex. They are fun dollies who actually fill a need in the market. I am glad my child has a doll to play with which has fun clothes and she can identify with. Rag dolls just arent the same. Incidentally Ive found great multicutural rag dolls online, which I bought for her, but she prefers a plastic type poseable doll. Baby dolls are harder to find. Ive never been able to find an eurasian looking baby doll. Perhaps its a gap in the market.

The reason why the person remained anon and also claimed to be `uncharming` is because they KNOW what they said was racist and plain insulting.

Right now I am not living in the UK, we will return soon, but I am dreading it. I used to say to my husband the the UK is not class based anymore. He is very much of the opinion that in the US if you work, you are rich, and you conduct yourself well, it doesnt matter about the colour of your skin or your social background.

Unfortunately others see fit to judge. Thank you for proving me utterly wrong. I wanted to defend educated Brits as having moved beyond all that. Sue et al have unfortunately led me to believe that there is no future in the UK for my family.

AS for the lovely, but misguided comments about how lovely Eurasian children look. I tried to explain, and Gypsy seems to understand, that this is NOT a helpful way to interact with mixed race children. It puts a lot of pressure on them, and draws attention to the fact they are not the same. My daughter at the local primary school used to get `you have eyes like a cat` (nice mummy), or Pretty China doll (frankly needed to return to 1955 mummy). Or `you have such lovely brown skin, you dont need to go on holiday for a tan. There comments are not nasty, but they draw attention to differences when all she wants to be is little girl Sakura, friend of x and y child. She took to comparing herself to me. Mummy you are milk, Im honey, daddy is cinnamon. It became an issue when it never has been one before school age, and before others kept on going on about how she looks. It has made her very self concious.

Unfortunately all the protests in the world will not get bigoted and unpleasant people to adjust their attitude. Its just ignorance you see.

AS for the comments about sluts and sex. No child should be sexualised. Dolls dont sexualise children. However demonising sex, or people who dress differently, or making a big deal out of sex workers, can lead to damamging children. How many of these men who go and murder women have a whore/virgin complex or hates prostitutes. We have responsbility as parents not to mess up our children.

I protect my children from harm, but I try to steer them away from judging people. I would not like to be judged myself, and would never think I was good enough to judge someone else. Anyone who can look at an inocent 5 year old child, playing with her beloved dollies, and say `well she is going ot be a whore, her mother doesnt know any better` etc etc etc..let alone the `lower class because she is mixed race`...well, they have the problem, not me and definately not my CLEVER, FUNNY daughter. Because before my child is pretty, she is clever and funny. She is a person, who doesnt want to be judged on looks and hates people talking to her about her honey skin or why she has catty eyes.

Im tired of it too, to be frank.

Right, have fun girls. Life is too short.

[Lazy Mummy]

Sakura -

Please don't disappear yet. I think you're possibly misreading more offensive things than are intended into some of the comments here.

Like you, I'm white but married someone of darker skin (admittedly, Mediterranean/olive complexion not full-on different racelike Asian or Black but we're ethnically different enough to look alien at each others' respective family gatherings). I didn't take Uncharming Anon Person's comments to mean they felt this was appropriate. I thought they were talking about societally how things had evolved historically and that they thought this was scandalous.

Am I missing something here? I've been reading/posting on AM since almost the beginning and I've never noticed racism per se. Other isms, yes, but not racism.

(Though I do disagree with little girls wearing crop tops & t-shirts with dodgy soft-porn slogans. But that's not racist, that's just - IMO - trashy and not a pressure I want on my pre-school daughter until she's a lot older).

And I agree with J - your daughter will be a stunner & by then most of the world will be mixed anyway so it won't be such a big deal. Personally I was always jealous of people who had honey/tanned skin as I'm totally pasty white & it's really, really unattractive (whatever Madge says).

[Lazy Mummy]

J /Mo2 -

I think you're spot-on. Last week sometime, I told my husband "there's this new person posting on AM who I think is an old person under a new pseudonym but I don't want to say anything in case it outs her".

But since you've done it now:

yes, I think Sue has to be Jane. Let's see:

--Chose a 1-word, single-syllable woman's name as her AM moniker

--Has sons not daughters

--Alluded to issues with her weight

--Same sentence structure (grammar/syntax/style), similar views, same way of offending other people. (Btw, I don't think she does it intentionally, I just think she's a bit less articulate than she might be & people take things the wrong way).

I wonder...Sue - do you have one son, age about 9 or 10? Do you have long hair? Do you work part-time & believe everyone should have flexible work hours?

(Btw, am thinking, since KM has gone from long to short to flounder to exciting new name, of changing my own moniker, might just shorten to LM. Would that confuse too much?)

[sakura]

Uncharming person,

Also by inference you are suggesting I am somehow inferior, and `low class` by marrying and having children with a man who is not white.

Im not sure this is the sort of impression alpha mummy wants to make.

I cant believe that more people are not utterly insulted and shocked by this kind of talk.

[sakura]

Uncharming person,

That is just plain racism and utterly appallingly insulting towards me and my family.

I dont give two figs about the class system, but suggesting my mixed children are `associated with a lower class` because of the colour of their skin and the shape of their features is utterly, unredeemably disgusting.

That is precisely why my daughter needs dolls that look like her.

I think I will go back to mumsnet where at least racist views are not tolerated and noone insinuates my children are inferior, or `lower class` because they have darker skin and play with bratz dolls.

People who have these vile views are the reason why we went private, and why I have to work to fund that, long term. My daughter in the local primary school was utterly bullied for being different.

Sue, my daughter knows better than to judge other people by what they wear, my family know better than to be racist. We work, we pay our bills, we are a successful and a happy family.

Im shocked the comments suggesting that children are going to be prostitutes by playing with these dolls, let alone the `inferior` comment regarding mixed race children are allowed to stand on The Times

I am writing letters of complaints. There are some lovely people here, but these strong characters are polluting the place with nasty words like SLUT and disgusting racism.

[j]

"If someone wants to dress up as a tart, or, worse still, a dominatrix perhaps (I think that stupid girl whose parents house was trashed was dressed as that), then it says things about you that others - like me! - won't like. "

precisely the attitude that led to the murder of that poor teenaged girl who dressed as a goth.

The problem is, Sue, you assume you know what it "says" about someone. I might assume that being black but wearing a suit "says" you are an uppity n***** who deserves lynching- that was a common view not so long ago.

The Bratz dolls dont appeal to me but then I am not an innocent child, I know about sex and hookers so I make the connection.

But let's not choose Barbie for our new dolls. When I was a child my sister and I had an Eliza doll each. They were lovely dolls, realistic children, a bit like the doll my daughter now has, which I think is also called Eliza, it's an American doll from that American 18th century house. Anyway my sister's doll was dark skinned, (I think it was meant to be Indian but the hair was cheapo nylon so a bit hard to tell, the features were Indian rather than Eastern or African) and mine was white. My sister and I are both white and I dont think my mother even did it on purpose, she got what was in stock. What happened to that kind of doll?