How do baby names go out of fashion?

Above, Gretchen Franklin, who played Ethel in Eastenders

An article in today's Times points out that names like Norman, Gertrude, and, most surprisingly, Richard, are rarely or never given to babies nowadays.

Most of the entries in the top 10 seem glaringly outdated, after all, when was the last time you were introduced to a little Ethel or Ernest?

What makes us go off names? Why was Mabel the name you would give to the most precious thing you'd ever clapped eyes on one century, then a highly undesirable moniker the next?

However's lest us not forget, that Clifford would seem like a blessing compared to some of the creations outlined in Michael Moran's 20 strangest baby names post last month.

Comments

[Kim]

My favourite bit in that Freakonomics discussion was the guy who named one of his kids "Winner' and another "Loser". Winner grew up to be an armed robber, Loser had a highly successful career in the police force. Go figure, as I believe they say over the pond...

[K]

For anyone who'd like a good analysis of why names go in and out of fashion, together with tables correlating children's names to mother's level of education, can I suggest reading Freakonomics. It's a good book, and a large part of it covers exactly this subject.

[swissmiss150]

An elderly neighbor (now deceased) came from a family of ten children. The youngest was named Dix, which means ten. The parents just ran out of ideas.

The annoying thing is that whenever this neighbor used to hear of a large family, she would state firmly that they must either be Catholic or Mormon. Her family was not of either religion, so why did she automatically assume that of others?

[LM]

I think it might be because we Westerners bast****e the pronunciation of their names so much.

Iwork with a number of Chinese/Asian people (Korean, Malaysian, etc too) and lots of them have two names - their Chinese (etc) name and their English name. They use their English names for us poor morons who can't pronounce their real name, but go by the real name for official business (and presumably within their family/ethnic community though that's speculation not direct knowledge). Several of my British Indian friends at uni & work did something similar too.

[Eve]

My grandmother was Gertrude, known as Trudy which I think is a lovely name. If I ever have a daughter I would call her Sylvia or Gloria, both rather antiquated 1950s names but which I adore. Maybe I am just odd! Grace has been done to death in my opinion, likewise Lily and all its variations. I can't really talk when it comes to popular names however, my son is Charles, but not Charlie although he can choose to contract it if he wants when he's old enough to say so!

[j]

I've noticed that before about Chinese colleagues- their English names are things like Cecil and Percy.

Can a Chinese poster shed any light? is it the less educated families, choosing names from English language textbooks or novels? or are they genuinely chic in China?

[LT]

My Chinese friends have old fashioned names as their English names: Grace, Beatrice, Priscilla, etc. We are all in our early twenties.

[Teapot]

Also, I've heard that names tend to move down the social scale. A new or, more often, an old fashioned name often starts in the upper classes and moves down, eventually becoming "common" and then unpopular again.

I can see this happening with Henry - Henrys in their teens or above tend to be upper class and privately educated. Now a lot of friends in the middle class, state school bracket, have babies called Henry. Maybe soon it will become classed as common too.

Also, for name geeks, google the babynamewizard. It's US data, but still really interesting to see the rise and fall of names. Disturbingly, you could predict the generation of almost all my family members by their names!

[Mrs L]

Both my son's names are in the list and one of them has a middle name from the list too! I love those old-fashioned names. I have a good friend with a daughter called Agnes too, and I really like that name as well.
I agree, I think people just get bored and move on to the next thing until it all comes back round again.

[Eluned]

There are a lot of girls called Lilly and Grace, and a Lilly-Grace at my daughters' school. I'm not a fan of Lilly, it's a weak name imo. When my sons went to the same school half the girls were called Becky and the rest had traditional Welsh names - Ffion, Gwyneth etc.

Names go out of fashion when people get bored of them I guess.

[Kitta]

I think it’s partially to do with familiarisation, I grew up with lots of Olivia’s and Mark’ s so would never think of using either of those names. Too familiar (and I couldn’t stand one of the Olivia’s)

Where we live at the moment there seems to be a trend of double barrelled names for girls with May/ Mae been used as the second one a lot .

I was also friends with 2 people with very very individual names, never heard of them (the name that is) before or since. They both changed their names to something more main stream as soon as they realised they could. And hate to be reminded.
It’s when you have very strange spellings of names that I get annoyed particularly when they act like you’re a moron because you’ve spelt it wrong i.e.: Aaron spelt Aaarron. Odd

[SHO]

The Kaiser Chiefs have a lot to answer for with Ruby. And what about all those 20 year old Kayleighs - who wants to advertise that their parents were Marillion fans (I know that one crossed my mind!)

My father is the youngest of 13, he forgot one of his sister's names once which was a bit embarassing.

What I like to see are the old fashioned regional names, (London) Queenie, or the (Yorkshire) Emilys in our family.

Over here in Germany, one thing that makes me laugh is the trend which came around 5 years ago of calling boys Kevin. At the same time Florian, Pascal, Tobias and Fabian were popular and each class in school has a good sprinkling of those.

I especially feel for children with unusual names, though. I was born a few days after the island of Sertsey was thrown up off the coast of Iceland after an eruption and nearly ended up with that as my name.

[Gipsy]

My mum - one of 13, her mother, one of 11. My mum has no middle name - they'd run out by the time they got to her.

I love those Edwardian names like Ruby, Pearl, Lilah, and Lily.

[j]

15 didnt seem that many to me, even my granny was one of 9..then came the war and it was all only children for my mother's generation. But seriously, my granny (9th of 9) was called Nora Audrey Emily as all the sensible names like Margaret and Beatrice were long gone...

[mumoftwo]

J- wow, 15 children, times really have changed. It isn't that long ago...

Mind you, if you had just given birth to your fifteenth, then their name would probably be the least of your worries. You'd be well down the list of favourites by then!

[mumoftwo]

The only thing with Grace, or indeed all names which are adjectives or conjure up a certain picture, is that they might not fit with the child at all. We knew an older lady called Grace who was exceptionally clumsy (both physically and emotionally) and it was just so incongurous to call her 'Grace'. Other 'danger' names are things like Chastity (what was Cher thinking of!), Faith and Hope aren't so bad, or what I call girly names like Rosie, Honey, Petal, Fifi, etc. On a cute toddler, these can really fit, but if you are quite a no-nonsense, not very girly person in later life, it can become a bit of a mis-fit. For other people, they suit them really well- I knew a very girly Honey who lived up to her sweet name: I also knew a Rosie who felt herself to be distinctly unrosy.

Other names you don't hear much these days: Maureen, Pamela, months of the year ones like April, May, June.

I think the decline of Mary is due to the decline of practiced organized religion- it used to be an honour to be called Mary, or, say Jesus in Spain.

[Expat Mum]

When the post-Victorian names (like Emily, Hannah, Rebecca) came back into fashion, my gran and her peers thought they were awful. I wonder how us kids of the 60's and 70's will react when babies are named Susan, Jackie, Debbie, etc.?

[Ziggy Carson]

Grace has partly come into style because of Christians like myself. There are so few girl names in the Bible, versus Esther, Ruth or Bathsheba... many opt for Grace.

[Ziggy Carson]

Grace has partly come into style because of Christians like myself. There are so few girl names in the Bible, versus Esther, Ruth or Bathsheba... many opt for Grace.

[Lucie M]

"Ruby and Grace (both lovely names) have only just come back into fashion...perhaps there is an optimal distance between names (if your mum or grandmother is called it, it's out of fashion). "

Exactly, mumoftwo. But a lot of the names in that article, like Clifford and Gertrude, were never "traditional" to begin with and may never return. They had their time in the sun, Gertrude coasting along the wave of Germanic names that were fashionable in Victorian times, and got washed up on the shore. Wow, that's quite an extended seaside metaphor! And Mabel and Ethel had hundreds of years of obscurity before being revived in Victorian times. Who can say they won't be revived again in another few hundred years?
Sounds play into it too. Ruby, Grace, Ethel and Gertrude were all pretty popular a hundred years or so ago, but only Ruby and Grace fit into the soundscape of today's names.
True classics are those that stand the test of time - names like James or Katherine. Funny, though, how Mary has completely slipped off the radar after hundreds of years of glory - I guess it reached saturation point earlier this century. Even the classics go through ebbs and flows, and there are a lot of Grandma Marys.
Sorry for the lecture/ramble! I'm quite a geek about name trivia...

[LM]

On the increase in popularity here in the US is Henry, a name I'm personally not keen on. Emily v. popular here too, as are the perennials Josh & Kyle. Honestly, if I had a dollar for every Josh or Kyle I've met since emigrating, I'd be able to retire now. (Not keen on them as names myself - probably because they're just so over-used; they're even more popular than John/Steve or variants here).

[Nicky]

Oh, I quite like Richard. Can't say I'm keen on most of those in the list though. Except for Elsie, as one of my friend's daughters (aged 4) is called that, and it's kind of grown on me.
I think that's some of it - you get used to hearing certain names when they become popular again. My friends have teenage sons called Harry and George; neither of which I was keen on to begin with, but now I'm perfectly used to them and even quite like them.
Actually, we've called our puppy Harry. I wonder what that says about us...?

[Lucy]

Fifteen children?! J, how? That is absolutely astounding.

[j]

ps another reason for awful names is the problem of what to call your tenth child, or 15th in the case of my great grandma

[j]

Fashion is interesting though. As Margery Allingham said, what makes something honestly stylish one year and honestly embarrassing ten years later, is one of the great mysteries of life. Why do we change our minds?

I suppose boredom, public figures, etc.