I hope my daughter isn't a virgin when she marries

Michael Moran, Times Online's books editor and the author of Sod Abroad: Why You'd Be Mad to Leave the Comfort of Your Own Home, has written to us about the American practice of purity balls, to encourage young girls to maintain virginity until marriage.

This weekend, I came across a story in the Sunday Times News Review about ‘Virgin Balls', where American girls as young as 6 are dressed in pure white ‘wedding dress’ style outfits and encouraged by their fathers to swear an oath of chastity which is expected to hold until their wedding night. Indeed the entire business has the air of a peculiar marriage of father and daughter. As a father of a 6-year old myself, it gave me and unpleasant chill, and pause for thought. (See the Father-Daughter Purity Ball website here.)

I’m acutely aware how easy it is to brainwash a child of that age. My little girl is at a faith school, not through my choice, and she regularly admonishes me for not believing in God. She assures me that Jesus would be very upset to hear that I didn’t believe in him. She also believes in Batman, and is eager to read my ancient (and I always fancied, valuable) collection of comics.

She’s always pestering me to watch my Batman Begins DVD, but I think it’s too scary for a child of that age. If she watches a movie where the hero kisses the girl at the end though, she always puts her hand over her eyes.

I wouldn’t have to try very hard to talk her into going to one of these balls. I’d just have to show her the dress.

I wouldn’t have to tell her about sex to get her to put on one of those purity rings either. It would be as thrilling for her to get one as it was to get the free plastic necklace from a Disney Princess comic or the Batman wristband I got in a Dark Knight press pack. I wouldn’t need to talk to her about sex, too, because she doesn’t need to know.

All that will come later. As it evidently came to all of us parents sooner or later. I’m not quite sure how old a child has to be before that ‘birds and bees’ conversation happens. I suspect that in many households the information is absorbed gradually over the course of a number of years, with more detail being added as it becomes relevant to the child.

Although I fully expect a certain amount of friction between us regarding her choices of boyfriend somewhere along the line, Honestly I think I'll have failed as a parent if my daughter were to remain a virgin until she got married: Men shouldn't be something for teenage girls to fear. Yes, unwise choices of sexual partners can be harmful, even dangerous for an unlucky few. Equally, for a vast majority of sane, stable, sensibly brought-up girls they can be educational, and quite a bit of fun. A lot more fun, I would suggest, than a sinister novitiate virgin ritual.

Cutting Edge: The Virgin Daughters, produced and directed by Jane Treays, is on Channel 4 this Thursday at 9pm.

(Picture: girls at the Purity Ball)

More on Alpha Mummy:

What six year olds really know about sex

Sex education should start at 6

Jenny Colgan: Do you love one child better?

Freebirthing: the stylish new way to have a baby?

High heels for babies video

The top 15 worst movie mums

20 strangest baby names

Comments

[Chuck S]

How much research did you do before declaring "Purity Balls" (an ironic title of itself) an "American practice"? If I read an article about soccer hooligans in England, can I now call rioting a "British practice"?

Crap, pure crap. This is no more a common American practice than keeping a can full of urine by the door. Sure, in a nation of 300+ million you can probably find a group that thinks its a great idea, but it is a fringe business with little to do with the rest of the nation. Whatever you want from your daughter, don't use this claptrap to justify it 'because it's how the Americans do it'.

C

[Roz the Beta Mummy]

Marcel, hun: this is the Alpha MUMMY blog - correct me if I'm mixing up my Leviticus and my Mark, but aren't you spilling your seed on stony ground . . . ?

Besides, I don't think it's a 'proven fact' that any of the women you cite are actually happy . . .

[Kitta]

And these studies are printed where?
What a load of whooey!

[Marcel @ Marriage Howto]

To the author of this article, you have no idea what your talking about. But at least your sharing your opinion.

For your information... It's a statistically proven fact that christian women enjoy sex more than non christian women.

It's a proven fact that women that were virgins enjoy sex more than woman who where no virgins at marriage

It's also a fact that a virgin who gets gets married usually has lower incidences of adultery.

[Elma]

I completely disagree with your stupid comments, I really hope you don't hav daughters, as no doubt they'll be the biggest slags on the street losing their virginity at 13 or 15 and having a baby and movig in with a 12 yr old boy...
I think in the Christian world, there's a lot of pressure to grow up before your ready and have sex with anyone as long as its a male... and that's why your society is based solely around sex, with no respect for values or anything. If you find the right person and feel its a long term thing, then there's no problem... if its a fling or a series of 50 flings, then good luck, coz no one wants used goods (even with men) so start buying pets coz those are the only living things that'll stick with in the log run

[frances]

i wonder how many of the religious and moral zealots have read of the actual article. In what way was Moran sexualising his six year old girl? Did any of you read the last paragraph? Perhaps you should have. Very often parents are scaring their daughters with the idea that men will take advantage of them as one of the reasons for postponing sex until marriage, aside from the obvious self-respect issue that they seem to believe virginity equals. Moran is saying that he doesn't want his daughter to still be virgin when she's gets married because of what that signifies in today's society: a fear of the opposite sex, perhaps that she is unable to be anything other than promiscous so she has to remain a virgin. He wants to raise a daughter who is smart and sensible and mature enough to choose who she sleeps with regardless of certificates. For all those people advocating chastity, Jessica Simpson saved sex until marriage, was divorced three years later and is now sleeping with someone else. Everyone is entitled to their own views but raising children with the intention of making them wear chastity rings means that many of them rebel once out of their parents' sight and also lacking the sexual maturity to make responsible sexual decisions because their parents never sat them down and talked to them about it, except to tell them what they cannot do.

[MaD ScIeNtIsT]

1. Women can make bad/dangerous partners in relationships too...

2. rabid religious individuals: Don't worry, as soon as we scientists develop a cure for moron you will understand how incorrect you are.

3. The arguments like "This is 2008" [and so both sexes are equal] ignores one very important (and obvious) point: They are not. For example, it is seen as positive for a guy to have slept with lots of women because in an evolutionary sense it means his genes will survive, whereas for a woman to have slept with lots of men has no such advantage. (and yes, this does imply that I am saying the laws of the jungle play a large part in human relationships, even today - our brains have not changed much since the start of human civilization about 10000 years ago).

[Zen]

EH just remember not to use all those long words to convince yourself that you can start educating 6 year olds about sex owkay?

[Zen]

EH you are truely insane.

[Eh]

Atheism, as I see it, is a firm belief that supernatural powers, such as the "power of God," do not exist in reality. This is NOT inclusive; it directly contradicts all theistic systems of philosophy. Atheism was born out of the nihilistic philosophy of people like Nietzsche and Derrida -- do the research ! Yes, many of us see human good as well as human evil. To assume that this happens externally is tantamount to exercising faith, so the atheist believes that a given person's good and evil actions are to balance out via intention. This is, in essence, nihilism. Morality requires cooperation. The atheist is interested in cooperation so long as he directly profits. Once any perceivable profit dries up, he ceases to cooperate. Not ensuring everyone's cooperation is exercising faith. It's not uncommon for atheists to steal the property of someone who's on vacation or recently died. If you think that all atheists reject religion you are wrong. Because they are deceptive, many atheists work as so-called "religious leaders;" it is simply that they "do not practice what they preach." Again, because you probably have been deceived, you don't have a substantive understanding of atheism.

Resolving to accept "absolute" responsibility is vain and would actually require quite a bit of faith on everyone's part (or maybe you prefer the term "optimism"). Many are trying to control the weather, many are trying to control nature, many try to control the behavior of their fellow man and look at how it's playing out. Look at how their need to control every aspect of everyone's life is killing people en masse. What happens to those who survive? They have their freedom taken away. Is this strictly the action of "religous nuts," or sociopaths in general ? Requiring that everyone else take "absolute" responsibility so that there's always someone to blame is non-inclusive and irresponsible in itself. Science is at times heralded as a remedy for faith. Meanwhile, testing and accepting a scientific theory requires a level of faith, does it not? The mainstream fascistic system of so-called "science" is based on amorphous theories which contradict each other just as often as contradictions occur in the Bible. Despite scientific "breakthroughs" many of the most basic questions still remain unanswered and will probably remain so long after most of us are dead, yet the pastors of the church of science ask for more and more money for mere glimpses of possible solutions (yet more people pay tithes to the church of mutual funds or even the church of Star Wars). In addition, like I mentioned before, certain scientific theories are censored or hidden from the public. How can humans assume absolute responsibility with only incomplete knowledge of the universe ? To disagree with one particular way that one particular religion is practiced, then conclude that the power of God does not exist, is not logical. I'm sure everybody can find a religion with which to disagree. The Bible itself says to beware of false prophets !

People who practice the Judeo-Christian faiths with a "fundamentalist" or "orthodox" approach are a fringe minority. Citing those as examples as though they were typical is a fallacy. If you admit that those examples represent the religion's highest potential, however, you are admitting that you deprive yourself of the benefits.

A rite of passage every now and then is good for children. They create emotional anchors, clearly illustrate the intended message and provide a constructive activity through which children can bond and reassure one another. Graduation from school is a rite of passge. Why wear a stupid cap and gown, buy some bulky ring, sing a bunch of songs, listen to people talk and walk across a stage to receive a rolled up piece of paper? I don't see people on here objecting to that.

[Mister Six]

i am sorry so many angry people have told you to sod off. but i have to agree that this article needed to be about twice as long. we need to hear more about brainwashing, about child development...and moreover, why you really think a child having sex before marriage is a good idea. this just skimmed the surface.

sorry, mate. better luck next time, tho.

[Jos Costello]

EH,

"Embracing atheism is an irrational fear-based reaction"

That is your opinion. Oh, and most of my friends are not atheists. I respect their faith, they respect my lack of one.
To me being an atheist means taking absolute responsibility for the direction I take in life - choosing right over wrong, being a responsible parent, minimising my impact on the environment wherever possible, working for a living instead of living off the state. It means not condemning the beliefs of others - which by the way is not the same as not having an opinion of those beliefs. Personally I think a lot of people who take a fundamentalist approach to the Abahamic faiths do so out of fear - it is after all far easier to take one's answers from a book or a minister than to attempt to address the difficult questions of why the world is the way it is alone. I accept that my lack of faith is a belief in its own right, but I have just as much right as anyone else to choose my own beliefs and take comfort from them. I find it comforting that there is no God and that no-one is to blame for the natural disasters that kill thousands. I find it comforting to see that there is human good, not just human evil. I don't consider myself a nihilist at all, in fact as far as I am concerned the glass is half full. A lot of the things that are in the Bible and in other holy books come down to basic tenets about how civilised people behave with one another, so that we can rise above our selfish impulses and work for the common good. I just don't think that one needs to be a believer to have a moral compass. You are of course entitled to disagree.
This is going to be my last reply to you because unfortunately I'm finding nothing positive in anything you have said, nor have you addressed the issue which started this blog. I wish you every happiness in your life.

[Eh]

By reverting to character assassination you have demonstrated by your own part that you have nothing to contribute to any endeavor requiring serious thought.

Embracing atheism is an irrational fear-based reaction, as is embracing anarchy. If you value the safety of your children, you would keep them away from your atheist friends

[Jos Costello]

EH,

Feelings of guilt about what, exactly? Oh, of course, I'm one of those atheists who are prone to thievery because of our nihilistic outlook on life. Yes, I have read this entire thread though I must confess I've skimmed some of your more outlandish posts.

Your posts get wilder by the minute, you're very entertaining if off topic.

OK, so let's get back on topic here - where do you stand on these so-called purity balls? Do you think they're a good thing? Me, I trust my parenting skills and my children's good sense to guide them through life. I want them to be strong, self-confident young women - yes, I would like them to be women, not children when they first have sex, just as I was - who value themselves enough to say no to being used. I don't feel that I need artificial props like crosses and mock-wedding dresses to teach my children about right and wrong - do you? I also don't need God to do it. And before you bite, no, I'm not indoctrinating them to be little atheists. They are Anglicans at the moment and I will be happy for them to be so, as long as it is by their own choice. If they ask to go to church, their father will take them. He's a Christian, I am not - and we've been married ten years, together fifteen. Come on, let's have some relevant answers from you - looking forward to the next instalment from planet EH...

[Eh]

Jos Costello - Not only have you not contributed, but you haven't even read the thread. One is forced to wonder why such trite "humor" is even necessary. Perhaps you harbor feelings of guilt ?

Grace - Islamic law explicitly forbids homosexuality as well as the use of contraceptives, just like Christian and Jewish law. Individual Muslims choose to ignore certain religious laws that they feel are inconvenient, just like Christians and Jews

"Conservative" and "liberal" are propaganda black-vs-white bullshit terms. "Wahhabi" is another bullshit term pushed by the Western media as some sort of evidence that Muslims are evil. They don't even call themselves "wahhabi" ! In Saudi Arabia women are allowed to drive and be educated, and many practice the shariya on a volunteer basis which goes against "conservative" Islamic tradition. Almost all of the Islamic states have come under British control. The heads of these states are not even true-to-heart Muslims, rather they pose as fake religious leaders to deceive the people. Several of them have been known to be members of secret societies, including Saddam Hussein and Yasser Arafat. The name "Saudi Arabia" is not even the original name for that land, it was named for the Saud family during the 1700's.

The states that refuse to set up a British-run central bank are labeled "rogue" states by the US, which certainly does not apply to Saudia Arabia. Notice how in "rogue" states Islamic law is more strictly enforced.

Think that Osama bin-Laden just popped out of a hole? No, he was a member of one of the richest and most powerful families in Saudi Arabia. He witnessed the abandonment of Islamic custom in not only his family but increasing numbers of newly rich so-called Muslims. His family rebuilt the World Trade Center in 1993, his brother was having breakfast with George Bush, Sr. on 9-11, and his family had special permission to leave the US when they were being harassed. One of his cousins is a pop singer with a MySpace page !

The American "infidels" have the closest ties with Saudi Arabia out of all the Islamic states

... and all of you clueless idiots with your anti-Catholic nonsense are playing into a conspiracy as well -- not a Zionist conspiracy per se, but a conspiracy of secret societies which control the Zionist movement, the Catholic Church AND the fake so-called Muslims, including the fake Nation of Islam. Wonder why so many gays end up as Catholic priests ? Because the secret society initiation rites often include homosexual sex or sexually-harassing activities. In keeping with the oaths, they must turn a blind eye to whatever their fellow members do, and the stories of those homosexual acts are used as blackmail to keep members in check. This is how pedophilia and prostitution are allowed to flourish, and how intelligence agencies such as the MI-5/6 and the CIA are allowed to commit "thousands of serious crimes" per year. They are married to one another in the spiritual sense, so marrying a woman in the legal sense is mostly for social and financial benefit. Some of them choose to become cops, some become lawyers, some become engineers and some become Catholic priests.

[Grace]

EH, Muslims can and do use birth control, even in the most conservative Islamic states, like Saudi Arabia.

[Jos Costello]

Dear EH,

Neither are you, unless you think black helicopters are a contribution. Is your name Mulder by any chance?

What's happened to this blog since I posted? I thought we were discussing purity balls and whether or not they are creepy.

[Eh]

You're still contributing nothing to the discussion

[Carmine]

Ah, you're so cute! Here, have a virtual cookie. I love the way you're staying in character! It shows real dedication to providing lulz for the rest of us. Bless.

[Eh]

Wow, you went out of your way just to make a weak attempt to shame me. Guess which one of us looks suspicious (hint, it's you !). Congratulate yourself, for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion

PS: The evidence is out there. You just need to stop being coward and go and find it

[Carmine]

Lol, EH! I congratulate you on your trolling. A very impressive piece of work, but unfortunately, you went just a bit too far with all the conspiracy theories and gave yourself away. Still, it was enjoyable watching you lampoon the Christian Right and the tinhatters.

[Eh]

Well you're stupid times infinity !

And while you're on the web, go to dict.org and look up the word "compassion"

[Daisy]

EH: "Daisy - Come back after you've actually researched evolution. Humans didn't evolve from a "lower" form of primate."

Not only are you exceptionally stupid, you don't have a sense of humour either.

[Eh]

Annoyed - Your first sentence was unnecessary. Are you serious ??? I knew what she was eating !

Some people tend to have a hard time admitting that they're stressed because they are brainwashed into thinking that it's "selfish" or "unproductive." Others do it out of passive-aggression, which is probably what you were insinuating. A doctor with at least 20 years of education, a caseload of at least 1000 patients a year, and thousands of colleagues on call should know the signs of stress and frustration. Patients should not be put at risk for being uncooperative or unable to prognosticate their own illness. I blame Big Pharma because not only do they pay off the doctors (many would not make a decent living without their cut-backs), but this type of practice is systemic. Oh, and did I forget to mention that doctors have among the lowest life expectancy rates ?

Like I said a few times before, the cures are natural and cannot be patented. "Researchers" collect not only grant money but also charitable donations, so there's an incentive to prolong "research" as much as possible.

Ever wonder why technological advancement seems to have suddenly slowed down? New technologies are being hidden from the public (on a "need to know" basis). If you really need to see them, you should serve in the US military because that's where a lot of it goes. Car engines that can do 150 miles per gallon have been developed, but the plans to produce them are suppressed. If you think Google Earth is some kind of innovative phenomenon, it's not. You can look inside someone's home from outer space using satellites.

Daisy - Come back after you've actually researched evolution. Humans didn't evolve from a "lower" form of primate.

[Annoyed]

To EH - thank you, i know how the pill works. Firstly, your friend can't have been that malnourished else she would have stopped menstruating. Secondly, you're blaming big pharma for a doctor's mistake, or a lack of time in appointments. More likely, when your friend went to see your doctor, she probably went in looking for a solution to one symptom (irregular periods) and got it, people don't always readily admit to stress.
Both the combined (oestrogen and progesterone) and progesterone only pills will help regulate your period because they elevate hormone levels whilst you take them. When, at the end of the packet, you stop taking them, hormone levels drop and the lining of the womb is shed (as the body no longer thinks it is pregnant) and you have a period.

Secondly, to suggest that scientists have had a cure for MS for a long time now and won't use it does a great disservice to those struggling to find a cure. Trying to modulate an errant immune response whilst not damaging the body is tricky (hence why organ rejection is such a problem in transplant surgeries) and please give credit to all the hard work that has been done.