Do your kids ruin other people's holidays?

The Maldives has been transformed into a family-friendly destination and some people aren't happy about it, not happy at all. A few readers have responded to a Times travel article with comments about child-friendliness. Like this one from FJ, Sandown:

Oh great, yet another holiday destination ruined by the current craze for being 'family friendly'. Why can't families with young children stick to Butlins or Disney World?

This is reminiscent of the discussion on AM about pubs and whether kids ruin the atmosphere (wetting their pants, crying, and throwing tantrums should be reserved for the adults, some folks seem to think).

Caitlin has asked is Disneyland compulsory for families?

I personally find child-oriented holidays a little dire from an adult perspective. We have been to Euro Disney and the kids loved it. But that's not a child-friendly holiday - it's a child-devoted one.

The best family holidays are the ones where we aren't relegated to buying them things and we do things we all like: swimming, mini-golf, horseback riding, play card games together. When my children get older I want to take them to Taos during the summer to go hiking and visit the Pueblos like I remember doing with my mum and dad. I wouldn't schedule a cocktails-and-poolside getaway with them. I would just want to read and nap and their cries of "I'm bored" put me right off my daiquiri.

Have we simply as a society come to expect to do everything with our children - out of guilt or misplaced enthusiasm - and therefore don't acknowledge that sometimes grown-ups need to do grown-up things and kids, kids things (while also allowing kids to be seen AND heard)?

Comments

[Mike]

Richard - you are so right! What has happened? Having children seems to have been turned into a 'right' along with owning a house, a mobile phone, a trip to Macdonalds every day, a credit card with a £10,000 limit, two cars (of which one must be a 4X4) and so on and so on.
Having got the children (for these kind of people breeding seems so easy) when they are no longer 'babies' they are mentally discarded as being a pain up the a*** and left to their own devices. As somone said on a BBC radio phone in - why do we have to put up with these feral children and their bovine mothers!

[Jennie]

I fully accept that my kids tend to be 'vile' to be next to on public transport, restaurants etc. And they are some of the nicer, quieter children I know.
When I am (occasionally) by myself at restaurants I deliberately ask for tables away from families as it just ruins my peace and quiet.

Why are other parents so deluded to think their childrens happy (and not so happy) chatter is music to everyones ears? My daughters monologue on Cinderella (usually at full volume) may be delightful to me, but I accept that it us not everyones background noise of choice.

Stick to Family friendly venues and you won't have to feel guilty/outraged/mildly peeved that you are getting the evil eye from people just wanting a relaxing time.

[kenny]

A Thorn...
Yes of course and I respect your right to do so. Which is why I wouldn't do it. Really why do the seats recline in the first place?

Anyway, No need for name calling or insulting my perfectly trained children. I haven't insulted you.

Most people on this board are sensible enough - the only obvious things I would like to add is respect others, and a reminder for those that know and note for those that have yet to find out, that your perspective changes when you have kids.

[Strap]

Send them down the mines or up chimneys, anywhere if fact where I am not.

They only become interesting when they can hold a conversation, and that's beyond pretty much any of the ones I am unfortunate enough to know.

Even my two only speak in grunts, despite having to spend near on £90K in a total of 6 years of University between them!

Boy are they in for a shock when they graduate!!

Bless 'em!

[Isabel]

I wish it was only my holidays that were ruined by other people's children! I let my home and bought another flat (in this climate) because I couldn't cope with the noise of toddlers in a block of flats! You can't even complain, it's horrible - and yes, the risk is worth the peace. Have only just managed to get off prescribed Valium.

[Richard Adams]

I also understand what the author is trying to say. I've had a good upbringing from considerate parents who were nice enough to take me on many foreign holidays when my sister and I were growing up. I just cannot understand what has changed in a few short years. We were respectful, interested in taking advantage of the different environment and exploring and I don't believe disrupted anyone's holiday. Now every time I go on holiday with my wife we are disturbed constantly from people who seem to think they have a right to do whatever they and their children want, whenever they want, however they want, with the excuse being, well we're a family with kids. Most of the time there kids are pig ugly, stupid little brats that you just know are going to end up on a council estate spawning more of the same. One of the reasons I left England to live in Europe was to escape these little animals who made me feel unsafe walking down the street and now they are exporting them two weeks at a time to where I got to relax from the hard work I do during the rest of the year. Kids should be put in the same category as football fans. They should only be allowed out of the country to places where normal people go when they can prove that they are well behaved responsible little people.

[Ian]

What difference does the occasional bratty kid make anyway when the grown-up vacationers are a bunch of whining, petulant, ill-mannered, slobbering, sometimes-puking, torso-thumping, buffet-hogging, cackling, jostling rubes?

[Richard]

If only it were as simple as great parenting=perfectly behaved children! Few of the people being unbeliveably vindictive about children actually say whether they are parents themselves. I challenge any parent to say they have never been deeply ashamed and embarrassed by the behaviour of their little angel(s). After becoming a parent myself I have become so much more tolerant of other people's children (well most of them anyway..).

[Diana]

Ah, Justin , may your life continue to be so wonderful that the worst things you can say about children is that some have parents who like wooden flooring and others aren't packed into Chelsea tractors of a morning. Neither of which are particularly relevant to the question of whether children ruin holidays or not.

[Jackie Harris]

On long flights children should be chloroformed, put into straight jackets and hung upside down from meat hooks in the baggage compartment. Other people's hideous brats have make long flights unbearable. Child ticket prices should be double that of a normal adult fare - I don't see why my full price fare should subsidise the fare of a tiny being that makes life miserable for everyone else.
Keep your children at home and go to Butlins holiday camps until they are trained to behave.

[Justin]

Every parent will comment that their children are perfect angels on holiday in the same way they will think their children are beautiful. Even if they are well behaved it misses the point that the article wasn't written specifically about their children, but of children and their parents behaviour in general. My upstiars neighbours had wooden floors and when I complianed about their children running around above my bedroom at 7 on Saturday and Sunday mornings I always got the reply that they were children and needed to play. That being true they should have got up and taken them to the park. I'm also regularly held up on the way to the station in the morning by mothers walking with their children spread across the pavement holding hands like a string of paper men.
The main problem is that a lot of couples with children become absorbed in their family unit and are oblivious to anyone else around them and the impact their behaviour has. Children are children and can't be blamed for the way they behave its the parents responsibilty to teach them of their social responsibilities and to be thoughtful to others. That this has become unfashionable is evident in the behaviour of many teenagers who will agressively attack anyone who dares ask them to curb their behaviour in public as if they have a right to behave exactly as they please.

[Helen]

The issue is not the children. It is the often sadly ineffective parenting of said children. If you want to go on holiday as a family, then you have to take responsibility for your children and do the holiday TOGETHER. If you want to relax and unwind, then leave your children with a babysitter or grandparents for a few days and go to a spa, or go to dedicated 'family resort' where there are trained and responsible people who can run childrens programmes, do not expect to be able to relax and unwind without first making sure that you have cared for your childrens needs. You had the children and therefore you need to accept that until they are old enough to be left alone to act sensibly and responsibly, you need to put their needs before your own - that is what it means to be a parent.

[Mark]

I shouldn't be surprised by the pathetic whingers complaining about child-friendly places. In Britain children are second-class citizens. Is it any wonder that Britsih children are some of the unhappiest in Europe? So sure, compain about them, make comments like 'should be seen and not' heard etc.. Your reward will be a bunch of hoodies pummeling you senseless one of these days. Of course, I won't be there to lend you a hand. I'll be off in a 'child friendly' country enjoying the benefits of a decent society that values all of its members.

[Adam]

I despise of peoples children, if those children are not kept under control. There is a growing trend for parents to just not disipline the kids anymore from fear of reprisals from the state, or other people.

I've had a number of cinema visits ruined by kids running around or talking or shouting. Not to mention kids running around shops and just plain annoying other people.

I think this issue will go away when parents can actually control and disipline their kids correctly.

[Sarah]

Its not the children that bother me as some of them are well behaved and actually make the atmosphere better! The problems occur with the parents who are adament that this is 'my holiday too', so leave them to run wild. I resent both the effect that this has on others around them and the morality of the example that they set, that life is what 'you' can get out of it even if it is to the detriment to others. It is that attitude that has led to the social and cultural problems that we have today and that my generation are having to contend with. Its time for people to take full responsibility for their actions. If choose to have children your choice is simple you either take responsibility for them and their behaviour home and away or keep them at home. Live with the consequences, dont force them onto others.

[A Thorn]

Kenny @08.24. And if you sit in front of me and recline your seat, i shall be happy to do unto you what you will have your brats do unto others. How long before they are in possession of ASBO's I wonder. You really are an idiot!

[UT]

Exotic, long-haul holidays are totally wasted on young kids. Children want something completely different out of a holiday than parents. They are most happy with what they know and where they have been before. Go camping to a beach side campsite and you will have spent half the money but had loads of fun and nobody cares if they run around making noise. You can have the exclusive holiday once they have grown up and don't want to travel with you any longer. Think of the money you save!

[mumoftwo]

RH (and Jo, why do I think you are the same person...) even my three year old knows not to kick the seat in front and I have no difficulty enforcing this, so why tar all parents with the same brush? Funnily enough, I've never had anyone kick my seat. Even mummies wouldn't like that. But they never do that to me...must be your vibes.

[ljs]

We make a point of going on holiday as soon as the Scottish school holidays start. It means minimal exposure to whining English brats.

[RH]

Why do parents not control their kids behaviour?
I've lost count of the number of times I've been on a flight seated in front of some brat who just loves to kick the back of my seat. The parents do nothing about it. Not even when I turn around and politely ask them to stop their child from doing it.
It's poor parenting that makes some holidays with children painful.

[Jo]

I am fed up of having to deal with people's misbehaved children. Parents seem to think that it's fine for their brats to run riot & everyone else has to deal with it as 'they're only children'.

[mumoftwo]

I've just got back from a two week holiday with my two small girls. On the three hour flight they were impeccably behaved. Shame I couldn't say the same about the 'lads' we sat next to, who managed to down eight vodkas each in two hours before the flight attendant stopped serving them. I don't think they are representative of all British males, nor think that all men under 40 should be prevented from travelling. Why would anyone think the same about children?

[Sarah]

Disneyland is - to me - hell on Earth. I wouldn't go there at all, ever.

I have an 8 year old son and my partner has an 11 year old son and a 16 year old daughter. Sadly we have not been able to afford a holiday yet, but as soon as we can we'll be off somewhere where the weather is nice and we can do activities together and explore the different culture.

I am an old-fashioned parent though. Like my partners' 16 year old daughter tells me "the trendy bus didn't stop at yours". I think she means it affectionately.
As an old-fashioned parent I expect my kids - and stepkids - to show good manners & consideration for others. I also expect to come home from any "family" holiday absolutely knackered. It's a holiday for the KIDS. For the parents it's an experience!

[Mike]

Ah 'child friendly' - somewhere that parents can dump any responsibility for their feral children, any hotel or restaurant where adults go for a civilised pleasure turned into a playground for screaming 'kids' (horrible word used by parents who seem to think they have given birth to a goat - look it up in a dictionary if you have one).
In continental Europe if you visit a hotel or restaurant and find it a nightmare you can guarantee there will be an English family around somewhere!

[DONTBLAMETHEKIDSSHOOTTHEPARENTS]

This has nothing to do with hating kids, it's about hating the selfish, ill-mannered, inconsiderate self-involved gits who spawned them. I was recently on a ski holiday in Val d'Isere, where a group of parents thought it was acceptable to use the hotel hallway as their own personal creche. They had their children running up down the corridor, banging on doors and generally doing the things kids of that age are likely to do. I don't blame the kids, they don't know any better. The parents however should, but unfortunately as soon as their kids are born all social niceties go out the window. As far their concerned the world from that moment onwards rotates around their children. Everyone else is supposed to understand that, and woe betide anyone who has the temerity to not agree.