Pound-for-pound rankings, June 2008

Doing a pound-for-pound list is generally fun, because you get to rant your own opinion non-stop with no one to answer to. What I notice about most of these lists that pop up around the world is that it seems almost impossible to get dropped from some of them. How on earth is Ronald "Winky" Wright still in all those American top tens? The last I heard, he was talking about taking part in some Florida branch of cage fighting.
The retirement (for the moment) of Floyd Mayweather Jr has thrown this debate wide open. In my last list, in November, I had Joe Calzaghe at 2 and Manny Pacquiao at 3. Since then Calzaghe's win over Bernard Hopkins I would rate as better than Pacquiao's dodgy decision over Juan Manuel Marquez.
My view is that Miguel Cotto is the world's best boxer right now, although he probably needs a few more wins to prove that.
Comments, debate and your own top tens, as always, are very welcome

1. Joe Calzaghe (last list, Nov '07, No 2)
Personally I think Joe has now gone slightly over his peak, but there was no doubting the way he came back from a dreadful first round to beat Bernard Hopkins - even if Hopkins has not stopped whining about it. One final fight against Roy Jones Jr would be his wish. A bout with Kelly Pavlik would be some event, but don't think that Calzaghe is the only person ruling that out. Jack Loew, Pavlik's trainer, has been shouting the odds about Pavlik beating Calzaghe to be a three-weight world champion, but would he be so keen for Pavlik to face Calzaghe at light-heavyweight, 15lb above his normal fighting weight? I doubt it.

2. Manny Pacquiao (3)
Talking of slightly past his peak, Pacquiao, pictured left, showed plenty of signs of vulnerability when he got the benefit of the judges' decision over Juan Manuel Marquez. A win over David Diaz for the WBC lightweight title would be a big boost to his legend, but a fight against a strong light-welterweight like Ricky Hatton seems somewhat risky for a boxer who won his first world title at flyweight.

3. Miguel Cotto (10)
I think Cotto, pictured on the right, looks absolutely awesome. The move up to welterweight from light-welterweight seems to have suited him very well, as he looks stronger and quicker. He fight this month with Antonio Margarito is an absolute classic in the making, although I can't see Cotto losing to anyone - Floyd Mayweather Jr included. Already holds wins over three former and five future world champions.

4. Juan Manuel Marquez (6)
I thought he got swizzed for the second time against Pacquiao in his last fight, in March, when he lost a split decision, having been robbed for a draw in their first fight in 2004, despite having been knocked down 3 times. Due to face Joel Casmayor next as he chases a third fight with Pacquiao.

5. Chris John (4)
The WBA featherweight champion has a big exclamation mark on his record with his 2006 win over Juan Manuel Marquez. That took place in Indonesia, so Marquez did what many Americans have done when getting back from Europe and said he got conned. But that holds little water. However, he needs to entice a few more big names to face him.

6. Kelly Pavlik (-)
The world middleweight champion looks a very good, all-round boxer - powerful, tough and with an excellent jab. He's an intelligent, nice guy too. While the win over Gary Lockett will have done little to enhance his reputation in the ring, if he doesn't get to face Joe Calzaghe, fights with Arthur Abraham or Felix Sturm look crackers.

7. Wladimir Klitschko, pictured left (7)
His win over Sultan Ibragimov unified the IBF and WBO heavyweight titles, but did nothing for his reputation worldwide. Tony Thompson next - that won't do anything for his standing either.

8. Israel Vazquez (8)
Came out best (marginally) from three thrillers with Rafael Marquez and also ground down Jhonny Gonzalez. If he isn't the best fighter in the world, there are few more exciting.

9. David Haye (-)
The win over Jean-Marc Mormeck was special, the win over Enzo Maccarinelli was spectacular. I am sure he has the speed and power to make a dent in the heavyweights, but does he have the stamina?

10. Nate Campbell (-)
When you get fed up with Nate Campbell bragging, just go look on YouTube at his bout with Robbie Peden for some light entertainment. In fairness to Campbell, he has probably been told that a big mouth will get him some big fights, and there was no denying the quality of his wins over Juan Diaz and Matt Zegan. Joan Guzman is probably next, then Amir Khan.

Just missed out (in no particular order): Bernard Hopkins, Ricky Hatton, Rafael Marquez, Juan Manuel Lopez, Antonio Tarver, Chad Dawson, Mikkel Kessler, Arthur Abraham, Oscar De La Hoya, Antonio Margarito, Joel Casamayor, Juan Diaz, Edwin Valero, Joan Guzman, Celestino Caballero, Omar Narvaez, Daisuke Naito, Ivan Calderon, Cristian Mijares

Comments

[John Orford]

Manny wasn't at full strength for Marquez, as he had trouble making the weight. His convincing win against Diaz at +5lb shows his true quality. Hatton would be a fine match.

[Jerry B]

As a boxing Analyst, I believe Pacquiao is a pound for pound fighter; Joining the elite weight of boxers and with a spectacular record from Flyweight belt to Lightweight, He is a LEGITIMATE King for the P4P Lists; Any boxer who fought the best fighters in his generation and won is the KING.
4 Belts in 5 Divisions, Pacquiao is undoubtedly the BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD OF BOXING.

[JD from hoeno]

I like Pavlik but I don't think he deserves to be on a list like this yet. Juan Manuel Marquez on the other hand could easily replace him there. I think he is a better fighter than Manny Pacuiao-who I also like, don't get me wrong-and I think since many of us feel he beat pacquiao once or even twice, he has every bit the right to be on this list as Pacman.

[Manny Fashakin]

Pacman is no. 1! No ifs or buts. Barring a Mayweather comeback, he's going to hold that top spot for a long time if he stays in form.

[Ron Lewis]

Absolutely it would. Pacquiao looked a man on the slide in his second fight against Marquez, on Saturday he looked brilliant - and so quick. Anyone who can win a world title at flyweight and one at lightweight has to be very special.

[Phill Arrowsmith]

I wonder if last night's fight would make you rethink your top two Ron? Okay Diaz is hardly a great champ but he is a decent pressure fighter with a great heart and for Manny to beat him up so conclusively after yet another step up in weight is simply amazing. If the Pac-Man makes one more step up and beats a good light-welter (Ricky Hatton for example) then he would go right to the top of the all time list in my opinion.

[bryn roberts]

calzaghe is running from the phenom- do me a favour!
joe has never run from or ducked an opponent, think back to that night in the men arena when the yanks sent their phenom over. that in my oppinion was one of the best displays of boxing i have ever seen, belive me that was six years of frustration of opponents ducking calzage at his best dished out to lacy that night.
joe is past his best now, but would beat pavlik no problem. i would love the fight to go ahead just to shut the calzaghe doubters up. and if the fight does go ahead and calzaghe wins- trust me he would, who does he have to beat then to prove himself? frotch? LOL, or perhaps a tag team of jones jr and tarver!- joe you have nothing to prove to the boxing world, imagine the hype that would surround joe if he was english or american- its a bitter world we live in!!!

[Fino]

Manuel Marquez lost to Pacquiao, because he fights "salto" style (playing it safe style). With an experienced eye, one can see it. The judges saw it, and no amount of courage after the fights, can change the decisions on Marquez.
If he wants to win against Pacquiao, he should take the risk, and face Pacquiao like a real Mexican.

[Ron Lewis]

With respect Roy, I can't see where all this anti-Calzaghe feeling comes from. Firstly, let's get something straight, Joe doesn't slap. The perceived wisdom that he does comes from someone giving him the rather amusing nickname "Slappy Joe", but he punches with the knuckle part of the glove. Sometimes the punches he lands are just taps, but he has developed a style based around speed and the fact that he has had chronic hand and wrist problems since he was a teenager, so can't put his full weight behind all his shots. The remarks from Jack Loew, Pavlik's trainer, are just pathetic. Pavlik is a good, but very raw fighter, who se best wins were over Jermain Taylor, who had rather blown his reputation in his fights against Cory Spinks and Kassim Ouma.
I remember sitting down in Berlin once with Arthur Abraham and he said how much he rated Calzaghe and loved his style. He made the point that he mixes soft punches with hard shots, confusing the opponent or lulling him into the feeling that he could just walk through the punches. Yes, Hopkins landed the better single shots in their fight, but no way did he win. He won I think two of the last eight rounds on my card - including a round where he took a dive, claiming a low punch,to buy himself time and upset Calzaghe's rhythm. Boxers don't lose that many rounds and win.
Kessler is a top fighter and don't fall into that winning in Europe is nothing compared to winning in the US bit. Look what Arthur Abraham did to Miranda last night. He did better than Pavlik did against him.
Andre Berto looks fantastic, but let's seem him fight someone good first. I'd pick Cotto, Margarito and Williams over him right now.
Regarding Joe's position at No 1, it's quite difficult because I thought Pacquiao lost his last fight, so I find it difficult to justify anyone else being No 1.

[Roy]

Bernard Hopkins is a one -punch-at-a- time shell of the fighter he use to be. And Joe Calzaghe looked mediocre against Hopkins -- who by the way DID land the more meaningful punches. Joe's numerous slaps to the side of the head were NOT enough in my book to spell Joe The Legend Killer. No way. I also believed long ago that Jeff Lacy was highly over-rated. As to Mikkel Kessler, being 40 and O in Denmark doesn't hold a candle to being 21 and 3 in the USA against really tough fighters. Sadly the super mid division is slight on talent. It sure aint the welterweight division. To bad there are no Andre Berto at super middle. Then we'd see Joe really tested for once. Now Joe Calzaghe wants Roy Jones Jr. Another burned out shot fighter who is nothing compared to who he once was. Sorry but I can't put Joe in the number one seat as p for p champ. If Cotto beats Margarito, then Miguel is the undisputed p for p champion.

[Quartz]

I gotta dispute Cotto so high. I thought Mosley beat him.
I am pleased that you rank Marquez; like yourself I thought he beat Pacman both times.

[Phill Arrowsmith]

I have to completely agree with David on this one. The name Chris John is actually one of those regularly used to separate actual boxing fans from blokes who watch Ricky Hatton every now and then. Nobody who is a boxing fan would question who he is or his place in this list even though most of us are certain that he'll lose when he leaves home. Also, lightweight is the new welterweight in my opinion and will have an amazing 18 months or so IF they really try to find the true champ.
I would certainly question Haye's lowly position though. Mormeck was a class act, if not a big 'name' - although I'm sure ability is more important than fame. Macarinelli was a very well respected champ on a great run. Add to them hard-as-nails Fragomeni, all sandwiching a knockout against a world ranked Heavyweight and you have a serious boxer. In that time Hatton, who I adore by the way, had a career defining victory against an old Tszyu and then a few struggles against good but not great/name boxers. He was then outclassed against Mayweather. None of these fights are in any way better than Haye's apart from Mayweather and losing against a great, while there's no shame in it, can't be a reason for a higher ranking.

[David Martin]

I must protest at the comment posted by Jamie below. That post must be one of the most ill-informed passages I've ever has the misfortune to read.

1) Cotto although a great fighter, has yet to fully establish himself as an equal to Pacquiao and even Calzaghe, he not quite reached that level although I do expect him to do so.

2) Hatton is to use Apollo Creeds words fights great but is not a great fighter. He is limited in his defence and shot array. He is a very good fighter but not elite. Whereas Haye is the undisputed cruiserweight champion of the world, Hatton although the linier (Ring) champion with his victory is yet to fully clan out his division hence his fight with Maliganaggi, and despite his recent defeat his avoidance of Witter.

3) Lightweight a weak division, it surely rivals the welterweights as the deepest division, Campbell, Diaz x2, Guzman, Katsidis, Khan, Pacquiao, Marquez (possibly), Casamayor and Romanov to name but a few

4) Chris John is a 44-0 slick boxing world champion, who admittedly has difficulty in leaving his home country is a respected champion and boxer.

[Nik Wheatley]

Brilliant article and a big shame that Pavlik wasn't higher profile a year or so earlier - maybe the pressure then would have been building for a Calzaghe clash sooner.

Personally I think the top 6 are a country mile ahead of everyone else but with Calzaghe/ Pacquiao and Marquez all nearing the end I think this could be a very interesting list to revisit 12 months from now.

Does anyone expect to see a few British faces there or there about soon? Khan? Haye (higher up)? Mitchell? Brook? Murray?

Exciting times for the sport ahead!

[Cleveland]

Calzaghe is running from the phenom.

Pavlik has the best KO percentage in Middleweight Championship history which means he's the greatest KO artist in the history of a division littered with the names of Hagler, Monzon, Leonard, LaMotta, Robinson, Griffith, Fullmer, Greb, Ketchel, Fitzsimmons... etc.

The legitimacy of his best ever KO percentage lies in the record of his opposition in his last 8 fights (Jermain twice)... 214 wins 15 losses. What's most important to note is that 6 out of 7 of those opponents had never been KO'ed -Pavlik KO'ed all of them.

[jamie]

Cotto is number 1 despite no superfight to confirm this. calzaghe 2 because his record is imperious but lacks great fighters in their primes! haye should be replaced by hatton as haye hasn't won a fight against a true world name despite ricky's defeat to pbf! campbell is a champion in a weak division and wud lose 2 khan and who knows about chris john...who? good article tho!