We're not all cheese-eating, surrender monkeys y'know

Maybe it's just me but of late I've developed a sophisticated, relaxed view of adultery, started drizzling my fish and chips with olive oil, and started driving on the other side of the road. Ohmigod I'm turning into a European. I know this because John O'Sullivan in a robust article on Iran in The National Review says this:

the Brits are developing a quasi-pacifist European sensibility on military affairs. They are “entering Europe” psychologically as well as economically.

In the same place Victor Davis Hanson says this:

We admire speaking softly and carrying a big stick, while deploring speaking loudly and carrying a  small stick, but the British apparently are both speaking softly and carrying a small stick. This incident is sort of a scraping off the veneer of a generally known, but little discussed truth: that the U.K. has become often not the exception to, but the nexus of, a new sort of European thinking antithetical to the U.S.

It's a crass trait of the American Right (and, in O'Sullivan's case, those Brits in America who've gone native) to lump all of Europe - from France to Poland - together as one single cheese-eating, surrender monkey entity. You'd have thought that Iraq might have taught US conservatives that "Abroad" is a little bit more complicated than that.

Robbie Millen

Comments

[Candadai Tirumalai]

Some of the English who stay for any length of time in the United States become even more confirmed in their Englishness. Others do "go native." A good example of the latter is an Englishman in Texas who wrote recently that there are probably more guns in Texas than there are people in England and yet he has never felt safer.

[James Geoffrey]

It is not so much a lack of appreciation of the complexities that Robbie Millen suggests in his comments, as it is shock at the apparent powerlesness of Britain and the British public's and government's seeming indifference to that powerlessness that stuns Americans.

We are accustomed to thinking of Britain - even after the glory days of empire - as a militarily strong and diplomatically influential nation that it would be dangerous to antagonize. A strong Greece to our Rome as it were. To see it hobbled by Iran with such impunity undermined that impression of Brtain's formidability. To see Britain unable to rally the support of others - let alone its own people and armed forces - in defense of its position - especially when it was so clealy in the right under international law, suggests a dimunition of London's power and world role almost breathtaking in its dimensions.

"If allies are strong may they not help me out of all I own? If allies are weak am I not best alone?" as the old song goes. The view over on this side of the Pond is that Britain has probably stored up for itself a whole heap of trouble for the future - it can now be seen that Her Majesty's Government and military can be challenged, and indeed, attacked, without consequence. For the United States, the UK is no longer a partner of comparable capabilities, albeit on a smaller scale, but yet another dependent for our taxpayers and armed forces to defend.

The recent news that the Royal Navy is about to be largely scrapped just adds to the overall bad impression. The point is made: Britain's days as a (post-imperial) world power are finished. It is not a world power, it is not a medium power "punching above its weight," it is not a power at all. It is merely a pawn in other power's games.

Britain got her sailors back today - and we Americans celebrate with you and are relieved for you - but the blunt truth is, from start to finish, their fate was in the hands of everyone BUT the British Government and armed forces. The sailors are coming home, but Britain had nothing to do with saving her own.

This was resolution, but not a victory.

[Oh *come on*]

And when China held those American airmen, after the Americans crashed in Chinese airspace, what, Jim, did the US govt do? Exactly what the British one has just done: it calmly talked the other side down.

[ian wheaton]

The idea that we here in the UK were at the mercy of the Iranians is ludicrous. We prefer the discreet covert approach to matters such as the recent incident involving the kidnapped sailors. What you Americans appear to fail to understand is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. You can go in the front door inhuge numbers and receive a hostile welcome, or you can send in a small unit through the back door unnoticed and achieve the same result. I cannot imagine a world leader giving our navy personnel back without the prospect of an S.A.S. bayonet up his backside. All's well that ends well.

[Kara Swart]

The release was delayed a bit. Suit fittings take time..

[George Arndt]

If the hostages had drawn their guns, they would have died. Apparently the right wing in my country wanted them to commit suicide by proxy. Not to mention spark a war between Britain and Iran. This must be part of the “culture of life” the American right likes to promote..

[mary kirk]

Geo Arndt,Guess presenting a formal,respectful,distance to their Iranian captors,volunteering just the basics,name,rank and serial number was too difficult for 1/3 of the Iran15 hostages.How long was it before captive Faye was televised copping the smoke with her hair scarf in place? 24,48...HOURS!! How is it that MOST of the Iran15 hostages managed to refrain from slobbering allover their Iranian kidnappers?

[Tino Gonzalez]

Never mind what Americans think of Britain, their views of the World at large are simply rednecked most of the time. I recently read somewhere that any one with English accent is considered to be "brilliant" over there!! How ever, how would Britain at large feel if the Iranian Navy where patrolling waters just a few miles from the Solent? That is the question that really matters.

[colin]

What about the American Embassy people held hostage for over 400 days ,starting in 1979,in Iran?How did the U.S. government handle that.

[Mike]

Well most Europeans ARE cheese eating surrender monkeys - I write as an Englishman ( do not call me British anymore , please). The EU is a basketful of corruption and NATO is a busted flush. The German NATO troops in Afghanistan are not allowed to fight and only come out in daylight ! The French and Austrians sell weapons to our enemies who then murder our troops. Belgium is a corrupt country with venal politicians, full of paedophiles. Anti semitism is again de rigeur in Europe.

The only thing that appears to unite most European countries is dislike of the US - the country that saved Europe in WW1 and WW2, the Cold War and is now doing so in the War Against Terrorism.

Europeans have just lost the will to defend their Civilisation - just go to many of English our inner cities and look.

Self loathing liberal Americans will realise that they have to defend themselves even if the ghastly Hilary wins the next election. As one USophile I say 'God Bless America' and thank God you are around !

[Horace]

I think that what most Americans are concerned about, is the fact that the British navy failed to protect the boarding party with air cover, especially when they were so close to Iranian waters. Our procedures are to provide an armed helicopter, hovering in the vacinity to counter hostile actions. The Iranians would never have intervened in the mission had the captain had a contingency plan for Iranian hostility. If Britain cannot protect its boarding parties, it should withdraw from the U.N. mission.

The fact that your troops appeared to be cooperating with their captors, and profusely thanked and appologized to their captors, while expressing admissiions of guilt in front of millions of television viewers, was disturbing as well.

[Mark Noethen]

England was tested and has failed miserably. Iran will test you again, sooner rather than later, and the next time it will not involve a handlful of sailors. What the world saw is an example of a declining military power that lacks the military and political will to defend itself.

[J. Fiennes]

I love reading posts by British people who have to knock the US. Obviously, they haven't read about the number of British who land on our shores with no intent of returning to the UK. Perhaps they should take a ride around Denver, Colorado and talk to the innumerable Brits who are putting down roots here. Or are these immigrants just "rednecks" who don't understand the softer, more compliant leanings of their countrymen they left behind ?

[TS]

Most Americans have never travelled abroad, let alone met an Iranian. I therefore find the hatred expressed for Iran(ians) quite perplexing and unjustified. Why are many Americans so keen to bomb and kill people they know so little about?

[Killshot]

Most of the anti-American comments from British liberals and appeasers have some logic to them: it is indeed easier to "talk them down", to take one's humiliation graciously, and to roll over time and again. Were it not for America's lead in Iraq--notwithstanding the mistakes and difficulties--English soil would be inexorably closer to being part of the Caliphate. You have no idea how utterly Islamic you are becoming over there. It will be interesting to see how you like it when women's rights disappear, clarions sound through the streets as a call to prayers, and tolerance for gays et al disappears. Your Islamization is in progress--like the frog that slowly boils in the pot before he knows he is hopelessly cooked. Keep talking while you cook.

[Matt]

The article is fundamentally misguided, because, in common with many many Europeans, the author fails to recognize that good cheese is also increasingly popular in America. In fact, it is really high time that Europeans put aside their outdated prejudice against American cheese--that American cheese is all bland, mass-produced schlock.

I am an American who appreciates gourmet cheese, and I can tell you that there are great artisan cheeses being produced in dairy regions of the United States such as Vermont and Marin County, north of San Francisco. (The latter has even been dubbed "America's Normandy.") Some of these cheeses are of export quality, and I have no doubt that in time they will begin winning prizes at international cheese shows held in Europe, just as California wines also hold their own on the international market.

[Dr MaryAnn Wimsatt]

I am an American citizen who has lived in London and traveled frequently in England. I am also a university professor who teaches a course about modern war.--I write to say that the UK and other EU nations should vigorously oppose the US's drive toward military supremacy and world domination. If they don't, they're toast.

[Brian Lewis]

For the last four years, the USA and Britain have been making very grave mistakes in international affairs that good governments should not make. That is the crux of our present problems and we might hazard a guess that Bush and Blair still do not know what to do about it! We really must not undertake operations without being very sure that we will win! We can be pretty sure that the Captain of the Cornwall will not be court-marshalled, but in other times Admiral Byng was!

[Alan Denisot]

Perhaps we should all try to avoid generalizations - I personally find it offensive when Brits confidently issue broad statements about "Americans" and I imagine you must feel the same when Americans say something about "Europeans".
And just a note: perhaps Americans are a bit suspicious of the Iranian "government" because of past experience?