Why the Archbishop is wrong about Sharia

The Archbishop of Canterbury is often hard to follow - by which I mean hard to comprehend. But when a sentence peeks through the fog and makes itself understood, I frequently find I disagree with him.

Not long ago I attended a lecture by him about freedom of expression and when asked to describe it later I said: "It was too obscure for me to know when to heckle."

I do not have the same difficulty with today's extraordinary remarks about Sharia law.

He has just told the BBC that the adoption of certain parts of Sharia law is "unavoidable". He believes that if we do not adopt it, there will be a tension between the cultural customs of parts of the community and the requirements of the state.

Well, first of all this adoption is not unavoidable in the literal sense - we can avoid it by not doing it.

What makes this country a liberal, peaceable democracy is that we all live under the same laws, we are equal citizens before the law.

As I argued in my column yesterday, this is a Christian country, even if (unbelievably) the Archbishop himself wishes it were not so. Everyone is entitled to worship any religion or none but this under British law and with due respect for the way that British traditions hold in public space.

Fortunately these traditions include remarkable tolerance for others, a welcome and interest in the practice of others and great generosity of spirit. But such values are not abstract one, conjured out of nowhere. They are rooted in this country's history and practice as a Christian nation.

There are any number of places in the world where people can live under Sharia law. This isn't one of them.

Nor should it be. 

Comments

[David Pritchard]

When there is a clear conflict between the majority culture and a minority culture, the majority culture must take precedence. We must have a unified system of laws, determined through democratic (not theocratic) process, and applying to everyone. We must be clear about our common identity, take pride in it, and, yes, be assertive in defending it where necessary. Tolerance is good, but weakness is invariably exploited. Our tolerance is now shading into weakness, and it is time to call a halt. People who don't feel happy with our legal system can take the next plane out of the country.

[Dominic Stockford]

Quite right. our law is utterly opposed to Sharia law - for whether you like it or not our law is based on Christianity, and sharia is based on Islam - and they are fundamentally opposed to one another.

[J]

Talk about taking things out of context. All that's being discussed here is applying Shariah law with regards to marriage as currently muslims effectively have to get married twice. No-one has said anything about apply other parts of the law in the UK.

Watch this thread fill with people venting their well balanced and researched views on Islam etc...

[amit]

I think the Archbishop of Canterbury has gone totally insane if he thinks any good will come from the inclusion of sharia law into the British legal system. It will only allow them to find loop holes to manipulate the justice system to their favor. It will also cause discrimination between races as some will be treated under sharia law whilst the rest of us are treated under secular law. I think the archbishop should stop over indulging in the red wine and get back to reality.
However I am deeply offended when you refer to this as a Christian country. I totally disagree with this. I feel Britain is a multicultural nation in the truest terms. I myself am a Hindu living in Britain and I would regard this country as anything but Christian. Everyone is given the opportunity to flourish and express their religious views so how can you possibly band it under one religion. Historically India is predominantly Hindu orientated but you will never see an Indian say it is a Hindu country. I think certain people with such narrow minded views should learn a few things from the Indians.

[Chris]

Im sorry I agree the Archbishop is talking codswallop.

You don't need to introduce Sharia law into the Uk for Muslims. Muslims who want to live by Sharia law are free to do so in this county, no one stops them. If this ridiculous proposal was introduced it would negatively affect those people most in need. Those who don't want themselves to live by Sharia law but are forced to do so by family.

Further if it was introduced which law would take precidence old UK law or Sharia?

I have no issue with Immigration but if you want to live and work in this country you do it by their/our rules. Don't like it....Don't come here!

[James Campbell]

Hi Daniel,

You make some good points but I'd like to add a few.

In my opinion the Archbishop of Canterbury is one of the most intelligent political and spiritual leaders in the world.

What you may sometimes perceive as incoherence is not my experience.

I also highly respect the fact he is a current, clear presence within the British media, as opposed to some other political or religious leaders who practice political absenteeism or do so but in a less forthright manner (ie, they speak, but dont say much).

For a Times columnist, I think you are being a bit disrespectful to a man who clearly has his head screwed on properly and has a lot to offer.

Moving on to his point about Sharia law, i whole-heartedly agree with you on our laws being 'rooted in this country's history and practice as a Christian nation.' Furthermore, I hope that our laws do not change to accomodate our Islamic friends, unless it is in a way which will not affect non-Muslims.

But when you take away the fact that I agree with your ideology, I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be so critical of greater men who you clearly don't understand.

Thanks, James Campbell

[andrew iddon]

This man should not be archbishop - and let's get this into perspective, here - less than 3% of the population is Muslim - We should change our laws to accommodate their supposed sensitivities (I'm sure there are many Muslims who would disagree with the assertion we should allow Sharia to overrule British law, but whatever; the Archbish enjoys speaking on behalf of this small minority, perhaps he should apply to be grand mufti)

[Duns Scotus]

Well said Mr Finkelstein! It is not unavoidable.

[Jonathan story]

Sharia is incompatible with the freedoms we have inherited and developed. Anyone coming to the UK, and living here, has to live by the traditions of the country. The more forthrightly we stand up for those traditions--for instance, innocence before pleading guilty--the easier it will be for people coming to the UK to adapt. They will know what to adapt to.

[RW]

Normally the Archbishop just bumbles along like the saintly old Herdwick sheep he resembles, opening and shutting his mouth like a goldfish, his words of no application whatsoever apart from the pleasure it gives him to utter them, and no-one takes a blind bit of notice, nor should they. But this, this is dynamite under the very foundation of this society - that there is one law and it applies to everyone. No-one may be given the choice of an alternative legal system to which they feel more 'comfortable' 'relating', as Williams would no doubt put it. Citizens who do not accept the law of this land should leave it and go to live in a country where the law is more to their liking.

[Topnfe]

Right On!!

When one can choose the law which he lives by, only anarchy can ensue.

Perhaps I could choose then to cut of the head of anyone who disagrees with me -- something like they do now in Saudi Arabia.

[Becca]

at last, a voice of reason!

[Richard]

I was under the impression he said that our law ought to accommodate those who would seek legal redress in different ways - not that he wanted all women in burkhas and public beheadings. "Nobody in their right mind would want to see the kind of inhumanity that's been associated with some Islamic states and the attitudes to women," he says.

The financial services industry has been trying (and, according to the FT, failing) to accommodate Sharia laws. If someone also wants to be married under different rules, not just "borrow" money, what's the problem - especially if the core national system offers a safety net, a "vanilla" system that guarantees women's rights (for example).

I don't think he's saying we should replace British culture and law with Islamic - he's just saying we ought to find ways to fit it within our system, not leave it way outside.

It's not an easy debate - but I think it's fair of the bish to kick it off.

[john]

The man should get a job as shelf filler in a supermarket in Afganistan. He certainly should not be Head of our Church, he should not even be in Britain if he believes that British Law should be flouted.
I fought for my country and I want my Great Grandchildren to enjoy British law not some islamic doctorin poluting it.
HE SHOULD LEAVE THE CHURCH

[Hussain]

Muslim's may express an opinion in support of living under Shariah law, but there has been and as far as I am aware any attempt by the majority to see this through. It's something we can live without in Britain. So please take into account that this is an opinion expressed by Rowan Williams, and not anything concrete and most likely will not be now or in the future.

[Juanita]

What has happened to England? Where are the Winston Churchills? A lot of students in Britain don`t even know who this great man was! Those who forget their history are condemned to repeat it. Has England gone overboard with political correctness, even telling children in school to not use the terms "mum" and "dad"? Now sharia law is being promoted because no one has the brass "cajones" to stand up against the Islamic radicals who want all western thought and culture wiped out?! Stand up for western ideals!

[Tony Williams]

This man is an insult to the Christian faith, I cannot believe that our Arch Bishop said or even thought these thoughts.

Frankly this man should travel more and see this law in action for himself. If he continues in this way i will become a catholic as it seems their faith is the only one with any principles left in the Christian world.

This man is unfit to lead the Christian church in England and should be replaced. I have never known such anger and resentment amonst my friend and colleagues, what a complete fool this man is.

[Peter Metcalfe]

The Archbishop of Canterbury is an Impressive Clergyman - he looks good until he opens his mouth.

[Barry]

The greatest modern nation and empire has self destructed from within due to socialism and moral relativism. Two generations is all it took to create a country where 25% think that the great and indomitable Churchill was a myth, and 50% think Richard Lionheart never existed.

It was the British who voted for the idiotic leaders who created this disaster, not the rest of the world.

It is to weep.

Perhaps Britain's last great contribution to the world will be as an example of what happens with this type of suicidal policies of immigration and social management, and give the rest of the Western world a chance to save itself.

[ortega]

Another good reason to be catholic.
This can relate to the question of the biggest mistake in british history. Those things do not happen with a Pope.

[Ross W Sargent]

There should be one law in this country for all of its citizens. Many women from Islamic countries that have come to live in Britain, are more than happy to have escaped the cruel inequalities of sharia. The archbishop's foolish and ill-considered pronouncement must fill these women with dread. What was he thinking of? Does he personally hold women in lower esteem than men? If not, why does he acquiesce so pathetically to those wishing to give their misogyny legal status. Unavoidable - what rot. Unacceptable - most definitely

[Clare]

I honestly have no idea why this man has been selected as the Archbishop of Canterbury. I have nothing against Muslims living and practicing in this country. Indeed I do not subscribe to the paranoia about 'Islamic Terror'. But I have no idea why the leader of the Anglican Church seems to have no faith in his own religion. He has gone on record as disputing the Virgin birth, the three wise men, and now he thinks that we should incorporate Islamic law into secular law that was historically based on the Judaic-Christian teachings. This historical legacy means that Britain has a generally tolerant view of practices of other religions. I wonder if has ever thought of influencing those Countries that practice Sharia law to allow the indigenous Christians to worship in peace and security. Sometimes I wonder if the Archbishop beleives in anything. How can he inspire people to follow the Anglican teachings if he is too wishy-washy to believe in them himself, and if he is ready to put at risk this country's Anglican legacy in support of a violent and ruthless Sharia law which many muslims have already fled.
Doesn't the Church of England deserve a leader who is ready to lead?

[Madison]

Shariah law in the MARRIAGE courts of a country that has the highest divorce rates... I think we might just benefit from it.

As for the racist BNP comments being made on this thread: I'm ashamed to be a white British girl because of you sicko's.

[Ross W Sargent]

There should be only one legal system for all UK citizens. Many Muslim women that have come to live in Britain are only too happy to have escaped the inequalities inherent in sharia. The archbishop's foolish and ill-considered statement must fill them with dread. Does he hold women in lower esteem than men? If not, why is he happy to acquiesce in others doing so via a separate legal system? Sharia is not unavoidable but it is unacceptable

[David Gillies]

The idea that introducing judicial apartheid will foster social cohesion is so asinine on its face that one is compelled to check the calendar to make sure it's not April 1st.

Any Archbishop of Canterbury who can make one nostalgic for the days of Carey is clearly not fit for the job. Someone called him the Archdruid of Canterbury: a very apt description.

[Stuart Booth]

The worst thing about this is that, as per Mr Finkelsteins comments the other day, this country seems to be standing by whilst Muslims are taking over the country. Now for a pertinent point, look at your neighbours. How many are Jewish, Druid, C of E, Hindu, Sikh etc? I especially worry about the Jewish amongst us. They have suffered holocaust before, and that is what you are inviting by letting this highly radicalised minority run riot in our country. Most Muslim nations in the Middle East would settle for nothing less than the anihilation of Jews and the complete destruction of Israel.

Now I was brought up C of E and decided to follow the path of Buddhism and so I really do believe in tolerance, but this is madness. We need to root out all of those who would turn our country into "Little Afghanistan" and send them back to the Middle East as soon as possible. If our leaders do not have the spirit for such a thing, then ask Israel to get Mossad to do it.

[Pickwick]

The Archbishop has taken leave of his senses.

[morgan]

My name is not Churchill, but I would be quite happy to take a stand against the tide of Islam that has crept into the UK like a narrow salty inlet, that swirls and eddy;'s to form an inland sea.

Give Islam the cohesion that it seeks in this little bit of Sharia to day, and by the time it takes you to turn around, it has swirled and eddied and created an inland sea of sectarianism that will be almost impossible to dam.

Shut Islam off from the sea by preventing further immigartion, all well and good, but by that time, it will be far too late to stop the erosion of the banks as it creeps, in an ever widening motion, eating into our every waking hour, village street and city alike.

WE do not need fools like Williams to accelerate it, it is quite, and quietly doing that for itself. Already the thin end of the wedge is inserted under the load, leverage is being attended to daily.

We used to call such inroads to our social structure the work of a 5th column, we are well past the 5th, and are now nearer the 10th. And 'he' resides, in his luxurious palace, at the heart of our nation.

[Christopher Hill]

Totally agree with this article. While we may not be a 'Christian' country, as some have pointed out, we certainly have a Christian heritage, and according to the last census, 72% of this country self-identify as Christians (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=954). This is who we are - and if people don't like the Christian basis of our laws and society, then why did they choose to come and live here in the first place? Tolerance is one thing, but it is not fair to expect us to bend our long-held laws and beliefs simply to please a minority.

That this idea comes from the Archbishop of Canterbury, of all people, is quite astonishing.

[Richard]

Juanita - I fear that a little too much "cajones" is what gets us into so much trouble.

No-one (least of all Rowan Williams) is suggesting the elimination of Western culture. Come to that, I doubt very much indeed that any child has been told not to use terms such as mum and dad - those kind of scare stories simply inflame our society.

If western culture is worth fighting for, it's because it has the self confidence to be itself - liberal, open, progressive - without eliminating all other cultures. And in a multicultural world, that means accepting that some people do things differently. Maybe that can be factored into our legal system, maybe it can't. But to discuss it is a long way from surrendering ourselves to cultural slavery.

If a fascist regime came to power here, I'd like to think I'd man the barricades in defence of our historic traditions of freedom. And if anyone was suggesting we force people in this country to cover their faces or only eat certain foods, I'd be equally incensed and motivated to speak out against them.

But no-one is suggesting that. (Well, maybe one or two crazies, although there are plenty more white, Christian crazies who I'd be equally uncomfortable with...) My fear now is that the way the politicians have reacted to Williams comments - frothing at the mouth for the most part, rather than explaining why his suggestions might not be appropriate in a way that acknowledges that some people *do* prefer to live differently - is creating new divisions. If I were a young Muslim wondering whether my beliefs prevented me from being an integrated part of society, the kind of statements we've been hearing this evening might convince me I wasn't. That would be bad for all of us.

[Richard]

By the way, I wonder how Danny feels at being called "the voice of reason" by Becca? They rarely are...

[Paulo]

Sharia law is the law of a cult. Those who wish to live under Sharia law are free to live in any of the numerous 'Islamic Paradises' in the world.

[Dr. Irene Lancaster FRSA]

My views on the subject:

http://irenelancaster.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/02/how-appeasement.html

[Nick Tilley]

As someone who is somewhere between a jew, a presbetrian Scot and a member of the Church of England, I would like to think that all of (us)those, believe in ONE god... a god who is true to all people, what ever their sex.

Sharia Law is fair to neither belief nor sex, and is not compatible with any sort of 'liberal' society,and given our trops and government are fighting a 'war' agaist 'terrorism' i.e.(sharia beliefs), surely we should see a resignation, and an apology to half the world... this statement is a disgrace to the western world,
God Save Us All, this is not an acceptable possition!
Regards
Nick Tilley

[Richard]

Just how two sets of law are meant to 'unavoidably' coexist is not even discussed.
I cannot see why a whole set of laws should all of a sudden 'succumb' to a 'new' set of Sharia Laws. Just who is the bishop talking on beahlf of?

[David]

Daniel,

What about the Beit Din?

[William Hagerup]

Mr Finkelstein,
I believe you are wrong to say that the freedom of religion and tolerance of different ways of life that is part of British culture, stems from Christianity. Rather it has come about in spite of Christianity, through the work of such filosophers as John Locke, David Hume, Francis Bacon etc. THAT is surely also the strongest reason why we must never buy into the Archbichop's deeply flawed reasoning; religion - any religion - must never be the basis for our laws. Rather than putting Islam into British laws we should be making shure we remove any remaining bits of Christian influence that should not be there.

[Nick]

You realise how far this country has fallen when the head of the Church of England starts to promote laws more akin with Nazi Germany than a modern western democracy.
I find his comments obscene and a disgrace...to Muslims as well as Christians in the UK.

[Revd Frank Gelli]

Daniel, I must side with the bearded Druid, for once. (I never do!) He is right. Whenever Shariah law is compatible with British law, there is nothing wrong in legally allowing Muslims voluntarily to follow it.
However, as you yourself admit this is a Christian country, I also believe the Druid should call for Parliament to follow the laws of the Church. Such as Biblical commands against fornication.
Look forward to hearing the Druid demanding that!
Fr Frank Gelli

[Andy]

RE - "Furthermore, I hope that our laws do not change to accomodate our Islamic friends, unless it is in a way which will not affect non-Muslims. But when you take away the fact that I agree with your ideology, I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be so critical of greater men who you clearly don't understand" ~ James Campbell

Interesting, James. You ultimately agree with the article writer, yet you criticize him for "being critical of a greater man who you clearly don't understand". To me, that sounds like - "The Pope is infalible". You either agree with the article writer (which you do), or you don't. You can't have both.

[Christopher Johnson]

One of the many astounding aspects of Dr. Williams' suggestion is his insouciant claim that there would be "choice" in this matter. Because we all know how much "choice" Muslim women have in the area of marriage.

[J. Cline]

Good heavens, I'm so glad the Anglican Church will not be with us very much longer. May schism come sooner rather than later!

Incredible comments from a very daft and irresponsible man. Has he ever been to the Middle East? More precisely, has he tried living there openly as a Christian? He'd certainly be in for a rude shock.

Muslims in their own countries have absolutely no tolerance for Christianity -- why then should a historically-Christian nation have any great forebearance for Islamic ways? And then allowing a foreign and frankly barbarous law system to co-exist for a restive and isolationist minority population?

Have the British completely lost their minds? They are sure to lose their country as well, before too long.

[Colin]

If, as suggested earlier, the Archbishop "has his head screwed on" (and is a magnificent spiritual leader), he will no doubt be aware of Islams "evangelical" trait (world domination).If he reads about Islam scripturaly in the quoran he will also know that muslims are TOLD that they must only live under the dominion of another secular rule of law UNTIL they are able to establish Allahs rule...then they must (the muslims) strive to take over the governance of the people.
These are koranic facts!

By giving foothold to ANY pert of the sharia in this country, we are aknowledging it as a valid justice system, when in fact it is born out of injustice (if you consider it applied to females).To the muslim mind also, by allowing it here we will be in admission of its "worthiness".
Even if this law was to be allowed, the areas it wants to rule is marriage, inheritance, finance, child custody etc...In ISLAM ALL these things are ALL MALE DOMAINS...it means the female will be treated with the same distain as thougg she where in an arab land!THE FATHER is the one who gets custody in islam!
WE protect the female in the uk (which is why we have asylum seekers!)
Females need the uk protection, and even so ill bet if you ask muslims in the uk whether they would want saria you would get a resounding NO THANKS!
The few muslims who claim to be representative of their people will want it of course because it will give these unelected people REAL hold on other muslims.
Islam is creeping, denies the validity of ANY other religion, cannot live alongside any other religion, and despises any other religions....its legal barbarism (even emotional barbarism which is what would come)must NOT be allowed on our soil.
The archbishop of canterbury should be ashamed of himself as a christian, and should be the first to STOP Islamification of our country.
A christian leader should hold fast to the christian faith...not seek to promote other religious laws such as sharia.
The Terrorists will be laughing their heads off at the uk tonight!!!!! Heaven help us all.

[Martin Hime]

Our laws are not based on Christianity. They were developed over 100s of years as part of our free society.
In fact at certain points in our history any law allegedly "christian " was highly suspect.

[Nii]

Sorry it hurts to refer to UK as Christian country rather than multicultural but we immigrants cannot continue to take liberty for licence. Thank God tht the archibishop is not representing all Christians and he should stop being academic but pay due attention to the faith of his forefathers that they fought hard for! Sharia will certainly set back the UK if adopted in any form.

[david gold]

are u not jewish like me daniel?

[Michael Wilson]

When Jamaican migrate to other countries, they first learn the languge, history of the country, the culture of the country, the way of life and how they do things in that coutnry before they migrate. Jamaican realize that if we wish to live and succeed in England we have to live and learn and do things the way the English does. So we don't come to England with a hangup or a problem on our shoulders "I don't like this law, it has existed for a million years but because I don't like it, it should be changed." or "In English History the Anglican church has been the Main church and religion from Henry VIII, I am Muslim or Islam where I come from, I know the British are Anglican for hundreds of years but I want them to Change their religion now because my religion says that for security purposed when I go for a drivers license picture I must still were my scarf over my face, English security, protocol and historic ways don't matter this is the way we do it in the Middle east"
Question How came from where for what to go where to do what". What is eventually going to happen is the English Culture and tradition is going to be lost forever because of political correctness. We should note that in this world we all cant be the same, think the same, act the same and live the same. What makes this world unique is that different nations, different cultures exist and coexist without one nation or group trying to impose their culture and ways of life on others.
NO ONE WILL RECOGNIZE OR FLOCK TO ENGLAND IF IT BECOMES A SHARIA STATE.

[dave johnson]

People like the the PC Chief wizard encouraged and welcomed millions of foreign immigrants to this country, espousing multiculturalism as something uplifting and wonderful. They are what is known in Russia as the useful idiots. Anyone who warned of the consequences of this mad cap idea were shouted down and accused of racism. The chief wizard and his ilk, the useful idiots, have been proved wrong. Multiculturalism is an illusion and mass immigration has proved to be a disaster for this country. The PC brigade cannot bring themselves to admit they are idiots and mass immigration is a stupid idea. Their solution to the problem is to blame the lumpen masses for being intolerant. The chief wizard should leave his palace and live amongst his flock on the sink estates permanently. Maybe then he will finally gain some wisdom and be worth listening to.

[Stephen - Boston, Massachusetts, New World]

Is there an authoritative transcript or written version of the Archbishop's remarks that is also available to web readers? Giving him the benefit of the doubt, at least this reader would appreciate opportunity to understand more of his logic.

[Steve]

What a load of nonsense! The archbishop of Canterbury argues that Sharia law is 'unstoppable'. (ie desirable).
There is one legal system in the UK. It is a fundamental issue. How can you have competing legal systems within one state? Are we really hearing a suggestion that everyone can have their own law? This is a s daft as Christians arguing that UK law should apply in Iran or Turkey. Completely barmy.

[E. Goelen]

Isn't his name Rowan "Atkinson' instead of Williams, at least as an absurd comedian his words would be said in the right perspective. Now they are downright left-wing rubbish. Early retirement please. ASAP.

[eddie]

I think most people are getting confused about this issue..no one asked for sharia law to be enforced in this country..it was the archbishops answer to a questions by a bbc reporter..stop spinning the issues around and getting people angry over nothing

[jerry]

This is nonsense.
We are one people and need one law for all.
I SMELL DISTRACTION.
Who is talking about the expense scandals concerning of MPs. All has been conveniently quietened.

[John]

One should note that outrage over his remarks extend to my household in Nebraska which has never been a British possession. The question is what to do with this curious bishop. Several kings named Henry found admirable solutions of their own. There are two possibilities. Firstly, dispatch several surly knights who wish to draw royal favor who will direct the archbishop to a realm where the writ of sharia law does not run. Or secondly, one could charge him with the illegal coinage of groats, a sole royal perogative, and send him to the tower. The second seems more obscure and British, and therefore,I favor it. Of course, I invite other suggestions including but not limited to making him bishop of Saudi Arabia.

John, Lincoln, Nebraska.

[Leslie-Ann]

Dear people of Britain. While this man, or anyone like him has a platform to speak in your country, be very, very afraid. Just jump on the bobsled and ride the slippery slope to the destruction of western civilization as we know it.

[BillinDetroit]

If Sharia law becomes any part of the law of the land in the UK, where will the Muslims who immigrated there in order to escape that madness go? Of the 3% of the population that follows Islam, likely 2.95% left a repressive nation for the sake of the freedoms and safety guaranteed in England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland but absolutely denied by the religious fanatics (and the politicians and assorted hoodlums posing as such) in their homelands.

It would be the worst sort of injustice to allow Sharia to follow them and even worse, if such is possible, to impose these laws on the Christians in your nation.

Do what you will. But I think that the basic proposal stinks.

[Rohan]

Can an Archbishop be impeached?
I don't recognise the same attributes in this evidently wacky individual that James Campbell does ("a man who clearly has his head screwed on properly and has a lot to offer")! What was that?
Are James and I in distinct and separate universes?

[Jane]

Of course Muslims have to get married twice so does any one.There is a religious bit and a civil bit.

[George]

I cannot believe the hypocrisy of those supporting Sharia Law who are trying to tell us that is is a fair law for everyone. I have lived and worked in many Islamic countries and have seen first hand the way women are treated by this 'just' law!!

[Ben]

Another clear, concise, accurate and well written piece by Daniel.
Perfect!

[Ken]

The appropriately bearded Welsh druid appears to be preparing himself for a place in the Mullahood, so goodbye Lambeth Palace then ... and fast.

[Doug]

We should remember that although our laws are based on Chritian principles - equality, etc - they are inclusive and it does not matter what religion you have or if you have none at all. Sharia is quite different. It is an accurate representation of Islamic beliefs e.g. woman a subject of man, muslims above non-muslims, and this is abhorrent to the British whether they are Chritian or not.

[Akram]

so many people are ready to jump down the archbishops throat, without even actually hearing out what he was actually trying to say. I doubt very much he was calling for imposition of Sharia like the tabloids are scremaing out.
Hear the man out, then judge.

[Phil]

This is an absolute outrage. He is clearly unfit to be a prominent figure of the British public, if he is willing to condone laws that act totally against the core principles of our justice system. Those who live in Britain follow British law, it is an privilege not enjoyed by all to live in a country where all are treated are equal in the eyes of the law. You cannot set aside different laws for different people just because they have a different view on God. If you begin to make "special" laws for people of different cultures it will cascade into an uncontrollable wave of new laws and justice systems, with people claiming they are exempt from one law "just because I'm muslim/Hindu/Jewish etc.". This will lead to a complete breakdown of the concept of justice and democracy. The idea of law is that all people live by one set of rules for the greater good of the population, and that those who break these laws are punished depending on the severity of the crime.

[Peter]

I believe he is wrong - Sharia Law should be imposed on all moslems. With religious police hiding in every Starbucks, to arrest women for sitting with men and beating them until they agree it was there fault.

[J Clarkson]

In the Bible Jesus said: "Sell all you have an follow me." Christ lived on the streets helping the sick and needy; Williams lives in Lambeth palace; In the bible Jesus said: "Let the highest amongst you be as your slave". Christ was the highest, and lived as the lowest; Williams is the highest, but he unlike the slaves lives in Lambeth Palace. IF HE CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HIS OWN LORD'S TEACHING THEN HE NEEDS TO SHUT UP ABOUT SHARIA LAWS AND GO BACK TO LEARNING ABOUT CHRISTIANITY!

[CJR]

I feel the Archbishop is confused about who his loyalties are with. As a leader of the church he should stand for the truth of GOD's word, but it seems he has allowed political correctness etc and the fear of offending people to sway him. By excepting sharia law, even just a small element of it would mean it would give the islamic religion another foothold in our country, which would be a disaster!

[James]

Um. "our law is utterly opposed to Sharia law", eh? What about all the common ground - duty of care, good faith in contract, evidence before conviction? Oh well, we'd better dump those, because we are "utterly opposed to" Sharia.

[Lizzie Kaye]

I think perhaps this has been taken entirely out of context. The Arch Bishop was making a theological point about inclusion and social cohesion in a modern multicultural society. He was not suggesting Sharia Law replace the secular laws of the British legal system, just that certain aspects of Sharia law be incorporated in order to protect British citizens practicing and adhering to muslim faith. Admittedly, a grey area appears with regards to polygamy etc, as illustrated by the interview shown on Newsnight last night.
Secondly, this IS a Christian country, despite the multicultural nature of our society, and that is something that should not be forgotten. Tolerance is an aspect of the Christian faith, as is change.

[John]

Perhaps we should read his full speech before jumping in with comment on it?

[Mike]

In the past ten years under Nulab policies we've seen a creeping Islamification of Britain by a minority group intent on bring sharia law to the country. The politically correct virus that runs through this government has through its multi-culture policies given the go ahead to extreme elements in the Muslim community to demand anything and get virtually anything. Barbaric customs of the sort practiced in Saudi Arabia, Somalia or Afghanistan have already surfaced in Britain whilst the police turn a blind eye.
Most Muslims in Britain DO NOT want sharia law and certainly the indigenous white majority don't either. Just as Henry VIII kicked out the papacy for interfering in matters of state so should the Queen look at disbarring the Archbishop of Canterbury for speaking out like this. His comments just give encouragement to the Muslim extreme elements crusading to turn Britain into a Muslim state and if he had tried to create a racial division he couldn't have done it better.

[aslsw]

To all my fellow posters out there, does the froth hanging from your mouth drip onto the keyboard and interfere when you try to type you comments?

My God (non-sectarian, of course), I can't believe the outcry over this. One bloke expressing a view on something (I confess I haven't read in full). Does the Archbishop run the country? Does he affect the laws? If not, what's the worry.

I do take issue with the first commenter who said "People who don't feel happy with our legal system can take the next plane out of the country." I thought Parliament was filled with people trying to change the legal system. I guess if we ship them all out it will put an end to politicial rorts and scandals!

[THB]

Is Daniel going to demand the closure of the London Beth Din, I wonder?

[Doug]

This clearly illustrates the mess that immigration has caused in this country. Of course immigration has helped our country in some ways. However, the fact that we pander to the needs of these people before thinking about our own culture is ridiculous. Talk of allowing bigamy for Muslim men, banning a children's book because it contained pigs because it might just upset Muslims. Unfortunately a lot of the time these PC Cretins give Islam a bad name. But i agree with the fact that we have had our own culture and laws for hundreds of years and changing them to suit people of different cultures is ludicrous. What would happen if i went to live in Iraq and asked them to adopt some of the laws from my home country - i'd get strung up!!

[KR]

An archbisjop that questions the core beliefs of his own faith and then seeks to introduce someone elses? Whatever next?

Perhaps Dr Williams should check the Gaza police reports for victims of honour killings or find out how many teenage rape victims Iran has executed as major criminals this week before he seeks to impose this on the rest of us.

If Dr Williams is going to get into a Christian pulpit and talk down to the rest of us then he ought to read the manual (Bible) first. He can find one in any bookshop (except those attached to CofE churches and mosques).

[Julie]

Sychophantic bollocks James Campbell - try hard to get an education if you don't have natural intelligence.

[Bob]

Over 2,000 years ago, (at least according to some Jews); God said to Jesus; "My son, you have lost your faith!!!!!

In this day and age, God may say to the Archbishop the same thing!!!!

[Sarah]

The media have a field day with liberal honkies providing soundbites so they can sell more papers......

The media got tired of going on about paedophiles, now they're making a fuss about any quotes vaguely connected to muslims, let's have a few years of muslim-bashing until they decide to jump on some other bandwagon that pays their mortgages.

The whole thing is tiresome. Compounded by "liberal" non-muslims commenting on islam when they don't really know that much about it.

I'm a muslim and I'm white - watch out, she's been brainwashed, is she allowed out of the house on her own?

The UK is a christian country now, but before that it was a pagan country....don't worry the muslim population of 2 million aren't looking to "takeover"...and references to Islamification don't help - whatever that means - how about opting for another term that's more fitting to the liberal trendies trying to "help" muslims integrate. Maybe these liberals and papers can go and kick up as much fuss for jews, hindus, sikhs, pagans etc....muslims don't need all this negative media attention.

[David Johnson]

Whenever I hear comments from this man I cannot but help thinking of the quote by Henry II

[M. Phillips]

I heard with horror and dismay yesterday of the Archbishop's statement that the formal recognition of some parts of Shari'a Law within Muslim communities in the UK is "inevitable" (or "unavoidable"? - pretty much the same thing).

I fully agree that PERSONAL religious belief must be respected and that, to a limited extent, this must be accommodated in terms of an individual's rights (for example, of a doctor not to carry out abortions). However, it is a different matter entirely to suggest that any community be permitted to set up and operate their own recognised legal sub-system whether "religious" or otherwise).

Respecting one-another's differences does not imply formal recognition and acceptance of all different behaviours and practices - most particularly when the preferred behaviour of a minority group is in direct conflict with the accepted norms of a country's social behaviour and the legal framework that has developed from it.

Some basic problems with the recognition of independent legal sub-systems are:

1. All citizens are no longer equal under the Law of the Land, as some will be feel obliged to (or be coerced to) seek redress under their own system rather than under UK law. Citizens may, thereby, effectively have their rights diminished (rather than improved), for example in the case of lesser weight being given to a woman's evidence (than a man's) in a Shari'a court.

2. By the very nature of their desire to establish such systems, the communities are expressing an unwillingness to be governed by the law of the land in which they have chosen to settle. They are seeking to set themselves apart as "other than" (if not "better than") the rest of society.

3. This would work against racial integration, tending to further divide communities along racial and religious lines, rather than helping to unite them.

4. It is impossible to clearly define the scope of matters covered by such independent legal systems, and to police their operation effectively. "Inevitably", complex disputes would arise over what was or was not within their jurisdiction.

5. It is in the nature of such systems to seek to extend their influence, e.g. by the nature of the penalties they impose. "Inevitably", over time their power and scope of influence would increase, along with the extent of recognition that they are afforded. To coin a phrase, the "Thin end of the wedge".

I sincerely hope that the Archbishop will take some serious legal advice, and that for the sake of a truly united British society he will reconsider his views.

[John]

Methinks it's time for a change of Archbishop!

[Jennie]

If you live in Britain, you live under British law. I wouldn't ever expect to wander into another country, and expect to live under the laws i had in Britain there. That's just wrong, morally and legally. So what is all of this talk, when we all know that it will never happen, it's merely been uttered and everyone is appalled even at that. My argument is, if you want to live under Sharia law, live somewhere where Sharia law is in place.

[The Revd James]

When Rowan Williams name was hinted at at being the next Archbishop of Canterbury a number of senior evangelical clergy wrote to the Prime Minister saying that if he were to be appointed, it would be a disaster.
As we know, their views were ignored.
Their opinion however was quite correct.
He has been unable to hold the Anglican Communion together being not orthodox himself.
He is also not politically or media savvy: witness the current debacle re. Sharia Law.
He has been a disaster from start to finish but no senior clergyman will say so. Let us pray that the finish will not be long off. For the Anglican Communion's sake and for the status of the Church of England and Christianity generally.

[Danny Cunnington]

Britian allows it's citizens to follow their own religions. There is no real political pressure for them to do otherwise.

The positive side of multi culturism in a richer and more diverse culture which benefits all.

However for a society to be cohesive it has to have a uniform set of rules.

One of the greatest social advances of the last 200 years was the principle that all men are equal before the law regardless of wealth, position or class.

In the early part of the 20th century this was expanded to include gender as previously women were denied voting rights, forbidden to practice medicine and considered subservient to men.

These are achievements that have been hard won by our society.

Sharia law recognises none of these achievements.

Is it unavoidable that we should give up our rights and regress to the middle ages? How can ethnic minorities integrate if they are separated with alternative legal systems? What would happen to a Christian women's rights in a divorce case involving an Islamic man when the case is decided by Sharia law? Would this be acceptable within our society?

You decide. I already have!

[F. KANN]

It is often argued by Muslims that the only the part of the Sharia Law concerning marriage and divorce is concerned here. But the point is that it starts with marriage & divorce and will then expand to other areas of criminal and civil law.

Why start with marriage & divorce? Because women are the weakest part of Muslim societies, better start with them. There is an Arab saying that "if you want to frighten a dog, beat a chicken". Then they can enforce other parts of the Sharia on Muslim men, non-muslims living in muslim areas, and then to the whole country. First step is to enforce the Islamic veil on women. See what is happening to women in Basra!

Muslims already live excluded from the general community, and applying Sharia Law to them will deepen this rift even further. And the worse victims will be women. Just ask the Commission of Human Righs in Pakistan and India (where Muslims live under a separate Muslim Personal Law).

The irony is that Sharia Law will make the Muslims even more backward and later on the Government will have to apply positive discrimination programme to uplift them - as in India.

In fact many Muslims emigrated to UK in order to flee the Sharia Law and its consequences in their native countries. Unfortunately, the Sharia Law now wants to follow them to UK. If anyone wants to live under the Sharia Law, the best thing is for Government to help them to emigrate to countries ruled by Sharia Law. In this globalised world, people are moving around all the time, so you do not have to live in a country you don't like. Surely, pleasing Allah is more important than a few British Pounds Sterling!

[Dan]

If you live in the UK get bloody used to it, don't bring in Sharia law or any other laws just because of religion, don't base laws on any religions. When people come from a abroad they have a choice fit into the UK life, culture and laws no exceptions, if you don't like it you can go to country where Sharia law is practised.

[Logos]

He is wrong. In every country where Islam is the dominant faith, all other faiths are subordinated. A visit to Iran or Saudi Arabia will elighten those who talk about the moderate face of islam. Why is that when Islam is the minority faith, the virtues of democracy and tolerance are touted. The same principle should be applied. Islam is an intolerant faith. While much has been said about its tolerant spirit (the sufi movement in india being case in point), the interpretation and practise of it in today's world is based on discrimination and intolerance. Thus Islam cannot be the guiding light for a tolerant, open and democratic nation. Britain should be driven by british values. Those who are rankled by it, are more than welcome to take the next plane to Pakistan, Bangladesh or Saudi Arabia and experience the joys of an islam centric culture first hand.

[Rizwan Khaliq]

First of all I think it is important for many to realise that Sharia Law is already being implemented in the UK with regards to Islamic Finance on which HSBC; LLOYDS TSB are taking the lead. Sharia Law is already being implemented with regards to Food on which Tesco; Sainsbury; Iceland and the like stock. Sharia Law is already being implemented with regards to Muslim Marriages as a Nikah ceremony is sufficient prrof of marriage on which a spouse visa is granted without having to do more. To allow two consenting couples to divorce according to the Sharia Law doesn't seem out of tune with the way society is moving and has been moving for many a year. What's all the fuss about???

[dave]

Fortunately not all of us are so dimwitted as not to be able to follow the Archbishops line of reasoning, or comprehend what he's talking about.

Why on earth do we even need journalists to misrepresent and give opinions on issues that they they themselves have not fully understood? Ignore what the hype-mongering, ignorant, middle-class media fools have to say, and go read the archbishops words for yourselves:

http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/1575

[Barefoot]

To be Absolutely clear so that no one is confused about what laws they should adopt or follow, it should be the law of the country, For a Christian to go into a Muslim country or anyone into any country and even ask that certain laws be changed or allowed to accommodate a group of people from another country or religion would be suicide. A business woman just got arrested and thrown in jail for sitting with a man in a starbucks having a meeting in a Muslim country and that is ridiculous but it is the law of the country and if you don’t like it then get out. Customs are being allowed and that is as far as it should go, if we give into this then we will surely open pandora’s box

[Wazir]

Dear All,
It sends shivers down my back to read the posts above, I thought I was reading some archived record from the Weimer republic. The blatant hatred being peddled is shocking....it shows how far the far-right have gone in spreading fear of minorities.
Do you realise that the government has already made provision in terms of 'stamp duty' to facilitate Islamic Mortgages? Do you realise the legal provisions made for the Islamic Banking sector, London is one of the major financial centres for Islamic banking!
More pertinent is that legal exceptions already exist for the Jewish communities, special religious courts (recognised and incorporate in English law) for orthodox Jews in respect to divorce....etc.
If we were to change the words Islam and Muslim with Judaism and Jews then the thread above would be well placed in a far-right Nazi website, rather than the Times. It's nothing less than disgusting!
Thank God that the Times is not reflective of Britain at large.

Best wishes,
Wazir

[Myles Alexander]

This is Gordan Brown in 2006: Chancellor Gordon Brown has pledged support for the growth of Islamic finance, saying the UK can act as "a gateway" for the growing industry.
He told the Islamic Finance and Trade Conference in London he wanted to make the UK a centre for Islamic investment.

He called for stronger trading links between the UK and Muslim countries as well as global trade reform.

Under Sharia Islamic law, making money from money, such as by charging interest, is not permitted.

He emphasised recent regulatory reforms which have ensured that financial frameworks are compliant with Sharia law.

SO ITS CONFORMITY TO SHARIAH LAW WHEN IT SUITS YOU EH, GORDAN!

[Danial]

"If you live in Britain, you live under British law."

There is no such thing as "British law". We are governed by English law in England and Wales, Scots Law in Scotland and Northern Ireland has its own courts. Then you have military and ecclesiastical courts. And finally, you have what amounts for centres for arbitration like the Beth Din, which observant Jews would like to refer to and whose home page declares:

"In Jewish Law, Jewish parties are forbidden to take their civil disputes to a secular court and are required to have those disputes adjudicated by a Beth Din."
http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/beth-din-london/index.html

So, will Melanie Phillips (who I believe has left a comment up above) and Daniel Finkelstein call for the closure of the London Beth Din, which is clearly asking observant Jews to ignore civil law and refer, instead, to the strictures of their faith?

I doubt it, but let's see.

[jlyons]

This man is an idiot. Look at what kind of culture and countries have Sharia law. Why would anyone want this.

[jlyons]

This man is an idiot. Why would anyone want to live under Sharia law. Look at the countries that have this, they are backward, repressive, cruel to women, etc. He needs to open his eyes to reality.

[Obaid Al-Habsy]

Very courageous man and I commend his ability to stand for what he thinks it is right. It is time for Islam phobics to understand that Islam is here to stay and followed by millions of people including British citizens. Britain is multicultural society surely it can adjust its laws to accommodate others' way of life.

[charles soper]

Daniel, I agree but please justify your position on Sharia in the context of the UK law and the Orthodox Din Bet courts?

[Stephen]

How is it possible for this man to be chosen for this position when he is obviously completely out of touch with public opinion? Given the rewards I cannot say I blame him for taking the job, but one has to look more carefully at who did in fact employ such a flawed individual.

[mackers]

Stupid bloke. I mean, christian, and pro muslim? how many pro christian muslims can you count..? Thin end and wedge more like. The Christian preachers who called for the 1st crusade mostly had a copy of the Koran translated into Latin. Know your enemy's mind set, don't try and appease latent fundamentalists. Have a word with yourself or step down.

[Alex]

The thought of Sharia law, in any form, becoming the norm in this country is abhorrent. Beatings, amputations, stonings and treating women as 2nd class citizens are not "Muslim bashing" they are indeed fact. If you don't believe it try reading the Amnesty International reports on Syria and Saudi Arabia for information on how people are treated under this system. There was a time when Religious systems ruled the World. It was called "The Dark Ages".

[Jack Holland]

When will the British people stand up to the cultural suicide that the establishment in all its forms is currently committing? The confidence that was required to say NO, the confidence that forged the nation has gone. Sir Charles Napier, when asked to allow the Indian tradition of throwing a dead man's very much alive wife onto the funeral pyre replied : " In my country if people throw a living person onto a fire we build a gallows and hang them. So, you go ahead and follow your custom and I will follow ours...

[joe]

did you know that he is also a bum boy

[Mohammad Ishraq]

Does any one of you know what is Sharia Law?
All unbelievers in Alla and Mohammad shal be killed and his/her blood spilled unrseveidly!
Most of women in this country will be stoned to death because of non-Islamic sexual relationship,......

[Donald Southerby]

It's not okay for Sharia laws even in marriages - don't forget Sharia allows polygamy - which is against British law.

Sharia allows unilateral divorce by the Muslim man by uttering only three words: talaq, talaq, talaq.

Sharia discriminates against the woman in alimony, inheritance and child-support.

Sharia takes away the rights of the mother to her children past the age of seven. Once your children reach 7 years old - they belong to the father.

These 'civil' aspects of sharia are incompatible with British laws and the British way of life.

Dr Williams should resign and apply for the job of Grand Mufti. He seems more interested in advocating for the Muslims at the expense of his own religion and constituents.

[Sophiya]

As a Canadian we laugh at the lack of integration your country has and are disgusted at the hypocrisy Britain and its people display. It is obvious you have a problem with muslims and anything that goes outside of your comfort zone. You people are worse than Americans. You have no clue what multiculturalism is about and your cultural and societal problems are only going to get worse. If its not obvious, well here's the update then.

You should have thought twice about raping and colonizing countries in the past and then trying to make up for it by allowing immigrants into your country. =)

[jenna]

I doubt this silly man is even a christian! If he was, he would be trying to persuade those who are not christians, to turn from their sin and follow Christ - as he should be doing! Instead of urging people to repent - he's colluding with the sinners, even wanting to adopt their ways. Terrible. Wrong. This man should be removed from his office. He is not fit to even do the gardening in the local C of E church yard. Shame on you Rowan!

[Vince Schroeder]

Williams is Apostate. Big Surprise (yawn)! Excommunicate him, fire him, and show him the door to the street...with a nice, politically correct smile, of course, singing, "SEMPER UBI, SUB UBI!" ("Always wear underwear!")

[Glen Henderson]

Who does this man think he is to think that the British people should have laws that favour violence against Women and the death sentance for mimor crimes. Get rid of this idiot now.

[Joyce]

The Archbishop should pack his bags,along with everyone in this country who practices Sharia Law and go and live where it is practiced, i have no objection to that ,
Why do people want to change our culture and beliefs, i can imagine what would happen if we tried to do the same in there country (that they have abandoned)
Already our kids cant have hot cross buns at Easter because it may offend, that was in a school in Yorkshire, For goodness sake lets get real , oil and water do not mix,

[Stuart Jones]

Britain is a Christian country. Since we embraced the idea of "multi-culturism" (for which there should have been a referendum in the first place), we have seen our culture, traditions and customs slowly being eroded away. The Arch-
bishop, rather than being our relig-
ious leader, seems bent on being one of the principal architects in our destruction.

[Valerie]

I want to ask why WHY our once fantastic country is being torn apart to keep incomers happy,we have been told we cannot wear a cross at our workplace in case we upset others but until all these immigrants arrive no one would ever stop us doing so or even think anything about it.WHY are our own religeous leaders trying to deny what we have have believed in and been taught, yes, we once had religeous teachings in our schools before that also was stopped so as not to upset new comers. Williams even told kids that there never were three kings, a star, etc at Jesus birth. WHY WHY WHY is he and our so called leaders eroding everything that we have lived by for century's. What is the hidden agenda that is ripping this country apart???

[Aaron Screaton]

It’s not about Britain being a Christian country, or having its laws based on Christian laws. It is about the fundamental issue, that Islam and other religions have no real sound evidence for their claims. Therefore why should we prescribe laws that are in our scientific and secular observation of society, are on the whole unnatural and incompatible with the happiness of people. The need is one which Richard Dawkins and others such as Hitchens, Dennett and Harris have spoken about. We the irreligious need to step up and speak out, we cannot allow ourselves to be unheard. Non religious people are and do live morally and ethically sound lives.
It’s not that we don’t want Islamic law governing our legal system, but any religious system trying to impose its laws upon us. If we follow current trends of ' giving respect to faith' because you can’t criticise someone’s faith, these Laws would not be in the category of criticism, or at least that would be the claim. It’s some ones faith, you can’t criticise that! Well we can, we should and we will!

Islam is the current evil cursing the earth! Yes there is people living peaceful lives under the code and religion that is Islam, they are not all the same in view and reaction. But as long as religions exist, as long as they are given by us the strong voice that they have, we shall never be able to reason with the world.

An unbeliever has everything to lose by not using reason and everything to gain by reason. The religious man has everything to gain through no reason, and nothing to lose through reason. Heaven doesn’t wait for the martyrs of reason. Faith demands no reason. Faith dictates no thought. We must allow reason, religion is not reason. Therefore even suggesting or contemplating allowing such laws to be instituted is a mockery of reason.

Religion is the enemy of all reason. The solution is to let the voices of the reasonable be heard, im convinced it will drown out such claims made by the relgious.

[Adam Neilson]

I wonder how many people responding to this thread, and indeed writing all these articles in the press and on blogs, actually heard or read a transcript of the Archbishop's comments and even understands the context in which he was speaking. Very few it seems. He's talking about a role similar to the Beth Din - which frankly I don't endorse particularly but the fact is that mediation is always an option under English law.

[Baxta Basix]

There should be NO sharia law in UK. If private individuals wish to persue out of court settlements on matters such divorce, debt settlements, etc etc they are free to do so under existing English Law.

By accepting sharia law (which versiion of it do you want?) this will be the thin end of the wedge. More pressure to accept more (unpleasant) aspects of it will undoubtedly follow.

If people want to enjoy the benefits? of sharia law they are free to go and live in many places in the world where it already exists, much to the pain of anyone who is not in the male dominated ruling elite of those countries.

So, if you really want sharia law go and seek it, don't bring it here.

[Baxta Basix]

By the way the Archbishop looks like a mad ayatollah in the pictures here...says it all really!!!

[F. KANN]

Adopting Sharia Law for a Muslim community of 3% of the total population? What will it be when they are 30% of the population? Partition? Londonistan is not far!

[Cllr Ken Tiwari (independent)]

All good media like this the times&
other will print good comments,about
a senior member of our C-o-E,or any
other church, i am sure; but most of the comments i read in most of the media's are written against the
Dr Rowan William, i wonder why there
is no one to defend Dr Rowan William
I am not sure if am qualified to say
anything about shari-law?

I don't think we need any more
law, i thought we already have too
many laws-on-religeon already!!!!!!
Ken

[TheWorldOfM]

Although I am not religious in any way, I do agree that this being a Christian country, should remain a Christian country. Not implementing other laws does not mean disrespecting other religions. And I do think the Archbishop should resign. In times of uncertainty and doubts over religions, each religion needs someone who stands firm on his toes and defend it and protect the faith of followers, and rally the true believers to even greatly enhance the cause. What's not needed is someone who tip toes on the fences, unsure of who he should befriend. If he's not 100% sure where he stands, then he should go.

[P. A. Triot]

No Muslim Shariah courts!
No Jewish Beth Din courts!
No Somali courts! etc

Just British courts for ALL citizens. End of discussion...

[Peter Cressall]

What more can I say? And the fool of the family into the Church....

[Gita Chakraborty]

He should resign immediately, that's it. If people want to live under Sharia law they should go to a country which practices Sharia law; there are many such countries. This a multicultural, fair and equal society, and if people don't like it they can leave. International migration is increasingly popular and available in both directions. Rowan Williams should look after CofE matters and the wellbeing of the Christian community and let the Muslim community fight it's own corner.

[R.Barlas]

People have panicked simply due ot the fact that they heard "sharia law" and something about it replacing British law. What the Archbishop has said has been taken completely out of context. The law would have no adverse effects as it would not effect most people, and the muslim minority that would be effected would benefit. More unnecessary panick due to islamaphobia it seems...

[Mike Kunz]

"Peace in our time"? I'm awfully glad that I took the opportunity to emmigrate to Australia. Still support the 'Poms' but glad I don't live there. Don't know the history of this creature, but he sure sounds like a 5th columnist to me. As a (still) loyal subject of Her Majesty, I hope that she gets rid of this pestilent priest.
Mike K, Tasmania

[Vicki]

You know what? The Archbishop has done you a favor in outing this issue. How much attention was paid to it before? Not enough, apparently!

[Jennifer Jenkins]

Excellent article. I hope that this spurs Great Britain to remember what makes it "Great." I hope that U.S. citizens (of which I am one)take note of what is happening there and remember to apply it to their own country.

[Babban Rao]

The english people should not take a step backward with sharia law.
There should be one code of law for everyone living in england.

[Elena Simona]

Not unlike other groups in the world ,Muslims arrive dusty, afraid and exhausted upon the shores of western nations seeking help, comfort and protection from factional violence.

Unlike other refugees or immigrants in the world, I have never witnessed a group of people more demanding, intolerant and insistent on using those western rights in order to deny them to those who extended them in the first place. It beggars belief
that those that run from oppressive rule seek - nay, demand that it be enstated in the country within which they shelter from it.

It is not that any one group is evil, only that the Islamic culture (which is completely defined within its religion - and visa versa) is absolutely incompatible
with Western culture. Further, we in the West have confused multinationalism with 'multiculturalism'. No where is it necessary to dimish what we are and what is important to us in order to accommodate those who seek to live upon our shores. It is their choice or need to come and it is because of our good will that their lives continue without fear. Their disregard of our laws, culture and beliefs shows the arrogance and conceit with which they hold toward the Western World at large despite our welcoming them to our
countries.

Britain is one nation, made up of people of many nations, living under one set of British rules. Period.
What Britain provides is the freedom to live unmolested by roving bands of mutawas, the ability
if desired, to breathe fresh air with or without a hijab, the ability to educate their children in the hope of a better future,the ability to go to the mosque,
pray in peace and the privilege of a legal system that judges them based on their actions as people, not sunnis, wahabis or any other sect. That is all. That is much.

Somewhere, within the comfort of Britain's cozy haven, some in the islamic community have taken this for granted and developed a nostalgic, rose -tinted glasses view of 'home'. It is easy to remember the good when at a safe distance from the bad. In an attempt to re create that 'home', the push begins. Some where, lost in that push, is exactly where Britain is at this moment.

It is important to remember the one thing shared by Britain, Australia, the United States and a small number of other countries - ability to VOTE.
We have the privilege to use this very great power at the grass roots level to influence what happens in the highest positions of prominence - VOTE.

If you want to restrict more immigration from these
areas, VOTE and if you believe strongly in maintaining Britain's culture and historical value, VOTE. And, if God forbid, we lose the ability to influence through the democratic system of voting, fight.

Ask yourselves if you are all prepared to actually lay down your lives for what you believe in.
I assure you, that if you are not then the West will
fall. It isn't the first time that Islam has tried to expand into Europe. Our methods of stemming that tide were not so polite in Ferdinand and Isabella's 15th century reality - but they were effective.

I wonder if the West will ever have to resort to draconian methods to save itself and indeed, if it will have the resolve to do so.

God help us all.

[Craig Williamason]

This should put England on notice that she is heading down the drain hole(I am very sad to say). Your tolerant contry will most likely be Islamic in under 30 years. Folks such as your ubertolerant and insightful Archbishop will be first in line for a good old fashioned Islamic head lopping.

[Jerome]

Archbishop buddy -- new day, new war, new song sheet.

The diversity-tolerance stuff has done its job. European peoples and their cultures are just about finished. You were helpful in that project and we thank you.

But we're shifting the culture-war overseas now and we can't really do that if we're tolerating domestically what we're pretending to eliminate in foreign parts. It won't fly with the rubes.

Again, your help in destroying the west is appreciated, but understand this - if you stand in the way of our efforts to destroy Islamic peoples and cultures, you will be destroyed.

OK?

[Sue]

David Pritchard you are right but what are you going to do when the Muslims have procreated into the majority? Your fellow British brethren need to do something to keep that from happening ....it can happen in a matter of a few generations, you know.

[Sue]

No one is thinking about what will happen when the British allow the Muslims to gain majority. This will be a whole new game when they manage it through procreation and you guys will be up sh*t creek.

[Jenny]

To those who rationalize the ABC's call for the inclusion of Sharia law as only dealing with marriage or divorce, there is another article online here that reveals that there are Sharia tribunals that are dealing with all crimes in the community. One dealing with a youth who stabbed another. The offender was released by the police and the Sharia court released the suspect. Have you no understanding about the wider implications? How fear and intimidation can lead to a violent offender, from a more powerful family being able to get away with criminal behavior, and what happens if and when the police are never involved.. no records maintained, and the offender becomes increasingly emboldened?

What about abusive divorce proceedings, where a woman is divorced and deprived of her children merely because she wanted some autonomy in her own life?

How long before you ignore the realities to the point you sleep yourselves out of existence?

To "Ortega", as a Catholic myself, are you insane? The pope, especially the one we have now was complicit in the willing indifference to the rapes of children by priests. The very people Catholics, including children are supposed to be able to trust. Considering the damage this has done, to the faith, but also to those precious young lives.. a young man in my city committed suicide because he could no longer live with what the abuse and having to deal with the scandal had done to his life. I'm sorry, but the Catholic church does not have the higher ground in this. All religions need to insure that their leaders are sound, stable and ethical.

[Less1Leg]

The United Church ages ago gave up Christianity for Liberalism. It has progressively been steered toward Ulta-liberalism for many decades now. Why should you feel offended when the greater internal structure of this church doesn't uphold Christian beliefs.
As evident of today's Arch Bishop capitulation to Islam and Muslim teachings is the politically correct way to not offend the religious leaders of Islam.
But as long as the current church withdrawls inwards towards more liberalism and less Christianity you will get more leadership like the current Arch Bishop beliefs.

[Lewis Field]

How Great Britain has found itself at a juncture in history when its state church sanctions a leader who shuns the divine birth of Christ, while also bowing to Sharia craziness is a puzzle. You once great people have reached such a sorry state. You make my country (USA) appear righteous, and that's hard to do!

[Rob]

Oh Orwell!! You were right...they're destructing,and by their own hand!

[Scotus Americanus]

British Law has sought to restrain evil behaviour whilst giving the greatest amount of freedom with respect to all.

Sharia is about restricting freedom with oppressive behaviour.

The two are incompatible.

Unfortunately, what Dr. Williams has just now done is similar to smearing blood over your head and tapping a carnivorous wasps nest.

If the Muslims are so keen for Sharia, there are many places to live under it. Let Britain remain British, or perish.

(in America, it was quoted "give me liberty or give me death".)

[Johan]

The Archbishop of Canterbury is a thoughtful man of God and quite correct in his comments. Those criticising him live with their head under a pillow.
Sharia law have become well entrenched in the UK and in Europe. It might not be the official law but is very much alive.
Try post a picture or comic in any paper in Europe and the full effect of Sharia law will be felt. Might not be official Queen's Law, but it is here.
The only way forward is to claim back the country.

What do you call it when a bunch of people all take Ambien at the same time? -- Western Europe. Look at France and their Sharia communities rising up against the French gov't. In the UK already, a Somali community in Woolwich is currently telling police that they will take care of their own criminals under Sharia law and the police are letting them. According to some posts here, that's okay because it doesn't apply to non-muslims. It's not okay. What you don't realize is that the UK, by letting people live by laws other than UK law will errode your sovereignty. You are giving up parts of your land to new laws and new community leaders and it won't stop there. Do other immigrant groups (i.e., Indian, etc...) who have assimilated and lived ther