Which of these men did the photographer think was a hero?

This morning is the fortieth anniversary of one of the iconic images of the Vietnam War. It was taken on 1 February 1968, with the Tet offensive in its early stages. It pictures General Nguyan Ngoc Loan executing a Vietcong prisoner.

It is, no question about it, a terrible image. 

This morning, with its admirable instinct for a story, the Today programme told the tale of Eddie Adams's photograph and the impact it made.

Sadly Adams is dead, so the programme featured a different, but also distinguished, war photographer Philip Jones Griffiths. And Jones Griffiths described his feelings about the photo and his own decision to track down and photograph the executed man's widow.

Jones Griffiths had strong views on the photo and gave them to us.

He dismissed the idea that the executed man had been a killer saying both that the idea that the man had just killed others was "kind of propaganda" and that "he wouldn't have been much of a Vietcong soldier" if he hadn't tried to kill people. He clearly viewed the photo's power as being its revelation of the evil of the war and America's involvement.

These were interesting, legitimate, opinions. But it is a shame that it wasn't mentioned that they were not remotely the views held by Eddie Adams of his own photo.

Here's what Eddie Adams had to say about General Loan:

The guy was a hero.

And - surely an essential point in any proper discussion of the history of the photograph - here's what he had to say in Time magazine about his photograph:

The general killed the Viet Cong; I killed the general with my camera. Still photographs are the most powerful weapon in the world.

People believe them, but photographs do lie, even without manipulation. They are only half-truths.

What the photograph didn't say was, 'What would you do if you were the general at that time and place on that hot day, and you caught the so-called bad guy after he blew away one, two or three American soldiers?

When Loan died, Adams - who had called him many times to apologise for the damage done to Loan's reputation - sent a bunch of flowers with the inscription:

I'm sorry. There are tears in my eyes.

Adams wished he had never taken the photo, and whether or not he was right about this I think it should have been mentioned this morning, don't you?

Comments

[habrow2]

I saw this on TV. There was no evidence other than that he was Viet Cong. It's Show Time!

[Pax Dickinson]

He was Viet Cong, so in other words he was a follower of a murderous totalitarian ideology that had already killed well over 100 million people at that point in time, and he was currently engaged in an effort to murder anyone who opposed his ideology and to convert his entire country's population into slaves of the state. Under the rules of war laid out in the Geneva Conventions, as a combatant who wore no uniform he would be legally considered a spy and subject to summary execution, which General Loan 100% legally carried out.

What would people have said about the picture if the man being executed was a Nazi SS stormtrooper? I don't think they'd be near as sympathetic to him, despite communism being responsible for far more deaths than Naziism.

But then the communists MEANT WELL, and apparently to some that makes all the difference.

[Jim]

Thank goodness for the Internet. Without a blog like this, and links from another blog that brought me here, i wouldn't have known the photographer's opinion. With background like you have provided, I get the feeling that if the liberal MSM like Today try to sway me to believe X, i should instead believe the anti-X. They just never believe that people will remember the truth and point it out to others. i remember the photo from 1968, i just didn't know Adam's feelings about taking it.

[dadmanly]

Like many icons and mythical constructs perverted for political purposes, no, it isn't important to most of those who "cherish" this photograph.

Why do I say cherish? Because the invested emotionally in what they fervently believe it represents. It really doesn't matter that the premise of their assumptions about it were entirely wrong.

Likewise, the fact that the poor girl running naked from the horror of war was in fact running from enemy violence, not US, matters not at all, either.

Both images are indelibly linked in the mythology of an evil US war.

[zombyboy]

It absolutely should have been discussed.

His feelings about that photograph are well known--to discuss the picture without acknowledging his own later regrets is, in the same way that the photo only tells a part of the story, missing a big part of the conversation.

[Bob]

Nice judicial system.

[PD Quig]

You saw it on TV! Well, that is most definitively that. I can't imagine why anybody in the media would tell anything but the whole truth, nuanced and complicated though it was.

Ever been in a war zone, Low Brow?

[submandave]

"'[H]e wouldn't have been much of a Vietcong soldier' if he hadn't tried to kill people"

Or if he had worn a uniform and fought in accordance with the Geneva Conventions. His failure to do either, however, forfeited him any right to be treated as a legitimate enemy soldier. I can't judge if the General's actions were right or not, but I do know that in many past wars enemy combatants caught in perfidy had traditionally been subject to summary execution to discourage such tactics.

[Rodney Graves]

No uniform. No identifying mark visible at a distance.

Summary execution of a war criminal.

Next.

[KSM]

If the man being shot was indeed a soldier (which I think has been established beyond any doubt) then he was fighting while not in uniform, and therefore had no legal protected from immediate execution upon capture. Such is the law of war. General Loan was and is indeed a hero.

[jeff]

HABROW2,
you do realize they were not in a court of law ...

notice the General is wearing a uniform the other guy is not ...

Geneva clearly states combatents found out of uniform may be executed on the field ...

That is the rules ...

:)

[willis]

I suppose that if the general had slowly sawed off the screaming man's head, the left would been just fine with it.

[Fidg]

My understanding was that the man who was killed was an army irregular who killed a South Vietnamese police officer and his family. I think if you were the general, you wouldn't have gone about indiscriminently killing your countrymen.

If the facts are as I understand them, this guy deserved execution. The photographer's regret indicates this was the case.

[matt]

the Vietcong and NVA were all over Saigon killing anyone in their way. General Loan was in combat having captured an enemy soldier firing on Allied troops. He did what was necessary at that time in an extremely dangerous combat environment. The photo crystallized an antiwar movement that was heavily subsidized by the USSR, masters of propaganda.

[Honora Storrie]

Wonder what would have happened if the man with a gun was an American soldier and the gentleman being shot was an innocent civilian?

[DaveP.]

Nope, no evidence other than people who were there at the scene at the time.

Where were YOU, habrow2?

[Trebor John]

This killing - the first if not the only real killing I have seen on TV - was so casual it was shocking.

As for the morality ---- if I was the General I would have done the same.

[Andrew]

All I see is a communist tool being killed. Then again I went through a war where the enemy were communist tools, and I saw what they did on purpose to defenseless civilians. I was well aware of the result of their victory - everyone loses.

General Loan, nice shot! Too bad the Democrat Congress of the USA pulled out and left you and your people alone to the wolves.

[rosignol]

He was a non-uniformed combatant.

[Bill]

Perhaps this Wikipedia entry will put some focus on who this Philip Jones Griffith is and who his heroes are in these issues. His book was put out with :

"In 2001 Vietnam Inc was reprinted with a foreword by Noam Chomsky."

If Noam ole buddy is forwarding your book, then we know where its headed now dont we.....down the Leftist Fascism rat hole.

[Bill]

Perhaps this Wikipedia entry will put some focus on who this Philip Jones Griffith is and who his heroes are in these issues. His book was put out with :

"In 2001 Vietnam Inc was reprinted with a foreword by Noam Chomsky."

If Noam ole buddy is forwarding your book, then we know where its headed now dont we.....down the Leftist Fascism rat hole.

[edh]

The event also captured in motion (film or tape), wasn't it?

[lubertdas]

Hasbrow2:

It's good to know that your memory of seeing it on TV is better evidence than the General, or the photographer, both of whom were actually there.

For me, if both of them say that the guy in the grunge flannel just got done killing some soldiers, US or South Vietnamese, he got what he deserved. According to the Geneva Convention, he's not in a military uniform, and is therefore not subject to those rules and can be shot, as he was.

The war in Viet Nam pointed out what was entirely wrong with the political and media in that age, and it's why I hope with every fiber of my being that we never elect another Baby Boomer president.

[Firehand]

What? And maybe hint that a guy on our side WASN'T a murdering monster?

[Brett King]

Just another example of the media knowing the full truth but manipulating the facts it reports to shape an agenda, an anti-war agenda in this case.

[Hale Adams]

That the prisoner was Viet Cong was enough BY ITSELF to condemn him to death on the spot, per the Geneva Conventions.

Per the Conventions, a captured enemy combatant must pass FOUR tests to be considered a LAWFUL combatant and get POW status. If the captured enemy combatant fails ANY of those four tests, he's an UNLAWFUL combatant and the only thing he has a right to is a bullet in the head.

One of those tests is the wearing of a uniform, or at least a prominent badge or armband, indicating the fact that he is in the service of one of the sides in the battle. Do you see such a uniform or badge? No, I don't either.

Sorry, he flunked the test, and got the bullet he was entitled to.

Cruel? Yes, but necessary. Think about it-- the Geneva Conventions aren't about the protection of soldiers. They exist for the protection of CIVILIANS caught in a war zone. If the Conventions aren't enforced, however cruel the enforcement might appear to be, the Conventions, and the "laws of war" generally, become a nonsense, and civilians become fair game, to be raped and slaughtered as the invaders see fit.

I don't want to go down that road, and neither do you, Harbrow2.

[Bugs]

Leftists will stick together, won't they?

[Flintlock]

The shootee was a VC Lt.-out of uniform--head of an assassination squad tasked with the attack on housing for the FAMILIES of Vietnamese Officers and the murder of same.
A good shoot that I applaud to this day.

[Jez W]

Adams tracked the chap with the gun down to the convenience store he run in the US after the War-

it was at this point that Nguyan Ngoc explained that the Viet Kong was in fact guilty of being a Guerilla VC operative. Right or wrong, on each side there was a shoot to kill policy (on the VC side there was a reported 'torture to kill' policy for South Vet Troops captured).

Usual scenario- left/liberal journo' arrives, puts a massive spin on every thing he see's, edits and picks out the most damaging bits- then sends it back, undermines the country he's from, watches it all go west, leaves the mess he's help create and goes back to the country he's undermined.

Award time.

Great.

[mpw280]

HABROW,
So you saw it on tv therefore know its the truth? Viet cong in civilian clothing, does that not constitute being a spy and at that time in S Vietnam was it legal to execute spies? Might want to look into that, their laws on that might shock you. Do you also believe that TET was a massive military loss for the Americans and South Vietnamese army as well? That was reported on tv as a huge loss for the US and SV armies, yet the numbers and NV reports of the outcome point to a completely different outcome than was reported on the news. Tv we all know is not biased, not at all. mpw

[joated]

Viet Cong in civilian clothes in enemy territory. Summary execution was warranted.

Loan got the short end of the stick then and on Today.

[Corin Keiler-Lloyd]

You are right Mr. Finkelstein. But a soldier, once captured has rights. Having said that, he was not in uniform which makes him a spy , or some such, and reduces his rights.

[Lunatic]

He wasn't in uniform when he did his killing, therefore he wasn't a Vietcong soldier, whatever Griffiths thinks. He was a Vietcong "spy" or "saboteur", a "franc-tireur" or "terrorist" or "unlawful combatant". Accordingly, under the laws and traditions of warfare, he was subject to summary execution when captured.

And let's be clear; the North Vietnamese did the same thing when they caught people fighting against them out of uniform. The moral difference between the two sides is that the North Vietnamese would have also shot any photographer trying to publicize it.

[michael mullins]

Apologizing for the damage to Loan's reputation ?

[Vapour]

Thats war for you. There are tears in my eyes. Tears that taste like "oh well".

[John Fembup]

The Adams photo was not the only recording of the event. I've seen a film of it as well. I thought for a long time that the photo was a still taken from the film - but now I think there were two cameras there.

[John Fembup]

The Adams photo was not the only recording of the event. I've seen a film of it as well. I thought for a long time that the photo was a still taken from the film - but now I think there were two cameras there.

[John Fembup]

The Adams photo was not the only recording of the event. I've seen a film of it as well. I thought for a long time that the photo was a still taken from the film - but now I think there were two cameras there.

[Daniel]

At last, more of the story comes out.

Changed my mind.

[David S]

For such a question your answer should have carried some of the information leading up to that event in your main article.

Whilst that photograph looks appauling and damning, I didn't want to condemn a man from a photograph alone.

Was the General a cold executioner killer or had something else brought such action about?

Having done so (and read about the circa 34 police officers and their relatives executed and dead in the ditch near where Lim was caputred), I'm satisfied the General had good cause for his action, in the theatre of war.

[David]

Habrow, you "saw" it on TV? When? In 1968? Was it ever on TV? I don't think so. This is a still photo. Did you see a still photo on TV? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

[Ricky Barnes]

The general may or may not have been a hero on fullest assessment of his life, however, the photo is, if you can believe the story of the man at the receiving end of that pistol, a photo of two monsters. One cannot blame the photographer for damaging the general's reputation. The man chose to put a gun in his hand and use it. He and the man he's pointing at created the tragedy captured in a simple photo. They are the one's who made the choices that created this scene. The photographer simply preserved the truth created by others.

[Rob]

A great point; the meaning of the other iconic picture, of a naked young girl running from a US bombing attack, is also flawed. It was a South Vietnamese attack, not US.
The young woman ultimately migrated to Canada.

[Angela Motorman]

Eddie Adams' opinion is beside the point. He was there simply to record what was happening (otherwise, it might have been incumbent on him to, you know, try to stop this summary execution).

The point is that General Loan's decision to act as judge, jury and executioner was a betrayal of the values that those American soldiers thought they had gone to war to defend.

People who haven't had their vision clouded by relativism have a word for Loan, and it isn't "hero".

[mary]

Neither of them were heroes. However, the man who pulled the trigger was a murderer.

[mary]

neither of them is a hero. The man with the gun in his hand is a murdeer.

[mary]

Neither of these men are heroes. The man with the gun is a murderer.

[Janette Daniel-Whitney]

Regardless of what the photographer experienced, for me, the power of this photo has always been in how dramatically it captures the horrible mindless brutality at the heart of war. The question of who was a hero and who wasn't had never even remotely entered my mind. If the gun had been pointing in the opposite direction, the resulting impact would have been equally devastating. All war deaths are tragic. We have invented heroism to deaden us to the unbearable pain. These are not good guys and bad guys, they are humans who believed that their only choice was to play out their roles in the "theatre" of war. Grief and mourning are the words that come to mind.

[RobertoElGrande]

Ummm.... the quote from the guy who took the photo contains the phrase "so-called bad guy" doesn't it?

There are lots of so-called bad-guys in the world. That's why we have courts, trials, rule of law and lawyers (yes, them) to figure things out.

Not paeans written long past the event from either side. IMHO the photo speaks for itself.

[Procter]

I recall reading somewhere that General Loan's family had all been murdered by the Viet Cong in the week before this picture was taken. If this is true then one can fully understand his desire to hit back at any VC who came within range. Yes, you shouldn't kill enemy prisoners out of hand - but it happens in all wars.The victor's account of history carefully edits out its own failings in tis regard.

[Dennis]

I remember this photo from forty years ago. If my memory serves me, it was claimed the executed man had killed the general's family. At the time I felt that constituted a bit of hands-on revenge in a country falling apart.

[Tiggy]

I first saw this execution when I was very young and knew nothing of the details of this dreadful war. I though the "man" shooting the prisoner was evil.

With age, experience and, above all, education I now see how the photograph and the actions portrayed were understandable and possibly necessary within the context.

War must not be hidden away, but the devil is in the spin. The evil lies in those who use such an image for their own agenda and refused to see the terrible pathos involved.

Why see the pity of war when you can use a picture to blindside the public into what, without full knowledge, must be revulsion. People really must learn to check the information behind pictures.

I have tears in my eyes now, for the prisoner, the General and Adams.

[Mark]

Vietcong soldier? This man was believed to be part of a Vietcong assassination unit - note he is wearing civilian clothes - which tracked down and murdered the families (women and children) of South Vietnamese officers and officials. No mention of the atrocities committed by the Vietcong in the course of the Tet offensive - no mention of the innocent civilians rounded and up and killed. If the US Army had done the same those responsible would have been imprisoned and the Army's reputation destroyed even further.

I have no brief for the US in Vietnam. But the treatment of the history of that unpleasant and unnecessary war has been skewed by sections of the media more determined to make a political point than report events factually.

[Ian Kemmish]

I'm old enough to have seen the photo (and I think there was also cine footage?) but young enough not to have known until now that he was a general. In my opinion the identities of the players don't matter.

The most important thing about this photo is the "What would you do?" question, and I'm glad to learn that Adams was aware of this. If the photo had been staged, it would have been drama, and the question easier to gloss over. If the photo has to be genuine, then it will destroy someone's reputation, and you're unlikely to be allowed to take such a photo of someone whose reputation you want to destroy.

I believe Adams was right to let wider considerations trump his personal loyalties for the second it took to press the shutter. But one can understand his regrets.

[Max Sceptic]

General Loan was a hero. If we'd have had a few General Loans in Afghanistan back in 2001/2 we would have to worry about the legacy of Guantanamo.

[Philip]

I too have seen colour cine footage of this execution on a UK TV documentary called "Murder Inc" on Channel 4 about 20-25 years ago.

So who said there was only a photo? You're wrong whoever it was. Unless there were more incidents like this caught on film?

Incidentally, the print shown above seems to be a reverse image, no?

[R C Dean]

Perhaps the most extraordinary thing is that the General took the burden of performing the execution on himself, rather than passing it down the line to one of the soldiers on the scene.

Unless he did so because he was a psychopathic sadist, then I think he was refusing to shirk his duty as he saw it, which is, indeed, admirable.

[Rich]

This image ~is~ a still from a cine sequence. Quite why Adams himself implies it was taken with a still camera can only be guessed at.

(The full clip can be found on the web, but it is particularly gruesome and I don't recommend you search for it!)

[John Chuckman, Toronto, Canada]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chuckmancartoons/56288362/

[Frank]

The power of image vs. words that create an image: we see the picture of a man shooting another man in the head. We don't see the dozens of bodies of civilians in a nearby ditch who were summarily executed by the un-uniformed team of assassins that the executed man in the picture belonged to.

The power to direct the image-creating equipment at the narrow view the image maker wants the audience to remember is the power to confuse and deceive, as well as to illuminate and inform. It is this power, with both its possibilities and dangers, that Plato highlighted in many of his dialogues, warning about various categories of false image makers, e.g., Phaedrus, Sophist, and Gorgias dialogues. This applies to both rhetoric and visual art in all media. It applies to music as well, or military march music, jazz, and torch singers in night clubs would have no patrons or listeners.

Beautiful images focus minds on truth, ugly images misdirect minds to give way to unbridled passion and destructive willful acts that leave behind lifelong regrets, increasingly hardened hearts, and ultimately, "creatures who once were humans". Because of its incompleteness, it's narrowly focused slice of the truth that tells a great lie, this is a decidedly ugly image.

[Dave Livingston]

He who identified himself as "Bugs" on 1 Feb. has it correct.

As I've understood it for decades is that the V.C. executed by General Loan had indeed led the murder team that within the past hour had murdered General Loan's best buddy, his buddy's wife & all 9 of their children.

Loan as a general of police not only had the legal right to execute the murderer, but also a moral one and I don't blame him one iota for having done so.

The sort of person who complains about Loan's execution of a murderer is also the sort who today complains about John McCain saying that he still hates the Gooks who tortured him in No. Viet-Nam.

The whimper that McCain is making a racial slur arises in ignorance. The word "Gook" is a Korean word when transliterated means nothing more than "Person." How's that racist?

[donquijotesrocket]

I treasure these comment sections as a chance to more fully acquaint myself with the stunningly arrogant stupidity of the wingnut 20% of the world.And in the case of the Times, its degeneration since its acquisition by the self-righteous aussie who apparently believes god died and left him in charge.

[Tony Francis]

No one likes this photo, or the event. But at the same time, the North Vietnamese Army and Viet Cong were summarily executing civilians in Hue. Estimates are that 5600 to 10,000 were killed on the spot without trial, lawyers, evidence or rule of law. It happened in just a few days. Unfortunately, there are no photos of this. But I suppose the left figures these 10,000 civilians and non-combatants in Hue had it coming, and aren't worth mentioning. It was happening where ever the Communists had taken over during Tet. They had execution lists. There is evidence the same thing went on in 1975.

[e skelton]

Their appears to be agreement that the executed man was a non uniformed killer not protected by the Geneva convention.The generals only crime seems to be in executing the man himself. If he had ordered a young conscript to do it as 'proper' generals do instead of sullying himself in a most un-Anglo Saxon way (officers of course must be gentlemen) then presumably the liberal conscience would be assuaged.

[Ludditte]

following the logic of the comments about the guy not being in uniform therefore he deserved to be shot.
I hope you share those sentiments about the CIA agents, Blackwater guards and the special forces soldiers in Afghanistan whose pictures we've seen wearing civilian clothing.
If caught, they deserve the same sort of street execution.

[Larry]

"...that unpleasant and unnecessary war..." More than 2 million dead in "the killing fields" would disagree with you, if they were here to speak.

FDR, the prez most admired by leftists, authorized the summary execution of eight German agents in WWII.

[morgan]

Say what you will about the Viet Cong and the Pol Pot regimes, they only bore out the comment by Dickens, that war is a great method of population control.

The Present day Chinese practice it in a rather more sedate and humane way, they limit the number of kids a parent can produce. But here we see all the namby pambies crying the
Chinese are abrogating the human rights of their citizenry.

Horses for courses, we don't do it that way, so neither should they, a typical response from westerners who do not have to suffer the consequences (just at the moment)of over population.
The way things are heading, we will soon have to commence a regime akin to that of either the Chinese, humane but severe, or fall under the spell of some extremist organisation which may well start a Euro version of Pol Pot.

Wait a minute, haven't we been down that path before?

Does the names Belsen, Aushwitchz, Soligor,etc., ring any bells?

[NikFromNYC]

Google and Wikipedia on General Loan (hurry up or they're be an edit war on that page, ha ha):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguy%E1%BB%85n_Ng%E1%BB%8Dc_Loan

What do I learn about this so-called "hero"?

His leg was blown off by machine gun, then he opened a Pizza joint in Virginia, but was hassled out of business when the media stormed his place after figuring out who he was and then the locals started scrawling threatening graffiti on the property. He died of cancer seven years later at age 67, leaving a wife and five kids.

The executed man was captured and hand-cuffed near the site of a ditch holding as many as thirty-four bound and shot bodies of police and their relatives, some of whom were the families of General Loan's deputy and close friend.

"Mr. Loan later suggested that the execution had not been the rash act it might have appeared to be but had been carried out because a deputy commander he had ordered to shoot had hesitated. "I think, 'Then I must do it,' " he recounted. "If you hesitate, if you didn't do your duty, the men won't follow you." Immediately after the shooting the general had walked over to a reporter and said, "These guys kill a lot of our people, and I think Buddha will forgive me." Mr. Loan, who had been relieved of his command after having been wounded, seemed a changed man, devoting time to showering presents on orphans. At the fall of Saigon his pleas for American help in fleeing were ignored. But he and his family escaped in a South Vietnamese plane.

So the only unanswered question is: was the pizza awesome or did it suck? There is no better measure of a man's character. It was a coffee/pizza cafe in either Burke, Dale City, or Springfield, VA. He lived in Burke, but the name of the pizza parlor is lost to Google History. Let's try the Wayback Machine for news in 1991 when the place was closed or sold...the site (Archive.org) is not working...NO INFO.

There was a group of reporters, including at least one with a moving picture camera, but the magazines used the still photo instead of a tiny video frame. In later years, Mr. Adams found himself so defined – and haunted – by the picture that he would not display it at his studio. The dead guy spurted blood several feet in the air, which was also photographed, but not released.

Anonymous quote: "I worked in an ice cream parlor directly across the small mall from Mr. Loan's pizza restaurant. I came to know he and his family quite well. I had no idea who he was until one day television news crews showed up and started filming and questioning him. I was so shocked when I found out that he was the one in the infamous picture. They ended up having to close the restaurant."

Quote from photographer (employed by AP at the time):
"I went to his place to visit him once. Hadn't seen him in a long time. He had a pizza shop in Springfield, Virginia. And it was really funny because I came walking into the store and he's behind his counter and he's eyed me walking in, and he's watching me and I went over and said: "General," I said, "you haven't aged a bit. You look the same." He said: "Eddie, you really got old." We had a long talk and I went to the bathroom and scribbled on the wall was some graffiti. And all it says is: "We know who you are you fucker." So we talked and that was about it. And he was known. Nobody would go into his place. And I did all that."

I did blunder into a graph of US deaths in Vietnam vs. Iraq though:
http://appealforcourage.org/misc/images/iraqVietnamGraph.gif

Overall, it looks like General Loan is vindicated.

[Sue]

Did we expect anything else from some photog that is probably in the hip pockets of Al Qaeda via AP or Reuters?
Better yet, he is a tinfoil hatted leftist loonie posing as a "sane" person we should listen to. Unless you have been in the Viet Cong gulags and tortured daily for years, I don't want to hear from you, period!

[john]

I can't say either of them are a hero. It is an abused word anyway. The General appointed himself judge, jury and executioner. I thought we were fighting to help bring democratic principles to Viet Nam, which would mean some rule of law in dealing with the enemy. Discounting the torture stuff, we do not do this to terrorist prisoners today. The person killed in this photo may have been someone who was deserving of execution, if his perversion of a revolutionary struggle had gone into vengeance and indiscriminate civilian killings that made him nothing more than a terrorist. But who knows the truth of the myths of what he did that are floating around today. Did he kill American soldiers? Well, that is what happens in war. Did he kill a policeman's family? That goes beyond war. That is why you have trials, and just don't shoot people on the side of the road with their hands tied behind their back because you decide to do so.

[George]

Jesus, every rightwing nutjob has been attracted to this article. Nevermind, history states the opposite, you and your backwards philosophies and morals have already been condemned to the waste basket, how did you hillbillies manage to navigate a computer is any wonder.

That is their uniform and that is their insignia, they were simply civilians that were sick and tired of a corrupt puppet administration and with a passion for change and burning desire to be heard, picked up an AK-47 and threw the current regime out, for good or for bad.

[JEC-VietnamVeteran]

Please visit the following three websites. The first will answer some of your questions, the last two are short sound recordings of Eddie Adams.

http://www.famouspictures.org/mag/index.php?title=Vietnam_Execution
http://www.newseum.org/media/ws/mp3/bio_adams_1.mp3
http://www.newseum.org/media/ws/mp3/bio_adams_2.mp3

[Archie]

It never occurred to me that either one was a victim or a hero. You pay your nickel, you take your chances. Those were the stakes in that war for the Vietnamese. The VC routinely did that and worse to supporters of the South. And, when they won the war, they rounded up people like General Loan by the thousands and summarily executed them in much the same fashion as that shown in the picture. Just desserts for the VC in the picture, I say.

As for the question posed, it certainly should have been discussed. But that's what one should expect from the media. Frame in the preconceived context, promote the agenda. All in a day's work. Perhaps the dead tree media should take off the blinders, smell the coffee, and understand why they really are losing readership.

[The 3rd Column]

I don't know if the viet cong could be deemed a hero but I don't believe the general was a hero either. The killing of a human being cannot be deemed a heroic act.

[Peter Kline]

There was film of this execution.
I remember seeing it in the Paradiso Amsterdam in 1969. Played forward and backwards on a loop - so the victim rose up from the gun shot only to be shot down over and over again. It was played for hours accompanied by The Who's Tommy, which was used as the soundtrack. Entertainment for the acid heads.

[Vietnamese]

As a Vietnamese my take on the comments here is they are shallow, with a touch of ignorance and hatred. Then, it was kill them because they are Commies, now it's kill them because they are Islamists. Great shame, bloody great shame.

[Neil Murphy]

It was murder pure and simple; there is no justification for what would have constituted a war crime. What destroyed the general’s reputation (if otw as destroyed) was the crime he committed.

"Loan as a general of police not only had the legal right to execute the murderer,”

Bull, as a general of police he sho9udl uphold the law, not act as judge jury and executioner.

"The sort of person who complains about Loan's execution of a murderer ... "

The Vietcong was as much a murderer as the USAF airman who carpet bombed villages and cities and dropped napalm in civilian areas.
The American military and their puppets killed approximately 3 million people and used chemical weapons whose effect is still felt, and for which no one was punished.

As to the 100 million dead figure quoted by one of the moronic readers that is not a fact but a piece of nonsense peddled by extreme right-wingers in America. It is normally applied to 'liberals;' but in reality to any current figure hated by the American right.

For finkelstein's final comment "Adams wished he had never taken the photo, and whether or not he was right about this I think it should have been mentioned this morning, don't you?"

It's not relevant. The Nazis filmed many of their own atrocities - does the fact they approved them lessen the crimes they committed?

[Andrew Milner]

I'm back into Ho Chi Minh City (formerly Saigon) tomorrow, and will be sure to visit the museums. Bodies with hands still ties and nails driven through the joints. The South Vietnamese army did the dirty work while the US advisors asked their questions. Time to hear the case for the prosecution. Iraq, Vietnam; catch my drift. "Nobody knows the troubles I've seen, nobody knows but Jesus..."

[Mark Page]

No uniform? You're kidding right? This was a peasant army! The vast majority of people were fighting for freedom against a corrupt regime. They barely had enough to eat let alone buy uniforms. I'm not saying war is not brutal, but I would say the South and the US committed far more war crimes than the North who won a free election that was nullified by the US because they didn't like the result, talk about democracy!

[Esmerelda]

"he was a follower of a murderous totalitarian ideology that had already killed well over 100 million people at that point in time"

And you are the follower of a murderous ideology which kills 20 million people every year. So, in the 7 years of this century your ideology already has a %40 lead on the butchers Stalin and Mao. You must be proud.

[Puneet Madaan]

The one who wins is always a Hero.... no matter, was he good or bad

[Ian]

I did read some one on here saying that the USSR were masters of propaganda?

If they were I don't think most people in the west would believe that 60mill people were killed in cold blood under USSR rule. Try reading something other then capitalist propaganda from popular media. http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?t=28616
And this article may have been written by a leftist, but it has sources.

And as for Vietnam. I don't think the Vietcong would have been able to win the war without any popular support in the people.

[Michael]

This picture was taken as the same time as a video was also recorded by Vo Suu, a cameraman for the correspondent Howard Tuckner.

http://www.famouspictures.org/mag/index.php?title=Vietnam_Execution

[Juan Gregor]

What difference does it make what the photographer thought? Apparently he likes summary executions, and making up alibis for them.

[Steve Calascione]

General Loan ended up running a laundry business in the States. He was one of lucky few to have made it out of there with his family after the fall of Saigon in 1975.

A low-key end certainly, for a man with more than the bog standard 15 minutes of fame but nonetheless far better than the chap at the other end of the barrel!

[Schlacht]

George at 3 Feb 2008 00:00:47 said:

"Jesus, every rightwing nutjob has been attracted to this article."

Well from my point of view Georgie it would seem that after all the reasonable people made an appearance the leftist rats scurried out of their dank, little holes and began squeaking and biting at the ankles of those who tower over them.

[bffuniverse]

Killing someone is not heroic.

[Billy Fivetoze]

im 50, and im a photographer, i grew up with these powerful images. the reality behind the lens is irrelavent. it happened, and Adams pressed the button. bresson would have been proud of him.

you see a cropped image. the full negative shows much more than the general and the gook. this was a warzone, and it made iraq look like a batchelor party weekend.

read michael herrs mentioned in dispatches, or charley masons chickenhawk both excellent works of war. (also on a website)

i developed my love of the art loking at work by brandt, tim page, adams and many others. as a photographer the rights and wrongs of the situation are moot. its happening, and its recorded. that is the point, and its accuracy will be judged by history and students.

the girl with napalm burns, not only was she running away from the viet cong, but she was surrounded by american troops, who just watched, and did nothing. they were cropped as it showed an indifferernce to humanity and suffering. the bhuddist monk on fire in saigon... again originally surrounded by soldiers and onlookers, yet the crop removes these people and makes the image seem surreal.

we justtake the pictures; YOU interpret them. LL&P

[Ralph Prickett]

This problem is still with us.

The VC being summarily executed was an illegal combatant. He was out of uniform, and international law permits his kind to be executed without any legal issues.

Same thing with the GTMO inmates. None of these people have any legal rights whatsoever, and can still be executed summarily.

They are lucky to be alive, or p'raps, unjustly denied their much hoped for martyrdom, 72 virgins, etc etc.

[philip]

The photogragher served in the US marines in Korea.
Only press sympathetic to the US position in Vietnam got this kind of access - he thought it was a just war.
2 million Vietnamese were murdered by US and their corrupt and brutal regime in South Vietnam. Reprisals were a common feature taken against locals.
We don't know whether the victim was a member of the Vietcong( a phrase dreamt-up to demonise those who resisted America.The Vietnamese were united against an American backed regime all over Vietnam.North and South Vietnam was purely an American creation.
This is another attempt to try and rewrite history by portraying this heinous act as a response to an even more heinous act perpetrated by the victim - without a scintilla of evidence.Quoting anonymous sources won't do.The police/army terrorised the people of Saigon throughout this time.

[Son Tran (a Vietnamese)]

Whoever supported that general is utterly insane.... Did you see the movie that capture the whole scene. Let's me describe it to you: the soldiers lead the captures VC in, and report to the general who was standing idle, chatting around with his fellows. For a moment, it seems that they didn't know what to do with that VC. To solve this "tiny" issue, the general drawn his gun, smiling with disdains, cleaving the crowd with his gun waving in his hand, approaching the VC and booom... A true devil had finished his act..... The photographer disgraced himself with his later judgment. This is why artists should not make deep comments on their works. Let the pictures says what they are carrying....

[Edwin Harper]

With the hindsight of time it is sad to know that the deaths of the prisoner and his victims has not achieved nothing worth while.

[philip]

The photogragher served in the US marines in Korea.
Only press sympathetic to the US position in Vietnam got this kind of access - he thought it was a just war.
2 million Vietnamese were murdered by US and their corrupt and brutal regime in South Vietnam. Reprisals were a common feature taken against locals.
We don't know whether the victim was a member of the Vietcong( a phrase dreamt-up to demonise those who resisted America.The Vietnamese were united against an American backed regime all over Vietnam.North and South Vietnam was purely an American creation.
This is another attempt to try and rewrite history by portraying this heinous act as a response to an even more heinous act perpetrated by the victim - without a scintilla of evidence.Quoting anonymous sources won't do.The police/army terrorised the people of Saigon throughout this time.

[Alamo]

General Loan was a hero not because of the act immortalized. He was a hero because he valiantly led his men in repelling the murdering terrorists whose primary goal during Tet was to brutally assasinate the families of governemnt officials, even those officials who were not military or police. Wanton killing of civilians and other innocents to break the will of the South Vietnamese to resist communist tyranny. You moonbat idiots who cannot conceive what Hue and Hanoi was like during the Tet terrorism with roaming hit squads murdering families across the cities have no right to condemn the actions of this man.

And its easy to tell that the lefists posting here are either too stupid or too dishonest to acknowledge the point. The journalist who took the photograph WAS there and knew exactly what conditions brought the General to execute that worthless murdering communist slime. His opinion counted.

[JB]

It didn't fit the biased agenda of the media so why would they mention it? Philip Jones Griffiths wants to promote his own propaganda and drivel as truth. The Left hates the truth; always have, always will.

[MistahTibbs]

Hey Esmerelda,

The over 100 million murdered by adherents of Communism is verifiable.

So, care to back up your little nugget re: 20 million killed per year? By whom? The Yanks? Capitalists? Which ideology do you reference?

Or are you just so deluded you'll spit out any old statement without thinking?

Silly NeoComm.

Communism is dead.

Communism is on the dustheap of history.

Thank God.

[Neil Rhodes]

It's seriously depressing the way this has become such a divisive and political issue. "Oh lefties think this.", "The US did far worse than the VC.", "The North were carrying out 1000s of executions themselves.".

Don't you get it? This image isn't about who was right and who was wrong or who was a hero. It's about the raw brutality of war and 1000 years from now when no one remembers who the VC or the ARVN were it will still convey that message. Vietnam represented the first time that these kind of images were transmitted into peoples homes.

The fact that the North were carrying out 1000s of executions, the fact that the guy being shot had already assassinated several innocent people, a badly burnt girl whether from the US or the NVA it all adds to the same outcome; War is brutal, inhumane and has a tragic effect on any country directly embroiled in it.

Left/Right, Democrat/Republican I welcome you to refute that simple fact.

[Duns Scotus]

David S above - Yes, a film exists of this incident. In many ways more shocking, not least you see the dead man in the gutter with blood gushing out. The photo above (if it had not been backed up by moving images) could have become one of these conspiracy theories - with people saying, "Yea, but he didn't pull the trigger."

[charlotte]

I remember seeing this event on TV during the War years. Believe me, I remember because the film showed after the trigger was pulled. Horrible. There most certainly was film taken and this still photo looks to be from that film. The general stepped up and shot the man and the film kept rolling as the man fell over onto the ground. So were there two people covering this? Or did the famous photo get taken from the film, shot by the same person?? I don't know but I know there was film shown on TV.

[Fred Brown]

Peasant armies can still adopt an armbadge or a mark of some kind that identifies them as soldiers. The North was so bad once they got into power that people that had stuck around for 30 years of civil war couldn't take it anymore and began to leave. They were the Vietnamese Boat people. Perhaps you've heard of them?

But wilful ignorance can never be demolished so I'm just wasting pixels...

[mahdi]

Neither of them are heroes.

[Canh Linh Humphries]

Having come from South Vietnam I can clearly see the man is Viet Cong. Whether he is a hero or not is difficult to say. He certainly showed no fear of imminent death. The expression on his face is that of someone who has carried out gruesome acts. It would not surprise me if he had committed atrocities. On the other hand General Loan is not a hero as he had upper hand. Strangely enough the photo reminds me of my young adulthood as a university student, my deep fear of communism, and how hard I had to try to escape from it.

[Da Real Americans]

I knew someone who worked with Adams. The most interesting thing about the photo is that it was taken outside. The reason for this is that Adams asked the General to shoot him outside--a point to seems to be lost. The reason was that the lighting inside was bad.

Nice to see all you swiftboaters and Vietnam revisionists out there. Too bad we real Americans are going to kick your butts from the New York islands to the Redwood forests this year, so stick that in your colostomy bags old chaps.

[michael bulger]

if your were not ther you do not understand i was i do

the general was justified

[michael bulger]

all the hero's are dead this is the problem with the usa

we can not find a hero to say I want to be like him or her. most peoples vision of a hero is not a true hero but a perosn that says what they want to here

they are all dead

[Kane Treville]

"Likewise, the fact that the poor girl running naked from the horror of war was in fact running from enemy violence, not US, matters not at all, either."

You mean the girl with the napalm burns from the Vietcong airforce attack?

[George sign]

Interesting the talk of whether this photograph tells the truth. Already by just stating this you have another half truth. This photo was in fact a still from a film. It is shown on the film Zeitgeist the movie

[Jacko]

There was definitely cine film of the shooting. I saw it in 'Frontline', a doco about Australian combat cameraman Neil Davis. General Loan was a jolly chap. When he met Davis, he said, "Someday I kill you." Check out this for the story of Loan's shooting of the Vietnamese prisoner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Davis

[benniec]

GEN. WAS HERO HE SEEN ,POSSIBLE 911 IN HIS COUNTRY. I WISH SOME HERE HAD TAKEN THE BULLET

[Paddy]

As a photographer recording the world, good or bad, goes with the job.
Is it any surprise that so many photographers are targetted by those in authority?
I some places killed, in others held without legal representation, here in the UK banned from public places where commercial interests rule and then there's the Police who would rather not be caught on film, or allow reporting of things they would rather keep from the public eye....
Rest assured though, the cellphone camera age is here, and a lot more photographs are taken now than ever before...

[Adam Primus]

All this political posturing and debating of Geneva conventions etc. seem to me to be somewhat beside the point. As many people here have pointed out, it is rather straightforward; Enemy combatant caught out of uniform summarily executed - that's war. But then why was an entirely different message conveyed at the time? I don't recall any of these points raised at the time, because the war for the hearts & mind of the US citizens had already been lost, and there could have been no pro-war iconic images.
You can say it was propaganda at the time, but propaganda is a weapon available to all; the mindset of the public by then would, for the most part, only see it one way.
Personally, while I think the photographer's views should be known, I don't think they are as important as the image itself. An image has no partisan viewpoint to put over, the viewer imparts his/her own view.

[DiogenesAX]

I think mass conscription changed the rules for non-combatants. Basically conscription says everyone of fighting age is a potential combatant.

So what the people above are saying is that if you can afford a uniform you get special treatment. But if you can't you are shot out of hand.

That I imagine is beside the point in this case, which is why this is a comment on the commentators not on the General who I never met and therefore can not characterise.

[Charlie]

I remember the picture very well & also that General Laon's friend's family had just been annihilated.The question is "Who is the hero?" Neither one. One was doing what he thought was his duty [albeit influenced by his personal feelings & anger}. The other had done his duty. All the rest of the hype about the Geneva Convention[which I have read,& initialled official documents as having read] is irrelevant. Answer the question.

[Charlie]

I remember the picture very well & also that General Laon's friend's family had just been annihilated.The question is "Who is the hero?" Neither one. One was doing what he thought was his duty [albeit influenced by his personal feelings & anger}. The other had done his duty. All the rest of the hype about the Geneva Convention[which I have read,& initialled official documents as having read] is irrelevant. Answer the question.

[Richard, Nottingham]

So in conclusion. I can't trust a word that the BBC Radio-4 Today program broadcasts. Tell me something I don't know !! I had established that Today was inaccurate and damn right misleading a long time ago. The Hutton inquiry, etc just helped to confirm those sentiments. The BBC outputs some of the worst journalistic inaccuracies around.

[Picolo]

Is there any such thing as a war that is not evil?

Therefore, why expect actions taken in time of war not to be evil, and why cry when they are? Weep instead for those who declare wars, and send your children to fight in them, for they shall never understand the evil that they unleash.

There are some ex-soldiers who say that wars are merely the tools of the haves for controlling the have-nots. Once they would send you in a line towards an enemy machine gun. Today they send you into battle without protective equipment. Tomorrow it will be something different, but sadly, just the same.

[ken]

The bottom line is this: if you are not in a uniform, you are not covered by the protections in the Geneva convention. Period. At the end of WWII, our soldiers executed many german soldiers either not in uniform, or found in possesion of weapons. These were summary executions, and completely legal. This is one of the problems we have in Iraq and Afghanistan today. We continuously allow persons in a war zone to walk around armed to the teeth, mainly because we have insufficient numbers of soldiers there. Had we done the same thing in WWII, we would still be there fighting a guerilla war today.

[Jerry D]

The uniform issue is irrelevant. Would those who think the execution was OK because he was not in uniform, have considered it wrong if the victim had been wearing a uniform or an armband? Was summary execution of French Resistance fighters by the SS OK because they were not in uniform?

The point is that war is part of human behaviour. By making rules we have tried to prevent the worst abuses. But many people think that the rules are only valid in defending people you agree with. For people you don't like, forget the rules. But that is just like saying your football team need not obey the rules but the other side must. This is not to say that war is a game. Just that justifying evil acts by saying, "They did it first," shows that you are as bad as they are.
Why do we have to have wars?

[Jerry D]

The uniform issue is irrelevant. Would those who think the execution was OK because he was not in uniform, have considered it wrong if the victim had been wearing a uniform or an armband? Was summary execution of French Resistance fighters by the SS OK because they were not in uniform?

The point is that war is part of human behaviour. By making rules we have tried to prevent the worst abuses. But many people think that the rules are only valid in defending people you agree with. For people you don't like, forget the rules. But that is just like saying your football team need not obey the rules but the other side must. This is not to say that war is a game. Just that justifying evil acts by saying, "They did it first," shows that you are as bad as they are.
Why do we have to have wars?

[Viet Vet 69]

General was executing a spy who had killed wives and children of fellow officers and relatives.

Who wouldn't have done the same thing?

I do not remember the rational being publicised at the time the picture was shown.

[alan]

Those "not in uniform" may not be protected by the Geneva Conventions. But the Geneva Conventions do not say that they must be summarily executed.
This man was unarmed and helpless. To shoot him in the head was an act of barbarity.
Maybe it was understandable. But it was not heroic.

[Calan]

This Viet Cong soldier was playing his part in a national liberation struggle against a viciously armed, super power aggressor.

Having rid Vietnam of the Colonial French mere decades before, the Viet Cong galvanised all sectors of Vietnam society into a seemingly impossible fight against another Imperial power - the USA.

The USA used some of the most hellish chemical weapons, WMD and mass bombing to attempt to destroy resistance by complete might & terror.
The victims of these weapons are found anew today - babies born with abnormalities are common due to the sheer amount of US placed poisons present in the environment.

Like the woad-painted Scots against the mighty Roman Empire, the poorly equipped Vietnamese resistance sent the aggressor homeward. The vision of young Viet Cong without even shoes coming and taking over the last USA outpost was iconic, and gave hope to many people across the world who felt oppressed as colonial playgrounds.

Today Vietnam is a growing prosperous country, with a great love of Uncle Ho Chi Minh and those who sacrificed so much to gain control over their own destiny.

Yet ask someone in the West how many died in Vietnam - they will answer around 58,000. There is no account of the millions of young Vietnamese cut down in this monstrous war.
And this is exactly the same attitude many have with Iraq and Afghanistan - faceless millions written off as merely collateral damage - some fuzzy mass which we wash our hands of as if we have nothing to do with any of it.

History and humanity can break through the walls of propaganda we are surrounded by - their blood cries out from the very ground.

[Joe Ryan]

Would you Has-beens quit arguing over who was right in then 60's. Left and right, collectively, you have proven to be the lamest nitwit generation ever born. You have collectively screwed Everything up with your slavish devotion to your two beloved party's. When are you going to start thinking like individuals and start doing what's right for the country, instead of proving to all that your are the most selfish bunch of hypocrites that ever lived. Get out of the way with your 1960's battles. It's obvious you would all like to put a bullet in each others head at the first opportunity if it was legal to do so, or if you thought you could get away with it. Now we have to import millions of immigrants because you blew all your saving on all kinds of stupidity; and somebody has to take care of you now. Would you all just knock it off. After 40 years of your sniping and crying about the evil 'liberals' and the evil 'conservatives', the rest of us want to your whole generation to shut the f up. By the way, when we have to stand up to the troops of the new world order, it's reassuring to know that they can execute me anywhere they find me, unless I come up with a uniform. You don't even know what the NWO is and when it's arriving because your still obsessed with Vietnam. Idiots.

[Jason]

Perhaps the Times could put this story to good use and dig back and find the source of this distorted story. Find out who was actually responsible for ruining the Generals reputation and life, as it was not the photographer. It was some Editor, who wanted to sell newspapers or his view.If its in print it can be found. Also the so called Journalists who helped to ruin his life in the States should be ferreted out as well, and have shame heaped upon them. Everybody deserves 15 minutes.

[Robert]

Proper caption for the photo should have read something like "Mass-murdering communist assassin gets his just desserts from one of the targets he set out to kill."

[Ting Tong]

RE: Pax Dickinson's comments...

How many innocents has 'Capitalism' killed, slaughtered, murdered over the years?

And.. Lets not forget how many peoples were wiped out by 'Western colonialism'

There is no moral high ground to be had by stating 'Communism' is 'bad', and then failing to address the short comings of your own 'ideology'.

Aye?

[Europhile]

Who are all these upholders of the Geneva Convention? Americans I'll be bound.

Given the ignorance of the average American I'd wager hardly one of them knows much about the Convention - or even where Geneva is.

"American Exceptionalism" is an admirable new addition to our terminology. These goons think they can perpetrate any atrocity anywhere in the world with impunity - simply because they're American.

When the American soldiery commit war crimes, and are protected by their government, I'll wager again that not many, if any, of these Geneva Convention experts have anything to say.

May I add that the life of any individual on this planet is as valuable as that of any American.

[William Bergmann]

General Loan took the law into his own hands and executed a man based upon his own judgement alone. He was wrong. If the general was an American he would be up on charges. If the prisoner was an American he would have been a casualty that would have to be answered for. Battlefield executions of prisoners are the work of the losers as General Loan demonstrated. America supported a corrupt government and mislead the Vietnamese people for which it paid a very high price. America is doing the same again in Iraq.

[Grist for the mill]

Nguyễn Văn Lém lies in his own country while General Nguyan Ngoc Loan lies in a foreign one. General Nguyan Ngoc Loan's former ally has realised the value of having an antagonistic Vietnam on China's southern border and U.S. barriers to Vietnam are being lowered. Who won certainly not these two puppets

[S.A. Smith]

Nothing to see here. The left simply expressing its sympathy with an ideological brother.

[aiswarya]

The irony of the photograph is that
Its neither Hero nor Villain. I thought its title should be "Hats off Hands down" The truth could have been just that.

[aiswarya]

The irony of the picture is that it neither has a hero nor a villain. I thought the picture does not reveal any great truth. I feel the photographer would have captioned had he been asked; as "Hats off to Hands down"

[john e macgregor]

To me, both are criminals, but more so the general.Sumarry execution is not available to members of armed services. There is no doubt that the general completely undermined the reason for Americas intervention in Vietnam.

[Rob]

Grow up Britian. That is war.

[busta balloon]

There are some interesting comments here. The incident depicted in the picture is symbolic of the savagery and hypocricy of the Vietnam war. It is a minuscule example of the wider horrors that occurred there.
The beautiful country of Vietnam was used as a political and military chess board by China, America and USSR.The Vietnamese were the victims of this fruitless ideological struggle, especially civilians who were caught in the middle. Cambodia suffered likewise. Very sad from beginning to end .

[Bondy]

All's fair in love and war.Geneva Convention? The VC weren't recognised as a country, government or anything so how could they sign up to that.The US are all powerful so do they care? This is what happens when men go to war. It's ugly, it's futile and it's just plain wrong but are they criminals? The real criminals are the governments behind it all. And look whats happens when they get away with it.Deja vu Iraq. Goodbye world.

[dardar]

This remains a shocking and powerful image whatever the photographer was thinking at the time or later. This is the image of war that anyone who has ever been in a warzone will recognise and why there is so much debate nowadays about rules of engagement and international agreements.

It is the apparent off-hand casualness of this image that I remember most vividly. At least his executioner blew his brains out and therefore did not prolong his sufferring. This is not war Hollywood style with heroes and villains but merely the killing of one man by another because that was what you do when life became this worthless and noone really cares who lives or dies. And that is the tragedy of war where people become numbers on a tally sheet and everyones a loser.

After two world wars the international community tried with the League of Nations and after the second the United Nations. We should always remember the importance of such organisations if we are to prevent war which leads men to act in this way towards one another and not ride rough shod over them when we feel like it. Remember that it is the so called developed world that equips much of the developing world with weapons and military know how whilst at the same time blaming wars for atrocities and famine and bleating when the weapons are turned back on them.

[Luke]

In response to Jim's comment (1 Feb 2008 20:27:39)
If the "poor girl running naked from the horror of war" is that other iconic photo from Vietnam, then I think it is totally false for you to suggest "it was in fact ... enemy violence, not US" that she was running from. What the photo shows is a girl running naked from her napalmed village. She had torn of her napalm covered clothes and was still being burnt by the napalm on her skin.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the NVA (much less the viet cong) used napalm during the war.
"Mythology"? It sounds like you're trying to start some yourself!
You might have made a valid point, if your information wasn't so obviously wrong.

[John Bradford]

There was indeed of film shot of this also. I remember it well. It's just so refreshing to read the America bashing from you wonderful folks. America truly is to blame for everything, it seems. They invented the whole North vs South Vietnam thing, is that right? Seems all is right with humanity in general, except for that rotten old America. Those bloodthirsty, capitalist, imperialist Americans. Except that this picture is of two Vietnamese.

[Adele]

Someone said...

"the only real killing I have seen on TV"

I always found the photo distressing, but when I saw the clip, geez did that turn my stomach - you do not usually SEE people being killed on TV, and here we did. That's the importance of the images for me - the fact that man was shot and I saw it :(

I didn't think about who they were, or what they'd done, in fact I always thought it 'was' a US soldier doing the shooting (glad I read this!).

[Jonis L.]

Tragic photo and the situation it was taken in. Of all the people making comments here, have any of you served in actual ground combat? I have, three times. I'm not excusing the actions you see in that photo but I'm here to tell you that things happen in combat that you will never see in real life. Forget all about Geneva, the only thing holding you in check is your own moral code and the lives of the men around you that are trying to exist in the hell that is war.

[Mike Douglas]

To Submandave, and all the others: so then, if Iran would capture a US special forces soldier operating without uniform (like in Afghanistan!) or a CIA officer gathering intelligence, and were to execute him on the spot, you would be saying 'fair enough', 'it's the geneva convention'. Always the same hypocrisy! And what a bloodthirsty attitude! What a shameful thing to say, one wonders where decency s meant to come from in this world.

[candice potrafka]

Eddie Adams opinions of the photo are important because he saw the moments before and after he captured this particular moment of time on film. His regret in taking this photo shows that there are alot of people (some you would not expect) affected by an act of violence.

[Sherri McNamee/Florida]

What a powerful image. In this case, it is definitely true that a photo only tells half the story. Up until now, I have always thought of the man being executed as the victim.

[Roger]

War correspondents/photographers have to sell their work and are always trying to outdo their rivals. e.g. a wannabe photographer (a US Marines groupie) in Vietnam thought a picture of a man's face at the moment of death would be a seller so he got his camera fixed on a rifle. To succeed his plan would need someone (a soldier) to shoot a restrained person (prisoner). In the case of General Loan the prisoner was dragged up to the camera tripod and positioned on chalk marks on the ground so the photographer would have accurate focus. Forget about the rules of war etc. This was just shoddy show business in a situation where life was cheap or worthless.

[James Chen]

Over a million Vietnamese left the country in boats (re: "Boat People") after the fall of South Vietnam, and hundreds of thousands of them pershing in their attempt. Around 500,000-1,000,000 were executed or sent to slave labor camps immediately after the end of the Civil War. Some liberation.

[Jennifer]

I am an American and can tell you this photo is not real.

[Phil/England]

Interesting to note how the timely and righteous shooting of a terrorist is criticised by some. Same folk who defend more modern terrorism I imagine.

[ro]

Here in Vietnam they're both remembered, especially as this was the 40th anniversary of the '68 uprising.

They're Vietnamese and they represent the contradictions still present in this culture. In many ways they're both heroes and murderers. And they're both dead.

RIP, guys.

[MT]

One of the world's most iconic and powerful images and undoubtedly the "who was the hero?" issue is interesting. But surely the the point of real significance that is so fascinating to hear coming from the photgrapher himself is that "photographs do lie, even without manipulation. They are only half-truths."

And yet our perceptions of so many vital issues around the world are still influenced enormously by the use of still and moving images in our media. From the images provided by "embedded" journalists with our armed forces to the beheading and hostage videos released by terrorists, the images we see are manipulated for some greater or (in the case of the terrorists) lesser purpose and then eagerly passed on by our media. Time for a health warning on the news perhaps?

[Celynne]

A photograph is not of itself an opinion. The undeniable power of this image is that it is truly shocking - the camera's impartial eye recorded a casual murder, of a man who no longer posed a threat (regardless of his dress). Do not excuse his actions by misquoting the Geneva Convention, or saying 'well, this is war', or 'he deserved what he got'. Justice should be for courts, not self-appointed executioners. If the 'good guys' don't act any better than their enemies, what are they fighting for exactly? Civilisation depends on people remembering this, even under extreme pressure. It's something the US would do well to remember.

[David Brown]

Jennifer:

It is known who the people involved were. General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan never denied having executed Nguyễn Văn Lém. Eddie Adams took the still shown above, and Vo Suu the television footage to which some posters refer above.

I have two questions for you:
1. With that wealth of evidence, how can you say that the "photo is not real"?
2. How does your nationality make you more qualified than anyone else to judge the matter?