Obama and the Jewish question

Will the Jews sink Obama?

That's the question asked by Mike Madden over on Salon.

The theory isn't hard to grasp. Here it is:

The GOP is already pushing, and pushing hard, the idea that Obama has a problem with the Jewish vote, because of his proposals to sit down to negotiate with Iranian leaders who have threatened Israel, because of his former pastor's ties to Louis Farrakhan and (though most Republicans don't bring this up) because of false fears that Obama is secretly Muslim.

So do I buy it? I do not.

To start off there's the maths. Yes there are a few key states with a Jewish vote theoretically big enough to swing the contest against Obama.

But this involves the sort of figure work people were using a month or so ago to suggest that Hillary would win using superdelegates. The plurality of Jews voting against Obama would have to be great and that is simply not realistic. Even if there is a small swing away from Kerry's Jewish numbers, it is unlikely to be big enough to make a decisive difference.

However, I accept that the votes of Jews isn't entirely irrelevant. Which brings me to a second point. Jews don't vote exclusively, even mainly, on foreign policy. That's true here and it's true in America.

Nobody could have tilted so far towards the standard Jewish views on Israel as George Bush yet still Jews voted overwhelmingly for his opponents. The view of conspiracy theorists and lazy analysts that the Jewish vote in the US has been the critical feature of US elections and Middle East policy simply isn't borne out by the historical record.

US policy in the Middle East reflects US interests and US values. Not Jewish influence.

If they don't vote predominantly on so-called Jewish issues then what does determine Jewish votes?

Overwhelmingly it is liberal sentiment. From marching with Martin Luther King to becoming a mainstay of Democratic fundraising, Jews have overwhelmingly identified with the liberal movement in America.

I think Obama will have a great deal of appeal to Jews.

Comments

[Alex R]

Of course Joe Lieberman was Gore's running mate in 2000, which was an obviously pull for the Jewish vote.

[Desmond Taylor]

Hamas wants him to be President. Louis Farrakhan receives an award from his church. Generally Jews are like blacks. It does not matter how badly the Democrats kick them, they always come back for more. I guess it is battered ethnic syndrome.

[Ian]

Most of us in the Jewish community here in southern Florida view the possibility of Obama being president with great apprehension. He has too many ties to elements which we find very distasteful, politically and socially. Indeed the days of the Democratic party enjoying a majority of Jewish votes are over. Joe Lieberman's public endorsement of Senator McCain to my congregation is yet another example of this shifting of political alignments.

[Julia Iskandar]

Thank you. Plain common sense without hysterics or innuendo. I'm sick of the many cases of "lashon hara" against Obama and against the other assorted "enemies du jour". It's a sin as well as a stupidity, and in the end it doesn't even work.

[Ben]

Even presuming that there is such a thing as an unified "Jewish voting block", I am not sure the number of Jewish votes is the primary point of interest here. Jews account for under 2% of the US population. As a voting block, Jews are a fraction of the African-American vote, the Hispanic vote or even the Cuban vote (given its relative importance in Florida).

But in terms of fund raising prowess and networking connections (see Harvey Weinstein's influential support of Hillary), the Jewish vote is impossible for Obama to ignore. Those who think he is blind to this or is unable to appeal to the Jewish vote would be well advised to look at Obama's rise in Chicago where he once styled himself as "Barruch" Obama.

[elle eda]

"hamas wants him to be president...generally jews are like blacks.."

what rock did you call out from under? battered ethnic syndrome indeed..really? mister desmond, you require a serious rear-end thrashing for merely thinking such rabid rubbish..would you prefer if hamas issued a fatwa on Obama because his father renounced Islam? hmmm? would that be to your tastes?

I'm just grateful that you and your ilk simply dont matter anymore.
also, if i may, better start getting used to seeing and hearing alot more of President Obama....

[NKC]

I'm sick of all the "predictions". Just let the candidates present their case and count the votes of the people. We will all know the outcome in November, but until then, just shut up with all of the predictions. The media and pundits act as if they have psychic powers to predict the outcome of this race. At the present time, only God knows who will win. We have to wait until his will is unveiled in November.

[Scott]

I'd be curious what exactly some Jewish people think Obama is going to do that would hurt them. He's not going to arm Hamas or completely give away the West Bank or anything. The most he'll do is try to talk with them and see what progress can be made. The two state solution is what the mainstream on both sides want now. I just don't see anything he can do to make it worse on either side. If Iran is their worry, I hope they realize that the Bush administration are the ones that have given Iran what power they have right now. We've removed their two biggest enemies, the Taliban and Saddam.

[James Brown]

If Obama is perceived to stand for fair play and justice,he is in for big shock.There is always an extremist group amongst humans who will feel so badly threatened that they can repeat the fate of Abraham Lincoln,JFK, Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi.Mankind has a long way to go before the Neanderthal instincts are subordinated.

[Daphne Kenward]

This time the God of Abraham Issac & Jacob, has already decided who the next President will be, what we think will not make any difference, who had heard of Obama till last year, has any one took stock of where this guy is coming from. Think of Hillary every one knew her every one had heard of her, has it done her any favours, no!. McCain with his WAR crimes and Blood on his hands of innocent Vietnamese Women & Children he Napalmed in Vietnam, he calls him self a hero, he may have forgotten but the world has not. What he needs to do is go before the God of Creation and ask for forgiveness for his crimes against humanity. This whole campaign is based on change, and what McCain needs to do is ask himself why people want change. It is because people are sick of the mass murder under a flag. And sick of seeing their sons & daughters being murdered in far flung places around the world, the man that says it best is RON PAUL. McCain should ask himself why so many people respect Ron Paul because what he says is true, people want the truth. McCain's idea that he can claim to be able to Kill Bin Layden, if that was true, he is electioneering on a pack of lies, he wants the troops home in 2013, where is the Garantee?. Before he wanted them over there indefinately. Never thought of who was going to pay for it, or how it was to be paid for. Just like the Bush Administration, thought the war would be over in a few months nearly five years later it is on going. over 4'000 Service men & women dead far more than Sept 11th fighting a war based on a lie. And in the process bankrupting the country, and has made a disaster of the American economy, I don't think any one with any sense has any time for McCain's half baked ideas unless they are the rich & priviledged.

[Daphne Kenward]

If Jimmy Carter could not get peace in the Middle East what hope has anyone else got. Why Would Hammas think Obama is more favourable. There are many deluded fools out there, peace can only be acheived if Israel & the Palestinians want peace, no one can bring them peace, thats is the first folly, it take two to have a war, incase the many idiots out there do not know the simple logic of war & peace. There has been many meeting & many peace talks, has anyone seen any peace out there?. Because peace can only be acheived by two groups of people who want to live in peace. Egypt makes 9 Billion per year as the go between, why would they want peace while war is so profitable. The Israelis Gets grants in Many Billions per year and WMD from America, why would they want peace, while the focus is on Palestinians, the rest of the Arab world gets on with their lives. Lately it is said IRAN has been giving Guns & Bombs to various groups, what is the difference between what American is doing from what the Iranians is doing, what is the difference?. America created the Talabans, funded them, the Americans funded Saddam and Armed him with Chemical & Biological warfare. And later the whole Evil seem to have backfired, which is what Rev Wright meant when he said Americans Chickens are coming home to Roost.
It's all Irans favour, the Iranian leader he is now uniting with Iraq and other neighbouring countries, could not have happend without Americas help. Now we have the Last Empire at WAR with the First Empire, that is an IRONY!. Ever Heard of Babalon, it's now called Iraq.

[Expat]

It's not the Jewish vote that matters, per se, it's the Likudnik lobby power players. If they line up against him, so will the media and he will be torpedoed. Of course, a respectable columnist is not allowed to say this!

[Michael]

Surely it is premature to speculate on this. Polling in the USA is not for another 5-months. A week can be along time in politics.This is plenty of time for the Markets and in particular the US Dollar to take a hard knock with the seemingly interminable Mid East crisis.
To save the US Dollar from a total collpase, GW Bush may be forced to have to try and do a deal with the man in Iran, and God forbid, regardless of the feelings of the Israelis

[Ndim Bernard Ngouche]

I wish to plead that politics should not be mingled with race. American politicians should not play the race card and should show the world that truly they have come over racism and any American can become president if voted. This is the moment for America to stand or fall into abys and get condemnation from the world.

[Al Ramy]

I don't believe the writers have a clue how the sentiment of the diverse American Jews can change by November 9.2009. On every corner there is an expert on the U,S elections yet few can quantify what are the priorities of each voter of a particular ethnic group. The recent elections proved that the so called "observers" with their hi-tech polling technology, the Bradley effect, and the relentless media endorsement of a particular candidate can throw off the analysts and produce results that completely negate what they advertised as a given. I cannot imagine that many Jews find Obama that appealing based on his thin resume and his amateurish positions on the environment, energy, the Middle East and the economy. To many, he is a fraud. Therefore, voting for the "other" is the only other choice. As his mother said: "You put your finger up your nose and vote for John"

[Daphne Kenward]

Well let me let you guys into a secret. If Hillary cant win, and we know McCain has no chance & Warren Buffet has wrote him of with no chance,Warren Buffet in Here in Europe, he know where to invest & how one of Americas biggest & best says McCain may as well pack up now and save the waste of money. So if it is not Hillary, and it can't be McCain, who do we have left. OBAMA there is your man. I know Warren is right.

[Daphne Kenward]

Forget the Negative campaigning Rev Wright who was taken out of contex is not running for president, forget Louis Farrakhan, he is not running, the last time I heard about him he is greatful to be alive following an operation. He has perhaps said a lot of negative things, and a lot of positive things, the good thing about an education you can pick out what makes sense from what does not. Fox News is great at doing just that they edit out the message to create their own, and keep playing it to mislead people, who lack the ability to find the whole video. FOX NEWS is a GUTTER CHANNEL, there is never any news on there just twisted false stories what we call gutter press designed by fools for fools.

[neil watson]

Actually, I think Obama is an unknowing stooge of the International Z-men Conspiracy. They are secretly promoting him knowing that he will lose in the actual election. Cunning those Elders, eh?!

[Gregory Mapp]

This whole issue of Isreal's security is utterly rediculous. The security of Isreal is a permanent US policy. And whether it be a Republican or Democratic President, that will not change. Thus, this scare-mongering about Obama allowing Isreal to go to the dogs is dispicable. This is the reason why the voters have, in the three most recent congressional elections, rejected this kind of dirty politics and are going to reject it in November. The Republican attack machine is out of business and are well advised to retool.

[ken beard]

anyone who doesn't think that the jewish lobby leads the US by the nose, where mid-east policy is concerned, is living on another planet!

[dePaul Consiglio]

The historic riff between American Jews and Blacks stems from Jewish Plantation Owners in The Massachusettes Bay Colony and Plantation States.
When Rhode Island came into the Union it had to give up it's position on slavery. Many Jews moved south and took their slaves with them. Hence the enmity between the two groups.Those that had to travel were seen as not having a real choice. The Jewish slave owners were forever seen as the boss man or owner of the Black worker after slavery was abolished and carried forward in some circles till this day.
For this remnant Mr Obama could lose some support. But mostly,if he loses any support among American Jewry it's probably going to be his clearly lacking experience in foreign policy. I hope it isn't enough to lose him the election.
Why?
Superstition. There's too much elation around Mr Obama's chances at the White House.
Remember Truman v Dewey?

dePaul Consiglio
Monsey NY US

[J. R.]

I agree with NKC concerning the "predictions of the Novembers USA presidential outcome". Whoever is elected our creator will have the final say...He directed the prophet Daniel to record in Daniel 2:20-22 "Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are His.
He changes times and seasons;
He sets up kings(no matter the title) and deposes them.
He gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to the discerning.
So Be It...

[zqll]

These are quotes from "Rev." Wright:
“Do you know some of these satanic Jews have taken over BET?… Everything that we built, they have. The mind of Satan now is running the record industry, movie industry and television. And they make us look like we’re the murders; we look like we’re the gangsters, but we’re punk stuff.”
“Justifiable Homicide: Black Youth in Peril (Part 3)” speech at Mosque Maryam, 11/11/07
“The real anti-Semites are those who came out of Europe and settled in Palestine, and now they call themselves the true Jews, when in fact, they converted to Judaism.”
Al Jazeera TV interview, 3/18/07

And many other such bigotted quotes can be found all over the internet going back years if people here would just look.

And for 20 years Obama kept silent.

[Noel Hadjimichael]

Whilst a simplistic answer to the question would be: not likely, we need to remember that big changes are occuring in political circles. The leaders and the followers (the lower scale activists) in most liberal democratic societies are now of the generations that are very distant from the concerns and experiences of Israel and the diaspora. In US terms, see for a shift from left/liberal politics to centre/right moderate politics. In the same way as Jewish voters have shown a tendency to shift away from the Left as it has expressed more and more an anti-Israel or at least an anti-Zionism position. My suggestion: a 60:40 split favouring the Dems amongst Jewish voters in November - but the loss of FL, Penn, Nev and Con to the Dems with a possible loss of OH as well. Today's teenage Jewish voters will not become rusted on Democrats.

[leigh vernier]

Jewish 'problem' in USA is nothing to do with Obama. It is MidEast, Arabs, Muslims seeing USA as in thrall to Jewish lobby. "The Jews run America" is the mantra. Many other global communities agree. Next president MUST fix this or USA will remain one of the "most hated" nations. You could start by responding to "Nakba"(catastrophe)
as well as Israels's 60th.

[Rui, form Portugal]

I hope Obama does not forget the Irak Christians, a comunity of 1 million in Saddam times that is now believed to be down to a quarter-million and endagered by islamic agressiveness and the the pax americana.. a very deadly one in those parts...

[des egan]

You very conveniently miss the main point of the infuence of the Jews and the Jewish vote.
Of course the number of Jews who vote is irrelevent. It is quoted 2% of the population of USA are Jewish. I very much doubt that. If there is 1 milliom Jews in USA I would be very surprised. In UK there is an estimated 280,000 Jews a very small minority of the population! Yet in the UK as in the USA this small minority has a vastly disproportionate say on the politcal scene. they own all of the propaganda machines ie the newspapers, the TV stations and a disproportionate number of members of parliment. If any one criticises Israel they are anti semetic. On the day that Bush visited Israel to celebrate their anniversary the papers were full of how a rocket landed in a shopping mall in Irael, no one was injured! No mention that on the same day 4 innocent Palestinines had been brutaly murdered by the very well armed Israeli Army of Occupation. Yet another example of the way the Jews control the Press and news media in both the USA and UK!

[Gama]

Today the US of Amnesia is like the pre-WW2 Germany. Anything worth controlling is in the hands of 2% of the population whose patriotism is more than suspect. The recent dispossession of their homes is another event reminiscent of Germany.

He who 'counts' the votes will decide Obama's fate.

[Remco]

Daphne - I regret that you feel that US support for Israel (a democratic, UN-recognised country) is in any way similar to Iran supporting various organisations in the Levant, which are employing terrorist and totalitarian practices - as agreed by most reasonable observers. The reasons for these organisations' existence might very well be logically understood when you look at the history of Palestine/Israel, but that - in my humble opinion - doesn't mean we should condone them.

And as for Leigh's comment about the "MidEast, Arabs, Muslims seeing USA as in thrall to Jewish lobby": this ought not be the the biggest worry. The biggest worry by far is the cultural and social elite in Western Europe actually believing these nihilist, fascist ideas. As soon as the people of the Middle East stop blaming others for their socioeconomic problems we might see a more permanent peace.

[Andre]

Moot point. There are not enough Jews to change the result of the election. The only racial group that could (collectively), destroy Senator Obama's chances are the Hispanics (Florida, California, Texas) and they would have to vote overwhelmingly Republican to do it ... very unlikely.

Face it people ... we will have to put up with at least four years of President Obama - just like you Brits will have at least three years of Gordon Brown.

(People are desperate for changed policies on energy, environment, war, food and anyone who promises them that will be elected at the moment).

[xorla kuivi]

the media tried times without number to sabotage obama but it didn't work,why not leave this guy alone.u don't have any say neither can u change the music so jews or no jews the lowly is lifted;shame.come on obama, go 4 victory.be blessed

[yao]

leave obama alone .dam u this media

[Eric Skelton]

Jewish support for civilrights/progressive causes never ceases to baffle me. All my right wing friends are philosemitic and my lefty aquaintancies,well..not.
Hasn't the 'hand that feeds' been bitten enough?

[Robert]

ALEX R: "Leiberman was a pull for the Jewish votes."

Grr. Danny's point is precisely the opposite - that the Jewish vote is liberal anyway, and Democrats don't need to pander. Leiberman certainly wasn't chosen by Gore to bring over the Jewish block - that would be stupid and superfluous.

[KES]

Rubbish article.
'US policy in the Middle East reflects US interests and US values. Not Jewish influence.'
Oh please, do you know how stupid this sounds?
What are the votes of jewish citizens; or infact any citizens going to do anyway?
US foriegn policy is forever tied to the security of israel, regardless of republican or democrat; obama or hillary.
However, should obama try to go against this, which is unlikely cause you he couldn't have got this far, then yes jews will sink him. That is of course, jews within the white house, and most jewish voters are pro- israel anyway and I think its stupid to say that they donnot vote exclusively on foriegn policy, its the main part.
And of course, because Obama has suggested to negotiate with the Iranians and the fact that he has ties with farakhan and lived in malaysia and he wore some tribal clothing once, im mean of course!!! it all adds up really, why didn't anyone realise this before??- Idiots.
Shows how people still see Islam, when it isn't even the problem.

[Honest Boy]

Isn't it about time the rest of the world stood out against the moral blackmail being levied by the Israelis on the NATO countries?
Everyone bar a few neo-Nazis
and other anti-Semites knows that the Holocaust took place and that six million Jewish men, womenb and children were exterminated but that fact, and the motto "Never Again"
have driven the State Of Israel to deeds whicxh would be called war crimes if they were performed by any other country and all they have had is a few weak slaps on the wrist from the U.N.
I hold no brief for Hamas or any other of the Palestinian guerilla groups but the fact remains that the Arabs were in possession of Palestine lomng before there was any "Jewish Problem" in Europe and they are doing exactly what Hagana and the Irgun Zvi Leumi were doing in the 1940's; fighting for thIt masy eir homeland with all the means at their disposal. It may be difficult
after sixty years of civil war but isn,t it time for a little trust? I think that both sides should be reminded of the quote from the Gospel "He who lives by the sword will perisah by the sword"

[barey]

ken beard | 20 May 2008 01:11:51
The historic riff between American Jews and Blacks stems from Jewish Plantation Owners.....When Rhode Island came into the Union it had to give up it's position on slavery. Many Jews moved south and took their slaves"
Ken i don't know what books did u read this from but the anger or hate toward Jews by black starts at the 70's up till then they both had the same target which was equal rights and Jew and African American died at the event at Mississippi more so the Jews where among the founder of the equal rights movement in the us.
the Jews moved on with there life to become rich, educated, powerful but most of the black community stayed the same and so the Jews became the boss and the other is plain angry at the Jew success

[Cassandra]

Nothing so proves the level of anti-Jewish bigotry and ignorance as some of these posts. Fact: the Jewish vote in the USA is generally liberal. Fact: Obama was a member of a Chicago church with a racist pastor for 20 years. He defended this man Wright when the story about Wright's flamboyant rhetoric in his "God damn America" speech made the national news. Fact: Obama's religion was listed as "muslim" in the Catholic school he attended as a child. These are facts. You may infer from them what you like, but facts are facts.

[Daphne Kenward]

REMCO: Read my postings again, where did I say in it that I do not think Israel should be a democratic country or America should not support Israel? no where. My comment is ste fairly and squarely America Funded the Talabans which is true it is documented, can be varified. 2nd The Americans FUNDED Iraq under SADDAM with chemical & biological agents to kill his own people & the Iranians & it could have been used on the People in the Golf war, Many service men & women suffer from what is called Gulf war Syndrome. If America did not supply SADDAM they would not have known that they needed Masques. Those WMD were distroyed under instructions of the UN inspectors. I have not said any thing in my statement that can not be substanciated. SADDAM may well have been a Nasty person but so has many succesive American Politicans. There are many that should have been tried for war crimes, & crimes against hmanity Nixon being one. Regan another G W Bush another. So we can play pretend if it suits our war of thinking, but my way of thinking is about Freedom & Justice for all the peoples of the world encluding Jewish people and all peoples of the world. If I had two children and I was stupid enough to treat one more favourable than the other it would not surprise me if the one I treated unjustly grew up to hate me. Which is what is happening between Israel & the Plaestinians. the Children of the next generation will have grown in a hate filled environment, fuled by bias against one another. When does the KILLING stop my dear, think about it. As for Iran they Have no History of attacking a single country in the Area of the Middle East or any where else on earth. What is going on in the Middle East is called BRITAIN & AMERICA in prophecy. If you want to know more try your history books and read the oldest book in the world the Bible. As you will discover Babalon was the first Empire, America is the last Empire, and I have said it and I will say it again, this Last Empire will die, so you can hold on to what you want but America will come to a point where under UN or what ever man made laws, will not be in a position to fund Israel or any one else for that matter. RON PAUL is about the only man I have heard so far that even touches on that reality, and he 100% right, the next best is Obama, you can not hide from reality. The most Obama can do is carry on the dream a bit longer and offer hope, but Baby in the long term the American Dream ended with G W Bush. 82% of all Americans says he is the worse President in History, so I am not the only one who thinks so read your History as I have encouraged every American to do, look at the facts America is spending money it doen not have, it has borrowed money from China to fight the Iraq war, who is going to lend America money to fight with IRAN, so Obamas position is absolutely correct, it is better to find a peaceful means to the problems facing the world because the answer will not be in a Bomb, if we intend to live and have a future for our selver and our children & grand children. In simple terms you have two choices Nuclear war, or Deplomacy to acheive peace. I am not some wizz kid I can only explain it as simple as I can. Thanks for your comment.

[Owen]

Why does everyone have to go on about identity politics all the time? We should all vote as individuals, surely?

[Daphne Kenward]

Ameica & Britain is in the grip of recession, America will end up far worse because of its commitments to various countries, which America cannot afford. This is time to wake up, as Rev Wright puts it, start to sort out your problems before you find you have left them to grow too big to control, when America sneeze the rest of the world catches a cold, ever hear that one, well it is true. Those who were getting Billions of pounds to try to kill neighbouring countries people, it may be cheaper to seek peace. Americans will be experiencing hardship, and when people really begin to feel it, the last thing they will be funding is countries in far flung place when they can't feed their own population, or house them. The many disasters around the world will grow, due to global warming, we will experience Famines due to Global warming & the shift to bio fuel, using land that would grow food to land that grows crops to produce bio fuel. So in the short term the next 20 years will be the hardest for three generations we are looking towards end of the 1st world war conditions in way of natural disasters. I would encourage people to solve their differences, and work togeather for a future where we live as brothers rather than enmies, we are going to need each other. It is too important to ignore. Many write in complaining about Obama, he is inexperienced he is a black guy well the way I see it if I was drowning and someone came to save my stupid ASS the last I would be worried about was his colour.

[George the Russian]

I wonder why are we find in the leftists comments much more elementary spelling, grammatical and factual mistakes than in the
conservative comments?

Is it possible that they forgot to learn their own language because they were too busy with building
that "wonderful socialism" where I escaped from?

[JOHN CHUCKMAN, TORONTO]

Good Lord, the "Jewish Question"?

Isn't this Hitler's own words?

No American, and certainly not Obama, would use this expression.

I don't know whether you've simply made a poor choice of words, Daniel, or whether you are deliberately putting Obama together with this dark phrase to discredit him.

[Ken-Hall]

Who cares what the Jews want? They only make up 2% of the population anyway.

How about this for a radical and patriotic change: What about a President that puts America first for a change?

I am sick of every Presidential candidate having to validate themselves against what Israel wants instead of what America needs!

[Akiva Shapero]

Although I am concerned about Obama past and present associations, I am more concerned that in this time of extravagant govt spending that he is the most liberal member of Congress, which usually means, spend, spend. Although Bush was just as bad.

[Christos M.]

There is a different concept of the world and the vision towards the Jews as this that you have in the US. Here in Europe (I am from Greece) we feel very confident by seen a US potential official, finally, to say that the barrier between Iran and the US may fall and negotiations for a better world may start. Jews usually categorize people in black and white and do not see the grey area. Here we have a lot of gray area. The Jews have a lot to gain if the US president will work for the peace and the best for them is to understand that Obama will be elected. It is not of their benefit to have the Europeans unhappy with them and have plenty of nations angry with the Israelis. This anger leads to unpleasant events.

[Mark]

the thing about the small percentage of Jews is completely missing the point... the Jewish vote may be small, but the amount of people they can influence through the media is huge... the media is critically important to a candidate's success...

and who controls the media? let's leave that an open question (hint: do a little reasearch)

[Paul]

Obama is backed by the Bilderberg Group. He is not going to jeopardise his potential presidency by suggesting that Zionism is a bad idea.

[George edward thompson]

Israel? zionism ,the jews worst enemy, read and be enlightened,liberal american jews stand up and tell your government thatyou no longer support the wholesale slaughter of palestinians in their own {occupied}country. Tell them to go back to the borders of the original settlement,and to stop settlement in palestine.

[alemild]

No president or candidate will do or say anything that is out of step with the Pro-israel lobby. Anyone in the US who transgresses this line finds out very rapidly that dissent is career terminating.....and that goes to the highest level. Obama will NEVER engage in any dialogue or policy that could not be lifted from AIPAC's charter.

[Cynthia]

There is one frequent poster on this board who is managing a one woman hate campaign against McCain and Clinton. I humbly suggest that this woman come to America and learn how we live before she rants any more.

Clinton has been an excellent Senator for New York State, McCain has served America well in the Senate and in the military over the years, and Obama has been in the Senate three years and has not voted over 30% of the time.

These are cold and hard facts.8

[Tom]

You need to differentiate whether Obama will be bad for American Jews or for irrational Israel supporters. Generally speaking, going against Israel's interests will be good for America (fewer terrorist attacks, lower oil prices, adherence to spirit of separation of church and state). Which country do you put first?

[prudence eely bond mcguire]

OBAMA AS PRESIDENT FRIGHTENS ME, NOT BECAUSE HE IS OF MIXED RACE, BUT, BECAUSE HE IS A LOOSE CANNON!IF, HE IS LIKE THIS NOW, IMAGINE WHAT HE WILL BE LIKE AS PRESIDENT!
BRITAIN IS EXPERIENCING FIRST HAND, THE DOOM AND GLOOM THAT COMES WITH THE TOP MAN BEING SOMEBODY OF LITTLE THOUGHT AND VISION!
WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT GORDON BROWN COULD BE IN REALITY SUCH A DISMAL FAILURE AS PRIME MINISTER?
THE MAN KNOWN PREVIOUSLY AS THE IRON CHANCELLOR IS REALLY A DITTERING FOOL!
THINK LONG AND HARD AMERICA- THE WORLD NEEDS OBAMA LIKE A 'HOLE IN THE HEAD'.

[zqll]

I don't know about Britain but America is not in the "grip" of a recession. Please look up the definition of "recession."

A recession is defined as: "A period of general economic decline; specifically, a decline in GDP for two or more consecutive quarters."

The last recession started under the Clinton Adminisration in the 3rd quarter of 2000 with a negative growth of .05. The recession ended in November 2001 under the Bush Administration.

[bob]

I find all the usual leftist and anti-Semitic tripe found here rather amusing. Deluded fools with a marginal grip on reality barely hanging on.

As for Obama, the only reason he has come this close is precisely because he is black. No white man with his meager qualifications never mind his ideology would have ever been considered a serious candidate. Think Dennis Kucinich. America is not going to elect a communist president this year or any other year no matter label they use to cover their true selves with from green to progressive to liberal. Same dreck, different wrapping. The only real question is if Obama is the Democratic nominee will the Republicans carry 40 states,45 states or 49 states in spite of themselves.

[A.T.Hupp]

The Jewish influence in the US is not votes but rather campaign donations from wealthy Jews.There has been a definite Jewish influence in US policy by persons high up in recent administrations.

[Paul Kazaria]

Obama President?? Is it the fall of the American Empire? Any paralellism with the Roman Fall? Maybe Mr. Bloomberg will come in the scene ad save us all! Jews run the game might as well hand it over to them!

[Zen]

When are you kids going to grow up and stop over simplifying politics by ascribing a single policy or agenda to a single ethnic group as if they were a single person? In every ethnic group there are good people and bad people. People are very different from one another. Even Homer Simpson knows this.

The Jews have suffered greatly at the hands of Christian and Muslim dominated societies for hundreds of years; leave them alone. The rest of you come across as a bunch of classroom bullies.

As far as the question of ‘Trans-Jordan’ as the British mandate was called; it was split into Israel and Jordan by UN mandate. Israel was not ‘stolen’ off anyone. If anything was stolen, please talk to the King of Jordan about why there is a Hashemite Dictatorship in Jordan and not an elected Palestinian State. Israel had to absorb millions of refugees in 1948. These people had been expelled from their own Muslim countries (because they were Jews). It was for Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and other Islamic States to absorb those refugees who left Israel. For every person leaving Israel at that time two or three people came from outside and had to be settled there. Let us not forget that the Jews were prevented from rebuilding their country (where it is today), by centuries of Islamic and Christian domination. Israel has existed there since before any Western State and all but one Islamic State, which was at that time pagan. This is actually the 3rd or 4th Israel depending on how you count. The hatred displayed by the Iranians against Israel and Jews today has historical roots; did you all know the Persians were invading Israel before Jesus was a twinkle in God’s eye?

To twist history on its head to the point that modern Israel is expected to absorb non-Jewish refugees is frankly Judeophobic in the style of the Nazis. They have one of the smallest countries in the world and everyone is pushing them to give more up.

I mean credit where credit is due; without the Jews; Islam, Christianity and a great deal of civilization would not exist. I would suggest the world is better with them in it than without them (just look at Nobel prize contributions by them). I would go further; the test of a non-Jews humanity is how he or she deals with ‘The Jewish Question’ and the question of all the other small minorities in the world.

The worry some Jews have about Obama is that he is ‘just another’ Judeophile, this is a legitimate concern as his Pastor certainly is.

So leave the Jews and Obama’s skin colour alone. Talk about something that matters.

[michael dowling]

Israel is here to stay. We all know that. Jewish communities have been a part of western life for hundreds of years and really know the meaning of integration. There is fear being whipped up by some politicians that all this could change by someone talking to those who are the sworn enemies of Israel. This is scaremongering at it's worst. Talking to someone doesn't mean appeasment or agreement. It means both parties know exactly where they stand and the consequences of actions by either part. We had 30 years of this "stand off at all costs" nonsence in Northern Ireland which got us nowhere. Eventually the sworn enemies saw the light. People stopped being deamonised and dehumanised in each others eyes. I hope the American people can see through this manipulation through fear for the sake of the rest of the world. It's time the American voter realised that when America breaks wind the rest of the world has to share the odour.

[joe]

Prudence Eely Bond McGuire, please get one of your grandchildren to show you how to turn Caps Lock off.

[Amanda]

Maybe succesive US presidents & US foreign policy has been concerned with Israel b/c the US is a more religiously christian country than the UK, & like good christians they all know that 'the holy land' is important & should be safeguarded. & pragmatically, they know if Arabs control Jerusalem there will be no christian holy places left with a year.

[ermin]

McCain is what, 100 years old? When interviewed, he talks like a kid snitching to teacher.

It is Obama, Obama, Obama. Get used to him.

Later it will be someone with a latin surname. And then where?

[prudence eely bond mcguire]

JOE BABY - PRAY TELL ME WHY?
OOPS, NO GRANDCHILDREN!!!!!!

[ben]

this jew agrees... gObama : )

[Joe]

Dear Prudence,
Now your exclamation mark is stuck. Perhaps you need a new keyboard.

[Andy]

I can tell you why, Prudence Eely Bond McGuire: this is the rule, and there is ample evidence scattered across newsgroups and comment forums all over the internet:

"The INTELLIGENCE of a post is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL to the ratio of CAPITAL LETTERS it contains"

I'm afraid that your posts are, at the very least, not doing a lot to prove this rule wrong.

[Knemon]

"Joe Lieberman was Gore's running mate in 2000, which was an obviously pull for the Jewish vote."

Not so. The choice of Lieberman had much more to do with the fact that he had harshly criticized Bill Clinton during l'affaire Lewinsky, helping Gore distance himself from that then- recent unpleasantness.

[JSG]

Israel is a racist state, not a free democracy. I'm tired of it receiving U.S. support. Good for Obama, for being willing to engage in diplomacy instead of sabre-rattling all the damn time. If JFK hadn't of talked to Khrushchev, then what would've happened? And Khrushchev wanted to blow up the USA, not Israel. You know, conservatives like to talk about how Ahmadinejad wants to "wipe Israel off the map." The problem is, he is actually talking about actual maps -- not destroying it in real life, just changing maps. I.e. redrawing political barriers and lines; doing away with "Israel as a Jewish state" (which is a racist concept) and creating a new nation that would encompass all the people who actually live in the region giving them all equal rights. For example a nation like the USA which would allow anyone as a citizen, whether or not you are Jewish. !!

[prudence eely bond mcguire]

WHEN I READ THESE INANE REPLIES I
REALISE WHY THE WORLD IS IN SUCH A DIRE STATE!
SUBJECTIVITY IS REALLY THE NAME OF THE GAME, GENTLEMEN!
GET A LIFE, EH?

[Julie]

It is bizarre for Jews would have a problem with Obama (although I believe this assertion is more Republican spin than truth). If McCain wins, we will be looking a WWIII and Israel will be attacked for sure. Obama is a peacemaker. You have nothing to lose with sitting down and talking to the enemy. Reagan and Kennedy did it with outstanding results. That is the problem with Bush/McCain. Their motto is bomb first, ask questions later.

[Toby]

Why, why, why oh why are we repeatedly told about the "battle" between this man and Bill Clinton's wife? Who cares? What about the other side? Who cares?

I am sick to death of the American election, and I know nothing about it. I care nothing about it.

Please, give us something interesting to read! How about some coverage of racist crimes commited against white people? Now that would really get people fired up! Ah, but yes, that's why you don't report them.

[Brian]

As when a writer of a financial paper must disclose whether or not he or she owns stock in any of the companies mentioned in their articles (to maintain objectivity), should that not be required of writers when writing about religious matters? Surely Mr. Finkelstein has a vested interest in this discussion other than mere food for though.

[Jay Jay]

Wht else is new? They sank Jesus anyway!

[Stephanie Ray]

Jon Stewart, who is Jewish, comes across as being very supportive of Obama.

[oningsio]

You said: "US policy in the Middle East reflects US interests and US values. Not Jewish influence".

Excuse me for disagreeing but if the US policy in the Middle East was indeed about US interest, we wouldn't be paying this much for a barrel of oil.

[vote4thebest]

Obama shows the same naivety as Jimmy Carter. Carter is much better as an ex-president, but almost every single political decision has been disastrous. Carter saw no problem to go and meet with Hamas; Obama shares his wife's view and can't be proud of our country that he thinks that he feels that he needs to appease and please everybody. That is thinking from a victim mindset, something his wife is an expert of.

[prudence eely bond mcguire]

So called appeasement has consequences for both sides involved in the process.
In JFK's case, it was the tragedy of his assassination.
There were rumours at the time that he also intended to 'sit down' with Fidel Castro.
Nikita Khrushchev suffered the indignity of 'early retirement' in his homeland and disapeared into the nether only to reappear in his coffin, when his death was 'officially' proclaimed.
Reagan's Russian opposite number, Mikhail Gorbachev was imprisoned by his own Party and later when he was released after western intervention, was deposed in favour of a more pliable leader, the erratic Boris Yeltsin, whose one redeeming feature seemed to be he wasn't a Communist as such.
Gorbachev also suffered loss in his private life by the death of his wife Raisa. Her early demise was thought to have been brought about by the harsh treatment suffered during their imprisonment.
Appeasement is an option to be mulled over very carefully by all sides.
It appears that a 'happy ending' isn't always the optional reward for services rendered.

[Andy]

Brian, of course! How shocking of Finkelstein to hide his jewishness from us all this time.
Just another example of the sneaky way that those cunning jews are controlling everything in the world from the weather to my chances of winning the lottery.

As for Prudence's rather miffed reply, I think you should go and look up "inane" in the dictionary; because what I wrote was a fairly reasonable observation that you would be quite hard to find any evidence to refute.

Trying to read anything written in capitals is like listening to someone who talks by shouting all the time; it's called etiquette - not a matter of following rules, but of consideration for others.

As for the gentle teasing you've attracted, you can either reply in kind (I rather liked the "JOE BABY" comment) or join in a proper old-fashioned, pointless flame war, but I persist in clinging to the quaint belief that this forum is for people who
a) have something useful to say and
b) have got some reasoning to back it up.

[Andy]

..and of course, top marks to Prudence for her intelligent, reasoned and, most importantly, predominantly lower-cased post, impeccably timed to make mine look very silly.

[UKMe]

Man why did Al Gor not run again... (Sigh)

[Zen]

JSG gets to the heart of the matter.
He wants National Self Determination for all but the Jews. It is he not Israel that is racist.

[Daphne Kenward]

Mr Eely Bond McGuire: You are a Racist you lack's the Education of a Parrot, and perhaps look like one as well, shut up you racist fool.

[Daphne Kenward]

Mr Prudence Eely Bond: No member of the British public VOTED for Mr Gordon Brown, that the first thing. The fact we are lumbered with this incompetent power freek is no falt of our own. The country is in the process of trying to get rid of him.
The next thing Britain is in a economical mess due to borrow and spend instead of borrow to invest, investments tends to yield returns on capital invested, if you started a fire and started to throw £20.00 notes in it, you are not going to get it back. The 11.9 Billions Brown spent of TAX payers money wasted in Iraq, when it would have been better spent on Transport that people could use and pay fares on which would yield a return over the long term, Browns lack of common sense, has nothing to do with OBAMA. And more over, the people of America have a choice of who they elect to get them out of the MESS BUSH has created for the American people. BLAIR lied and doctored intellegence so he can participate in the war in Iraq and had no money to pay for it. Investments have a way of creating Jobs, not a BLACK HOLE. Which is what Brown has done so he has tried to raise that money back by taxing the poor more, close Post Offices. The price of the war has backfired on the British public where they thought they would get cheap oil by putting a Puppet Government in office in Iraq the whole thing has been dogged because the whole of the Arab world knows it was a plott. Now as a result Oil Prices is set to rise to $200.00 & even $500.00 per barrel over 5 years theft has always been against the law. So don't you go throwing that bull at Obama, he was against the war from the start because it was unjust and evil. So take your complaints up with Gordon Brown. If you think he is short sighted well if you must know he is blind in one eye.

[prudence eely bond mcguire]

TO DK.
In reply to your strange rambling posting.
A) I am a female not a male- Prudence is femme.
B ) I would appreciate your definition of a racist?
If it behoves you to think I am one so be it!
You really are priceless and extremely subjective towards somebody you don't even know.
Strangely it is you, I guess, unwittingly, who has validated my original post.
To put forward a good argument one must first refrain from unwarranted personal attacks.
To rephrase my original remark, Obama needs your support like 'a hole in the head'.

[Daphne Kenward]

Ms Prudence or what ever you call your self, read your message, you stated rasing the issue that Mr Obama frightens you. For at start you need to leave planet earth. So what if he is mixed raced as you made a point to put it in CAPITAL LETTERS. It was a strong point you emphasised. So yoour point indicated you were white, and OBAMA frightens you, you think you're better & he lacks the ability. So have you been to Prinston & Harverd UNIVERSITY have you? have you met Mr Obama have you do? you know him then. If you don't shut the F... UP.
Because you have been so insulting and you have no point to make.
You are the one who needs a hole in the head darling. Wake up love the world is made up of all Nationality. And if you think it is a problem perhaps you should leave our planet. Mr Obama is a very warm kind considerate loving person, who is selfless, thinks about others before himself and he is just the kind of leader we all need we don't need you.

[Faye Lipson]

'The Jews' are not a homogenity. I am an individual who is Jewish, not part of one single identical mass of people. Even the phrase 'The Jews' expressed in the context of a single political view is nauseatingly racist. As anyone who actually knows any Jewish people will know, no two have the same views on anything. What we ARE known for is our propensity to argue and debate different views with each other on any contentious subject. As the old saying goes, if you put 2 Jews together to debate a topic, you will get 3 different opinions.

For the record, I am a Jew who understands the neccessity of dialogue with Iran. I am a Jew who desires more than anything good Israeli-Palestinian relations and justice for both parties equally. I am a Jew who is sickened by being characterised as someone with an agenda, part of a faceless 'lobby' or opposed to dialogue and real progress. Some posters on this board have disgraced themselves.

[Femkina]

There is only one real reason Jews would not vote for Obama. The only color they allow is White.

They are smart enough to look beyond religion, but the buck stops at Noir.

[Daphne Kenward]

Prudence: Good bye, you critized My Priminister, I did not defend him because his policies are questionable. You condemed a man on the basis of his race, so you must be instiutionally racist, mentally. When I think of politicans I don't go into if he is mixed race or not I go by policies, policies is what affects my life. When I vote I also vote on policies, the people who lead a country we do not often meet them. So their gender or their race is not an issue with me, I am not racially biased. You are welcomed to call fact a rant if you like, but the truth is the truth.

[prudence eely bond mcguire]

How can I be assumed a racist when the word NOT is used before the rest of the sentence!
I suggest you read a little bit more closely before you state your case and learn to spell correctly and then, maybe, this contributor will try and take you a bit more seriously.
Good luck!
ps. What has my heritage got to do with it?
Reverse racism is most certainly alive and well, when one can presume the not so obvious-ie-race of a writer who does not state it!

[Daphne Kenward]

For all the HILLARY supporters out there, I read her comments about how she is hanging in there some one may ASSINATE OBAMA, now if this is the kind of people AMERICANS vote for I am not surprised they voted in the most stupidest person on the entire plannet, for PRESIDENT G W BUSH. Her brag about how EXPERIENCED she was, and her International experience, well if that is the best America can come up with to represent their country, they deserve for their OIL PRICE to reach $1000 US per barrel, it is a dam shame it would affect the rest of the world. This is percisely the reason HILLARY attract Uneducated old women, because it is the level of her mentality, she disgust me.

[Daphne Kenward]

Stupied comments such as Louis Farakahn got an award from the church, no one wonders what he got the award for. If Louis Farakahn WON the LOTTERY the whole of AMERICA would be against the LOTTERY company, grow up, ask questions you may all learn something.

[funnyy]

Now you all make me laugh. I really do not understand as to why jews as a whole should be seen as the enemy whereas in fact they might agree or disagree with obama out of their own free will.But there is something i do not understand, why paul if there was no jews would Christianity and Islam not exist. This makes no sens seeing as they totally different people. They might all originate from Abraham but that is all they have in common in that concept. I do not agree with the putting down of the jews but this is democratic race not what religion is the best.

[Israel first]

American will continue to stand by Israel's side no matter what, it is a standing and unshakeable policy...Barack Obama is no different. If you don't want to vote for the man, his lack of support for Israel is not a legitimate issue to cite because he falls in line as well.

Obama-Hagee '08?

[john]

in this elexction is going to be a disaster becaus if you vot for Obama that lyes,creats more racal tenchin betwen black and wight. or McCain hwo is bush. so i say wich way do we go stay the same or go ferther back in time with obamas bs speeches or sliy talk to lower aus in i say lets go for the therd pick H.......R C......

[Likud is good]

As an American I will never vote for a President who did not put Israel first. It is our policy and we should stick to it no matter what.

[Inna]

Actually, I think there may be something here--but not for any of the reasons you cite. There is violence in Crown Heights (New York) again--and if it continues long enough, the repercussions may be felt in Florida and Mass. And, lets not forget, the California Supreme Court overturned the ban on same sex marriage. All of this may play a role in the General Election--because we vote by states and, in the end, all politics in the US is local.

[Mary]

Blimey, does one have to be mad - or illiterate - to comment here?

[Barrie]

I am a Jew and I love and trust Obama. He is a moral leader and dimplomat. He is also an amazing collaborator and will seek the advice of wise and educated people on matters concerning Israel.I believe that if Obama is our president the entire world will benefit from his leadership.

[Mike Odeh: Nigerian]

The Jews are very sharp people. They will support the right candidate and not be swayed by sentiments.

[Daphne Kenward]

Barrie: I agree with you because that is why I support Obama, I would like to hear more about peace and dialouge. War does not make any body safer. I saw the footage of the Iraq war I saw people being killed, wommen children old men old women. I felt sick, if that is what America calls great, I feel sorry for them. I would like to see peace between Israel & the Palestinian people. But what I am afraid of the wounds have been so deep can they find forgivness for each other? hatred spreads like weeds, but love kindness fellowship, it is hard to establish, trust. It's like South Africa people have to try, we have to have hope. I have wanted to visit Israel for years, but it is too violent, no one can be safe living in fear.Israel & Palestine would have so many visitors each year, if they could just find a way to obtain peace. And end all the stupid talks about Israel those people have a right to live in peace like the rest of the Arab world. They Just need to shair the whole place, they are brothers with all of their Arad neighbours, they are related.

[Daphne Kenward]

I don't lookforward to a NUCLEAR WAR, and if America could end up pushing those religious nutters over the edge, that is my fear. America has its own Religious fundementalist, all of them equally as evil as one another. The Pope before the 2nd world war thought it was OK to kill Jewish people Gypsies disabled people Black people. A Church that would support a crime such as that I would not be interested in. Molesting children which is what they do, it quite distasteful as well. Christianity what does it mean, the BIBLE said many will come on the basis of my name, because they use his name to make money, sell dolls trinckets, and got so rich that they can have their own BANK & had paid out Billions in sexual abuse cases. People coming on the basis of Religion is a dangerious thing, especially when mixed with politics.
The Muslims, want end times & the Christian Fundementalist want end times too and has a big inflewence in the American Politics, the people who is in danger is the Isralies, they are caught inbetween, a rock & a hard place. The Christians tried to kill them in Europe & the Arads want to Kill them in the Arab world. The Christians have no loyalty to any one, they will kill any one at all using race religion, nationality, for money oil anything at all, because their first love is SATAN the DEVIL, who inflewences them. They say they are christians none goes to church except the few, the ones who do are happy to listen to sermons avocating crimes against humanity, based on colour race religion nationality, killing innocent people, many said they were christians when they were hanging Black people for no other crimes other than the colour of their skin. America is not a country I would put any trust in, Obama came along and if he can sort out American foreign policies, from being based on racism. To something more based on issues rather than race & religion.

[OBAMA CAN HELP BRING PEACE]

Because he is a man of color and nations of color might respond better to a man of color than a white man is that what you are scared of? Jews rather support McCain who sought out an endorsement of a preacher who thinks Hitler was sent by God to drive them back to Israel by killing them.

[Daphne Kenward]

Cassandra's comments on 20th May: Refernce to Rev Wright's comments as being RACIST, is the Jewish community RACIST for speaking about the HOLOCAUST, the sound bites, without the whole vedio, was designed by FOX NEWS to give that impression. Creating sensationalism, and stir hatred among white Americans, to shape the way people vote, and get people speaking about RACE instead of the real issues facing America and the wider world. FOX NEWS, is a GUTTER CHANNEL. I don't know why people watch it. Try C-Span it is more well balanced and factual.