A message for our American readers

History, perhaps, does not furnish a greater instance of this downfall of ambition, and the vanity of human project than Britain experienced in the revolt of America

Or so reported The Times in 1785. Two centuries later, we're getting over the pain but, in honour of the glorious fourth, we invite you to take a trip down memory lane.

Our fantastic Archive brings you all the news on the King who lost America, the original report on the Constitution and the benefits that Britain hoped they might receive from their former colony.

Take a look. And a very happy Fourth of July!

Comments

[Frank Hawkins]

We Americans greatly appreciate the long term friendship of our British cousins. But we are concerned about the creeping inroads by the Muslims who threaten to adversely change the innate character of your wonderful country. We hope you will keep Britain British. And for those who can't accept that, send them home. God bless!

[John Byron]

As an American who is the grandson of a Brit (war bride) and who lived in the UK for four years (PhD, University of Durham, 2002), I can honeslty say I love the UK as much as I do the USA. In spite of our past differences, we still have a strong bond between our countries. Many thanks for the holiday wishes!

[Danny Eller]

You can help make America happy by using the correct name for today. It is officially "Independence Day".

Just like Christmas (another national day of observance) using unambiguous monikers takes away from the reason we are celebrating the day.

Why is it that during December Christmas is referred to as the Holidays but we have "Christmas in July" sales... emmmm???

So may you have a safe and happy "Independence Day". And come this December 25th I wish all a Very Merry "Christmas".

[kh]

I object to Frank Hawkins speaking for all Americans, and in fact I find his comment offensive. Not all of us have a fear or hatred of Muslims.
On this day it seems appropriate for Americans to consider what makes our country great. Many citizens are willing to allow constitutional rights to be taken away by those who claim to be protecting the American way of life. In fact, those very rights are the essence of what makes America great. We should, when necessary, go to war to preserve them. We must not reject them when they become inconvenient.

[JOHN CHUCKMAN, TORONTO]

The incomparable Doctor Johnson had it right when he called patriotism the last refuge of scoundrels and scoffed at what he called the "drivers of negroes" yelping about liberty.

Few Americans even understand that Johnson's first reference was to their sacred Founding Fathers (aka Patriots). I have seen a well known American columnist who attributed the pronouncement to Ben Franklin, a man who was otherwise admirable but nevertheless dabbled a few times in slave trading himself.

Johnson especially had in mind history’s supreme hypocrite, Jefferson, with his second reference. Again, few Americans know that Jefferson kept his better than two hundred slaves to his dying day. I know a well educated American who sincerely believed Jefferson had freed his slaves. Such is the power of the myths of the American Civic Religion.

Jefferson was incapable of supporting himself, living the life of a prince and being a ridiculous spendthrift who died bankrupt and still owing money to others, the man of honor being a trifle less than honorable in paying back the money he often borrowed. When a new silk frock or set of shoes with silver buckles was to be had, Jefferson never hesitated to buy them rather than pay his debts.

The date we now celebrate, July 4, is based on the Continental Congress's approval of the Declaration of Independence, but in fact the date is incorrect, the document was approved on July 2.

Jefferson wrote the first draft of the declaration, but it was edited by the redoubtable Benjamin Franklin, and later was heavily amended by the Continental Congress. Jefferson suffered great humiliation of his pride and anger at the editing and changes.

Despite the document's stirring opening words, if you actually read the whole thing, you will be highly disappointed.

The bulk of it has a whining tone in piling on complaint after complaint against the Crown, going on and on about things like Britain's slave trade.

The 'slave trade' business was particularly hypocritical, trying to sound elevated while in fact reflecting something else altogether. At the time there was a surplus of human flesh in Virginia, and prices were soft.

The cause of the Revolution is also interesting and never emphasized in American texts. Britain's imposition of the Quebec Act created a firestorm of anti-Catholicism in the colonies. They were afraid of being ruled from a Catholic colony.

The speech and writing of American colonists of the time was filled with exactly the kind of ugly language one associates with extremist Ulstermen in recent years.

This combined with the sense of safety engendered from Britain's victory in the French and Indian War (the Seven Years War)and the unwillingness to pay taxes to help pay for that victory caused the colonial revolt.

Few Americans know it, but it was the practice for many, many decades to burn the Pope in effigy on Guy Fawlkes Day along the Eastern Seaboard. Anti-Catholicism was quite virulent for a very long time.

The first phase of the revolt in and around Boston was actually something of a popular revolution, responding to Britain's blockading the harbor and quartering troops in Boston.

The colonial aristocrats were having none of that, and they appointed Washington commander over the heads of the Boston Militias who volunteered and actually elected their officers.

Washington, who had always wanted to be a British regular commander but never received the commission, imposed his will ferociously. He started flogging and hanging.
In his letters home, the men who actually started the revolution are described as filth and scum. He was a very arrogant aristocrat.

The American Revolution has been described by a European as home-grown aristocrats replacing foreign-born ones. It is an apt description.

Washington, Hamilton, Adams, and many other of the Fathers had no faith in democracy. About one percent of early Virginia could vote. The president was not elected by people but by elites in the Electoral College. The Senate, which even today is the power in the legislature, was appointed well into the 20th century.

The Supreme Court originally never dared interpret the Bill of Rights as determining what states should do. It sat on paper like an advertising brochure with no force. At one time, Jeffferson seriously raised the specter of secession, half a century before the Civil War, over even the possibility of the Bill of Rights being interpreted by a national court and enforced.

The Founding Fathers saw popular voting as endangering property ownership. Democracy was viewed by most the same way Washington viewed the “scum” who started the Revolution around Boston. It took about two hundred years of gradual changes for America to become anything that seriously could be called democratic. Even now, what sensible person would call it anything but a rough work still in progress.

It is interesting to reflect on the fact that early America was ruled by a portion of the population no larger than what is represented today by the Chinese Communist Party as a portion of that country’s population.

Yet today we see little sign of patience or understanding in American arrogance about how quickly other states should become democratic. And we see in Abu Ghraib, in Guantanamo, and in the CIA’s International Torture Gulag that the principles and attitudes of the Bill of Rights still haven’t completely been embraced by America.

[William]

Pres. Washingtons last speach as President stated we should stay away from Europe and their petty ways. Sage advice after reading how our dear friends write about us on these pages. On our day of independence, which launched a wave of Peoples Revolutions in Europe, this is all you can say about us as a People? Times are changeing and many in the USA are sick of Europe and their talk, but no action. We want to come home, keep our money, drill for our own oil and tell the UN to buzz off. Only Obama and McCain wont let this happen. In our short years we have done more for human rights in our own country and the world then Europe did with 1000 years of savage wars and slave trading. So dont preach to us about how bad we are and how peaceful you are.

[T. J. Cassidy, Arlington, VA]

John Chuckman,

>> The president was not elected by people but by elites in the Electoral College. <<

So it's been with every president since and will continue to be in the foreseeable future. Enough people, few of whom are members of an elite, like it that way to keep it in place.

[American Patriot]

Chuckman -
You are absolutely correct that the founding fathers were distrustful of a pure democracy or mob rule. That's why it is pure hogwash to suggest that the US is a democracy. It has many democratic values, but be clear it is a republic with democratic underpinnings. Read the Federalist papers and worry about Toronto and your Human Rights Commissions. Exactly how do they fit in to your so purist principles?

[Shirley ( a completely different one!)]

Frank Hawkins - you're no cousin of mine. One of the greatest things about Britain is it's ability to accept diversity and it's disdain for narrow minded bigots.
And of course that we are secure enough in our feelings for our country that we can express them wihout going " Whooo, ye-ahhh! Go Britain, man! Whoo! Whooooo! UK, UK, UK! Ye-ahh, man! whilst stood in front of the flag pole on our lawns and clutching our hands to our hearts". But that's probably another post (just kidding - you sound like you have a wonderful sense of humour!)

[Holly]

There would be no America without the British, so I'm thankful things turned out the way they did. I'm also thankful we can now be friends with Britain. I hope we can stay friends forever.

[MCD]

Leave it to the troll John Chuckman, who goes on with his anti-American sentiment in UK, US, and Canadian papers incessantly, to pop up here on the 4th with his usual blabbering.

He's an embittered, born in the US, left 'as a young man during the 60s Viet Nam era to Canada (hint, hint), person.

[Jim]

>>The bulk of it has a whining tone in piling on complaint after complaint against the Crown, going on and on about things like Britain's slave trade.<<

KH, I think you need to go to ushistory.org and re-read the Declaration. There is not a single word of slavery in it, much less reference to Britain's slave trade.
As to complaints against the Crown, the document specifically calls him out as a Tyrant, and much of the document is listing his abuses to back that up.

[MCD]

Shirley,

Unfortunately for you, the Brits' leaving in record numbers don't agree.

PS, maybe it's a LACK of disdain for those narrow-minded bigots that's driving them out.

[John Hennelly, Atlanta, GA]

Thank you, Mr. Finkelstein and The Times, for your kind sentiments. Although I am an American of part-Irish descent, the people of your country will always be held in close regard by me and a multitude of other Americans like me. It would appear that the experience and legacy of our soldiers, sailors, and Marines fighting side-by-side during WWII erased any lingering anti-British or anti-Yank feelings for the vast majority of us on both sides of the Atlantic. While there will always be disagreements between our countries (just as there will be within our own countries), I can not imagine a time when, on an issue of supreme importance, we will be opposed to each other. As we celebrate the anniversary of our Declaration of Independence over here, we wish you the very best of futures over there as well.

[Faisal]

Dear Frank Hawkins

As I type, I'm putting on my bowler hat to nip out for a pint of warm beer whilst watching cricket on the village green while the church bells call for evensong. Or I might just go and have a nice curry, go to a salsa class, a celidh, have some mezze, go to the Japanese film festival at my local cinema. There are all sorts of events around to enjoy that reflect the vibrancy and dynamism of this country and the "inroads" made by other cultures. So on this 4th of July, please accept a very British "up yours" on behalf of all "The Muslims" like myself who love this country and call it home.

[Esther]

Hey Danny Eller - what comes after 3rd July and before 5th July? Lighten Up!

[JOHN CHUCKMAN, TORONTO]

MCD,

Yours is pathetic name-calling instead of comment.

I love your use of "anti-American" as though that were a charge in a court of law, either civil or ecclesiastical.

Your "hint, hint" is like the whispers of silly child. Having written a book, many published essays, as well as having served as the chief economist for a major corporation, my background is no secret. I'm proud of having stood for my beliefs at some personal cost.

By the way, you likely are not aware of the fact but one of the biggest reasons for many of America's finest immigrants over 200 years was precisely the avoidance of being conscripted for stupid wars.

Of course, it is quite likely you do not know enough to comment on the points I've made here.

One does have to have read some academic history to add anything meaningful on these points.

What I've offered readers are some interesting points about the history and meaning of a day that is generally full of nothing but noise and baton-twirling and flatulent speeches.

In general, people who do not use their names when posting comments are either unsure of what they have to say or fully understand that it is rubbish.

Which is the case for you?

[JOHN CHUCKMAN, TORONTO]

Jim,

Jefferson wrote a long section about the slave trade with which he was very much concerned. It was cut in the editing.

[Jim]

We aren't discussing a DRAFT of a document. you are too bent on making some point, that you readily mislead. and you call others hypocrites? LOL
Run along now.
p.s. I too enjoy our british cousins. I don't know what's in the water there in Toronto, but I plan to avoid it, if your posts are an example.

[Kyle]

I just want to say God bless America and that America stands for what we all want which is freedom, liberty, and sovereignty. My prayer for America is simple "In all things may American be guided by the light and the truth" amen.

[JOHN CHUCKMAN, TORONTO]

A few further reflections of interest on July 4.

The historical facts indicate that Britain on the whole actually had offered good government to its North American Colonies.

Everyone who visited the Colonies from Europe noted the exceptional health of residents.

They also noticed what seemed an extraordinary degree of freedom enjoyed by colonists. It was said to be amongst the most free place in the known world, likely owing in good part to its distance from the Mother Country. A favorite way to wealth was smuggling, especially with the Caribbean. John Hancock made his fortune that way.

Ben Franklin once wrote a little memo, having noted the health of Americans and their birth rates, predicting the future overtaking of Britain by America, an idea not at all common at the time.

Indeed, it was only the relative health and freedom which made the idea of separation at all realistic. Britain was, of course, at the time viewed much the way, with the same awe of power, people view America today. These well-known facts of essentially good government in the Colonies made the Declaration of Independence list of grievances sound exaggerated and melodramatic to outsiders even at the time.

The combination of the Quebec Act, anti-Catholicism, dislike of taxes, plus the desire to move West and plunder more Indian lands were the absolute causes of the Revolution.

Britain tried to recognize the rights of the aboriginals and had forbidden any movement west by the Colonies.

But people in the colonies were land-mad, all hoping to make a fortune staking out claims they would sell to later settlers. The map of Massachusetts, for example, showed the colony stretching like a band across the continent to the Pacific. Britain did not agree.

George Washington made a lot of money doing this very thing, more than any other enterprise of his except for marrying Martha Custis, the richest widow in the colonies.

The tax issue is interesting.

The French and Indian War (the Seven Years War) heavily benefited the Colonists by removing the threat of France in the West. Once the war was over, many colonists took the attitude that Britain could not take the benefits back, and they refused to pay the taxes largely imposed to pay the war's considerable cost.

And Americans have hated taxes since.

By the way, in the end, without the huge assistance of France, the Colonies would not have won the war. France played an important role in the two decisive victories, Saratoga and Yorktown. At Saratoga they had smuggled in the weapons the Americans used. At Yorktown, the final battle, the French were completely responsible for the victory and for even committing to the battle. Washington had wanted instead to attack New York – which would have been a disaster – but the French generals then assisting recognized a unique opportunity at Yorktown.

After the war, the United States never paid the huge French loans back. Some gratitude. Also the United States renounced the legitimate debts many citizens owed to British factors (merchant/shippers) for no good reason at all except not wanting to pay.

[Bob O'Keefe, Colorado Springs, CO]

Mr. Chuckman--Whew!!! How long did you rehearse and edit your vitriolic opinion?
As a long-time Anglophile I appreciate the Times' kind words and courtesy. As a retired Army Officer, I had several, most enjoyable opportunities to work with British Army units, both here and overseas. It was always a most beneficial experience.
Regarding Mr. Chuckman's narrative--his column contains so many inaccuracies and false statements that it would take days to explain and refute his statements. Furthermore, I doubt my attempts would succeed in educating him or causing him to change his opinions, to which he is fully entitled. After all, the Constitution guarantees Freedom of Speech and the Press.
But, one must remember that Democracy is essentially a competition among candidates and proponents of specific policies. Competition can, at times, grow messy, unsportsmanlike, and even corrupt. Therefore, Democracy may attract unsavory characters and is usually tumultuous, loud, inconsiderate and rude. (Have you ever watched "Questions"?) But Sir Winston Churchill remarked that "Democracy may not be the most desirable form of government, until one considers the alternative." He also said that "You can always trust the Americans to do the right thing, after they have tried everything else!" Consider the War Between the States--it cost the lives of over 300,000 men to end slavery. Men who fought for no prospect other than victory, "for without victory, there is no survival!" They fought not for money, power, land, women or even glory. They fought only to settle the question of the "peculiar institution" which had permeated American politics and society. Again, Churchill wrote in his masterpiece "History of the English Speaking Peoples," that "the American Civil War was the noblest and least avoidable of the world's great conflicts..." Don't you, Mr. Chuckman, believe that only a vibrant, true democracy could produce such fighting men who would risk the "last full measure of devotion" to decide the question of human bondage?
Lastly, I have heard it said that America is constantly re-inventing itself. Some may think such action is pointless, even cursed. Most Americans, I believe, consider re-invention a unique, American quality that has allowed us to conquer a hostile, difficult frontier in record time. A conquest, I might add, that benefited the world in both 1917 and in 1941. To think it all started at Concord bridge in 1773 when "the embattled farmers stood, and fired the shot heard 'round the world." Enjoy Independence Day Mr. Chuckman, and its consequent liberties.

[Danny Eller]

Hey Danny Eller - what comes after 3rd July and before 5th July? Lighten Up! Posted by: Esther | 4 Jul 2008 17:43:48
--------------
Esther, In the United States of America the answer is "Independence Day"

[Danny Eller]

I've seen some of John Chuckman's posts in various forums and if his writings are a true reflection of how he feels about the U.S. then there is no doubt...

John is a want-a-be Communist that is angry at America because he knows that as long as America is what it is, he will never get his way.

I failed to mention in my previous posts that I have been to GB and enjoyed it very much. As a veteran I greatly appreciate the fact that going on more than 100 years GB has been a good friend and great ally of America. For that I say "Thank you"

Along with Frank Hawkins I truly hope that Great Britain will always remain British.

[Chuck Johnson]

Well, thank you Mr. Finkelstein for your warm wishes.

On behalf of all Americans, I apologize for John Chuckman, a cowardly draft-dodger, now sponging of the good wishes and tax dollars of the Canadian public (not to mention the well-worn nerves of discerning readers worldwide).

That Chuckman's come to troll your particular blog after having been driven from every other is no reflection upon you.

[Andy]

I don't know why all the rest of you are bothering to post, John Chuckman is always right about everything and obviously much, much cleverer than the rest of us. Let's just leave it to him shall we?

[JOHN CHUCKMAN, TORONTO]

Bob O'Keefe, that you call it vitriolic only demonstrates how little you know.

They are facts, every statement, and they are not expressed in highly emotional words.

I offer them as myth-busters.

I have no respect for pretension and superstition, and on the subject of American Independence those, sadly, are almost the only things one ever hears.

It's almost as pathetically wrong-headed as the silly claim American was founded by Christians, heard so often in America from people who know almost nothing of their own history.

Jefferson was an atheist. Washington was a Deist, as was Hamilton. Franklin too, despite having a nominal association with the Quakers. Gouveneur Morris, Washington's rakish associate also.
And Madison.

French thinking from the Enlightenment was the overwhlmingly stylish fashion amongst America's founders.

Patrick Henry was a Christian, and Jefferson once described him 'an emotional volcano with no guiding intellect.'

[JOHN CHUCKMAN, TORONTO]

Chuck Johnson, those are impressive factual arguments you offer.

Undoubtedly, the quality of your argument reflects the quality of your thinking.

[Esther]

Danny,
Err, no........the answer is still July 4th - which in America is celebrated as Independence Day. Pedantic, I know but I hope you get my point. Which conflict are you a veteran of?

[Shirley]

MCD
Brits might be leaving in record numbers but it is still a neglibible number; far more people want to live here than want to leave. Those who do leave probably want to enjoy some sunshine (the weather in the UK, as most folks know, is fickle at best)cash in their property wealth and make their pensions stretch a bit further. Or maybe they just fancy a change. There will always be those who prefer cheap, dull and cheerful to costly, interesting and dynamic.

[Faisal]

Shirley - too true. How else do you explain the popularity of the Costa del Sol, Florida and Paris Hilton.