Barack Obama: Dreamer or traitor?

Both The Independent's John Rentoul and my colleague Oliver Kamm are rolling out the red carpet for Barack Obama, as the Democrat begins the trip that will bring him to London.

Why? Because both want him to succeed so that he can then fail. Here's the nub of Rentoul's Sunday column:

There was a moment last month – it was when Susan Sarandon, the actress, said she might emigrate to Italy or Canada if McCain won – when it seemed essential to the sanity of America that Obama should lose.

But, no, it is more important that the daydream should be broken. The idea that there is some kind of clean, different, painless, perfect alternative to politics as usual is a distraction from taking difficult, compromised decisions in an imperfect world. If Obama lost, too many people around the world could continue to believe that if only America got out of whatever it is in, everything would be better.

And Oliver says that this is exactly what he has been thinking.

I haven't.

If Obama wins and fails to satisy his unrealistic supporters, Obama may be broken. The daydream will not be broken.

Just as the failure of Ramsay MacDonald's government in 1931 was blamed on everything - treachery by Ramsey Mac, a banker's ramp, the King - except the intrinsic ridiculousness of Democratic Socialism; so disillusion with Obama will lead everything to be blamed - Obama's treachery or incompetence, his advisers, the military-industrial complex - except the naivety of the daydream.

The daydream is very powerful, even if there was no such thing as cognitive dissonance.

What were those words Shrummy wrote for Ted Kennedy?

For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die.

Shrummy was right. It won't.

Comments

[tim]

I see George Galloway is supporting the killing and kidnap of all foreigners ( except bona fide journalists) in Iraq.
On the day Obama flies in.

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/07/21/george-galloway-disgusting/#comment-208876

[Kate]

The USA is in a state of failure. If it doesn't change it doesn't deserve to survive. Obama himself is personally, but his election would point to a far more significant fact: the desire of the American people for change. Right-wing fanatics may call it a daydream, but only because they are terrified of it. It is called freedom and it will sweep them away.

[John W Meadows]

Let us not forget that a few years ago when when half the people who will vote this November were under eighteen or not yet born the Democrats foisted on us a clueless clown named Jimmy Carter.
I very much fear that Obama could well be as disastrous,when Jimmy entered the White house Iran was a good friend of the West.
History has now shown that the feeble response of the Carter administration to world events was a disastrous policy,we even had to wait for Reagan to be elected before the Embassy hostages in Tehran came home.
If we put the voting age back up to twenty one I think we could forget about "popstar" Obama.

[Geronimo]

"Kate", who commented on "Right-wing fanatics being swept away" is correct about one thing...the "sweeping away". However, it will be the Leftist Termites and Degenerates who wish to completely dismantle Western culture and civilization and replace it with a global Socialist mono-culture who will be "swept away".
These Obamaniks in America, and their ilk in the UK and Europe have been allowed to run roughshod over and the countries they infest. The results are all around to see. Their "day dream" is one of endless "equalizing" horror. They've ruined every aspect of society they've wormed their way into, and the whip-lash response to their mouth-frothing insanity is no doubt on its way.

[Mary]

The problem lies with unrealistic expectations from Obama by both Americans and Europeans. I am an Independent and have not been terribly impressed with either candidate thus far.

The problem is that he will most certainly let those people down because he cannot possibly turn the world around in a few simple years. What Obamamanics want is impossible to achieve! He can help improve US relations in certain countries, but it will not happen in mainland Europe. Most European countries, France and Germany, being the main two will only "like" Americans again when the are in need of our assistance. Right now France and Germany are very cosy with Russia, and to some extent even China, despite both Russia and China human rights record. I always thought the French were ardent supporters of human rights, guess I was wrong about that. Nothing much Obama can do for France and Germany, unless he strikes oil and they begin to need the US again. Though I do so hope to be proven wrong as France used to be an important US ally, not any longer.

Just one Americans point of view on expectations of Obama and why he will probably in the end fail to impress the elite Eurocrats.

[Adrian near Seattle]

Kate (above) replied to this content-free column perfectly:

"The USA is in a state of failure. If it doesn't change it doesn't deserve to survive. Obama himself is personally, but his election would point to a far more significant fact: the desire of the American people for change. Right-wing fanatics may call it a daydream, but only because they are terrified of it. It is called freedom and it will sweep them away." --Posted by: Kate | 21 Jul 2008 14:42:03

And Kate got the reply perfectly representative of the kind of insular, Bible-thumping, fear-driven, small mind of much of Middle America -- *very* ironically named "Geronimo"(!):

" "Kate", who commented on "Right-wing fanatics being swept away" is correct about one thing...the "sweeping away". However, it will be the Leftist Termites and Degenerates who wish to completely dismantle Western culture and civilization and replace it with a global Socialist mono-culture who will be "swept away". These Obamaniks in America, and their ilk in the UK and Europe have been allowed to run roughshod over and the countries they infest. The results are all around to see. Their "day dream" is one of endless "equalizing" horror. They've ruined every aspect of society they've wormed their way into, and the whip-lash response to their mouth-frothing insanity is no doubt on its way." -Posted by: Geronimo | 21 Jul 2008 16:38:22

The page on the right-wing world of Cheney, Rummy, and Rove will turn, despite the huge resources and the brainwashing prowess of corporate media lobbying and fundamentalist televangelists exerts over much of the American middle.

I am absolutely sure that I, along with my all my extended family and all whom I associate with, will weep with joy in November when that happens. Bush's nightmare has been *that* disastrous for my country.

[sandy]

this comment is for kate...what do you call the last 8 years with a cognitively deficient GW? Lies and wars and shredding of the constitution and an administration that makes it laws up and rules as it goes? bush makes carter days look like paradise. oh and lets not forget the price jumps on food and gas and everything else under the sun...please

[Simon Stephenson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting two things:-

1. That there is a widespread system of simplistic and irrationally over-optimistic belief that is too powerful to be broken even by the practical failure, in power, of its standard-bearers.

and

2. That this state of affairs is not just a recent phenomena - it's something towards which human societies naturally graduate.

Am I correct in also taking you for the view that such mass daydreaming must be taken as a given, and that the supreme task of political leadership is to implement precise and rational policy in such a way as to avoid alerting the masses to its inconsistency with their daydream?

Could I suggest that there is an alternative which is to reject the inevitability of mass-simplisticism; to recognise that it is possible to teach a far greater proportion of the population to appreciate the real complexity of social decision-making; and therefore to make participatory democracy a goal that is realistically worth pursuing, rather than merely paying lip-service to?

[Dave M]

For heaven's sake,
if you europeans are so in love with Obama,
you have him. Make him president of europe,
if you can get those plucky Irish to ratify the Lisbon treaty.
What part of DOH don't you get?
This guy is no messiah, he's no agent of
change, he's a Chicago Politician.
Remember Mayor Richard J Daley and how he
ruled that city with an iron hand for decades? Obama does. He learned Chicago.
He will do whatever he has to do to get
elected, and anyone and everyone is a
candidate to be thrown under the bus.
What man who wants to be President of the
USA can wrongly state that we have 57 states and he can be President for TEN years and get away with it on TV?
Magic Man? Media Darling?
He's just a disaster waiting to unfold.

[Jonny]

I think he will be a disaster. His past close ties for the last 20 years speak louder than his words. Even if he seperates from these people in order to get elected, they are still here and will be demanding to be heard. He is going to be in a very difficult situation of pleasing his community and pleasing the American public. I don't understand why the media is so swept away with him. He is a good speaker and everyone loves change but why him? Seriously, why him?
As far as everyone talking about the Bush nightmare, I blame the housing crisis on greedy lenders and the war on those who started it. Let's not forget, it is our military intelliegence and that of at least two other countries that informed our white house of the nuclear threat. What else were we to do? We had just been bombed with planes. We also had to wait for two months before being allowed to enter the country to try and find the nuclear facilities. A lot can happen in two months. Anyone read "Sadam's Secrets"?

[Lawrence]

What kind of headline is that dreamer or traitor ? There have only been a few traitors in the history of the US. Are you saying that the US taking its responsiblity for paying its own bills, and managing its own affairs - and not going on wild military excursions and spending spress amounts to treason?

Rather I should think your attempt at word meaning reversal attempts to obfuscate the dream and fantasy that the current admin and previous republican admins have hoisted upon the public, appealing to fear and greed, the lowest of the emotions.
It is the current admin, if any group, who has betrayed the american dream, and turned it into a nightmare of sorts.

Obamah attempts to reach a bit higher than the cowardly "be afraid, be very afraid" approach that the republicans have mastered. It's a brave tactic, and I wish him well.

[Mary]

Dave M, very well put. Obama has no record, in 3 years in the Senate, he voted "Present" 130 times, sidestepping issues that were in the least bit controversial. By refusing to ever take a stand on anything, he can now claim to be all things to all people. He stands for change for the sake of change, not change for the better. He's a politician through and through, and he will say anything to get elected.

[Josh]

"Could I suggest that there is an alternative which is to reject the inevitability of mass-simplisticism; to recognise that it is possible to teach a far greater proportion of the population to appreciate the real complexity of social decision-making; and therefore to make participatory democracy a goal that is realistically worth pursuing, rather than merely paying lip-service to? "

Suggesting it - even desiring it, as we surely all do - is not the same as making it true. The self-analysis necessary to understand their true motivations escapes most people; they are unable to make reasoned, rational choices.

[Vaquero]

Please let the Liberal Fascist aka EuroPEONS keep the Messiah over there. We donot want BHO, whose obviously an epic fraud and arrogant liar anywhere near the White House! IMO he will lose in the GE by a substantial margin....DRILL DRILL DRILL
...NOBAMA!

[em]

Obama is as the Texans say "All hat and no cattle".

[Jack is Back!]

As long as the legacy media in (it seems) all countries fawn over Obama as if he was the second coming of (Christ, Buddha, Mohammed - take your pick) then his failure will be just as predictable as Greg Norman's was at Birkdale. You put him on that great pedestal and he will fail simply because he has reached his zenith and everything from that point on is under-achievable. Most importantly, no one to this date has shown me his qualifications to hold this position of ultimate power and influence. What has he accomplished that makes him a leader (not a messiah but a leader)? If anything, he is a leader in the way Jim Jones was a leader in Guyana. God forbid he never runs out of kool-aid.

[twolaneflash]

Lot people invested in hating Bush here, like 9/11 would not have happened with a President Gore, or the stock market would not have dropped like a rock in 2001, or Nagin/Blanco would have reacted brilliantly to Katrina....

As for Obama, to some he is sublime and they are blind. To others (like me) he is beyond ridiculous, beyond absurd. I have some words for Obama, words like liar, crook, fraud, Marxist, elitist, racist, antipatriot, islamist supporter, Chicago Democrat-machine candidate, hate-mongerer, arrogant narcissist. Shall I continue?

[Buford Crumley]

Bush is a master statesman compared to Jimmy Carter. Carter almost destroyed the US. Obama is just another Carter.

[madman]

How's that the same people who support Obama so overwhelmingly haven't produced a single candidate or politician like him in Europe? It tells a lot about these people doesn't it?

[Fred]

We have an unusually robust political system in the United States. The collection of fools, knaves, the naive, the disengenuous, and the corrupt that would bring down a European government are routinely ground up and spit out.

[Andy in Chicago]

"Kate" and "Adrian in Seattle": It's all okay children, just go back to your wailing, protesting, and gnashing of teeth, and let the adults in the world do the heavy lifting of preserving Western culture and democracy, along with having productive employment and contributing something positive to society. You strive to paint anyone who dares to criticize Obama with the same brush, (oh horrors!, how can you be against our new saviour??!!). Please just take your toys and go to the corner of the room.

[Jim]

I always like the breathless "Bush shreds the Constitution!" claim. If you are a US citizen, please name one right that you don't have today, that you had in 1999.

Didn't think so.

Except, of course, the right to get to your airport gate without hassle. But you can blame radical Islam, not George Bush and his evil neocon cronies, for that.

[haralambos]

The single winner of these elections will be Hollywood.

There was a time when only Americans couldn't/didn't want to distinguish between reality and celluloid. The brainwashing of Europe which began after WWII is now almost complete. The rest of the world will/must follow.

The means of production has gone East. War? China has a standing army of 20 million. USA forces are stretched to capacity with 2% of that.

Technology? The East has it in buckets and what they don't have they soon will. Remember Japan?

The American brand is fraying - only movies can save it. The sooner Americans realise what their role has become the better for all of us. Make good movies America and leave the hard work and the wars to people who are grateful to work twelve hour shifts for ten dollars and can die in wars by the millions.

What does anyone know about Americans? What do Americans know about Americans? What they have seen in the movies.

Hollywood rules O.K.?

er the Americans realise that that's what they are - the world's entertainers-the better. If thew world complains to America that they have no bread she can say - Let then eat movies.

[Wildmonk]

Simon's comment was very thoughtful and well written but, ultimately, meaningless.

How do you "teach a far greater proportion of the population to appreciate the real complexity of social decision-making"? As implemented by existing political classes you'd end up with either Soviet-style "re-education camps" or the world's largest Bible study. Is that really what you want?

Also, does anyone really believe that the resulting newly educated population, filled with the spirit of "participatory democracy," will somehow rewrite the rules of political power?

In the end, Simon and the other lefties here, aren't you really just calling for a police state with a smiley face? What happens when people don't get the lessons of "participatory democracy" in exactly the way that you meant? What happens when they decide that their goals differ from yours?

Perhaps if you want a "participatory democracy" you'll support a deep revision of government so that power is pushed as deeply down into the people as possible. That is, rather than intense concentrations of power in centers such as Brussels or Washington, DC, perhaps you should lobby for pushing power as close as possible to the communities where individuals actually reside.

[Roborob]

"President Obama" will make Jimmy Carter look like Teddy Roosevelt.

He is running on the same tired old platform the Left of the Democratic Party has been using since 1972. The only difference is his skin color. That might be enough to get him elected, but he will then have to govern. It has been evident in his past electoral achievements that Obama's rhetoric gets him in the door, but cannot muster any achievements. I expect the same from him for the presidency.

The one good thing that will come out of his tenure in the Oval Office will be the direct refutation of the ridiculous conspiracy theories holding the black man down in America. His ascension will at least put that to rest.

[MarkJ]

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

What's terrifying about the above words is that they could have just as easily been uttered by Adolf Hitler in 1945.

[jimmy]

Wow at the melodrama. The truth is that Bush is not the anti-Christ. He’s just a normal guy, a bit brighter and more educated than average; but an average guy placed in an extraordinary position. On whole he’s kept it between the ditches and Obama will do the same… he steered generally right… Obama will steer generally left but; although people exaggerate the policy deviations there’s not a stone’s throw difference in how they’ll govern. We’ll be in for some ridiculous new taxes next year if Obama’s elected but we’ll just hunker down and ride it out ‘til we can throw the bums in Congress out in a repeat of ’94. Then we’ll shore back up to the middle again keeping Obama’s worst tendencies in check and benefiting from his best. We’ve suffered a lawyer at the helm before and got by just fine.

[M. Simon]

Yeah. Let us return to those sterling Carter years. Abandoning friends, embracing enemies, and 15% inflation. Even the Iranians are waxing nostalgic for the terrible Shah. I can see where compared to that Bush is a total disaster. It is enough to make one wax nostalgic for the Carter years.

[Hogarth]

Why it is impossible for Obama to "fail:"

A politician with good rhetorical skills can create a new Garden of Eden in people's minds, though only in their minds. However, that is sufficient, if that vision or illusion can be kept alive until election day, and its failure to materialize afterwards can be explained away by the obstruction of villains.

— Thomas Sowell

The "villians" will be a suddenly "hostile" press ('hostile' being defined by the thin-skinned Obama as providing even a modicum of truth or the mildest of criticism in their reporting) and the minority party in Congress whose first filibuster will be greeted with outrage by the party that used it regularly in new and creative ways.

How can he possibly fail in any meaningful sense of the word? He has yet to he held accountable for anything, including being 100% wrong on the most important decision that would have fallen to him as Commander in Chief. Or any of the messes he left in Illinois. Or any of the questionable cash transactions he's been party to. He has not been held accountable for one damn thing.

[Cap'n Spackle]

For the past 8 years I've enjoyed seeing the leftists employing a "President as chimp" theme in a lot of their commentary. Boy, what fun. Let's continue that after 01-20-2009, shall we? That should be OK. Right?

[Sam]

I honestly think America is overdue for a full blown second Civil War.

This time it is over becoming a socialist state or a free market Constititional Republic. I would fight for the latter and it would have to involve the people who have infiltrated all the institutions of this great nation because they are on the front lines of destoying this country for the Left and the environuts.

An Obama win my push things over the edge into a physical backlash.

[Ted]

Uh, Kate, there's no value placed on 'freedom' by lefty politicians. Indeed, it was Marx who stated, paraphrasing, that free will causes only suffering. Not to say that Obama's some kind of tyrant-in-waiting, but, if 'freedom's your one big issue, you'd need to be voting for Bob Barr or writing in either Fred Thompson or Ron Paul.

[Mike USA]

Look, Jimmy Carter gave us Reagan! If Ford had somehow weaseled his way into a second term, then in 1980 we would have had a (gak!) Ted Kennedy presidency. Reason enough to thank Jimbo in my book.

So, as day follows night, we will have a new Conservative reformation after the delirious disaster of an Obama presidency. The only way to utterly defeat the nitwits on the Left is to give 'em enough rope! Gird your loins for a rough 4 years, but prosperity lies on the other side.

Trust me. The American people are utterly selfish and demanding, and it is this quality that will save them! The Left cannot deliver prosperity, only a gray "equality." If you think Americans are going to stand in line with everyone else, you've got another think coming. Just wait until 2011. "Pissed" won't even begin to describe the country's mood.

[apb]

I love 'progressive' discourse - there's such a broad spectrum, from hate-mongers like Adrian ("bible-thumper") to change-parrots like Kate, and geniuses like Sandy that have probably never read the Constitution but are free with 'shredding' commentary.

Simon has it about right, but his commentary is optimistic to say the least. The big problem with the hopey-changiness phenomenon is that it's spawned from an education system that's crap - a nasty interaction between crap politicians and the self-serving unions supporting them. Eh - at least Pavlov's proven right - the proles vote for rewards, not for complexity.

[George Smith]

Dave M - Save it. Eight years of Bush Derangement Syndrome has given rise to Obama Delsusion Syndrome. Both are impervious to reason. Oh, and for the Euros, I really don't give a dingo's kidney whether you like us or not.

[Cris]

Obama may not be corrupt in the 'Chicago Way' mentioned above, but he is being used and supported by a number of Chicago politicians.
Obama enables corruption by turning a blind eye to those of his supporters who are corrupt. Close advisors and allies are making millions from dubious 'redevelopment projects' Obama supported as an IL State Senator.
His more radical supporters see and use Obama as a front man to advance their socialist agenda. Obama's worst fault is his naivete, coupled with his need for approval from those he has chosen to mentor him.

[C Cannon]

I am at a total loss to understand how Europe, usually so skeptical of the under-experienced American talking sugary optimism, can so readily and wholeheartedly embrace the prototypical American that is Obama?

All of the traits that make America insular and silly are inherent in Obama. He is a smooth talking American salesman who doesn't care what the product is as long as he gets his fat commission. And Europe is falling for this? The Germans are falling for this?

What is wrong with Europe this time?

[Sally White]

Obama is better than McCain and he's not Bush. he's a fresh face with a vision and an inspiring personality. He would make a good president. only in america could you have somebody like him running for presidency, and only in america would the people not see how good they have it. WHYOBAMA08.org!!

[Orion]

It's natural for the politically active to project their hopes and fears on a given candidate. You're afraid the country will fall apart if a Democrat is elected, you think the worst of Obama. You're afraid the country will fall apart if a Republican is elected, you think the worst of McCain. A mature person admits this in himself and guards against it, using his judgment and intellect to weigh the facts carefully and come to a reasonable conclusion.

And then you have the moonbats, "left-brain thinkers" for the most part, who allow their emotions to rule their brains. The ranters in this thread are a good example: "Bush...BAD! Obama...GOOD!" and they cite the conspiracy theory de jour to support their argument.

What I think about Obama is that he is woefully ill-equipped to be President of the United States, he has no executive experience, little time in national politics, and his legislative history is one of bowing unconditionally to the party bosses and voting as told. Look at his recent vote for the FISA bill: he said he would fillibuster it, remember? Reid told him to vote for it and he said, "Oh. OK." At BEST I'd say he'd mimic the failed presidency of Jimmy Carter - except Jimmy at least had some executive experience when he took office. Obama is an empty suit w/o even the benefit of good advisors to fall back on.

[b]

@kate: "It is called freedom and it will sweep them away."

Kate, I must disabuse you of your obvious misconception. Moving toward collectivism does not imply greater freedom. Government involvement in ever more areas of society limits human freedom, not the other way around.

And Adrian, why do you hate your fellow Americans so much? Your hyperbole indicates that you haven't seen much of the real world and are largely ignorant of history. I think it is you who've been living in an "insular", leftist neoreligious echo-chamber.

[Trouble]

'Dave M' and 'John W Meadows' have hit the nail squarely upon the head - Obama is Richard Daley and Jimmy Carter rolled into one.

'Kate' and 'Adrian': We're here. We're not going away. We're breeding. We're teaching our children conservative and individualist values. And we still have our guns. Lots and lots of guns. Moo-hahahaha!

(Was it good for you too?) :-)

- T

[Georgia Dove]

Please remember that McCain has Phil Gramm as his "Eco Advisor" . Have you read his scandel sheets lately? He is a bigot, calls Americans "whiners" and has been involved with the BMS bank of American and Euro filthy rich that hide their true assests to avoid payiing taxes. Vote for McCain? Might has well go back 60 years to slavery. Only this time it will be the filthy rich over any, and all colors of Americans. That is what the Republicans have come to represent. I vote hope, Obama, over ablsolute tyranny, McCain (idiot puppet W) any day.

[sigh]

Reading lefty utopia-speak always makes me want to barf. It's pretty sad to admit to the world that your lives and livelihoods all revolve around who gets elected to office. Sorry to break the news, but your sad and crappy lives aren't going to get better even if your messiah gets elected. Prepare to be let down again. Or perhaps you should start taking care of yourselves intead of waiting on the government to take care of you with my hard-earned money.

[Thomass]

I have to agree with the basic idea of the piece. No matter how badly he fails the dream won’t die. It has no relation to success or failure. As much as some US conservatives disliked Bill Clinton he was actual progress on this front IMO. With his one step forward, now we have Obama, two steps back. Even though Clinton's center leftism was mostly reasonable and worked for democrats...

[Matt]

Once again, it is clear that Europeans do not understand America... and unfortunately all too many Americans (see Kate) wish our country was more like Europe. I guess it only takes a couple of centuries to forget why we left the old-world. History may not repeat itself, but people like Kate are the reason it rhymes.

Democrats love Obama for not what he does or even what he says... they love him because he is a celebrity. Democratic Loyalists don't want politicians to run the country and make difficult decisions... they want Susan Sarandon to make speeches and proclamations. Popular people don't make 'hard' decisions... because they might not be popular. If Obama doesn't learn this, he is doomed before he even starts.

[Bob Schumann]

It is far more important for the people of these United States of America to get it right, than to worry about what the rest of the world and the especially the EU thinks about our form of government and those that are nominated by the people of this great Nation.
It stands to reason that those in Europe, Germany, France and the UK will always want to play 'arm chair quarterback', yet none are willing to openly acknowledge the sacrifice that this nation provided to these countries during WWII. Had it not been for the American spirit and the loss of life that the average American gave to them, during their time of despair, the entire structure of Europe would have changed in an instant.
Did you have oil to sell us during that time? No. Did those same countries make up a significant part of the American economy, through trade? No. So other than defending your right to a chosen Government, what was the reason that we came together and aligned ourselves with your countries? To allow your countries to survive and thrive on your own terms, with your own forms of government.

Now those in the EU feel it important to make statements that the "USA is in a state of failure".

Please remember this. Although all the EU countries have been around hundreds of years more than the USA, you would have not been around today had it not been for the American form of government. So keep your ideological statements and fanatical statements to yourselves. Focus on your own governments and realize, that most of you will may only tolerate or marginally like the USA, we could care less. But remember that we would fight your wars for you again, should the need arrise. And well it may if you continue to believe that a "visionary" in the form of Barack Obama, is the answer to the American presidency.
Iran is only the first of many countries that you should concern yourselves with. Continue to align yourselves with other countries that continually violate human rights and see where that gets you in 20 years.

I for one will not stand by and allow anyone from 'across the pond' to write about my country, when you owe us so much. Lest you forget.

[Michael SH]

I think Obama will lose, because high hopes entail high risk. This democrat certainly will vote McCain. But if he wins he will certainly fail to live up to impossible expectations. (And I blame him for inviting unrealistic expectations, just to get elected.) What he will actually do is unknown; I don't think even Obama knows who he is or what he will do when pressured. He was staggered by impertinent questions by Charlie Gibson of ABC, for God's sake. Do you think the mullahs or hamas are gonna go easy on him?? Neophyte JFK was tested by Kruschev in Berlin and Cuba, and had to grow up fast. Like any sub-goalkeeper he's gonna be facing some early shots, but he may surprise. Like Nixon in China maybe Barry Hussein Obama will be "the one" to bomb Iran. Either way, throw your expectations and "hopes" out the window; the world isn't gonna change for Barry; Barry will be the one to change; that's change you can believe in. (I can't believe Europeans are such suckers for a new pretty face.)

[Faqi]

Anyone is better than the war mongering Bush/Cheney partenship that has basically destroyed America economically; over 4000+ young people dead for no reason and another 28,000 with horrific injuries and people such as Dave M. still cannot see the light. "Whom the Gods wish to destroy they make them mad first"
Americans such as Bush are so ignorant of the outside world. Cheney is something else - not even worth commenting.

[Martin]

I don't agree with all the pro-Obama viewpoints here, and while I support him, I do not see him as a Messiah. Here are replies to a couple of totally off based points listed here. Everyone makes mistakes in speech, they just don't have every word recorded.Does McCain know about the Czech Republic? Probably so. No one of any intelligence can doubt that Obama is well-versed and extremely intelligent. One may think W may have a true confusion on how many states there are ( not unintelligent, just to lazy to check ), but not Obama. Jimmy Carter may have not been effective, but his mistake in Iran was to support the Shah which had always been American policy. Reagan did nothing to get the hostages released, Iran just would not release them before the election to spite Carter. Perhaps if Carter had sold them weapons like the Reagan admin did, he would have gotten off easier. Please people, disagree, but make valid points. This is the Times, not Fox News.

[monkeyfan]

I for one welcome our new socialist overlords...

You know, the revolutionary change agents of the hopechange movement that we "brainwashed" middle American "Right-wing fanatics" fear.

May the nuanced adjustments of the Son of Carter guide his daydream believers in wielding their newly regained freedom that they may "sweep" the forces of dark wingnuttery and hatred "away".

Yup. We'll all finally be able to be happy again when Lord Inevitable frees us from "Bush's nightmare" selection.

Carter knows it's been secular hell suffering in this here "fundamentalist televangelists" "right-wing world of Cheney, Rummy, and Rove" called Amerika the Imperial.

Verily we beg of thee oh'Bama, please teach your children well that they may one day lead us into an appropriate understand of the deep mysteries that veil "social decision-making" from our ken.

Yea though our lust for guns and transfats poison us in your sight, we yet long for the day that your grace washes our brains free of unclean corporate temptations. Spurn us not for we yet suffer under the false consciousness of "mass-simplisticism".

We yearn and we yet take heart upon hearing the trumpeting angels of Hope & Change who doth hearken that victorious November morning whence we the sheeple will finally awaken to the benefits of a new and approved "participatory democracy".

Obama
Of thee I sing.

[George]

Obama is not going to change the system: you work WITH the system to improve it (or beat it, for that matter), but you don't change it - because it is an expression of the society. Only revolutions change the system, which ends up in misery for the protagonists, the supporters, and the opponents alike.

So, he is bound to fail either way. The earlier people realize this, the better for all. Daydreaming about "no politics" is nice, but it is kind of a hippy idea, it doesn't have anything to do with real life.

[Obama is no messiah]

I'm in tears laughing at the European response for Obama.

The most unqualified person ever to run for POTUS, his "followers" a bunch of Jonestown wanna-bees.
Yeah, he will be a real success....ROFLMAO!

[KO-USMC8991]

I used to consider myself somewhat of a liberal. Then I joined the Marine Corps,then Bill Clinton was elected. I WILL NEVER EVER VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT. We were trying to tell people that he was doing his best to destroy the military, one of his Assistant Secretary of the Army (Sarah Lister)called the Marine Corps extremist when discussing the Clinton plan to save money on funding for the servicec (co-ed boot camp-a disaster, training bugets slashed, part of Gores hron blowing about reducing government employment. I rant I know. I am not terribly impressed by either, McCains immigration policy or red carpet for illegals is destible. Obama is an empty suit. I dont know if he actually believes the crap coming out of his mouth but thats exactly what it is, He has done absolutley nothing of substance, two years a senator, a few years in the Chicago Machine. Good G-d you can not actually want this man to get elected. Just what we need the good ole days of Jimmy Carter but of course that will get blamed on Roce Bush Cheney or Big Oil. What really pisses me off is that every time the Democrats propose something that has failed every time its been tried in some other country thier response is they didnt do it right. I am a little biased but I think if Obama is elected America will be in worse finacial shape than it is now, and lose much respect in the other parts of the world with his ass kissing rhetoric

[Bostonian]

Bush derangement syndrome? Whatever happened to Reagan-hating? If I recall, that senile bloodthirsty cowboy was going to provoke a war with the peace-loving USSR and reduce Europe to smoking radioactive rubble. It didn't make the papers over here when it happened.

That's the essence of European thought: often wrong, never uncertain. Despite tearing themselves to pieces in the bloodiest wars in history, they never doubt their wisdom or question their assumptions. They're certain they've got it right this time and every time and we Americans are too arrogant and stupid to do as they say. Let's hope this election is another example of that.

[Onsonpoon]

Election system is made to choose the least worst instead of the best. It is quite inevitable for Obama to betray his supporters who against wars in Iraq and Afganistan because immediate withdrawal of US army will only brought further choas instead of eternal peace to those places. Compare with McCain, it is obvious that Obama will take a less high hand role in dueing with the foreign intervention problems created by G.Bush. Then, for the sake of the World peace and to prevent the situation from deteriorating, Obama will be elected(least worst) and inevitably betray the electors(World peace).

[Jim C.]

"Dreamer or traitor?"

Strictly speaking, it could be neither. Or both.

Adrian near Insanity, er, Seattle, wrote, "The page on the right-wing world of Cheney, Rummy, and Rove will turn, despite the huge resources and the brainwashing prowess of corporate media lobbying and fundamentalist televangelists exerts over much of the American middle....Bush's nightmare has been *that* disastrous for my country."

There's not much I can say to these paranoid delusions except that Adrian should contact his doctor about adjusting his meds.

[Anna Keppa]

I invite Martin to watch Fox News, where he will see more liberal hosts, commentators, analysts, and party operatives than he will on all the other American networks, Dinosaur or Cable, combined.

Or I guess he can continue watching the Beeb, and paying that outrageous tax for the privilege of doing so.

Americans are used to Brits being a nation of people with weak chins and poor teeth, but it's a shame seeing millions of them lose their spines as well. WE at least, will fight to remain a free people.

[Yes?]

Is it a full moon?
Why are there so many crazy people commenting?

[Jack Ratcliffe]

The anti-EU sentiment here is appalling. Not only are the "opinions" of those in the EU being all linked together as simply pro-Obama, but people are questions their right to even have views! This is racist, isolationist and fascist all rolled into one. Brilliant.

[kww]

Jimmy hats off to the best post I have read on these blogs during this tortuous campaign in eons...well said!

Wow at the melodrama. The truth is that Bush is not the anti-Christ. He’s just a normal guy, a bit brighter and more educated than average; but an average guy placed in an extraordinary position. On whole he’s kept it between the ditches and Obama will do the same… he steered generally right… Obama will steer generally left but; although people exaggerate the policy deviations there’s not a stone’s throw difference in how they’ll govern. We’ll be in for some ridiculous new taxes next year if Obama’s elected but we’ll just hunker down and ride it out ‘til we can throw the bums in Congress out in a repeat of ’94. Then we’ll shore back up to the middle again keeping Obama’s worst tendencies in check and benefiting from his best. We’ve suffered a lawyer at the helm before and got by just fine.

Posted by: jimmy | 21 Jul 2008 20:23:21

[Matt]

Forget the media nonsense, all Obama must do to satisfy expectations is WIN (first and foremost) and successfully pursue at least moderate positions (as compared to George II 'The Feeble-Minded's and Uncle Dick's [aka 'the Jackson Hole Rasputin'] Russian-style late-'90's-kleptocractic nationalism).

Simply cleaning house, reestablishing the basics of the rule of law, and even mildly chastising the old regime's military-industrial-petroleum cronies will secure him a position as savior of American democracy in contemporary popular acclaim and history.

[GW Crawford]

This messianic view of Obama is actually very disconcerting for me

Do the followers realize how much they sound like fascists? I am not joking here!

The infallible leader, the obey the state mantras, the subversion of the inidividual for the collective - these are all warning signs

And now we have some loony here saying that he will 'sweep away' the old America

Jesuz tundrin' Cripes! That almost sounds like a quote from the Austrian corporal!

[Anna Keppa]

Does McCain know about the Czech Republic? Back in 2000, the leftnoids tried to disqualify Bush for not knowing a person very few at the time had heard of, namely Peshareff of Pakistan.

Oh and btw: I'm sure Mccain has met the President of the Czech Republic.

[indga]

What fools these Obama supporters be! Imagine being willing to put the welfare of the U.S in the hands of a Columbia-Harvard ignoramus who has never done a blessed thing in his life besides run for office! No, being a "community organizer"—the term reeks of a communist state!—does not qualify anyone for any office outside of Red China, Cuba, Venezuela, or the former USSR. What does he do when he wins office? Based on his non-existent record, NOTHING. He has no idea how many states in the union; no idea of the term of office of a president; no idea of the Constitution of the U.S.—though he is reputed to have taught constitutional law; no idea of U.S. history or anything related to this country; no respect for the symbols of this nation. What on earth does Obama know? He's an empty head and an empty suit with a remarkable facility for reading a teleprompter as if he meant the words displayed.

Heaven help us all if we elect this moron Obama, who thinks he's God.

[Jay]

To Bob Schumann - sorry love, but Americans can't fight their way out of a paper bag let alone win a war. WW2 was won IN SPITE of the US, not becuase of it. The only thing you supplied was syphilis and silk stockings. All the REAL fighting was done by the Brits and their former colonies who were willing to fight long before the Americans joined in. All the brains and intelligence was British. WE cracked the Enigma code despite what Hollywood might have told you and WE invented the programable computer, not IBM. As for Hussein Obama - what a waste of space. No policies, no experience, no brains, no charisma ...wait, on second thoughts, absolutely perfect for America.

[We Need the Funk]

The moonbats are on both sides people. MoveOn.org and focus on the family are both completely out there, and have way too much influence for my taste. Martin is correct in the sense that both Obama and McCain are fairly intelligent, and the next presidency is going to be different from the current dumbass running the country, hopefully better. To those on the left, quit spouting change as a battle cry for obama, find some policies of his to back for christ sake and quit spouting the dogma of an obamamanic. On the right quit saying that obama is going to be the worst president ever, as first he is not yet president so it is just pure and total speculation, and secondly I would say that bush is currently in the running for that position in american history. Please name a success of bush's two terms if you like. Both parties are incompentent as hell and I just hope that some sort of sanity will come out of all this, but I'm a way too cynical to believe that is possible.

[Shirley]

Anna Keppa - who is Peshareff of Pakistan?

[Shirley]

It's interesting how quickly the anti-Obama faction descends into abuse, ignorant anti-European "rhetoric", name-calling, demonising and scaremongering. It's gotten to the point where you can tell if a post has been submitted from that corner of the room just by looking at the number of CAPitAL LETteRS deployed and the poor spelling. The syntax of some of these offerings would make the Gods of language run screaming from the room!
Can someone plese put forward a cogent, articulate and considered point of view - most people know that the conservative wing encompasses many highly literate, incisive, forward looking individuals and we would like to hear from them. Instead we are being bombarded by rants that seem to have been composed by people who think "Deliverance" and "Red Dawn" were documentaries.

[PHINIAS MAKONI]

Barrack Obama may not be the most perfect of Presidential candidates but he would certainly make the grade of a "Lesser Evil." We are praying that America becomes "Big Brother" rather than "Scary Bully", in the Brotherhood of Nations. Under the likes of John McCain, the Brotherhood of Nations will not be a reachable goal. America will simply turn into a killing machine.

[Simon Stephenson]

JOSH : 21 JUL 19.32.11

“The self-analysis necessary to understand their true motivations escapes most people; they are unable to make reasoned, rational choices.”

Are you able to convince me that this is a state of affairs that is inevitable and unchangeable? Is it really a fact that most people are born with brains that are INCAPABLE of becoming rational thought-engines? Must it be taken as a given that, no matter how we nurture and educate, there will always be a majority that is blind to the distinction between personal and abstract? A majority that cannot appreciate that policy assessment requires evaluation of ALL consequences?

Is it not more the case that mass education is deliberately designed to inhibit the development of independent thought? How much focus is on when, who, what and where, and how little is there on how and why? Does an intellectually challenging population cause in our leaders so much fear that they feel the need to maintain a majority made pliable through ignorance?

WILDMONK : 21 JUL 20.12.16

I’m really throwing the idea out for discussion, not necessarily advocating one thing or the other. It may well be the case that society works best when authority is unchallenged intellectually by the general public. Perhaps adroit questioning from below can achieve nothing – all possible considerations having already been evaluated, correctly, by authority.

On the other hand, is it not also possible that authority’s ability to implement precise policy is restricted by popular distrust - a distrust that arises from being in a completely different thought-loop? Might it not be possible that a more intellectually aware population would be more likely to accept that the best decisions are often counter-intuitive?

APB : 21 JUL 20.51.52

Yes, I agree that I’m being optimistic. But the same charge would surely have been made of Wilberforce when he started his campaign for change, wouldn’t it?

It’s also a moot point how many of the shortcomings of the education system are there by design.

[Max]

Indiga, "Red China" basically owns the US at the moment thanks to (Non moronic) Bush. (How much money does the US owe commie China??? No wonder you hate them so much.) Cuba? What did Cuba actually do to you lately? Apart from trying to sell some good cigars? Venezuela? Honestly Chavez just dares to speak the facts as they are.
After reading all the comments here I can only reach one conclusion: Vote McCain. America deserves him.

[davod]

The Europeans posting here may love Obama's rhetoric but it is important to remember the EU and its member countries would never elect Obama as head of the EU or a country. He is the wrong color. And they have the temerity to be critical of the US.

[davod]

"Barrack Obama may not be the most perfect of Presidential candidates"

But he is, he is.

[John Orford]

Anna Keppa asked why so many crazy people were commenting. Not three hours later, she writes the craziest comment of all, not to say the nastiest. Madness is infectious, even on the Net. Beware.

[Josh]

"WE cracked the Enigma code despite what Hollywood might have told you and WE invented the programable computer, not IBM."

Careful, your froth is showing...

Just for the record, the Polish cracked Enigma, the Bletchley Park team turned it into a repeatable process, and the US provided the resources to break the cypher every day.

[British Muslim]

Jay - well said! True, the Bush-Blair love nest did take the Great out of Great Britain but, HEY, swings and roundabouts.

Anna Keppa - Do you mean Musharraf? That's quite ignorant...are you American by any chance? Pakistan love...look it up in any World Atlas and when I say World, I don't mean the same World as in World Series.

We Need The Funk - Spot on. In addition all Politicians will say anything to win votes and do everything to keep their wealthiest members...wealthy.

Jimmy - I agree with what you've written but mate, Bush should consider pursuing a Hollywood career post White House because he's so good at playing dumb. Alternatively, he can be in a stage version of "Of Mice and Men" - guess which part.

Shirley - "Deliverance" and "Red Dawn" were documentaries - I chuckled. I went to an American Sports Bar a couple of years ago and as well as pictures of various athletes they had a portrait of "Rocky" up on the wall. I'm a fan of "Rocky", but if I was Muhammad Ali...I'd be pissed. Enough said.

[Farmer McDonald]

Nice set of comments, best I have seen for a while. The one with the guns had me rolling on the floor. After getting up and brushing off the hay and dust, I realized how silly the Obama supporters are - throwing slam comments out like they are gods without a need to backup their words. Who is going to vote the monkey into office, everyone, since all of us can be compared to one.

[John Paul Telhomme]

On what do you base your argument that he will fail or succeed? How does he compare to the person he will soon succeed? The little bit you have written indicates that you are persuaded not by facts or logic or reality but by something else. Obama will be one of the best Presidents.

[Jeff]

This article is an incoherent bunch of nonsense? Exactly what "daydream" are you talking about? Obama's positions are modest and realistic. He's proposing minor steps towards improving US healthcare, surely nothing as dramatic as the current British system, which apparently is working quite well. He's proposing getting out of Iraq, and slightly increasing taxes on the wealthy back to where they were before Bush took office and introduced one of the largest tax cuts for the rich in American history in terms of dollar amounts (with the massive and growing economic disparity in the US).

I don't see what is so "dreamy" about this. In addition, I don't see what you are calling a "daydream" about the prospect of a non-white, internationally raised man taking the helm in Washington. This is something that certainly many in the US have long been waiting for and the world has been waiting for as well, and there is nothing "daydreamy" about it.

[kenneth jones]

don't suggest that we americans are all so naive that we think suddenly global warming and recession will magically end if obama takes office; many of us just don't believe in rewarding the republicans with another president.

[kenneth jones]

MARTIN: thank you for an oasis of intelligence!

[Mary]

YES!!!!! You people understand! I'm only 10 years old, and I saw that, if he's president, then after he pulls the troops and what not, there WILL be terrorists.

[Nathan]

What is "Naive" to one is "Wisdom" to another. Both are the reality nonetheless. Of course, it would be naive to think that any scoffer could be expected to do anything but laugh at simple solutions to immense problems. As for what is real and what is merely a pipe-dream...if believing that anything is possible in an infinite universe filled with infinite possibilities is only a fantasy, then *I* would prefer to be counted as one of the dreamers in this world. But that is not because such cynicism is correct in my own estimation; rather, anything short of a belief in the process of perfection [as opposed to the state of it] is really not worthy of attention as far as I am concerned. In other words, nothing will so much as ensure failure as contempt prior to investigation! But all of you "know-it-alls" you just keep talking. All you scoffers---scoff away! By your own ideas about it, if you didn't, then this wouldn't be "the Real [imperfect] world" now would it?

[Ernest Brown]

Speaking of the EU:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL2047833920080720

It appears that the leadership class is a little more sanguine about the Obamanation than the hoi polloi, especially considering his disgusting treatment of Brown.

As for the Obama groupies who want to be EU-style subjects of a fascistic Kafkaesque bureaucracy and not free citizens:

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

[Kimberly]

Thank you Jimmy.

Wow at the melodrama. The truth is that Bush is not the anti-Christ. He’s just a normal guy, a bit brighter and more educated than average; but an average guy placed in an extraordinary position. On whole he’s kept it between the ditches and Obama will do the same… he steered generally right… Obama will steer generally left but; although people exaggerate the policy deviations there’s not a stone’s throw difference in how they’ll govern. We’ll be in for some ridiculous new taxes next year if Obama’s elected but we’ll just hunker down and ride it out ‘til we can throw the bums in Congress out in a repeat of ’94. Then we’ll shore back up to the middle again keeping Obama’s worst tendencies in check and benefiting from his best. We’ve suffered a lawyer at the helm before and got by just fine.

Posted by: jimmy | 21 Jul 2008 20:23:21

[Joanna]

"The USA is in a state of failure. If it doesn't change it doesn't deserve to survive."

America is going through some changes but we are not "in a state of failure"

I'll tell you what, worry about your own country. We never hear any good news coming out of England. It's all bad. It seems you are being taken over by radical muslims and knife wielding thugs. Clean up your own backyard.

[Ruth]

What everyone seems to conveniently forget is that it is not political acumen that gets the US President elected - it is money. That is why Americans have been lumbered with W for the last eight years and why Cheney has been his deputy.

[megapotamus]

The pivot on the war came long ago. During one of the first Dem debates not ONE of the three frontrunners (remember Edwards?) would vow to be out of Iraq IN THEIR FIRST TERM! Of course this obvious bit of sense could not survive the Dem nominating process. Wake up Leftwing dummies! Even Barry is not stupid enough to actually plan to govern on the principles of Kumbaya. He lied his way through the primaries. He will lie his way through the election and as we see with the NYT, he can count on a blocking force from the press on any and every topic. Sadly for him, the pressies are no smarter nor accomplished than he is; the editor of the Harvard Law Review that never wrote a single thing? "Present" 130 times? Barry is the logical endstate of racial hiring, otherwise known as affirmative action. He's never done, thought, or said a worthwhile thing in his life and yet is elevated to a high estate, perhaps the highest. In this, the pressies see themselves reflected. And they like it. It would be hilarious if we didn't know what is at stake.

[Daphne Kenward]

Perhaps UNCLE SAM, can save FANNIE & FREDDIE. & McSAME can start the next war, because Obama will think before he act. Thats why he is popular in Europe, becaues we don't want to be lead by the NOSE into another WAR! based of false evidence.

[Alma]

It is incredible to me the fact that we continue to wonder about having another republican government.

The fact is that the republican government lied about the Iraq war...lied about Katrina...lied about protecting the American citizens' jobs and homes...now they want to give our land to the big oil companies to benefit...a so much more.

Republicans would love to have an intelligent, young, strategic, and well spoken and loved candidate like Obama.

Republicans instead of showing some remorse and true patriotism for how much they have betrayed their own values and the country...no, they still continue to try to impose on the American public and old man who is losing his memory and his self-imposed calm. It is embarrassing to me that they continue to push for more...They do not have the right.

How many games does one have to lose to be thrown out of it? This game has been lost way too many times.

It is time for a democratic government.

[penny]

"The USA is in a state of failure."

Hey, Kate, if you're an American you don't speak for me. You're hyperbole is ridiculous. If you are a Brit I suggest you take a hard look around at the utter mess Britain is right now thanks to a decade of Labour Nanny State policies including runaway immigration and being soft on crime. There are many Americans like myself that won't chose the utterly vacuous, disingenuous and socialist leaning Obama. It's an issue of merit rather than race.

[Jan van Eck]

The realities of governments are demonstrated by their reactions to the slightest of interactions with ordinary people.

I recently took a bus trip to D.C. with the Boy Scouts. The tour bus intended to run down Constitution Avenue to view the Capitol, the monuments, and the White House. Two blocks from the Capitol the bus was stopped and boarded by heavily-armed police, who dourly surveyed the Boy Scouts and Scoutmasters aboard. His response: "Nope. Can't let you go past the Capitol. Detour North to Union Station and go around."

The Scouts were treated to the spectacle of our nation's "leaders" cringing behind the skirts of armed policemen. We have entered an era where the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts are potential enemies.

The next day the Scouts went back to the Capitol to tour the building. They were required to stand in line outside for three hours in the broiling sun to pass "security." The message is clear: the Government is frightened of its people.

And therein lies the problem for Barack Obama and the Democrats: D.C. and the Congress are controlled by the Democrats. There is no "home rule" in D.C. The police simply do whatever their political masters demand of them. And those authorities are hiding behind the skirts of the police, separated from the People.

This is why I predict John McCain will win in November. You may not much like his platform, but one cannot picture John McCain hiding behind hydraulically-powered barricades and armed policemen. It is a message that was made abundantly clear to the Boy Scouts and their chaperones. And, I suspect, to everyone else that goes to visit the Nation's Capitol.

[Southern Belle]

Jay, I am sorry that you did not find the 416,000 US military lives that we sacrificed in WWII to be acceptable. Please return them for a full refund.

[Reflecting_Pool]

The question posed was "Is Obama a betrayal waiting to happen?" The answer is "No, Obama is a betrayal that is already happening as we speak." He voted for FISA, which trashes constitutional protections of Privacy Rights and grants immunity to those who violate those Rights. And now he's sounding more like Bush on the Iraq fiasco than McCain. The Obama slogan "Change you can believe in" has already been trumped and repudiated by Obama's actions, which unmistakably track the "business as usual" pandering acquiescence that his supporters so greatly detest. The betrayal is present tense, not future tense.

[Simon]

Where does it say ''Kate'' isn't an American?.

If she is American, some posters here will look a bit stupid, won't they.

[Stan]

"Susan Sarandon, the actress, said she might emigrate to Italy or Canada if McCain won "

Well cry me a river, she said this in 2004, 2000 and probably 1988, 1980, I wish she'd just do it and take the rest of the Hollyweirds with her.

I'm still wrestling with just what exactly qualifies Obama to be president ? He's done pretty much nothing to demonstrate any capability for the job as far as I can tell..

[Esther]

Why are a lot of the conservatives posting here so incredibly angry and filled with invective? There's been a republican president in power for the last eight years - aren't you basking in the success and looking forward to continuing the run (because, of course, everyone is delighted by the way things have turned out).
As patriots don't you have the utmost trust and faith in your fellow Americans to make the right decision for your country?
Surely you recognise that the democratic system you have worked so hard to spread throughout the rest of the world will ultimately triumph?
So what's the problem?

[john]

We have no true liberals running for office in the classical sense of that word. Obama is a cryptomarxist and the whole "right" wing of the Republican Party are empire mongers who advocate perpetual warfare until, perhaps, the last muslim fanatic with an AK 47 is flushed out of some cave in Pakistan. The idea that people should be left alone to pursue whatever freedom allows them to pursue without taxing them to death is decried as "selfish." The idea that we should leave other nations alone and not dictate policy is ridiculed as "isolationist." The two are a sure path to ruin, bankruptcy and totalitarianism. Ron Paul was the one lone voice who offered some degree of hope and reason, but the Republicans would not have him.
Me? I am collecting gold and silver as fast as I can get them. Perhaps the next generation will embrace freedom and reject statism from both the right and left.

[PAOK]

I've read a lot about what Obama is, but not a single word about McCain (except "...vote for McCain")! Can anyone comment on the virtues of this man, who is ready to commence the third world-petrol war?
Time to wake up guys, you are voting for a pseudopatriot, a mere (antichristian - please take a careful look in his past) lobbyist.

[Esther]

John - are you purchasing the gold and silver on the profit driven commodities market or from reputable (regulated) retail outlets? Or are you mining it? Just curious.