Do the Obamacons exist?

How real a phenomenon is the Obamacon?

This phrase, coined (I think) by Robert Novak is gaining currency in the US. It is the new title for conservatives who back Obama.

The San Francisco Chronicle is on the case, listing a half dozen or so conservatives who back the Democrat. Each of the individuals was a considerable figure but the list taken together didn't overwhelm me. Not yet at least.

Over on RealClearPolitics Thomas Sowell explains why he, as a conservative, remains deeply unconvinced by Obama.

So is it correct to dismiss it as just another neat little columnist's phrase? Not entirely.

First, the very fact that there is a debate on the subject at all suggests that the momentum of the campaign is strongly with Obama.

Second, it helps to validate Obama's shift towards the centre.

And third, the list, such as it is, includes libertarians as much as conservatives. There is just a very slight hint of the way Reagan's Republican coalition is crumbling.

However, before the Obamacons can be considered truly significant they need to represent more than a few individuals. They have to bring with them real votes - centrists peeling off from the Repulicans.

It is very easy to see that happening. That's why you can't just dismiss the Obamacons.

Comments

[dave from ga]

The Obama camp and the DNC/Party would
definitely like to think that they exist, BUT, in the end the so-called Obamacons will not vote for anyone with NO EXPERIENCE. The ongoing flip-flopping on major issues just proves to all of us Independents,Republicans and Conservatives that the Dems are only the "man for the moment types", just saying what they think the groups that they are addressing want to hear!WE ARE NOT READY FOR SOCIALISM and will NOT VOTE FOR IT!!!What kind of mushrooms have the Dems been smoking? They blew their best chance when they undermined HRC. She had more knowledge about what is going on in our government than he would ever like to acknowledge!

[Esther]

"She had more knowledge about what is going on in our government than he would ever like to acknowledge!"
Dave - I think that may be one of the main reasons WHY they undermined her.

[Marbury]

Dear Dave, careful with those caps, they can make you sound like a loony, which I'm sure you're not. My take on this that Obama will win very few Republican votes, in the end, because of his positions on abortion and taxes in particular. But if he can convince some of them that, well, they could live with this guy - then those voters are unlikely to vote or organise for McCain in the numbers McCain needs them to.

[J. Russell]

Obamacons! That's like saying there are liberal conservatives. You can support Obama, you can be a conservative, but you can't do both. It's a political gimick and an oxymoron. It's like free market communisim. It does not exist.

[Steve]

From a staunch conservative, the answer to your question is absolutely NO! People who claim they are ObamaCons also go by another name in the conservative movement – RINO “Republican In Name Only!” They only claim to be conservative in an attempt to draw in center right voters. Anyone with any conservative credentials will not vote for this socialist!

[Taylor Lindsay]

As a moderate republican I'm indifferent to either of my options. Obama is showing his lack of experience and McCain is ....well, McCain. I do find it hard to believe that the San Francisco Chronicle (or San Francisco as the city for that matter) could be any kind of accurate barometer for the rest of the country. I'd put more stock in an election report done by Rolling Stone.

[Kd]

All the constant admonition against the use of caps in the comments across the web grows tedious. Debate the ideas, please, not the passion and individuality of the poster. Until all comments sections have the ability to bold and italicize, capitalize to your hearts' content. All this "do not shout at me stuff" is downright silly .

[Dallas MacDonald]

Are we forgetting about the Democrats that will not vote for Obama? I am a Republican, and I am hardly enchanted with John McCain, but I have a clear desire to see someone in office with experience.

This article didn't mention AT ALL about the Democrats that can't get over Hillary losing...

[Allen]

Fact: McCainocrats outnumber any Rpublicans supporting Obama and the polls PROVE it.

How can conservatives possibly think of voting for the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate?!

[Joel T]

"Experience" is only as good as the judgement that is backing it. Dick Cheney has a lot of experience in the executive branch, but I would never want him running the country.

[Alf A Sol]

Conservatives voting for Obama?? Give me a break. Some of them, including me, may not be enamored by McCain, but do you really think a true conservative is going to vote for the most Liberal member of the Senate, no matter how he tries to paint himself. The best Democrats can hope for is that they will stay home on election day. Hope and Change? You better believe there will be change if Obama is elected. And I don't imagine it will be in a direction to the liking of conservatives.

[Dawn]

The only Conservative following that Obama might ever be likely to get in the polling booth on Election Day would be from within the Libertarian ranks. Unfortunately for the Senator from Illinois, the Libertarian vote will be in Bob Barr's column, not Obama's.

The Obamacon is a total myth and is quite wishful thinking. Dave from Georgia was dead on in his assertion that true American Conservatives would never vote for the socialism that is personified by Obama and many other far-Leftwing Democrats.

Dawn "ConservaChick" McCurry
Louisville, Kentucky (USA)

[Richard]

Any true conservative who has bothered to review Obama's extreme left views could not in good conscience vote for him. He's a marxist.

[Bob Johnson]

Is an Obamacon anything like... a Decepticon?

[Matthew]

I have an Obamacon facebook group. Given McCain's heresy, I am about 60/40 to vote for Obama.

[Dena, Jacksonville, Florida]

Well, this Republican planned on voting for Obama, but that was before he changed his mind and decided he'd give AT&T, Verizon, etc. retroactive immunity for breaking the law. I couldn't get immunity for jaywalking... It appears Obama is just another elitist, protecting his own.

[Marti]

the term is actually spelled...Obamacans...with an "a"

maybe you were thinking of "neocons"

nothing about Obama could be combined with them..lol

[Becca]

Dave Relax...Barack Obama is not a flip flopper...it's RNC fabricated.

Barack Obama isn't out there saying any old thing just because he thinks it's what people want to hear...He's consistently talked about, "telling you what you need to hear not what you want to hear."

Listen up Dude...he isn't a socialist (HRC was more so with her socialized medicine and mandates) hasn't flip flopped anywhere..

Geez give the guy a fair hearing atleast....instead of spouting off RNC talking points...or other pseudo-analysts and strategists...they flat out lie or don't know what the hek they're talking about to begin with...Don't you understand all this by now?

Barack has enough experience with the intellect and judgement...He is older than Thomas Jefferson, Bill Clinton and JFK....8 years in Senate...worked on the streets with all Political groups, police departments...you name it...and long enough in the Senate to understand the stupid freaking game...Keen intellect and lots of common sense. It is in his DNA to lead...I often think that people have seen a true leader in so long that they don't know one when they see it...so freak out. Relaxed the dude is grounded and has the perfect tempermant to be a great president. Better get used to it now because he's going to be our next one...
Obama is no socialist either

[nathan]

wow..... Dave you say socialism...........
You sound like my grandfather.....
He is a VERY old guy....
Remember we are the ones that will be taking care of you older guys when you finally go looney.... if not already?!?

[Michael]

My wife and I are both registered Republicans and we will both be voting for Obama. We are definitely more centrist than the right wing of the party but I know a lot of Republicans who will not vote for McCain, they would rather stay home.

Obama is not a socialist, he is actually a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I can live with that compared to the fiscally irresponsible social conservative we have had over the last seven years.

[ryan]

my problem with obama is that he says he going to do something, but he doesnt tell us his plans. so basically he is trying to remain neutral to gain votes, i think he is a liar

[Alistair Wood]

Dave's comment that "WE ARE NOT READY FOR SOCIALISM and will NOT VOTE FOR IT!" is one of the reasons moderates will go for Obama. That Republicans can imagine that a moderate like Obama is a socialist shows how far to the right they have gone. Try studying some history from outside the borders of the US and find out what socialism is.

[gtfomurdoch]

I'm conservative. I'd vote for him.

[Kim]

I have been a Republican for 30 years. I have stayed loyal to my party. It has taken the Bush presidency, a Republican Congress and the irrelevant content of this year's Republican primary debates to push me over the edge. I DO NOT like what is going on in government today.

Under President Bush, the federal deficit has climbed $2 trillion. Federal spending has gone out of control. I began to wonder, if Republicans are going to behave like Democrats, why not take a look at the real thing?

Mr. Obama is fresh. I began by thinking he was inspirational. I now believe that he is necessary.

Barack Obama embodies a new worldview. He speaks with candor and elegance against the kind of politics that have become so dispiriting – and for the kind of America I would like to see. I find Mr. Obama to be prudent, thoughtful, and courageous. His life story embodies the conservative values that go to the core of my beliefs.

I might wince when the primary official stamps "Democrat" on my voting card. But if that's what it takes to make a fundamental change, I'm ready for it.

[Alan]

Obama is definitely a fiscal liberal. There is no question about that. I believe he is a watered down socialist because of his apparent view of how we should take care of our problems (mainly, his frequent solution of creating government programs to fix problems). Either way, calling him a fiscal conservative is crazy. Look at these programs he is lauding (all quotes come from Obama's Blueprint for Change found on his website):

1) Health care. Obama writes that he will form a national health insurance plan to cover all Americans, and that "no American will be turned away FROM ANY INSURANCE PLAN because of illness or preexisting condition". Now, its a little ambiguous whether that means he's only talking about plans under his national plan, or if he wants to legislate rules for all current insurance providers. Later, in describing his national health care exchange plan, he writes that "the Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public blan and have the same standards for quality and efficiency", so I feel like that implies the latter. This sounds great for consumers, until you realize the way an insurance company makes its money is by hedging a bet that you won't get sick. If you're already sick when you buy insurance and they have to take you, then they lose money. The insurance industry becomes unprofitable, and so prices either a) skyrocket across the board, or b) private companies close down. In which case we'll be left with even more people dependent on a government system which will be paid for by our tax dollars. I'm not sure if that's what I'd call fiscally conservative.

2) Economics. His economic policy is the brunt of the "fiscal conservative / socialist" argument, so lets dive in. His trade policy includes "stand[ing] firm against agreements that undermine our economic security" sounds good, but that is a euphemism for protectionst trade policies. This is not the mentality of a fiscal conservative. His policies also include establishing "a five-star rating system so that every consumer knows the risk involved in every credit card", "double funding for after-school programs", expanding "the Family medical Leave Act", bankruptcy law reform, etc. Many of these programs, I admit, look great. It sounds good, and there were other things that I didn't quote, including tax credits for low-income families, that also sound nice. However, none of these programs, which increase beuracracy, government involvement in our lives, and the redistribution of wealth support the idea that he is a 'fiscal conservative.' The way I see Obama's plan is that he's taking a "treat the symptoms" approach, which may work for a while, and will certainly make him popular, but it will not fix our economy. The Bush tax cuts gave tremendous tax relief to the upper class, but it's often overlooked that they pay tremendous amounts of tax more than the average person. When an evil corporation is allowed to control more of its own money, rather than having to put money into taxes, wages have a chance to rise. This is infinitely more efficient than trusting Washington to collect the money, process it, identify who needs it most, and then redistribute it to those people. It is a system that rewards the workers who work, and not a blanket reward that rewards both the hard working poor and the not-so-hard-working poor.

Do I think John McCain is a good conservative? Not really. Do I think George W. Bush has been a good conservative? No, quite frankly he has done a lot of things that have hurt this country domestically, regardless of what you think about foreign policy. But is Barak Obama, in a domestic and fiscal sense, the beacon of hope he portrays himself as? In the short term, perhaps, but none of his solutions have legs that can support this country without devolving into a system that is, decidedly, socialist.

[Bob]

There is no way that I could back a racist. Anyway this guy is an idiot when it comes to the ways of the world. He does nothing but blows smoke up the @$$ of the people who do follow him.

People wake up and smell the coffee. This guy will run the US down farther than it already is right now.

[Tom]

Obamacons sounds like some weird disease of the feet. In all seriousness, Obama is not going to win. The American people know he is nothing more than an empty suit. If you listen to him try and talk without a teleprompter it could make your head explode. It's like an old outboard engine trying to start after sitting for a winter in the shed - brrrrppp, flttr, flttr, brrrrp, flttr, flttr. Obama is going to go back to the sordid political swamp in Chicago he sprang from, and maybe make a few appearances with Big Al Gore, Mr. Warmplanet himself.

[Jason]

"Under President Bush, the federal deficit has climbed $2 trillion." Do you even know what the deficit is? Of course it's getting bigger, our country is getting bigger therefore we need more spending money. If you don't understand that then I'd suggest you look into exactly what the federal deficit really is and why we couldn't pay it off even if we had a check for $2 trillion in hand.

I don't understand why everyone wants all of these programs. And how anyone could not view them as socialist. Is there something wrong with being left alone to be responsible for your own life? Government has only one job to do, protect its citizens. Not lead them through life on some messed up agenda.

Oh, and I've been to those other countries you talk about. Want to guess why we're the super power? I'll give you hint, it's because we were founded as a Republic, NOT Socialism or a Democracy (Although we do have some Democratic overtones, mainly the House of Reps.). No socialist government ever became a super power... Unless you consider tyrants like Hitler (look up what the NSDAP is), which is exactly what Socialism does. Create monsters.

Not to mention you want to try and take Obama's word on something? He may have 8 years Senate experience, but he has 20 years radical christian experience that he conveniently just turned away from. Either way you look at it it's bad. And there's supposed to be a character comparison between that and McCain? McCain has been through more hell in POW camp for this country than 99% of us will ever understand, let alone experience.

You guys can vote for the guy too good to put his hand over his heart for his country. I know who I'm voting for.

[Bill Lamb]

"8 years in Senate...worked on the streets with all Political groups, police departments...you name it."

Becca,

You need to redo the math. BHO gave a speech at the 2004 DNC convention as a young and upcoming Democrat who was running for the Senate seat from IL. He has barely finished 3 years, let alone 8 years. He would have to be into his second term to have 8 years of Senate experience. And for two of the 3+ years he has been in the Senate he has been running for President. That leaves him 1+ years of "experience" as a Senator. That hardly qualifies him to be President.

And as for "worked on the streets with all Political groups, police departments...you name it...", am I supposed to be impressed by that resume? I supposed it helped him to get elected as a State Senator in IL. Once again, serving as a State Senator hardly qualifies the man to be President.

He has no experience, period! And people actually want to elect him as President? I'm praying that God's hand will be on the elections in November and that BHO loses. We can't survive with him in office for 4 years.

[Terry Santiago, Bronx, NY]

Undermine?? Government?? Change??? Knowledge?? Experience?? Who voted for the war?? Who's better in the policy of Economics?? Personally, if I wanted a president that knew all the answers I would vote for myself. But being that I'm not running...YET!!! I think in the current state of Economic decline, joblessness, etc are the top concerns of the country. How are you going to argue that Hilary or MCCain are better for the job, when for the most part both of their campaigns were in essence BANKRUPTED. Any of the country's most revered presidents weren't liked because they had all the answers. They were liked and remembered because they had the presence of mind to know they didn't know everything and knew who to talk to. MCCain nor Hilary have convienced me that they have that ability. Obama, has, he has to remain strong, fight for the American people, but at the same time talk to his ADVISORS in order to get their opinion on a course of action. Do you think President Bush during his 8 failed years listened to anyone but the little voice in his head. My guess is it's very doubtful. Obama, will listen to the people, he will listen to his advisors, he will be the only candidate that will work hand and hand with Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Libertarians, alike to ensure everyone that this is OUR country. Not a Democratic or Republican country. Our Country!! MCCain, I'm sorry will not win in November if he's still fighting for the support of his own party. He's had the Republican Nomination for five months now, and he still hasn't put out a clear concise message(what is his slogan again). Obama has been the Democratic nominee for almost a month and has maintained an average 5 point lead. So the question do I believe there are OBAMACONS. Yes, there are asked Colin Powell, Senator Hagel and many others to follow.

[Margaret]

Just one more really pathetic PR ploy, designed to scare conservatives into supporting McCain/McSame rather than see Obama elected. Neither one have ANY support of conservatives, most of who are planning to vote third party this year, and IF Obama manages to pull off a presidency, we'll still be on the same track that Bush/Clinton/Clinton/Bush/Bush has put us on. In almost everything that matters there is actually very little difference between the two parties any longer, and a HUGE divide between the government and its people. We clearly have been given two incompetent puppet candidates and to be honest, that is very much resented by the American people.

[lib_con]

funny a comment says Obamacons are like free market communism - that called the DoD friends. A closed system with fixed prices that promotes the illusion of being open so the old guard can make a huge unrealistic profit. In the end there is really so little difference between republicans and democrats anymore that debating the difference is a waste of mental power. Republicans spend more than democrats - democrats try to pay the bill in real time where the republicans just put it on the countries tab.