Wanted: Neo Nazi with typing skills

Fancy a career as a neo-fascist? Want to boast Nick Griffin as a friend of a friend? Think fellow traveller would look good on your CV?

Then I hope you are reading the Guardian.

Comment Central reader and blogger Nick Anstead has sent me these two extraordinary advertisements in Guardian Jobs.

I hope you like them, because you paid for them. These BNP posts were not only accepted by the Guardian, they were placed by the Greater London Authority.

Comments

[Guido Fawkes]

Another reason to end taxpayer funding of political parties.

[Esther]

Well, I'd be really interested to to see the criteria used for shortlisting candidates and the notes from the interviews.

[Sid]

And I'm sure, as a GLA appointment, the Authority's 'Equal Opportunities and Diversity Policy' will be respected in the recruitment process.

'The Authority will work towards eliminating all discrimination, on the grounds of race (including institutionalised racism), gender, gender reassignment, disability, sexuality, age and faith.'

http://www.london.gov.uk/gla/tenders/docs/equal_opportunities.pdf

[william]

the bnp is a democratic legitimate party, if white English people had a voice in local or national government this party would be no threat, we have not, so it is, shame on the English hating government for forsaking us

[Stu]

That's right William. The Commons and the Lords are both shamefully lacking in white English people.

[Jez W]

Dear Guardian,

i'm a little tied up at the moment but am very interested in the above post. Once i am done with present bindings i would bend over backwards for positions of this type.

Yours sincerely,

M. Mosely.

[chris strange]

Where else would you expect them to advertise? Certainly not The Times.

[adam]

Surely the best response is to get the job and make such a mess of it that the BNP is (even more) ineffectual at the GLA.

[Dave T]

I have absolutely no time for the BNP, their policies or their personalities but they are a legal and legitimate political party. Unless and until they are banned as a social or political menace, they should and must have the same rights to advertise, have bank accounts and so forth as any other minority party such as the Greens. The right of free speech is worth nothing if it is only the right to say those things we agree with.

[Dave T]

I would also say that I am disappointed by the commentator. He lists the ads, makes a snide comment or two then walks away without discussing his objections in any more detail than 'Well, I do not like this so you should not as well.'

[Tango Bravo]

Dave T is spot on: like it or not the BNP have been democratically elected, and have the same rights as any other political party to express themselves. The evil of "political correctness" is that it seeks to make a very narrowminded view of the world compulsory. Anyone who applies for a local authority job these days is forced to sign up to an agreement that they endorse the authorities "race relations policies" - possibly a problem for the BNP worker! Why should these dictatorial rules exist? what is so evil about Council workers having our own opinions on racial matters?

[Chris]

Daniel, like so many of your articles you fail to see a paradox in your postion. You wish the BNP did not exist due to its (alleged) neo-fascists views. Yet your wish to outlaw them is equally undemocratic and is not a step short of trying to create a 'perfect' society the Nazi's were so intent on creating.

[Anthony E. Price]

I agree wholeheartedly with ADAM's comment: "The right of free speech is worth nothing if it is only the right to say those things we agree with."

Neither the BNP the GLA or the Guardian are breaking any law.

[Kuffar Resistance]

Neo Nazi? Who decided to add that on? I'm a law abiding, tax paying, insurance paying, left/right indicating, police helping decent member of our downtrodden indigenous population! I would have been at the front of the line to execute Hitler and his cronies for crimes against humanity. And I am a BNP voter and supporter thanks to the traitorous actions of successive government - Conservative AND Labour. I personally find Nick Griffens comments about the Holocaust terribly ignorant at best - but the BNP isnt about the Holocaust OR the Jews - it's about the Brits.

[R.Rowan]

An old saying something along the lines of not agreeing with what is said but defending the right to say it,is being changed to I don't agree with what is said nor should anyone else and you have no right to say it.That seems to me to be more than a little fascist itself.

[Nick Anstead]

I really am very surprised that I have to revisit this issue to explain the problems with this ad to some of the commentators up here, who really don't seem to understand the concept of free speech.

I think I will quote Dave T to demonstrate my point of view: "they [the BNP] should and must have the same rights to advertise".

What on earth do you mean? There is no such thing as the right to advertise! "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of slogans"? What a ridiculous idea.

Advertising in this country is based on a private monetary exchange which two parties willingly enter into. So my point is this - why did the Guardian choose to enter into this contract for this particular advertisement, when it must have known what it was advertising?

If the Guardian had refused the ad, they would not have been damaging the BNP's freedom of speech (incidentally, it is also questionable whether organisations can have rights, but let's leave that to one side for now), as the Guardian jobs bulletin board is a privately managed space. Imagine I wanted to come and give a three hour lecture on a very boring topic. I would be entitled to do it at Speakers Corner. You might (rightly) take offence if I tried to do it in your front garden. If you asked me to leave, would you have breached my freedom of speech? No, of course not.

In this case, given the editorial line of the newspaper, the Guardian are guilty of gross hypocrisy for accepting the ad.

One final point - people seem determined to quibble with Danny's definition of the BNP as neo-fascist. Leaving aside the raft of considered political opinion (not, I will add, from anti-fascist activists, but from established, internationally ranked academics) who define the BNP as neo-Fascist, I will offer my definition of a fascist party.

1. A radical racially-based ideology.
2. Committed to realising that ideology, firstly through violence, intimidation and generating fear at street level, and secondly, through a usurpation of the state.

I am comfortable that the BNP fulfils both criteria, in action and aspiration.

[Barry Breslau]

Great idea of an above commentator: Ban the BNP from the political process.
- Fascists view democracy as weakness, so they have no place in it mechanisms, as they merely seek to subvert it.
As for paying for their advertising? Indeed this is part of the funding deal for a political party; therefore if most normal right-thinking people despise them, they ought to be banished from the process.

[sweetalkinguy]

If you look at the advertisements, it is clear that the employer is the Greater London Assembly, not the British National Party. Therefore, applications for a job with this "equal opportunities" employer ought to be open to all candidates regardless of age, race, sex, sexual orientation, class, creed, colour or ability. The persons appointed to hold these two posts will presumably have the same employment rights as any other GLA employee, including the right to move to another job of equal standing if the BNP member ceases to be a member. Presumably also the the GLA offers better prospects for advancement than the BNP, unless your name is Ray Lewis or Nick Boles.

The question should be whether the taxpayer should fund support staff for elected members, or whether this should come out of the member's salary/expenses or be paid by the party to which the member belongs. Events at Westminster suggest that it is better that all staff should be centrally employed under a common set of rules, and that their cost be accounted for from a central budget open to public scrutiny.

[Jon H]

Barry, our current government constantly subverts democracy. That's why no one got to vote for Brown or the Lisbon treaty.

[Joe]

I wouldn't feel comfortable voting BNP, and I won't do so -- But the BNP would be no more than a fringe party if the mainstream parties hadn't so grossly ignored the white working class. England brought it on themselves -- all that PC nu labour nonsense about there being "no such thing as a British person" and "we are all a nation of immigrants" rubbish, as if the British nation didn't exist until the massive immigration of the late 90's onwards -- no wonder people are turning to the BNP. Tell people for too long that they are worthless and have no identity and culture,and that their concerns are of no importance, as the Nu labour PC multi culti lot have done then don't be surprised if the British people get fed up eventually.

[Mark Greenwood]

I have black friends. I work hard pay my taxes and dont commit crime. I would have hated the Nazis if I had been around in those days. And I vote BNP.

So Mr Smug Liberal journalist, your point is what exactly?

[larry]

Tlaking about the B.N.P which I am againest. Why is the muslim religion allowed when it is known that the people are not allowed to leave it or they are threatened with death. Women are refered to as inferior to men. Homesexuallity is banned and worse and yet they are allowed to practise all of these while a friendly back is turned.While people are being jailed for much less.
I think it is possible that a lot of Muslims came here to escape such things and are unable to say so and yet the stupidity and the weakness of the political correct give them no way out.

[Tex Antonio]

Nelson Mandela worked as a fund gatherer for the South African version of the BNP - the only difference he is feted by fools like Lord Kinnock whom was jealous of Roy Jenkins as an unelected commissioner in Europe and was going to go into a unelected post in the House of Lords; that was in the run-up to the first devolution debate where Kinnock mimmicked an Hitler salute and heel click when talking about the Welsh Natzi's his term there - beklieve how a man lives than his photo calls.

[Stephen]

Nick according to your definition the EU qualifies as a Neo-facist organisation

[iain forrest]

you should be prosecuted for claiming in print that the BNP is neo nazi. if you made a similar statement about jews or moslems or labor members or parliament i'm sure you would be

[Lin]

"I really am very surprised that I have to revisit this issue to explain the problems with this ad to some of the commentators up here, who really don't seem to understand the concept of free speech."

Surprised you may be but, as much as you may be upset by what has been said, they are exercising their right to free speech.

[Katie]

Nick Anstead
You are a bigot of the highest order sir.

Your complete post does not make sense at all and shows what hatred you have of a duly elected member of the GLA (By over 130,000 law abiding people of London i might add) i think sir you should look up the word undemocratic.

[Barry Holmes]

Jon H is correct Brown is very close to Mugabe
who refuses to acknowledge the countries rights, as does Brown no referendum.Go the BNP

[ian]

Protected by the British government's policy of 'multiculturalism', radical Islamic preachers have been allowed to spout anti-semitic, ant-democratic, homophobic, racist, mysogenistic bile from mosques. The BNP aren't homophobic or mysogenistic so are lefties in comparison. That's why the Guardian has published the ads. Simple.

[Marco]

"Imagine I wanted to come and give a three hour lecture on a very boring topic. I would be entitled to do it at Speakers Corner. You might (rightly) take offence if I tried to do it in your front garden. If you asked me to leave, would you have breached my freedom of speech?"

Now the point is: should I be or feel OBLIGED to ask you to leave? Even if you were paying to give your lecture in my front garden?

[james]

The BNP is a bona fide political party just like the Communists or N Labour, that has done so much to wreck our country. Why shouldn't they advertise? After all thousands of people have voted for them - who is DF to imply that these voters are wrong?
It is just this sort of PC dictatorship that encourages me to vote BNP to show the arrogant media types that we do in fact live in a free democracy, despite their attempts to undermine it

[Chris Barnett]

"I will offer my definition of a fascist party.

1. A radical racially-based ideology.
2. Committed to realising that ideology, firstly through violence, intimidation and generating fear at street level, and secondly, through a usurpation of the state.

I am comfortable that the BNP fulfils both criteria, in action and aspiration.

Posted by: Nick Anstead"

But that's all it is. YOUR DEFINITION of a fascist party, based on criteria that the BNP doesn't even meet in the first place! There is no racial idiology to the BNP.

We have democracy for a reason Nick. So that society can decide as a whole who represents us and decides policy. 130,000 people voted for Richard Barnbrook. If you had your way, you would make any elected BNP representative innefective by way of sabotage etc.

It seems to me, that you are happy to have peoples votes and views ignored with no recourse. That leads to violence by the weakest of people, but hey, that's what you want. The only way socialists, marxists and communists can ever keep a grip on power is through civil war.

New Labour wants a civil war so the EU can rule this country. We natioanlists have seen through it and you know it Nick.

[M]

This is democracy. If you disagree with the BNP, you have to argue your case against their policies.

Get over it.

[Don't say Brown]

What is the fuss about. So some people vote BNP. So what ?

Many Italians vote for Berlusconi.

Much better to ask WHY people vote for the BNP.

[Mike]

Sorry, I don't see the BNP as a Fascist or Nazi party. We already have one of those in power. The right to freedom of speech is being eroded, we live in a surveillance society and political correctness has gone mad. Ask yourself this, has the BNP been responsible for any terrorist acts or taken us into 2 illegal wars where countless thousands have died? This govt has. The British people ought to wake up and see who the real villains are. Don't believe what you read in the media about the BNP because they're all worried about people actually having a say in how their country is run as opposed to being led by the current "Common Purpose" led dictatorship.

[Andy Armitage]

The fact is he was elected by the electorate in an election. Get used to it. I don't hold with the BNP, either, but to complain, as you seem to be doing, that an ad is being legitimately paid for is to discriminate on the grounds of belief (you don't have to like the belief, but the guy has a right to hold it): it's OK if the bloke is Labour (especially Labour, I would think, if most woolly-minded liberal ninnies who object are anything to go by). Try doing something to prevent the perceived need for a BNP instead of complaining that a legit ad is being placed by a legit organisation for a legit person who wants a legit employee.

[Derek]

Nick Anstead offered a definition of fascism (below) but does it remind anyone else of New Labour, or the state of the country under New Labour?

Nick Anstead's offering:
1. A radical racially-based ideology.
2. Committed to realising that ideology, firstly through violence, intimidation and generating fear at street level, and secondly, through a usurpation of the state.

[steve l]

good i cant help thinking we need a balanced view from the right. we are not all namby-pamby liberals. some off us would like to see change in this country. Pity all BNP officials seem so ''old-school''.

[John F]

As an immigrant to this country, I hold the BNP and its policies in utter contempt.

However, it would appear that the Times (and its readership) hold the law of the land in contempt - the BNP are a legitimate political party, elected by the citizens. Like it or not, they are entitled to the same benefits of every other party.

Until (and unless) they are outlawed or banned, this must continue. It is the price of our free society.

[Esther]

What this debate needs is some input from an erudite, reasonable, well-informed neutral with a sweeping sense of historical perspective and firm grasp of what it means to be living in the present political climate. But anyone like that would take one look at these posts and say "What a bunch of crackpots and lunatics - what's the point in trying."

[Mark]

Why do you all care? Regardless of where our political, religious, sexual or ideological preferences may lay, we all get the short end of the stick sooner or later.

Freedom of speech?

Our advanced democratic process has proven that instead of being shot for speaking outline, we're marginalised and ignored (i'll admit thats much better). At the last general election what did your vote count for? A losing party? Or a winning one that rode us into the ground just as quickly as the men in blue, green or yellow could've done. Was it worth it?

The Collapse of Chaos by Ian Stewert and Jack Cohen presents a possible mathematical model for the demise of politics - i agree that with the need to secure votes from the opposite side parties move there rhetoric to the middle ground. The line between blue and red is (lets face it!) a little fuzzy of late. We all remember the near miss General Election right? The one where Labour stole all The Conservative ideas on Stamp Duty, Inheritence tax etc?

With no clear social goals or direction the populace looks for answers - enter any lefty or righty group with a wealthy benefactor and a loud voice. My point still remains. What does it matter? I for one, will continue to doodle all over my voting ballot, until a leader with real balls turns up.

[wrinkled weasel]

What a bizarre attitude. The BNP is a legitmate party. It is democractic, certainly as democratic as New Labour, who believe that manifesto commitments need not be honoured, and that they can field an unelected, incompetant nutter as Prime Minister.
Labour came BEHIND the BNP in the last by-election.

You really do want to kill any shade of opinion that does not square with your world view. We should be afraid of people like you.

[Tommy]

Taking upon the challenge of the previous post, I like to think of myself as pretty much neutral and Im also a historian so like to think I have some historical perspective.

I think its fair to say that most people do not like or support the BNP, for several reasons. I am certainly more right than left, but would never vote for the BNP, though as many people have mentioned they are a product of the nonsensical pc briage that has appeared over the last decade in our country. Seeing as they are an elected party who find support in thousands of voters of course we cannot then decide to ban them from advertising. Are they facist? Fundamentally no, but their extreme politics of course branches out to people who may be. The BNP should be allowed to advertise, and seeing as they are allowed to stand as a legitimate political party, they should be allowed the same rights as others

[Barry]

I am a BNP voter and I resent the implication I am supporting a 'Neo-Nazi' party. I am not. Mr Finkelstein, I think you ought to a lot more closely at the BNP. How can the BNP be 'neo-Nazi' if it has a Jewish councilor and Jewish members? Do you seriously think these people would have joined the party if it was?

The BNP only exists because of the traitorous actions of BOTH Labour and Conservative governments. Simply put, if they hadn't been so treasnous the BNP would have no electoral space in which to operate.

[Nick Anstead]

In turn:

Stephen - I fail to see the parallel between the BNP and EU (the EU is not grounded in racial ideology, it is certainly not radical, and I have yet to see it engage in fear generation or violence). There are plenty of reasons to be for or against the EU with complete justification, but I don't think it fulfils these criteria.

Lin - I'm not contesting anyone's right to freedom of speech. Indeed, inherent of any right to free speech is the right to be wrong. Similarly, there is a right to point out that someone is wrong and try and persuade them to your point of view. My expression of surprise was at the idea that people could so misunderstand the right to free speech and conflate it with ideas such as the ability to enter into a contract with a private entity (a newspaper) to advertise something. As yet no one has mounted a defence as to why that can be defended by reference to the idea of free speech.

Katie - thank you for calling me Sir. But I notice, while also referring to me as a bigot and claiming my post doesn't make sense, you don't actually point out any logical inconstancies within my argument or why what I say is "undemocratic". At no point do I suggest that BNP should be banned or that their freedom of speech should be curtailed. What I argue is that a private newspaper which fundamentally disagrees with the BNP shouldn't be accepting advertising seeking to hire their support staff. That doesn't impinge anyone's democratic rights in anyway I can see.

Marco - A good point, and a neat offshoot of my metaphor. The question I would ask is why would you invite / accept money from someone who is going to come to your garden and say something that you find particularly offensive (as I imagine people involved with the Guardian would regard the BNP). The key point is that the analogy clearly demarks the Guardian advertising board as a private space, and leads to the conclusion that the Guardian has a choice. And where there is choice, there is a responsibility to make a good choice (I would also add another point - as recent events with Facebook and the BNP have demonstrated, this might not just be a moral but also a business decision. It is all very well taking adverts from the BNP and making a few bob, but not if Vodafone threaten to leave them).

Chris Barnett - Actually Chris I wish it was my definition, but have to admit that it is derived from far wiser heads than mine - namely Professor Helen Margetts (Oxford University), Professor Peter John (Manchester University), David Rowland (University College London) and Professor Stuart Weir (University of Essex).

Their report is here:
http://snurl.com/2wtvg

John F - Show me a law that says a party is allowed to advertise jobs in the Guardian? I don't think there is any such law on the statute books.

Esther - I absolutely agree. These aren't easy questions, and I don't think anyone is pretending they are. But it is important to discuss.

[Jeff]

As a person of chinese descent, I shall be applying with my top notch secretarial, admin and research skills. The prize of compensation for racial discrimination from the BNP would be oh so sweet.

[CPomplun]

As an American citizen,I would like to say that the English idea of tax-payer funding of political parties is a good idea now because of the recession. It is getting to be a rich man's election over in the US.Some of the other candidates had some good ideas but because they were not able to raise enough money, they had to drop out of the Presidential race. Also the setting of spending limits on the race is also a good idea too;not to mention the time factor.

[CPomplun]

As an American citizen,I would like to say that the English idea of tax-payer funding of political parties is a good idea now because of the recession. It is getting to be a rich man's election over in the US.Some of the other candidates had some good ideas but because they were not able to raise enough money, they had to drop out of the Presidential race. Also the setting of spending limits on the race is also a good idea too;not to mention the time factor.

[richard p s]

you guys miss the whole point, no doubht the BNP were hoping the Guardian whould refuse the ad then they could get on their high horse and hammer the Guardian on the free speech issue. And get LOADS of free press.

The Guardian did the right thing putting the ad in their paper. and lets face it how many right wing nutters read the Guardian (apart from the labour front bench that is :D)

[Andrew]

I'll never understand (but I'm American) why any non-racist conservative center-right sympathizer who is rightly disgusted with the Tories and the totalitarian EU would consider voting BNP over a more than acceptable alternative in UKIP and the terrific Nigel Farage, but, that being said...can ANYONE explain clearly how a racialist or even soft-racist party like the BNP is more dangerous than the fully Marxist Greens who are every bit as, indeed, MORE totalitarian in nature than the BNP, yet are treated with respect? People who treat the BNP lightly are foolish; they're irresponsible and dangerous. People who think they're the same as the National Socialists are morons.

[haralambos]

I find nothing "neo" about a Nazi sympathiser - it's the same old same old. A neo Nazi for me is more of a "crypto" Nazi, i.e. a PC fundamentalist.

[Michael]

I will vote BNP, Do you think I should vote Labour, NO!
Conservative, NO! same LIARS as Labour.
Liberals ??????
Which leaves me either not voting at all or the BNP, Hang on, The Monster Raving Looney party might be the answer, Can they do worse than any of the others. Ha!

[Steve Moss, Clapham]

In the hustings Ken, Boris and Brian all declared in favour of an amnesty on illegal immigrants and of ‘positive action’ to promote minorities in the workplace.

One of the consequences of allocating resources and opportunities along multicultural lines is that it’s in the interest of indigenous people to form a block vote too, which is why I voted for Barnbrook.

I'd rather we didn’t have to vote according to identity, but then when I voted for Blair in 97, I didn’t realise he’d promote an open-border policy which would have such a profound affect on my life. London has changed enormously because of immigration. So have my life chances, and none of it was ever manifestoed.

[Roger]

Very snide article more suitable to the Daily Mirror than The Times.
Does the writer think he knows better than the electorate? It sounds so.

[jaime]

I would never support the BNP but at the same time i acknowledge that we live in a democracy and they have every right to advertise for posts as part of an elected party. I see no issues with this. i dont remember anyone giving the times permission to censor demoocracy?...

[Lickyalips]

People are seeing right through the 'neo-Nazi' tag which always seems to accompany any reference to the BNP. Results in 5 recent by-elections have put the BNP in front of NuLabour...(not reported by the mainstream media.)
We need look no further than our own mendacious and war-mongering government to see who the real Nazis are.
It does this newspaper no good to perpetuate the myth that the patriotic BNP are knuckle-dragging thugs.
I suggest readers here check out the BNP website and make up their own minds as to whether they are as described or, indeed, trying to save the country from the unelected EUrocrats and our own treasonous politicians - you may be surprised.

[Angharad]

Can you explain this, Mr Finkelstein? ->

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f99_1185836519

Thankyou.

[Nonty]

The far left BNP advertising in a far left paper? Cover blown.

[Phil]

The only reason the BNP are so vilified is that they stand in the way of our mainstream politicians' greedy ambitions.

The BNP have caused no deaths, no wars. But they are a headache to our ruling elite - a ruling elite who wish to see Britons silenced so they can have their cake and eat it.

The Left know their time is up, hence their amusing insults.

[Lizzie]

Is anyone else both impressed and disturbed by how fast the BNP, upon seeing that yet another article has implied that no decent person or publication would take its money, mobilizes its members to troll the accompanying message boards and thereby simulate a higher level of sympathy than truly exists? These comments are about 50/50 - if the country was truly so full of BNP supporters they would be in government already, so there is definitely something nefarious afoot (the other possibility is that the Times is moderating and trying to be balanced - which is admirable but misguided, as it legitimizes fringe opinions as mainstream).

I've known people to intern at political campaigns where such trolling is part of the job. Hotels do it on Tripadvisor ("truly, this place is Eden") and studios do it on Fandango ("don't believe the critics, this movie is genius"). It is the human version of software which clicks all day on Google links to positive articles about one's organization, to push them up the google rankings. In America they call it "astro-turfing", the practice of creating fake grassroots support.

I bet if you tracked the IP addresses of the pro-BNP comments they would go back to no more than two or three computers. If not, I bet a mass email has gone out from BNP HQ urging people to troll this board. Even if only 1% of the country supports the BNP and only 1% of that group both received and acted on the email, that's still 6,000 pro-BNP comments coming the Times' way, enough to completely distort the picture here.

Reassuring to see that while there probably are anti-BNP groups, they aren't so well-funded or organized that they're doing the same thing (as shown by the low % of anti-BNP comments relative to anti-BNP respondents in all opinion polls). This implies that most people aren't scared enough of the BNP to bother mobilizing against it.

[Draegor]

The rotten Lib/Lab/Con dictatorship offers only more destruction and degradation.The BNP are a ray of hope for the un-brainwashed downtrodden British.Mr finklestein would MUCH rather have a century of ZanuNuLieburrower in power, than a party committed to freedom from invasion and displacement.As an earlier poster said, oppression always fails in the end.

[sandra Fournier]

If we are the free country we claim to be then the BNP should receive the same exposure as every other party. The BBC should make note of that especially when choosing panelists for Question Time.

[Joseph Gibson]

BNP have every right as everyone else. And the BNP are the British people, that fight for British heritage, and all Britishness. Unfortunetly our government, both Labour and Conservatives do not act in the best interested of the "British" people. Unfortunetly there is just too many idotic British that believe everything the media and the government say! Unfortunetly I bet most of those people are the ones responsible for causing such divide in Britain. If any of you that do not agree with the BNP that have British blood running through their veins, think for a momment and look back at your ancestors that died, fought and given their lives for Britain just to have it all thrown away, to give you the rights you have today, which are far less than those who are not British.

[terence oakes]

love to have Nick griffin as my friend i like honest people .I would hate to have Tony Blair is wife Brown or Livingstone as my friends as they are as corrupt as you can get

[terence oakes]

god bless the bnp

[Wayland]

Are the BNP breaking the law? If they are then prosecute them, if not then banning them is not wise.

The BNP are actually looking better and better. However if they make the odd comment that offends gays then they lose the votes from those people and maybe their friends. However they may well gain support for the very same reason.

One year Terry Wogan was voted most popular TV personality. However in the same pole he was also voted mose Unpopular TV personality.

It's not nessesary to find a middle ground and apeal to everyone, you don't need to win 100%, just the largest minority of the vote.

[Mark]

I grew up in a Conservative Party family in Scotland. I moved to London in my early twenties and as a musician, in order to fit in, I had to hang around all the socialists, communists, libertarians who generally preached of anarchy but yet if it came wouldn't last ten seconds. I then grew older and saw the madness of the Left and socialism. I respected very much libertarians view of Utopia, but that would never happen in today's world. I also saw that the Conservative party is now the Unconservative Party and nothing but Blue Labour Party, with no strength of it's convictions. Worse of all I saw NO party who actually put the British People and British Culture first before any immigrants/asylum seeker or alien religion(Islam).
I live in London and have seen the government at war with the indigenous Britain's at War. I'm angry, who do I vote for that actually speaks common sense? Labour, Liberal, Tory - they're all liars and care nothing for anyone but themselves and then there is the BNP..........

How on earth can you de-legitimise a legitimate Party?
How can you want to see the destruction of a Political Party, when the majority of people vote for it?
What happens if the British People do vote for the BNP one day?
How would you react?
Would you turn into a fascist, a terrorist and start a bombing campaign?
Has it ever dawned on you that the BNP is not the problem but people like you who are in your words anti British?

I have never voted for the BNP, but then given a choice between the NULabConLib alliance who care not for the majority British population, seek to see Islamisation as well as continued uncontrolled immigration and enforced multiculturalism, not forgetting turning the white male into a 3rd class citizen in his own country or the BNP, I really wonder whom I should choose?

The simple answer is this; if you are a Muslim seeking to Islamise the UK, a woman seeking to oppress the white male, an immigrant or an asylum seeker intent on living in the UK like you would in your own country, or a socialist/communist, born in the UK, despise it and what your ancestors died for to give you the freedom you have and the chance of greatness, then vote for Labour, Liberal or Tory. If however you want to vote for a party that actually respects the Indigenous people more than immgrants/asylum seekers, won't allow the Islamisation of the UK, will continue to promote the Celtic/Anglo Saxon culture and traditions of the UK as well as remove the UK troops from illegal wars and wars not worth their lives, then really, the BNP is the only choice. I think I will be voting for the BNP next election and so will my partner, oh and guess what, she's black, british and sick to death of the way this country's been destroyed.

[Geo8rge]

If the advertiser is clear about their identity and the ad does not contain anything offensive to you other than the letters BNP, what do you care? BTW, did you see the Guardians new "BNP Soulmates" dating area? Check it out.

[Dectora]

Jon H. Who voted for Jim Callaghan? Who voted for Macmillan when Eden handed the premiership to him? Those who make dotty saloon bar comparisons with Mugabe have evidently never experienced starvation or a good vbeating up in their own homes.

[lee harrison]

Poor biased Journalism by the Times, BNP are a party and those people have a choice you are as bad as BNP if you disagree and say MY OPINION is RIGHT.. wrong your not we have a choice to vote. I guess its OK to spout racial religious hate in Mosques but not OK to have a few against that.. Why does every associate BNP as Nazis? that's like saying every Muslim is a terrorist my god THIS IS ENGLAND where have we all gone? let me tell you Iraq Afghanistan is where the REAL English people are who still fly the flag with pride Blakc or white.

[lee harrison]

lots of people using silly big words. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO VOTE if the party is legitimate we can do what we please only thing we cannot do is vote or own Prime minister in! oh yes Mr Brown!.Nazi this Nazi that i am currently in Iraq and will be voting BNP I've had enough of over educated idiots with no life skills running my country that the problems too much time learning hug gregarious words not enough time on the shop floor! like our politicians

[ted]

If you ban the BNP from advertising, or ban them as a party, then you're doing exactly what totalitarian regimes would do. And isn't that why people hate the BNP, because it reminds us of a certain totalitarian party from Germany? Or from Russia under Stalin? People have rights to think certain things, and you have a right ot disagree, but if you take away the right to disagree then you're just as bad as them. Yes you're doing it under the guise of moral superiority, but isn' that how dictatorship starts-"I know better than you!" They should be allowed to advertise for the post-disallowing them that right would be a step on a dangerous path.

[Esther]

You're probably correct Lizzie - I was wondering why so many BNP apologists were "Times" readers.........

[Daphne Kenward]

What is the difference between the B.N.P & the NEOCONS with BUSH heading it? They claim DEMOCRACY, when its infact HYPROCRISY. kILLING jews IS NO DIFFERENT from killing MUSLIM. NEO NAZIS are CRIMINALS, both their policies is based on hatred. HATRED does not run an economy & any COUNTRY that runs its policies based on HATRED will always collapse. because it takes all races to run a world and an economy. Which explains why AMERICA is in the mess it's in. If TAX payers are payng to promote hatred the money may soon dry up as people lose their jobs. NEW LABOUR has been the ones promoting these outragious ideas.

[Daphne Kenward]

BNP was the main sponcers of KNIFE CRIMES, they have been cought on CAMERA doing KNIFE CRIMES,SOME WERE FOUND TO BE IN THE POLICE FORCE, these were WHITE GANGS of BNP supporters, this was back in the 1980 - 1995. Now BNP is on the RISE again and CRIMES is going up again. BE careful what you wish for it may happen.

[Euan]

So that's a good few hundred words of free advertising for the BNP over a GLA advert that would otherwise have gone unnoticed and unmentioned. Congratulations Mr Anstead and Mr Finkelstein, not only have you struck a blow for those of us who hold the values of liberty and equality dear, you've also stuck it to those Guardian recruitment section bods. Keep fighting the good fight.

[Fred]

I'm sick of the newspapers drilling it into people that the BNP are facist neonazis.
They are nothing of the sort and if people simply look past the newspapers and did some real research for themselves they'd find out that the BNP are a perfectly fair democratic party that has far too much unfair criticism which could solve the problems with the country today.

[Mark]

"Congratulations Mr Anstead and Mr Finkelstein, not only have you struck a blow for those of us who hold the values of liberty and equality dear, you've also stuck it to those Guardian recruitment section bods. Keep fighting the good fight.

Posted by: Euan | 14 Jul 2008 13:25:49"

Euan,

I would like you to sit back and read what you've written. Can you please explain equality to me as this word is really beyond me quite frankly.
First off, when you state equailty, I presume that you mean for everyone to be equal regardless of sex, or race - yes?
So, if that is your understanding and don't worry, you are not alone, there are many like you who believe the same, how would you fair in a boxing mach against Lennox Lewis, or a tennis match against Nadal? How would you fair against Kasparov in a game of chess? How would you do against Lynford Christie in a 100 metres race? Now I'm talking about sports above but I could easily have asked you about your skills in translation, language speaking, science, information technology and the point I'm making is that the majority of people in society are 'unequal' because of genetic makeup.
We are all 'unequal' that is what is so brilliant about life is that WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT. Don't you remember Life of Brian?
I however agree that if we do the same job and work the same hourse then 'pay' should be equal but that really is where the line shold be drawn in equality. If a man or a woman have a business, it is up to them to employ whomever they choose to employ. To be told otherwise by a government is nothing more than destruction of liberty you seem to hold dear.
You like to demonise the BNP, a party I have never supported, yet from what I read on their manifesto, their party speaks out for the majority of the UK's inhabitants. They were against the Iraq and Afghan War oddly enough like the liberals but not Labour and Conservative. They are the only ones speaking up for the British people's liberties and oddly enough not the minorities in the UK that Labour/liberal and Conservative are, all 8% of our population or so. They are the only people who would protect the British people by bringing back the death penalty as well as not curtail to the every wants and needs of America. They are also, believe it or not, not about to kick all non whites out of the UK but instead allow them to live in the UK but to adopt British values.
The thing that really amazes me when I speak to people who so demonise the BNP is that when they talk of the wrongs in our society, the only party that is actually prepared to sort them out and give the control back to the people again as well as teachers and parents are the BNP and not the Labour/Liberal/Conservative alliance they all vote for.
People rip apart a party that has never been given the chance of being in office and yet they vote in Labour in '97 after the disastrous Labour government of the 70's and vote them in twice even though they were involved in bucket loads of sleaze and two illegal wars, not forgetting the destruction of our Police and Law and Order as well as our education system and younger generations. Worse still people are now considering voting for the UN-Conservative party who at the time of Thatcher, destroyed the heavy industry and manufacturing of the UK, ripped apart the only voice for the people, the Unions, privatised gas, electric, the Post Office, the railways, public transport and water and look at the mess we're in now with that? Then again there was also the creation of the yuppy, where the rich got richer and the poor poorer. They created the selling off of council houses meaning even more poverty for the people as they are unable to buy social affordable housing as well as keep wages low and prices on the up constantly. And last but not least, although I could go on and on, they also sold off British Companies to the highest bidders abroad. They destroyed the UK's abilty if self sufficiency all for greed.
You talk about Liberty and Equality when there will never be equality as it's a virtual impossibility, that is unless you are happy to see the creation of an EUSR where communism will come back into the play again, with more fascism amongst EU states controlling the UK.
And last but not least you talk of Liberty when the people in Government couldn't care one hoot.

I will finsh of by saying I am seriously considering voting for the BNP next Election, because as a British Male, no other party is speaking for me and something needs to be done or else kiss goodbye to the UK and emergence of a terrible state, very possibly under control of Islam or Brussells.

[paul connolly]

The Lib/Lab/Con fith columnists and the Islamic invasion are the biggest threats to this country, no wonder people are voting for the BNP. It's this countrys last hope, why would you want to ban it?
Are you with the traitors or the patriots?

[Eileen Shaw]

I am a woman seeking to oppress a white male. Any takers?

[Elisabeth H]

I understand that the BNP supports the so-called Countryside Alliance but it is clearly at odds with Liberty - what curious bedfellows they all are!

[Robert]

Wanted: BNP fan with typing skills

There's only a handful who can read, let alone type.

[Robert]

Wanted: BNP fan with typing skills

There's only a handful who can read, let alone type.

[Derrick]

Such a terrible thing this democracy isn't it! The fact of the matter is though that you either have democracy or you have what the perfidious Mr. Finkelstien would rather you had instead.

[Mike Murray]

The BNP not a neo-Nazi organisation?

Saying so will bring a libel action?

Good - the BNP is a neo-nazi organisation, led by crypto-nazis like Nick Griffin, founded by overt Nazis like John Tyndall. It's nazi roots stretch back to Mosley's BUF who supported the Nazis anti-semitic policies, just like the leadership of the BNP today. It's organisation has evolved from the overtly racist and Nazi National Front which Tyndall also led and of which Griffin was a member, I believe.

Today's nazis would commit mass murder if they could - black people, Muslims, Jews, homosexuals, socialists, trade unionists - all face a complete loss of democratic rights, even death, from such Nazis if they were to gain power.

Go ahead you goons, sue me.

[Dana]

Someone said that the B haven’t caused any deaths or wars as yet, that is probably because they haven’t had the chance (i.e.) been in power. Who knows, there is time yet, maybe they will just do an ethnic cleansing and get it over with.

It is really funny how us Brits act as though immigrants only come to our shores while we never immigrate. We go to places such as the Caribbean, Australia and Dubai to name but a few but are then annoyed when outsiders come to live here. We try to categorize them and put all sorts of restrictions on them but we expect different treatment when we go abroad. I have lived in Barbados for a number of years and on no job application have I been asked to categorize my origin in order to get a fair chance at selection. They do ask what nationality you are e.g. British, Polish etc. but they wouldn’t ask you if you are White British, Black British etc as ethnicity has no bearing. All they want to know about are your qualifications and if you have the right to work in the country. Why do we feel the need put people in a box? It would be interesting to see how fair the BNP’s selection process would be in light of their views.

I however do agree that religion should be a choice and not a forced issue especially where islam is concerned and its nature.It is not like we can just nip over to Iraq and build a church. If you came here for a better life because you weren't getting it in your native country and then preach hate, you should be sent back to wallow in your own misery.

[Phil Bailey]

I don't know about fascists but communists regards the democratic process as a waste of time. So if you ban the BNP logically you have to ban them as well. Then do you move onto anyone else who disagrees with you?

[Euan]

Mark,

"Can you please explain equality to me as this word is really beyond me quite frankly."

Which explains rather succinctly why you are (or considering being) a BNP supporter.

[helen]

Todate, the Bnp seem uncorrupted, able to ask difficult questions, act politely; and their web site is a fount of uptodate accurate news. Please remember that according to a Jospeh Rowntree report 2001 ('Black and minority ethnic voluntary and community organisations: Their role and future development in England and Wales') there are some 5,500 black and other ethnic minority organisations in England and Wales, pesumably by definition focusing only on black and other minority ethnic concerns. The majority of these organisations will be funded to a greater or lesser degree by the taxpayer. Over half of them according to the report had an income at that time of between £50,000 and £250,000, and most owned their own premises, with some black housing associations having an income of over £500,000. Many of these organisations have the sympathetic ear of local and national government. There are many events to promote black history, black music and so on.

[Arthur Lincoln]

Euan....
"Can you please explain equality to me as this word is really beyond me quite frankly."
I would not like to stand in for 'Mark' as I am certain he has the capacity to argue his own case, however, I think he would like you to explain your interpretation of the word 'Equality'. I would be interested to know too!

[zogran]

Yet again Daniel Finkelstein demonstrates his lack of understanding of the basic processes of democracy. The Greater London Authority providing employment for a researcher is a consequence of having a public vote. This is good news and an indicator of a strong, open political system. That Daniel (or anyone else) shows support a particular point of view is irrelevant. Daniel, please try to write something insightful and stop shouting at the wind.

[Ben Moss]

You wish to subvert democracy because it doesn't fit in with your idea of what is ethical?

[Phil]

Millions of ordinary Brits support the BNP, yet will not become overtly active or publicly vocal because of the fear induced in them by a government which is similar in many ways to Russia's old Communist dictatorship.

I hope that answers the ridiculous argument put forth by Lizzie (on 13th July) in her first paragraph.

[Josh]

"Todate, the Bnp seem uncorrupted, able to ask difficult questions, act politely; and their web site is a fount of uptodate accurate news."

Flap, flap, if I wave my arms hard enough I can FLY! Look at me everybody, I'm flying!!!!! Wheeeeee!

Honestly, my mind would boggle if it hadn't already dissolved in drivel and dripped out of my ears.

[Mark]

"Can you please explain equality to me as this word is really beyond me quite frankly."

Which explains rather succinctly why you are (or considering being) a BNP supporter.

Posted by: Euan | 15 Jul 2008 14:58:05

Euan, thank you for your reply.

1. I strongly suggest you read the BNP Manifesto instead of assuming to what you believe, thanks to left wing propaganda, what the BNP really are about when it comes to the UK.

2. You still miss the point I made, even though I explained it thoroughly in my last post that NO ONE IS EQUAL regardless of sex and race. This is not down to prejudice, for the simple reason that we live in a society where minorities have more rights than the majority as well as because of natural talent and flair.
Equality as you like to put it, is nothing more than socialist/communist ideology where everyone is the same for controling reasons.

My statement I made to you about equality was not because I DO NOT UNDERSTAND the word but because I don't understand your use of the word when trying to use it to describe society. If we continue going down the road to your world of equality, then we will end up like a third world because if we are all equal in your society, then that would mean the chain would have to be as strong as it's weakest link. Therefore in science, we would acheive nothing as if we did we would be descriminating against those who are not good at science. In your terms of equality, we would have to lower standards so that everyone can be 'Equal'.

[Josh]

Mark> Are you deliberately conflating equality-of-treatment with everyone-is-the-same, or are you just too thick to see the difference?

Equality-of-treatment means not treating anybody differently from the norm for reasons that are unrelated to the issue at hand - only a moron could think that means treating everyone the same the whole time. This explains why BNP supporters generally believe it to be so; on the whole they're foolish dupes rather than racist nutjobs. The racism is more towards the top of their fetid heap.

[jui]

What an immensely hypocritical news paper this has turned into, much like the government I suppose.

[John]

Interesting that The Times wants to attack the only party in the UK that wants to put the British first for a change!

[Henry]

I think virtually everyone in this forum has missed the point of Finkelstein's item, except perhaps for Nick Anstead. It's blindingly obvious that the point of the article was to highlight the hypocrisy of a left-leaning liberal paper accepting an advertising fee from a far right organisation. As Nick said, this has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with free speech. Who would dare to condemn the Guardian for rejecting a fee in return for placing a job advert from a political party diametrically opposed to its own views? All it does is show poor judgement on their behalf and a disregard for their own message. It's also my view that there are increasingly many unsavoury types who are now starting to speak up, using understandable frustrations with political correctness as a justification for voicing their own prejudice and intolerance.

[David]

I never knew it was racist to want to protect one's culture and heritage from extinction. I guess it's only racist if you are European.