The most heroic moment in Britain's history

Drumroll please. After more than 3,500 of your votes, Comment Central can annouce the most heroic moment in British history.

Fulfilling Churchill's prophecy, the Battle of Britain stormed in to first place with 55 per cent. Our decision go to war in 1939 came second with 20.8 per cent. 

Next came the Armada (8.9 per cent), the Slave Trade Act (5.9 per cent), the Napoleonic Wars (5.4 per cent) and Oliver Cromwell (3.3 per cent). Despite some spirited commentator defence, King Alfred's Danish wars limped in last at just 2.8 per cent.

Comments

[John]

failing to feed the Irish in the 19th century was also very brave.

[Peter]

As a feat of arms, the Battle of Britian ranks with Agincourt and Crecy. Above the desk at which I write this is a print of Barrie A.F. Clark's famous painting of a Spitfire punching through a hole in the clouds. I gaze at that picture daily and marvel at the men whose deeds it memorializes. They were truly Lions.

[donquijoterocket]

Speaking from a detached yanks point of view, I was wondering why the evacuation from Dunkirk was not on the list for consideration. The armed forces are expected to perform such acts as those of the spit and hurricane pilots but for civilians to place themselves so selflessly, and magnificently in harms way speaks well for the spirit and courage of the nation as a whole.

[Noel Falconer]

Get your illustration right! No Spitfire flew with a four-bladed prop in the Battle. And is that a 1944 Tempest in the background?

[John D]

Finest hour to be sure, but oh what a cost was paid. The British people today are a shadow of their 1939 ancestors. You have become a little people, a poodle for the American Republic, and just another euro-trash nation.

To understand how far Britain has fallen, take my corner of the former sun never sets empire. Growing up in post war Canada, many of us still saw ourselves as "British North America", we even flew the Union Jack as "our flag".

Today, the British Royal family routinely jets off to the United States for vacations, ignoring Canada entirely, the British intellectual class openly express disdain at members of the Commonwealth such as Canada and New Zealand. Britain, once a trusted voice of reason on the international stage, has become a "yes, President" follower.

Far from being a great power, today Britain appears more as a chubby school girl, infatuated with the Quarterback of the Football team.

Last night I heard an Oxford professor on TV call Canada, a "meaningless country and America's 'Little Sister'".

Well, I've got news for you. We may be a likable people, but we know when we are are not liked. And Britain most certainly is at the top of the global list of countries with an irrational, child like jealous hatred for us and other successful former "colonies".

In another 20 years our 40+ Million population will exceed your GDP, we'll be a republic, and the union jack will exist only in our memories. Enjoy your finest hour, hell we even had to help you with that, but of course, none of you remember.

[Sean (In the States)]

The Battle of Britain certainly was a great moment in history and an impressive one at that!
Sadly, that type of grit and determination are hard to come by these days.

[Warren Woodrow]

I whole heartily agree with Britain's finest hour. I'm in the eightth decade of life, and although an American, I can hear Churchhill's great speech(es)even now. In the 1950's I served at an RAF base and a Royal Navy base with my British counterparts. Again I served with them in the 1960's on NATO staffs and in the Middle East. A finer group of people I have never known. It breaks my heart to see that Britian no longer shows her great spirit and pride that once served as an inspiration to all mankind, friend and foe alike. Rule Britannia! WW

[CT Barbarian]

The more I learned about the Battle of Britain the closer the outcome became. I finally stopped reading about it fearing that if I kept it up Britain would have lost.

[John W Meadows]

Not to in any way minimize the heroism of the Royal Air Force I still think my vote for the decision to take on Germany was the more correct.
After the years of political grovelling left Britain so unprepared who in their right mind could see how Britain could possibly prevail.
That was true courage,not only to face up to the immense evil of National Socialism but also to face down the snivellers in your own country.

[Faisal]

John D.......oh dear that "oxford professor" certainly hit a nerve, didn't he?

[Dave]

It is hard to disagree with the final vote, but I must ask where a few other important events are.

The Signing of the Magna Carta?

Trafalgar?

The Miracle at Dunkirk?

The Sinking of the Bismark?

Even with these events included the final analysis will probably leave the Battle of Britain at the very top.

"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few."

[Stewart B]

As an American, I too take offense at the comment to which John D refers. It is wrong to call Canada our "Little Sister." A more appropriate label would be "Crazy 2nd Cousin Nobody Mentions."

[Mike Daly]

Noel Falconer should not write off all British people as not recognising Canada as friends. Canadians fought in both Word Wars and alongside the UK troops in Afghanistan today. I loved my time in Vancouver and Canadians seem to combine the many virtues of Americans together with those of Europeans plus unique ones of their own.
So you are a part of our "Finest Hour" and many more besides

[Michael Quintero, Texas]

Considering the "Yank's" comment above I as a Yank (vetern) too believe him to be correct, Dunkirk just might be your finest moment. He then speaks of the "spirit and courage of the nation as a whole." Yes indeed! And it seems that many of we "Yanks" no longer have that spirit. But, by God, we did it together, didn't we?

[Tim Carpenter LPUK]

To JohnD (Canada), almost everyone I know has a good word for Canada, Australia, NZ and the rest of the Anglosphere, and I count its citizens as some of my dearest friends.

Please ignore the self-loathing "intellectuals" who all want us slaves of some drab, socialist state. That Oxford Fifth Columnist most likely hates the UK too!

[Austin Tassletine]

John D:

You have a good point. The more intellectual amongst us know of the efforts the US and Canadians made (for example within the Battle of Britain and Dieppe and the Bomber Assault on Germany). You are right we are in your debt. Regrettably, there has been a concerted effort to destroy the intellectual pedigree (and nationality) of this country, who would recognise this, starting with its attitude towards the commonwealth (there is more of a slush fund for politicians in the EEC after all) through contempt of industry and trade between the ex colonies to the current immigration policies (that favour apologist Local Authority 3rd class university graduates who spy on their fellow employees and devise 'equality policies' that only go one way)...

Sorry John. the intellectual classes here let you down and have probably lost the chance now of taking control back.

[Charles Marasco]

As a proud American of English,Irish and Scottish decent I too have always admired the courage,bravery and determination of your pilots during the air battles over Britain as well as the guts and determination of the civilians in rescuing the soldiers from Dunkirk. Both Great Britain and the US have both lost most of the "greatest generation ever" to old age but we shall never forget the deeds they accomplished doing so without fanfare.

[Wade Hampton]

Oh Winston, where are you now ? Your country needs you !

[jon]

To Noel
Near where I live, here in the New forest,is a place where Canadian servicemen, and women? went to look at the view of the trees to remind them of home . also in the graveyard of Boldre church are many headstones of very young Canadian and other ex colonial heroes.
I was not born until after the war but around here canada is remembered for all the right reasons.
I believe this countries greatness is certainly behind us but at least allied with you lot we did the right thing at the right time for the right reason, unlike some of the things weve done since .

[John Ryan]

indeed this was possibility the finest and most significant battle won in WW2.
The courage and character of the british and their allies should be admired for years to come.

the inclusion of Cromwell in the list is an abomination for the Ireland of course ,remembering the efficiency of his ethnic cleansing exploits there.

[A.O. Goriainoff]

John D. get a grip. If the British perceive Canada as insignificant a America's little sister, it is Canada's fault. And another thing, when was the UK ever "a trusted voice of reason on the international stage"? exactly? Trusted by whom? Reason in regards to what? Get real, this country is as lost as ever, Canada or no Canada. Perhaps that is its charm. Remind me again what's Canada's?

[Ron Durham]

Remember the plight that King Harold had to endure, in 1066. The Danes were invading NE England. He assembled an army, marched hundreds of miles north and routed the Danes at Stamford Bridge. Immediately, news of the Norman invasion in SE England, caused his exhausted army to retrace their steps and confront them. An heroic pair of battles! No wonder he finally succumbed.

[Gordon (not Brown)]

No, Britain is a shadow of its former self since the nation fell into the thrall of its Liberal Elite. Breaking our Commonwealth ties in favour of sucking-up to Europe when most Brits in my view, prefer to look out to the open sea: Across the North Atlantic to Canada or the United States, or south to Australasia.
Despite the best efforts of our crowd of Euro enthusiasts our press and broadcast media are full of stuff pouring out from the English-speaking world - but hardly anything from out of Europe. The significance of this is of course ignored by our Liberal establishment as we are hog-tied by our betters by being refused the right to express our opinions regarding our unenthusiastic membership of the European Union.
I live in hope that One day there will be a resurgence of "Britishness". That once again we can acquaint ourselves with our remarkable and courageous heritage.

[Andrew Milner]

You can't live on past glories or most of your life is an anticlimax. Only 68 years since 1940 and Britain is fast fading away. Nevil Shute emigrated to Australia just after the War in 1950, essentially saying that the risk takers would leave while the risk adverse would remain. You can see the results to day as UK slides into oblivion.

[Feliks Kwiatkowski]

I am pleased with the result, and it also pleases me to comment that 130 Polish pilots were an essential ingredient of this moment.

[Matt C]

John D, That comment made from a 'meaningless country and America's 'Little Sister'? What has Canada done in the past 100 years? You do keep yourself to yourself but every canadian who I've ever met seems to be a friendly person... yes the queen don't visit... but she's some daft old lady... why'd you want her to visit? your not ours anymore! get your own queen if you like them so much...

My parents may have sold our country out to foriegners but be assured it wont be Canada laughing over us... we didn't have the largest empire the worlds ever seen for no reason. English folk once had power and we still do...

The Battle of Britan was our finest hour... before the US or anyone else really helped us against the Nazi's and our last real stand and halt to the germans efforts.

Noel Falconer, I'm sure there were 4 proped spitfires in use... everything that was flyable was in the air... and I doubt the authour of this piece is going to lose any sleep over if she had the right picture... at least it isn't a Nazi or american one and is a british plane of the type that would have been used...

But where is the defence of the Falklands? When we sold our country out to the EU? Assisting the Yankies in Iraq n Afgan? Selling ourselves out to the EU... again? hrmmm... maybe current history isn't something we can be too proud about...

[Tony Cox]

Noel Falconer is correct. That's a Spifire Mk.9. There's something else that stands out a mile in the photo. The fuselage roundel, as shown, was from 1942 onwards. Consisting of a larger, dull red bull's eye disk in the center with a thinner looking orange border. That Spit Mk-9 also had invasion stripes on the underside of its fuselage. I too have sharp eyes!

[robert]

Please, let us not forget the role of the Polish pilots in the BofB - the margin often makes a crucial difference, particularly as they had lost everything - and did not recover the major part of it for a generation.

[GARTH STRONG]

THE ENEMIES WITHIN

The British Lion is asleep...and has been for too many years.

Britain is now experiencing a nightmare of mediocracy, treason, corruption and perverted so-called socialism that threatens to destroy and emasculate the values, heritage, culture and ideals of a once-great nation. The Nation is facing emasculation by cultural and ethnic dilution, and by perverted governmental policies that effectively force far too many of its most indutrious, talented, productive, creative and intelligent minds to abandon Great Britain in favour of more rational, if not greener countries, where the fruits of their labours will not be stolen and squandered by punitive
and irrational taxation.

Britain has, throughout its long history, defeated its external enemies with astounding and glorious regularity. However, how will today's Britain defeat its most dangerous, venemous and effective enemies...the enemies within?

[TONY]

REPLY TO JOHN D FROM CANADA,

SOME REMEMBER THE CANADIANS AT DIEPPE, THEIR SELFLESS CONTRIBUTION IN THE NORMANDY CAMPAIGNS. THEIR ACTIONS IN THE SCHELDT ESTUARY. DO NOT THINK THESE MODERN DAY U.S. TOADIES REPRESENT THE BRITISH. AN AMERICAN ARMY IS NOT WORTH AN ANZAC OR CANADIAN DIVISION. YOUR ANGER IS SHARED BY THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN THE BRITISH GOVERMENTS FAIL THEM.

[Jedsil]

As an American, I believe the Battle of Britain was unquestionably Britain's finest hour. I would also like to remind British readers that Winston Churchill, was half American, so we wish to take credit for Winston's "Yankee stubborness" in refusing to yield to Hitler.

[Cahya]

Good blog.

[Greg]

let's not forget sending in an armored car to a football pitch after the easter uprising to machine gun the footballers and crowd. That really took a stiff upper lip, i'm sure.

[will]

to john i assume from canada.

your exactly right, it is a traversty how we have more relationships with the likes of europe than we do with the countries of the commonwealth. hopefully when DC gets into power he will re asses our global relationships. Dont get me wrong tho the US still has to be our principal alley, but australia, canada NZ etc have to be on a par, we should have free trade and free travel with those countries as a matter of course.
With what looks like its coming from russia we will need the Great anglo saxon countries of the world to come together to defend the freedoms we invented and fought so hard to keep.

ww2 in general the battle of britain and the napoleonic wars are definately the top3 in our history. Sad thing is in the future without ripping up the remnants of the socialist culture that still hold us back and without our family of nations i cannot see us having another finest hour. not when a sailor gets kidnapped by iran and cries when he gets called mr bean.

come on britain lets earn the right to be called great.

[J F Kohler]

The battle of Britain may well be the most heroic moment in British history, but it is certainly the most important event of WW2. Had Britain folded, Hitler would have won. No winning combination could have been put together to overcome Nazi domination of the continent. We Americans would have stayed snug and secure behind our east coast until Hitler had his New York Rockets and possibly even nuclear weapons. And the reason Hitler never got them is due is that Britain didn't quit, but fought on heroically, brilliantly and alone.

[John Finucane]

He was the youngest Wing Commander in Fighter Command of the Royal Air Force And one of the highest scoring Allied pilots of the Second World War – all achieved in a space of two years. He was killed in action just months short of his 22nd. Birthday.

It is now nearly sixty years since the end of that war and most people in Ireland alive today have little knowledge or interest in the events of that time . We in Ireland were neutral and therefore no need to fight. But for all that over 100,000 southern Irishmen and men and women fought for the Allied cause. Much has been written about their bravery and courage but this article concentrates on a person who is practically unknown in his native land. His name: Brendan Finucane, or Paddy, as the British and Australian public knew him.

He was born in Rathmines on Oct.16 1920 to Andy and Florence Finucane, His father fought on de Valera’s side in the 1916 Rising and his mother was English born. Brendan was the eldest of five children , Raymond, Kevin, Monica and Clare, all of whom are alive and living in Britain. Raymond who followed Brendan into the R.A.F. also flew Spitfires and Kevin served in the British Army.

Baldonnel was where it all started when their father arranged for Brendan and Raymond to have a short flight in 1932. Both lads had the flying bug from reading about the real life exploits of Albert Ball and Mick Mannock and other stories of World War 1 air aces.

The family moved around quite a bit and Brendan was educated initially at Synge St. C.B.S. and finished his education at O’Connell Schools. Even at that early age Brendan’s skills of organisation and determination were beginning to show through. He excelled at rugby, Gaelic football, boxing and rowing and by all accounts seemed to enjoy the challenge. The year was 1936 and many changes were in store for the Finucane family. Brendan finished his education with a reasonable schools certificate and took an accounts job with a firm in Sandymount, where the family had moved.

In late 1936 the family left Ireland to move to Richmond near London where Brendan’s father had been offered a new position as a company director. Brendan and the family were no strangers to England having spent their summer holidays with relatives near Southampton. And accounts job held no great interest for young Brendan and with parental blessing he applied for and received a short service commission with the R.A.F.

He began his flying training in the summer of 1938 and through great determination and will power eventually earned his wings; his rating was average. After several postings he applied for and was accepted for a training course on Spitfires in June 1940. the next month he was posted to 65 Squadron at Hornchurch and Pilot Officer Brendan Finucane 41276 was about to enter action in the most crucial part of Britain’s survival.

His first operational mission in late July `1940 was not a great success as his aircraft developed a leak and he had to crash land. On the 12th. Of August he began his distinguished career by shooting down an Me 109 with bursts from his 8 Browning .303 machine gun to as close at 50 yards. Finucane had listened well to his gunnery instructor and got as near as possible to ensure maximum damage to the enemy aircraft,

In early September 1940 he was promoted to Flying officer and was praised highly in a report which said that he had great leadership ability and was a quick and adept learner. The squadron moved to Scotland for rest purposes before returning to Tangmere in late November where the weather put paid to any real flying until the New Year. He started 1941 by shooting a Me 110 twin , engined heavily armed fighter and doggedly attacked up to four times to ensure a hit. By April he had shot down five enemy aircraft officially making him an ace. The Squadron now moved to Lincolnshire to carry out fighter sweeps over France. Promoted again to Flight Lieutenant he was awarded the D.F.C. and his log book endorsed exceptional by the Squadron Commander. The next move of his career was to bring him fame and acclaim worldwide.

Brendan was now with 452 Squadron Royal Australian Air Force as a flight commander sharing the same airfield at Kirton-in-Lindsay with 65 Squadron. The Australians were a different type of pilot and totally unlike the men he had served with up to now. He knew that he has to make his name and train these fresh pilots to the standard that would ensure their survival in the coming battles. Toughness and fairness in equal measure and making sure that the ground crews who were the backbone of the service were looked after, became his trademark.

In July 1941 452 Squadron began its first fighter mission over France along with other squadrons in No. 11 Fighter Group. The idea was to take the fight to the enemy and to keep Luftwaffe forces in France fully occupied. Large numbers of fighters escorted medium bombers in the hope of enticing the Germans into situations where they were heavily outnumbered by the R.A.F. aircraft. In reality the Germans fought when it suited them and only when the odds were in their favour.

Having been equipped with the new cannon-armed MK VB Spitfire the Squadron moved to Kenley to join 602 (Glasgow) and 485 (New Zealand) Squadrons to make a new fighter wing. From July to September 1941 Finucane destroyed or partly damaged 14 enemy aircraft and for this, and the fighting spirit he instilled in his squadron, he was awarded two bars to his D.F.C. The Press by this stage had not failed to realise the propaganda value of an Irish ace flying with the shamrock painted under his cockpit.

In October 1941 Brendan was awarded the D.S.O. an award only second to the Victoria Cross. In the citation it mentioned his brilliant leadership and example. By this stage his score had risen to 24 enemy aircraft and the Press and media attention had become global with articles about his exploits in Australian and American newspapers. Finucane himself did not relish all this attention and was a very modest and unassuming young man. One of his ground crew had, unknown to him, painted swastikas on his aircraft denoting his number of victories but Brendan was very quick to have them removed.

There is a very evocative photograph in Doug Stoke’s fine book Paddy Finucane Fighter Ace, of Brendan, accompanied by his brother Raymond and his mother, Florence leaving Buckingham Palace after receiving his D.S.O. A non-flying accident prevented any more combat duties until Jan. 1942 when he was promoted to Squadron Leader in charge of 602 Squadron (Glasgow) based at Redhill which was part of the Kenley wing. The Station Commander was another noted Irishman, Group Captain Victor Beamish, and they got on very well together. Sadly Beamish was lost in action in March 1942 at the age of 38.

In February 1942 Finucane was wounded in the leg after a fierce encounter with a new German fighter which had just entered service. The was the Focke-Wulf 190, an aircraft that was to give the Fighter Command and the Spitfire Mk Vs a lot of trouble until the later models arrived. An engagement of a totally different sort however was announced in April when Jean Woolford, a girl Brendan had known for several years, agreed to marry him. They were a very close and loving couple according to those who knew them.

However the war was still to be fought and the strain of taking it to the enemy was taking its toll on the R.A.F. In a very short space of time they had lost some very experienced wing commanders such as Bader, Stanford-Tuck, Beamish with very little to show for it. Combat figures issued after the war showed that the losses suffered by Fighter Command were on the order of 4: 1. Books written after the war by many famous fighter pilots all agreed on their hatred of these missions.

In May 1942 Brendan’s score had risen to 32 which equalled Wing Commander ‘Sailor’ Malan who was now non-operational. The strain of these combat hours was beginning to tell as can be seen in photographs of Brendan in the summer of ’42. Along with most pilots at that time he did not take small arms ground fire very seriously, as he told a visiting army captain. In Brendan’s case this proved to be ironic. He was promoted to Wing Commander (the R.A.F equivalent of the Army’s Lt.Colonel) at Hornchurch on June 21st. – an amazing achievement at the age of 21. He continued to lead his three squadrons on daily raids over France and he admitted to family members that he was very tired.

With his wingman, Canadian Al Aikman, Brendan flew on July 15 , 1942 to strafe and shoot-up targets in France. His aircraft’s underwing radiator was hit by a burst of machine gun fire which caused it to leak coolant and he climbed for height to get home across the Channel. Ten miles out from the French coast he decided to ditch as the engine was overheating. He made a perfect landing on the sea. It is now thought that his head went forward and the gunsight knocked him unconscious. The aircraft sank instantly taking Brendan with it. His aircraft was never found.
__________________

[Robert (UK)]

Quite rightly this appears as Britain's finest hour. One of the greatest military achievements by any country at any time throughout history - they deserve our praise.

However, people seem to forget that this country fights today in far of lands with a lot of the allies we fought with in the second world war including Canada (a great friend) and the USA. These soldiers display the same courage and conviction in fighting - Spitfire pilots could always see their enemy - not something our brave soldiers have the luxury of now.

Britain's great military history continues and the spirit of the pilots leads them.

[DJ]

A message to all Canadians -- here's a Brit who loves your country and people. And I'm not alone, so don't judge us by a fool TV professor.

Re the pic -- yes, this is a Spitfire from later on in WW2.

Come on Times, replace it with one of the correct vintage!

[George Brown]

Mmmmm ..... Everyone has forgotten the Merchant Seamen who brought the fuel, food, munitions, equipment etc. to sustain all the battles. Civilians, their ages ranged from 14 to 80, and their losses surpassed any of the armed forces.

In my view The Battle of the Atlantic takes first honours.

[Geoffrey Dron]

The salvation of Britain in 1940/41 was due not only to the RAF but also to the sacrifices of the Royal and Merchant Navies in the N Atlantic. The latter is too often forgotten.

[Adrian Gilbert]

What a mean-spirited, nasty little comment from John D of Canada. I hope his views are not typical of all Canadians. We in Britain still regard Canada with affection and Canadians as close relatives. If some stupid Oxford professor has caused offence, then I am sorry for this but please don't assume he speaks for all of us. In fact he may not even have been British himself and if he was, he was probably a 'leftie'. Say no more.

As for our finest hour, I would list the defeat of Julius Caesar by Cassivelaunus in 55 and 54 BC when this cruel tyrrant was denied possession of our island. The Romans were kept out for a further 90 years. The modern British would do well to follow the examle when dealing with the EU.

[Peter N]

My father served in the UK during WW2 and one of his most memorable moments was seeing a man in London leave his burning house, due to a hit by a buzz bomb, and go off to his work at a factory producing war materials...he said he never saw a more determined group of people and always admired their spirit.

From an American (who is also 1/2 Irish & Catholic) to the British people: Cheers.

[PJR]

Ironic that Britain's most heroic moment served little strategic value, though it did (as it still does) enthuse the British public.

[Tom W]

Each day in the 1940s and the rest of the war, many people went out to "work" not knowing if that day would be their last. A bit different from complaining about the traffic on the M25!

To me, a few days short of my pension, the sight and sound of the aircraft is still a thing of wonder. So is the undoubted courage. "Bandits three o'clock chaps. Tally ho....!!!!

[WA]

Posted by: John D | 8 Aug 2008 14:53:06

Such vitriol, not at all like the Canadians I know (and I lived in Canada for 9 years). Some of us love Canada, we do remember that many Canadians fought alongside the British and lost their lives (my Grandfather was in the Lord Strathcona Horse Regiment and fought in France/Belgium; mustard gassed for his efforts). Please don't tar us all with your bitterness.

[e skelton]

Whats morally brave about fighting a battle you are already commited to? Iraq did that. 1939 should have won because we consciously chose not to let Hitler build his 'New Order' in Europe unmolested by us. We could have.

[e skelton]

To Canadian John D. Republican (we prefer the Cromwellian word 'Commonwealth') Englishmen like me still love our cousins overseas. Please help us to ditch the Eurotrash house of Windsor by making it clear that you dont want a 'Prince Ranier of Hello Magazine' as your head of state.

[ronski]

Unfortunately, one word can explain the sad deterioration of England - Labour. The nanny state does not grow brave souls.

[Ragnar Vagmoernasson]

The "Battle of Britain" was an insignificant school play ground scrap, and just as irrelevant to British history, compared to the Battle of the Atlantic.

People can not eat Spitfires, and they can not make them from "hope".

Von Brandenburg-Preussen.

[TrevorH]

"Today, the British Royal family routinely jets off to the United States for vacations, ignoring Canada entirely," huh?

where do you get that from?

typical prejudiced rubbish

BTW
Closing the gates at Hugemont was a pretty heroic high water mark - battle winning - moment

[nyanimal]

I live in the USA although not a native but a military veteran and I totally agree with my northern neighbor. England should just become a state of the US. Mainland Europe cannot stand you so where else is there for you but here? The so called lend-lease (read lend lease/reverse lend lease payment details as passed in the US Congress)of WWII was a business purchase not a rescue of your "empire". Just imagine, you all could vote for another Bush, rather then being just lap dogs.

[bryon l]

Ref John D' s comments - I don't agree with much of what you said particularly the comment "none of you remember". Some of us do remember I am one and find the phrase you use offensive. Our countries /commonwealth /empire common races are strongly linked. The part all the former empire played in development of all parts of the empire is heavily interlinked. None of the modern nations and peoples of the same would exist in the same way if they had developed in isolation.

[Michal Lason]

Of course Battle of Britain. What's really nice of you guys is that the Spitfire on the front page is bearing the markings of our Polish Squadron 303. Keep it up!

[Michael]

As a History teacher in the US, I cannot agree more with this assessment. While your history is exceedingly rich with excellent examples of gallantry (Slave Trade Act) it is also filled with some less than honorable times - Opium Trade for example. However, the Battle of Britain is clearly the most heroic in terms of how much burden rested on so few shoulders. Now - some criticism - General Hugh Dowding absolutely saved the UK and he got screwed over for politics - disgusting!

[Lee Vessey]

Why was the Battle of the Atlantic not amongst the front runners? The millions of Naval and Civilian sailors how died in the icy depths, dragged down to the bottom of the sea fighting the U-boats and protecting Europe's crucial trans-Atlantic logistical supply route. Churchill spoke of it's significance, but we seem to have forgot.

[Tony Coker-Jones]

How can any of you people compare the minor skirmish of 1940 with the resounding victory of Sandy Shaw, winning the vastly more important battle of the Eurovision Song Contest. Was there ever a more pivotal moment in internatioal relations?

[Filip]

''Our decision to go to war in 1939" - with all respect to your contribution into the Second World War, you actually did nothing in 1939 (except for failing to fulfill a guarantee that you had given to Poland). Until France was attacked and it became plain that Britain will be the next Hitler's target you just watched what the Nazists were doing in Eastern Europe.

[Eric]

Well spoken, Mr. Woodrow. So far, you're the only person who has lent any credibility to this article or the postings. I'm only 22, but I know that the World War II generation - in Britain and America - are one of the finest groups of people to ever grace the planet. Coming from somebody who's very anti-war as well.

And the bitter Canadian: If it weren't for Britain's 'empire', you'd be speaking French right now, and not posting here at all.

[Arthur]

The visionaries at the then Air Ministry who forced through the development of modern fighters in an age of pacifism, the ragged-elbowed geeks that made radar possible, the unfashionable warmongering of Churchill in the 30's,and not forgetting my Polish fellow-countrymen who lie buried in their hundreds in England's soil - these misfits and stragglers helped turn the tide against a monstrous tyranny - let's hear it for the misfits!

[Ray, Lancashire]

I ‘m sorry that John D is disillusioned with Britain; unfortunately, I think that he’s right: Britain is in a sorry state today, due to generations of incompetent government by dogmatic politicians – the current crop the worst by far.
Yes, we are no more than America’s lapdog; the US government has taken us for granted for decades: all that it now requires from us is that we do as we’re told. Our leaders collude with theirs like the worst kinds of sycophants - it’s disgusting to watch.
It’s horrible too to read that we have now lost respect from Canada, particularly as I’ve never heard anyone over here say a bad word about Canadians – although we do laugh at the depiction of Canadians in South Park but take that up with the Yanks. I don’t believe either that ordinary British people have forgotten the contribution of the Commonwealth and the US, to Britain’s survival in World War Two.
If it’s any consolation to Canadians, our so-called intellectual classes don’t speak for the rest of us; and to everyone else, nor do our politicians, not even for a significant minority. When we vote we only get a choice between dumb and dumber. And unfortunately again, we do seem to have a small but noisy, bunch of ‘intellectual’ dead-heads in this country who like to stir things up a bit with provocative comments. I’m sure that the Oxford professor who made those loathsome remarks about Canada only spoke for himself and those of his ilk. I just hope that I haven’t spoken only for myself here.
On the point of the question: the Battle of Britain tops the list for me too.

[Bob Evans]

In analyzing the decline of the United Kingdom after its "finest hour" and most heroic moment, the historian's task is made so much simpler because there is a fixed date. The decline, the beginning of the end, came on July 26, 1945. Nothing would be the same after that.

[Ramsey Taylor]

I agree that the Battle of Britain, when a tiny island nation stood alone against the greatest evil of our century, ranks as Britain's finest moment. In some ways, however, I wonder if, in the long run, England's greatest heroism was to protect its scientists and thinkers (such as Newton) when darkness fell across the Continent and those who would think freely were burned in inquisitions.

[Dennis]

From my personal experience, Britain's finest was the period 1964-1967 when I was serving at an RAF station in the Midlands. The memories of that wonderful time prompted me to return 'on my own dime' twenty times for holiday.

But I may not be returning again.

The nightmare of flying and reading neverending reports of Elf and Safety nonsense, Fixed Penalty Notices for nearly everything beneath the Sun, hundreds of taxes, British Rail scrapped in favour of whatever joke is now playing - if and when it runs, street crime and criminal charges for defending ones self from it, and a Big Brother government suspicious of everyone and everything.

If I want all that, I can simply remain here, in The Colonies.

Or I can take my passport and visit Canada. It is, after all, a very pleasant and civilised nation and not our 'little sister' as some claim.

[LB]

Many pilots paid the ultimate price saving England from invasion, they should forever be honoured as should the pilots who survived.But without the Hurricane and Spitfire all would have been lost,so the two men who where instrumental in the Battle of Britain victory where the aircraft designers Sydney Camm (Hurricane) and R J Mitchell (Spitfire).

[M Mantle]

To John D of Canada,
I very much like Canada and am proud of the links between Canada and the UK. Also know we should always be grateful for the help from Canada, the Australians and Kiwis for their help in the Battle of Britain. It was our proudest moment, and one of the reasons for the success was the help from the Commonwealth.
Hope you manage to ignore the comments of the misinformed few. and I hope the UK does manage to measure its willingness to be a US lap dog.

[Jon Kingsbury]

Yes Agincourt and Crecy - battles that were lost by the French opposing an agressive, invading force of English. Yes, I agree, our finest hour.............Fortunately they won the 100 years war and put the English back in their cage..

[John Orford]

Thank you John D - I wish I'd said that: "a chubby school girl, infatuated with the quarterback of the football team". Read the comments any day and count the US slang - are they all adolescents?

[Paul Halsall]

@Noel Falconer.

A bit over the top, old man. I have never met anybody in Britain who has expressed even mild dislike for Canadians. Now Australians are a different matter.

[W DToulman]

In the context of the Battle of Britain might I mention a forgotten hero; Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

He was willing to risk his Presidency by supplying us with 50 destroyers and hundreds of thousands of rifles to make good our losses at Dunkirk. He set up Lend-lease to help us pay for American supplies when we were economicaly bankrupt at the end of 1940.

He could have been impeached but he took the personal risk.

[frankin ohlin]

At Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln observed that " the occasion is piled high with difficulty and that we must rise to meet it." The RAF did that , day in and day out.

The occasion is piled high once more; who will rise to meet it now?

[Ken Leyland]

The real "Battle of Britain" was of course The Battle of The Atlantic - six years not six weeks. But since it was fought from Liverpool, not over the Home Counties, never stood a chance of consideration.

[Eamon]

To John in Canada. There are still some of us left who went through the war and remember what Canada did for us. However you don't teach your own people your history well either. The Royal Canadian Navy kept the Atlantic open during WWII but how many of your countrymen even know that. What did you give your veterans when they returned home? Britain has changed a lot and the modern person is nothing like the person of my era. You talk about your future republic but you will go under just like Britain has with your immigration policy. I have retired away from Britain and it's dreadful lifestyle.

[Renier Theron , Franschhoek , South Africa]

Since childhood I've always been interested in the history of the Battle of Britian , even today.
With great pleasure I received my copy of Reach for the Sky by Douglas Bader as an English 2nd Language prescribed book in my first year at High School as a boy ( I'm Afrikaans speaking from South Africa ).
So it was with great expectation that I visited Duxford during 2002 , enjoying every moment until , to my bitter disappointment no mention was made of the South African contribution that flew in the RAF during the Battle of Britian , despite heroes like Sailor Malan's 65 kills , etc.

[Steve]

I would have to agree with the 'detached yank's' comment.I feel Dunkirk was a much greater triumph against all odds, that involved a much greater cross-section of our society pulling together for each-other than the Battle of Britain, therefore making it our finest our in my opinion. The Battle of Britain was triumphed by Churchill at the time as a political rallying call in an otherwise desperate year- more for morale purposes than it being a genuine turning point. The odds 'the few' faced have been overstated (mainly in Churchill's writings), the Luftwaffe was in poor shape too at the time, and historical research shows that the number of fighter aircraft each side could put into action each day were fairly equal. Calling it the 'Battle of Britain', is also somewhat overdramatic- British freedom was not preserved in the air, but through the prescence of the overwhelmingly superior Royal Navy to threaten the woefully inadequate 'invasion force' the Germans could muster.
I don't deny that the Battle of Britain was one of or finer ours, but I feel Dunkirk is a truer show of the character of our nation, and a more meaningful victory.

[Frank H. Madigan]

The Battle of Britain was not only a victory for the RAF. It was fought by the RAAF, RNAF the RCAF and many other nationalities from occupied countries flying for the RAF. Their victory also.

I am not sure where the Oxford professor gets his information but we in Canada are proudly members of the British Commonwealth of nations. HM is our head of state and indeed if the British were to abolish the monarchy Canada would still be a kingdom. We criticize and support our American cousins. Love to shop and visit both the UK and the USA and are proud of their accomplishments.

I have four grandchildren who are American, two who are British (Welsh if you talk to their father) and I have not got an inferiority complex as appears John D. has.

PS: Pick another truly British activity for your finest hour. Lots of good suggestions here.

[Baz 'the ordinary Australian']

I would like to know why UK Customs makes us Aussies que up for ages when arriving into the UK, whilst German and French travellers breeze right through on the EU line.

Us Aussies (and yanks) saved your country and this is how you repay us back. Shame!

[LarryOldtimer]

I would have voted for when ordinary seaman Jack Crawford shinnied up a mast under heavy fire and nailed the colors back on on the flagship of Admiral Adam Duncan in the British battle against the Dutch on October 11, 1797.

His quick wit and courage saved the arse of the British navy that day. Never have I read in history where any other individual has done so much for so many.

The powerful Dutch navy was defeated so badly by the Brits who were rallied by this feat of immense courage by ordinary seaman Jack Crawford that the Dutch never again had a navy worth mentioning.

And young Jack Crawford had been "pressed" into service at that!

[Ben]

Perhaps people care to watch Capra's "Why we fight
' There's a lot of authentic footage and the first part starts here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaeHnMn3Mig

Thanks to John D for a rather hilarious twist to this blog. It left the impression of somebody desiring to be somebody's poodle's poodle. Very funny stuff.

[Spike]

Growing up in Natal, South Africa, the evidence of Britain's spent glory was all around me. The defence of Rorkes Drift, Durnfords last stand at Isandhlwana, Buller's VC at Hlobane...if nothing else a nation who were prepared to stand and fight. But as Noel Falconer says - although he has hopelessly exagerated his case - thosed heros would not recognise the Britain of today. The nanny state, the effete aristocracy and the spread of yob culture have had a disasterous impact.

[Patrick Dooley]

Re "Paddy" Finucane. I am a solicitor in Queensland, Australia. Recently, I had cause to have an affidavit sworn by an English client whom I know as "Paddy" and who has always referred to himself as "Paddy". I asked him for his full name for the purposes of his affidavit, expecting that his christian name would be Patrick. Instead, he told me that his name was something entirely different. I asked him why he referred to hinself as "Paddy" and he told me that he was a 6 year old boy in the Home Counties during the Battle of Britain and that he and his school mates would watch the aerial dog fights from the school yard. They would each adopt a particular RAF pilot to follow and he chose "Paddy" Finucane. My client insisted that "Paddy" be inserted between his christian name and his surname in his affidavit. Clearly, Paddy Finicane's deeds are not forgotten among his particular generation,

[Michael]

The difficulty with describing this as Britain's finest moment, is that the victory was fundamentally won by the officers and men of the Royal Air Force ( and I should stress that I include in that description all the men who escaped from occupied Europe together with the Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, Rhodesians and South Africans who came from across the sea to fight and die many miles from home) which was after all a relatively small organisation. Although it would be wrong to say that this struggle did not engage the balance of the population, even a Londoner in the bombing of late 1940 was now where near at the same degree of risk of violent death and injury as the young (and very exhausted) pilots waiting at dispersal. Their ethos, comradery and determination were not necessarily shared by the balance of the population. And the really sad thing is that that very same ethos, comradery and determination would be the subject of widespread ridicule amongst today's chattering classes.

I grew up after the war but most of the schoolboys of my era could name Ginger Lacey, Bob Stanford Tuck and Al Deere to mention a few - and the real afficionados (who hogged the aviation titles in the school library) knew the difference between a Mk I, Mk II, Mk V and Mk IX Spitfire. These pilots were by then men in early middle age - they always seemed to appear nattily dressed in suits, driving some exotic sports car and squiring beautiful women with a (seeming) confidence and self assuredness to which we could only aspire. I remember the pride with which my ATC Squadron was inspected by Douglas Bader - everyone made sure their boots shone like glass, gaiters and webbing blanco'd whiter than anyone could ever imagine and we stood there ramrod straight fit to explode.

I'm quite sorry for my son - his generation's heros are little boys by comparison - spoilt, ignorant and foul mouthed footballers.

[Esther]

Wonderfully personal slant on the debate, Baz.
Next up: Why are British citizens allowed to enter the Republic of Ireland without a visa after what they did during the potato famine?

[Frank]

Margret Thatcher breaking the neck of the Collectivists would be my favourite.

[Ben]

The Battle of Britain may have been the Armed Forces finest hour.

But Britain itself? I'd lay that honour on the exacuation of Dunkirk.

[mary hart]

Great Britain is the best country on the planet. it's too hard to figure one event in your history that stands out as the best moment...your history is chock full of bravery and brilliance. there are no finer people.

i noticed in all these posts that nobody mentioned the Glorious Revolution. it had never happened before, nor since, that a monarch was enthroned without bloodshed.

altho it's politically inexpedient to respect the Royals, i think more credit should be given to the monarchy, both past and present. if the Queen had more control over the parliament and that beast of a PM, the country would be in a different game. And winning.

[Tato Dulanci, Spain]

Against the Armada you were not heroic at all.
You were just very lucky with some thousands of million tons of luck.
No more, no less.
By the way, every time you hear or read the words Spanish Armada a cold sweat spreads on your face and body.
Yet!!
P.S.: good luck won't last forever.

[Jon Anderson]

Tato,

the luck was with the Spanish, I think. It's beyond doubt that if the Armada had not been blown across the North Sea, allowing some to escape, then all of the Spanish ships would have been sent to the bottom of the sea. It’s possible I suppose, that the English may not have been quite as heroic as claimed; but then it’s difficult if the enemy runs away. There’s no shame in admitting it, you know. We can still be friends, can't we, given that it happened over 400 years ago?

[paul harrison]

my step-father was a wing commander
during the war , flighing Spitfires. I have all hs old reminders, and I am sure that he was one of England's finest.
I upset him by joining the French Foreign Legion, but I am still proud of what we do, as we are probably the nearest you can get to an international peace-keeping force.
We are members of a force counting 112 nationalites, and everyday we can remember the days past together in fighting.I've been on the frount with Canadiens, Americans,Polish, Cheques,English, Spanish, and a lot of others, so
Please don't fight between yourselves as we are all brothers in armes against the oppression of those that are hateful against us. England was great, is great, loves its commonwealth, and we are all together against those that oppress us. Remember that the only universal language is PEACE(in ENGLISH).

[Filip]

"Our decision to go to war in 1939" - with all respect to your contribution into the Second World War, you actually did nothing in 1939 (apart from breaking the guarantee that Britain had previously given to Poland). Until France was attacked and it became plain that Britain will be the next Hitler's target, you just watched indifferently what the Nazists were doing in Eastern Europe.

[Tato Dulanci, Spain]

Jon,

fifty per cent friendship and
fifty per cent rivalry, as that shown in the film "The princess bride".
Swords up!!