Could this be the end of the Republicans?

This was an important political moment.

Forget the Presidential election for a second. This was, politically, more important than that.

David Brooks captured it brilliantly in the New York Times. In an angry piece entitled "Revolt of the Nihilists", Brooks lays into Nancy Pelosi for using this hour of peril to make a Democratic fundraising speech.

But most of all he lays into conservative Republicans:

Now they have once again confused talk radio with reality. If this economy slides, they will go down in history as the Smoot-Hawleys of the 21st century. With this vote, they’ve taken responsibility for this economy, and they will be held accountable. The short-term blows will fall on John McCain, the long-term stress on the existence of the G.O.P. as we know it.

Might this event begin to split the Republican party? The banking and establishment Republicans together with the moderates and reformers might go one way, with the populist, talk radio base going the other way.

Impending defeat (in Congressional elections at a minimum) means that the coming years will be difficult for the party and see a hard fight over its future. The vote last night shows that the conservative base does not easily come to heel. And has a real constituency.

So could last night see the end for the GOP?

Comments

[Stephen Marchant]

Sounds lie the Republican party will go the same way asthe Conservatives in the 1990s. They need to find a new way. I believe, like the UK, we will see extremism and xenophobic politicians emerge from this crisis. The signs are already here in Europe. I just hope the cetre ground can take hold and deliver a fair society - neither socialist or capitalist - that will become a true democratic model for the 1st Century.

[Audras Ambries]

Both major parties are splitting.

There are some 43 insurgent campaigns this year, I believe, that follow the principles of former candidate Ron Paul. So on the Republican side you're splitting paleoconservatives and neoconservatives.

On the Democrat side, there is no major insurgency going on; however, they've been split for quite some time between the moderate/neoconnish and the leftist/Marxish Dems.

But you are right, the Republicans are splitting basically in two: the McCain Republicans (neocons) and the non-McCain Republicans (paleocons/non-hawkish neocons).

[miguel garcia]

The absurdist result of the US Congress debate on the credit crunch measures demonstrates, more clearly than any single event in recent years, the truth of the political philosopher Michael Oakeshott's dictum that "politics is not the real world".

[Nigel]

I don't think much has changed. The Republican party has had a strong faction that is well to the right of Gengis Khan, ever since Ronald Reagan brought it out out from its cave.

[Rob Spooner]

The Republican Establishment has found the ignorant to be a useful ally over the years, but now may be realizing that they have taken over. The GOP has nominated a woman for VP who believes that there were dinosaurs on the earth 6000 years ago. And that abstinence-only sex education works, despite what ought to be pretty convincing evidence to the contrary.

The socially progressive, economically conservative, and pro-science constituency has had no home for decades. I left the GOP in 1968, but I have only moved as far as Independent. Maybe the Palin crowd will drive enough people away from the GOP and into the Democratic Party to change the tenor.

But I doubt it.

[Paul Freeman]

Let's face it, the US has two quite poor candidates for this election. Is this the best they've got, McCain who is stilted and intellectually not adept enough, Obama who is arrogant, and inexperienced in foreign policy? The partisan ineptness shown yesterday was apalling, a stupid speech from Pelosi who mismanaged the vote, and a naive response from Main Street to life's realities.

[Philip]

What we are witnessing is the complete collapse of neo-liberal economic orthodoxy. The Republican right may be repellent but at least they are honest. Hank Paulson cuts a ridiculous figure. The same person saying 'trust me' was one of the investment bankers assuring us their risk management was robust.

[James Lipscomb]

I live here among the ignorant Republican allies and they are not always as ignorant as you think. There will be a bailout, but the small swing could be a big swing if the marathon sessions could produce the one thing the ignorant ask, which is how to punish those responsible. The ignorant have watched their retirement plans drop 30% over the last few months with the most preciptious fall coming in the last two weeks. They believe something must be done, but if they are expected to pay their taxes and put things back on track, then what happens to those who got us into the mess? Perhaps the best suggestion I have heard yet is that while taking government backing for bad loan anyone with a job title vice president or equivalent or higher in the company is required to work for minimum wage. I countered that the execs will find other ways to reward themselves but admire the symbolism at the same time. If Washington understood that the anger is less about the tab than a perception of a $700.0 billion dollar welfare check to the undeserving, it would pass. If welfare mothers are forced to work the counter at McDonalds, investment bankers can give back what they took.

[Dmitry Nikolin-Dolsky]

If the rejection of this bill was just another act of the big pre-election game between the two parties, its timing was absolutely wrong. I'm afraid Americans will go to the polls in Nov amid shrills from the collapsing world market.

[William]

I thought the republicans were a minority. When did a minority decide the outcome of a vote?

[Sylvia]

What I find so astonishing is that many Americans actually believed in the encouraging words uttered by President Bush and his Republican entourage on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and again on Sunday. However, on Monday, as we all know, Bush & entourage had to face the fact that they had failed in having the rescue plan adopted, resulting in another gigantic shock in the market. It is not about the end of the Republican Party, for Republicans will never allow this to happen as they have too much invested in their Party. It is more about the disgust and distrust the American public will have for political parties in general and for Wall Street as a whole. Their patience and blind belief in the Presidency must have come to an end. The American public certainly took their time to come to this conclusion, one could say.

[Jez W]

Nailed on there's a split;

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/28/politics/politico/thecrypt/main4484035.shtml

"In a closed-door session with House Republicans, Minority Leader John A. Boehner just called the financial rescue deal a “crap sandwich”

'Crap sandwich.'- I think that just about sums up the mood all over!

[Robert Lamb]

I truly hope this is the end on the GOP and the neoconservatives who control it. They have trashed the checks-and-balances concept of a loyal opposition in government. Their goal is establishment of a one-party government with an "elected" dictator. To me, that is Fascism. I don't want any! I hope the GOP as it exist today is dead. I don't think the Democratic Party deserves to live, either. They have not discharged their duties in a long time. Perhaps the US will re-emerge as a nation with a politically aware involved populace and a healthy political tension in government; a Phoenix. Perhaps that will be the legacy of George W. Bush and his gang.

RL

[Dave]

I do find it interesting that the Republicans are getting the "blame" for not passing the bill. Yet the Democrats have a majority and could pass it unilaterally. 40% of the Democrats voted against the bill. Why is this overlooked? Is it possible that in the media's breathless crusade to elect Obama and Democrats they are hiding this simple fact?

[John Rhys-Davies]

Its always hard to separate fact from propaganda in an American election year, especially as, allegedly, US reporters vote Democrat in nine cases out of ten, and few seem willing to report objectively without doing their bit for the party.
Our view in Britain is coloured by this bias, as we have reporters who are simply too willing to accept what they read in the American press and then re-cycle those views as facts. This leads to a complete misunderstanding of what is really going on. One of the great joys of the last election was watching the growing confusion on the faces of those very confident BBC World presenters, as American voters failed to do what British Guardian readers had explained they should do.

As for the present financial meltdown, experience suggests that the world we know will not come to an end; that doing nothing may be better than doing the wrong thing, as the Law of Unintended Consequences invariably bites us in the ass: and that when it is over, we will all know exactly what should have been done.
I suspect too, that the Republican Party, will survive. It has always been a broader church than the Democratic Party, with a far wider range of views. I'll even still take a punt on McCain winning, as Middle America will go for Mom and Dad being in charge, rather than the unknown Messiah.
I also doubt that Sarah Palin believes that dinosaurs roamed the Earth 6000 years ago... but it sure is a clincher in an election argument!

[Some Guy]

This isn't the end of the Republican party, by any means. This is the beginning of the restoration of the Republican party to what it's supposed to stand for: small government, free enterprise, and civil liberties.

Ron Paul has led a lot of us back to the Republican party, and we are going to clean house. The neocons will have to find somewhere else to peddle their "new world order". Too bad for them that Argentina isn't accepting expat fascists anymore.

[Daryl Gregoire]

What exactly is a "neo-liberal economic orthodoxy". Please...it's talk like that, that is part of the problem. I really feel sorry for the middle class, elderly and welfare class of the US. If things don't get back on track soon I predict two things. 1. Crime will spike. Spontaneous looting from those poor people who feel it is their right to do so after being stripped of their job, home and all that they have worked for at the hands of 'wall street' and the US government 2. Terroists will strike as the US is in an extremely vulnerable position and they want nothing more than a complete collapse of the US in every way possible, and this is EXACTLY what any terrorist has been dreaming for. I think it's safe to say this all started from 911 and the rediculious manor George W. responded. Let's just say that as far as the terrorists are concerned...the plan could not have worked out better and the US gov have only them selves to blame.

[E. Elder]

If the GOP splits, it will attain permanent minority status. This would be good for America. The Democratic Party is broad enough to govern the country and is more pragmatic than the ideologues in the GOP. I have to laugh about leftist Marxist Democrats. The last time the US had a liberal president was in the 1940s. I don't know any Dem Marxists. I don't think the Republicans do either.

[Pilgrim]

If they could paper over their differences and nominate McCain and Palin, they can survive this.

This is purely about individual House members that are up for election and are afraid to face the voters in their district.

The House Republican leadership must have known the vote was going to fail, the one thing they can do is count.

[Dave]

Since when have Republicans acted like Republicans in the past 8 years?? They spent this country into a hole that we may never get out of!

[Giar]

GOP? God's own Peabrains?

[Jeff]

If this was such a great bill, why didn't the MAJORITY Democrats pass it on its own and take all the credit?

They did not because they know its a crock as well (at least 40% of them did).

AMEN to no bailout. Let the market re balance and get rid of the deadwood before they rise to defraud Main Street once again.

[Bandit]

The GOP showed some unexpected courage in putting down this dog of a bill. If I have to pay for Wall St firms laying off their risk on the taxpayers can I at least get a lien on the properties?

[David]

The Democrat dissidents need further reassurance and over the next few days will obtain the tweaks to the plan they need. They will then ensure the bill passes, with the Republicans largely opposing. The latter will be banking on a populist backlash, but there is no realistic prospect of this happening. The Republican campaign will be left facing both ways, while Obama's distancing of himself from the fray will give him enough room to manoeuvre around the arguments. The ideological rift will sink McCain and a Democrat landslide will start featuring in Press comment in about 2 weeks. That will be an exaggeration of the reality, but he'll win comfortably. Anyone out there with a more plausible prediction?

[Juan]

See what happens when you mix politics and religion. The GOP let the evangelicals run the roost, and McCain let them pick his VP. Now, they have to face the firing squad and rebuild their base. I hated Reagan, but at least he had the good sense to keep religion out of the White House.

[Brad]

40% of Democrats voted AGAINST Pelosi and this Democrat bill in a Congress with a Democrat majority that can pass any bill it wants.

By what psychotically absurd spin of illogic is this a Republican fault?

[Ian Thorpe]

What the mainsteam media has not picked up is the court case brough against Obama by a Hillary Clinton supporting Democrat aleging Obama in not elegible to contest the Presidency.
Obama's campaign managers moved for dismissal but that has been denied and Obama ordered to present to the court within three days proof of his American citizenship.

A transcript of the court's denial of the motion has been put on the net but it is difficult to read. The buildup to this point is available at Americas Right Look in the right hand (navigation) column below the writers profile and adverts for links to posts headed Berg v Obama.

Now if this continues it will make things really interesting.

[JeffS]

LOL! Just wishful thinking, I guess. I doubt the Republicans (and I am not one) will vanish as a political party because of this, or even be serious diminished. There was similar speculation about the Democrats not all that long ago and that was just so much hot air, too.

[Dennis Eagan]

The Republican Party has been adrift since the loss to Franklin Roosevelt in 1932. Roosevelt’s policies had two unintended consequences – extending the Great Depression and showering Americans with a veritable blizzard of “recovery” projects that forever changed the perceived role of the US government. The transformation from a largely self-reliant populace to one for which the government is seen as the well spring of solutions for all national quandaries, whether great or small, took less than the twenty years from Hoover to Eisenhower and blurred the differences between the two parties. A second transformation involved the nature of the American Congress – Representatives and Senators alike now see their primary tasks as winning elections in perpetuity, rather than doing the least harm while in office.

[RLR]

Why is it that most all the pundants are on the side of selling out the tax payer? My rejection of this isn't about punishing anyone. I bet most that are against understand that there will be pain on main street. What I and many understand is that the market is going to correct with or without the bailout. With the plan, the tax payer is further in-debted as well as this taking longer to unwind. Some of us understand that credit and debt is not wealth and will never be so. It's time to start paying back.

[Inverse137]

Dare to dream!

Those neo-cons destroyed my country and my republican party.

Those bible thumpers need to go back to their back-woods cabins. They don't know a damn thing about economic policy for the world's super power. They are only concerned with posting biblical quotes in schools and court houses.

How long does it take to build a super power: 200+ years. How long does it take to destroy one? 4 years with a self serving neo-con as leader.

[Kim]

It amazes me that either some Americans do not want to discuss it or are truly uninformed that the Dems are in cotrol and helped vote it down. Americans need to stop bickering over GOP and Dems and start holding our elected officials accountable. We need to know their records and if they do not support our believes then do not re-elect them. We should not elect someone do to race, religion or gender, but true ability to perform the job and provide new vision to Washington. Americans have become to relaxed and take too many freedoms for granted. We must stop asking the government to solve our problems and stop the expansion of government. We have numerous examples where they fail so why grow it. We must educate ourselves on our constitution and laws and make our elected abide. It is time for Americans to take a stand. We need a new tax system so businesses can flourish, we need to repair our schools and more government red tape is not the answer as evident by our poorly performing schools, we must stop trying to make US so PC and coddle our kids, we must expect our citizens to work and pay for their responsibilities such as for the # of children they have. Until America stops making excuses for those who won't and dont' then we will continue to struggle. Until Americans stop belieiving everything they are told we will struggle and until Americans start respecting where we live we will struggle. Lets not be divided by Dems vs. GOP as that side tracks America from the real issues. Who cares if McCain is old, Palin shoots Moose or Obama is bi-racial? Those are details that keep us from electing the best candidate.

I think we need to stop recycling old problems and find solutions. I do not know if bailing out them is the answer or not. My gut says no. DEMS should have never pressured businesses to finance risky loans. The idea to place minorities and lower income in homes was great, but owning a home is not the answer for everyone. Our finances are out of control. We must ask for pork spending to be halted, enforce the rules to address our immigration issue because they do not do jobs that Americans won't do. Americans need jobs and we need legal immigrants that can FILL A ROLE THAT AN AMERICAN CAN NOT. They should never take a position that a citizen can fill. We must demand change and continue to monitor progress or we will remain hamsters on a wheel.

[Inverse137]

"What we are witnessing is the complete collapse of neo-liberal economic orthodoxy. "

Uhh, what exactly is "neo-liberal economic orthodoxy."

And how do you blame the democrats for neo-con economic policy?

I defy you to find a single democrat that proposes cutting income (reducing taxes) and immediately launching a huge expendeture (a war.)

Bush is the first president to charge the expense of a war. I wonder what the frequent flyer miles added up to?

"What we are witnessing is the complete collapse of neo-liberal economic orthodoxy." Double talk like that would be too funny if it didn't scare the hell out of me.

[Francis]

Here is a silly thought
May be it was a planned trap that went wrong.
That is the bill was suposed to pass but enough Rep against so that if things went wrong Dem's can be blamed for the bill

[Patti]

No spin of illogic at all. Simply the logic that the corporate greed de-regulation mania of Republicans since Reagan bear the responsibility for the mess in the first place.

I actually approve of the Republicans voting no. The Democrats were willing to pass a bill with too few restrictions on the Bush administration and it's "my way or the highway" tactics, and too much leniency for the top Wall Street movers. Until those restrictions are firmly in place, I'm actually happy with the Republicans for the first time in.........my whole life??

Yep. My whole life. But I'm still voting straight Dem. :)

[cb]

Brad - Didn't you mean to say that 67% of Republicans voted against this bill???

[Louise]

i'll echo again. If the Dems wanted this bill past quickly then they could have got their own party to do it. they didnt and i think its because they know mosts americans dont want this bailout and Pelosi and gang dont want the bill to be past as a democratic bill with republicans saying they were against it etc.
I also think Nancy Palosi needs to go. she is utterly useless and has done nothing to help this country.

[Leo]

the Democrats are FAR from united. Pelosi(speaker of the house for you ignorant ones) gave a speech just before the vote accusing the Republicans of being unpatriotic if they didn't vote in favor of the bailout. the very title of this article is so biased... my head spins. the Republicans warned the house and senate of this pending crash years ago, yes even the Clintons, and the Democrats casually disregarded the warnings. if the Democrats can't agree then how is this the Republicans' fault? you guys need to get your liberal heads out of your liberal behinds

[Andrew Milner]

"Mr. President. American is under attack." He froze then, too.

[lo]

This is nothing more than a power play to give full control of all banking and finance to the Fed before B and co get out of office. Then the next pres (Likely O) will not have any real power to change anything. the $700B is just a little cover number to focus everyones attention on. the devil is in the details. How can you have a bill be only 3 pages long in it's intial form. This thing would have given full control of the purse strings to the FED ultimately. Notice that after the bill failed the FED pumped $630B into the markets. So they have the cash let them keep the house of cards standing not the tax payers. The gov should buy the houses then rewrite the mortgages and drop the rates to something affordable (simple interest as well) and eliminate the excess principal which is really about 70% of the actual charged amount.

Don't b at me because I already lost a house to foreclosure so I will not be getting anything out of this mess. I was just ahead of the curve by about 1.5 years back in '05

[Andrew Milner]

Tax and spend vs. borrow and spend.

[Mike Fisher]

I live in the UK and I am so relieved that the 700 billion was not passed by congress. Like so many americans, I believe that let the fat cats take responsibility for their actions and let them have an encounter with humility which is not something you can by in Costco or Wallmart with your credit card.
I have been waiting for the crunch to come for at least the past ten years. And all I have seen is the prices of houses go up and up to the point that most people in the UK could not afford to buy their own home. And those that could to the gamble that house prices would go up. I am one of those people that did not want to partake in the game that bankers, estate agents and the UK goverment played. I have waited and waited and still no let up until recently when the first bank to go down in the UK was Northern Rock and to my amasement were rescued by the UK goverment. I have saved and saved waiting for the day that house prices dropped and now I can with my hard earned cash do a deal that fits an accurate price for a house in the UK.

[Art Laramee]

There’s a lot of spin going on regarding yesterday’s vote of 205 – 228 against..

Democrats 140 yes and 95 no

Republicans 65 yes and 133 no

If it had passed with the extra 13 Republican votes it would have been 218 – 215 in favor

Democrats 140 yes and 95 no

Republicans 78 yes and 120 no

If it had passed with an extra 13 Democratic votes it would have been 218 – 215 in favor

Democrats 153 yes and 82 no

Republicans 65 yes and 133 no

So what can we conclude from this?

It failed with a majority of Democrats in favor and a minority of Republicans in favor.

If it had succeeded in either case it would have succeeded with a majority of Democrats in favor and a minority of Republicans in favor.

Assume that both vote counters for each party knew their vote count, which is not an unfair assumption, then something caused last minute switching. The only event identifiable is Nancy Pelosi’s highly critical partisan speech laying this whole mess unfairly at the Republican’s feet.

The post vote partisan statements by Frank regarding the Republican’s whose feeling were hurt as not putting their country first were laughable given that 95 Democrats voted no. It is more likely that the Republicans who switched their vote did so for the same reason the Democrats did not want to pass this bill on their own majority, which they had the capacity to do, and that’s because the majority of Americans hate the bailout of Wall Street idea.

The only way this bill was going to pass was if the Democrats and Republicans marched side by side to the altar so that none could get a campaign advantage over the other. Pelosi fractured the truce with her speech. She personally blew it up. That is an unavoidable conclusion in my opinion.

[Justin Rudd]

To those of you who say "Let the banks collapse" - I have a very simple analogy.

Imagine there are sufficient forged bank notes in circulation, that everyone loses faith in the currency and stops using it. Business grinds to a halt, no-one can buy anything, no-one can pay any bills, chaos ensues. You can after all only use barter for so much.

The absolute first priority is getting the forgeries out of circulation, so confidence in the currency is restored, and people can start trusting and using the currency again.

If you wait for the witch hunt to pin the finger of blame and dish out retribution, the system will collapse, and we will all be in for it.

This is the same. Take the toxic debt out of the system, so money can be trusted again, or we are all screwed. If the banks cannot trust each other for fear of the hidden toxic investments on their balance sheets, the flow of money dries up and everything stalls. Money only works when it keeps moving.

Act now, blame later, or later is going to be very unpleasant indeed.

[Paul]

Speaking as an American citizen who has, for a generation, been fed up with the nonsense of the Republican party, I sincerely hope this marks the end of that political "party". They've proven their incompetence again and again. The same party that brought us the Great Depression of the 1930s is most likely going to usher in the Great Depression of the 21st Century. Good riddance.

[John B]

Talk about splits, I find it more than a little weird to see lefties demanding a giant bailout of Wall Street in obedience to GW Bush. Even more hilarious, they then 'blame' Republicans for blocking it when Pelosi's own committee chairs didn't support her and Obama (where he?) apparently didn't even try to persuade the Black Caucus into line. Either Pelosi is incompetent beyond belief or there was never any intention to pass this thing.

As for wiping out the GOP, it could just as easily work the other way. The Dems have lurched a long way to the left, fielding an all-leftist Presidential ticket and alienating some of their traditional support (not just Haillaryites). If the party in Congress now comes back with its pork-infested version of the bill (complete with ACORN slush-fund and drilling-ban) and passes it without Republican support, they could get royally slaughtered in November.

[Carlos]

Imagine the late conservative William Buckley's commentary on Gov. Palin. This is not your father's GOP. RIP.

[Randy]

dinosaurs on the earth? don't know if the bailout rejection came from that faction, the part about including all business or labor union retirement funds for bailout in advance of them asking for it would probably scare most anyone that read the bill

[john]

The GOP isnt going away. Our system is structured for two major partys. Both the GOP and the Dims will drift awhile, (especially the Dims under all-talk Obama). When a real leader comes along things will change.

We need another Reagan.

[Sal]

As they should split. Here's your bailout money at work: "AIG also said in a filing with the Securities & Exchange Commission that it is paying about 130 executives cash awards as part of a retention program for the giant insurer, which got the right to borrow up to $85 billion from the government last week in a deal to avert possible bankruptcy."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122243652434678847.html

[Joe]

The End of the Republicans?
Don't be silly.

But if enough Americans were made aware of what EXACTLY lead to this crisis, Democrats may end up the minority party for a generation or longer.

Not to worry, fellow travelers! Nancy Pelosi has vowed that there will be no "witch hunt" to discover the root cause of the finacial collapse on her watch!

Congressional Approval Rating at 9% and falling...

[Kate]

Could this be the end of the Republicans? Yes. It could also be the end of the Democrats, and indeed of the USA itself.

Let's hope the replacements are improvements.

[graham]

I think it can work both ways. Lets say Obama wins. If there is a recession, he will not be able to live up to many/any of his election promises. Its likely that he will have to go to a Democratic majority Congress and ask for more money for Wall Street. If he succeeds but the bail out fails to halt the recession then he will be seen as a failure. If he fails to get support from his own Democrats he will be seen as a lame duck. The other point is that the rejection of the bill had widespread support amongst the American public. If eventually the people bail out the Banks and the country fails to recover then those in charge will take the flak. That could be the Democrats.

[NormBlon]

It will take a while, but what the Republicans must now do is repudiate the Christian Right and their demonic hold on the party. The Evangelicals will howl and splutter, but eventually they'll drown in their own bile. A strong Separation of Church and State law will keep them tethered. Religion is a curse in politics. Republicans must regain their honour.

[bll]

Um Ian Thorpe- Obama was born in Hawaii, which means he is an American. Why would he have to prove that?

[Matt]

Keep dreaming, and writing pablum like this to fill your blog. Anyone truly following this bill knows it's garbage. Paulson said his own mother wouldn't vote for it (John Batchelor show, KFI Los Angeles.) Massive takeovers of swaths of the U.S. economy by the government are not in the U.S. interest or the world's.

Obama will win the election and then the united Republicans will win back the House in 2 years. See you then.

[Kevin]

No, the U.S. doesn't have one of your Euro-parliamentary systems with 9 different parties. The Repubs are here to stay, the interesting question is about potential battles for the soul of the party and who if anyone might emerge to redefine it. Did anyone mention we could use a Ronald Reagan about now?

[Kenn]

We need to hear from more that just the Rebublicans and the Democrats. It's too narrow a field. Let them all debate so we can hear all sides. Let the GOP die: Lead follow or get out of the way.

[Andrew O'Donnell]

I am looking at the beautiful country that we gave G.W.Bush to manage and the wreck that he is handing back to us.Shame on him and his advisers.

[oldasiahand]

The Republicans are going into the wilderness for an extended period where they can recover and develop a coherent philosophy for the modern world. Their position is similar to that of the Conservatives in 1997.

[David James]

A SAD POLITICAL REALITY Wed Oct 1st, 2008

You either believe in capitalism and free enterprise or you don't.

On Monday, Congress came very close to writing the demise of the GOP and instantly transforming it into the " Republican Socialist Party ". That tragic loss to America would have been unimaginable just 8 years ago and it is to the Republicans everlasting credit that they voted their conscience instead of their fears, the more so because, in truth, there is much to fear.

Clearly, everyone rightly fears the approaching storm. Only a fool or the ignorant would declare the good ship "Free Enterprise" to be "unsinkable". But instead of bracing up, trimming the sails and facing this storm, Bush would have us flee to the old, nearby port of "Socialism".

We need leaders that have the fortitude and courage to face the storm. The people of America intuitively oppose this ill-conceived "bail-out". They know, at the grass roots level, that it is only the harbinger of worse things to come and in the end it will fail because it is based on the false premise that Americans are not strong enough nor determined enough to face hard times.

While it is true that many banks may fail it is also equally true that this fact represents an opportunity for other banks to step in and make money. That is the way "free enterprise" works and many fortunes have been made in just this fashion. The credit industry in the United States is very, very profitable. It is not surprising that some sectors face illiquidity as a result of expanding too quickly beyond their capital base. This is not fatal to American finance; we can and will recover, quickly.

We cannot allow our fears to drive us onto craggy "Shoals of Socialism" where we no longer have the sea room and freedom to navigate our ship. We must trust in each other; in our courage, industry, determination, fortitude and foresight - those very enterprising qualities that have served generations of Americans in the darkest of times.

I believe in my fellow Americans. I trust their judgment. I also believe in both parties, Democrat and Republican. I think that they each have insight and sound advice that their respective parties would do well to consider in their leadership of American. It is from this diversity of leadership that America draws its true strength and in which we all ultimately place our trust.

Now that trust is at issue. We have yielded to acrimony, recrimination, anger and hatred, those old determined enemies of our Republic. I do not, even for a minute, believe that we face the "darkest of times", but we do face a very dark moment for the collective spirit of America.

I trust my fellow Americans. I trust "Main Street" America. I trust "Joe Six-Pack" and I trust that we will all come out of this crisis stronger, wiser and more united in our beliefs than ever before and . . . we can do this without descending into the quagmire of socialism by spending 700 billion hard earned tax dollars that we can ill afford to pay back only to invite the worst sort of dependency on our government.

For those who may think it important, I am 65 years old and a life long democrat.

Thank you.

[Frankie]

I think its time that US citizens realised that individuals and governments cannot keep living on borrowed money. There comes a times of reconing.

[Andrew Milner]

So does this mean the attack on Iran's off? Because George looks like a whipped cur.

[Gregory]

Palosi is terrible. She tries to lock in blame on the Republicans and the administration by having last word before the vote. It is scary to think that such a vicious game player is third in line for the Presidency. Give me Palin any day.

[Diogenes]

Several writers have asked why the minority Republicans are getting the blame here.

This is a Republican-sponsored bill, which gives money and power to a Republican Treasury secretary, who serves at the pleasure of a Republican president, aimed at resolving an economic crisis which has happened during a Republican administration. It's a measure of the fear in the GOP that they wouldn't pull together to support their President's solution.

It's also a desperately unpopular bill for giving tax money to already-rich bankers whose fault the crisis is perceived to be. A review of the voting records shows that all the Congresscritters who voted against it are those in marginal seats, irrespective of the party they come from. Taking money from hard-working ordinary American taxpayers and using it to bail out obscenely wealthy bankers who have jeopardized the nation's economy through greed is not an election-winning strategy.

[lawhite]

"Bill Clinton told ABC’s Chris Cuomo that Democrats for years have been “resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.”

This appears to be true. Democrats naively demanded more subprime loans so poor people could buy homes, but then these poor people couldn't pay their mortgages! Duh. And both McCain and the Bush administration warned them for years that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac needed more oversight, but they were unable to get bills passed.

But anyway, because of Bush, the Republicans will be blamed. I doubt if McCain can get elected as long as this is blamed on the Republicans. The House Republicans may wind up either heroes or villains because of the defeat of the bailout, though. And more Democrats might be replaced by Republicans in the Congress, if their actions go well.

Actually, I feel sorry for whoever wins in November. They inherit an impossible mess and will be unpopular when they can't just magically clear it up right away. No one claimed the voters were logical.

If the Democrats have a clean sweep and take over all of Congress and the presidency too, there will be no good checks and balances on their spending and big government. But, after four years of that, there might be another rebellion and they may want the Republicans back again.

If McCain wins, he would be the best
to bring some sanity back to the presidency, but he would have to fight the Democrats again every bit of the way and would be another unpopular president. If Obama wins, his fall from Messiah-hood will be swift.

I think Democrats and Republicans should rename themselves Liberal and Conservative so it isn't so confusing. Like the article says, the lines have blurred between them, with many in each party.

As long as most voters remain conservative, there will always be a Republican/conservative party. They're just getting ruffled up a bit right now and we may not see much of them for four years, but then they'll be back.

I do hope McCain wins. Obama will cause much more long-term damage and take our country where we don't want to go, with big government and socialism.

[lawhite]

"Bill Clinton told ABC’s Chris Cuomo that Democrats for years have been “resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.”

This appears to be true. Democrats naively demanded more subprime loans so poor people could buy homes, but then these poor people couldn't pay their mortgages! Duh. And both McCain and the Bush administration warned them for years that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac needed more oversight, but they were unable to get bills passed.

But anyway, because of Bush, the Republicans will be blamed. I doubt if McCain can get elected as long as this is blamed on the Republicans. The House Republicans may wind up either heroes or villains because of the defeat of the bailout, though. And more Democrats might be replaced by Republicans in the Congress, if their actions go well.

Actually, I feel sorry for whoever wins in November. They inherit an impossible mess and will be unpopular when they can't just magically clear it up right away. No one claimed the voters were logical.

If the Democrats have a clean sweep and take over all of Congress and the presidency too, there will be no good checks and balances on their spending and big government. But, after four years of that, there might be another rebellion and they may want the Republicans back again.

If McCain wins, he would be the best
to bring some sanity back to the presidency, but he would have to fight the Democrats again every bit of the way and would be another unpopular president. If Obama wins, his fall from Messiah-hood will be swift.

I think Democrats and Republicans should rename themselves Liberal and Conservative so it isn't so confusing. Like the article says, the lines have blurred between them, with many in each party.

As long as most voters remain conservative, there will always be a Republican/conservative party. They're just getting ruffled up a bit right now and we may not see much of them for four years, but then they'll be back.

I do hope McCain wins. Obama will cause much more long-term damage and take our country where we don't want to go, with big government and socialism.

[Daniel Love]

How do you fix a problem? Know what caused it, and correct it.

I am perplexed at the thought: this problem came about because of Republican deregulation. What is this crisis called? A 'sub-prime' mortgage lending crisis. Why? Banks were FORCED to lend to individuals who were 'sub-prime' of a given bank's standards, starting with the Carter administration. They were told the government would back them up if things went sour.

So here we are. In a sour crisis created by a Democrat and enforced by his allies. I knew that there was something else he could do wrong...

[John Ledbury]

Do journos buy articles cheap off the internet? In 1997 they gasped it was the end of the tory party, currently it's the end of the labour party, now it's the end of the democrats. It's deja vue all over again.

[Tanna]

The bill as it stood had too much extra padding, such as bail outs for car loans, credit cards, etc. There were money packages for some groups that were known to be involved with voter fraud.
There was no responsibility asked of those that helped create the collapse, by making fraudulent over the top 'floating' mortgages. It was scrapped, and reworked. No big conspiracy, I'm sorry.

[James]

Rather than bailing out the self-imagined "Masters of the Universe" who caused this catastrophe with their obscene greed and sheer stupidity, they should be strung up - along with the Congressional harlots who made their colossal theft possible: Dodd, Frank, Blunt, et al.

[Kate]

I'm reminded of Peter Cook's observation: "There are the Republicans, who are the equivalent of our Conservative Party. And then there are the Democrats, who are the equivalent of our Conservative Party."

Leaving aside the fact that the Republican grassroots now sound rather more like the equivalent of our British National Party, the lack of diversity within American politics is something that cannot be sustained if the US is to survive.

The fact is that they have never represented the genuine though often marginalised diversity of the American political spectrum. The ludicrous way that American right-wingers apply "socialism" as a meaningless bogeyman tag to the bailout, Obama, etc. when demonstrates how incoherent and infantile US political discourse has become.

The end of free market ideology is surely bad news for the Republicans, but also the Democrats who have been largely accepting of neoliberalism and some of the other now discredited assumptions that underpinned the ascendancy of the New Right. Unless the Democrats can reposition themselves as neo-Keynesian social democrats they are likely to suffer as much in the long-term as their mirror-image equivalents who stand marginally to their right.

[Jack Thompson]

Sadly, the Rockefeller wing of the Republican Party has held sway since Reagan left office in 1989.

George The First, George the Second, and now, John McCain are in no way "conservatives." When true conservative run as true conservatives, historically, they win by wide margins.

Unfortunately, since 1989, we've had three Republican Presidents pretending to be conservative to win votes. Their behavior after election has been markedly different.

[M. R Rambler]

I do not agree that Republicans, who voted against 700 billion dollar bail out to banks were nihilistic, they voted from their own conscious, knew they have to face the electorate soon, revolted against Bush and they were ethically correct in not giving a blank check to treasury secretary for bail outs for banks for which most of US citizens will not benefit except few scammers of stock markets.

[Peter T.]

I used to be an officer in a well respected Republican Political Action Committee. I was a Republican until I grew up and saw with my own eyes how party insiders have used the GOP for their own purposes of financial gain and control. I saw it with my own eyes! The level of disconnection from the general populous and ideological ignorance is astounding. They will tell you that if you disagree with them that you are un-patriotic. They will twist data and facts to impress upon you their will so that they can gain more money and control, in the end you (the tax payer) is left paying for it. Dont believe me? Look at history over the past 40 yrs. The last great republican president was Eisenhower, and even he gave grave warnings about the military industrial complex, which he helped create.

[Howard]

the real question should be:
"Could this be the end of the US?"
I'm afraid the answer could be "Yes".

[Jewel Mathias]

Bailout:

This is fishy. Why the rush? Did they want to do this so hurriedly that we didn’t have time to think? Why the closed door meetings? Why were private investors not given a chance to buy up these toxic mortgages very cheaply? Were our creditors pressuring us? Were conflicts of interest involved? Was it political? And forget about the taxpayers ever “profiting” from this deal. I think they’re trying to scare us.

This is strange. This smells to high heaven.

[Donnat]

I am glad this failed and hope it is NEVER passsed. It's a transfer of our wealth (what little remains) to Bush's fat cat friends and special interests. It's obvious from the way they peddled it and the conditions they demanded (hand Paulsen a blank check and ask NO questions) that it would NOT benefit the guy in the street (not Wall Street) IMO, it was the last raid on the treasury that Bush could accommodate. The middle class is going to suffer no matter what happens, I think it's only fair to drag the guilty parties down with us. NO BAILOUT! EVER!

[Jeronimo Dan]

First off we didn't put Republicans in office. Republicans believe in small government and very little spending.
Bush/Cheney believe in big government and big spending. They believe in taking care of the big money people and sure don't care about the small working man and woman.
We can look back and say, well that was a mistake...but it's a little to late now, realizing we voted a evil idiot into the oval office.

[Mac]

The modern Democratic Party was born split -- between the Dixiecrats and the Northern pro-union faction.

[Bert.]

I am half inclined to agree with Jack Thompson - but only half: the other half is the inextricable connection between the Bush dynasty and Wall Street banking.

The Bush dynasty is a head mix of oil; banking and Washington that goes back at least to great grand pappy Samuel as a small arms procurement officer for the DoD. Grand pappy (Prescott) was an account manager for Brown Brothers Harriman banking group on Broadway and later Wall street.

As Tarpley and Chaitkin put it in their biography of Bush 1 he was born in a bank.

Bush is trying to get his own Kennybunkport/Jupiter Island pals out of the mess they have created for themselves.

Bert.

[Wallace Brand]

When the Main Stream Media focus on the Democrats who caused the financial disaster, if they ever do, the Republicans will be in good shape. Why aren't Raines, Gorelick and Johnson in jail, just as the Enron fraudsters, rather than advising Obama's campaign?

[LBS]

"Now they have once again confused talk radio with reality."

Reality is talk radio represents the real America. Talk radio is the heartbeat. The pulse. The insight. The wit. The seer of truth and justice.

"Borders. Language. Culture."

1. Secure US borders against illegal immigration that is destroying our US economic base. Why let illegals and other "unqualified" persons buy houses when they can't pay their mortgages?

2. Language. English is the language of the land. Learn it and become an American. Why do people come to the USA? For cash and prizes? Without heart and soul you have no nation. Language is the core of national identity.

3. Culture. US is based on Judeo / Christian ethics. We welcome Muslim and other faiths but will never live under Sharia law.

You think it's cool to sellout your country. Remember people have died for your right of free speech. Free Expression. Talk radio represents the expression of free speech in action. And you want to silence free speech? What if you were not allowed to publish as a writer because your opinions were too against the grain? Culture.

Bring your life to America, but become an American first.

[Some Guy]

Let's be thankful to the 95 democrats who voted to kill this asinine attempt to rob us all. They did the right thing in the face of massive pressure from their party.

[Sam H]

re Justin Rudd

Questions:

1) Remember the difference between commercial banks and investment banks and hedge funds. Why should we bail out those investment banks and hedge funds whose wealth essentially consists of a series of gambles that paper two or three times removed from any tangible asset would prove to be a good investment.

Instead why don't we bail out pension funds (both public and private) and homeowners that are caught up in this mess instead of criminally reckless banks. Why not simply cancel all speculative financial instruments that are not directly tied to some asset? To put this in perspective, there the stated value of all the derivatives in the world equals more than all of the tangible assets on earth (the derivatives cannot really be worth so much since they have no inherent value). If they all disappeared at the same time for everyone then technically no one will have lost anything because wealth is relative and everyone will be in the same position relative to each other that they were before. Except for those who didn't own or have retirement money invested in any fancy securities (i.e. just under 50% of the population), they would be better off (not to mention their interest in the government not incurring more debt on their behalf). And except of course for those companies and speculators whose major contribution to the economy is buying and selling derivatives such as CDOs and credit default swaps, but they aren't directly connected to the productive economy so who cares if they disappear. (I mean did G-sax invest heavily in any kind of tangible productive industry?)

They made money from gambling that they can continue to fraudulently push investment in opaque and risky derivatives that have a tenuous link (at best) to tangible assets. In the long run, such a practice doesn't produce anything except a couple of big winners and a lot of losers, which is what ends up happening with any Ponzi scam.

2) There is no liquidity crisis, there is a crisis of faith. Banks don't trust each other and they are hoarding cash. Why would these banks not just hoard any cash that comes from the Fed? Further, there is no way to tell how many of the assets are bad so how will we know when all the "counterfeit" currency is out of the system? And if we don't know, at what point will banks start lending? And by the time we figure it out, will the culprits still be around to prosecute and disgorge their profits (that they haven't squandered), or will they be living like pharaohs in a country without an extradition agreement with the US?

Why not just pass a law that requires banks to continue lending? That sounds crazy, but not much more than the mainstream solutions presented to us by the government and Wall Street types (think Paulson).

[AngryPatriot]

Add one more rat to the list of traitors of this great nation.. David Brooks.. Trying to totally obscure the discussion by bringing in partisan politics one more time..

Republicans didn't cause this 'problem'.. why should any Republican take the blame for this?

We have to get rid of this rat infestation and start fresh..

Let this Wall Street CASINO tumble..

[Magnus Göller]

Republicans: So what? Democrats: So what? They both sold out the American people to the core. That the two are there is just for the farce of faking democracy: It's kleptocracy, and meant to be that.

[beerBoy]

google neoliberalism for a definition.

Broadly speaking, neoliberalism seeks to transfer control of the economy from state to the private sector.[3] The definitive statement of the concrete policies advocated by neoliberalism is often taken to be John Williamson's[4] "Washington Consensus", a list of policy proposals that appeared to have gained consensus approval among the Washington-based international economic organizations (like the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank). Williamson's list included ten points:

* Fiscal policy discipline;
* Redirection of public spending from subsidies ("especially indiscriminate subsidies") toward broad-based provision of key pro-growth, pro-poor services like primary education, primary health care and infrastructure investment;
* Tax reform – broadening the tax base and adopting moderate marginal tax rates;
* Interest rates that are market determined and positive (but moderate) in real terms;
* Competitive exchange rates;
* Trade liberalization – liberalization of imports, with particular emphasis on elimination of quantitative restrictions (licensing, etc.); any trade protection to be provided by law and relatively uniform tariffs;
* Liberalization of inward foreign direct investment;
* Privatization of state enterprises;
* Deregulation – abolition of regulations that impede market entry or restrict competition, except for those justified on safety, environmental and consumer protection grounds, and prudent oversight of financial institutions; and,
* Legal security for property rights.
(from wikipedia)

[Neal]

I am just an ignorant american, what I know about high finance is zilch. So why should I be able to decide who is at fault, let alone back seat drive a solution? However, I am delighted that we may have a VP who is not part of the Washington D.C. establishment, new blood! All of the liberals think Obama walks on water. Birds of a feather flock together, and look at his buddies in the past and present, disgusting, some even enemies of our country.

[Ben]

"and a naive response from Main Street to life's realities."

Or perhaps Main Street is waking up to the realization that we don't need these clowns and their "Dog/Pony '08" slapping contests.

[An Independent American]

The New York Times misses the point as usual. As NYT is representative of the Plutocracy- left and right- that is to be expected.

The people have spoken. They said NO.

Ignoring the public again will result in the demise of both parties, just as it has meant the demise of the New York Times. (Most Americans have increasingly voted NO at the kiosks to Brooks and his jingoist NYT corporate paymasters. They are dwindling into irrelevance.)

Let the Plutocrats have the market and moral correction they have earned. Good riddance to all of them.

[LZ]

Both parties are the ones that have strayed from limited government and sound money (Gold and Silver) as mandated by the U.S. Constitution. In voting in The Federal Reserve Act, and supporting it ever since, they have destroyed America in favor of an elite banking cartel made up of "The Money Trust"... that is, The Morgans, Schiffs, Warburgs, Rothchilds, Rockefeller's and other's. Ever since then, all we have had is Booms, and Busts and ever increasing UNCONSTITUTIONAL military action abroad!

AMERICA, you lost your representative government in 1913. Now you are about to lose your country as the Fed hyper-inflates us towards a North American Union and its' common currency, The Amero.

The demise of both parties will be the result. Hopefully America has enough fortitude to hold the guilty accountable and return to a Constitutional form of Government WITH SOUND MONEY!

[Dieter P]

I used to be an officer in a well respected Democrat Political Action Committee. I was a Democrat until I grew up and saw with my own eyes how party insiders have used the Democratic party for their own purposes of financial gain and control. I saw it with my own eyes!

The level of disconnection from the general populous and ideological ignorance is astounding. They will tell you that if you disagree with them that you are a racist. They will twist data and facts to impress upon you their will so that they can gain more power and control, in the end you (the tax payer) are left paying for it.

Don't believe me? Look at history over the past 60 yrs. The last great Democrat president was Roosevelt, and even he gave grave warnings about the socialistic government intervention, which he helped create.

[KeVeterin]

LAWhite,

Have you not noticed that the GOP is actually the party of big government and socialism (for the wealthy)?

The last three Republican Presidents have left office with HUGE deficits and an irresponsibly run up debt.

Clinton left with a budget surplus!

Open your eyes!

[John P. Dunn]

There isn't A Republican party, there are several, vying for the right to speak for the party. The Republican party has been coming apart at the seams for some time now and the latest crisis may be the one that splits them all. Some people will mourn that. Others will be glad to see the party finally die. It's been on life-support for some time now.

[The Tourist]

Some commentators have pointed out that the credit freeze has become SO SEVERE that car purchasers are being required, in some instances, to make some kind of contribution towards the cost of the car. Wow!

Doesn't that just tell you how divorced from reality the US has become?

I would vote against this bill if I had a vote. Everyone needs to come back down to earth. Santa Claus doesn't actually exist you know.

[M A]

Hurray

[Rach]

You blame the republicans because you want to. The Dems are the majority and can pass any bill they choose if the can agree with each other. They didn't so it failed. Could it be that all the no votes on both sides were actually listening to the will of the people?

[Anti-Israel]

Only socialism can save this world. Forget about who are scared of socialism. I welcome Socialism of the XXI Century !! Capitalism is dead, period !!

[Bill]

The longer politicians are in office, the more arrogant and full of themselves they become. Term limits would help Congress become much more productive and would help eliminate their self-serving motives. So much of how they think and vote on issues is determined not by what they know is right, but whether it will affect them being re-elected. What a sad state of affairs this country is in. Are we in the beginning stages of the Fall of the Empire. The terrorists of 9/11 came to destroy our country's economic structure. Instead our Democratic and Republican politicians have done a better job of it!