Why I am sure that the Mandelson story is true

This morning the Sunday Times leads their paper with this:

Peter Mandelson “dripped pure poison” about Gordon Brown into the ear of a senior Conservative just weeks before his extraordinary cabinet come-back, it was claimed last night.

The paper also contains Mr Mandelson's response:

Last night Mandelson denied he had criticised Brown. “It is a totally baseless piece of fiction made up in the Tory party propaganda unit,” he said.

This is, how shall I put it, a remarkably firm denial in the circumstances. Because for my part I am as certain as I can be that this story is true.

I happened to talk to the top Tory involved within a few hours of the reported conversation. The person recounted the conversation to me in outline but confirming that Mr Mandelson had been extremely critical of the Prime Minister.

And here's the thing. At the time it was told to me as an amusing and unsurprising anecdote. It didn't have any real political edge because their relationship was known to be bad. So I am sure that the conversation took place.

I must say - and how naive is this - that even after everything, I find the terms of Peter Mandelson's denial pretty shocking.

Comments

[grumpy old man]

Knowing as we do, Mandy's attitde to truth, (Truth is what I say it is), you shouldn't be at all surprised.

[Keith]

Any one who believes one word of anything that Mandelson says is quite clearly deluded.

[Davido]

Get on with some journalism rather than stirring.

[ACT]

But of course you find the "the top Tory involved" telling you the details of *his* conversation with Mandelson an entirely unremarkable event. What wonderful friends you have.

[normann]

I am not surprised about Mandelson, the Fellow of the College of Spin Doctors denying what he said to this top Tory, who we can guess. The next few months should be interesting when he sidelines the Brownites in one way and Blairites the other way. I get the feeling that Darling will feel Mandelson's heat first as he tries to 'put his input to the monetary and fiscal policies'in the interest of business and the financial stability. Interesting to see the duo of Brown and Mandelson asking the voters to trust their 'experience' against the 'lightweights'!

[Gooey Blob]

Does anybody seriously believe a word that this Machiavellian operator says? Whatever he says, you can pretty much take the opposite as the gospel truth.

In appointing him, I cannot help feeling that Gordon has made a terrible miscalculation.

[Malcolm Redfellow]

Is this journalism? Is this worthy of the Finkelstein we know and love?

How should we regard any story which is told by the acquaintance of an acquaintance? If Finkelstein is sure of his "facts" (and there doesn't seem to be a smigeon of one in this story) let's have names and dates -- or some combination of circumstantial evidence.

Put up or shut up?

[Jeremy Poynton]

Blood will be spilt. And poor little Eddie Balls; who loves him now?

[Jeremy Poynton]

My bet is on Alan Duncan. Whoever it was, thanks for spilling the beans anyway, as it is a matter of national concern that a man known to be corrupt could be in such a position of power.

Cabinet? Nope. Politburo.

[Marek]

It makes one wonder whether the incompetence of Brown's first year as PM did have have the saving grace of being honest ineptness.

[dave]

Luckily the present problems of the credit crunch of giving mortgages to people who lie on the applications has no bearing on the mincing slime that rule us.
His experience will be irrelevant and sniffing the Brown shows the PM for what he is.Stupid.With Mandy we would be better off tossing a coin,as they say.

[David]

Didn't take long for the first lie to appear then. Good start Eh!

[Top Tip]

Da Fink,
I think you and Matthew Parris should have some form of sweepstakes to find out what un/likely stories are likely to come to fruition over the next year..

1/ Coup attempt by the likes of John Cruddas / John McDonnell.

2/ Coup attempt botched as word of the miscreants reaches 'Mandy's ears' just after the first stirrings, and before the loyalty of the mutiny can be assured..

3/ Mandy pushes for Ed Miliband to be elevated to Home Secretary so Jacqui Smith can be ditched.

4/ Gordon does a 'back me or sack me' speech, egged on by Mandelson to 'clear the air' and put to rest 'leadership speculation'..

5/ David Miliband is encouraged to run by disaffected Blairites..

6/ Ed Miliband is encouraged to run by 'Mandy Operatives' working outside Number 10.

7/ Brown has far less support than he envisaged. Damaging stories start to appear about David 'boy wonder' Miliband from 'senior sources' but without having any basis in truth..

8/ Ed is told that unless he swears undying loyalty to the 'Prince of Darkness', a similar thing may just happen to him. And in case the top job will never be his without the support of the evil troika of Mandy, Dolly Draper and Alistair Campbell...

9/ Blunkett pulls out of race for the PM, telling all his supporters to vote 'Ed the Ted'..

10/ Ed Miliband is the new Prime Minister, and he immediately suspends Government, abolishes the Monarchy, and installs Tony Blair as 'El Presidente', the life-long Head Of State, from whom he will 'totally indepenent, yes sirree..'

[Cllr Ken Tiwari (ndependent)]

I must congratulate the Journlist-
writer for this column, how nicely
you twisted the political language,
by turning words of-
fellow politician in to a malicious
gossips; "Dripped poison in ear"?

The financial crisis, world wide is no joke, protecting up to £50Th
may not be enough, the biggest item
in our life is mortgage, then saving
and businessess?

[Mike]

Mandy is associated with deceit in the same way as fish is associated with water.
Come the day he is buried, Mandy is so crooked he'll have to screwed into the ground.

[Frith Lane]

I am really glad that Mr Brown brough back Peter Mandleson. It will hasten the demise of both of them. The only thing is that they may take the country down with them.

As for a denial, they are politicians; people who lie for a living. What is new about his lies now?

Time for a change. Lets have an election

[Mandy watcher]

"Peter Mandelson “dripped pure poison” about Gordon Brown "

and then, true to form, denied he had done so.

Elsewhere Mandelson is being compared to a scorpion. But it's worth remembering, as this shows, that scorpions are invertebrates. They're spineless.

[Peter]

This is relevant because it highlights Mandelson for what he is. And how predictable that he now denies it, and blames the Conservatives for stirring. Stirring what? The truth. Good on them. It also exposes the sham of all this nonsense about being joined at the hips. P'lease!

[Alfred T Mahan]

Don't underestimate Mandy. But equally don't underestimate the anger of the British people at having a crook and liar foisted on them for the third time, and given a peerage to boot. It stinks.

[Tom Howard]

So today Darling comes out & defends the independence of the Bank of England - pressure must be mounting for a rate cut from a certain new arrival & with the ECB likely to make a modest cut at best, Sterling looks finished - every forex trader will short it!

Experience? Imagine a restaurant group, where the food is so bad that customers are leaving by the drove, but at the AGM the board tells the shareholders, that they are the only ones fit to run the group as they are the only ones with experience of the business. It would be a LOL if it wasn't so serious.

Finally expect that serial incompetant Ian Blair to turn up somewhere.

[A Tillotson]

Mandelson has been ousted from the government twice for dubious practices how long will it be this time before he damages the government's already poor reputation further?

[Richard]

This is Mandy's cunning plan. He knows that the best route to the corporate gravy train is a Peerage and that if he'd waited out in Brussels until his job ended he could have missed the opportunity to get to the Lords and then into countless boardrooms and speaking slots. He's back pulling the strings for his own ends.

[kevinD]

every civil war needs a forlorn hope

[David Ashton]

I believe Mandy gave the name away to Adam Boulton this morning. It was George Osborne.

[Steve]

Jeremy Poynton, your "money is on Alan Duncan"? Would you like to share with us the reason why you suspect Duncan? Or is this based on no more than a hunch that "gays obviously stick together"?

[mitch]

Back a day and he is at it already this should be fun watching nulab finally implode.

[Matt]

"I did not have verbal intercourse with that Tory."

Sounds sort of familiar, doesn't it?

[Matt]

And look! The Rabid Rebuttal Farce is in full swing! Well done, lads!

Incidentally, does it matter to you that you don't believe what you are posting?

[Harlan Leyside]

We're sick of all this anonymous rot. Put up or shut up; which is what Mandy is saying. This is a non-story: "dripped poison". Is that it? Not even a single quote? It indeed has no "political edge". Mandy has treated it with the utter contempt it deserved, for if it was true the sources should reveal themselves.

[Robert Boyd]

It's Mandy making the denial,for goodness sake!Very trustworthy indeed.

[Gerard Mulholland]

All your story shows is that Mandelson's capacity for self-deception knows no bounds. Quite clearly Brown knows that the game is up the day he calls the election. He's settling old scores while he still can. He has taken this heaven-sent opportunity offered by the global economic crisis to shaft for ever in the pages of history his oldest and worst political enemy. Mandelson in his arrogance has taken the poisoned chalice. But in fact it is he, not Brown, who has now taken personal responsibility for all UK business, trade and industry at the very beginning of what promises to be the worst recession in history! It is quite staggering that he has volunteered for the total collapse of the UK economy and society to be laid by the history books at his door, all-time record bankruptcies, home repossessions and unemploymentwill be his fault and nobody else's! What a fool! Nice one Gordon! I love it! I love it!

[George Garland]

What an appalling piece of pro Tory propaganda by, mark you, three journalists. An inspirational decision by Brown to re - invigorate government and suddenly the Sunday Times has had a conversation with a nameless senior Tory. Of course presumably they decided not to publish the startling and poisonous revelations immediately because they also knew of the plans to bring back Mandelson!
The sad fact is that the Sunday Times seems to have a direct line to Conservative Central Office and is impervious to the view that it is not sycophantic to write a fair portrait of politicians and their achievements

[larainebates]

Whether he did or didn't is neither here nor there. Fact remains, on a temorary Euro Visa, we find Mandy "permanently hired" and elevated to do mischief to our lives - in the Upper House. And.. with his "track record" for honest broker!!! Brown is clearly barking: NOBODY, BUT NOBODY IS "impressed".Moreoever, the country is SICK OF ALLEGED REPRESENTATIVES FOCUSING ON THEIR OWN DAMNED CAREER MOVES. Disgusting

[Keith]

This gets better and better. I give it about 4-6 weeks before the implosion. It's gonna end in tears...tee hee.

[john]

Busted twice for dishonesty and now considered fit for office again.
Ditto Blunkett.
How do young ambitious Labour MPs feel about being overlooked, particularly when they will probably lose their seats 2010?

[Dan]

Oh my god, please, we're adults. Either name the Tory, or STFU. (google it).

[steve]

Well the EU mep gravy train will soon end,for him anyway,now he is back on the cabinet,this will be Gordon Brown,s downfall,he may have taken the poison chalice,but the poison is not potent enough,it beggars belief.

[Jonathan]

You can tell when he is lying because his lips move. This morning he told Adam Boulton he was and 'always have been' Labour. Except of course when he was the commissar of the Hampstead YCL.

[David]

A perfectly legitimate piece of journalism, and no surprise there.

The first time I saw Meddlesome interviewed in the 90's, I shuddered, for here was someone who was convinced they could persuade you that black was white. A very dangerous man.

Fortunately, he will eventually overreach himself, and his 3rd fall will be spectacular!

[Dirty Euro]

It is important to remember the tory spin dcotor was removed from a newspaper that been bugging royalty. So the tory spin machine can be devious too, and spread lies etc: Be realistic both parties spin hard.

[Expat. Cheshire]

Lies, damned lies and what Mandelsonsays

[DaveD]

Mandy is associated with deceit in the same way as fish is associated with water.
Come the day he is buried, Mandy is so crooked he'll have to screwed into the ground.Posted by: Mike | 5 Oct 2008 12:57:01

"he'll have to screwed into the ground" ? Unfortunate turn of phrase...The mind boggles

[Peter Grimes]

The orchestrated chorus from NuLabor supporters (apparatchiks?) on here is risible.

Just ask yourselves WHY Finkelstein should lie about this, and compare with Mandy's oft-acknowledged mendacity.

[Man in a Shed]

Godless socialists see nothing wrong in lying, indeed since the end justifies the means they are fine doing it.

For understanding their denials and mock personal outrage see above.

[david]

the chance is there for osborne to show the british people that the first time the new mandy speaks to the british people ... he lies by denying the story go for him

[Top Tip]

Great to see that Peter 'bilduberg' Mandelson is sufficiently rattled to be threatening 'tit4tat' escalation.

If the cap fits..

[Victoria]

It was George Osborne. He was on one of the Sunday programmes positively squirming with joy at being the school sneke. Little toad.

By the way, why do the Tories here pile so much loathing on Mandelson? He's the original - your Mr. Cameron is the disciple. They even sound the same! The only difference is that Cameron didn't have to borrow to buy his expensive Notting Hill house.

[Jonathan Gee]

wow .. is this the first time a rat has been seen to be joining a sinking ship??

[mike isaacs]

Nick Clegg has also confirmed that Mandelson rubbished Gordon Brown to him - perhaps George Garland will comment on whether this is also an "appalling piece of Tory Propaganda"?

[MikeD]

The only difference is that Cameron didn't have to borrow to buy his expensive Notting Hill house
Victoria | 6 Oct 2008 17:43:41

I seem to remember that Mandelson did not actually buy his either someone assisted with a few hundred thousand which he inadvertently forget to mention to the Building Society (as you do)this causing his first resignation(or was it his second? hard to keep track really)in the first place.
While were on houses I understand Mandy owns a very expensive 2.4 million pound house in London I wonder how? Is Camerons worth that much?.
Nice to see good socialist qualities coming to the fore and thats Before we get onto Blairs 6 houses and even Tessa Jowell forgetting mortgage applications and Prescott lives in a Castle oh dear me the list is endless. I wonder what Glenrothes makes of it all but I am sure we will shortly find out don't you?
The problem with Labour is any argument is very selective but I don't think we will forget black Monday 6th October 2008 the biggest fall on the stock exchange ever and lo and behold under a Labour government. Before the common mantra is stated that it all started in America well we don't believe that either.

[Susannah]

I for one believe that Mandelson. "dripped pure poison."
However it's not about who said what to whom, or even what's good for Britain...it's all about Mandelson and his wish to be a LORD.
Makes a mockery of Britain when these creeps, ie LORD Ahmed. LORD Archer, LORD Robertson, LORD Levy to name just a few, are bestowed with a British Title.

[Tom Jemesek]

And the top Tory's name is???????

[Nimrod]

Labour is in a shambles, but the Tories are no better, and frankly would be making just as much of a horlicks of things if they were in power. The world economy is in meltdown, and instead of engaging in the debate and coming up with something constructive, George Osborne - despite striving to be this country's Chancellor - somehow sees it as a more productive use of his time to deal in personalities and political gossip.

Frankly Cameron needs a bit more than "I'm a man with a plan". Blair may have placed an over-emphasis on presentation, but he never came out with anything as vacuous as this.

[DisgustedDorothy]

And just how long does it take to say ,' Mandelson dripped poison about Brown' ?
Not long at all !
Back at the drawing board I hope the Tories, the Liberals , the SNP and the Greens play their cards very close to their chests as NuLabour are adept at pinching ideas ,indeed ,have to since they have none of their own.

[Arthur]

Just shows how off message New Labour are, bringing this egomaniac back to the camp; they've just hammered another nail in their own coffin.

Finkelstein - if you are surprised by Mandleson's deceit then you shouldn't really be in journalism should you! You'd be more suited to a role as a deputy librarian in some remote town in the back of beyond.

As an aside, the funny thing is that they are also looking to Alistair Campbell now - do they have any idea of how much the ordinary british person detests this twerp - a man arrogant enough to think that he had the credentials to give the 2005 British Lions a team talk. I am afraid I boycotted the Times Sports section whilst he bored us rotten with his opinions on the 100 greatest sportsman of all time. Shame on the Times for employing a man who played such a dirty game in respect of Iraq (he has the blood of British soldiers on his hands).

[Mrs Trellis]

I'm waiting with baited breath to hear what Mandy's title is to be..any suggestions???

Mrs T

[David Farmer]

It is a good job Mandelson did not have his kidney stone emergancy around here as our nearest A&E is approx a 20 mile radious away, and as was announced a few weeks ago by his college Alan Johnson the A&E at Chase Farm Hospital is to be cut back the pain this minister had to bare, which I can vouch is an exteme one, comparable to child birth I am told, would have been agonising for over an hour if he had the miss fortune of having this come on in this part of Hertfordshire!! Look again at Chase Farm!?!

[maggie millington]

Disgusted Dorothy, that is exactly why Cameron is not producing his ideas, those who keep criticising him for having no ideas, are pretty short sighted in my view.

[P Jordan]

Why so much surprise after all a week in politics is a long time.
More to the point is he needed a Job.
From Browns point of view he can at least keep an enemy close to him and tied by Cabinet responsibility.
Mandy will be found out for what he is given time, he always does.

[Mark]

I believe you, but...

Isn't it a bit greasy... a close friend of the NuLabour-hating Thatcherites using a blogspot on his rag to needle the opposition?

eww

[Alan Gourlay]

Osbourne keeps telling us that he is working hard to find solutions to, and support any ideas the government may have to correct the current financial plight the country faces.
According to Brown Mandelson has been brought back because his expertise will help as well.
So it is all hands to the pumps and with Browns steady hand on the tiller we really don't have much to worry about?
What I find interesting is that the Osbourne/Mandelson meeting took place in the Greek Islands a couple of weeks ago, obviously while both were on holiday.
It would be interesting to know how much time these people are actually dedicating to protecting our mortgages, savings and jobs. My gut feel tells me not enough.

[chad gould]

Who could trust Mandelson,given his track record of spin.
Is he going to be Blair's "operative" inside the cabinet, whatever the outcome I for one will never even consider voting for Labour come the next election.
Never trusted Blair (B-liar anag.)or any of his cronies.

[Delphine]

But everything abaout Mandelson is pretty shocking.

[Marcus]

Should his name be Meddlesome? I wouldn't trust him even when I could see him. Here is another example New Labour showing it's sweeter side ....

[Mike]

What worries me most about this is that you would not think, for a moment, that the 'Top Tory' was a liar, would you?
Perhaps he's just utilising your naivety, or desperation to fill your blog, and ensuring that some gossip gets propagated to the mass of Tory drones?

Perhaps if one were to name names and let the source of this 'conversation' reveal their identity....it may not be so revered as a true and faithful rendition of an actual event.

Tory's aren't regarded, after all, as people who are allergic to lies, deceit and fraud, shall we say.

This is journalism? Blimey, no wonder the country is bankrupt.

[ACT]

And think how shocked you are now. Thank God for honest George, eh?