Lindsay Lohan, the porn star and the BBC

Over on BBC Three they have been counting down, absurdly, a list of the fifty most annoying people of the year.

One ahead of Vladmir Putin came Samantha Ronson, Lindsay Lohan's girlfriend.

And gay campaigner Peter Tatchell has objected. In an email he even introduced me to a new word "lesbophobic".

I rather think he has a point.

Mr Tatchell's suggestion that Ms Ronson and Ms Lohan shouldn't have been on the list need not be taken seriously. Because to take that seriously would be to take the list seriously, to take seriously the idea that the BBC had actually identified the top 50 annoying people and correctly ranked them in order of annoyingness.

And that would be ridiculous.

I do agree with him that comments made by DJ Spoony (that "munters and mingers" can be left to each other, but hot girls should be reserved for men) were inappropriate. But I can sort of see why they left it in, regarding it as a risque joke.

The contribution of the revolting Ron Jeremy (who was captioned "Porn Legend"), however, certainly should not have been aired.

Commenting on why he liked lesbians he said that you could leave them to it while you got a sandwich. Then you could come back, go with one, then go with the other and then "you go pop".

He then added helpful advice on etiquette should you ever be with Ronson and Lohan or other lesbians:

The correct thing to do is to go pop on both of them. You shouldn't show partiality in a threesome.

Tatchell correctly argues that this was needlessly offensive, crude and misogynistic. I don't think the BBC should have aired it.

Comments

[Guido Fawkes]

Splendid bit of keyword stuffing a.k.a. Google whoring. Should do traffic wonders, I doff my cap.

Incidentally, Ron Jeremy is a legend.

[CF]

But thanks for sharing it in full with any of us who were lucky enough to have missed the original.

[Nasa]

What is bbc3 ?

[Kieran]

The BBC made a program like that? If they're turning into channel 5, I want my licence fee back!

[Eutere]

Has Peter Tatchell got nothing else to do but decide on which non-PC comment can be taken as a joke and which can't? Perhaps he should talk to more lesbians - because I didn't take offense, I thought it was hysterical - he was clearly making a joke! *sighs and shakes head*

[A viewer]

I am very glad that The Times has brought this to my attention.

I didn't see this as I don't watch BBC 3. Do you have the video to post on the homepage so that we can see it in full?

Rest assured I am wholly outraged that the BBC has done this. I intend to complain immediately.

[Maria]

You can always change the channel if it is not for you....

[J.Thomas]

Incidently, I found Mr Jeremy's comments most helpful, on an issue of great confusion. Thanks to the BBC for airing the advice of this expert in his field on the matter of bedroom etiquette pertaining this much sort after situation.

[Bob]

Bored are you?
Stop trying to make a story out of nothing.
Bad joke? maybe.
Misogynistic? No.
Do we need to turn every joke on the BBC into another Brand style affair?

[Triffid]

Can the author and Peter Tatchell both please get a life (and leave the rest of us alone ?)

[Jen]

Why are the homosexuals so po faced about themselves? 'GAY' is the word they chose for themselves, 'out and proud', so they are joyful and want their sexual habits publicised, that indeed is their identity.
So why does Mr Tatchell take the homosexual thing so seriously and sanctimoniously? The new morality is becoming very very oppressive.

[Andrew Corr]

I'm not sure about the other people mentioned in this article, but I would like to defend Ron Jeremy.

I think that perhaps Ron Jeremy saw the absurdity of the subject, as his response was completely absurd.

But then again, he is a porn hero, and we should not discount the wisdom he imparted, no doubt based on his many years of experience in going pop on many lesbians/lesbian couples faces.

[LS]

They shouldn't have aired it, but not because it was offensive; Jeremy's comments just weren't funny. I guess they were running short of decent material. These BBC 3 shows merely demonstrate the contempt in which the company holds its twentysomething viewers.

[sedgwick]

"Peter Tatchell has objected" blimey that's a surprise...the man 'objects' for a living....professional outrage can earn you good money.

[mumoftwo]

I guess it comes down to whether they were just on the most annoying list for being a lesbian (as opposed to being annoying and a lesbian, much as John Barrowman is annoying and gay). If that's the case, it is offensive.

[G Conn]

Great Story .
But what does "go pop" mean ?

[dan]

surely the most offensive thing is the proliferation of these 50 best/worst/hottest/coldest/crappest tv programmes that wheels out an endless combination of PR hungry nobodies, celebrity big brother wannabe's and the occasional shock value contributor. It seems to me that if Peter Tatchell and the author have nothing better to do than complain about the humourous description of human ejaculation in a consenting act of coitus between adults then they should lay down their arms and cease doing battle on behalf of the morally indignant because they've missed the point.

[Henk Jansen]

Don't you British have a sense of humour any more?

[Alex]

If his comments were so offensive, why are you giving them more airtime/Googlespace by repeating them in full?

[Dicky Cooper]

Just think how offensive we could be if we just avoid sexuality, One day and this day is not far off, we will have to start insulting people by using pin point direct and very personal descriptions of the person's very core being.
We won't be able to describe people using the social groups that the people in question openly and proudly belong to, we will have to describe them in other ways,

"creepy addict geek cradle snatching disc jockey" was just one politically correct description I thought of. It could also be used to describe Chris Evans so no one can be offended (just don't mention the ginger hair, they have rights too!)

[Nadia]

Have I missed something here? What exactly is supposed to be the big deal about Jeremy's comments? Hardly earth shattering stuff now, is it?

[John]

Is the Telegraph really paying you to think about such rubbish?

[Tony]

The most hysterical thing I have read for a long time.

However, I agree with the comment on the essential "crapness" of these type of lists.

Ron Jeremy clearly has a fine sense of the absurd, but Peter Tatchell is in danger of becoming the Mary Whitehouse of the gay community.

The whole thing is beyond satire.

[Tom Taylor-Duxbury]

Not got a clue who these people are!
Damn I must be missing out.

Or not.

[Laura Roberts]

The real issue niggling Peter Tatchell about this is that he'd be lucky to find himself in a twosome, let alone a threesome.

[Alastair]

Pretty funny really! Shame UK's lost its sense of humour, proportion and irreverance though... Maybe Tatchell needs a "pop" eh? I'm sure Ron J could teach him a thing or two...

[JeremyinOZ]

Henk,

I'm afraid not.

[Simon]

Henk;
No, we don't.

Whining and bitching about our rights,whilst overlooking the concommitant responsibilities, has become the new national sport.

S,

[J. Leese]

In response to the comment from Henk Jansen, I'm afraid that in our land of new morality, we British are no longer allowed to have a sense of humour - Peter Tatchell and the government have banned it. (And if they did allow it, they'd probably tax it)

[John Dutton]

Is there a list of the fifty most annoying lists? Where is Bertrand Russell when we need him most?

[andrew]

No one complains when gay presenters / journalists jokingly bemoan the fact that a particular male celebrity is straight and / or seeing an aesthetically challenged girl. Why is this any different?

[Bill]

Ron Jeremy, revolting or not, is an expert. Serioulsy, can there be anyone with more experience of this sort of thing. If that's how he says it done he's probably right. I suppose it's like a soldier explaining how to kill, unpleasant perhaps, but if it's fatually accurate, how can it be offensive?

[John]

couldn't care less more important things going on.

[Rob Bain]

Don't you British have a sense of humour any more?

Posted by: Henk Jansen

In answer to that Henk, No, we have no sense of humour anymore, it's been pc'd out of us by professional objectors

[john]

Presumeably Peter "Everybody should be gay" Tatchell was on the BBC list of most annoying people. He ought to have a permanent residency on it!

[Stuart]

Which position did Peter Tatchell come in at? Err - perhaps I should rephrase that..

[Polly]

Andrew - I have never yet heard of an employment tribunal where a gay man has been harassed by a straight woman who was convinced she could 'turn' him. However if you cast your mind back to the widely reported case of the lesbian army officer recently - this was just the type of harassment she was subjected to by a senior officer.

This possibly indicates that a lot of men are completely deluded, however it's common harassment that lesbians experience. For instance I once had a drunken idiot shout at me on public transport "You're a lesbian, you're confused, you want cock". It seems (some) men are really, really so arrogant/stupid that they can't get their heads round the idea that lesbians don't fancy men. And the BBC isn't helping.

[kerry livermore]

Thatchell and Stonewall make good money objecting about homophobia or 'lesbophobia'; and then offering consultancy services to help organisations get rid of it. Stonewall in particular have made millions from the police and the army.

[Ron]

BBC bashing for the sake of it. BBC3 is a light channel. Get over it and move on.

[Dan Sweeney]

If everyone was gay (see above attributed to Tatchell) then would the straight minority have the protection of the PC brigade? I seem to remember one of the first sexual orientation (employment) cases at ET was by a straight woman who was verbally abused and harassed by gay colleagues at a nightclub. What moral High Ground?

[Mark B]

It's BBC 3, it's a joke programme and who the hell cares. Peter Tatchell was probably disappointed that he never made it on to the list. He'll definitely be on the next one.

[Leigh]

Many who bother to comment like to complain about what they call PC complaints. I think its too bad that you all use that term to simply shut down any criticism or dialogue whatsoever.
Lesbians get targeted with nasty comments like this all the time by men who either have a huge hateful problem with lesbians or with women and usually both.
You dont get it that sometimes this stuff is too hateful and deserves critiquing. I would not censor it. But the responses here show you people have no idea how close this stuff comes to feeling harmful and dangerous to us.... What do you think the four men who gang-raped the lesbian on a California street said to her. This sort of garbage.
So you are immune to this because it will not ever hurt you. Fine, but you could at least let those of us who feel more at risk because of it have our say.

[tete]

ron jeremy is not revolting at all. he is a likeable and polite guy really.this tatchell is a moron and finkelstein cannot be serious.

[Tom FD]

Far from the worst of the comments on this programme. Someone described Boris Johnson's speech on ping pong's origins in British culture as "racist".

Most of the rankings were just about understandable - this one was more about their relationship being phoney, and Ms Ronson's excessive media coverage despite her entire lack of contribution to the entertainment world, than any homophobic connotation.

But I'd never heard of the person who was ranked number one most annoying person 2008. Which was, er, annoying.

[oberkat]

To Dan Sweeney: "if everyone was gay". If that was so, then the human race would be extinct within a hundred years. Being anything other than 'straight' is an evolutionary dead end. No Tatchell, no BBC3, no problem.

[Fiona, London]

As long as people stop watching such garbage, they'll have to stop making it. I didn't catch this, because I don't actively seek out things to complain about. I realise I'm in a radical minority.

[Simon Cammies]

Leigh.

I couldnt agree with you more. 'PC' is a term used by people who think they represent the orthodoxy trying to enforce bigotry.

Racism, sexism, homophobia are all 'unPC', and womens rights and the abolition of slavery were 'PC' causes at one time.

Right wing ideology is PC to those who believe it.

[joe]

leigh - no doubt you will have experienced prejudice the majority of commentators including myself will never have experienced but it isn't only the anti-PC brigade which seeks to "shut down any criticism or dialogue". Anti discrimation / hate speech may protect vulnerable groups but it too protects those same groups from criticism that may sometimes be reasonable and necessary. With sexuality there is always a lot more going on than meets the eye. Usually all we get is propaganda from one side or another.

[Joe]

Is there such a thing as Tatchellophobia? Or is everyone doomed to having a "phobia" if they merely dislike something?

[Martin]

Australia has the top ten most poisonous species on Earth. They had the top eleven, but exported Peter Tatchell to the UK. Can't we send the little creep back?

[Ed Gallois]

Jeez Danny.

I subscribe to your posts on Journalisted because you are an original thinker and write about interesting things.

This is rubbish, however. I only hope you're being ironic because being offended by a porn star is stoopid.

Cheers,

Ed

[Martin]

Why is Lyndsay Lohan dating Griff Rhees Jones? I thought she was a Lesbian.

[fimetic]

Who is Lindsay Lohan? Who is Samantha Ronson? Who is Ron Jeremy?

[Frank Upton]

I hope Lindsay and Samantha are happy together and give each other plenty of love and support.

[Hol]

Gay people should be no more immune from a bit of light hearted lampooning/mickey taking than any other group (be it sexuality based, careers, religion, whoever). It's healthy for everyone to take a bit of satire; to label such things as malicious just desensitises us to true bigotry because we're all so exasperated at having every word out of our mouths decried as discriminatory. However, there is a definite line that shouldn't be crossed.

In this case, I'm not sure it was homophobisa - I just thought that the comments were cheap, puerile shots at two young women who were easy targets and not there to defend themselves.

[Alex]

Ahh, good old Peter Tatchell - the gay community's equivalent of the "community leaders" that we all get to read about whenever there's a story about religious fundamentalists. Tatchell is unwanted, unelected and generally useless. I also have yet to find any gay people who don't share this view.

Don't get me wrong, people who judge and discriminate against others on the basis of their sexual preferences are the lowest of the low scum who should be treated with the utmost contempt (sterilisation would be a good start so they can't bring children up to share their bigoted view of the world), but Tatchell puts up barriers at a time when we should be breaking them down. He's yet another one of these naive souls who thinks that ignorant people can have their prejudices forced out of them - they cant. If anything the rhetoric he employs only serves to make such people even more set in their ways.

Yet another waste of space idiot who's always claiming that something or other is offensive.

Were it not for her current deceased status and rabid homophobia, I'm sure Mary Whitehouse would have got on famously with him!

[Alex]

Leigh | 7 Jan 2009 17:47:34

Firstly, clearly the kind of men who gang rape anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation should not be allowed anywhere near decent society.

However, I really think you do need to get over yourself - the kind of men you refer to making hateful comments are ignorant fools, but that's their problem. All the while you choose to portray yourself as a victim, you will remain one.

[Craig]

Pop!

[Valerie Honderick]

Re: Comment by John: "Is the Telegraph really paying you to think about such rubbish?" - What, and then write about it in The Times? Does The Times have a similar program for paying Chief Leader Writers from other newspapers to mentate on such tricky points of political, social and sexual minutia? If so , may I submit some candidates?

[Mike]

There is no one way to Pop, to pop is the way...

[Helen]

"Thanks to the BBC for airing the advice of this expert in his field on the matter of bedroom etiquette pertaining this much sort after situation." J.Thomas, 6 Jan 09

And thank YOU, J. Thomas, (6 Jan 2009) for that pearl, which I have added to my collection.

[Verity]

I have an idea, if there is something on the TV or radio and you find it unfunny or offensive - put another channel on! We have hundreds these days.

I'm waiting for Top 50 Most Pointless Complaints!!

[PeteH]

The only thing that shouldn't be given any air time is Peter Tatchell.

[dan]

it's rumoured that you once you pop you can't stop.

[petro]

Who cares? No wonder that we're in economic crisis when people think that this sort of nonsense is worthy of news/comment. Celebrities... who needs them... about time they did real work to earn their money!

[Davey]

If Roger is reading this, can he pop the tea on, thanks, I'll be home in 20 minutes.

Oh, sorry...posted in the wrong blog.

Phhhtttt! Seriously though, can we move on now?

[sholto]

it was offensive because she was chosen not for what she says or does: she has no public profile. she was chosen because she is a lesbian. That is not annoying.

[AHunter]

This was linked from some thoroughly uninteresting article about a atheist-bus. I clicked, I read and wished I'd just checked my e-mail instead.

Or perhaps put the cat out. (Although I don't have a cat, but even pretending to put out my imaginary cat would have been time better spent.)

Ron Jeremy can say what he likes, he's earnt that. Lindsay Lohan is lame and her psuedo-girlfriend is lamer.

[Rbrto]

Rabble rabble rabble

[Tom]

I watched as Tatchell was slapped whilst protesting in Russia, and lost all respect for the man. His outrage at anything he considers anti-gay is very much OTT. He now comes across as a ridiculous man with nothing better to do then trawl for non stories. Get a life Pete!

[Robin Pearson]

Your newspaper becomes more worthless with every passing day!

[mark]

Ron Jeremy is a recognised professional rendering his professional opinion about his chosen specialism. Are we to silence such luminaries over some sense of fastidious distaste for some hardwired aspect of the human condition? I think not.

[Pete]

@ Sholto

She was selected for being part of a self-promoting, arrogant, immature relationship which comes across as a farce, not because she was a lesbian.

Ron Jeremy = Legend

[John]

It worries me how stupid people are becoming....the fact that some people who maybe gay or straight are complaining about this program is annoying as LL and samanatha are annoying for the reason pete mentioned above not because they are lesbains.....also what annoys me is how poeple like to generalise how "gays" all play the victim claiming every piece of banter is homophobic which is not true. I am gay and i never play the victim or complain even though in some more serious than this example situations i think i should but i am consious how annoying people find it when somebody gay gets all loud and proud and states they are being homophobic. But some things its hard to explain are hurtful for example when people use the term "thats gay" to condem something they dont like, more of an awkward feeling like i no they dont literally mean its homeosexual but it just dosent feel nice inside like that obviously stemed back from some homophobic slur, but i dont complain as if i did it would just segregate me more. There are so many people normally but not always white, lower middle class who just really want to be racist, homophobic bigots but cant because this PC supresses them so without PC there would be a lot more hate spread. Maybe not from the average blogger who rights mildly homophobic responces generalising all gay people to the 80's aids ridden stereotype but serious hate would be acceptable. It also annoys me that by gay people complaining of such non-offensive matierial it apperas to be creating more boundaries. Obviously when the jokes get crueler it isnt funny but this one albeit not funny isnt not funny because its homophobic.