Paganism without the blood

One of the good things about working on ancient “pagan” religion is that no one actually believes in it any more. (“Pagan” here is in inverted commas, of course, because it wasn’t a term people ever used of themselves: it was a term of semi-abuse from the Christian camp, and probably meant something like “hick” or “hillbilly”.)

It’s easy to debate paganism because you’re not always looking over your shoulder at a community of contemporary believers. Whenever I try to teach the “rise of Christianity” with a group of undergraduates – did economics underlie it? the institutional support of the emperor Constantine? – I’m always horribly aware that part of the group doesn’t really think it’s a question worth asking. For them the obvious reason that Christians won out against the pagans was that their religion was true. Simple as that.

In contrast, paganism is a teacher’s joy. You can dissect it as fiercely as you like. You can even claim that Zeus, Aphrodite and co. did not actually exist, without fear of being arraigned on a charge of incitement to religious hatred.

Or so I thought. But last week a group of modern Athenians, dressed in ancient Greek costume (so they claimed), descended on the Temple of Olympian Zeus in Athens, prayed to Zeus to bring about world peace and held a ceremony to celebrate the marriage of Zeus and Hera. A few months before they had gained official recognition as a religious organization from the Greek government.

At first sight not good news for me. But on closer inspection I needn’t have worried.

It isn’t entirely clear what this group (“Ellenais”) believes; but it is clear that, whatever they say, it bears very little relationship to ancient Greek religion. You can tell that already from the rather charming prayer to Zeus to bring about world peace. From an ancient point of view, whatever myths are peddled about the “Olympic Truce”,  there could hardly be a less likely divine candidate for putting a stop to war in the world.

So far as I can tell they have rather airy fairy ideas about living in tune with nature under the pagan gods (as well as asking Zeus for peace, they put in an additional pleas for rain) – again not something that bona fide paganism put much stress on.

More crucial though is what’s missing from this religious revival. True, the worshippers last week poured a libation of wine and incense over a copper tripod. But where was the animal sacrifice?

As almost everyone who studies ancient Greek religion insists, the key centre of the whole religious system was sacrifice: it was the ritual of killing and sharing the animal that was, if anything, the “article of faith” that defined the ancient community of worshippers. And it was through sacrifice (rather than ecology)  that ancient Greeks conceptualized their own place in the world – distinct from animals on the one hand and the superhuman gods on the other.

Until these eager neo-pagans get real and slaughter a bull or two in central Athens, I shan’t worry that they have much to do with ancient religion at all. At the moment, this is paganism lite.

Comments

[brad]

Let's remember blood sacrifice had to be the "right" sacrifice, performed by the "right" person in the "right" way at the "right" time and place. For the farmer this was not difficult, but in the cities there were ornate temples that had to be maintained. There was a whole class of people working in the temples who were not producing in the secular world. They relied on the laborers "sacrifices" to feed and clothe themselves. The poor brought their own animals, the rich purchased ones raised for the altar. Either way only small portions were used in the ceremony, the rest was used to feed the priests and their staff.

[jackee]

Yes these days we are not believe on god and going far from are religion. We drunk lots of wine and living in modern society with no time for pray and religion.

[Tony Francis]

Nick, nice run down of the philosophies. Look at the ascetics of Egypt, where there was a long tradition of holy men living an austere life in the desert, rejecting civilization. Also, examine the difference between Plato and Aristotle on the soul. Plato viewed the perfect, God-like soul as being trapped in an imperfect and corruptible body. They were in conflict with each other. Aristotle viewed the soul and body as being in hormony. His writings didn't influence Christianity until the Middle Ages. Jews in the eastern part of the Mediterranean had been Hellenized. One can find a lot of Plato in St. Paul. The east was largely Greek, and always considered Rome and the Latins inferior.

[nick]

If I were to take a snapshot of the philosophical and religious climate of Ancient Rome and Greece, Pythagoras and Apollonius of Tyana are great examples of philosophers who represent the climate of the era. It is pretty safe to assume that the three major influences on the philosophical teachings of Apollonius of Tyana were Pythagoras’s teachings, Zoroastism (due to his extensive travels in Persia) and the Indian Gymnosophists or Brahmans(which of the 3 has more of an influence is debatable).
The foreign influences explain his ascetic way of life and also his style of teaching and philosophical ideals. The philosophers of the day attempted to combine morality and the old religion, partly because of outside philosophies influencing their thought (Persian etc) and also because the people of the era wanted more than what they had with the old Gods. What I think Dr Beard was trying to say is that the attempted revival of the Ancient Gods falls very far short of the mark. If anything the display at the Acropolis falls so far short of anything resembling the old religion that the ancients would have scoffed at the display on the Acropolis. You can almost see Apollonius wondering what on earth are these people doing? The point of the matter is that the Greeks and Romans actively sought to enrich their understanding of the universe and questioned every aspect of the status quo. They were looking for more than the status quo. Their great men looked at the world similar in attitude to the great scientists of the early 20th century. They created new paths of understanding, methods of reason and sought after mathematical and scientific discoveries to enlighten their understanding of the universe. The replica amour wearing, toga clad people praying for world peace to Zeus on the Acropolis are as close to the glory and genius of the Ancient scholars and philosophers as a 2 year old is able to build and fly a Concord.
All may worship as they wish (we all are lucky in the UK to be able to worship as we please). But if you wish to follow the Greek aspect of the Ancient Religion I would recommend you follow your teacher Apollonius and spend some time in a Zoroastrian temple and visit India and spend some time with a guru. Don’t try to copy Apollonius- surpass him (an ancient Greek saying goes..if the teacher is better than his pupil after the lesson then change teachers…Rough translation). Then we might take the Greek pagan revival seriously, and you would have re-created the old attitude Apollonius, Socrates and Pythagoras once followed.

[Tony Francis]

Maior, Do you believe in the Pythagorean notion that the entire universe can be reduced to numbers?

[Maior]

Did Professor Beard ever hear of Pythgoras? or even Apollonius of Tyana. Neopythagorism was quite fashionable amongst the Roman elite: viz Nigidius Figulus, Vatinus, Sextus pythagoreus...

It's really quite absurd to think polytheists don't change over 2,000 years. None of us are Greek or Roman peasants; we're educated urbanites. Therefore we are more attracted to the philosophical understanding of religion. I'm a devotee of the gods and confirmed Pythagorean. No problem & I have examples thousands of years old.
Maior

[Tony Francis]

Nick, you might want to trace the concept of "natural moral law", which was a Persian idea (probably Zorastrianism). Alexander the Great brought back Persian philosophers who re-invigorated the Stoic schools. These then gave a philosophic basis to Christianity. They also influenced various pagans, such as Aurelius. It is questioned whether Aristotle believed in "natural moral law", or whether this is something stamped on him by Aquinas. Anyway, Aquinas quoted the Spaniard Isidore "Any civil law not made in accordance with natural moral law is no law at all." This is of some importance, since in modern societies, there is a trend to base laws on "rational" concepts, rather than "moral ones". Some good references are: E. Gilson "The Christian Philosophy of St. Thomas Aquinas", (traces the theology of Aquinas with the philosophy of Kant); Marcia Colish "Medieval Foundations of Western Intellectual Tradition 400-1400." Yale Press, 1997 (probably the best on the Stoics); Michael Grant "The World of Rome"; 1960; Lebreton and Zeiller, "The Emergence of the Church in the Roman Wolrd." Jacques Maritain, "An Essay on Christian Philosophy" trans. NY 1955; criticized in "Science and Wisdom" also by Maritain, 1940. Maritain can be a little hard to understand. But the question you raise about the emptiness of philosophy is seen in the story of Justin, who investigated all the philosophies, and found them wanting before becoming a Christian. Many of the websites on natural moral law are really poor. One has to hit the books to find it. It is never mentioned in US law schools. That is because of the secular bias. Another one to read: St. John Chrysostom: a blunter man never lived. Also, various translations of Aristotle: Nicomachean Ethics, Politics and Rhetoric.

[nick]

We all have a tendency to view our own religion through rose coloured glasses (I am no different). I am an orthodox Christian and as a Greek and armature historian find the new interest in Greece’s old belief both interesting and somewhat flattering. Greek paganism was heavily influenced by sacrifice and one only needs to read the Iliad and the mass of classical text to see how important it was to the old religion. The old faith in Greece died out simply in my opinion, because as individuals the ancient Greeks felt that the current religion at the time did not reflect the search which was underway for the true meaning of existence(I am not referring to Christianity when I say this) Aristotle Etc and the legion of philosophers current in classical Greece and Athens in particular searched for spiritual enlightenment through philosophy and discussion into the moral aspects of existence rather than faith in Zeus and Athena. During roman times the Roman Cult of Mithras for example offered a moral view to life and you need only read Marcus Aurelius’s meditations to look into the pagan heart and mind at the time to see that they were searching for a different path to the then status quo. Constantine might have used Christianity as a unifying force of the empire but he was sowing on fertile ground when he did so. Paganism was on the decline for a very long time when he recognized Christianity and the path to Christianity was effectively paved by the pagans them selves, by their classical search for the meaning of human existence (hence the popularity of Athens). Neo-paganism is in no way reflective of the old religion. They are pagan in the sense that they are now creating a separate faith to the established religions by taking bits and pieces of everything, Greek, Norse, Egyptian and Celtic.. mixing it in a pot and coming up with their own belief system and religion.

[guanhua88]

guanhua88
zgh1984@yahoo.com
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[David Bradbury]

I don't know whether or not Dr Stewart is right to assert that "classicists are more concerned with tenure and academic celebrity with [sic] truth". However, I bet most classicists know that the singular of "phenomena" is "phenomenon".

[kenneth macKillop]

Just having come from a long weekend Pagan conference, I read this thread w/ interest. Pagan Reconstructionism is taken very seriously by some people, and in certain contexts can produce stirring rituals regardless of whether a sacrifice was made. I personally have strong feelings about all the gods and their deleterious effect on humanity, and yet I see religionists of all stripes seemingly benefit from their devotions. For the time being, Asatru (Norse Heathens), Hellenistic and Khemetic (Egyptian) rites peacefully coincide in a well perceived opposition to the dominant monotheistic paradigm. How gracefully these groups will fare together when they start competing remains to be seen. Paaganism is said to be the fastest growing religion in America, and worldwide, the Charismatic strain of Christianity is said to be growing fastest. These religions fear one another more than Christians do Moslems. So however quaint they may seem in their funny costumes and historically questionable reconstructions, questions about public sacrifice may become heated debates about the religion that the State sponsors --- in America, as debates about the definition of marriage show, the ruling elite still plays to the narrow Christian perspective.

In the Bay Area, gay partnerships are a de facto right, and poly rights is the new frontier. That is a different thread, but is of interest to the Pagan community who generally reject State's marriage to the Christian majority.

[Christopher B. Stewart, PhD]

There are several neo-Pagan groups that do actively practice animal sacrifice. This "Hellenist" group may not be one of them, but they exist. For those who eat meat, this is a good idea that should be encouraged--we need to understand viscerally where our food comes from and we need to sacralize all cultural activities, including slaughter of food stock.

As a neo-Pagan, I feel that Pagan religion should proudly assert its newness and acknowledge that it borrows and appropriates. Most Pagans I know are not reconstructionists and know that they religion they practice originated in the 20th century. It can borrow what it likes and needs no authority to do so.

As a humanities scholar, I also caution against taking scholarly consensus as fact. Humanities scholarship is driven by theoretical fad and reverses itself generationally. Classicists are more concerned with tenure and academic celebrity with truth. As a phenomena, religion can be more understood by those open to its aesthetic and semiotic components and cannot be understood remotely or with non-participant distance. The opinions of non-practitioners about religions are, frankly, worthless. Humanities scholarship is more beholden to modern sensibility and dominant culture constructs, including the biases of the Christian lens and its false version of history, than are marginalized contemporary religions.

Ms. Beard probably just can't stand cultural "conservatives" who take the spirit of the word's meaning a little more seriously. The West's ancient culture is its own, morally, culturally and intellectually superior to the Christian and secular visions.

[Calixto]

Mary,
It wasn't Chesterton, but C.S. Lewis.

"Cliche Came Out of Its Cage"
You said 'The world is going back to Paganism'.
Oh bright Vision! I saw our dynasty in the bar of the House
Spill from their tumblers a libation to the Erinyes,
And Leavis with Lord Russell wreathed in flowers, heralded with flutes,
Leading white bulls to the cathedral of the solemn Muses
To pay where due the glory of their latest theorem.
Hestia's fire in every flat, rekindled, burned before
The Lardergods. Unmarried daughters with obedient hands
Tended it By the hearth the white-armd venerable mother
Domum servabat, lanam faciebat. at the hour
Of sacrifice their brothers came, silent, corrected, grave
Before their elders; on their downy cheeks easily the blush
Arose (it is the mark of freemen's children) as they trooped,
Gleaming with oil, demurely home from the palaestra or the dance.
Walk carefully, do not wake the envy of the happy gods,
Shun Hubris. The middle of the road, the middle sort of men,
Are best. Aidos surpasses gold. Reverence for the aged
Is wholesome as seasonable rain, and for a man to die
Defending the city in battle is a harmonious thing.
Thus with magistral hand the Puritan Sophrosune
Cooled and schooled and tempered our uneasy motions;
Heathendom came again, the circumspection and the holy fears ...
You said it. Did you mean it? Oh inordinate liar, stop.

2

Or did you mean another kind of heathenry?
Think, then, that under heaven-roof the little disc of the earth,
Fortified Midgard, lies encircled by the ravening Worm.
Over its icy bastions faces of giant and troll
Look in, ready to invade it. The Wolf, admittedly, is bound;
But the bond wil1 break, the Beast run free. The weary gods,
Scarred with old wounds the one-eyed Odin, Tyr who has lost a hand,
Will limp to their stations for the Last defence. Make it your hope
To be counted worthy on that day to stand beside them;
For the end of man is to partake of their defeat and die
His second, final death in good company. The stupid, strong
Unteachable monsters are certain to be victorious at last,
And every man of decent blood is on the losing side.
Take as your model the tall women with yellow hair in plaits
Who walked back into burning houses to die with men,
Or him who as the death spear entered into his vitals
Made critical comments on its workmanship and aim.
Are these the Pagans you spoke of? Know your betters and crouch, dogs;
You that have Vichy water in your veins and worship the event
Your goddess History (whom your fathers called the strumpet Fortune).

C S Lewis

[Ted Garvin]

Please don't feed the trolls.

[John M]

I officiated at the sacrifices to Apollo in Richmond Park in December (mentioned in the Guardian article at http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2003096,00.html). I should first say that we are a very informal network of UK-based Hellenic polytheists. Although we believe in the right to worship in ancient temple sites and morally support Greek groups in their efforts, we are not related to any of them.

There are two kinds of sacrifices: blood (the animal is slaughtered and then comsumed in a feast) and bloodless. It is true that the blood staining of the altar (haimassein) is sacred, but bloodless sacrifices were very common in ancient Greece, and in some occasions a clay version of the animal was offered. One of the reasons why we don't perform public blood sacrifices is that the vast majority of people today (especially "townies") are detached from nature. They are ok going to the supermarket and buying pre-packaged meat from animals that lived a cruel life and died an even crueller death, but they are completely distanced from the actual notion of slaughter and find it abhorrent. Sacrificing animals in central Athens or central London at this point in time would create a huge backlash and it would be too easy to use this against us.

I come from rural Greece, and my grandmother usually kills our dinner when I visit her. In our village dozens of lambs are slaughtered in the name of Jesus and spit-roasted every Easter Sunday, and cockerel sacrifice in the foundations of new houses is common. Remember the scene in the TV programme A Place In Greece, where the contractor asks the poor Brit to sacrifice one, "or there may be delays"? For other examples, cf. Dem. Petropoulos, "Survivances de sacrifices d' animaux en Grèce" in Papers of the International Congress of European and Western Ethnology Stockholm 1951. However even in these rural environments where people are used to killing animals, if you slaughter one mentioning Zeus, it's likely that someone will call the police.

It is not compulsory to offer blood sacrifices to the gods, and the vast majority of Hellenic polytheists do not want or cannot do it. Those who do, do it discreetly. Both approaches are equally valid.

In reply to the person who mentioned the hecatomb: it costs around £120,000, but next time we have 20,000 people over for dinner we'll seriously consider it.

[Trev Lindupp]

Rather an irony when Mary's books have helped {inadvertantly?} to my own following of paganism. Sorry but those ancients wrote so well i could'nt but not believe.
Was'nt Apollonius(of Tyana) another Pagan vegetarian.

[Mark Base]

It's no longer necessary to sacrifice animals to appease the gods.

I know this.

[Alexander]

There's a lot I could say, but most of it has already been said by several people here, so I shall hold my tongue and let Ovid, though he be not Greek, speak for me, "The same God who is propitiated by the blood of a hundred bulls is also propiated by the smallest offering of incense."

[Emperor Truth]

Sacrifice was certainly one aspect of paganism, but living in touch with the environment was another. The same was of course true of Judaism. Christinianity inherited its seasonal elements from both its Jewish father and its Pagan mother. That is why Christianity uses a solar calender.

The same is true of rebirth. Seasonality and rebirth go hand in hand of course and Christianity inherited its own festival of rebirth (Easter) from both Jewish and Pagan tradition. The Jewish Spring festival of rebirth and renewal (Passover) certainly bequeathed its legacy on Christianity - as did European paganism which gave Easter its name (from the German fertility Goddess Ostara).

Islam on the other hand is an artificially constructed religion that reverted to the lunar calender of the hunter-gatherer, rebelling against the solar calender of the farmer.

Islam is based not on God, but on "submission" to God. Christianity is based on acceptance of Jesus as an incarnation of God (a very Pagan concept). Islam is concerned as much with man's relation with his fellow man as with God - likewise Judaism.

Christianity is more concerned with man's relationship with the son of God than with his practice towards his fellow man. That is, Christianity mandates forgiveness, but does very little to proscribe that acts that would merit forgiveness in the first place.

In that sense Christianity is sinner-oriented. Thus it is not that Judaism (or Islam) is vengeful, it is just that Christianity (like modern British judges) tends to sympathize more with the wrongdoer than the victim - a policy that we have seen has had horrendous consequences for human society.

[Simone]

Why am I not in the least bit surprised to find that Lord Haw Haw (the one with the chutspa to call himself "Lord Truth") has found, in this topic too, yet another opportunity for venting his antisemitic spleen? This time, he chooses to dress it up as being anti-Israel, rather than anti-Jewish. However, since he goes on to claim that Judaism is all about revenge, it is, once again , painfully clear where he's coming from.
He's also woefully ignorant. The Jewish State, now called Israel, was still in existence when large parts of the Bible were being written.
Now, what was that he claimed? Christianity is all about love, is it?
Hmmm - I doubt the victims of the Crusades, or of the Spanish Inquisition, would agree with that...

Oh, and I notice he never did take up my challenge to explain why he hates us so much. Could it be that I cut too close to the bone, Lord T?

[Lord Truth]

Reading that paganism has re-emerged in Greece is no real surprise.I have been expecting something like this for sometime.
The religion of Europe-and "the West" is Christianity,which to get its message across has always used one of the most basic methods of modern advertising,namely the "before" and "After" technique.
"Before" is represented by the Old Testament,the "After" by the New.
The Old Testament is concerned with the history and adventures of the Jews and Israel,which by the time the Bible was created had long ceased to exist.It has onlyreemerged in the last fifty years or so and its activities are increasingly regarded with horror by many people in the world including Jews
However intellectually one approaches the Bible,Christians find themselves in an increasingly embarrassed toe curling situation regarding this matter,although very few would ever talk about it.
It is one thing to regard ancient Israel and the land of Zion as mysterious or rather magical metaphors.It is quite another to find them thrusting their very real problems at oneevery time one watches the ten oclock news.
In America,that great land of believers, this problem has been cleverly solved by inverting it-ie-instead of recoiling with embarrassment,everything Israeli is enthusiastically taken on board,even though this always goes with the somewhat patronising rider that at some time the Jews will see the error of their ways and all become Christians thus neatly solving the Israeli problem.
I confess I do not see an easy solution to this problem though the churches could do something by clearly separating themselves from Modern Israel and its policies-yet since the policies of Modern Israel are remarkably similar to those of Ancient Israel,this is extremely difficult.
Perhaps more emphasis should be placed on the main tenet of Christianity and the features which distinguish it from other religions-something which again goes against the grain of the present multicultural,multifaith atmosphere.
I would suggest that Christianity is not about God.The Muslim religion is about God
Christianity is not about rebirth.The Hindu religion is about rebirth.
Christianity is not about revenge.The Jewish religion is about revenge.Christianity is about love.Love IS all you need.
Presenting this message with the historical baggage of Israel and the Old Testament removed might be the answer-but I am no regular churchgoer....

Regarding the discussions about the importance of sacrifice in Pagan rituals....the point seems to have been missed that such sacrifices are essentially a reasserting of control over ones situation-particularly if that situation is under threat -by the gods -God or simply something...The rituals effectively say ..We are in control still ,both as masters of earthly things and of our situation.
It is a self consoling phenomenon however much it is dressed up as a something to console God

I actually find these pagan enthusiasms disturbing -as I do the interest in the Classical world....but there is no space here to discuss that...
Visiting the Classical world can be dangerous...it is not Roedean with dancing on the lawn....

[Daughter of Hestia]

In my opinion, regardless of what any 'scholars' may say, it is the Gods and Goddesses themselves who determine what I do and do not sacrifice for them.

While I am a vegan, I know that if one of my patrons requested an animal sacrifice, I would provide. It's my opinion that the Gods have become weary of the needless, thoughtless and brutish killing of animals that occurs in our world today - they are killed in factories by the millions, stripping our land of it's agricultural worth and tainting our environment with their genetically modified feces and flatulence.

There was a time when killing an animal meant something; it meant that you were willing to hunt and capture or to slaughter your best milking cow to please the Gods, you were willing to truly sacrifice something. Now, it is such a cheap, everyday occurence this 'sacrificing' of a life to feed our greedy guts that what God would be please by it? None of mine seem to be.

[Amphicrates]

I didn't have the time to read all the commends but I agree with Meic Crahart's one. Not all ancient Greeks were believing in 12 Gods. I will not make assumptions about Socrates' or Plato's beliefs, but I will remind you that there were "parallel" religions those years. The same people worshipped the 12-god system and other cults from the east (Mithra, Isis etc). Obviously the classical religion was practiced for various social reasons (unity of state, national identity etc).

ANIMAL SACRIFICE could not be performed in an archeological place in the centre of Athens. However, modern (orthodox christian) greeks do perform animal sacrifices for various saints despite the dissapproval by the official church. Isnt this a surviving pagan custom? The greek pagans will have no problem of offering sacrifices in places far from the authorities' eyes.

[Ted Garvin]

A few points--I shan't spend much time attempting a rebuttal.

One of the reasons for animal sacrifice during Hellenic festivals was to add some meat to the diet. Typical diet was closer to vegetarian than what we typically eat today.

The recent ritual to Zeus in Greece has more to do w/politics than w/religion, IMHO. I think the costumes a bit on the cheesy side, but who am I to cast aspersions on another's religion? For the sake of argument, Mary, let's pretend you're a high church Episcopalian (I prefer the term Anglican because its easier to spell/pronounce).

The service consists of a priest performing a magic act (symbolically turning bread/wine into the Body/Blood of Christ), w/the worshippers doing exercises: stand/kneel/sit; then genuflect/bow as they leave the pews; then kneel at the altar rail; various and sundry gestures at different parts of the service: signing themselves across the torso and (during the Gospel reading) at forehead, lips, and (I think..even great Homer nods) chest.

Other religions have equally bizarre (to a skeptical non-believer) practices. Several times a day, Muslims prostrate themselves. Jews (some of them; I confess ignorance) rock during prayer.

So, to be belligerent, where do you (the hypothetical you, a follower of a different faith or none atall, atall) get off ridiculing those who honor the ancient gods (w/whatever ceremony they find appropriate)?

[Oinokhoe]

Wow, after just one news article you manage to dismiss an entire religion. Not the kind of intelligence and understanding I would have expected from a scholar. For your information, the revival of ancient Hellenic polytheism has been going on for several decades both in Greece and the US and other areas of the world (though many would say that the forms it takes in Greece are very different from those in the states). We are developing a rich, devoted tradition based in the ancient but also adapted to the modern world. Most importantly, we believe in, worship and love the gods - which is what polytheism is about.

Yes, we understand that animal sacrifice was a large part of the ancient religion (though there were certainly plenty of people and groups who did not participate in it and yet still practiced the religion). But we are not living the same lives as they did. Most of us (just like every other modern person who buys their meat at the supermarket) do not have the expertise and experience to humanely slaughter our own animals. We do not live on farms, we live in apartments in cities - not exactly conducive to massive sacrificial rituals. So we make adjustments. Some people actually have performed sacrifice (humanely, and where the meat is mostly eaten by participants afterwards, just as in ancient times), but it is rare. Some people will leave a small portion of their meal, often including meat, for the gods, or burn it in a small fire or on a grill. Some people choose to just focus on bloodless offerings, or are vegetarians (both things that were present in ancient Greece). Our religion is not invalid because of this.

I'm sorry if this puts a crimp in your teaching style, having to actually learn about and respect this reconstructed religion, but if you approached it with a better attitude, you might find it interesting and enlightening to learn about how people are still being touched by the gods in our lives, and how we respond and build relationships with them.

[Joan DeArtemis]

Mary,

May I respectfully point out that when the Solomon built the first Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, it was surrounded by Polytheistic temples. Like their neighbors, the Jews performed animal sacrifice, and quite a lot of it. In fact, there was an entire economy built around the Temples, both Jewish and Polytheist, and there was quite a lot of dramatic interaction between them, as anyone can read in the Torah/Old Testament.

The Jews were exiled from Jerusalem twice. Both times they had to come up with strategies about how do perform their sacrifices, which, by rights, were only supposed to be performed in Jerusalem. The second time they were exiled, they decided to give up animal sacrifice and replace with a kind of "virtual" sacrifice... that is, reading about how to do the sacrifice is the same as doing to. Quite brilliant, really.

Early Christians had decided that Jesus was the sacrifice that ended the need for sacrifice, another brilliant move, because the Romans were forbidding Jewish sacrifice in Jerusalem.

So, Rome becomes Christian and they stop doing sacrifice. They also greatly discourage anyone else from doing sacrifice.

End result, we all get over the whole sacrifice thing. It is hard, messy, and a new form of religious economy replaces the old Temple system.

Jump to 2001 and the Greek Polytheists.

While I agree with you that it is not really a Temple without a sacrifice, I do think that we (that is, humans) are past that now. We simply do not need the public display of killing animals to communicate with divinity. This is not really a "re-enactment" of ancient ceremonies, but rather, and attempt to re-member some PART of an earlier religion that was lost that may have a significant message for 21st century people.

I, for one, and very interested in what is going to happen next!

[Thorolf]

Actually, there are some Nordic Pagans (we prefer the term "Heathens", actually) who have performed animal sacrifices (mostly pigs and goats from their own farms) for ritual feasts, in a sacrificial mode. Does this somehow make us more 'serious' than the Ellenais folks? Take a look at the post-Christian attitude toward blood sacrifice and the health/agriculture laws restricting the keeping of livestock within city limits, among other things, and you'll see that it's often not being 'airy-fairy' that keeps us from reddening the stones of our harrows, or purchasing a hecatomb - it's a combination of economics, legislation, and the modern sensibilities of our next-door neighbors. It's taken us 1000 years or so to get back to the point of being openly, publically pagan/heathen where the worst we really have to worry about is being publically ridiculed by classics professors - it may take us a little while longer to really get back into the swing of things.

[Meic Crahart]

Let the ancients speak themselves.

Cleanthes Hymn to Zeus

Most glorious of the immortals, invoked by many names, ever all-powerful,
Zeus, the First Cause of Nature, who rules all things with Law,
Hail! It is right for mortals to call upon you,
since from you we have our being, we whose lot it is to be God's image,
we alone of all mortal creatures that live and move upon the earth.
Accordingly, I will praise you with my hymn and ever sing of your might.
The whole universe, spinning around the earth,
goes wherever you lead it and is willingly guided by you.
So great is the servant which you hold in your invincible hands,
your eternal, two-edged, lightning-forked thunderbolt.
By its strokes all the works of nature came to be established,
and with it you guide the universal Word of Reason which moves through all creation,
mingling with the great sun and the small stars.
O God, without you nothing comes to be on earth,
neither in the region of the heavenly poles, nor in the sea,
except what evil men do in their folly.
But you know how to make extraordinary things suitable,
and how to bring order forth from chaos; and even that which is unlovely is lovely to you.
For thus you have joined all things, the good with the bad, into one,
so that the eternal Word of all came to be one.
This Word, however, evil mortals flee, poor wretches;
though they are desirous of good things for their possession,
they neither see nor listen to God's universal Law;
and yet, if they obey it intelligently, they would have the good life.
But they are senselessly driven to one evil after another:
some are eager for fame, no matter how godlessly it is acquired;
others are set on making money without any orderly principles in their lives;
and others are bent on ease and on the pleasures and delights of the body.
They do these foolish things, time and again,
and are swept along, eagerly defeating all they really wish for.
O Zeus, giver of all, shrouded in dark clouds and holding the vivid bright lightning,
rescue men from painful ignorance.
Scatter that ignorance far from their hearts.
and deign to rule all things in justice.
so that, honored in this way, we may render honor to you in return,
and sing your deeds unceasingly, as befits mortals;
for there is no greater glory for men
or for gods than to justly praise the universal Word of Reason.

[betty]

As a teacher of Classics in what is called a high school in Australia (probably a secondary modern?) a frequently asked question I received was, Did the Greeks and Romans really believe in these gods? I would say, well perhaps, in the same way that Christians believe in the Virgin Birth - not all believe literally, but it has symbolic truth for many.

Once, under pressure I said, Well perhaps they didn't believe literally in the existence and powers of Zeus, and certainly nobody did now, - only to have a second generation Greek Australian say, with a worried expression, that he wouldn't be too sure of that. He certainly felt that it was as well to keep on Zeus's good side, and that I was pushing the limits a bit.

As for the weather, there is an Australian expression of doubtful derivation, where drought stricken farmers pray for rain by gazing skywards and crying, "Send it down Hughie!"
Who is Hughie? One suggestion is that it is a corruption of Zeus.

[Geoffrey Bain]

"Formerly what served to reconcile Gods and men was spelt and pure salt's glistening grain. ... A man was wealthy if he could add violets to crowns fashioned from meadow flowers; the knife which eviscerates a pole-axed bull had no role in the sacred rites. Ceres first delighted in a greedy sow's blood" (Ovid Fasti 1.337-49).

Now, of course, this is Roman rather than Greek, but the interchange between the two manifestations of pagan faith is undeniable, beyond which this shows that at least some amongst the ancient pagans did not view the sacrifice of blood as a necessary component of ritual. Add to this the already mentioned Pythagoreans and others who abstained from all manner of animal slaughter and you have a full fledged faction which doesn't view animal sacrifice as a necessary adjunct to the practice of their faith.

[Nemo]

Classical pagan worship may be newly returned to Greece, but 15 or 20 years ago here in the USA I saw a desktop published magazine for followers of the Greco-Roman gods. As I recall there were stories about plans for group worship as well as stories about how to make shrines to the Olympian gods in your own home.

On another topic: Those who say that Christianity won out over paganism (both Classical and Norse) "because it is true" should immediately be asked why Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto etc. have largely proved impervious to Christianity and why Islam was able to roll back Christian gains in the Middle East and North Africa.

[Samuel]

I think you are missing the point entirely. I doubt very much that many of the followers of this group are actually concerned with the verisimilitude of their rituals. It's a political statement against the Orthodox Church of Greece in the Church and State debate. These followers are in fact anticlericals and strong proponents of a separation between Church and State in Greece. Their proclaimed pagan affiliation is first a rejection of the official church, which is still a very powerful institution in Greece. And their will to perform religious ceremonies in the ancient sanctuaries is a way to underline the partiality of the State which denies them this right while allowing the Church do say mass in the ruined early christian basilicas whenever it wishes to do so.

[Miro]

It looks like that lots of people view paganism trough the eyes of their Christian education (brain wash) background. I am a Pagan, after spending years of reading on religions and history; it was a right choice for me. Trough time I realize that I am not alone, thousands of people slowly realizing that we should remember our ancestors and learn something from their knowledge. No scripts! We don’t need them; look at the nature around us, which is our holy book. Dance of the Gods and Goddesses around us trough the circle of year. We all know how early Christian church make pagan holydays for their own (just try to find Eastern in their scripts if that is possible, maybe next to the rabbit and eggs). As lots of our European Gods goes trough death till resurrection, so as our faith. It was live and strong, trough death it passes and now it is time for resurrection trough new born children of ancestors. We have rights to make new rituals and find peace in ourselves. Stonehenge is active, Upsala in Sweden is active and now Greece.
Rituals are just symbols of nature around us, and we all know that. Look at the masons and any “Western mystical order”, first three degrees are the same, we are born, we live and we die. In pagan tradition is the same but we celebrate the nature as it goes trough seasons. We use names and characters of Gods that is suite to our heritage or ourselves, freedom of choice. Evil is not some guy in a red coat, it is people that is evil…but if we teach our children that they shall look at the nature and learn trough mythological stories, to learn that every person have a right for connection within him self, without any church? Imagine world like that! Thinking about organization that you talk about, temples is for people (pagans), every one have right for that. Freedom of religion means freedom of any religion. And I think that it is time to step out from this crime that most of the people call Christianity.

[Oliver Nicholson]

Zenobia need fear no Inqusition. Her thought is anticipated by the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews, who argues that the sacrifice of Christ makes further blood sacrifice otiose: "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all... this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever...." (11, 10 and 12).
If one wants a turning-pont for the conversion of the Roman Empire to Christianity, Constantine's prohibition of sacrifice seems crucial. Though Porphyry remains a puzzle: why should the author of the 15 books of Against the Christians be in the De Abstinentia so unenthusiastic about the central rites of civic religion.

[Candadai Tirumalai]

Paul certainly urged followers of the new religion to reject meat which had been offered to idols. And in trying a Christian, Pliny first ensured that he would not accept such meat.
This may sound sacreligious but more than forty years ago a distinguished Professor of Folklore at an American University would regularly say that Christians were cannibals because of his interpretation of Communion. Nobody asked that he be dismissed him for his views.
I believe Tacitus said that philosophers were sceptical of religion, that politicians used them for their own purposes, and that the populace alone truly believed in it.
Socrates was accused of rejecting popular religion but before his death he asked that a cock be sacrificed to Aesculapius.

[epaphroditos]

My first reaction to the BBC news of the “Ellenais” was thinking how Voltaire would call them: " charmants plaisanteurs" (he actually used for his free-mason friends). And of course I also thought these people really funny, with their "ancient" clothes, prayers, etc...but so are christians, muslims, jews, etc...in their religion festivities. What is more important is the fact that they got official recognition in a country where the church has a terrible power, and I can only hope that this recognition would spread all over the European Union. This could shed a new light on the "debate" judaism-christianisn-islam, with a closer look and a comparative analysis of the history of these religions. I find it always disturbing that people do not realise how christianity applied a "taliban"-like policy on a much larger scale, up to the recent times of colonisation in America, Africa, Polynesia... than what we have seen in Afghanistan. And people forget the religion wars among the christians themselves, from the very beginning, up to now (Northern Ireland), very much comparable with the wars going on in the islam between Sunites and Shiites.In the comments posted sofar , I miss also the most important issue: the tolerance versus other religions. As far as I know, Greeks nor Romans ever fought "religion"-wars. Mary Beard may know more about this, but it is well accepted that they did not refused nor refuted new gods or religions. Judaism and christianism were considered as "inhuman" because these religions rejected everything not belonging to their religion. This intolerance is to my mind the true issue of the monotheist religions, and that should be on the agenda of the European Union (and its badly needed Constitution). And please, let us not use the term "paganism", because it is a totally incorrect term used by the christians: in fact, the "pagans"(illiterated, non-educated people) were the first to be christianised, but often keeping their "pagan" rituals for a very long time.

[judith@judithweingarten.com]

Do I risk an auto da fe if I point out that Jesus is a blood sacrifice?

Visit Zenobia's new blog
http://judithweingarten.blogspot.com

[Mary]

PS - David Kirwan. No I didn't know the Chesterton (to my shame). Thanks for that, m

[Mary]

Let me reply to a few of the comments.

First, to my learned colleague Dr Warren: yes, I am afraid Aristotle Phys 2, 8 198b 17-18 HAD indeed slipped my mind for a second. That said, while I accept that Greeks and Romans probably did by and large think that weather was in the hands of the gods (look at the beginning of the Aeneid), it does seem to me to misrepresent ancient 'paganism' to imagine that standing around praying for rain was ever a big part of it.

To the various comments about bloodless sacrifice in the ancient world. Yes (Andrea) I do know about it -- inded have written about in the book I wrote with John North and Simon Price on "Religions of Rome". My point was, though, that -- whatever other rituals were carried ut -- the act of animal sacrifice lay at the very centre of ancient 'paganism'. Here I am following the work of (inter alios) Vernant and the Paris School (for Greece), John Scheid (for Rome).

Re Curt Steinmetz -- I have not much time for any religion that just PRAYS for peace. I prefer a little peaxe ACTIVISM.

On the students (xjy) what I used to do (not sure I would now) when any of them came to me to complain that Christianity has not been properly treated in one of my colleague's lectures -- is first listen, then say "What would Jesus have done in these circumstances?" (sorry -- that's a cliche now, wasnt then). This soon led them to the conclusion that a brave and head to head, out in the open challenge to Professor X was the only way forward...

There -- lots more to say here, but I shall be late for my conference, m

[Xjy]

Important as blood (human) sacrifice is to religion, we shouldn't forget Mary's other point. The risk of speaking bluntly about the absurdity and irrationality of religion in front of "believers". I've done this in classes full of Middle Eastern Muslim and Orthodox students, Catholics, etc. Over the years, I became less and less cavalier about this. While it's fun pointing to the ignorance of the majority of believers in the community (if not in the class)(Lutheran) compared to the hands-on scriptural knowledge of others about what they believe in, it's no fun risking an auto da fe by demonstrating the absurdity of all kinds of religion compared to a scientific and rational atheist approach.

By the way, Mary, are your students still required to sign an oath binding them to defend the faith before they embark on their studies?

Were you required to sign one before teaching them?

[Andrea]

Not all offerings and sacrifices involved blood in ancient times, so why should they today? Go read Plato's comments on Orphism and bloodless sacrifice sometime. In fact, as a Classicist I'm surprised you haven't already.

Personally what I find the most amusing is that HAD it involved animal sacrifice, people would've been up in arms, pointing to it as yet another reason why we Hellenists are "miserable degenerates of a dead religion". Honestly, when it comes to prejustice, I guess you just can't win, eh?

[David Kirwan]

Does Mary realise that she is paraphrasing a remark of G. K. Chesterton's originally made, I suppose, about a century ago? I can't at the moment lay my hands on the original quotation, but he made a remark in one of his essays to the effect that 'some people say that paganism is returning: when Parliament is opened by the sacrifice of a white bull on the steps of Westminster Palace, then I shall believe that paganism has returned.'

On the other hand, I am reminded of the encounter I had seven or eight years ago with a wild-eyed German who was wearing the emblem of the Hammer of Thor round his neck (and what would BA say to that?) and loudly proclaimed 'The Christians thought they had got rid of us; but we have survived and WE ARE COMING BACK!'

[postblogger]

You sound like you rather hanker after a good old-fashioned hecatomb...

And as for 'Ellenais', my favourite thing about the whole story was the alliteration from the Greek Orthodox spokesman, who labelled them 'a handful of miserable resuscitators of a degenerate dead religion who wish to return to the monstrous dark delusions of the past'.

After a lot of the stuff with which the C-of-E comes out, I just like hearing clergymen who aren't mealy-mouthed...

[curt steinmetz]

I wonder if Mary Beard has ever heard of a Greek philosopher named Epictetus - who encouraged us to forget about our national and class distinctions and to remember what is most important - that we are all children of Zeus?

I also wonder if she has ever bothered to make a blog entry commenting on how "charming" (and utterly absurd) it is every time a Christian, Jew or Muslim utters a prayer for peace in the name of their "God"?

[Tim Addey]

True, sacrifice was (is?) the key to the ancient religion: but did this mean blood sacrifice? The Pythagoreans (sixth century BCE) were vegetarian (as far as we can tell) and Porphyry wrote on the Abstinence from Animal Flesh (in the third century CE) so there seems to have been a fairly long tradition of avoiding the killing of animals amongst many ancient devotees of the Gods. Every age has its appropriate morals, and it is the nature of tradition to change as well as to hold firm to principles, according to the needs and refinements of its participants. Although I'm not really a defender of sensational costume clad revivalists, let's not dismiss them solely on the grounds that they've adapted old traditions to modern mores.

[Oliver Nicholson]

Iamblichus says (De Mysteriis V, 30) that prayer and sacrifice are inseparable. Are these people worshipping the same Zeus (a shiny or a rainy Zeus) that stars in the Iliad ? So much for world peace.

[Mike]

You are so right-on.

Two thumbs up or cuddos, if you will. It was the sacrifice that connected us with the immortal-ones and the sharing through the flames, so true with all Indo-European religions - the communion between this world and the other. Sharing of the wine, beer, mead or soma and the sharing of the blood and meat of the sacrifice through the portal of the bon-fire - made the connection. Thanks for your incite!

Sincerely - MC

[Liz]

Asking the question about the rise of Christianity is *always* worth asking, especially if one is (as I am) a practicing believer - if you don't understand where you come from, how on earth do you expect to grow? If that means having to face what might be uncomfortable truths about the imperial use of Christianity in Byzantium, so much the better. There's no point in pretending that historical power play didn't play a role in the dominance of Christianity in all periods, and to think otherwise is to be participating in a dangerously narrow view of one's religion.

[Xjy]

I just imagined an international league of Viking Thors, Wiccan druids, and Ellenais Zeuses doing their thing together at Stonehenge/Trafalgar Square. I wonder what a syncretic European Church of Heathenism (ECH) would look like? Blood, fire, mistletoe and lightning?

[James Warren]

Hi Mary,
Aristotle, Phys. 2.8 198b17-18, must have slipped your mind: 'Just as Zeus sends rain so as to grow the crops...' Precisely what this means (and whether A. himself believes it) is a matter of some debate, but it seems not unreasonable to think that someone might have a go at encouraging him to rain at the right time.