What made the Romans laugh?

This is my new project, which I’m soon going to be working on full time and full speed. But, as I was down to give a lecture to a group of “lifelong learners” on Saturday night (they were spending their weekend reading Latin at the University’s Continuing Education Centre at Madingley Hall), I decided to give them a first taster.

So we spent an hour looking at Roman jokes. It’s a richer subject than you might imagine, though it’s shame that some of the best texts haven’t survived. Just think what you could have done with the 150 volumes of joke anthologies by one Melissus, a contemporary of the Emperor Augustus.

Still, I tried out some of those we do still have, curious to see how they went down.

The winner, I think, wasn’t exactly a joke, but a bit of Roman imperial sit-com. It’s a story about the bonkers emperor Elagabalus, recounted in the hugely unreliable late imperial series of biographies known as the Historia Augusta. It still had them laughing on Saturday:

"He had the custom of asking to dinner eight bald men, or else eight one-eyed men or eight men who suffered from gout, or eight deaf men, or eight men of dark complexion, or eight tall men or eight fat men  -- his purpose being in the case of these last, since they could not be accompanied on one couch, to call forth general laughter."

Elagabalus had a strong suit in practical jokes, and can be credited with the invention of a Roman version of the whoopy cushion. But they had a dangerous side too. He was the emperor (again according to the Historia Augusta) who showered his guests with so many rose petals they suffocated and died. (On the left, as pictured by Alma Tadema.)

But as for jokes proper, the winner was an ancient version of a “nutty professor” joke.

The source for this is a curious compilation of about 250 jokes in Greek, probably put together in the sixth century AD, but including a good number of -- even by then -- very old chestnuts. It’s called “Philogelos” in Greek, or “Laughter lover” (and there’s a 1980s translation still available by Barry Baldwin).

The first hundred or so are all “nutty professor” jokes (“scholastikos” in the Greek). Saturday’s favourite was this one:

"“That slave you sold me died”, a man complained to a nutty professor.
“Well, I swear by all the gods, he never did anything like that when I had him.”"

Also raising quite a smile was one of the “Abderite” jokes (that’s, I’m afraid, the ancient equivalent of the Irishman or Belgian joke):

"Seeing a eunuch chatting with a woman, an Abderite asked him if it was his wife.
The eunuch replied that people like him could not have wives.
“Ah then she must be your daughter.”"

And finally, in third place, was one of a category not so familiar from our own repertoire – that is jokes about blokes with bad breath:

"A man with bad breath went to the doctor and said, “Look, Doctor, my uvula is lower than it should be <a regular anxiety among the ancients, ed.>.”
“Phew!” gasped the doctor, as the man opened his mouth to show him. “It’s not your uvula that has gone down, its your arsehole that has come up.”"

No, don’t ask me to explain, if you didn't get it.

Comments

[Paul Potts]

Yes, sorry, I should have said James Baldwin. It might have been "Another Country", but I doubt it, since that is sometimes a school text. A bit late now, I suppose.

Paulo

[Karl Steel]

I'm surprised not to see the Testamentum Porcelli on here! It's one of my favorites, anyhow.

Thanks so much for this post: I'll have to get my hands on that Barry Baldwin trans.

[Tony Francis]

Dearest Paulo (or anyone else), There is a drawing instructor at Wichita State University who makes sculpture by stacking up toilet paper and dryer lint. It takes her about 6-8 weeks to complete each work of art.
http://kristinbeal.tripod.com/
http://kristinbeal.tripod.com/id8.html
http://kristinbeal.tripod.com/id4.html

You have expressed concern about what constitutes art in the past. Any thoughts about this?

[Paul Potts]

Jackie and Edmund: reputation or gossip suggested that Caesar's "conquests" were not necessarily female. In any case, I refer you back to Tony Francis' post under "The Return of the Gods" on eroticism in warfare. We've seen plenty of that recently, where, it seems, rape is routine in violent conflicts, such as Dafur, Uganda. Quite what can be achieved militarily by such behaviour, but I am reminded by a novel of Dalton Baldwin, in which the narrator is a participant in a gang rape. His interpretation is that what they were really interested in was each other's prowess, performance and penises.

Paulo

[Jackie]

Edmund, not if the 'conquests' being described were of the female rather than the military variety.

[Edmund Burke]

Paolo claims that what Julius Caesar really said was: "vidi, vici, veni", and goes on to say it can hardly be a Roman joke. Quite right! A joke about a general who arrives AFTER he has seen and conquered is Irish, not Roman.

[Xjy]

Maybe the official boring ruling class view of (Imperial) Roman humour - their "Punch" god help us - might be Seneca's Pumpkinification of Claudius??

But what about post-Roman Latin humour? The frolics of monks with nuns and Popes with anyone and anything? Erasmus? Learned dons flaying their rivals? Diplomatic gossip while Latin was still the lingua franca?

[Paul Potts]

What Julius Caesar really said was, "Vidi, vici, veni". I suppose that can hardly be a Roman joke, hoary though it is.

Paulo

[Tony Francis]

Dear Lord T: There is more of a story here than appears. My old editor was a big jokester. He frequently sent me letters written in mixed Japanese and Latin. He did this as a joke. We were both born in Years of the Horse. He called me "chii'sai uma" which is "little horse", while he was "dai uma" which is "big horse". He believed that every article and letter submitted to the journal should be printed. We had a large number of submissions from around the world. I was the "foreign rewrite editor". He would send me letters beginning with: "Dear Chii'sai Uma, see if you can do something with this". The article would typically be: "Into our hospital, over a long number of ten years, during this period of time, 200 patients in danger of nearly dying would have been saved of their lives the operation of which the authors this paper are graciously writing down for you to consider as a method acceptable to be practiced for your use. Some of these could be children, considered of the police by our city to be abused or the victims in other difficulties." So I would rewrite it in standard English, then add my own comments. Sometimes I would add a remark such as "Many Jews make their children listen to Beethoven, but some might consider this to be an odd form of child abuse." He loved it (as did most of the readers). But he would always replace "Jews" with "intellectuals". Unfortunately, he died, and the journal came into the hands of people I couldn't stand. So I quit.
One thing I learned when I was in grad school with a lot of Chinese students: if you can write Japanese, you can write Mandarin, since most of the characters are the same.

[Lord Truth]

I wonder what nationality is Paul Potts-certainly no Englishman would ever admit to having no sense of humour

And surely Mr Francis,not all intellectuals are Jews?

[anthony alcock]

Eight fat men on a sofa: accompanied by whom ?
I think people in Lesotho are not the only ones who laugh to conceal their embarrassment.

[Tony Francis]

Speaking of Roman jokes, the movie "The Fall of the Roman Empire" is going to be on Turner Classic Movies February 18. The last time I saw this was over ten years ago. It is said that Alec Guinness rewrote his lines. It is worth seeing him as Marcus Aurelius. Sophia Loren plays his daughter. She acts like a depressed drip with an affective disorder of some kind. But there are some German native girls in little barbarian boots. I would have hated to see this before Sir Alec rewrote his lines.
http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title.jsp?stid=74487
"Quo Vadis" is on the same day. For a synopsis longer than the movie:
http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title.jsp?stid=933
Also showing that day is "Raintree County" which is set in Pre-Civil War Indiana. It stars Montgomery Clift who always seems to make the ladies swoon. He marries Elizabeth Taylor who thinks she is pregnant. She is pleasing enough, until she gets behind closed doors when she turns into a complete whack job. This was supposed to be the northern version of "Gone With The Wind", but it never quite measured up.
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raintree_County
As I am writing this, the "The Red Shoes" is on, which my mother thought was the greatest movie after GWTW. Unfortunately, if you are in England or Europe, you can't see "The Fall of the Roman Empire" because it is only showing in the US that day. It isn't worth flying over her to see it. I notice the only movie they show on TCM France is "Edward Scissorhands'. I could never figure what that was about.

[Paul Potts]

Michael Bulley is right. What makes people laugh is very culturally and no doubt historically various. It is certainly not equivalent to finding something funny. In central Africa, laughter expresses, or attempts to conceal embarrassment. For example, in a traffic accident, the culprit may well laugh, and the foreign victim is liable to misinterpret this as not caring, or even as an added insult. In fact, the implied equivalence between "she laughed" and "she was amused" is the equivalent of the hack novelist's use of "he pursed his lips" or "he raised his eyebrows" or "he shrugged his eyebrows" etc. etc.

I was once at a performance of Romeo and Juliet in Lesotho. At the suicide of Romeo, the junior Basotho audience laughed uproariously, much to the obvious demoralisation of the British performers.

If I were to seek a soul mate, I would avoid anyone who claimed to have a sense of humour; and in my own self description, would claim to be devoid of such. It's a bit like claiming to be humble ("I'm an 'umble man") - the claim self deconstructs.

The poet Horatius Flaccus was very funny everywhere, especially, I suspect, in some of his more serious poems.

Paulo

[Tony Francis]

For a list of ancient jokes, see:
http://www.stoa.org/diotima/anthology/quinn_jokes.shtml
This is one of the links from the French wikipedia entry concerning philogelos. There is even an explanation of terms for those who don't get the jokes. Some are in poor taste. But others are good: "An intellectual was about to die. His wife said, 'If you die, I shall hang myself'. The intellectual said, 'Why not bring me some joy while I am still living?'" This was described by the site as being "misogynist". They must have a different concept of misogyny than I do. Another is: "A friend said to an intellectual, 'I want to congratulate you on the birth of your new son!" The intellectual said, 'It is because of friends like you that I have a new son!" Of course, this can be taken several ways. This reminds me of the time when I was an editor to a medical-legal journal. The senior editor was a Jew. Being petulant, I would slip something into an article, like "many Jews think this", or "some Jews say that". He caught them all, and replaced "Jew" with "intellectuals" every time.
For a temple carving concerning Hercules carrying off two troublesome "cercopes" see:
http://home.comcast.net/~pythian/courses/humor/kerkopes.html
After making fun of Hercules' anatomy, he decided to let the Cercopes go free. It pays to be witty and charming when under duress.
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cercopes

[Lord Truth]

Examining ancient humour has great possibilities and I wish Prof Beard success and hope she comes to some interesting conclusions.It is an area that obviously requires considerable specialist knowledge which I do not have
However it has been suggested in many books on the subject that humour is connected in complex ways to sadistic -masochistic emotions.
In any slave society all such emotions would be biased to the sadistic however apparently harmless they may appear.
Indeed Beards Elagabulus examples are perfect examples of this sadistic 'humour' as are the others.
I supect that much ancient humour ultimately derived from the 'Oh my Gawd -thats revolting' kind of shock horror-hide your face emotions that are prevalent in some crude American teenage humour today-which still contains elements of an arrogant sadistic slave based society and which can be seen at its extreme in vicious physical attacks by young people that are regarded as 'a laugh'or a joke
Looking at Italianate humour through the centuries one surely finds in the development of absurdities- clowns punchinello pantomime etc etc elements of a humour based on kinds of visual distortions that are essentially sadistic in origin as distinct from being more delicately cerebral ie witty
Humour and its origins are always an interesting source of discussion.

[Michael Bulley]

I know it's childish, but Martial III, 78 always makes me laugh.

Minxisti currente semel, Pauline, carina.
Meiere uis iterum? Iam Palinurus eris.

[Xjy]

Surely something can be culled from Catullus,Horace,Martial and Juvenal? And (bit late?) Apuleius? Or Plautus? Perhaps it depends on how black or brutal your taste is. Petronius, of course. All good clean fun laughing at the physical, intellectual and social shortcomings of inferiors (with the noble exception of Catullus needling Caesar, and maybe Plautus?). Bad style, Old Man!! Haw haw... Ugly bastard with rotten teeth, haw haw... Clean teeth, cos he brushes em with piss, haw haw... All a bit Chaucerian (Miller's tale - just like the Miller's wife in the Golden Ass - or Swiftian - adding just a touch of nectar to the wormwood or bile...
Makes you wonder how the Womans would have weacted to Life of Bwian, weally.

[dr venables preller]

Perhaps study of facial expressions of statues and carvings jointly with a psychologist could detect whether Kingsley Amis's special orgies-in-ancient-Rome 'face' imitation might have had the capacity to amuse any of the participants?

[Peter]

This isn't quite jokes, but I loved some of the lead sheets of curses that had been pulled from the pools at Bath, and I wondered why no one seemed to have collected them.

[Gi]

I'm already looking forwards to reading more.
I'm an absolute fan of Roman wit. Cicero, for all his faults, had the most amusing repartees.
Go for it :-)

[Michael Bulley]

If the proposed title is something like "What made the Romans laugh", it won't work. That would be like "What makes the French laugh". If it's "Jokes in Ancient Rome", that could. What makes one person laugh may leave another stony-faced. Some jokes go over some people's heads. Some people laugh at jokes others think shouldn't be laughed at. British readers will understand what I mean if I refer to the jokes of the late stand-up comedian, Bernard Manning. Many people thought his jokes funny. I am among those who found them cheap and unamusing.

I've never met anyone who has denied having a sense of humour, but I have met people who say and believe they have one who haven't, and more than once I've found people laughing heartily at a joke and have known full well they'd missed the point of it. So, Mary Beard, maybe your next piece should be in the form of (what you think is) a witty article, so that we can judge whether you are the right person for the job.

[Geoff]

My grandfather used to tell a joke about 3 deaf men in a car: "Is this Wembley?" "No, Thursday." "So am I, let's stop and have a drink." We knew it was old, but were fascinated to discover a comparable tale in the writings of Meleager!

[arindam bandyopadhaya]

What about the joke in Satyricon? 'A circumcised slave-boy always slept with an eye open'.

Regards

[Simon]

I think these are pretty funny, from Suetonius' life of Vespasian:

"He was well built, with strong, sturdy limbs, and the expression of one who was straining. Apropos of which a witty fellow, when Vespasian asked him to make a joke on him also, replied rather cleverly: "I will, when you have finished relieving yourself." "

"as death drew near, he said: "Woe's me. Methinks I'm turning into a god""