Dead men's books

When my mother was dying, she made it very clear that she didn’t want anyone wearing her clothes after she was dead. I didn’t quite understand this at the time. After all, she would have happily have given away her internal organs if they hadn’t been past their sell by date. And she happily distributed her used clothes during her lifetime. So why not after her death?

I vaguely supposed that it was something to do with the final annihilation that people going through, choosing or rejecting your clothes would seem to entail. And didn’t give it much more thought.

But last week, I came face to face with that sense of annihilation when the vultures(self included) descended to take the pickings of my old, recently dead supervisor’s books.

For many academics, books have much the same significance as clothes. They are what you use every day and you have your favourites as well as your expensive mistakes. Not to mention the carefully mended, the carelessly torn, the messily annotated.

The trouble is what happens to them when you’ve gone to the great library in the sky.

In Cambridge, the labour of disposal often falls to your college – which normally take its pick for the college library, then lets the local second hand bookseller take his pick and make a tidy profit.

John Crook’s college had made a different decision. They announced an afternoon when  college and faculty, students and staff, would be let into his old rooms to buy any book they wanted for a pound, though larger donations were welcome. All profits were to go to a fund for the college staff. It was a nice idea – designed, I guess, to ensure that the old man’s books went to those who would use and value them.

In fact it turned into a truly ghastly occasion.

The omens were bad when I walked into the college and met one of my graduate students who said that he’s just bought a copy of my PhD thesis. Now, it couldn’t have gone to a better home, and I'm truly glad he got it. But I still felt that somehow it was a personal thing between me and Crook – not something to be flogged for a quid.

It was altogether worse when I got in his rooms. They were emptier than he had left them, but his cap was still there, the desk in the same place and all the books still on the shelves – or some of them were. For the vultures were already at work, rifling through them section by section, picking out some, casually rejecting others. A few people had piles numbering what looked like hundreds of volumes.

Couldn't they have put the books on tables? Or just somewhere else? It seemed like theft taking them from the shelves where some of them have spent the last 50 years.

The worst moment was when I heard one student bibliophile loudly bark: “Is it a presentation copy?” I could have thumped the boy. I wanted to say, “That book was given to him by a friend, who wrote in it for him …and he then used it. It isn’t a commodity which will enhance your collection because its got an author’s signature in it.” But what was the point? We were all there sniffing out the bargains, a bit like the first day of the sales.

Mum was right about her clothes, I thought.

Comments

[Cato the Elder]

It's my understanding that Prof. Crook had stipulated that this is what should happen to his books...

[Carol A]

A little late to comment on "Dead Men's Books", but it did touch me. I have in my collection several beautiful old (and rather worn) books on Latin and Greek subjects. Some even contain personalised book plates. I cannot pick up the books without giving a thought to their original owners: a 19th century learned clerical gentleman with an MA and various degrees in Theology, a female don from the 30's, a prize presented to a top student in the 40's. I feel very close to my "fellow students", even though they died many years ago. Do they look down on me with approval? (Of course, all Classicists become angels!) I hope so.

[Oliver Nicholson]

Dear Paolo,
I think I heard that Sandpiper did their reprints under licence from OUP, and that indeed it was the fact that they were going to do this which made OUP think it was safe to let these valuable volumes go out of print.
You should not be too hard on OUP. I seem to remember that the last copy of a 200 copy print run of an edition of the Gospels in Coptic produced under the aegis of Dr. "I do not love thee" Fell in the later 17th century was sold out of the warehouse c. 1911 - that must be a record for keeping a volume in print !
Yrs., OPN

[FG]

Paulo,
in part I agree with you, in the sense that when you write something you bring it forth into the world and you must accept that it may take on a life of its own beyond your complete control; and neither should I complain if someone thinks me worth quoting in the context of their own work (ktema es aei).
But, equally, it is the case that I can collect and publish my own posts.
In the case of inclusion in an anthology it would depend, I guess, on various factors: such as, whether money was being made and who was making it (whether a corporation or an individual), how much was quoted, and how much money was at stake.
Federico

[Tony Francis]

For those of you wanting a visual: I look exactly like Tony Franciosa; or I resemble a 25% Robert Redford-75% George Peppard morphing; or 50% Brad Pitt- 50% Johnny Depp morphing - take your pick - it is likely to be one of the above.
Lord T: You have refused to give me my cigar. You have refused to pay me royalties for posting comments. Now you have proposed to usurp my writings on this blog, as well. To remedy the situation, I have contacted an idle Harvard lawyer, who was recently an advisor to one of our presidential candidates. I met her in person. She was simply giddy and foolish at the sight of me. She didn't act like a Harvard lawyer at all, but more like a silly high school sophomore. I said, in a stern voice, "Madam, contain yourself! Remember who and what you are!" She is a thirty something, and I am... well, suffice it to say, it is yet another tragic case of J Syndrome. She is hiring me to be her client. She insisted on it. She will be visiting you to impose a settlement. (She is making a trip to Scotland to settle some business up there, and will be coming your way.) Pay attention, for she is passionate, Irish and a redhead. If you don't acquiesce, the B-52s will be sent in your general direction.

[Paul Potts]

Dear Oliver

Thanks for the Sandpiper reference, but are they or not in breach of copyright? In the case of the OUP, I really don't care, because it's the money they seem to be interested in, not the books.

Dear Tony and others

Your prophecy of impending doom for books because of the Internet is I am sure, quite wrong, if only because it depends on the inhuman emiricist view that mind and body are separate, never mind the Soul. Brains are part of the body, and bodies have their own memories etc, and I want to bring in the importance of the Imagination, which is at least partly based in the genitals. (Coleridge doesn't quite say this, but he certainly seems to hold that the Imagination is more important than, say ratiocination or perception.

And, I really don't understand what all these copyright concerns are about. For myself, if my posts are worth copying and repeating, I am pleased rather then indignant. Mary does occasionally tidy up or even tart up my blogs. I feel flattered that she has gone to the trouble, and her alterations are always for the better. It may be that one day, I shall want to gather them - but they cannot be not publishable, because they are in the context of Mary's own posts, or those of her respondents. I suppose it is an interesting matter who would own the copyright, but lawyers tend to be very unpleasant and expensive and to be avoided.

My words are no longer mine when I have published them, just as my children are not "mine" even at birth, never mind when they grow up. My dentist is not "mine" - there is a big philosophical and even theological question here, which I have tried to indicate elsewhere. It is called sometimes the heresy of "dualism" or the fallacy of "ownership", whether of words, goods, slaves, or bodies. Thomas Aquinas (based on Latin translations of Arabic translations of Aristotle) got all this right, but it was lost in the legalistic and pseudo-pietistic clericalism that followed and led to Luther and the filth that today presents itself as religion.

When Pontius Pilate said, "Quod scripsi scripsi", he was not claiming copyright - rather his "INRI" was an insult to the Jews, and a bemused sign of respect for the victim of his condemnation, who had been or would be serially buggered by the "Roman" soldiers, (actually not Roman but Syrian or something, presumably).

Paulo

[Tony Francis]

I have never had a case involving copyright law, so I don't know too much about it. From what I can tell by reading the US Code, there are two problems with claiming a copyright on a blog: 1.) A copyright is assigned to a real person, not an anonymous author. This includes people writing under a pseudonym, but the pseudonym must be identifiable with a real person. Anonymous bloggers probably don't fall into this category, since there is no way to tell who is posting the comment. 2.) The writing must have some intrinsic value. To be honest, most of the comments on this (or any other blog) aren't worth much. Does a letter writer to the opinion page of a newspaper have a copyright to his letter? According to US laws, yes. Does he have a right to the profits of the newspaper that prints his letter? No. Compilations of previously copyrighted material belongs to the original owners, and not the compiler. But if the compilation is of anonymously submitted material, there is no original copyright to begin with. Anyway, that's my take on the law. Most legal, medical and scientific journals assume ownership of the copyright as a benefit of publishing your work. If you work for a corporation, or a univeristy, you probably have no rights to your written work. I write all the time, but it is done under a federal subpoena, and therefore, belongs to the federal government. A hypothetical: Professor John Doe from Lowe Tech University posts his excellent poem on Mary Beard's blog. As long as he is an identifiable individual, he owns the rights, and can claim them when XYZ Corporation starts to make money publishing his poem in an anthology of poetry. Whether he really wrote the poem would be a question for the trial court to decide, based on the evidence (his notebooks, communications, etc). But if Richard (or the other Richard), posted the same information, it would probably not be copyrighted. Anyway, it would be more difficult for Richard, (or the other Richard) to prove in a court of law that he was the one who posted the information. It is further complicated by the fact that it is published in the UK. It could be argued that it is published simultaneously in the US, therefore, triggering US copyright law. I don't think there is much case law on any of this:
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/copyright/ownership.html
http://www.walthowe.com/pubweb/copyright.html

[Lucy]

Mary, I am very sorry for your loss. I thought while I read your piece that some of the nicest moments of my undergraduate degree in Cambridge were those when I saw a familiar name in a second-hand book, or found out that there was some tenuous literary history between me and the person I was writing about. Maybe that will be the case with your old supervisor's books - I hope so.

Best wishes,

Lucy.

[Lord Truth]

Open the champagne! At last Tony has written something interesting and useful-indeed thoroughly disturbing to us all...
This matter of copyright of comments is of some importance.
Since Beard is a reasonably valuable cog in the News Corp money printing business may I suggest she contacts one of the dozens of lawyers at Wapping and comes in front of the curtain to speak to the house about this-though I suppose Daniel Finknottle probably knows the small print.
Are there any ways round this business I wonder?
I started my own blog sometime ago-at lordtruth.blogspot.com (Lord Truth :The Superior View-)but stopped when it became obvious I would have to go down a much more politically strong road.I have certainly thought about transferring some of my comments there but they would almost certainly be rewritten and expanded in various ways.
This raises the question-if the subject or gist is the same does copyright still exist .and how many words or sentences have to be changed to make the new comment legally new ?(incidentally Tony , Understand that Lord Truth ,the party of the second part hereby declares forthwith that all public comments statements utterances however made in any source printed electronic or otherwise by the party of the first part known publicly as "Tony Francis" and by any other names known or unknown are held for all time and are the sole property of the party of the second part known hereafter as Lord Truth who is the copyright owner under British Law )

I believe the similar question was raised in the Da Vinci Code case.It ended with a victory based on the principle that you cannot copyright an idea
I do not think that my recent comments count as anything other than ideas-though of course elegantly written
However the thought that all the unpublished horrible things Ive written about Finknottle actually belong to him makes me writhe...
The question of identity is not to difficult -all my own writings are done on the same computer so its IPO address is known-however you have unerved me slightly -loss of identity for anyone is quite disturbing so I will identify myself -Lord Truth is 72,looks 42,feels 32,thinks 22,is tall razor thin blackhaired but intellectually bald ,in a Shakespearean way.Has a voice like a more objectionable Tory cabinet ministerTakes twenty vitamin tablets a day. Thats enough I think- Wait -Ive just seen someone come to the door and hes said something though the letter box-hes short, bald spoke with an Australian accent and is carrying a baseball bat... Time to go....

[Richard]

... or rather, I am the same as one of the Richards below, but not the other one...

[Richard]

In case of any copyright problems, I should stress that I, Richard, am not the same person as Richard (below).
(Also, my books are marked in a quite different way from his).
Best wishes,
Richard

[Federico Gamberini]

Lord T. and T.F. have placed their finger on a significant issue. I have always taken it for granted that anything I posted was mine.
This is a cultural blog; when I write something I try to put some thought and care into it, and I do it for free. So, in order to avoid any misunderstanding, I hereby lay claim to anything I have written, or will write, on these blogs, regardless of what the small print may say, and I suggest that everyone else do the same. We have a community here, and on matters of common interest we should severally speak as one.

[Tony Francis]

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title17/title17.html

[Eileen]

Nom de plume?? I've been wondering about "Tony" "Francis"--sounds like that delicious TV actor (american) from the 60s/70s, Tony Franciosa !

Perhaps our Tony can point us to some copyright links, not wikipedia please.

[Tony Francis]

Dear Lord T: According to one writer, the blogger owns the rights to any posted comment, and not the blog. The act of publishing the comment automatically triggers US copyright law. This presumes the comment is original, and not someone else's copyrighted work.
http://www.reasonableman.com/archive/2005/02/who_owns_blog_c.html

I would imagine a written disclaimer on the blog could, in theory, indicate that posting a comment on the blog automatically relinquishes the blogger's rights to the comment. Wiki is like this: once you write something there, you have agreed that the writing is theirs and not yours. They will quickly remind you of this, if you try to amend your work.
It is a hypothetical question: What if Mary Beard wanted to publish a book "My Favorite Blog Comments"? Who owns the comments? That is why I would imagine there is a disclaimer, buried somewhere on this blog which indicates Rupert/Mary Beard actually own the rights to the comments.
Another interesting legal question: How does one identify who is really posting comments? Who, for instance, is Lord T, or Tony Francis, for that matter? How do you prove a comment actually come from a given person?
That being said, I am hereby claiming all rights to any and all comments you have written on this blog. If you want to publish them elsewhere, please send me a check. If you are unhappy with this arrangement, sue me.

[Richard]

Books are like breadcrumbs, showing a trail through the good and poor choices we read. Mine have 'Richard' inscribed vertically inside the first page. Let each breadcrumb go forth when I no longer need it!

Richard

[Oliver Nicholson]

Dear Paolo,
I think there is an outfit called Sandpiper which reprinted many of these OUP treasures (certainly Syme's Tacitus and Fraenkel's Aeschylus Ag. - which does not excuse the retention of my copy of the latter by persons or persons now unknown). I have seen them for sale in bulk at the wonderful emporium, Loome Theological Booksellers in Stillwater Minn.. I am sure Dr. Loome would entertain a postal or cyberrnetic enquiry.
Yrs., OPN

[anthony alcock]

One of the most valuable aspects of scholar's intact libraries, as far I was concerned, was the offprint collection, at least for subjects like the study of Ancient and Coptic-early Islamic Egypt, where the publication base was less well established. I used to find collections in one place (such as in the Griffith Institute, Oxford, where I spent some time) pretty useful. When I read Classical Mods, I seem to remember reading only well-established published (OCT, Teubner, Budé) texts. Things changed with Egyptology, because the principal edition of many texts and studies of them were to be found only in journal articles published across the western (culturally speaking) world.

[Tony Francis]

The worst to get rid of are the old National Geographics. Every middle class family had these from the 1950s-1970s. In those years, they were great. One could take a trip to many different countries with every issue. Now, all those parents are dying. Libraries don't want the NG. Neither do grade schools. My neighbor, the glass and china trader calls them the "Yellow Bane."

[Lord Truth]

The answer to David Jowetts question 'What happened to the equipment of a Roman soldier at his death,is surely found in the New Testament-his friends diced for it.

A more interesting question than what happens to dead mens books is what happens to dead comment writers comments.
Where do they go-will they or are they- electronically pulped in some distant future?
And who exactly owns the copyright on them -if any.
If I decided to publish my own comments here in some other way,would Ruperts hitmen come after me?
Ah well...The light gleams for an instant,then comes the dark...(I suppose)

[Paracelsus]

A (very nerdy) classics joke I once heard:-
Professor X:"So, Professor Y, now that you are retiring, where will you store the many books you have accumulated over your career?"
Prof. Y:"I have shown some foresight in the matter, and have converted the loft in my house into a suitable library."
Prof X:"Ah! Does that mean that you shall finally be able to read Plato - in the original attic?"

I know, I know...

[Tony Francis]

Paulo: In my old job as an editor, I got to review numerous books, and write comments about them. I quickly came to the conclusion that some books have only one worthwhile chapter in them. Some have only one page that is useful. Others have no reason to have been written at all. Last year, I cited a medical article from 1980. The judge said, "This is interesting, but it is ancient history." I replied, "Your honor, 1980 seems like last year to me." He replied, "Well, it doesn't to me." When you are a federal judge, you can make statements like that, and get away with it. I used to have medical journals from way back when. But if you are quoting some article from 1948, they only think you are a nut-job. So I got rid of them. If it isn't from the last five years, or so, forget about it. I think in 50 years, books will only be an ancient, odd-ball curiosity. I imagine everyone will have little computers to connect them to the 'net.

[Paul Potts]

Well, Tony and Mary, there are books and books. Some hateful, some poisonous, some useful, some beautiful in their looks, presentation and smell. The burning of books is therefore not necessarily a bad habit. The publishers of John Le Carre, (would you believe?) (and of others), inform us (proudly?) that their products are printed on recyclable paper. Perhaps when I die, the paper can be used to wrap me like a mummy of old, to the delight of the papyrologists of the future. When I go to the great garbage disposal unit in the sky, I hope to find there the wonders which the OUP cannot be bothered to keep in print, such as Fraenkel's "Agamemnon" of Symes "Tacitus" or their whole inspired "Oxford Authors" series. Meanwhile, I do not want to find any of their "Oxford Classics": badly produced, bound and overpriced. They belong to the Inferno, unlike the remarkably revived Everyman series, handsomely bound, clearly printed on good paper, and at a lower cost. They will be with me In Paradiso.

Paulo

[PL]

Books (and works of art), like water, seek their own level. Thoreau recalled that the only thing ever stolen from his unlocked cabin at Walden Pond was a copy of Pope's Iliad, which he said he didn't much regret, since it would eventually end up in the hands of someone who appreciated it.

[Jackie]

One of my tutors retired a short while ago, and was selling her home to go and live with her brother. As there would not be room for all her books she asked if I would like some of them. Silly question, of course I would! I was invited over for tea and we spent an enjoyable, for me, hour going through her library, while she decided which of her treasured books she really couldn't do without. I am now the proud owner of a diverse collection, thanks to the generosity of an old friend. Much happier, for me, than pawing over them after her death.

[Paul McKechnie]

I'm sorry to hear of the undignified character of this occasion. John Crook was kind to me and I have (and use) books which he gave me. And he arranged for the disposal of the books he had at the time when he died in a typically generous way.

[David Jowett]

MacDonald Fraser, of Flashman fame, in "Quartered Safe Out Here" describes how, after the death of a comrade in Burma in 1945, the dead mans gear was laid out so his fellows could exchange their kit for his, before it was handed in to Regiment as required. For example a despised Sten gun could be exchanged for an esteemed Lee-Enfield rifle. There are also several fictional accounts of the possessions of dead sailors being auctioned before the mast. Invariably, these are described as hallowed and ancient military custom. So what happened to a Roman's stuff? Was a legionaries equipment really sword, javelin, shield, sandals, reinforced leather armor? Valuable in those days, I guess, and death in action cannot have been uncommon. On the other hand, if weaponry was not sometimes buried, archaeologists would have a thin time. Any elucidation?

[Carol]

Professor Crook did leave many of his books to my college, Lucy Cavendish, and the college as a whole is terrifically grateful for a bequest that has transformed its ancient history and classics holdings - and that has already helped at least one student, me. Some of Prof Crook's books are now sitting on my bookshelf, but via the Lucy library, where they will benefit many students rather than a handful of acquisitive bibliophiles.

It was very thoughtful and generous of Prof Crook to remember a young college still building its book collections, and every time I'm able to borrow books left to my college by him and previous benefactors (rather than have to request and recall and fight for faculty library copies!) I'm very grateful.

So please, if it helps at all, think of several hundred volumes that are much appreciated in a home where they will benefit many students, rather than the unseemly scramble of last week...

[Tony Francis]

During and after Desert Storm, I knew several youngsters in the US Army who were going to college. I would ask them about their classes, and which texts they were using. The response was routine: "I'm not buying any books, I am getting it all on-line." At the time I viewed this with horror. When I was in law school, I had five rooms of law books in my house. That has since been reduced to three rooms. They look impressive, but are mainly dust catchers, and most aren't worth the paper they are printed on. I got rid of most of my medical journals. It is easiier to find it on-line. How do you feel about students "getting it on-line" and eschewing books?

[anna]

it all becomes a bit tragic when someone sends you a book, to thank you for supporting them, and they haven't stopped to learn who you are

[ttiahava]

The only books/ clothes etc to keep, really, are the ones that somehow helped you formulate your own identity.

[Xjy]

Better to keep it all together as a personal library and archive in memory of the old devil involved. Maybe with the purchased books culled by someone appropriate if necessary to get rid of anything "superfluous". But there's nothing like wandering around someone's bookshelves or notes to get at least some idea of how their mind works and what shreds of what material they weave into their own tapestries...
I shudder to think of the sacrilege that will probably be committed on my books when I am nah mowah. At least the important ones have been thoroughly masticated and ingested by me while alive, and it's probably hubris to imagine they should provide the same treat for anyone else through my mediation.
Still, the thought hurts. Perhaps it wasn't such a bad idea to burn the chief's belongings with him. Then everyone gets to acquire their own in that way more personal set of spiritual and worldly goods.

[azq]

And, final tip, for anyone wishing to be a writer or an academic:-

Buy all of Beard's books. Stack them up by your bedroom door, and then kick them, to formulate your own crapping process. Works for me. The books hurt every time.

[anthony alcock]

One or two relatively impoverished scholars of my acquaintance sold their libraries before they died, thus enjoying the money and a reasonable certainty that their books would be treated decently after their death.

[azq]

And I can usefully say that I have five books by Mary Beard so may be one day she'll write something! The next book...

[azq]

The only books/ clothes etc to keep, really, are the ones that somehow helped you formulate your own identity.

[Richard]

I'm very sorry to hear about the clumsy way in which this was dealt with and about how sad it made you feel - I can quite see how upsetting it must have been.

But all the same, perhaps you can take comfort that many of the books will have gone to deserving homes ("presentation copies" or not). The books of a former teacher of mine, who died rather young and is still much missed by many of his students and friends, were given to the Institute of Classical Studies in London, which sold the un-needed duplicates rather cheaply. I bought some of these, being a PhD student at the time, including books I probably couldn't have afforded to buy otherwise, and think of him affectionately every time I take one off the shelf. And in a general way, I think that my teacher would have been happy enough with that.

It's always better, I think, to give those who might want them a chance to get hold of books rather than burning them.

So perhaps it will be for the best, even if done in a rather insensitive way by the college in question. If there is a deserving and impecunious student out there who got and will treasure an important text and will frequently think gratefully of your supervisor, in the knowledge that (s)he could not have found it otherwise, then you may well never know of it, but it will be all the same a good outcome...

Best wishes,
Richard

[Cec Hogarth]

From 1955 to 1958 John Crook was my supervisor, then tutor, and I share your distress. He was unfailingly generous of knowledge, friendship, kindness and humour, and for his his books and, by extension, his life to be scrabbled over in a frenzy of looting by those who should know better is saddening. I have willed my books to a former student. She may not want them: she may sell them, give them away, or even burn them; but she will treat them with affection and respect. They are, after all, if not dimidium, certainly magna pars animae meae, as to John were his.

[Eileen]

It is astonishing that whoever organzied this jumble didnt anticpate the pitfalls. As you say, books are intimate items. It would be like someone going through your underware drawer.
The best thing in such a situation is to cull out the most valuable books and consign them to a reputable rare book dealer. With the remainder you could invite closely connected parties like yourself to take what they like, then burn the rest.

It is also important that people think beforehand of possible heirs for their books. I have a rather valuable collection of art books and have let it be known that I would wish them to be donated in totality to a promising student.