Sex and marriage - things you didn't know about Sharia

1. Many wives Yes a man can have four wives - but only if he proves he can take care of them all equally. Tunisia outlawed polygamy on the grounds that only Muhammed could satisfy four women. In other Islamic countries the man's financial accounts are scrutinised by the courts before he's allowed to marry manay women.

2. Share and share alike A man must spend an equal number of nights with each wife, but if he marries a virgin he can spend seven consecutive nights with her after the wedding. A non-virgin gets three consecutive nights.

3. Siblings A man can't marry two women who are sisters.

4. Buying a wife Muslim marriage is not valid unless the man has paid a dower to his wife.

5. Virgins Virgins, younger women, educated women and attractive women get higher dowers. The lowest a dower can be is 3 dirhams about 40p. A wife can refuse sex if she hasn't been paid her dower.    

6. Pre-Nup Islamic law does not recognise alimony so a woman can delay receiving the dower until divorce. A man can increase the amount during marriage.

7. The mother-in-law A man must provide his wife with a house away from her in-laws and his other wives, otherwise she can leave him.

8. I divorce you In Saudi Arabia a man can divorce his wife by saying "talaq, talaq, talaq". This can be done by text message, fax, telegram, in person, or over the phone. Other Muslim countries have outlawed this method and the husband must say "talaq" over three consecutive months for the marriage to be over.

9. I take it back A man can revoke the divorce up to three months after the divorce during which time he must maintain her financially.

10. It was his smile Simply by smiling at his wife a man can revoke his divorce three months after he has announced it.

11. Remarriage A finally divorced couple can't remarry each other until the woman has first married someone else, had sex with him and divorced him.

12. Sexually transmitted disease A woman can get a divorce if she proves her husband has a sexually transmitted disease that could endanger her life, elephantiasis, or insanity, or if he mistreats her or fails to fulfil his sexual duties. Women now have the right to divorce by mutual consent and the wife must return her dower.

Comments

[Brien Comerford]

I lament the horrible treatment of women, girls and animals in too many Islamic countries. It's abominable and grievous!

[bushra]

thanks for these! one or two of them look like they might come in handy...

[rh]

Free, Free and free.

The biggest haters of women and children are China, India and the west.

China and India each have killed approximately 50 million innocent girls each over the last 50 years.

As far as the west is concerned just in the US they have killed over 44 million innocent babies.

This genocide of the most weak and innocent is considered permissible. They look down at the South American Maya who would do human sacrifices yet the same people go around mass murdering innocent babies with nary a thought.

1. Men are Free. In the west men are free to approach any women they are interested in.

2. Women are Free. In the west the women are free (Just the price of a nice dinner and wine) and the girl/women goes with you. so the women is free (exception of some professional whores who charge the vast majority are amateurs and don't charge effectively free). The women are free since they don't charge

3. Women are free to kill babies. And if the women become pregnant they are free to abort and kill the babies.

So the western men are Free (to approach any women they like)

The women are free (they don't charge anything)

And the women are free to kill the ensuing babies.

Yet while these people go around killing millions of baby girls and baby boys the media says Islam hates women.

In the west you can have thousands of girlfriends (President Kennedy had more than 1000+). It is your private affair and none of the state's business.

But if a man gets married to more than one women and he has to support 2 or more wives that becomes a criminal offense with the whole media thundering about how evil such a man is.

mass murder freedom while saving lives is oppression. A world upside down where killing is free and saving lives is evil. Protecting women and children is evil while killing millions of innocent babies is good.

rh

[fuad hassan]

R H , AM GLAD TO SEE YOUR COMMENT , CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME WESTER MEDIA , FOCUS ON YOUR OWN BACK YARD.. NO MORE ABORTION , NO MORE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE, NO MORE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE , NO MORE TO ALL EVILS

[Jerry Hart]

RH's comments are interesting for many reasons. The one I want to focus on here is how he defines 'free' for a male, as 'freedom of choice' or 'free will'. However, for a female it seems to be 'free of charge' or 'available for use'. My impression is that the notion of a woman enjoying freedom of choice or free will is quite simply inconceivable. Within the parallel dimension where RH and his ilk exist, she is a chattel, a possession, a child-bearer and - in birth - a costly and unproductive burden.

[Allen]

RH and Fuad Hassan,
You actually believe what you say, I am impressed that anyone could be that backward. Good luck to you, and by the way nice outfit.

[Alana James]

Who are you, Fuad Hassan to tell people what they should do? If you want to impose middle-age ideas on the modern country that welcomed you and your family, let me tell you that you'll fail miserably.
If you want to live under Sharia law go to a muslim country and leave people here choose their own way of life.

[Krishna]

RH and Fuad Hussein:
Yes, Western Men and women have many girlfriends and boyfriends respectively. How do you Muslims live in the Western countries you migrate to? A Chaste Life? What do all the rich Arabs(Muslims) who go to the West on business outings do when step on the Britsih shores? They go and have a f@#$*&g good time with the White girls and others. Then they put on their jubahs and purdahs and sneak back to their countries looking all so holy. Mr. Fuad Hussein, you and many like you are the true creepy hypocrites that walk on this Earth. Just shut up , will you.

[RJ]

Blimey.

[John N]

Having worked extensively in the middle east and have seen how the so called enlightened muslim faith responds to non muslims and more commonly the women and girls of their faith. They call it cultural differences I call it abuse. A man can commit adultery but the woman is stoned to death. I can only reiterate the words of Mrs T. "When I hear christian church bells ring in mecca then you can have your yowling call to pray in my home town.." So how long will it be before people who dont think they should conform with the law of the land start giving themselves up a set of laws they can use to abuse the laws of this land sponsored by one of our own lunatic fringe preists (dont forget the church tortured more citizens than the law did for being non believers) is there a link here we should learn from?. I have travelled from the middle east to Europe and watched the Burkhas being ripped of and the whiskey flowing down these true believers throats to see what a bunch of hypocrites they are. If Sharia law is so wonderful go to where it is practiced, but wait, wont that mean they wont be able to claim benefits, dole money or scream for human rights which stops them getting their hands cut off!!!!
I have close freinds and associates who are muslims and even they say dont allow that lunatic fringe to put this forward, it is the single biggest problem we have as muslims, archaic traditions operated by bitter twisted old men portraying themselves as followers and leaders of the faith. "Leave them in the stone age where they are happy with their private militant armies"....

[Dana]

The fact that you think sex is evil reveals you as the caveman you are.

[EC]

Hmm. Fuad, I truly do wish we'd focus on our own backyard and let the middle east implode on its own. Then we can move in and take your oil! As a western woman, I'd never kill my baby OR put up with the crap Muslim women do.

[Joppy]

The above comments are excellent peices of evidence proving why Sharia Law should not be allowed, thank you rh and fuad hassan.

[Dana]

The posters here are at least as nuts as half of these rules, if not more. It takes all kinds of crazy, I guess. Imagine insisting an end to prematital sex, because it goes against your values, while insisting that others shouldn't force their values on others...??? Premarital sex, occasional blasphemy, gluttony and indulgence are my hobbies, and I am happy to live in a country where I am free to partake.

[SA]

What a cheap shot, the way these points above have been presented is very misleading.
How low can you go ?

[ld]

It deeply saddens me to read that you consider all western men and women mere animals-now you might reflect about that...

[John]

Another pro-Islam propaganda job. The reason we don't know these things about Islam is because they don't exist except in the writers mind. The truth "on the street" is much worse than this.

[Pete USA]

They are far inside the gates Britain - they will push and push until you are in the sea. You didn't fight that terrible fight against Germany in WW2, to be taken over by sheet wearing barbarians from the middle ages. Yours is the greatest nation the planet has ever known. Do not forget it. Do what it takes to eradicate this pestilence before it's too late. Your time is growing nigh.

[Naheed G]

For heaven's sake who ever has written this, things you did not know abouit sharia law- i am afraid you the writer do not know anything either. at least that is the impression that i get particularly at point four, buying your wife. you should have conducted proper research into the point why the man has to pay the dower. in future before you go on telling other;s what they might not know make sure YOU know the subject matter first.otherwise you won't achieve enlightment or bringing knowledge to others but only more confusion.

[NK]

rh and Fuad, you need to get your facts straight before you open your mouth or let your fingers type. Rambling on about western women being whores and millions of innocent babies being killed at will simply shows the rest of the world that you are as ethnocentric and ignorant as you accuse them of being, if not more so.

[Guido Benedini]

Everybody knows that women have no liberty and individual rights in Islamic countries. They are forced into marriage, are closed up at home, in some countries are not allowed work, cannot even enter alone into a Hotel,cannot walk alone in the street, are not allowed to drive (in Saudi Arabia), will get lapidated for having been raped. These are just a few examples which are common knowledge. In western countries women are free and enjoy the same civil rights as men. This is the big difference between the west and islam, it is a difference which reflects 1000 years of emancipation and progress in the West and Islam being stuck in the middle ages.UK and Europe beware of Islam! No Shari'a in Europe! nb. in Holland it is Arab youth who statistically commit most rape crimes, of course om infidel women...just to show how far islam goes in respecting women.

[K]

I don't really understand it all, so thats why I like English Law.. it just makes sence. *On a personal note; I beleive everyone in this country SHOULD have to follow English and British Law...

[Regocijado]

Great! That's civilisation for you!

[Shamila]

THESE LAWS HAVE BEEN MISINTREPRETED,
FOR EXAMPLE, THE MAN DOESNT BUY HIS WIFE

HE GIVES HER MONEY SO THAT IN THE UNFORSEEN CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE THEY HAVE 2 GO THEIR SEPERATE WAYS SHE HAS ENOUGH TO LOOK AFTER HERSELF FOR A DAY OR 2 UNTIL SHE CAN GET HERSELF SORTED .... ITS NOT JUST IN ISLAM, BUT ALSO IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE THE MAN IS OR WAS THE MAIN EARNER AND WOMEN WERE OUT OF WORK LOOKIN AFTER THE CHILDREN, THERFORE DID NOT ENOUGH MONEY OF THEIR OWN - AND FOR THIS REASON THE MAN PROVIDES THE MONEY AT MARRIAGE
IT IS NOT 2 BE USED FOR ANYTHING ELSE BUT EMERGENCY
ALSO - THE MAN DOES NOT GET IT BACK AT DIVORCE

SO IT IS BEST NOT TO BELIVE EVERYTHING U READ BUT TO GET THE CORRECT INFO FROM A TRUSTED SOURCE BEFORE COMMENTING

***DISAGREEING WITH SHARIAH LAW IS A MATTER OF OPINION
***GETTING ON A HIGH HORSE WHEN THE LAW WILL NOT BE AFFECTING YOU IS UST SILLY, SAD AND MAYBE PPL HAVE 2 MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS
***MAKING STATEMENTS ON ISLAM WITH THE UNEDUCATED AND IGNORATE MIND IS JUST NARROW MINDNEDD AND A WHOLE DIFFERENT TOPIC

[nizam]

where is proves that "he marries a virgin he can spend seven consecutive nights with her after the wedding. A non-virgin gets three consecutive nights". i never heard of this stuff. please give reference for this statement.

for statement "A man must provide his wife with a house away from her in-laws and his other wives, otherwise she can leave him", where is prove for this statement? it not a 'must'.it is optional; if the man can provide own house, then it is much better.

please provide prove for this statement "Simply by smiling at his wife a man can revoke his divorce three months after he has announced it". from what i know, it is not a 'smile' but 'intercourse'

for "A finally divorced couple can't remarry each other until the woman has first married someone else, had sex with him and divorced him", better wording should be "after three times talaq or divorces"

my general advice: please give more proves for each statement. responsibility of providing correct information comes with freedom of speech

[Isabelle]

The above "guide" is extremely misleading. The dowry paid to the wife is a positive for women - why make it negative and call it "buying a wife"?

Also the way divorce is prescribed in the Quran is that the husband pronounces talaq every month for 3 months and only once the third talaq has been pronounced is the divorce effective. During these 3 months mediation is prescribed to try to save the marriage.

It seems some people are always intent to turn into ridicule what they don't really understand.

[Zain bin Bayyah]

Unfortunately,this only shows how important was this debate.
You are claiming to bring facts about Shari'a however you just picked some very shallow things.
Sharia as a system is much deeper than you can imagine.
You need to study and know more about other culture and not to sit and mock them from your closet.

[David Blecken]

Could somebody please explain to me why sex before marriage is evil? This is a genuine question. I don't see what makes it evil.

[Anon]

R H,

I don't know if you've been to the west but the monetary value of a female baby human in my country (England) is exactly the same as a male baby human. Priceless.

It's a shame that babies who are a product of poor education/alcoholic sexual encounters/poverty are terminated. It is a barbaric attitude in the west that I believe will change in time.

I don't agree that the western media go around saying Islam hates women, but would report instances of the acceptibility of cruelty to women in an area in which Islam happens to be the majority faith. Religion doesn't cause women pain, men do.

1 - Not every westerner kills babies/believes in abortion.

2 - Women in the west prefer to split the bill for a bottle of wine and a meal.

3 - Not everyone in the west believes in marriage, but there are some who do so of their own free will.

4 - I don't think it matters how many wives you have, as long as they are looked after, treated as equals and respected.

5 - I don't think President Kennedy could have pleased 4 women, let alone 1000+ (especially with a country to run).

There is a saying, "Evil begets Evil". Anger clouds us, deludes us, and sometimes when we let our hate take over, we only see the truth in what we want to see. I can see the truth in what the media write because I am fortunate enough to be educated. The beautiful part is, I am working class.

[leigh vernier]

Fine. Go ahead. Oh - don't also forget, scientology law, mormon law, pentecostal law, russian orthodox law. And, what about the non believer majority in Britain?
Quick, we need an atheist law and a "not sure what I believe in" law.

[bk]

You forgot that a woman may also take a divorce under "Khula". And that a woman can claim financial support.
Another point is that many Moslem countries have laws on annulment of the marriage. Moreover Shia Islam also have a set of laws for marriage and their practice is more "modern"

[NF]

Frankly, we have laws that we all must abide with. I resent being forced into a situation where I have to abide by multiple religious laws that I object to. We are all FREE to practise our own faiths, unlike in some muslim countries. Anyone not comfortable with our laws has the freedom to go and live somewhere else more suitable to their lifestyle. They can't have their cake and eat it, and this is coming from a black African British immigrant.

[Ron]

I read in yesterday's Toronto Star that there is a minor epidemic of Muslim men with multiple wives on welfare in Toronto.Seems that each wife can receive up to $1500 a month in welfare.That sounds like a cozy little deal for the Muslims.The Muslim council of Canada calls Canada a very liberal country.There is also mention that similar laws are legal in Britian.

[Donna Walker]

So if 7(above) applies to polygamous marriages - each 'wife' must have a separate house away from in-laws and other 'wives' - how come the Welfare State is paying benefit. The 'husband' is supposed to provide equally for all his wifelets ..... not the state.

Item 2 - so are these energetic men scurrying between numerous houses in order to sleep in a fair and proportionate amount with each wifelet ...... and are we as taxpayers paying for these houses.

Muslims may not like to hear it - but these practices are from what we in the west call the Dark Ages. Muslim men are given free rein to dominate their womenfolk - and it ends up with so-called 'honour killings' and a high rate of suicide amongst young muslim women/girls who are forced into marriages they don't want.

[G Howard]

fuad hassan.

You are of course entitled to your opinion on our western culture, just as we in the west are entitled to our opinion on yours.

I opt to live in my western culture, even with all its faults. Therein lies the difference between you and I and many others like me.

[Garry Sukhija]

I Muslim man can only have 4 wife's, but as many non-Muslim sex slaves.

[WA Yaqub]

Shame on you times for stooping to tabloid levels of accuracy.

This list is a mixture of popular misconceptions and cultural confusion. But even then, true Sharia may seem alien to a society which has lost its moral compass.

[Al-Mansuur]

POLYGAMY

Question:

Why is a man allowed to have more than one wife in Islam? i.e. why is polygamy allowed in Islam?

Answer:

Definition of Polygamy

1. Polygamy means a system of marriage whereby one person has more than one spouse. Polygamy can be of two types. One is polygyny where a man marries more than one woman, and the other is polyandry, where a woman marries more than one man. In Islam, limited polygyny is permitted; whereas polyandry is completely prohibited.

Now coming to the original question, why is a man allowed to have more than one wife?

2. The Qur’an is the only religious scripture in the world that says,"marry only one".

The Qur’an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase ‘marry only one’. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the other religious scriptures, whether it be the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta, the Talmud or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.

Many Hindu religious personalities, according to their scriptures, had multiple wives. King Dashrat, the father of Rama, had more than one wife. Krishna had several wives.

In earlier times, Christian men were permitted as many wives as they wished, since the Bible puts no restriction on the number of wives. It was only a few centuries ago that the Church restricted the number of wives to one.

Polygyny is permitted in Judaism. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had three wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygyny continued till Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah (95% C.E to 1030 C.E) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, until an Act of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.

3. Hindus are more polygynous than Muslims

The report of the ‘Committee of The Status of Woman in Islam’, published in 1975 mentions on page numbers 66 and 67 that the percentage of polygamous marriages between the years 1951 and 1961 was 5.06% among the Hindus and only 4.31% among the Muslims. According to Indian law only Muslim men are permitted to have more than one wife. It is illegal for any non-Muslim in India to have more than one wife. Despite it being illegal, Hindus have more multiple wives as compared to Muslims. Earlier, there was no restriction even on Hindu men with respect to the number of wives allowed. It was only in 1954, when the Hindu Marriage Act was passed that it became illegal for a Hindu to have more than one wife. At present it is the Indian Law that restricts a Hindu man from having more than one wife and not the Hindu scriptures.

Let us now analyse why Islam allows a man to have more than one wife.

4. Qur’an permits limited polygyny

As I mentioned earlier, Qur’an is the only religious book on the face of the earth that says ‘marry only one’. The context of this phrase is the following verse from Surah Nisa of the Glorious Qur’an:

"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one."

[Al-Qur’an 4:3]

Before the Qur’an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them.

In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says:

"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...."

[Al-Qur’an 4:129]

Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to have more than one wife.

Broadly, Islam has five categories of Do’s and Don’ts:

‘Fard’ i.e. compulsory or obligatory

‘Mustahab’ i.e. recommended or encouraged

‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed

‘Makruh’ i.e. not recommended or discouraged

‘Haraam’ i.e. prohibited or forbidden

Polygyny falls in the middle category of things that are permissible. It cannot be said that a Muslim who has two, three or four wives is a better Muslim as compared to a Muslim who has only one wife.

5. Average life span of females is more than that of males

By nature males and females are born in approximately the same ratio. A female child has more immunity than a male child. A female child can fight the germs and diseases better than the male child. For this reason, during the pediatric age itself there are more deaths among males as compared to the females.

During wars, there are more men killed as compared to women. More men die due to accidents and diseases than women. The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.

6. India has more male population than female due to female foeticide and infanticide

India is one of the few countries, along with the other neighbouring countries, in which the female population is less than the male population. The reason lies in the high rate of female infanticide in India, and the fact that more than one million female foetuses are aborted every year in this country, after they are identified as females. If this evil practice is stopped, then India too will have more females as compared to males.

7. World female population is more than male population

In the USA, women outnumber men by 7.8 million. New York alone has one million more females as compared to the number of males, and of the male population of New York one-third are gays i.e sodomites. The U.S.A as a whole has more than twenty-five million gays. This means that these people do not wish to marry women. Great Britain has four million more females as compared to males. Germany has five million more females as compared to males. Russia has nine million more females than males. God alone knows how many million more females there are in the whole world as compared to males.

8. Restricting each and every man to have only one wife is not practical

Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million females in U.S.A who would not be able to get husbands (considering that America has twenty five million gays). There would be more than four million females in Great Britain, 5 million females in Germany and nine million females in Russia alone who would not be able to find a husband.

Suppose my sister happens to be one of the unmarried women living in USA, or suppose your sister happens to be one of the unmarried women in USA. The only two options remaining for her are that she either marries a man who already has a wife or becomes public property. There is no other option. All those who are modest will opt for the first.

In Western society, it is common for a man to have mistresses and/or multiple extra-marital affairs, in which case, the woman leads a disgraceful, unprotected life. The same society, however, cannot accept a man having more than one wife, in which women retain their honourable, dignified position in society and lead a protected life.

Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become public property. Islam prefers giving women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second.

There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women.

ISLAMIC RESEARCH FOUNDATION (IRF)

[Martin]

I agree that passing judgement on this particular aspect of Shari'a will raise valid points as to the relationship between men and woman in western European countries. What people agree amongst themselves as consenting adults is fine but there can be only one law for all. Those who believe elements of Shari'a ought to be brought into law (including passing all other tests that each new law will have to) then I suggest it is put to parliament. I think we all know what happens then.

[Larry Houle]

THE ABOMINATION OF SHARIA LAW: A DIRECT CHALLENGE TO DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUTIONS AND RULE OF LAW

By:Larry Houle
www.godofreason.com
intermedusa@yahoo.com

Wherever Muslims live under Sharia law adulterers are publicly flogged or stoned to death, sometimes before thousands of spectators in public stadiums. There are no rights for women or children, with women genitally mutilated, and beaten in the streets for the slightest infraction. They care nothing for other beliefs, about being fair, have no juries, no free speech. Television and radio are forbidden, music and dance prohibited. It is their way or execution, the death penalty, with no appeal, no delay. You are simply shot in the head where you stand, and your children shot before you. And these practices of the Sharia, once largely confined to the Middle East, even though mostly finished in Afghanistan, are now spreading to other parts of the world.

Here are the top eleven reasons why Sharia or Islamic law is EVIL for all societies.

11. SHARIA LAW IS SLAVERY

10. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped.

9. Islam allows husbands to hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives.

8. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye.

7. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off.

6. Islam commands that highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated.

5. Islam commands that homosexuals must be executed.

4. Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death.
Fornication:

3. Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself.

2. Islam orders apostates to be killed.

In And the number one reason why sharia is bad for all societies . . .

1. Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad.

Conclusion

The nightmare must end. Sharia oppresses the citizens of Islamic countries.

[Dominic Stockford]

So, a demonstration of how even-handed such rules really are.

Morals in this country may be down the toilet, but injustice is not institutionalised, we have a fair and equitable justice system.

[Joe]

"Tunisia outlawed polygamy on the grounds that only Muhammed could satisfy four women."

LOL, is that true? Is he supposed to be mythologically virile as well as everything else?

Besides which I wonder about the details, and the facts, pertaining to the "satisfaction" of a nine year old girl and the other girls in his harem.

Or maybe after a hard day murdering and conquering the Infidel, he really was full of testosterone after all that aggression.

What are we even doing having discussions like this, outside of an anthropological context? - the analaysis of a primitive, superstitious tribe.

The sad fact is of course, that tribe is established in the middle East and has now spread everywhere, causing problems everywhere.

Churchill was right: Islam is the most retrograde force on the planet.

[Joe]

Thank you for sharing Mr Hussan - but please don't shout, this is not Trafalgar Square.

Does your condemnation extend to Saudi Arabian men using (white) prostitutes, a well known practice? Bradford Muslims not only having sex with white girls, but grooming them into prostitution? Domestic violence perpetrated by Muslim men, codified and endorsed in the Koran? The evil of Mohammed, who murdered a large number of the Infidel? And does your wife have any views on this - could we hear her story please?

[Jèss]

In response to R.H.'s ramblings :

"Under Sharia law a man's word is worth the word of four women, so a woman must have at least three other women or a man backing her up to stand any chance of justice. In rape cases, for example, unless a man openly rapes a woman in public there is no hope of securing a conviction because his word will always prevail."

[n.bhatti]

TALAQ - ISLAMIC DIVORCE
It is absurd to say that in Islam if a man says 'talaq' 3 consequitive times or over 3 months his marriages ends. The Shriah law in the holy Quran Chpt 2 Vs 228 & 229 state 'Such divorce may be pronounced twice .... '; ie in total 3 divorces.
It is important to remember that a divorce in Islam needs to be reiterated by the husband to the shriah authority 3 times over a period of 3 months. Then this will be cosidered the 1st divorce.
If he wants to reconcile, then he will again have to do Nikah (marriage ceremony). Thus he is allowed 3 Nikahs and 3 divorces after that he is not allowed to reconcile unless the ex-wife marries someone else with whom the marriage is consumated and then if she is divorced, he can marry her again.
The second point is that in Islam woman has an advantage over man in the sense that she can give Khulah (divorce) her hasband as many times as she may choose to do so; though she will also have to do Nikah on each reconcilliation. So it is incorrect to say women in Islam do not have divorce right.

[Dr. W S Badawy]

I am very surprised how the west, who claim to be democratic and civilised, twists the truth by concentrating on one aspect of the sharia law and presenting it in a so deceiving manner.
It might be more civilised if you ask people to read the quran and then make their own judgement.

[Tufail]

I appreciate that you put some details about Islamic Law but there was some injustice done. First the different headings that have been written are the writer's own comments and do not convey the true intention behind the islamic marital rules. Buying a wife::: paying dower is not buying a wife rather it shows respect for a woman because you dont take her for granted to have her or leave her at your whim rather you give her equal status and respect because you know if she wants to leave you then you have to pay the promised amount (Dower). you are careful in your relations. However, one thing is very clear and says it all that islam takes care of justice in relations.

[Gloria Enoch]

It seems the more I learn about the specifics of Sharia Law and the Islamic practice and culture the less tolerable it is to me. We must all be vigilant to the Sharia Law and its use in our countries. It is our guilt if women are abused in our countries. We are responsible and I for one am not willing to turn over the treatment of women to Islamic Immams or whatever They need to live in Islamic countries if they want Sharia Law.

[dude]

oOooooOooO

lets all get scared of muslims

[Chris]

Thanks RH and Fuad for once again demonstrating the typical moslem response to criticism 1) Denial and blaming everyone else but yourselves. Has it never occured to you that most aspects of your so called 'Holy' law are highly regressive and disciminatory and could do with a bit of reforming?

[Rie Maya]

I am surprised at the total obvious shock-value of the Times today!
It's Top 12 of What You Didn't Know About Shariah is totally taken out of context and the sources used for it not made clear...many of the examples used are from Saudi which is NOT a country implementing Shariah - it is merely using cuture and a pick and mix approach!

To clarify:
1. A man CAN have upto four wives - if he can provide for them all equally, and treat each equally - on all levels - emotionally, etc.The Hadiths make it clear that if one goes down the route and marries more than one woman, yet does not treat them equally he will be responsble for this and punsihed by God.

2. It would be interesting to see your sourcing for this:
Share and share alike A man must spend an equal number of nights with each wife, but if he marries a virgin he can spend seven consecutive nights with her after the wedding. A non-virgin gets three consecutive nights.

3. This is true - but why do we need so 3 points all about the same topic?

4. It is not buying! A dower or morning gift is a provision accorded by Islamic law to a wife for her support in the event that she should survive her husband (i.e., become a widow/divorced). The dower can be any value as long as it is agreed upon by both parties. When the groom gives his bride the dower, it becomes her property. In case of a divorce, she won't have to give up her dower except in some cases when she is the one who requested the divorce(her husband may ask her to return the dower to him). However, if she has requested the divorce due to her suffering any form of abuse, or has other acceptable reasons for a divorce in Islamic laws ,she will not be asked to give the dower back to her husband.

5. Wrong - a dower can be as small as 1p if that's the woman's request - but it can also be something less tangible like a requirement for his to share his knowledge to make her more learned on a subject, for example. It may only be the a piece of jewellery. Higher dowers are not based on looks etc, it is all based on how the Muslims themselves go about their discussion...it is not prescibed anywhere who should have what! Again why do we need 2 topics on dower?

6. With regard to the issue of alimony, the Qur'an addresses the ex-husband's financial obligation to his ex-wife but it does not provide a specific formula for the amount of support (2:241, 65:4-7). This is open for negotiation between parties and should be in proportion with the husband's financial income.

7. The mother-in-law A man must provide his wife with a house away from her in-laws and his other wives, otherwise she can leave him.

8. Islamically the talaq must be said over three separate occasions.

9. A waiting period of 3 months ('iddat) must take place in which there are no sexual relations even though the two maybe living under the same roof. The waiting period helps prevent hasty decisions made in anger and enables both parties to reconsider as well as determine if the wife is pregnant. If the wife is pregnant, the waiting period is lengthened until she delivers. At any point during this time, the husband AND wife are free to resume their relationship, thereby stopping the divorce process. At this time, the husband remains financially responsible for the support of his wife.

10. Interesting no source to this one...It was his smile Simply by smiling at his wife a man can revoke his divorce three months after he has announced it.

11. This is true - but it is a great sin to go through this process purely to remarry the first! Remarriage A finally divorced couple can't remarry each other until the woman has first married someone else, had sex with him and divorced him.

12. The reasons for divorce all come under these four headings ultimately! The shock value for STD comment is more akin to a tabloid!
a. Physical, mental, or emotional abuse or torture. When one of the spouses becomes abusive and inflicts physical, mental, or emotional torture, and is not willing to change by taking practical measures through therapy or counseling, then it is a valid reason for seeking divorce, for the Islamic principle states, “There shall be no inflicting or receiving of harm.” Zhulm (injustice) is not tolerated in Islam, regardless of who the perpetrator is.

b. Failure to fulfill the objectives and purposes for which marriage was initiated. This can be utter incompatibility between the partners, which may be expressed by their irreconcilable differences in temperaments, likes, and dislikes.

c. Marital infidelity. This can be a major cause for dissolution of marriage, for marriage is built on trust and confidence. Its main purpose is to preserve the chastity and modesty of those involved. Once this foundation is eroded and undermined and there is no chance to restore the same, then divorce is the way to go.

d. Failure of the husband to provide. When the man, who is considered the provider and maintainer of the family, fails to shoulder his responsibilities and the wife decides that she cannot continue tolerating his shirking of responsibility, this is grounds for divorce.

I do hope that the sources of your article shall be made avaialble for scrutiny!

[Penny Amos]

I agree with the last commentor, its called Christianity.If everyone followed Jesus Christ the world would be a better place.

RH, by removing money from the system of dating, all people are equal. Traditionally, a man pays for dinner, but that is becoming an outdated concept here. The woman is then FREE to leave after dinner, you don't just 'get' her! It is not about money and sex, it is about meeting someone you want to spend timme with: friendship and love, and mutual attraction.

Under muslim law, a woman is bought and is thus locked within a 'marriage', which can be dissolved by text! Of course, only the man can do this, the woman just has to wait at home for him to return and smile. Can she divorce him when she gets bored of him?

islamic countries' civil rights records are so dubious i doubt whether women can divorce abusive husbands. just this year, a girl in Saudi was sentenced to death for being abducted and gang raped by many men. her crime: being alone with them in the car. Of course, the gun held to her head was completely inconsequential!

Get a grip, this 'law' is dsigusting!

abortion is another issue: we need to determine when personhood begins to determine whether abortion is murder.

[Rose]

And since when were China and India western countries? They have a whole lot of problems of their own, which I won't even start on here.

[Jean]

Yes RH and Fuad Hassan, that's all very well - but one thing the Western woman is not, is a CHATTEL! And that is because of the equal rights her grandmothers and great-grandmothers fought for and that she keeps on fighting to maintain: i.e., the RIGHT to make her own decisions and take responsibility for her own life. Male domination is a backward concept. The natural roles of men and women COMPLIMENT each other. Neither is 'above' the other. Do you get it now?

[Lizzie]

RH - what about the phenomenon of the "urfi" marriage - a marriage sometimes as short as one hour used in Islam so that couples can get laid. Often the only prelude is a party where the couple's friends or an "official" (not necessarily qualified) agree they're married, they sleep together, then the next day they divorce - a one-night-stand by any standard. Of course many times it is used for prostitution. Indeed the Shia have Nikah Mut'ah, a marriage with an expiry date, so they can sleep around without the hassle of divorcing all their lovers. Or what about the Al-Mesyar marriages where the second wife doesn't live with the husband, and doesn't get any support, just the occasional visit for sex and gifts, and the first wife doesn't know about her - ie she is EXACTLY like the Western mistress.

Then there's millions of women having secret abortions because they didn't know about contraception, then getting their hymen re-stitched to simulate virginity so they can marry. It is absolutely de rigeur in many countries.

I would like to go into the Sharia's attitude to inheritance, rape, custody etc, or what it means for the women in the above cases whose one-night-husbands don't give them a divorce, but I lack the space.

This is your much-vaunted freedom. It is a morass of hypocrisy and self-delusion. Just because you cannot see it or want to pretend it doesn't happen will not make it so. At least the West isn't lying to itself.

There are many things wrong with Western society but the exact same problems are far worse elsewhere.

[jaye]

Then if we are so wicked, we Westerners, then why do you live here with us?

[dsinope]

RH? Islam doesn't prohibit abortion. The Catholic Church, conservative and orthodox Judaism and many conservative protestant religions do.

Baby killing is the liberal demorats fault- majority of the folks did not want it- it was passed by illegal policy making judges circumventing the will of the people- abort the liberals. But at least after they are born they have rights and are treated decently unlike in the muzlum world!

[Mehr]

unfortunately the way Sharia Laws are presented wrongly in the above article. I pray to the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE to give us courage to present the truth and not to hide it.May ALLAH(GOD) shows us all the right path.I would like to invite the author Joanna Sugden to read this to have correct understanding on Shariah law on marriage.
Why is a man allowed to have more than one wife in Islam? i.e. why is polygamy allowed in Islam?

1. Definition of Polygamy

Polygamy means a system of marriage whereby one person has more than one spouse. Polygamy can be of two types. One is polygyny where a man marries more than one woman, and the other is polyandry, where a woman marries more than one man. In Islam, limited polygyny is permitted; whereas polyandry is completely prohibited.

Now coming to the original question, why is a man allowed to have more than one wife?

2. The Qur’an is the only religious scripture in the world that says, "marry only one".

The Qur’an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase ‘marry only one’. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the other religious scriptures, whether it be the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta, the Talmud or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.

Many Hindu religious personalities, according to their scriptures, had multiple wives. King Dashrat, the father of Rama, had more than one wife. Krishna had several wives.

In earlier times, Christian men were permitted as many wives as they wished, since the Bible puts no restriction on the number of wives. It was only a few centuries ago that the Church restricted the number of wives to one.

Polygyny is permitted in Judaism. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had three wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygyny continued till Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah (95% C.E to 1030 C.E) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, until an Act of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.

3. Hindus are more polygynous than Muslims

The report of the ‘Committee of The Status of Woman in Islam’, published in 1975 mentions on page numbers 66 and 67 that the percentage of polygamous marriages between the years 1951 and 1961 was 5.06% among the Hindus and only 4.31% among the Muslims. According to Indian law only Muslim men are permitted to have more than one wife. It is illegal for any non-Muslim in India to have more than one wife. Despite it being illegal, Hindus have more multiple wives as compared to Muslims. Earlier, there was no restriction even on Hindu men with respect to the number of wives allowed. It was only in 1954, when the Hindu Marriage Act was passed that it became illegal for a Hindu to have more than one wife. At present it is the Indian Law that restricts a Hindu man from having more than one wife and not the Hindu scriptures.

Let us now analyse why Islam allows a man to have more than one wife.

4. Qur’an permits limited polygyny

As I mentioned earlier, Qur’an is the only religious book on the face of the earth that says ‘marry only one’. The context of this phrase is the following verse from Surah Nisa of the Glorious Qur’an:

"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one."

[Al-Qur’an 4:3]

Before the Qur’an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them.

In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says:

"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...."

[Al-Qur’an 4:129]

Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to have more than one wife.

Broadly, Islam has five categories of Do’s and Don’ts:

> ‘Fard’ i.e. compulsory or obligatory

> ‘Mustahab’ i.e. recommended or encouraged

> ‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed

> ‘Makruh’ i.e. not recommended or discouraged

> ‘Haraam’ i.e. prohibited or forbidden

Polygyny falls in the middle category of things that are permissible. It cannot be said that a Muslim who has two, three or four wives is a better Muslim as compared to a Muslim who has only one wife.

5. Average life span of females is more than that of males

By nature males and females are born in approximately the same ratio. A female child has more immunity than a male child. A female child can fight the germs and diseases better than the male child. For this reason, during the pediatric age itself there are more deaths among males as compared to the females.

During wars, there are more men killed as compared to women. More men die due to accidents and diseases than women. The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.

6. India has more male population than female due to female foeticide and infanticide

India is one of the few countries, along with the other neighbouring countries, in which the female population is less than the male population. The reason lies in the high rate of female infanticide in India, and the fact that more than one million female foetuses are aborted every year in this country, after they are identified as females. If this evil practice is stopped, then India too will have more females as compared to males.

7. World female population is more than male population

In the USA, women outnumber men by 7.8 million. New York alone has one million more females as compared to the number of males, and of the male population of New York one-third are gays i.e sodomites. The U.S.A as a whole has more than twenty-five million gays. This means that these people do not wish to marry women. Great Britain has four million more females as compared to males. Germany has five million more females as compared to males. Russia has nine million more females than males. God alone knows how many million more females there are in the whole world as compared to males.

8. Restricting each and every man to have only one wife is not practical

Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million females in U.S.A who would not be able to get husbands (considering that America has twenty five million gays). There would be more than four million females in Great Britain, 5 million females in Germany and nine million females in Russia alone who would not be able to find a husband.

Suppose my sister happens to be one of the unmarried women living in USA, or suppose your sister happens to be one of the unmarried women in USA. The only two options remaining for her are that she either marries a man who already has a wife or becomes public property. There is no other option. All those who are modest will opt for the first.

In Western society, it is common for a man to have mistresses and/or multiple extra-marital affairs, in which case, the woman leads a disgraceful, unprotected life. The same society, however, cannot accept a man having more than one wife, in which women retain their honourable, dignified position in society and lead a protected life.

Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become public property. Islam prefers giving women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second.

There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women.

http://www.ilovezakirnaik.com/misconceptions/a01.htm

[Mehr]

If you have any question among these go on the following website to have the answers.http://www.ilovezakirnaik.com/misconceptions/index.htm

A: FAQs by Non-Muslims
01 Why is a man allowed to have more than one wife in Islam? i.e. why is polygamy allowed in Islam?
02 If a man is allowed to have more than one wife, then why does Islam prohibit a woman from having more than one husband?
03 Why does Islam degrade women by keeping them behind the veil?
04 How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword?
05 Why are most of the Muslims fundamentalists and terrorists?
06 Killing an animal is a ruthless act. Why then do Muslims consume non-vegetarian food?
07 Why do Muslims slaughter the animal in a ruthless manner by torturing it and slowly and painfully killing it?
08 Science tell us that whatever one eats, it has an effect on one’s behavior. So why Muslims eat animals instead of being vegetarians.
09 When Islam is against idol worship why do the Muslims worship, and bow down to the Kaaba in their prayer?
10 Why are non-Muslims not allowed in the holy cities of Makkah and Madinah?
11 Why is the eating of pork forbidden in Islam?
12 Why is the consumption of alcohol prohibited in Islam?
13 Why are two witnesses who are women, equivalent to only one witness who is a man?
14 Under Islamic law, why is a woman’s share of the inherited wealth only half that of a man?
15 How can you prove the existence of hereafter, i.e. life after death?
16 When all the Muslim follow one and the same Qur’an then why are there so many sects and different schools of thoughts among Muslims?
17 All religions basically teach followers to do good deeds. Why should a person only follow Islam? Can he not follow any of the religions?
18 If Islam is the best religion, why are many of the Muslims dishonest, unreliable, and involved in activities such as cheating, bribing, dealing in drugs, etc.?
19 Why do Muslims abuse non-Muslims by calling them ‘Kafirs’?

[mj alexander]

The freedom of western civilization comes with many responsibilities and at a cost. However, the west at least acknowledges its problems and allows dissent.

I am always sadly amused by members of conservative religions that proclaim that the evils of the west [abortion, rape, child abuse, etc] cannot happen in their world because of their religion. Remember, such language was also routinely used in the west in the 1950s. However, as history as informed us, it was not that such problems did not exist; rather, it was that no one dared to talk about them. Rapes went unreported, women were made to feel the cause of their own violent abuse, and abortions took place virtually anywhere except in hospitals and clinics. Just because Muslim counties have a low rate of reported abuse, rape, etc. does not in any way mean that these evils do not occur in their closeted little worlds.

Shari'a Law has no place in a secular country. Western democracy [while not perfect by any means] allows for a specified rule of law -- including trial by a jury of your peers and appeal of convictions. How is a Muslim woman to have such protection under Shari'a Law?

[sheik yer'mami]

Take your abortion BS and rub it in your pubic hair! Stick with the issues or go s*#t elsewhere!

Neither do we need any Muhammedan headbangers to teach us morals: stop killing and mutilating your daughters, you weird creeps!

[Jonaid Iqbal]

Please consult Karen Armstrong. She has read the Sharia from a western standpoint and perhaps even liked the legal doctrine comntained in the holy Quran.
Such is my assumption afer hearing her lecture here at Islamabad.
Karen Armstrong referred to Islam's wonderful pluralism.
Hence the objectors should relate to Dr. William's present essay for introducing Sharia in the personal law for Muslims living in Britain. What's so puzzling about in a posotive manner.
Here in Islamic Republic Pakistan, people of Chritstian or Hinduism faith, will be judged, during litigation in terms of their personal faith law.
We respect people of all faiths, in spite of the cant spread about that Muslims are hideously bigoted.

The Quran says, 'To you your faith to me mine. I shall not worshp in the manner that you do, nor shall you worship in the manner that I do.' That means we have been ordained to respect the people of different faith, who are entitled to equality and protection, both under the law of God as well the legal tradition of Islam and Pakistan.

[Roma]

The article Sex and marriage - things you didn't know about Shari'a law, is not true and it spreads the wrong message about Islam. Why on earth do you people write things that you are unaware of? Distorting the truth and senting the wrong message to the public is not the media's duty..

[Perrito]

And how many women die in the Saudi Arabian desert because they are not allowed into hospital in case they come into contact with a man? The religious police pushed school girls back into a fire in their school because their hair was uncovered? Women cannot drive in Saudi Arabia. So women are free???

[UB]

In free world of 21st Century, men and women are equal and have equal rights. I guess Islamic countries do not want to come out of these middle age rules. It is important that in free world countries we must live as free world citizens and enjoy the freedom from the places we have left back.

[saint]

Ah but Fuad, you forgot one thing. In the West you are free to convert and to APOSTASIZE. This is a freedom Jews and Christians have too.
When Islam allows such religious freedom, let's talk.

[ozan ozpinar]

Whose Islam is this?
You don't have the right to blame all the muslims . All religions have dogmas. It is not the way of living in all muslim countries, at least in Turkey-75 million muslim people...So how would you expect me to feel after reading such a report?

[Mike]

I feel sorry for the western media that always present facts in a distorted and partisan way particularly issues related to Islam. And the audience trust them.
Islam basically teaches human being to live decent life style for all human being irrespective of colour, sex and ethnic orgin.
Is there any evil thing more than homosextuality, gang culture (How many teenagers were murdered on the streets of London in 2007), widespread drug addiction and alchol drinking culture, crime, abortion,kids without father,sex, distruction of family bonding, prostitution, racism ...? Whether admit it or not there is extreme social crisis. How on earth we appreciate day and night such way of life?
Ofcourse i appreciate respect for human right, rule of the law, democracy, technology...of the western countries. But you can learn a lot from Islam if you are open minded and ready.

[Peter]

This confirms peoples concerns about Sharia law - it is unjust and barbarous to treat woemen in this way, and no-one could possibly agree that the above list in anyway represents an enlightened and liberal view of humanity and peoples responsibilities and rights.

[Gerry Smart]

The UK is a christain country - for good or bad we do not need any religious based law system here - especially one that is used, (incorrectly) to suppress women, beat/whip people, behead people,etc. Come to the UK, you abide by our laws, based on our heritage - if you do not approve of our ways - live in your country of cultural origin. Islam has been highjacked by soem of its believeers, it is time the moderates took back control, all the time it is used by extremists I for one, (normally very moderate and tolerant of all nationalities) will not want anything to do with muslims!

[Aanya]

I would just like to the raise the question as to where Joanna Sugden obtained these 'laws' from. Surely the fastest growing religion in the world would not and I am sure does not endorse these so called laws that Sugden has posted up on here. Perhaps we as intellectual citizens of the west should not just blindly believe everything that is posted on the net and possibly question and or research it ourselves before believing everything that we read.

[Adrian]

I like the one about "woman now have the right to divorce by "mutual consent"... So, this DOES require the man to consent, whereas a man may divorce his wife on his own accord, WITHOUT her consent... Is this what the Archbiship really wants for UK muslim women?

[Firas]

"the woman must return her dower upon divorce" ?!! who says thats part of Islamic law?!! Have ur facts right! first of all, its not called dower. Dower is given in indian culture by the wife to the husband. in Islamic law, the man gives a Mahar to his wife, which is a consideration given by him to her.

[Crawford]

As ever with discussions like this, those in favour of religion like to focus on the liturgy, and those against point to the practice. Whatever pro-Islamists may say about the text of the Koran, the practice of Sharia, wherever it is law, is restrictive, narrow and quite simply unfair. Whether Ms Sugden's list above is accurate or not, I am amazed that anyone living in the UK could even contemplate the adoption of Sharia.

[RI]

RH and Fuad, here is a pop quiz:
There is only religion whose prophet and founder was a pedophile. Which one? Clue: He coerced into "marriage" a six year old child named Aisha and then consummated the "marriage" when she was nine. He waited for 3 years only because her father was his "devoted" servant and her father made the request to not have sex with a six year old. How compassionate for a prophet ...

[S]

ridiculous- the ignorance is a joke. the study of any religious law need highly sophisticated skills and knowledge. im not sure how many years the complier of this 'list' has been studying islamic shariah but all i can say is do your homework. dont judge islam on muslims, or from your own interpretation- most likely you will get the wrong picture.
another point- where do all the hundreds of white english muslims go to if muslims should go back to their country of origin- gerry smart- your not very smart are you??

[Lee]

Several things about Sharia have not been said.
It is not dependent upon prior rulings or precedence. This means that a sharia court is not dependent upon what has been done before in other courts, so similar cases with similar circumstances can have widely different rulings and punishments.
Sharia isn't really written down as a code of laws and punishments for infractions. It is a series of rulings on a way of life, inferred and interpreted from the teachings of the Prophet and his followers. As a result, there are not set rules, but interpretations of sayings, which can vary widely from court to court, tribe to tribe, and nation to nation. The sharia in Saudi Arabia is different from the Sharia in Dubai, and both are different from the teachings of Shia concepts of sharia in Iran.
There is no unified system of sharia- it is a concept, not a set of laws. Judges in courts are not necessarily learned or trained and credentialed in law as we know it, but are sometimes self-appointed and vary widely in skills and interpretation of the law.
Differences between civil and religious infractions are not specified. Thus, someone who violates a religious law may be held to a civil punishment, such as jail, paid for by the taxes of the citizens rather than the alms of the faitful.
No other concept trumps religious law in Sharia. Not equality under law, property rights, rights of inheritance, wills, deeds and other property matters. There is no support for freedom of the press, free expression, free exercise of religion. No support for trial by an impartial jury, right of habeas corpus, or right to legal representation (Saudi Arabia doesn't allow defense attorneys, even in murder trials).
I would feel more confident in sahria if any Moslem can write down all the laws and punishments so that all other Moslems can agree to them. At the present, this can't be done, and sharia as law in the western sense, can't be codified.
Get your act together first, Moslems, and then we'll talk. But at the moment, sharia is not a common law among Moslem nations, and can't be a common law here.

[eric]

Not quiet interresting is it,the muslim-way.Or the other retarded behaviour they spread around.

All of you that have put up any comments to this thread are saying we do this we do that - Not just non-Muslims but Muslims as well.
Do any of you have a clue of what you are saying and why? Have any of you taken the time to listen to exactly what the Archbishop said? All he has said is that some people accept/follow Sharia Law in the UK. All he has done is state a fact. To date, there are already some Sharia Courts in the UK. Has the presence of these courts had any effect on you? I take it the answer to the question is no, because a lot of you are probably not even aware that these courts exist.
None of you spoke up about these Sharia Courts when they came into existence, and they have never had any effect on you to date. So why start putting up offensive comments, offending others when you say that you are a tolerant and educated society.
When you are learning at school, you learn to listen, but why is it that you have switched off the listening as soon as you stepped out of the schools?
Stop making 'asses' out of yourselves, don't assume, learn to listen before trying to speak and utterring a load of rubbish - not just non-Muslims but Muslims as well.
The things that stated above as those that you did not know about Muslims, are not part of the religion, they are cultures and traditions adopted by different Muslim communities, not what is in the Qur'an. It's the interpretation of some but not all Muslims.
Did any of you bother paying attention in RE lessons?
I did and although I am not Christian, I have read the Bible. Let me ask you all a question, do you follow exactly what is in the Bible, word for word? Have you forgotten the Ten Commandments? There is one 'Love Thy Neighbour'. You may have a Muslim neighbour living next door to you. Honestly, think about this, since the Archbishop made his speech, has your attitude changed towards them? Not intentionally, but it will have done - so you don't even follow your own religion.
Also, each of you will interpret things differently, this includes what is in the Bible, so why is it that you all see the interpretation of the people who have taken it literally.
Have any of you actually read the Qur'an before giving your opinions?
No, so you're not educated enough to make a comment as degrading as you have done.
I have read the Bible, there are parts that I would not agree on, but you don't hear me making any comments on what is wrong, why it's wrong, but I could make an educated comment.
You say that we are living in an accepting society, if that is the case, why don't you all practice what you preach.
As I have previously said, the Sharia Courts that are currently operating in the UK have never affected you, so you're already worried, thinking that what will happen if Sharia Courts come into existence, without the knowledge that they are already in existence.
Hope you all will think before you make any further comments, and also try to demonstarte some of the accepting nature that you like to think that you have.

[Salman]

The Archbishop,s comments came as there is a danger of property market going down in the U.K. Muslims generally dont like the idea of Mortaging the property becuase that involves payment of intertest to the Banks or any other Financial Institution. as the so-called islamic Financial law will come into force, if it does, muslims will not have any problems in mortgaging the properties and investing. interestingly prime Minister himself praised and hailed the comments of Archbishop.

as regards the matter of Muslim personal law like divorce and marriage, this is tricky. because what does it imply, does it imply that there will be separate judges for muslims to decide such cases?

its not clear to me yet..

[Bernie]

What is commonly omitted in discussions about Muslim is the fact that, because of easy divorce laws for men, they are allowed four wives at a time. In the real world, this means, they can have an unlimited number of wives. What the article also fails to mention is that the fourth wife is commonly the revolving wife, a young wife who is traded in every year or two for a newer model.

Also, mahr is a bride price, not a dower. A dower is paid by the wife's family. A bride price is paid by the husband. It is what it says, the purchase price for the use of the wife's genitals.

Also, what the article fails to mention is that a wife's right to divorce is extremely difficult, whereas the husband can divorce at
the drop of a hat.

The article does not mention the various forms of time-limited marriages, 'muta' for the Shias and misyar or travellers' marriage, among other temporary marriages, for the Sunnis.

Many Muslim wives dread the day their husbands become wealthy, because that of course is the day when they will buy more wives.

Furthermore, many wives end up living in the same house, with all the heartache, conflict, humiliation and jealousy this this brings in its wake.

Nor did the article make any mention of the appalling effects polygyny has on children, where the children revolve around the mother, and the father is only intermittedly present. Just as the wives have only a quarter of a husband, so too do the children have only a quarter of a father, even less of a father with the easy divorce for men.

Women are humiliated by knowing that they are not enough for a man, and children are harmed by knowing that their mother is easily disposable.

[Gideon D]

Reading these comments, I am struck by the common denominator, which goes beyond cultures. This is in the fact that all the people speaking are doing so in attempts to improve the human rights situation. The cases where people are abused or neglected, especially women, the 'fairer sex' are seen as the most exploitative.

Each legal system, in terms of their fair-minded proponents, evolved to do just that. The relative ease of divorce in the West is seen as a guarantee of women's safety, a kind of 'right to veto' the marriage. Yet, there is still abuse of women, when men feel insecure or threatened. In the Islamic model, divorce is harder, but there is pressure to provide for multiple wives and treat them equally. Whether this is really possible or not is hard to know, but it seems to be a solution to the same problem- in which the ideal of monogamy is hard to fully live up to.

In each culture, there is the idea that a man who plays around is 'a stud' and a woman who does so is 'a slut'. This is pretty widespread as a notion- in a post-feminist world, this needs to be questioned and it seems to be based around biological assumptions of the male as more the 'hunter', which may or may not be true.

The answer to this is, variously, multiple marriage or serial monogamy. Man is unable to be faithful to the monogamous ideals. We face the great gap between reality and ideals- surely this is an essential part of the human condition.

To simply import the legal system that has evolved under the name of 'sharia' would be horrendous. Partly because in the areas of personal freedom, freedom of religion, freedom for women, it is light-years behind the western ideals. but in the areas of family relationships, respect for the bonds of mothers and their children, I suggest that, whilst importing may be a bad idea, there are lessons to be learnt.

Why do I say this? Because at this juncture in time the Western countries really do have terrible social problems- problems with broken families, delinquent youths, street gangs, drugs, abusive employers, poverty, crime. how can anyone in good conscious deny these failings, or the moral decline that has lead to them. People are losing their sense of community responsibility and caring for one another. The deification of profit (mammon) that capitalism teaches has been allowed to spread from the free-market into areas where it no longer belongs.

Whilst I am firmly against the spectre of introducing Sharia laws because of their human rights failings, I am very much in favour of the West learning from Asia's close family structures and the sense of community to be found there, whilst the Eastern countries learn Western technology and of the respect for individual rights.

We need to learn from one another and try and make a peaceful place, whilst also guarding the evolution of the UK's own 'common law' for all. Attitudes should be the focus, as should education. This, to my mind, is the progressive path.

[Eric Price]

William and Brown have gone mad. If you read all of the Sharia you will know that it is directed against all non muslims including christians and jews. It is a modern Mein Kampf and just like italian or spanish faschism sounded not so bad, wait until the extreemist like another Hitler gets into power. Wake up UK!!

[Stu]

This is obviously a pretty emotive subject. The muslim authors here highlight a host of problems of the western world.

The western world is not without problems. I personally believe that abortion is wrong unless required to save the life of the mother. I respect those who "save" themselves for marriage, something I did not achieve but now wish I had.

However, any religion or ideology that believes that it has the inherent right to force, either by cohersion or violence, their beliefs on others is fundamentally wrong. This is where Islam and Marxism (amongst others) fall down. Cohersed belief is not true belief.

In order for belief to be true belief, it has to be entirely voluntary.

Therefore, I stick with the French philosopher on this subject, (paraphrasing) "I don't believe a word you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Before any muslims here assume I don't know what I'm talking about, I would like you to know that between my wife and I, we are fluent in English, French, Moroccan, Arabic Classic, Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese. I have a copy of the Quran on my bookshelf and some of the Hadith. My wife memorised the Quran when she was at school (she was raised muslim).

We are both Christians. I believe that without Jesus, peace will be fleeting at best in our world.

Many of my athiest friends disagree with that sentiment, but what us Judeo-Christians and athiests can agree on is this:

Any serious study of Islam, it's history, it's prophet and it's laws will result in only one conclusion. The world will never achieve peace or harmony in or through Islam!

Many call muslims evil. I disagree, they are simply misguided. To take an example from our own western history. The Hitler Youth weren't evil, they were misguided. It was Hitler and his core Nazis that were evil. Unfortunately, many Hitler Youth, otherwise good people, were swept into participating in evil. The same is true of some muslims today.

For those muslims here who talk about Sharia law protecting the dignity of women, rubbish. Only a woman can choose her own dignity. The rest of us can help defend that choice, but we cannot legislate it. Once again, true belief can only come from free choice. Sharia law does not allow that choice.

Christianity was forced to learn that lesson under the domination of Catholicism during the middle ages. Forcing belief is wrong! The dominance of the western world only occurred after the reformation released us from a system not unlike Sharia.

Despite my academic credentials and background, my chosen career path is in the Armed Forces.

Therefore, if anyone believes that they have the right to enforce Sharia here or stop abortion by any other means than the democratic process, I'll refer you to Sir Winston Churchill - "I'll see you on the beach, bring your own bayonet." (paraphrasing obviously)

[Ulrich]

I feel a bit offended that you kept us Germans from invading your island twice, and now you´re surrendering to some camel herders with a medieval religion ;). Now that´s what I call double standards, maybe Germany should sue you on the grounds of discrimination.

[RW]

While everyone is banging on about why polgygamy is wrong, can I just point out here that we are comparing like with unlike? We all know that "liberalism" is founded on the freedom of the individual and as such all kinds of sexual activities which in past times were held to be unacceptable (this applies to other activities which are not sexual too) are now at least legal. However, given that Christianity, Judaism and Islam all share the goal of assisting the individual and society to be chaste, what does each solution offer to the 'excess' women? In the event that a society does not have female infanticide (and the Qur'an explicitly forbids it), are women to suffer life-long celibacy, when they did not volunteer for it? Are we to say, "Get thee to the convent"? Do not forget that for many women sexuality also includes child-bearing, breastfeeding and child-rearing activities. Seriously, (whoever may or may not be at fault) think of all the young women left in war zones like Iraq where tens of thousands of young men have died(or the Central Asian states after they fought off the Russians - Tajikistan lost more than 100,000 young men out of a very small population). What would you do if you were one of those young women with fifty-plus lonely years ahead. Nowadays, in 'free' western societies freedom of women's sexuality often appears to be defined as merely the opportunity to copulate as often and with whoever we like. I don't mean everybody does this, but bizarrely it seems to be what is being demanded and 'defended'. But is it really what we want? See the feedback on the The Times article about man-boys if you want to see how much men appreciate this and women don't. Isn't the insistence on or 'offer' of lifelong celibacy for women merely repression? After the first and second world wars, was it not the excess of women which led to the breakdown of marriage and the family in Europe(the rate of STDS rose in the fifties and 'feminist' rhetoric is only a post-hoc justification)because women would nt be 'good' and keep away from other women's men? So, let's be honest here, either you are not religious at all, in which case the chaste society has no interest for you and you are probably quite happy to undermine marriage as a whole, or you are religious. What is your solution? Judaism allows polygamy, Islam allows polygamy. Frankly, even some Christian scholars have argued that Jesus didn't ban polygamy. In brief, monogamy means men and women are 'equal', but some women are more equal than others. And it's not working, anyway. 50+ percent divorce rate in the great US. Similar in the UK. Polygamy means men and women are not equal in their social roles, only their value, but all women are equal to each other in role and value (and all can marry and have children). Many women on this board have the 'reincarnation imagination' problem. This goes, "If I was reincarnated, I would be Queen Nefertiti (not the slave! or the toilet cleaner!)." So, of course, I am opposed to polygamy because(the great) I could never be the pitiful one left outside the great institution of monogamy, I would never be the second wife. A bit of advice on holding that view of yourself - pride goes before a fall. Another way of putting it if you are religious is "Don't tempt Him, He may teach you humility, yet".

[MB]

I have read a combination of rubish ideas and good comments. Even some of the commentators never read the Quran in their life. They blindly propagate their hatred and ignorance of Islam. The problem is in western countries people wants to listen their bad feelings and interprete things as they want. Their knowledge about Islam is shallow and supperficial. They main source of knowledge is the media.
I don't know the reason why the religion is blamed for mistakes done in Saudi, Afganistan or Somalia. Now a days Sharia is implemented in middle east mixed with culture and tradition. On top of that brutal and dictator leaders made things worst. The injustice, lack of democracy and rule of the law and no respect for human right are attributed to the political leadership not Islam. If the governments of middle east abided by the principles of Islam, there would be much better justice, respect for human right, rule of the law and demoracy with in the framework of the religion.
As we all know the very concept of libral democracy was born in Europe. But evil ideas like Nazisim, Facisim, Marksism, Racism are very, very recent strories in Europe and the attrocities and crimes done to humanity are the worst in human history. Still libral Europe is facing social crisis and errosion of moral values. Drug addiction, alchol drinking habit, family break down, crime, gang calture, prostitution, libral sex are rampant.
So, Westerners could learn a lot from Islam as far as they are open minded and ready for honest discussion. Hatred and propagation of shallow knowledge doesn't help.
To know about Islam it is very important to understand the social, political and economic context it grown up and became a system of all inclusive life guidance. Nobody imposed Sharia on anybody but muslims submitted them selves for the will of ALLAH.

[Mia]

So it's okay to have affairs... but if you call it a second marriage, it becomes evil. That makes sense.

This article is ridiculous. The Qur'an states two things:
(1) men may marry four women if they treat them equally, and
(2) NO man is ever going to be able to treat multiple wives equally.
The religious among us know that this means polygamy is effectively a trap to challenge the faith of a person. There are limited instants when it's ever really considered permissible under Sharia, e.g. if the couple are infertile. In the past, men often married widows to support and protect them. In modern times, polygamy is actually only really practised in certain countries - hardly ever found in the Levant, for instance, but a frequent cultural habit in the Gulf, often just for the sake of it.

We don't think sex is evil. We have a LAW that advises a min. amount of sex per period of time - i.e. practising Muslims have more sex than the average Westerner.

Adultery is equally punishable for both sexes under Sharia. Sexism is what skews that in practise - which is rife everywhere, not just the East.

As a Muslim woman, I pity the Western woman who thinks she's liberated when her body and sexuality are used to sell everything from food to cars. That's her choice, of course, to be used that way, but no-one has any right to tell me I'm oppressed by comparison. I come from a very conservative Muslim Middle-Eastern family where women have higher degrees and doctorates, and am myself a medic. My parents stress day and night about my marriage and to whom, but never dream of 'forcing' my hand in it. THAT is the reality of a majority of the moderate Muslim world - I am one of millions. It's pre-Islamic cultural habits and poverty-induced ignorance that brings about the stereotypes you all read about. No-one reports the positive realities of Islam - no-one cares, it doesn't fit with the popular image. But of course, you're all experts on what being a Muslim female is like. These days everyone is an expert on everything.

[Ali Khan]

Why don't you lot chill out and get a life? Don't you see that your arguments don't lead anywhere. ALL peoples, communities, races & religions are misrepresented by their minorities of wife oppressors/abusers, extremists, bigots, murderers, terrorists, paedophiles, rapists etc.

The bottom line is that Islam is not as bad as some particularly powerful people are desperately trying to make it out to be, there is no all encompassing Shariah Law Muslims want to live under, we already live with it everyday - the way we eat, drink, dress, pray, our family lives, our civil disputes and it all happpens quite easily within the rule of British Law which we respect and hold dear (just like the Jewish Beth Din works in the UK).

So instead of arguing over whose culture is best or worst, just try and understand it and don;t impose it on each other. Ok Children?

[Jacobitess]

This is an effective way of summing up for people who don't have the time to research the Qu'ran and Mideastern history. And it shows just how well women have always had it under the 'oppressive' patriarchal system of Christianity. Extreme feminists who have done their best to undermine the morality and family structure of the West ought to take a calm, rational look at history and see what Christ's word did to elevate the dignity of women and how His teachings took root in a culture that accepted Him.

[RW]

Mia, sister, amy I remind you that independent interpretation of the Qur'an is not permitted unless you hold ijaza in tafsir (which I think you probably can't as you have plainly studied other things which are also neede by our society)? You say a number of things, for example "The Qur'an states two things: (1) men may marry four women if they treat them equally, and (2) NO man is ever going to be able to treat multiple wives equally. The religious among us know that this means polygamy is effectively a trap to challenge the faith of a person." NOt really so. The scholars say that one marriage is better but up to four are permitted. If a man is unable to keep his eyes down with onl one wife, then a second wife is wajib (a duty).
You say: "There are limited instants (instances) when it's ever really considered permissible under Sharia, e.g. if the couple are infertile." This is not true at all. In Hanafi fiqh a woman may write a limitation in her marriage contract that if her husband takes another wife, she may have a divorce if she wants. In the other three schools no such clause is considered valid (you can add it but he is free to ignore it). In other words Islamc law does not consider one woman to have priority over another in terms of achieving the ability to keep her eyes down.
You say: "In the past, men often married widows to support and protect them." True, but they are free to marry whomever they see fit as long as the woman does not fall into a forbidden category (his wife's sister, for example).
You say, "In modern times, polygamy is actually only really practised in certain countries - hardly ever found in the Levant, for instance, but a frequent cultural habit in the Gulf, often just for the sake of it." You slander us in the Levant and in the Gulf, sister. You need to think whether you've got Queen Nefertiti syndrome.....!

[RW]

Jacobitess,
You say, "This is an effective way of summing up for people who don't have the time to research the Qu'ran and Mideastern history." What are you reerring to with the word "this", which argument?

You say, "And it shows just how well women have always had it under the 'oppressive' patriarchal system of Christianity." But Christianity is the religion which defined woman as the flesh of the devil. Not Christ, please note, but Christianity. Christ had littl to say about women.
You say, "Extreme feminists who have done their best to undermine the morality and family structure of the West ought to take a calm, rational look at history and see what Christ's word did to elevate the dignity of women and how His teachings took root in a culture that accepted Him." They have looked at Christianity and found the oppposite - of course, I agree that the the adoption of the Roman family structure (at the command of St Paul) has indeed established monogamy among most but not all Christians (polygamy survived in Britain until the sixteenth century), but it has the same faults as Roman marriage had - where they had plentiful 'concubinage', as my Latin teacher politely termed it, we have mass prostitution and promiscuity in "Christian societies". Can you, by the way, point to any time in British or European history where there has been a 'Christian' society? I would love to read something about one.
I'd be fascinated....

[Samantha Martin]

... from RW: "Nobody imposed Sharia on anybody but muslims submitted them selves for the will of ALLAH."

What rubbish.
1) Sharia has been forced on millions of people worldwide through war, murder, rape and intimidation. And is used to justify the perverted actions of its adherents.

2) The preposterous concept there is some fantasy god that muslims can blame for all that they say or do.

3) The world may be able to get on with its potential if western governments ban all brainwashing of innocent children with religious garbage. It should be treated exactly the same way as paedophilia: both destroy young lives.

The one thing that bothers me most about this "sharia" nonsense,especially in the UK is that under UK law all laws apply equally to everyone, should sharia be introduced does this mean that burka and hijab become the normal everyday working clothes for every woman and girl in the land ? Does this mean that my buddhist partner will not be allowed to be seen in the streets without me accompanying her ? does this mean that i will have to stop being a "house husband" as my partner will no longer be able to work? does this mean that as we are not married that i will be getting some officer of the Prevention of vice and the Protection of virtue comming to my home and taking my partner away to stone her to death for living in a "sinful" relationship ?

As the law applies equally to everyone , introduction of any sharia in to law in the UK would mean that this would have to happen. personally, i have nothing against anyone of any creed colour or religious faith, which cannot be said for members of many faiths including christianity, islam, hindism, judaism. Faiths which all claim to have the one word of god and that they are the only true believers, and all of which totally IGNORE