The parents whose faith let their daughter die untreated

The abuses of organized, established churches are often pointed to,  but a terrible story from Wisconsin demonstrates how "religious isolationists" making their own rules can be as disastrous.  Parents  who prayed as their 11-year-old daughter died of untreated diabetes have been charged with second-degree reckless homicide.
     Dale and Leilani Neumann  - she an aspiring preacher - were urged to get help for their daughter, but considered the illness "a test of faith" and thought Madeleine was under a "spiritual attack" . On Easter Sunday, she died after months of symptoms. The Neumanns each face up to 25 years in prison if convicted. They are not educationally subnormal.   Mr Neumann is a former policeman .  But they drew the conclusion - solipsistically - that the poor child's illness was" the devil is trying to stop Leilani from starting her own ministry".   Hard to sympathize. 

Comments

[helena]

Impossible to sympathise. They murdered their daughter. No different from 'honour killings' is it - to murder for your religion your own child.

[Carl Waring]

"They are not educationally subnormal."

I would challenge that statement. Anyone, and I mean *anyone* (sorry Rick), who believes that the Bible should be viewed literally is (imho) educationally subnormal.

These people had a Biblical basis for what they were doing (see James 5:14-15 : "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up."), but it didn't work and the poor girl died of a _treatable_illness_ solely because her parents' faith, the Christian faith, advocates prayer as the correct course of action in these circumstances.

Once again, 'god' is conspicuous by 'his' absence.

[bill]

Tragic that innocent children suffer and die for the blind dogmatic ignorance and narrow-minded, pig-headed arrogance of their parents. They deserve to go to prison, but are also victims of fundamentalist religious teaching that must be widely condemned and outlawed.

[bill]

If Jehovah's Witness parents let a child die of a treatable condition for want of blood products, shouldn't those parents also go to prison for negligently and deliberately contributing to the child's death?

[Rick Beekman]

These Kind Of stories always gives Christian faiths a bad name.

I have witnessed people instantly healed in services. I have also seen people not healed.

In any case we do not tell people to just be sick and pray The Lord heals you. If you are sick and feeling worse head for The Doctor or Hospital and keep praying!

[Jon Maharajah]

The scripture in James 5:14-15 does not refer to physical sickness. It refers to spiritual sickness in relation to sinning against God in a serious manner for which your prayrs alone are not enough to gain forgiveness. The context clearly shows this.Medical treatment is reccommended in the bible as far back as the Mosaic law as well as verses in the bible that reccommend that 'those who are ailing should seek a physician.' As always in the bible the context shows clearly in what way it should be applied.

[Alistair]

"I have witnessed people instantly healed in services."

Who was leading the services, Rick? Benny Hinn?

[Carl Waring]

Jon Maharajah:

James 5 13:18 - "Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops."

The message? If you're good and godly, pray for what you need and it will be given to you. Unless it involves diabetes, it appears.

[P.R]

I know everyone relies on God but i'm appalled at the parents as there were the facilities provided from God yet they didnt use it and they thought God would miraclulously remove diabetes from their daughter even though God provided the medicine to treat it.

[Rick Beekman]

Carl Waring;

My You are just chock full of negative remarks; People who believe the Bible literally are abnormal..Then reading the verse in James and not beleiving that. Carl That makes you an "Unbeleiver" Brother.

Just because in your Carnal Worldly Mind You don't Believe In The Word of God Or Anything Says Doesn't Make Your Beleifs Correct. Christianity is Pure Total faith in an Unseen God who created You..Me..And The Universe. One Day you'll Meet That Creator. You'll Either Meet him as Your Savior..Or As Your Judge.

The Good news Carl is He Already Shed His Sinless Blood For Know-It-Alls Like you and others. He made a Way For Us To Escape Eternal Damnation After we Die. I Was Smart Carl..I Know I Cannot Save Myself I Need His Help. If You Approach Him Acting Like A King He'll Treat You Like A Beggar. If However Approach Him With A humble Spirit Like A Beggar..He'll Treat You like A King!
It's a free Gift..Salvation. Why not get smart and seek him?

[Felix Turner]

Such stupid people. I agree Carl, you just cannot view the Bible literally. I am religious but I base my faith on my own feelings not on a 2000 year old book. I take what Jesus wanted but I don't listen to any Old Testament rubbish.

[john]

a classic case of "not my God" from Rick there.

Why is it, whenever someone sees Mary in a piece of toast, it is a sign from the lord, but whenever dogma shows it's consequences, it is "not what I believe".

I actually commend these people in the same way I commend muslim fundamentalists. They have their dogmas and they're faithful to them. Unlike most religious folks. If you believe it have the guts to follow it.

The fact it is wrong, is irrelevant. I have no time for these watered down religious types. I want witch burnings, heresy and torture. The doctrine of the bible supports their actions, and for any bible-believing person to criticise these people is hypocrisy.

They backed God against germ-theory and lost. It's a tragedy for the innocent victim, but as an atheist I wonder where these religious types get their morals from......Oh yeah.........

[Carl Waring]

Rick:

"My You are just chock full of negative remarks; People who believe the Bible literally are abnormal..Then reading the verse in James and not beleiving that. Carl That makes you an "Unbeleiver" Brother."

Well spotted Rick, I'm glad you cottoned on to that one.

"Just because in your Carnal Worldly Mind You don't Believe In The Word of God Or Anything Says Doesn't Make Your Beleifs Correct."

Spot on again Rick, two out of two! Incidentally this also goes for Christian beliefs, Muslim beliefs, Hindu beliefs, Zoroastrian beliefs, Pastafarian beliefs (may you be touched by His noodly appendage) et al. The thing that makes my 'carnal worldly' beliefs a touch more reliable than faith in a big bearded man in the sky is the presence of masses of evidence that contradict severeal of the most important biblical principles (ie God made the earth etc, resurrection, miracle healings etc) and the conspicuous absence of any kind of omnipotent benefactor over the last 2000 years at least! Even more so when you consider the pleas that must have been made to him/her/it by the faithful during the Holocaust, in Rwanda, in the crumbling twin towers, during the Soviet purges and so on.

"Christianity is Pure Total faith in an Unseen God who created You..Me..And The Universe. One Day you'll Meet That Creator. You'll Either Meet him as Your Savior..Or As Your Judge."

...or not at all because he's not there. Somehow that third option always seems to get overlooked...

Felix:

"Such stupid people. I agree Carl, you just cannot view the Bible literally. I am religious but I base my faith on my own feelings not on a 2000 year old book. I take what Jesus wanted but I don't listen to any Old Testament rubbish."

Except that Jesus _was_ a fan of the Old Testament, explicitly referring to it in several passages (see Matthew 22:31, John 10:35, Matthew 15:3, Matthew 12:3 among others) and even going as far as to say "Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18). So I'm afraid I have to agree with John:

"The doctrine of the bible supports their actions, and for any bible-believing person to criticise these people is hypocrisy."

[John]

Carl, it's also worth noting that Jesus said he had come to fulfil the OT prophecy.

Looks like Felix is burning with us - you get the beers, felix can pick up some salad and I'll get the barbie going.

Wasn't the first reference of Hell being an eternal burning place for bad people made by Jeshua, too?

So that's how loving our Lord, Father, Creator, Masterbation-watching skydaddy is.

I remember thinking my earth dad was harsh for making me wash the car for pocket money, bloody hell (and I do mean literally!!), good job I always believed he was my real dad or I dread to think what would have happened

[Candace O'Shea]

I believe if God heals you, you know it. Every person He or His deciples healed jumped up and were immediately healed. If you take the proper action go before the elders or a person with the gift of healing and are prayed for, you will be healed instantly. If you aren't healed, go to a doctor until your faith and those who are praying for you is strong enough to let God do the job. There may be other factors, I am not sure, but I do know what happened in the Bible and that is what I go by. I don't condemn those folks, I am sorry it happened they were trying to prove to God their faith. You cannot prove your faith to God and proving it to others is unnecessary. God knows how much faith you have. He knows a lot better than you.

[Rick Beekman]

Felix;

You stated;..But I base my own faith not on some 2000 year old Book.

Jeremiah 10 V 23; " O Lord I know the way of man is not in him; it is not in man that walks to direct his own steps".

Another words Felix your just another Victim of the Father of all liars..Satan. Jesus Christ is The Way..The Truth..and The life..Hels the only way.

[An American Observer]

How did those parents reconcile their belief in healing through prayer alone with the fact that the Apostle Luke was a physician?

God gave us brains, and it's tragic when people don't use them and their innocent child suffers a painful and drawn-out death.