Religious rape? Girls abducted and "forced to convert"

A worrying story out of Pakistan, where Christians are only around 2 per cent of the population. A Christian father  is allegedly trying without success to regain custody through the courts of his two pre-teen daughters who were kidnapped and made to convert to Islam.
    A judge in Punjab province apparently ignored pleas that Saba Younis, aged 12, and her 10 year old sister, Anila Younis,  had been kidnapped while on their way to their uncle's home.  He said the children's conversion is legal;  the kidnappers have 'married' the girls and claim that their father has no jurisdiction.   This is not a new crime: several earlier reports of Christian girls captured, often very young, and forcibly converted, raped and 'married' have come out of Pakistan, but so also have stories of Hindu girls similarly taken. Faithfreedom reports that the "trend" in Sindh province "is forcing the worried resident Hindu community to marry off their daughters as soon as they are of marriageable age or to migrate to India, Canada or other nations.Recently, at least 19 such abduction cases have occurred in Karachi alone, while several others have been reported in the media."

Comments

[David winkworth]

Why do Muslims in the UK not protest agianst such actions? We continually hear from Muslims how bad the West is with the so called cartoons of the prophet - surely this sort of thing is much much worse. Moderate Muslims where are you - do you even exist?

[B. Italy]

Oh what a wonderful thing Islam is...NOT

[Mohammed Zakaria]

If what the article says is true then Pakistan's Religous and seculer courts should abide by Islamic Law "There is no compulsion in Religion", furthermore Pakistan Ulema should look at these forced conversions and be intellectual and not emoitnal. Islamic law is very clear regarding non Muslim citizens of a Muslim land that they have same rights as Muslim citizens.

[leila]

How are we to deal with radical Islam which wants an Islamic world?

Perhaps, if another Muslim country is permitted to get the bomb, it will take the matter out of our hands.

[karim]

you are very very very laier
islam is the best honest relegion
but you must learn deeply right islam before open your mouth
allah (god) sent prophet muhammed for all population without any racism
and you can learn about the life of my prophet muhmmed .then the sun rises through your heart
i hope that .and i can helpe yuo to discover the islam

[brendan]

The oppression of non-muslims in Islamic lands goes unreported

[colin woodward]

i thought islam was a non agreesive religion not forcing people to go against thier own thoughts.

[Tony Cox]

Religion gave me the creeps from sunday school days in the late thirties. "....civilisation will not achieve perfection untill the last stone from the last place of worship falls on the last cleric and kills him". A rough quotation from Emile Zola, the French writer.

[Dean]

Islam the religon of hate crime!

[Andy]

you are very very very laier
islam is the best honest relegion
but you must learn deeply right islam before open your mouth
allah (god) sent prophet muhammed for all population without any racism
Posted by: karim

Well when you have an answer like this to the issue in question then it only goes to prove that you cannot debate with this religion. The world is seen through their eyes and their eyes alone - there will be no compromise and the sooner the liberals see this the better for all.

[Heath]

Forced conversion does not make the person a true adherent of the faith. It is simply an old way of humiliating someone, using religion. Pakistan has many problems as they seem to interpret religion according to their customs dictated by a patriarchical society.People should put into perspective all the angles & not jump on bashing religion, no religion has ever advocated forced conversions.

[Durrani, UK]

Basically these kinds of things, though appauling, happens in third world countries.But there is a bias on part of the west against some countries. It is never reported that every christmas in India Christians and their churches are burnt by the Hindus. Report without any bias and you will see pakistan is the best country especially as far as treatment of the minorities is concerned. There are many heavy voices with in the country, that arose in favour of them.

[Blunt]

Yet again, the media hinge on a singular case and blow it out of proportion. Perhaps the so-called journalist should right a balanced piece, equally mentioning the large Christian movement roaming through South America and Africa, converting the many to Christianity? The truth, and the facts, which the journalist ignorantly avoids, tarnishes the Islamic faith. Guide to religion and thought? Hardly.

[Darrell Monteith]

Islam is responsible for most of the world's religious oppression and terrorism. Do we need any greater inditement of this "faith". If they have God on their side why do they need to oppress Christian minorities in their countries.

[Freethinker]

religion in any of it's many flavours is a load of c***. sorry but that just about sums it up i'm afraid. i will admit that out of all the religions islam does seem to be the most violent and debased.

[Darrell Monteith]

This sort child abuse is of course condoned in islam as the "prophet" himself "married" a young girl of nine years.

[J Shah, Karachi]

Oh Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease another Pak* bashing opportunity - for your information, in Pakistan any girl that runs away from home with her boyfriend (which happens alot) are reported as kidnapped by their parents, so the police would take some action, otherwise the police just treat it as another runaway case.....
please educate yourself before publishing Bul****, and what’s the pic of the woman in a niqab accompanying this story all about?

[A Sutcliffe]

Karim: Your comments smack badly of not being able to face up to the realities of what is done under the name of Islam reeks of the backward attitude that Islam is constantly accused of and with good reason. Moderate muslims seem far and few between, When will Islam recognise that women are human beings not chattels. Never I fear. For all those Muslims who complain about my post, stand up and be counted and declare that what is happening to young girls forced to convert is wrong.

[adam deen]

Firstly, as a muslim Im disgusted by this news.
"Why do Muslims in the UK not protest agianst such actions?"

Well we do, Im one of them. I also organsiaed a demo for the relise of Gillian Gibbon outside the Sudanesse embassy.

As Bertrand Russell said " you cant judge a set of beliefs by its adherents.

Adam Deen

[alex]

muslims in the uk don't protest against islamic extremism because there is no such thing as a moderate muslim. moderate muslims are a figment of the imagination. ALL are a threat to british people and culture, and the sooner british people accept this FACT, and stop caring about being politically correct and start the repatriation of this immigrant community back to their own native lands,(remember, nearly the entire muslim population of the uk are of an immigrant background, with no historical right to be in britain.) the better it will be for everyone concerned.

[Eduardo Nogueira]

It is not the noble religion of Islam that is at fault here. It is the evil in men's hearts that seeks to pervert Islam for their own sordid ends. The same is true of any religion.

As a Christian, I am well aware of the evil perpetrated in the name of Christianity throughout the centuries.

It is only human nature that can twist the purest love into the vilest evil.

[Danish]

Kidnapping and forced conversion happens all over the Islamic world. I recently returned from Ethiopia and Egypt where these forced conversions are very common.

Mohammed Zakaria, “no compulsion in religion” was overridden by subsequent Koranic verses (such as 9:73 “O Prophet! Struggle against the unbelievers and hypocrites and be harsh with them”).

[MJ]

A worrying story coming out of the USA. Young teenage girls are plyed with drink and drugs and persuaded through peer pressure into making porn movies. once they make one, they are often coerced through physical violence, and other threats to make more movies. the coercion makes this legally definable as rape. the horryfying part of the story is the movies are OPENLY SOLD as ENTERTAINMENT on amazon.com!!!!! to christians who watch them for sexual gratification this is truly shocking, and as a muslim, I am glad we do not treat our women in such ways.

[Kris]

Karim, get a grip. Whilst all the Muslims I know are normal rational people that understand that non-Muslims have a right to exist, there is a significant number of subscribers to your "best honest relegion" which sadly distort its teachings. These people claim that:

1)Non-believers are dogs that need to be killed
2)There can be no compromise. As a Christian, my daughters should be raped and married in order to be converted
3) Violence is the only way to get their point across.
4) A silly cartoon requires a call to arms and mass murder
5)

I put it to you that a significant number of today's conflicts and terror attacks revolve around MUSLIM extremists....how are "best and honest"

Karim, if you are indeed one of the good guys, then don’t preach at us, but focus on the problems that exist in YOUR community. Ditto to David Winkworth. Moderate Muslims should take the initiative. Stop moaning about your rights and realize that you have an obligation to society to remove terrorism and extremism from within your communities.

[Albert]

Oh, you absolutely must introduce Sharia in the UK!

God and Archbishop of Canterbury say so.

And if anyone objects, there is legislation to deal with them.

[Nicolaus]

Well I believe it does happen because it happens in most of the Arab countries and I was reading also I was reading in a couple of websites that it is allowed to the Muslim to marry young girls even if she was under 12 years old as it is written
in the Quran as سورةالطلاق 65 أيه4 sorah divorce 65 ayah 4

And who Esn of Mahid from women helped to arrange three months and who did not lap loads and the mandate given birth to his son is dead God makes it easier peremptory

وَاللَّائِي يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِنْ نِسَائِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَاثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّائِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ وَأُولَاتُ الْأَحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَنْ يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ وَمَنْ يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يَجْعَلْ لَهُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِ يُسْرًا

If you looked to the interpret of Ebn Kaseer you can find that it is very obvious that is allowed to the Muslims to marry very young girls. Not just this but also the Muslims prophet Mohamed he married a young girl Aisha.

As in hadith number 4738 صحيح البخاري النكاح
Sahih Al-Bukhari , Marriage ,number 4738

(Tell us Mohammed Ben Youssef Sofiane Tell us about Hisham from his father about Aisha, may Allah be pleased by
The Prophet peace be upon him married a daughter of six years and was a daughter of nine and she stayed nine)
‏حدثنا ‏ ‏محمد بن يوسف ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏سفيان ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏هشام ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبيه ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏عائشة ‏ ‏رضي الله عنها ‏)
‏أن النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏تزوجها وهي بنت ست سنين وأدخلت عليه وهي بنت (تسع ومكثت عنده تسعا

[Young Muslim]

As a british born muslim i feel complete sympathy for this poor family. Religion is a very personal choice and in no way should anyone be forced to be something that they do not believe in.
The judge in question should be punished for condoning such behaviour.

[David Vinter]

Somebody somewhere is using their so called 'religion' for what I call a simple---Loss of Marbles!

[Shannon M]

Blunt: You have contradicted yourself by saying that the media has blown it out of proportion and then go on to compare it to Christians converting people in other countries. Have you read of a case where Christians have kidnapped young girls, raped and married them?

Thought not..

[Blunt]

Typical of the readers of this article to fly off the tangent and cast their 2 cents worth into criticising Islam. Clearly the journalist wrote spiteful piece which she probably got information from her local. The other critics of this article just went off on one citing that Islam is the bane of all violence, death and destruction in the world. For those latter types, go get educated and do some travelling to broaden you understanding. What you fail to understand is that you don't get in the media Christian dictator Hitler massacres Jews, or Christian leader Milovich captured.. Do you wander why? Probably not, hence you lack of intellectual ability.

[Arvi]

Why am I not surprised! The weak coalition governemnt is enabling the extremists to become bolder.Its about time the Pakistanis took extremism seriously, rather than pandering to the oppostion extremeist parties; The Tabligeeh Jamaat and Jamaat Islami who are all extremely dangerous and anti-women's rights organisations!

[Alex (but not the racist one above)]

This post has led to some very racist comments. This is the danger of pulling out poorly sourced stories, which are tendentiously anti-Muslim.

[Aggie]

Shannon -
aren't the Latter Day Saints a branch of Christians?
What about the recent forced marriage and rape of children in Texas case of the fundamentalist cult there?

Thought so....

[Faisal]

This is a case of criminal behaviour so can all you Muslim baiters, Islamaic proselytisers, liberal bashers and Shariah alarmists please go and put your tuppence in somewhere else. Maybe you can meditate on the nature of human cruelty and how it is exacerbated by ignorance and intolerance?

[Pip]

J Shah Children of 10 and 12 are not running away with boyfriends. This desperate need for brides comes from there being too few females. There are 6 million too few females. And this stems from the dreadful way females are treated in Pakistan at every level.

[MIke Brannigan]

Islam and sharia law is fundamentaly against the basis of western civilization. When all islamic countries allow toatal freedom of religion - and there are non out there - I may start to consider muslims with some respect. Until then I cannot,

[Brody]

Blunt: Your comment is unrelated. The article is about children being kidnapped, raped and forced into religion and marriage. Unfortunately, it is within the Muslim community. The acts mentioned should be punishable under law. This article is bringing to light the fact that it is not.
Aggie: They were not Latter Day Saint but Fundamentalist Mormon’s and authorities believe it isn’t about the religious beliefs of the members but more about the systematic abuse of children.

[Fatee]

oh god!
did u even think of other possibilities???
some pakistani think they r muslims,or its because they were not taught well enough of their own religion!...how can u judge with this few information,there can be muiltifaceted reasons!
a true muslim,whos is educated and has much knowlegde oh his/her religion will find it wrong to force a person to become a muslim or any-other.it is all in the hands of an individual to make a decsion.
unfortunately most muslims in some countries are blind to their own religion,most are drifted away and distracted.seems like the kidnapper was not aware!
hope everyone will not judge or critise any religion,bcz its unfair and they have no right to do so.
thank u for your time :)

[Fatee]

blame the person,not the religion

[B.Antes]

It seems par for the course that when this kind of evil is exposed some deluded people parrot the word 'racist' ad nauseum.To deny evil is no different than partaking in it.

[Kris]

Clearly there are some racists here that are making inappropriate comments (ALEX) but to deny that there isn't a problem and to use arguments such as "yeah but guess what the Christians do" is just childish (Shannon M)

[Kris]

Oh, to Shannon M, forgot to mention that the so called "christian" dictators and criminals that you mention don't tend to claim "for the glory of god I am killing all those that I see fit."

[Lisa E.]

Shannon M - What about the Fundamentalist Mormons in Texas? The genocide of Srebrenica? The Siege of Sarajevo? The Crusades? There are plenty of historic and present-day examples of extrememist Christians. Bosnian Serb war crimes suspect Radovan Karadzic had support from many in the Serbian Orthodox Church and the church has a long history of complicity in the regions violent nationalism. No one religious group has cornered the market on extremist behaviour and Christians are just as guilty as those they are wont to throw stones at.

[Rick Beekman]

Too Aggie; The fundamentalist Church of the Mormons are no more a "Christian" Church then your local Pub is.

Christians Don't lure young girls for sex. Perverts and Pedophiles do.

All the other comments about how "Christians" committed this atrocity or some outrageous act is simply not true.

A true Christian has the Mind of Christ and has nothing to do with committing acts of violence..Rape..Child molestation...Watching Videos of Child Rape etc is of The Devil not of true followers of Christ. So for Muslims and those on here claiming to be "Christian" learn the real facts of who true Christians really are before you throw out accusations.

As far as what happned in Pakistan. If it happned here in the U.S. The Law would find them and bring them to justice.
None of the 50 U.S. States that I'm aware of would let a 9-14 year old Girl to legally get married even if The Girl And her Parents Wanted too. If she is kidnapped an "Amber Alert" is issued nationwide. If the pedophile and she is found 0The pedophile is going to prison no ifs ands or buts.
The United States protects Woman and children and Elderly. I know people skirt the law everyday but if they get caught......!!

[Blunt]

BRODY: My comments are justifiable. My point which you are failing to understand is the fact the journalist incited this nasty barrage of comments because of the addition of a religious faith. If that was removed, and the title was "Young girls forced into marriage" and discussed the rational - poverty, developing country, lack of education and so forth - then it would of been an article worthy of praise. If you look into the matter, you will realise it is not religion that is the driving factor but parental pressure, financial gain, and blatant lack of education. Drop the Islamic, Muslim and religious connotations.

[Rich]

Kris said: 'Oh, to Shannon M, forgot to mention that the so called "christian" dictators and criminals that you mention don't tend to claim "for the glory of god I am killing all those that I see fit."'
You think so? OK, have a look at the last paragraph in Chapter 2 of 'Mein Kampf', by the supposedly atheist Adolf Hitler... "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."

[Rania]

J Shah, Karachi - the only people who think girls of 10 and 12 either want or have "boyfriends" to run off with are lonely priests and perverts. Are you one of these, or did you misread the ages in the article?

As far as older girls go, the most likely reason that parents in Pakistan report kidnap instead of elopment is that the latter represents an unacceptable blot on the family honour. Kidnap gives the girl a respectable excuse so she can return home and still get married, be part of the community etc - this may, perversely, be a loving act designed to protect her, also sisters/brothers whose marriage prospects are at risk. It was not so long ago that similar beliefs held in England - witness "Pride and Prejudice", where an elopement imperils the whole family's future, while blaming the man and killing him in a duel is considered a cure-all.

Often of course, parents blame the guy because they just can't accept their sweet girl has such naughty desires. That's a pretty universal parental blind spot.

To go back to this case, nobody's saying this doesn't happen in other countries but firstly, in most places the courts wouldn't condone it - and secondly, just because it is universal is no reason to brush it under the rug in Pakistan. That is like ignoring the tumour in your lung because you have one in your leg.

[starling]

Now, let me see. Where was Christianity 500 years ago?

Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity, so it is basically in the "crusade" and "Spanish inquisition" stage, and in the stage where people, especially the commoners, would believe what their priests said blindly, without question (or else!).

Remember what happened to Christianity after that: it tried to conquer the world - at all cost- and did rather well for itself. Is it any wonder people are worried about Islam?

[breakerslion]

Reading the comments on this story is also enlightening. Bunch of rants, bunch of people making the usual sweeping generalizations and showing a general ignorance along with their willingness to jump on the impotent outrage bandwagon. And then, you get something like this:

"Oh Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease another Pak* bashing opportunity - for your information, in Pakistan any girl that runs away from home with her boyfriend (which happens alot) are reported as kidnapped by their parents, so the police would take some action, otherwise the police just treat it as another runaway case.....
please educate yourself before publishing Bul****, and what’s the pic of the woman in a niqab accompanying this story all about?"

- Posted by: J Shah, Karachi | 23 Jul 2008 09:07:21

12 and 10 J. Shah. Isn't that a little young to have "boyfriends"? You read something like that and suddenly the generalizations don't look so unfair. I begin to wonder how many steps away some cultures are from throwing poo at each other.

[breakerslion]

Here is another tidbit from the comments above:

"Christians Don't lure young girls for sex. Perverts and Pedophiles do.

All the other comments about how "Christians" committed this atrocity or some outrageous act is simply not true.

A true Christian has the Mind of Christ and has nothing to do with committing acts of violence..Rape..Child molestation...Watching Videos of Child Rape etc is of The Devil not of true followers of Christ. So for Muslims and those on here claiming to be "Christian" learn the real facts of who true Christians really are before you throw out accusations....

Yes, and "No true Scotsman" would play the game of golf.

US prisons are full of Christians. You want to explain that to them? Being able to disown any undesirable person calling themselves Christian really skews the success rating of your religion!