Merseyside derby means more to Everton, but a good spanking wouldn't go amiss

The big clash at Anfield has everyone talking. It's a big matchup of rivals who were once part of the same team but are now increasing bitter antagonists. Yes, Hicks v Gillett is turning out to be a stormer.

Everton? That's just a bit of local difficulty.

Of course, beating Everton will be a nice way of erasing the memories of last week and the events at Old Trafford. And it'll serve as a nice warm-up for a big Champions League clash with Arsenal.

But biggest game of the season? Only in the crazy world of the Bitter Blue.

Relations between the two sets of fans have deteriorated in recent years. It's increasingly hard to have a rational conversation with an Evertonian.  The phrase, "If it wasn't for Heysel" has become a destructive mantra that has changed the nature of the relationship between the two sets of fans. For some, the shame of Brussels was that it stopped the 'People's Club' from claiming their rightful place as the best team in Europe. The 39 dead? Extras in Everton's "tragedy". It's deluded nonsense on so many levels but, for too many, it has come to be seen as the moment when Everton's destiny changed, when they were robbed of their chance to be a big club.

It has spawned a new ugliness in the city on derby day. Last year, there were Evertonians in the Anfield Road end making gestures mocking the Hillsborough dead and and holding up copies of The Sun to antagoinse the home fans. This was never quite "the friendly derby" of popular fiction but the younger elements on each side can't even remember a time when it felt cordial.

Which is a shame. Especially for those who remember the mid-80s. Then, for the FA Cup Final and Charity Shield games, thousands of Scousers arrived on the same trains at Euston, red and blue ski hats mixed up as we stated our collective identity with chants of "Merseyside".

The derby has become a much bigger game for Everton than us. And that galls them more than anything. Recalling the old days, I wish they weren't so resentful.

Looking forward, a good spanking at Anfield would put Everton in their place and make them even more bitter. I could live with that. All in the spirit of comradeship, of course...

TONY EVANS

Comments

[Elaine]

Every club including Liverpool has their share of idiots. There isn't one club in the country that can take the moral highground. I found Tony's piece to be inflammatory written as it was on the eve of a derby game, but also largely accurate. With the exception of the Sun waving incidents (I've never witnessed such a thing personally)it does strike a chord with a lot of 'Reds'. In many respects Everton's identity is largely shaped by it's relationship with Liverpool FC. Central to that relationship in recent years has been the whole issue of Heysel. Hence,whenever Everton play away in Europe there usually follows a whole host of banners refering to the tradgedy in some way. '39 Italians can't be wrong' or 'Sorry we're late - trouble with the neighbours' 'Others did the crime, we did the time' and so on. Don't think so? Just google them, they're out there. Unfortunately derby days have become less friendly in recent years which is a shame considering the magnificent way in which Everton fans responded to and helped Liverpool fans in the immediate aftermath of Hillsborough. Thankfully there are still plenty of old school reds and blues around who deplore the actions of a growing minority on both sides who think it right to sing about Lescott, Gerrard's kid, Heysel, Hillsborough and so on. However, unless more is done to address the mindlessness and it's underlying causes, 'the old school' might well find itself in the minority in years to come.

[Greg]

Excellent piece Tony. Shame the Echo have conveniently remained silent over the years regarding the Hillsborough, Heysel and Michael Shields insults by fans of the small peoples club. Have fun in Kirkby lads....

[Norwegian Wood]

The article is totally spot on. The small club from Kirkby have massively sunken since the days when we had a healthy rivalry in the 1980's. Now bitterness is the dish served every other week at the Pit. I guess us Reds should feel sorry for you, what with it being 13 years since you last won something.

[Rob]

Strikes me as a typical Liverpool fan. Triumphalist, with nothing to be triumphant about.

Still, you enjoy that CL qualifying tie against Dynamo Nobody, won't you?

[Rory]

Last season a man, probably in his thirties - certainly old enough to know better - stood at the front of the Anfield Road away section mimicking getting crushed, and mimicking 'pushing a wall'.

This was well noted at the time by people in both the home and away section. The person was (and I'm sorry to stereotype against my own) was wearing a rather loud sky blue tracksuit. He hardly blended in.

After the match I remember an Evertonian coming into a Liverpool pub apoligising for him and berating his fellow fans. He told a story of having to have a stern word with two young lads by him in the away end about mocking Hillsborough. The two lads never came back to their seat after half time. He was aghast at the fact no-one around him seemed bothered enough to speak out.

It was also noted that before the game a gang of young Everton lads were escorted by the police (friendly derby eh) through Stanley Park. Some waving copies of The Sun.

Maybe it's such a small minority that it's worth keep 'in-house'. But when so few on the inside seem reluctant to admit it's happening (some of the comments on here are almost bordering the realms of delusion, particularly regarding Heysel; the songs, the flags, the phoney memorials - think on eh), then maybe it does need the likes of this piece to rock the boat.

Yours,

A ticket snatching Norwegian

[EJ Ruane]

Some Evertonians seem shocked and/or suprised by this piece.

Why?

It does not surprise me when the sun rises in the morning because...that's what it does.

It does not surprise me when the Bee heads towards the flower because...that's what they do.

And when Liverpool supporters point the finger at others, while denying all responsibility for their own disgusting actions over the years, it's no surprise because...

[Paul]

Well done Tony for a great and accurate article. Seems to have hit a nerve!

[Adam Knight]

As a Liverpool fan I find myself agreeing with the Evertonians posting here. A ridiculous piece and a blatant wind up. Glad we won but only because we got ourselves a bit of daylight there, This Tony fella does need a reality check.

[yelohomer]

I can't ever remember Liverpool bringing out a dvd after winning the second game of the season. Like Everton did last year.Evertonians seem to forget their disgaceful behaviour at the 2001 Goodison derby for the minutes silence.

[meredithmathieson]

No, of course the Blues aren't bitter: I must have misheard the songs TODAY about Michael Shields, Steven Gerrards baby and ,of course, that perennial favourite 'murderers'.
Don't mind the 'Everton fans welcome Liverpool fans to Merseyside' banner - that's proper banter - but far too many Blues are bitter. End of.

[stephen whelan]

Shocking article, but not surprising. Liverpool fans are nothing but predictable. Whenever backed into a corner they always pass blame. It wasnt us it was them. Same as this article to suggest that Everton fans are the reason why the derby is full of hatred is laughable. First of all the derby has never been friendly. The freindly tag only came about from press pr after Everton supported Liverpool after hillsborough. A fact that seems forgotten in this article. Evertonians lost friends and family also in 1989 but this is forgotten.

Heysel is a sore point with not only Everton fans but many others effected by the ban that had nothing to do with us. Why should we suffer for someone elses wrong doings. The fact it took liverpool 21 years to say sorry to Juventus doesn't hold much hope for an apologize to all the other English teams effected.

Liverpool are a dying club who's spark is dimmer then ever as always when under pressure try to blame others in this case Everton. Its Evertons fault, , it wasn't us it was the Greek police was shouted the other year when Liverpool fans stormed the turnstiles at the Champions league final and got the tag worst fans in Europe. Lightning very rarely strikes twice never mind three times. So before pointing the finger at Everton take a cold hard look at yourself and issue an apologies to all Evertonians you idiot

[JOHNk]

How do you sleep at night? You should be ashamed of yourself.
You ARE the problem of hostile Derbys. 45,000 go each year, most share cars and a pint there and back , but you are not a real Merseysider, you are evil.

[Roy]

What a belter you are its just as big a game for liverpool as it is for everton, we can qualify for the uefa cup ane weve had a really good season if u dont finish fourth and qualify for the champions league then it would be a disaster, as for us blues being bitter every kopite i speak too these days are getting more and more bitter as the seasons go on.

[stagros]

deluded pratt

you'll get over it one day maybe

[Tony Connor]

Tony, I think your rather jaundiced comments could easily apply to Manchester United fans' opinion of your good Nordic selves.

It's somewhat ironic that you choose the Murdoch owned Times website to vilify a tiny minority Everton fans for tasteless references to Hillsborough.

Munich songs v Man U, bags of urine thrown at kids...death threats... how very retro.

Your expensively assembled team of superstars are a whopping TWO (count 'em) points ahead of Everton going in to the derby. If I may paraphrase The Stone Roses..wasn't this the year that was going to be THE ONE..ahem..just like the previous 18?

And Finally Esther..
"..and there is, at times, so much the feel of the last days of the Roman Empire at Anfield these days that it would be no surprise if Caligula took over the club and appointed Red Rum as his director of football."
Source: Today's Telegraph

All together now.."When you walk.....

[Tony Connor]

Tony, I think your rather jaundiced comments could easily apply to Manchester United fans' opinion of your good Nordic selves.

It's somewhat ironic that you choose the Murdoch owned Times website to vilify a tiny minority Everton fans for tasteless references to Hillsborough.

Munich songs v Man U, bags of urine thrown at kids...death threats... how very retro.

Your expensively assembled team of superstars are a whopping TWO (count 'em) points ahead of Everton going in to the derby. If I may paraphrase The Stone Roses..wasn't this the year that was going to be THE ONE..ahem..just like the previous 18?

And Finally Esther..
"..and there is, at times, so much the feel of the last days of the Roman Empire at Anfield these days that it would be no surprise if Caligula took over the club and appointed Red Rum as his director of football."
Source: Today's Telegraph

All together now.."When you walk.....

[Tony, Liverpool]

Better than ever in LFC's 'it's not our fault' stakes.

So Everton fans proudly take their place on the (crowded) podium next to Chelsea, the Belgian authorities, The Sun, West Yorkshire Police, the Bulgarian authorities, UEFA's ticketing organisers, Athens police, out-of-towners, the Americans, Steve Bennett, Pat Partridge, Millwall, bent European referees, Tony 'H' Wilson and no doubt the slow ambulance driver taking Alan Smith to hospital with a broken leg.

Yes, we have more than our share of dk-heads that follow us but this constant lfc victim complex is laughable.

[fairfella]

4 points adrift by next weekend, who'll be bitter then...

[dave]

haha. Brilliant. That's a great impression of someone who doesn't care about everton, and has no time for them! It would be interesting to see how much time you dedicate to things you actually care about. Let's face it, the red lot are going on the offensive, i see it as nerves, why? Because liverpool are no closer to winning the league than they were 10 years ago, despite spending money hand over fist. Forget about everton and carry on worrying about how to become man utd, it's obviously what all liverpool fans long for. As for everton, a side that is minding it's own business, concentrating on improving season on season, setting realistic goals. But i suppose you wouldn't understand that. Good luck for your title challenge next year, or was that last year? Or this year? Sorry i can't keep up.

[David James]

Uneducated rubbish from a red who probably perpetuates the myth of the 'sky four' only to fear losing being part of (if only a minor bit-part - scene over by the end of September) that 'illustrious' club. The bitterness comes from Liverpool supporters who become more and more frustrated as they drift into the'oblivion' that is ordinary premiership life (i.e. distinctly avearge) despite the vast amounts spent on poor french/spanish imports. Liverpool are as likely to win the premiership as Everton, Villa and City are...infact as likely as Newcastle! And that buddy is what galls them more than anything.

[Mike Turner]

Those very few fans who do that should be ashamed of themselves. You, however, make an assertion that it represents the true Evertonian. That makes you a shameful idiot!

[Jay]

Ironic really. You could rewind 7 days and substitute Liverpool for Man Utd, replace Everton with Liverpool and Heysel for Munich.
Not so clever now, eh Doug?

[Dave Dix]

The worst thing about this piece is the FABRICATION insinuating Everton fans were holding up copies of The Sun and mocking the Hillsborough victims.

Not only is it totally inaccurate and slanderous towards Everton, You are using a fabricated scenario using the victims of Hillsborough in a poor attempt to have a dig at us.

If I was one of the victims families I would be absolutely livid at such an article.

[Dave Furness]

Mr Evans,

If you are employed by The Times in any position other than Chief Fantasist - then the newspaper's HR department need to have a long hard look at themselves.

I could catalogue Liverpool supporters many indescretions but I think UEFA best summed up your following as 'The Worst Behaved Supporters In Europe.' That is a substantiated claim - something that you are unable to do with any of your claims regarding Everton supporters. As a side note Toe (can I call you Toe?) isn't that the point of good journalism; to offer insight and comment backed up by evidence and facts? Think about it. The good natured Cup finals you mention all took place after Heysel, didn't they? There's that problematic issue of evidence again. It's a pain isn't it?

If you claim that Everton fans used Hillsborough/Heysel and the Sun to antagonise Liverpool's support why was this not reported anywhere at all?

As for this being Everton's 'most important game of the season' - are you trying to claim that LFC are in a position to be challenging Man United, Arsenal and Chelsea for the league? (Tip: have a look at the league table -pesky facts again, I know!)Isn't the financial structure of LFC geared around qualifying for the Champions league? That would make this game more important for you than it would do for Everton I would imagine. If Everton do lose on Sunday it will be disappointing but we won't be facing dire financial consequences if we do.

Finally, I invented the banana. Any chance I could have the number for your HR department? It's is for a job I'm thinking of applying for. Ta.

[tony]

and no one ever sang the munich song at righteous anfield?

you are a pathetic rabble rouser.
to me and most evertonians the european cup was irrelevant in
the wake of heysel.

the first time i ever heard it mentioned in a big way was by a west ham fan - martin samuel.

[Stuey]

Sadly us blues have used the Heysel disaster as an excuse for our problems for far too long. COYB

[Bitter?]

You seem to be the bitter one here mate and your oft repeated mantra: Bitter Everton, Game means more to Everton, blah, blah, blah is giving your, typical, kopite view away for what it is, Phoney!

Evertonians goading you about Hilsborough, news to me me la. Although I have to say the way you fail to mention any responsibility for Heysel, and it took the club 20 years to officially acknowledge it, is the real insult to the 39 people who lost their lives.

You're entitled to your views, but views like this should be in an acknowledged, honestly bitter, deluded LFC fanzine, like the Liverpool Echo!

[Paul B]

Ha ha, I can see you're not bitter, devoting a full article to slating Everton.

Funny that there's no mention of cups of excrement thrown at Everton fans at Anfield last year or the years of Munich '58 jibes from the Kop.

Admittedly, Man Utd is a bigger game for Liverppol fans. That's because they're all bitter at United's succcess and it's all part of the office banter down in Devon.

Most Everton fans are too busy enjoying their up and coming team and laughing at the pathetic posturing of the Sons of Shankly et al to drag up the shameful events of 1985.

[Joe Doherty]

Typical Kopite what is really sickening about your club and fans isn't that you are mostly whanabe scousers from down south Norway etc but that you are forever going on about justice for the 96 yet not once have you done anything to recognise your part in the Hysel tragedy the fact that it stopped Everton from competing in the Eurpean Cup is not what bothers us it's your hipocracy.

[Paul Johnston]

For a supposed professional journalist, pretty tame stuff. I can only assume you talk of resentment, bitterness and delusion with tongue firmly in cheek so as to not choke on the irony. The fact of the matter is that whilst Liverpool aspire to party with United, Arsenal and Chelsea at the top table, they in fact are jockeying for position as best of the rest with their local neighbours despite their enormous financial superiority and differing ambitions coming into the season. As 2004/2005 was written off as a blip to the usual procession of the Big Four (sic), it can now be said for the first time in a long time Everton are giving Liverpool a genuine run for their money. Cue the predictable bile from Kopites referring to Evertonian bitterness and delusion.

To depict the 39 Juventus fans that died at Heysel as some sort of pawn in a petty game is insulting to their memory and is typical of the attitude of some, not all, Liverpool fans. Let us not forget that the club has only relatively recently got around to actually apologising. The event is forever a stain on Liverpool due to the tragic loss of life. True, the repercussions afterwards have been damaging to the development of Everton Football Club (nowhere near as damaging as the mismanagement of the club over the years), but do not confuse the facts in order to trivialise matters.

Might I also ask, having been to the several Anfield derbies since Hillsborough, what the hell you are on about when you refer to ‘gestures mocking the Hillsborough dead.’ Let me remind you Tony that Hillsborough was an event that affected the whole of the city. Everton played an FA Cup semi-final that day and it could easily have been fans of Everton dying on those terraces. I married into a red family, I have red mates. I can categorically state that I have never seen or heard any ‘gestures’ that you refer to. Whilst I agree that the relationship is becoming more and more antagonistic, if there is one thing that unites both sets of fans on Merseyside it is Hillsborough. After all of the diatribe written in the Sun, I would ask you to take a long, hard look at yourself Tony before putting your name to such utter rubbish in future.

If your piece was designed to stoke the flames before Sunday, well done. However, don’t sit in your comfortable office complaining that the once friendly derby is getting more nasty.

[Boo]

In the shell of a nut sir...well played

[P. Dempsey]

Very sad that a paper that does such excellent football wrtie up's allows this type of personal progoganda.

Rants such as stating that Everton fans dont care about what happened to the people at Heysel is on a par with the Daily Star

Very Sad

[Stu]

Your comments show that you lot are the bitter ones , do liverpools fans not sing about harold shipman killing mancs ? do they not sing songs about George Best ? Did they not attack an ambulance with a stricken alan smith in it ? Did they not steal tickets from their own fans at the cl final ? I think you should take a serious look at your own fans before criticising ours , after all uefa did agree that kopites are the worst fans in europe

[Rob Kavanagh]

Thanks for this comment "Only in the crazy world of the Bitter Blue." i'm a blue and love Everton FC with all my heart, i couldn't care less what Liverpool do but thanks for putting me in my place. Ironic how Everton are called bitter but you write such garbage trying to claim you don't care, ah well i think i'll go and buy a decent rag maybe THE SUN.

[Matthew Wadkin]

Dear Tony

Being a Bitter Evertonian" I would just like to make a quick few comments on your article. While I can't disagree with your comments about our supporters sometimes seeming bitter, I feel the phrase Pot, Kettle, Black seems true here. I take it you have never been to anfield or Old Trafford when the "Greatest Supporters" in the world have held their arms out wide imitating a crashing plane at their man utd counterparts. So please don't be trying to pin this just on Everton supporters, as I don't think it is Everton supporters sending death threats to George Gillette do you? I also suspect you don't speak to any genuine Liverpool supporters just the ones who travel the country to come to anfield because their own local team isn’t that good!! I would want you to speak to my friends who are season ticket holders at anfield and travel the country and Europe following there team. You know who they say is the biggest game of the season, and no it’s not Man Utd or even Chelsea. It’s the thought of playing Everton and beating them, is the one they want the most because in the pub after the game they have the bragging rights. I don't know where you have got these delusional ideas from, maybe you would like to share them with me. I'm sure my friends will be embarrassed by your article when I met up with them before the game tomorrow for a pint.

Oh by the way I hope you do spank us, at least it may justify the money you have spent this season and only being 2 points ahead of us.

The last sentence is called irony something I think you are missing.

I look forward to your reply
Matthew Wadkin

[Darren Cowzer]

Hopefully the fact that the Derby means more to Us will result in an Everton Win tomorrow.
Liverpool's rightfull place this season is 5th place and currently trailing Chelsea in 4th by 9 points.
Everton's rightfull place is currently 3rd - see link -
http://www.rightresult.net/
Shame on you for wrapping up your red bitter bile in an article padded out by Cordial Nostalgia.

[Daniel Coupe]

Hi Tony,

That was a brilliant read, just so I can clarify what you are saying:

1) Have you got any pictures of Everton fans holding up the Sun or making choking gestures? Fans I have spoken to who where did not see any of this.

2) Did you not see the reaction of Carragher at the last derby, did you win the world cup that day as it looked like you had won something. Not a bad celebration for a game that isnt that big.

3) How can you justify cheapening the deaths of people at Heysel and then use the deaths at Hillsborough to slight the names of Everton fans? Surely this is poor journalism?

I trust you to write just an inflamatory article if you were to lose and then take the moral high-ground that you obviously have over Everton fans.

Thanks,
Daniel

[Matthew Griffiths]

Good piece. The generation of Evertonians in the 80's knew what the significance of Heysel was. The next generation have no understanding, so you get nonsense such as "Wallpushers" and "39 Italians can't be wrong".

[Alex McGregor]

Tony, my irony-o-meter has just exploded.

[Sean Stoney]

I will be sending a letter of coplaint to the press complaints comission on the grounds of inaccuracy.

I was at the Anfield Derby last season and there were absolutley no instances of evertonians waving copies of the sun newspaper.

To publish such fabrication as fact is misleading, extremely irresponsible and could inflame hatred and lead to possible public disorder.

Why on earth is this tasteless article still available to view?

[Mick Barnes]

Is the fella who wrote this for real???

I notice he left out any mention of throwing poo in cups and pushing over ambulances.......

I hope that article satisfied your need to have a dig at us, seems now were suddenly the targets again as united, chelsea and arsenal are years ahead of yous.

Go on cry about money,the americans, chelsea and everyone else you blame when you dont get your own way.

Godd luck for tomorrow...beaut.

[Tom Kelly]

AS a Murdoch publication you should be aware of the consequences of making unsubstantiated allegations about the behaviour of Football fans, as you have here.
Eventually one of your journalists and the paper apologised to Liverpool fans for Hillsboro. I think its rich that Liverpool fan should write what he has for a Murdoch paper with no evidence that what he says happened happened.

[Macca78]

This is a shameful article. The "author" should hang his head. The editor should really know better.

[Robert Balmain]

So the truth hurts!

[tommy h]

tony, you forgot to mention the liverpool fans who spat at 2 kids (7/8 years old, i'm not sure) and punched an old fella as they were being booted out of the main stand at this season's goodison derby

i saw it, it was horrible - a bit like your piece

[P.White]

A bigger game for Everton than Liverpool...why is that ?. Liverpool NEED fourth place to service their huge debt. Since the Premiership started Liverpool have finished above Man Utd ONCE, and this season will be the eighth time Liverpool have finished closer to Everton points wise than they have to Man Utd. Interesting why Liverpudlians think their biggest rivals are Man Utd then.....deluded that's why.....when was the last time Alex Ferguson waited nervously for a Liverpool result ?

[Sean Stoney]

I find your comments deplorable. I am a Liverpool fan but my wife and my step son are staunch evertonians.

I can catergorically state that not a single copy of the sun was waved towards me and my family in last seasons derby.

Nor were there any chants or mockery
of the Hillsborough victims. I find it difficult to understand why
you have chosen to publish such untruths (LIES).

What does it achieve?

What do you think the victims families (Hillsborough) think about people like you who create and publish these lies?

Your inciteful fabrications are the type of material that inflame the tension between the two clubs.

People like you should be ashamed of yourselves! have you forgotten how the two clubs were united after Rhys' murder, and how evertonians mourned the Hillsborough victims in the exact same way as us, AS IF THEY WERE THEIR OWN!!!!

Our great club could really do without the likes of you. All you do is cause trouble and tarnish our great reputation.

You are a disgrace to our club and a disgrace to the families of the victims at Hillsborough.

I doubt you will respond to this message because I doubt you even have a consience.

[Paul Malone]

You are trivialising the death of 39 men and children to have a dig at a football team, you should be writing for the Sunday Sport.

[Steve]

39 dead are extras in Everton's tragedy?

Trivialising the loss of these 39 lives in order to denigrate Evertonians and lay the blame for the current derby atmosphere solely on blue shoulders is irresponsible, inflammatory and above all shameful .

It is people like you and peices like this that contribute to the changning derby atmosphere. How you ever came to be deputy editor for a respected newspaper is beyond me.

[Jay Brown]

I am afraid Tony Evans is guilty of lies as big as The Sun spun in 1989.

Everton fans mocking Hillsborough & holding up copies of the lowlife red-top last season ??

Absolutely zero evidence of that Tony I am afraid. Liverpool fans are the bitter ones in our eyes as your fall from grace has soured a lot of reds minds.

Unfortunately given LFC supporters raison d'etre is purely to witness success then being unable to accept falling short is for most of them just too much to take.

Cue Tony's risible comments.

[David Williams]

"The 39 dead? Extras in Everton's "tragedy". It's deluded nonsense"

Read it again Mr. Evans, you wrote it.

How deluded are you that you would trivialise the deaths of 39 people in such a way.

I doubt you would know much about shame if you are capable of such a sickening 'cheap shot'.

You represent the morons Mr. Evans.

I demand you publically apologise for this disgraceful article.

Those who allowed it be published on the TIMES website should also be brought to book.

A very sad, but not surprising rant on behalf of a growing minority who support a club Bill Shankly would not recognise now.

Dw

[peter]

The 39 dead? Extras in Everton's "tragedy".

Have a bit of respect for yourself mate.

[Rob Fox]

Typical arrogant kopite. The behaviour of Evertonians you describe is, of course a very small minority, but why let that get in the way of your diatribe. Would it be fair to single out Liverpool fans who threw human excrement at Man. Utd fans, stole tickets from fellow supporters in Athens or those who attempted to stop the ambulance which took Alan Smith to hospital as representative of all Liverpool fans? Of course not. However, I would certainly take the writer of this 'article' as representative of the majority of Liverpool supporters I know - smug, self satisfied, arrogant and extremely angry about the existence of little old Everton. Why do we get under your skin so much?

As for Heysel, the facts in terms of football speak for themselves, as for the deaths of 39 supporters, I've never met an Evertonian who would consider that as an aside in our 'tragedy' as you put it. Perhaps the Juventus fans who turned their back on Liverpool's publicity seeking attempt to aplogise 20 years late were really aiming it at us Bitter Blues who see their compatriots death as an inconvenience.

As for the Derby being much bigger for us, tell that to Jamie Carragher who celebrated cheating, sorry meant beating, little old Everton like he'd just scored the winner in the Champions League final.

This piece is ironic in so many ways - talk of resentment, bitterness and delusion in such a resentful, bitter deluded piece. Congratulations Tony on living up to the stereotype of the typical Liverpool fan.

[Rob Fox]

Typical arrogant kopite. The behaviour of Evertonians you describe is, of course a very small minority, but why let that get in the way of your diatribe. Would it be fair to single out Liverpool fans who threw human excrement at Man. Utd fans, stole tickets from fellow supporters in Athens or those who attempted to stop the ambulance which took Alan Smith to hospital as representative of all Liverpool fans? Of course not. However, I would certainly take the writer of this 'article' as representative of the majority of Liverpool supporters I know - smug, self satisfied, arrogant and extremely angry about the existence of little old Everton. Why do we get under your skin so much?

As for Heysel, the facts in terms of football speak for themselves, as for the deaths of 39 supporters, I've never met an Evertonian who would consider that as an aside in our 'tragedy' as you put it. Perhaps the Juventus fans who turned their back on Liverpool's publicity seeking attempt to aplogise 20 years late were really aiming it at us Bitter Blues who see their compatriots death as an inconvenience.

As for the Derby being much bigger for us, tell that to Jamie Carragher who celebrated cheating, sorry meant beating, little old Everton like he'd just scored the winner in the Champions League final.

This piece is ironic in so many ways - talk of resentment, bitterness and delusion in such a resentful, bitter deluded piece. Congratulations Tony on living up to the stereotype of the typical Liverpool fan.

[Peter Barnes]

What a ludicrous, disgraceful rant.

He's right in a sense. The derby isn't the biggest game of the season... for Everton. Our semi-final against Chelsea was. When's Liverpool semi-final this season?

As for the worsening relations between fans, and putting all the blame for that at Everton fans' door..... may I suggest blogs like this perpetuate the problem? The derby at Anfield last season was poisonous, with Liverpool fans holding up a banner that stretched the full length of the Kop, bearing the message 'One City One Club'. It was Liverpool fans pathetically waving Tesco bags in the air at last season's Anfield derby and this season's Goodison derby.

No doubt Tony will moan when he sees the American flags in the Anfield Road end on Sunday, in a playful jibe at the Hicks-Gillett-DIC soap opera. In years gone by, people would have laughed at such things.

It would appear to be Liverpool fans' new wont to dismiss the derby as 'not meaning as much to them' as it does to Everton fans. I think this makes them feel superior if they continue this delusion. You would think their placing in the league, coupled with their thrashing at Utd last week would make them see their place in the real scheme of things. In my experience, it's the out-of-town reds that don't understand the significance of the fixture in local circles.

As for Heysel, it's a tired subject that the vast majority of Evertonians don't care about anymore. Our progress in recent years, finishing above Liverpool in the league, progress in Europe this season, etc.... has put paid to all of that. That said, nothing annoys Everton fans more than Liverpool fans ignorance of the subject. It happened, deal with it.

[Paul Malcolm]

This article is an absolute disgrace. Being in the Everton end at the match at Anfield last season, I saw no brandishing of the sun newspaper and there was certinly NO hillsborough comments or songs made or chanted. The city has always been united over the Hillsborough tragedy. This gutter journalism shocks me and so called journalists should not be allowed to write such trash and add fuel to an intensely growing rivalry. I am suprised The Times has published this tripe. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

[Rob Unsworth]

Nobody was holding up copies of the Sun last season. Provide a source for that bit of information or please retract it.

The comment on the 39 dead was disgusting. Please show some class.

[Robert Balmain]

Let's nail this lie now. I was in the Anflield Road section last year and did not witness any mocking of the 96 Hillsborough victims. I did witness the excement and urine being hurled by our lovely scally LFC 'friends' at EFC fans. It would be nice if one day, hopefully soon, a LFC fan could mention Everton without using the word bitter. Wherever I've been in the world I've had to defend my city becasue of the contemptible behaviour of LFC fans (never Everton). For instance, Athens last year. Don't you remember the events that led to the dead at Hillsborough? You all really need to take a long, long look at yourselfs. But, then LFC fans are never, ever to blame - even Heysel was everybody elses fault.

[Louis]

What a load of nonsensical vitriolic bile.

[Mark]

Scandalous revisionist crap.

I no longer go to the Anfield Derby because I'm sick of being spat at by "The worlds greatest fans". Ask yourself why it's always Liverpool games were trouble occurs. It's never Liverpool of course is it?

Does the author remember the joint open top bus tour in 1986? I wonder what the reaction would've been if Everton had won the double that year.

It was only the friendly derby as long as they were winning everything in sight, the moment Man. Utd became good, our derby became bitter.

I suppose you won't print this will you? You never print anything critical of blogs.

[Ste Daley]

Maybe the derby game does mean more to Evertonians than it does to Liverpool fans, but ask yourself why?

Maybe its because Liverpool are so obsessed with Manchester United. Maybe its because they tremble in fear of the day when their prescious "we've won 18 titles" arguement is overshadowed by the 19, 20, 21 league titles that will be on display in the Old Trafford trophy room all of which will arrive before Liverpool even get close to winning the Premier League for the first time.

Many Evertonians are bitter and many do use Heysel as an excuse/reason etc but its interesting that you mention Everton fans behaviour at Anfield and yet in true short-sightedness of a typical Liverpool fan you fail to mention the Liverpool fans that shower down spittle, coins, hot tea and coffee onto the travelling fans below, whether its Everton or Man United fans it happens every year - just ask Alan Smith and his paramedic friends.

Liverpool remain a big team for many reasons, your worldwide support, the size of your new American owned debts but not for footballing reasons.

No league title for almost 20 years and bar two penalty shoot-outs there would have been no trophies during Rafa's £300m player (of average quality) shopping spree. In a world where finishing 4th is treated as a success your well up there with the world's finest - just thank your lucky stars the Champions League is no longer for just champions or you'd just be a small club like us!

[Larry L Street]

Considering it's not a big game for you and yours it's quite ironic to see your celebrations when you win.

And i think you'll find that most Evertonians link the demise of the "friendly" derby to the demise of your club and the fact that you're nearer to our level than the top teams.

[J O'Neill]

"you're just a bitter blue" - the reds argument for everything.

true, the merseyside derby isn't as important due to evertons lack of success over the years - liverpools bitter jealousy of any team that can actually win the league transcends traditional local rivalry these days.

[Davo]

I'd suggest the liverpool fans & clubs complete denial of the events in Heysel is the real shame. Booing the memorial in 86 and blaming it on chelsea etc.

[dave hart]

It has spawned a new ugliness in the city on derby day. Last year, there were Evertonians in the Anfield Road end making gestures mocking the Hillsborough dead and and holding up copies of The Sun to antagoinse the home fans.

youre a liar Tony-more Kopite revisionism?

[Hercules]

So Everton are the bitter ones eh Tony ?

Forgot about your then Chairman blaming Chelsea fans for the events of Heysel.

[Greg Murphy]

Misinformed. Badly skewed. And typically myopic. Always regarded you as knowing the score, Tony. Sadly mistaken. Here's what happened AFTER Heysel. Facts.

http://tiny.cc/PostHeysel

[Paul Gladwell]

No mention on the bitter reds hurling paper cups full of excrement onto the everton fans below in the Anfield road on the other season

[paddy o'narky]

good of you to take time and column inches to discuss a "nothing" fixture.
not the first article that has come out before the derby desperate to stir up some sort of faux hatred between the two sets of fans.

[Colm Kavanagh]

Dear Sir,

As an Evertonian, I find it most distasteful and certainly disrespectul that you choose to "use" the deaths of 39 Italian football fans who died as a result of attending a football game involving your club. For shame.

It remains an easy convenience for Reds like yourself to apply the moral high ground and reach a verdict that the deterioration in relations on Merseyside when the two sides clash is a result of our own perceived (blue) bitterness, emanating directly from the Heysel disaster. So so wrong.

I would place many years of mismanagement within the hierarchy at Goodison well above the terrible tragedy which occured in Belgium back in 1985. Since the advent of Sky inventing football, Alan Sugar flogging satellite dishes and TV eating itself to get a finger or three of the pie, Everton have gradually fallen away from being a top club. However, despite our own failings over the past twenty years, with little to shout about until recently (thank you Davey Moyes), perhaps the author should look closer to home and ask questions of the likes of David Moores, who in earning personal riches many of us will never see, pimped your club to the highest foreign bidder (reap what you sow).

I appreciate it is derby weekend and the purpose of your article was to irk a few Evertonians into response. Congratulations on your achievement, it worked. However, win lose or draw at Anfield tomorrow - it's only another game in Everton's growing renaissance under a very fine manager - a manager who has all the grace so evidently lacking across the park, a man who rightly mirrors the modern day Red and their unhealthy level of delusion.

I ask myself, what would Shanks have said...

Yours in football,
Colm Kavanagh

[Singing the blues]

So the cups of urine pored over us, the coins thrown at women and children, the rain of spit that has deluged us over the last 7-8 seasons along with the utter bile spouted by the reds during their fall from grace has in no way has in no way turned the Anfield derby into the unpleasent experience that it is today.

Yet another typical "it wasn't us it was Chelsea" attempt by a Kopite to place the blame elsewhere.

[Ian Maher]

The irony is that with each passing day the bitterness of being a Red shines more brightly.

We even have the joy of "Reclaim The Kop"..the every day life of 'real' reds annoiting their position as superiors over the rank and file..it's George Orwell part two.

Nope - never any booing at Tin Mine, just the occasional Spanker.

Ian

What a load of tosh everything that came out of this guy's mouth. He is the reason why there is anomosity between both sets of fans. People like him make me sick stirring up hatred by printing false stories. Just for the record i hope the Blues win on Sunday and this guy eats his words. I have never heard so much rubbish in all my life come on you Blues.

This "article" is typical of the sheer ignorance and condescending arrogance shown by reds fans on a regular basis.

Of course, that plays no part in the ill feeling around the Merseyside derby these days.

It's just little old Everton's fault. Or is it big, bad Everton? Make up your mind please.