Merseyside derby means more to Everton, but a good spanking wouldn't go amiss

The big clash at Anfield has everyone talking. It's a big matchup of rivals who were once part of the same team but are now increasing bitter antagonists. Yes, Hicks v Gillett is turning out to be a stormer.

Everton? That's just a bit of local difficulty.

Of course, beating Everton will be a nice way of erasing the memories of last week and the events at Old Trafford. And it'll serve as a nice warm-up for a big Champions League clash with Arsenal.

But biggest game of the season? Only in the crazy world of the Bitter Blue.

Relations between the two sets of fans have deteriorated in recent years. It's increasingly hard to have a rational conversation with an Evertonian.  The phrase, "If it wasn't for Heysel" has become a destructive mantra that has changed the nature of the relationship between the two sets of fans. For some, the shame of Brussels was that it stopped the 'People's Club' from claiming their rightful place as the best team in Europe. The 39 dead? Extras in Everton's "tragedy". It's deluded nonsense on so many levels but, for too many, it has come to be seen as the moment when Everton's destiny changed, when they were robbed of their chance to be a big club.

It has spawned a new ugliness in the city on derby day. Last year, there were Evertonians in the Anfield Road end making gestures mocking the Hillsborough dead and and holding up copies of The Sun to antagoinse the home fans. This was never quite "the friendly derby" of popular fiction but the younger elements on each side can't even remember a time when it felt cordial.

Which is a shame. Especially for those who remember the mid-80s. Then, for the FA Cup Final and Charity Shield games, thousands of Scousers arrived on the same trains at Euston, red and blue ski hats mixed up as we stated our collective identity with chants of "Merseyside".

The derby has become a much bigger game for Everton than us. And that galls them more than anything. Recalling the old days, I wish they weren't so resentful.

Looking forward, a good spanking at Anfield would put Everton in their place and make them even more bitter. I could live with that. All in the spirit of comradeship, of course...

TONY EVANS

Comments

[Elaine]

Every club including Liverpool has their share of idiots. There isn't one club in the country that can take the moral highground. I found Tony's piece to be inflammatory written as it was on the eve of a derby game, but also largely accurate. With the exception of the Sun waving incidents (I've never witnessed such a thing personally)it does strike a chord with a lot of 'Reds'. In many respects Everton's identity is largely shaped by it's relationship with Liverpool FC. Central to that relationship in recent years has been the whole issue of Heysel. Hence,whenever Everton play away in Europe there usually follows a whole host of banners refering to the tradgedy in some way. '39 Italians can't be wrong' or 'Sorry we're late - trouble with the neighbours' 'Others did the crime, we did the time' and so on. Don't think so? Just google them, they're out there. Unfortunately derby days have become less friendly in recent years which is a shame considering the magnificent way in which Everton fans responded to and helped Liverpool fans in the immediate aftermath of Hillsborough. Thankfully there are still plenty of old school reds and blues around who deplore the actions of a growing minority on both sides who think it right to sing about Lescott, Gerrard's kid, Heysel, Hillsborough and so on. However, unless more is done to address the mindlessness and it's underlying causes, 'the old school' might well find itself in the minority in years to come.

[Greg]

Excellent piece Tony. Shame the Echo have conveniently remained silent over the years regarding the Hillsborough, Heysel and Michael Shields insults by fans of the small peoples club. Have fun in Kirkby lads....

[Norwegian Wood]

The article is totally spot on. The small club from Kirkby have massively sunken since the days when we had a healthy rivalry in the 1980's. Now bitterness is the dish served every other week at the Pit. I guess us Reds should feel sorry for you, what with it being 13 years since you last won something.

[Rob]

Strikes me as a typical Liverpool fan. Triumphalist, with nothing to be triumphant about.

Still, you enjoy that CL qualifying tie against Dynamo Nobody, won't you?

[Rory]

Last season a man, probably in his thirties - certainly old enough to know better - stood at the front of the Anfield Road away section mimicking getting crushed, and mimicking 'pushing a wall'.

This was well noted at the time by people in both the home and away section. The person was (and I'm sorry to stereotype against my own) was wearing a rather loud sky blue tracksuit. He hardly blended in.

After the match I remember an Evertonian coming into a Liverpool pub apoligising for him and berating his fellow fans. He told a story of having to have a stern word with two young lads by him in the away end about mocking Hillsborough. The two lads never came back to their seat after half time. He was aghast at the fact no-one around him seemed bothered enough to speak out.

It was also noted that before the game a gang of young Everton lads were escorted by the police (friendly derby eh) through Stanley Park. Some waving copies of The Sun.

Maybe it's such a small minority that it's worth keep 'in-house'. But when so few on the inside seem reluctant to admit it's happening (some of the comments on here are almost bordering the realms of delusion, particularly regarding Heysel; the songs, the flags, the phoney memorials - think on eh), then maybe it does need the likes of this piece to rock the boat.

Yours,

A ticket snatching Norwegian

[EJ Ruane]

Some Evertonians seem shocked and/or suprised by this piece.

Why?

It does not surprise me when the sun rises in the morning because...that's what it does.

It does not surprise me when the Bee heads towards the flower because...that's what they do.

And when Liverpool supporters point the finger at others, while denying all responsibility for their own disgusting actions over the years, it's no surprise because...

[Paul]

Well done Tony for a great and accurate article. Seems to have hit a nerve!

[Adam Knight]

As a Liverpool fan I find myself agreeing with the Evertonians posting here. A ridiculous piece and a blatant wind up. Glad we won but only because we got ourselves a bit of daylight there, This Tony fella does need a reality check.

[yelohomer]

I can't ever remember Liverpool bringing out a dvd after winning the second game of the season. Like Everton did last year.Evertonians seem to forget their disgaceful behaviour at the 2001 Goodison derby for the minutes silence.

[meredithmathieson]

No, of course the Blues aren't bitter: I must have misheard the songs TODAY about Michael Shields, Steven Gerrards baby and ,of course, that perennial favourite 'murderers'.
Don't mind the 'Everton fans welcome Liverpool fans to Merseyside' banner - that's proper banter - but far too many Blues are bitter. End of.

[stephen whelan]

Shocking article, but not surprising. Liverpool fans are nothing but predictable. Whenever backed into a corner they always pass blame. It wasnt us it was them. Same as this article to suggest that Everton fans are the reason why the derby is full of hatred is laughable. First of all the derby has never been friendly. The freindly tag only came about from press pr after Everton supported Liverpool after hillsborough. A fact that seems forgotten in this article. Evertonians lost friends and family also in 1989 but this is forgotten.

Heysel is a sore point with not only Everton fans but many others effected by the ban that had nothing to do with us. Why should we suffer for someone elses wrong doings. The fact it took liverpool 21 years to say sorry to Juventus doesn't hold much hope for an apologize to all the other English teams effected.

Liverpool are a dying club who's spark is dimmer then ever as always when under pressure try to blame others in this case Everton. Its Evertons fault, , it wasn't us it was the Greek police was shouted the other year when Liverpool fans stormed the turnstiles at the Champions league final and got the tag worst fans in Europe. Lightning very rarely strikes twice never mind three times. So before pointing the finger at Everton take a cold hard look at yourself and issue an apologies to all Evertonians you idiot

[JOHNk]

How do you sleep at night? You should be ashamed of yourself.
You ARE the problem of hostile Derbys. 45,000 go each year, most share cars and a pint there and back , but you are not a real Merseysider, you are evil.

[Roy]

What a belter you are its just as big a game for liverpool as it is for everton, we can qualify for the uefa cup ane weve had a really good season if u dont finish fourth and qualify for the champions league then it would be a disaster, as for us blues being bitter every kopite i speak too these days are getting more and more bitter as the seasons go on.

[stagros]

deluded pratt

you'll get over it one day maybe

[Tony Connor]

Tony, I think your rather jaundiced comments could easily apply to Manchester United fans' opinion of your good Nordic selves.

It's somewhat ironic that you choose the Murdoch owned Times website to vilify a tiny minority Everton fans for tasteless references to Hillsborough.

Munich songs v Man U, bags of urine thrown at kids...death threats... how very retro.

Your expensively assembled team of superstars are a whopping TWO (count 'em) points ahead of Everton going in to the derby. If I may paraphrase The Stone Roses..wasn't this the year that was going to be THE ONE..ahem..just like the previous 18?

And Finally Esther..
"..and there is, at times, so much the feel of the last days of the Roman Empire at Anfield these days that it would be no surprise if Caligula took over the club and appointed Red Rum as his director of football."
Source: Today's Telegraph

All together now.."When you walk.....

[Tony Connor]

Tony, I think your rather jaundiced comments could easily apply to Manchester United fans' opinion of your good Nordic selves.

It's somewhat ironic that you choose the Murdoch owned Times website to vilify a tiny minority Everton fans for tasteless references to Hillsborough.

Munich songs v Man U, bags of urine thrown at kids...death threats... how very retro.

Your expensively assembled team of superstars are a whopping TWO (count 'em) points ahead of Everton going in to the derby. If I may paraphrase The Stone Roses..wasn't this the year that was going to be THE ONE..ahem..just like the previous 18?

And Finally Esther..
"..and there is, at times, so much the feel of the last days of the Roman Empire at Anfield these days that it would be no surprise if Caligula took over the club and appointed Red Rum as his director of football."
Source: Today's Telegraph

All together now.."When you walk.....

[Tony, Liverpool]

Better than ever in LFC's 'it's not our fault' stakes.

So Everton fans proudly take their place on the (crowded) podium next to Chelsea, the Belgian authorities, The Sun, West Yorkshire Police, the Bulgarian authorities, UEFA's ticketing organisers, Athens police, out-of-towners, the Americans, Steve Bennett, Pat Partridge, Millwall, bent European referees, Tony 'H' Wilson and no doubt the slow ambulance driver taking Alan Smith to hospital with a broken leg.

Yes, we have more than our share of dk-heads that follow us but this constant lfc victim complex is laughable.

[fairfella]

4 points adrift by next weekend, who'll be bitter then...

[dave]

haha. Brilliant. That's a great impression of someone who doesn't care about everton, and has no time for them! It would be interesting to see how much time you dedicate to things you actually care about. Let's face it, the red lot are going on the offensive, i see it as nerves, why? Because liverpool are no closer to winning the league than they were 10 years ago, despite spending money hand over fist. Forget about everton and carry on worrying about how to become man utd, it's obviously what all liverpool fans long for. As for everton, a side that is minding it's own business, concentrating on improving season on season, setting realistic goals. But i suppose you wouldn't understand that. Good luck for your title challenge next year, or was that last year? Or this year? Sorry i can't keep up.

[David James]

Uneducated rubbish from a red who probably perpetuates the myth of the 'sky four' only to fear losing being part of (if only a minor bit-part - scene over by the end of September) that 'illustrious' club. The bitterness comes from Liverpool supporters who become more and more frustrated as they drift into the'oblivion' that is ordinary premiership life (i.e. distinctly avearge) despite the vast amounts spent on poor french/spanish imports. Liverpool are as likely to win the premiership as Everton, Villa and City are...infact as likely as Newcastle! And that buddy is what galls them more than anything.

[Mike Turner]

Those very few fans who do that should be ashamed of themselves. You, however, make an assertion that it represents the true Evertonian. That makes you a shameful idiot!

[Jay]

Ironic really. You could rewind 7 days and substitute Liverpool for Man Utd, replace Everton with Liverpool and Heysel for Munich.
Not so clever now, eh Doug?

[Dave Dix]

The worst thing about this piece is the FABRICATION insinuating Everton fans were holding up copies of The Sun and mocking the Hillsborough victims.

Not only is it totally inaccurate and slanderous towards Everton, You are using a fabricated scenario using the victims of Hillsborough in a poor attempt to have a dig at us.

If I was one of the victims families I would be absolutely livid at such an article.

[Dave Furness]

Mr Evans,

If you are employed by The Times in any position other than Chief Fantasist - then the newspaper's HR department need to have a long hard look at themselves.

I could catalogue Liverpool supporters many indescretions but I think UEFA best summed up your following as 'The Worst Behaved Supporters In Europe.' That is a substantiated claim - something that you are unable to do with any of your claims regarding Everton supporters. As a side note Toe (can I call you Toe?) isn't that the point of good journalism; to offer insight and comment backed up by evidence and facts? Think about it. The good natured Cup finals you mention all took place after Heysel, didn't they? There's that problematic issue of evidence again. It's a pain isn't it?

If you claim that Everton fans used Hillsborough/Heysel and the Sun to antagonise Liverpool's support why was this not reported anywhere at all?

As for this being Everton's 'most important game of the season' - are you trying to claim that LFC are in a position to be challenging Man United, Arsenal and Chelsea for the league? (Tip: have a look at the league table -pesky facts again, I know!)Isn't the financial structure of LFC geared around qualifying for the Champions league? That would make this game more important for you than it would do for Everton I would imagine. If Everton do lose on Sunday it will be disappointing but we won't be facing dire financial consequences if we do.

Finally, I invented the banana. Any chance I could have the number for your HR department? It's is for a job I'm thinking of applying for. Ta.

[tony]

and no one ever sang the munich song at righteous anfield?

you are a pathetic rabble rouser.
to me and most evertonians the european cup was irrelevant in
the wake of heysel.

the first time i ever heard it mentioned in a big way was by a west ham fan - martin samuel.