The summer of our discontent

It has certainly been a strange summer for Manchester United. On the back of watching my team lift the league at Wigan and the European Cup (I refuse to give it any other name) in Moscow a summer of bliss should have followed. Winding up scousers, basking in City's ridiculous dismissal of Sven and enjoying the footage of Kenyon being booed as he led 'his' team to their losers medal could all have been a priority. However, Evra's Stamford Bridge scuffle, Spurs' claims against us regarding Berbatov and of course the Ronaldo saga have all got in the way.

As far as I am concerned, Ronaldo should pack his bags and be shipped off. Yes, he is a great player and probably one of the best I have seen. But no player is bigger than United and the quicker he realises that the better. We rebuilt a team without Duncan Edwards, won the European Cup with Law injured, picked up the treble after Cantona had gone and even won the league the season after Roy Keane left. No one is irreplaceable. I'd like to see United cash in on, buy a goalscorer who could compensate for losing all the goals Ronaldo would get us, but then refuse to let him go to Madrid on pure principle. I'd thank him for all the wonderful moments, wish him well in his future career, applaud him if he ever came back to Old Trafford and get on with supporting my club. Sure, part of me would be worried about how well the team would do without him, but I'd be willing to take that risk. Should he stay it will only be for one season anyway and how much will his heart really be in it? Will the dressing room harmony be the same?

Aside from the Ronaldo saga, United fans remain seriously unhappy with the Glazers. Ticket prices flew up again this summer, the debt repayments swallowed up all our profits, and the four big name players we purchased last year are not yet paid for. Success on the pitch means the debt can be ignored for another six months or so, but one season without some big trophies and the money men will be starting to sweat. Many will wonder what the problem is - after all, United are flourishing on the pitch under the new owners - but club insiders and those in the know are fully aware this is despite them not because of them. A club with no debt is now in heavy debt, profits are swallowed by huge debt repayments even more worrying in light of the credit crunch, and supporters are being fleeced by mad ticket prices and policies such as the Automatic Cup Scheme that forces all season ticket holders to purchase home cup games on direct debit whether they want to or not.

Despite all this, the new season promises to be exciting. A young team with great team spirit are on top of the world and full of confidence. Scolari will be an interesting character and will surely be involved in a title race, and there will be some great new away games at Stoke and Hull to go to. The scousers will no doubt be getting giddy again as they always do at this time of year and if City are in the top 6 by October no doubt the council will organise a bus parade for them even if the Red half of the city is never allowed one. I have missed going on the South Africa tour as I have taken far too much time off work for United already this year doing all the European aways, but it is still only a couple of weeks until my first game of the season - Ole Solskjaer's testimonial on August 2nd. That will be followed by the Community Shield a week later and after that the real fun begins all over again. I can't wait.

Oli Winton

Comments

[Andy J]

Richard Bruce - I believe Roman Abramovich has officially lent the money to Chelsea and it's listed as a debt in the company accounts to be repaid.

[Richard Bruce]

I get why some folks think the Glazers have not done anything to harm United, we are still successful on the pitch and still able to buy good players BUT as others have said, none of this is being paid for out of the owners own pockets like Abramovich. It is all coming from borrowed money which has to be paid back. As others have said, if you look at the accounts, it is plain as day that United are just about meeting the interest payments on the financing that was taken out to purchase the club, at some point that will not be enough and the actual DEBT has to start and be repaid and given the recent financial climate, refinancing isn't going to be easy.

Lets look to the future a bit, Fergie will retire some of his most loyal players (Giggs, Scholes, Neville) will be gone too and although we curretnly have a squad young enough to keep going, what happens if the next manager doesn't ge the same results? Trophies start to dry up, less cash in the kitty and interest payments that still have to be met...who is going to bear the brunt of that? The current owners? Don't bet on it. Ticket prices will continue to go up so long as they can sell out the ground but all that does is price out the people who love United the most. At some point it will become too expensive for the most loyal and then even the daytrippers will not be able to afford to make an annual trip half way round the globe to see United. Should the team start to slide then you can also expect the higher end of the market (the Corporates) decide they want to take their clients to where-ever the succesful team is (after all, don't they want to be associated with being with "the best", all about image!!)

Don't kid yourself that it couldn't happen, it could and very very easily and here is the big question...what would you do to save your club? Would you as a loyal fan not want to be a part of owning your club (and don't think it isn't possible, it only isn't possible if you sit on your backside and let things happen around you). Just think what could be done with the money that is currently being siphoned off the club to pay debt...that's MORE money for players, MORE money to reduce ticket prices.

Should United be used as a plaything and money-maker, or would it better serve football by being a "not-for-profit" organisation, where any money made is used to enhance United, ploughed back in the club, into players and into REWARDING the fans, not fleecing them. I know what I'd rather see.

[Pancho]

There are some great points on this forum but anyone who states that the Glazers have been great and they have increased the clubs financial status are frankly talking rubbish. They have contributed absolutely nothing! Despite the huge increase in TV money, transfer spend is no more than its ever been, in fact its probably less. The only thing we can thank them for is a 50% increase in ticket prices and an uncertain future. Fan ownership is the ideal but unless a lot more supporters see thro the newspaper spin and the clubs marketing twaddle I can not see it ever happening at United.

[Char O Keeffe]

Michael...it's obvious from your points that you don't have any grasp on reality. If you're going to try and correct the author of the piece then I suggest you get your facts straight and not spout nonsense. The Glazer's have given us millions of pounds have they? hahaha! Any money United have spent on players has not come from the Glazers mate. It's more borrowed money. They are constantly trying to refinance the debt so that they can take whatever they can out of the club- saddling the club with even more debt. Still and all they are struggling to make the interest repayments so this snowball effect is going to hit eventually. You are the typical blinkered United supporter who cannot see the wood for the trees and you couldn't give a rattling damn about your fellow supporters. Another example of your ignorance is your comment about United ticket prices versus Arsenal/Chelsea. You realise that those living in London earn considerably more than those of us up here right? Or are you swallowing whatever Gill and co tell you to? Have you heard of the ACS by the way? Have you read the Red Football accounts that tell you the current financial situation? Or do you prefer to read the MUTV synopsis authorised by the spin doctors within Old Trafford. Open your eyes.

But the real issue here is not so much the debt as it is who should own the club because as of now the current owners put no money in but take plenty out- and yes that's true, I've seen the figures- whereas if United supporters got up off their behinds and did something constructive like join MUST/IMUSA etc so that we have big numbers together- we could one day secure a meanginful stake in the club-perhaps owning it outright eventually ala Barca which would see profits plowed back into the club to reduce ticket prices and for players as opposed to lining their own pockets and sinking the club further into debt. Don't tell me that United couldn't go bankrupt Gazzer- just look at Leeds. The Glazer's got rich alright but are you aware of the asset stripping they've engaged in with other ventures. So what's to stop them here?

Some of you really need to understand what it is you're trying to argue about because it's not making the slightest bit of sense. You ASSUME they know what they are doing. You ASSUME that this does not involve stripping United of it's assets when push comes to shove such as selling off Old Trafford. You ASSUME they put money into the club. You ASSUME ticket prices are fair. But you've not given me one decent reason to put faith in such assumptions. Yes we won the double last year with debt but did we not win the treble in 9 without a single pound owing? Stop looking short term. It's the future that matters.

[Oli Winton]

Thanks Michael. But to be honest, you are fairly wrong on some of that.

1) We made £3m profit last year. Without the 2007 league title it would have been a loss. The debts are paid out of a company called Red Football Limited and so do nto show in United's accounts. That was a £3m profit in a financial year where we made a profit in the transfer market (Carrick more than paid for by Keane/ Ruud of the wage bill and selling Ruud/ Obi Mikel etc) and won the league. You can see how in future years we will be making a loss if we buy players/ don't win trophies/ continue to rely on sponmsors who have huge economic problems of their own.

2)The Glazers have not given MUFC one penny. Please don't think THEY buy players like Abramovich does at Chelsea. United buy players with their own money/ their own borrowed debt rather then the owners putting their hands in their pockets. Ultimately it is the fans who pay that, whether it be through raised ticket prices or Sky subscriptions. No need to thank them for that.

3) You say our prices are nothing on Chelsea and Arsenal's but that is now totally incorrect. The fact that our club forces all ST holders to purchase all home cup game tickets ensures the cost to a United season ticket holder is now higher in most cases. South/ North stand tickets are now £44 a game (compared to Chelsea's £45) but our fans have to stump up for all the cup games too on top of that - I think 8 extra games last season for example that Chelsea fans can miss if they want.

Please have a look at joinmust.org and read up on the real facts re the debt etc and the actual issues the club faces, as admitted by David Gill himself when he called the debt 'aggressive, potentially damaging and unworkable' shortly before being asked to find a way to pay it off himself, and before the credit crunch even kicked in.

[gazzer]

Why all this harping on about debt that must be repaid? All big successful businesses take on debt simply because it is a cheap form of financing, nothing more than that. It does not mean that they are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. It does not mean that it has to be paid off - it can continue forever so long as the business continues to be profitable.

Perhaps the Glazers got rich by knowing a little more about business and finance than the rest of us?

[Michael]

Hey Oli, well written, I liked it. Although I read Jason's comment and your reply and feel compelled to tell that you have no idea what you're talking about. Granted, we are now in awful debt and granted prices have been going up, but from a financial point of view we're hardly in a bad situation. We make consistently large profits, even in periods with little success, and the debt repayments, while large, are hardly crippling.

What I get sick off is hearing people spouting off about how they are a "real fan" and how anyone who's in favour of the Glazers must not be. Whether you want to admit it or not, that family gave us millions to spend, and it's no coincidence that those spending sprees lead to us catching up with Chelsea again. Anyone who says we would have won the tiltle in 07 without Carrick is a fool, and if you think 08 could have been done without Tevez, Hargreaves, Nani and Anderson you are kidding yourself. Granted that Tevez isn't paid for but the rest are, just often the deals are made so payments are staggered: while we haven't paid yet, the money is written off and saved.

The Glazers may have been bad for ticket prices, but the fact that we still sell out shows that those are prices people are willing to pay, and they're still nothing next to Arsenal's or Chelsea's. I get where you're coming from but the Glazer's all-business style has been great for our club and the unprecedented global expansion that is happening under them will reap dividends for years to come.

What we really need to be afraid of is Fergie's retirement, not a bunch of American business who are all too willing to give our club millions of pounds.

[Bob Greenaway]

If the Glazers are really serious about keeping the fans onside,why not sell whingeing Ronaldo & replace him from within,do they still have a Youth team? Of course it sounds simplistic & sifting & bringing along youngsters will take time.The fee,let alone wages saved would enable every seat at every Premier game to be reduced by a staggering £40!
Puts it in context really

[robert walton]

Oli's article is bang on the money (pardon the pun) regarding the whole debt scenario - it sickens me when i hear idiotic pundits stating that the Glazers must be good just because we've won the league and european cup. They are a cancer on the club however the reality is that this course was all set on it's way when Martin Edwards floated us on the stock market... any red who doesn't see the impact of what the Glazers have done is blind. They are merely building the value of the club and then they will sell it off at a profit, this became a risk free investment to them (that the fans are paying for) once they off loaded ALL debts in to the clubs name.

thanks,
Rob

[Oli]

Hi Jason, I wrote the article so I'd like to reply to your point.

How has £650m debt helped the club? How have season ticket price increases of upto £500 in some cases helped the team when that money has not been re-invested in the club? How has making club staff pay for tickets for the first time helped the team? Don't kid yourself that THEY have spent money- we more than paid for Carrick with Obi Mikel, Rossi, Smith, Keane and Ruud leaving and the four big signings last summer are not yet paid for. It is not the Glazer's money anyway-it is a mix of cash the fans are being forced to stump up, and proceeds the club made from being fantastic on the field. You'd think with an unexpected £30m from winning the European Cup ticket prices may stay the same- but of course not.

The Glazers have done well to acknowledge that they do not understand football and unlike other owners- note Chelsea and Liverpool- have stayed well away from interfering. However, they do and will interfere when those debts need to be paid off and that is when things will really come to a head. They cannot ignore £650m debt forever and it certainly won't look after itself in the face of the credit crunch and AIG about to go bankrupt.

I went to nearly every game in all competitions last season from Lyon to Portsmouth to Moscow to Wigan to Anfield and to Rome. On my travels around the UK and Europe I was surrounded my people who have been gradually priced out, many who did not renew season tickets last or this summer, and who watched AIG take 1/3 of our allocation at Wigan away when others who had been to every game all season were left ticketless. The owners have never spoken to the fans, never spoken about the debt and it wreaks of shear arrogance and resentment that there is no open-ness and transparency. The two largest supporter organisations in the country- MUST and IMUSA- have been frozen out and that leaves approx 50,000 of United's longest standing and most vociferous fans completely detached from a club they helped build. The club will still take their money of course, unless you wear an anti-Glazer tshirt that is, as now you get ejected from the ground by the new breed of stewards.

So please don't come on here defending the Glazers when most probably you support the club from your armchair totally detached from the reality match going Reds face under the new regime. I applaud Fergie and the lads for some of the happiest memories of life last season, and my night in Moscow was the highlight of my life, but that is not to say that our club is not owned by a nasty bunch and the quicker they are forced out the better. So sign up to the United Supporter's Trust and get yourself clued up asap.

Thanks and enjoy the new season,
Oli

[Jason]

"but club insiders and those in the know are fully aware this is despite them not because of them"

It always amazes me when I hear this statement. It was heard with Sven also..that if they won it would be dispite him and not because of him...I support the club I want to state...but if things go wrong you guys are quick to blame the owners but if they go right you dont give any credit...you cant have it both ways....then again in the myopic world of football fans you can

[Muzi,Dlamini]

Sir may u pls let Ronaldo go to the school of old crocks where they can only win the domestic league because their league is a mediocre and its a two team league where they can not spot talent but only aready made material.

[Derek]

With the apparent 67.5 Million, it is enough to buy Berbatov (close to 30 million) + David Bentley (I think 17 or 18 million?), with another 20 million remaining. I am not saying that you can replace a player like Ronaldo with players that add up to his salary, but these players will do just as good as Ronaldo because they will be fully committed to helping Man United succeed.

[bez]

As a Magpie, Fergie is a smart cookie. The only person Man Utd never 'really' replaced was Keane as that is such a rare breed. The next Ronaldo like Beckham, Van Nistelroy, Cole, Cantona, Hughes, Yorke, Robson,will be in the pipeline...somewhere. Any chance of sharing???

[Char O Keeffe]

Good points about the debt and the rising ticket prices/ACS. Loyal fans are being left behind by football bosses and treated with contempt if they voice their disapproval. Football clubs should remember that hard economic times are not only coming but are pretty much here already and soon the day trippers won't have a spare £100 to go to Old Trafford and splurge on the latest tat in the Megastore. Now that the local hardcore United support are being pushed out the door, the Glazers could find themselves in a very difficult position very quickly. The sooner the fans get together to put themselves in a position to buy at least a meaningful stake in the club the better, because when it all goes wrong-and it will- someone will be needed to pick up the pieces and to ensure it doesn't happen again.

[Bryan Price]

I agree, if any player dosen't want to play for United then goodbye and goodluck. I would love it if after he moved to Real we would face them in the champion's league final and the game would come down to penalty kicks and Ronaldo would miss again and we would win. The winning goal would be scored by one of the players we bought to replace him.

[Peter Mc]

Within the very near future, the only remarkable thing about this fellow will be his perfectly plucked eyebrows, waxed or tweezers?