FSF: How not to police football fans

Amanda Jacks, FSF portfolio holder for policing and stewarding, tells of the shocking treatment received by a group of Stoke City supporters at the hands of the police.

When the FSF started this blog the intention was to write about issues that effect most supporters: ticket prices, concerns at club management, kick off times and so forth.  We didn't want to be writing every other week about the civil liberties issues many fans are increasingly facing, nor do we want to be seen as being constantly critical of the police.

As mentioned in a previous article, we work closely with the boys in blue at the most senior level and are appreciative of their genuine desire to listen to our concerns. However, after hearing about the experiences of some 80 Stoke supporters at the hands of Greater Manchester Police (GMP) on Saturday we feel their ordeal needs to be brought to a wider audience if only to flag up the power that police have, and just how willing GMP are to use it.

Admittedly, a relatively rare occurrence, but this could happen to you...

We were contacted on Monday by Lyndon Edwards a 38-year-old Stoke fan who'd travelled to their away game against Manchester Utd by mini bus, rather than train, having previously had poor experiences of policing at Piccadilly station.  All of his group were members of the Stoke Away Membership scheme meaning they'd been vetted by the police. They knew of a good pub on the way Old Trafford so decided to have a couple of drinks there before the game.

Lyndon describes the behaviour of his fellow supporters in the pub as exemplary, boring even. Not a song being sung, just a group of ordinary, law abiding supporters wiling away the time before a long awaited kick off.    He wasn't overly surprised or bothered when the police first made their appearance but the mood changed when it became clear that the police were about to put them all back to Stoke on a coach under the powers of Section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006.   

Why? For no other reason than they were a large (if separate) group of predominantly male football supporters.  Such was the attitude of the police that his female friend was distraught, so upset that Lyndon asked to see a senior officer to see if he could negotiate her leaving the pub rather than being forced on the coach. Eventually an inspector came to speak to Lyndon, showed no sympathy, he advised that the girl "should know better than to mix with Stoke scum." He then refused to give his name and Lyndon was unable take his number as it wasn't displayed on his shoulder. The girl was eventually able to leave but only after an officer from Stoke intervened. 

It is to the great credit of the Stoke supporters that they did not react to this provocation, although even when a couple of fans did try to make the police see reason they were threatened with arrest for public order offences. Processing this many supporters takes time meaning that those who were escorted onto the coach first sat there for nearly two hours, requests to leave the coach to use toilet facilities were met with scorn, fans were told to get a cup off the driver and use that instead.

Lyndon, who is pursuing his complaint with the IPCC, says: "It was the worst policing I have ever experienced in all my years as a football supporter. I am absolutely incensed at the way my friends and I were treated. Not one of us in our group has ever been in trouble with the police for any type of offence.”

“We were treated like criminals and this issue needs to be as publicised as widely as possible to let all football supporters know about the danger of Section 27.”

The FSF fully support his views and our chair, Malcolm Clarke, has written to the police asking whether or not this was an appropriate use of Section 27, and asking him to clarify how officers are trained to use it. We await his response.

Far too many fans are poorly treated by police, and far too few challenge their actions.  You may read this and think, what’s the problem? You’ve obviously never experienced it yourself then – draconian and arbitrary treatment of football fans is widespread and we’ve got the mailbag to prove it. If anything, we think it’s on the increase too. Don't just expect and accept this treatment otherwise it will get worse. We're always willing to fight your corner for you and would be pleased to help with any legitimate complaints out there. If you’re a Stoke fan who experienced this on Saturday, email FSF chair Malcolm Clarke or click here for further advice.

Finally, I lurk from time to time on police message boards and following the Notting Hill Carnival this year there was a very interesting debate about how policing methods differed dependent on the event being policed. In short several officers felt that a more relaxed approach was taken at the Carnival compared to football, with one officer stating that he felt that due to a football crowd not being a specific ethnic minority group, senior management - and I quote, "have no problem treating them (football fans) like s**t and using aggressive tactics". If this is the case - and we have seen plenty of evidence that substantiates this view - then we need to challenge every incident until we're all treated fairly. We deserve better.

Comments

[Bob Ginger]

@Colin Hendrie

...says...

"...On average there are 1.3 million football fans going to see the game on match days.

There are 141,000 police officers in the country.

That's one police officer for every 10 football fans...."

----------

Indeed. But remember that policing is a 24-hour business.

Remember that people, even police officers, need to sleep, eat, have sick days, days off (which approximate a weekend to those on shifts) and holidays, so those 141,000 coppers are not all available on match days.

A general rule of thumb for any employer wishing to fill a single 24x7x365 position is that you need approximately 5 full-time employees to ensure cover.

So at any give time, eg. 3:00pm on Saturday there are likely 141,000 / 5 = 28,200 coppers available, working out at around 46 fans per copper.

But putting numerical quibbling to one side the Irlam incident was a disgrace and a heinous abuse of powers whatever the number of officers available...

[rosso-white]

Try following Leeds!

12 KO times

All tkt fiascos

Coppers stuck in a time warp?

[rosso-white]

Thats nowt!Try following Leeds,the police are stuck in a time warp they think 3000 away Leeds fans is like being in Afghanisthan ,apart from Cheltenham were treat with contempt every where we go!

[The FSF]

Regarding the question on rights once a Section 27 is issued, it's something we're looking into and have been in conversation with legal professionals about. As soon as we get a clear answer we'll be publicising it via our website.

Many thanks,
The FSF

[Amanda Jacks]

I'm not sure you have any rights if the police decide to disperse you using Section 27. Either leave the area or be arrested!

If you look in the help for fans section on the FSF website (www.fsf.org.uk) you'll fid a fact sheet giving further information about police powers and supporter rights.

[Jonathan M]

Does the FSF have guidelines on how to act should such a thing happen?

Presumably using your phone/camera to film evidence of what it going on and taking note of as many police numbers as possible are good ideas but it would be helpful to know exactly what your rights are in situations like that.

[sven]

this IS going to get worse. This is deliberate do not sign and sue for malicious arrest and false imprisonment. the amount of new law that is supposed to protect us is being used to control us, the government are getting ready for a revvolution.

[John P]

Will, you are falling into the same trap as the Police are falling into. If, as you claim, 200 Stokies were abusing passers by in a city centre pub then I doubt if the great majority of Stoke fans would have any problem if the Police had taken action against them - I know I would hope they got dealt with under the law. Certainly the Football Supporters Federation wouldn't be criticising the police for any action legally taken against them. But these fans at Irlam who had section 27 used against them were not abusing passers by. They had not offended anyone in the pub and, most importantly, the Landlord was happy to continue serving them. If you honestly can't see the difference between the good behaviour of these fans and the bad behavious of fans who (you claim) were abusing passers by then you sould well suited to a senior post with the Greater Manchester Police!

[Stan Frontczak]

These thugs in uniform hide behind most people's ignorance of the law. It is getting to the stage now where football supporters need to have a solicitor on stand by every time they wish to travel to a game. Is it any wonder people are fast losing respect for the law and those who manipulate it for their own thiggish self gratification.

[Amanda Jacks]

Will, singing songs is what football fans do and isn't justification for the treatment those subjected to S27 received.

However, if 200 supporters were threatening passers by and those passers by felt intimidated them of course they could have rung the police for them to deal.

And our house is in order, hence us feeling so strongy about this. The overwhelming majority of match going fans behave, arrest rates are falling year on year and yet supporters are still subjected to heavy handed policing, week in, week out.

Just because there are still a handful of idiots who do cause or attempt to cause trouble does not and should not mean others are treated like criminals.

[Will Fred]

How about the 200 odd Stoke fans standing outside the Shakespeare pub in town casually threatening passers by and singing all sorts of garbage?

Get your house in order.

[John Lougun]

"Admittedly, a relatively rare occurrence"

Sadly not the case, if you attend protests marches like I had. If you never been then I recommend that you do (more than once) and witnest first hand of what they do. It has been going on for years now.

[Tony Taylor]

I have never quite understood how I can go to the theatre on a Friday night and I get treated as a customer who is a decent, civilised human being. However, as soon as I go to a football match, I am immediately "assumed" to be anything but a decent, civilised human being. I appreciate that the Police and stewards have, at times, a difficult job to undertake but please remember that respect and courtesy for the general public should include football fans as well. I'm all for dealing with troublemakers appropriately, but those of us who go to a football match to enjoy the game are not all hooligans and we deserve better treatment.

[Andrew]

No point complaining to the IPCC, they will protect the police on this, trust me.

[Colin Hendrie]

On average there are 1.3 million football fans going to see the game on match days.

There are 141,000 police officers in the country.

That's one police officer for every 10 football fans.

If they can't cope with things as they are maybe they need to look to their tactics?

Being aggressive and threatening to people who were otherwise perfectly happy to cooperate with you clearly isn't working for anyone.

Least of all the game.

[Mark Longden]

Typical. Act first, never even bother to ask questions. They ask "why they are losing the support of ordinary law abiding citizens"?
Because in their eyes, there's no such thing, easy isn't it!

[Paul Jones]

Yet another example of the abuse of the power given to the police in charge of policing football.

There is no questioning them or reasoning. Anyone daring to even ask a question will be arrested under public order offenses or a drunk and disorderly, whether you are being so or not.

Would the police be able to move in and evict any other group of people in this way other than football fans?

Easy targets once again