With Ron

First thing this morning Ron called us in to the McLaren motorhome for a briefing. There were Brits and a few others. Ron spent most of the time explaining why the WMSC judgement is wrong and you could see that he is in denial about its findings.

Ron told us about the row with Fernando on August 5th. He made no attempt to deny the allegation that Fernando threatened him but he did not spell it out - clearly he did not want to be quoted on that. There is no doubt whatsoever that this story is true. 

What Ron did say was that half an hour after the row(a row which has cost McLaren millions of pounds and yet more damage to its reputation), Fernando and Luis Garcia Abad, his manager, came back and apologised for what they had done. Fair enough but massive damage had been done because Ron had already called Max by then.

The most interesting aspect of Ron's briefing was this(and his failure to satisfactorily answer this question). We told McLaren in all its lurid detail what we were planning to write about Fernando in Saturday's papers during Friday afternoon. I myself put it to his PR person and said it was important Ron knew the detail ie that Fernando had threatened him with the e-mails and that he would go to the FIA unless Fernando was made number one or Lewis was slowed down or Fernando was allowed to leave at the end of the season.

To my knowledge Ron was told exactly what we were going to write but he made no effort on Friday either to deny the story or tell us about Fernando's apology which would have made it quite a bit better for Fernando. As it is Fernando's reputation as a man and as a sportsman has taken a huge knock and McLaren did nothing to stop it. Was this incompetence, a desire to deflect attention away from coverage of Ron and the judgement or was it a deliberate decision to throw Fernando to the wolves?

There are hundreds of comments this morning and I will try and publish them all, in between watching quali...

Comments

[Oliver Cromwell]

"There is no doubt whatsoever that this story is true". Ed Gorman. Journalist.

You're becoming a famous man in Spain, Ed. So, what happens in England?

Wait, I'm only joking. Anyway, you'd better try to be impartial. Just like me.

[jerry]

Alonso obiously didn't conduct himself well in Hungry. If it was any other team, Alonso would be sitting out the rest of the season... which still might happen after this weekend. This really explains why Ron was looking so drained after the Hungry race. Still remains to be seen if Ron actually knew that Ferrari information was being used before Alonso informed him of the emails. So far Ron has not done anything to suggest he knew that Stepneys info was being used by a number of members of his team.

[Amy]

I've lost all my respect for Fernando regardless of the fact that he apologised. I'm gutted that someone I respected as one of my favourite drivers could behave so appallingly. Until this morning I wanted him to take the championship, but I no longer feel he deserves it. As much as I want McLaren to have amazing drivers, and as much as I previously wanted Alonso to stick around for '08, I think it would be better now for him to go.

[Santiago]

As I said in COULD THIS BE TRUE? we already know WHAT´S NEXT,
FA is not only a cheater who didnt want to share the Ferrari´s data with the engeniers in his team and tried to prove the data on his own (???), but also a bad boy who blackmailed to the virginal principals of the team with those data (???).

And also we already know WHO´S NEXT,
The virginal RD who lies not by saying what you Ed says, but for "not making any effort in denying it".

There is not worst lie than a half truth.

[IDR]

Then,

A 26 Years old in the moment he's so much ungry for an internal problem with his Team, has a huge dispute with his Boss (The Team CEO) 60 years old with a long experience in the business.

The ungry guy says things without thinking(And no doubt that this guy has done it quite often), and half an hour later, return back to his boss office to ask him for appologies.

But, in the meanwhile, his long experienced boss, get so nervous and make a telephone call to his "friend" Max Mosley to put McLaren in the biggest truble with FIA ever.

Is very difficoult to assume this story as something reliable, but it is very clear for me who is the one who has putted McLaren in big trouble.

On the other hand,

How many of all of you that were trying to show R Dennis what you were going to publish on Saturday , did some effort to show it to Fernando Alonso?

F Alonso has to talk about this soon and I hope he will do it as soonest as possible.

In any case, I appreciate your honesty in showing us what are your views on this and how you have reached your conclusions.

Although I cannot agree you, at least ap to the moment someone give the other part the opportunity to give us his view on this.

Best regards

[Mannersaye]

To this point this season, although british, I have been a firm Alonso fan and really wanted him to win the WDC again. I found his style and persona quite refreshing compared with the polished media-friendly Lewis 'the team did a fantastic job' Hamilton. I initially struggled to accept the rumours regarding Alonso's conduct, until now, when it appears overwhelming. As a result Alonso loses a great deal of my respect (not all, as he remains amongst the elite of drivers). So now I'd be happy enough if Hamilton held him off and secured a unique championship at the first time of asking. However, I don't think it is correct that he is made the scapegoat. McLaren have breached the rules and have been punished, and their image is severely tarnished. But they will also be judged on how they handle the Alonso issue. I've no idea really what they should do, save that if they did release him before the end of the season, and if Hamilton wins the WDC, then his title will be worth less than if he'd beaten Alonso over 17 rounds on the track. I'm sick of hearing all about it now, they should just get on and race.

[JSA]

Whether Alonso later made the apology by that stage was irrelevant and the damage was done to McClaren. Alonsos reputation has very deservedly taken a knock.

[Mario, Asturias, España]

Those E-mails were given by Alonso and De la Rosa under pressure of lose their driving license in F1. It´s said. Why Hamilton appear at last minute in Paris on thursday?
Because of the same pressure made by the FIA.

[Alfredo Nieto]

Reckon Dennis was paying Fernando in kind. I'm a Spaniard and I support Alonso, but trying to blackmail his boss was a big eff up on Fernando's side.

[OC]

Ed, I am still waiting for your statement saying "McLaren cheated as it used Ferrari data. They used those data to add knowledge to their cars'development."

[Luis P.]

Ed,

You never mentioned so far Hamilton's responsibilities (if any) in all this mess. I wonder if you could answer this... Do you believe Hamilton knew about the cheating going on? Was he unaware of those details, kept in the dark about Ferrari data? Because Hamilton said he was unaware of any misconduct in the FIA hearing... Is he cheating big as well? Protecting the team is not fair, in my humble opinion. If he knew he should have said so. And to me, it looks almost incredible he was the only one not to know. Was he fair in his answers to the FIA? I would love to hear your answer in any of your posts...

Thanks for your superb blog

[ian belgrave]

How do you and all the other british reporters feel now the truth of what maclaren was up to is out. will you now given the almost slaveish aderhence to Ron Denis,s pr line change tack ?. many of you even suggested that ferrari !!should be in the dock, on what grounds , being italian ? maybe now we might get more objective and balanced reporting from the likes of nigel roebuck & david treymane when it comes to Ron and Maclaren but then again maybe not, don't think nige is capable not when it comes to Ron Denis

[Guido]

Surprising that Alonso (and De La Rosa and Coughlan - the latter, even if suspended) are still with Mclaren. Threatening your boss is not a career enhancing move. In the old days it used to be called treason and you were likely to be beheaded for it. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I like the 'Ferrari put Stepney up to this to discredit Mclaren' theory. I wouldn't put it past them and wasn't Machiavelli an Italian too?

[Carlos M., London]

Ok Ed,

Congratulations to you, for being the only person in the british media to really apply a critical eye over Ron and MacLaren doings (as a tema) in all this Fernado/Sygate affair. The point here, most important of all, is that RON and the WHOLE TEAM (Alonso and Lewis) were implicated...there can't be innocent people in McLaren's paddock. To hear Ron talking about "collaborating" with the FIA and arguing that they are not "cheats"...is really sickening.

Thanks

[michelangelo]

Hi,

Ron only has a person in his mind: "McLaren". Now, McLaren, after these days is "Lewis Hamilton". It was before, of course, but now, or best, after Hungarian race, more.

But, after all we have seen from the beginning of this championship, the fairest consequences would be that Alonso will win the F1 Championship. He is the best driver with a best car since 2005. He could make it with the Renault’s F1. He needn't the Ferrari's data, everybody knows, please. And, if you have read the mails between Fernando and De la Rosa... Fernando hesitated about the Ferrari's reliability. And the races have showed us that he wasn’t in a mistake, he he...

Please, make us a favour... Give us Fernando. With him in Ferrari we will be better than we was with Schumi. Thanks to Ron's blindness. Well, Ron, Ed, and the most of McLaren's fans’ blindness (not all, I know, but...).

Ok, to end, let me be a little "clairvoyant"... with the past... The moment when Ron's plan starts to failed was wen Alonso won the last Championship... He waited that, with all the expectation of his earlier signing, Renault didn't work to Alonso as well as in the past, and Alonso didn't win, and he had arrived to McLaren as a second and not as a Bi-Champion to work with his son Hamilton.

But... Alonso is more than a pilot... No! Sorry. He is, overall, a F1 Pilot. He isn’t the son-in-low and the adopted son of the principal McLaren’s owners. Alonso is “only” the best F1 pilot actually without doubt. Please, let him come to Ferrari. Thank you.

Be happy; enjoy the 4 races more that you have with Fernando in McLaren. You will remember it for a long time… to remember your last Championship.

All the best.

[Juan]

And yet, another insult to the truht, to my eyes, of course. In Hugarian GP, Alonso tried to get the SAME advantage Hamilton was enyoing for several preceding Gp. Instead being that -to my perception of course- some yellow-press, Why don`t you post some breafing showing facts? -As a suggestion, I would pay the greatest atention to a breafing of races in which was detailed when Hamilton has an extra lap and got the pole, and when Alonso. When Alonso had got the fastest lap and when Hamilton. A bit of PURE INFORMATION, to do some contrast. In fact, Alonso was fighting to obtain the SAME oportunities, this claimed "equality", that is, try the pole with same laps!!. And you may include another FACT: At Hungaroring, with the same laps, same car, with USED tyres (the new ones were in wrong pressure, what a casuallity!!), EVEN in this situation, Alonso had got the pole, stolen by the Fia, in order to allow Hamilton to win, (oh! yes, I'm so paranoid.. but this facts, are never showed or comented to the british public, aren't they?). And now, it is likely Ecleston has found the way to end the career of the driver who ended his preceding gem, Schumager, the one that can battle Hamilton in the future. Or perhaps you are only trying to disturb Alonsos' mind. But all your efforts seem to me to be directed (and that is a perception I have being feeling during the whole session) to have-a-bash-on-Alonso with any excuses. Now, after Monza, "Another Touch of Class", I posted another experimental fact that it had being observed during this session, after each Alonsos' success. After Australia, part of a roof damaged his car in a way, in Ron Dennis word, "to be find out after the race, because we don't know exactly why Alonsos' car doesn't perform well", after Monaco, "Lewis et all" started the whinging war (till this moment, no moan was heard at McLaren team, another FACT to be considered), spoiling the evindent superior performance Alonso was obtained during that weekend. Really, gentlemans class. After Nurburbring, the Hungaroring Fiasco, the confirmation for Alonso that the supossed equality was just an media-image effect for the british public hiding them part of the truth. And after Monza, I posted it: What would be the next problem this time? Here we are. The first reading was "Hamilton driver to despair", insinuating a excusse for the fact that Alonso had beaten Hamilton, and after, you are creating the funds to believe Alonso has being enjoing advantages because of his blackmailing. In fact, Eccleston, Denis and you are destroying Alonso's image, trying to justify why Hamilton has to win or...to win. Facts again show that in the fastes tracks, in the most technical tracks, Alonso has beaten Lewis, and you has being trying to spoil this succes, because it looks like an axiom, Hamilton is fastest and if he lose, if for bad luck, lack of motivation, the bitter Alonso, choose your preffered one.. In Monaco, after three races in F1, Hamilton was moanig that "He wouldn't stand with the same situation that Barrichello supported in the past". Are you kidding? After three races??, with a mate who was actually working for him? It was simpply a ridiculous situation. And now, we reach the second important fact whose explanation was unaccesible to me...till now. I have posted it in the paper but it have being censored. During the whole session, when people talked about if Alonso is the one who do the setup with De la Rosa, even Hamilton has recognised in the press-room several times, I always touht if I was Ron, my main priority were Lewis to learn the same Alonso Know about a car, How to feel till the extreme every detail in order to get the most complete driver for the following years, with such a teacher you could contrast your doing, build your intuition, would be perfect. Now, I know the explanation of this apparently absurd situation. They were CHEATING and there were TOO MUCH RISK for Hamilton's image. It was preferible, if this whole stuff exploted, which was a very real posibility, that Hamilton were kept asaid, clean, in a "Oh, I only drive, I hasn't internet, Alonso and De la Rosa did it all, I'm here at Paris supporting the team, look at me, could I be nicest?..I'm so cute".
In other consideration, If Alonso and his manager stupidly threatened Ron after Hungarian fiasco and consecuent -and comprehensible- annoyance, and half an hour later the realised about how stupid they were showed themselves, and apoligesed, let me think Ron were precipitated to talk to Fia, Half an hour my friend!!...it feels as if he was very hurry to do it, as if he had found the way to destroy Alonso, first stopping his succesfull career in Renault, offering him what He hadn't, obviusly, in the middle of the session, very disgusting style to me, and after, deniying him at least the same oportunities and gentleman deal he deserves, remember that when he signed with Mclaren, no body talked about Hamilton being the second driver, De la Rosa was suppossed to be that one, ironies...I wonder the way you make a decision as the Ron's one. It would be crazy you firs phone to some VERY IMPORTANT FRIENDS, that kind to have hollidais in a 100feets yathch, considere the whole issue, the risks, the advantages...have I to believe that a man of the Ron's experience phone half an hour after a meeting with to ungry man?...I think F1 is showing his sewering in a too evident way, really I'm very deceptioned about Alonso behavior, taking part on a cheating like this, and of course I'm not so stupid to believe only Coughlan De la Rosa and Alonso knew that. You are working hand to hand during months, you have experience in a team like McLaren, you realised that some information don't came from the Saint Spirit, even if at the begining you weren't told. Be serious for one time. I know the main of my post are simply speculations, but I find some sense in what I'm trying to point here. Regards to you all.

[ViscaCatalunya]

Mr Gorman, again you manage to present rumours as facts. You are a sensationalist not a journalist.You are aware that several people from the team have been involved in the scandal. Including several people with a much more important role in the development of the car. Still your headlines only try to damage Fernando Alonso. What is your aim with this? There seems to be a deeper reason for this. I’m surprised as well mr Dennis calls you in for a briefing, judging the overall tenure in this blog, I would guess he has your mobile no.

Seriously, give up your day job before the Times decides that enough is enough. You are damaging the reputation of your paper and sport journalism in general with your fanatism.

[Pedro, Pamplona, Spain]

I just remember you, Ed, after Hungaryan Grand Prix, talking about Hamilton in this terms: "Lewis has shown he is prepared to play dirty to win". This literally and, maybe, in an admirative tone. Alonso has played dirty, of course, as well as Ron. Is it really that important to know who has played dirtiest? Isn't it, in fact, what children try to elucidate when caught in a row?

[john o'doe]

Why is this unholy piece posted in RELIGION?

[Aequitas]

Was the row at the same Hungary GP in which Hamilton used the four letter word to tell Ron to mind his own business? What is the difference between what Hamilton and Alonso did? Both events only speak to Ron's inability to manage the team.

[Legis]

It is curious. Now it seems that just de la Rosa and Alonso knew the top secret information about Ferrari´s set up. From your lines it seems that everybody in Mclaren is pure as angels but the the evil Spaniards. But is completly obvious that in a team like McLaren team in wich ALL the decisions are supervised by Ron Dennis (remember the structure of the team), everybody involved on the cars development must be reported and at least, Ron Dennis was the first one to know the Ferrari´s secrets, their origin, and was the one that allowed or not the changes on the cars. And be sure that Hamilton also knew what was happening. So ALL the McLaren team is cheat. And all includes Ron Dennis, Alonso, Hamilton and de la Rosa. But more than cheat (the team with Dennis at head) Ron Dennis was unable to solve the personal crisis between Alonso and Hamilton properly.
So Ron Denis is the head of the cheat team, and is not innocent because he could report to FIA the first day he was reported about the Ferrari´s papers benefited by the reserved information. The histoy that Alonso threated Dennis as a manoeuver to be in the place that he thought he deserved (but only after Hamilton was dirty in Monaco and Hungaroring)and the Dennis reported FIA has some obscure points. What could Dennis expect from FIA after: "well, we have never used the information we have about Ferrari, but Alonso and de la Rosa have some papers that you should review..."? Really Dennis thought that FIA will punish Alonso and forgive McLaren with the evidence that McLaren tried the Ferraris set up, obviously with the Dennis approval?
It seems more that knowing himself he was lost all the possibilities to keep clean himself and his team, he projected the focus over the "evil" Alonso.

[Jorge]

The question is; Why Ron Dennis leaks all this stuff just right now? The answer is showing pretty clear to me.

Alonso is up to 3 points when 4 races left. This is the alibi for McLaren to breack the selfproclaimed "equality police". Hereinafter we'll see how fair Ron and McLaren are

[luigi]

with no remorse you seem determinated to follow and follow your own yellow brick road (Hamilton as dorothy, Ron as the wizard, and Alonso as... whatever).

that´s the way you write story to sell it as history.

and that´s the way in the end you are trapped in your own story.

Alonso wanted to go out of mclaren. do you imagine another year with alonso in mclaren? now you are who need to break the situation.

Maybe mclaren not only has now to let him go out, but even to pay him all his contract for getting that, if he begins to see who feels really uncomfortable in this world of fantastic lies.

[Pasquale]

Dear Ed,
I'm getting a bit confused with all these different points of view on the same story. I'd like to get a sort of a summary. May I try to do it myself, just to test my degree of understanding (quite poor I guess...)?

According to the documents handed over to FIA, Fernando Alonso seems to be a cheater, but considering the reports coming from several sources, he appears to be a blackmailer too.

Pedro De La Rosa is only and a simple cheater: he did not try to blackmail his team and that is way we consider him loyal and honest.

Lewis Hamilton is nor a cheater not a blackmailer: he kept doing his great job knowing nothing about documents arriving from a corrupted man, previously working for Ferrari, and filtered from a not unimportant technician (maybe Coughlan was something more than a simple "technician", I do not know...).

Ron Dennis was pure, honest and innocent: he did not know anything about all that and he only got some vague knowledge of what was going on when Alonso tried to use his information to blackmail the same team he was cheating for, hoops, I wanted to write "he was working for". Most of all, Dennis was not lying when he kept saying that nothing illegal had been done by his team, aside for Coughlan, who had been suspended for that.

According to what I can "grasp" from your last articles (especially "Bad friday"), Alonso behaved quite badly against Ron Dennis and his team, but not so bad against "the sport", loyalty, fairness and so on while he was trying to get and advantage for himself (and for his team) by using documents acquired illegally. Alonso should be blamed to have obliged, in a way, Ron Dennis to denounce the illegal trade of technical data coming from Ferrari and being used by "only" three of the men working for his team, while nobody else in the team knew about it.

All this leads to the conclusion that McLaren did not deserve to be punished at all and that the only people who deserved punishment and blame were Coughlan, who was so naif to have behaved in a very dangerous way for his team, and Alonso, who seemed to care only about his own advantage, showing no loyalty to the team he works for (so far...). Most of all, those who deserved a severe punishment were Ferrari's heads, who weren't able to prevent their former employee from passing over precious documents to another team.

Have I "grasped" and summarised well the content of the last articles in the Time online and posts in the forum? Or maybe I got it wrong because English is a foreign language for me and for many others Formula 1 fans?

I'm sure many readers are ready to tell me if and where I was wrong.

Thank you all.

Cheers
Pasquale

[Rafael]

LH and FA must abandon: To win or not to win; that's the only reason for cheaters. I'm not agree with FA conduct but RD seems like a big liar and a cheater too in benefit of LH. In my personal opinion, a very bad boss for a team; he must go home and retirement because he is a bad CEO and not deffense the mark, their pilots and theirs sponsors, and now cry, cry, cry. I don't believe him.

[Juan]

Well, this is just a little more of the TYPICAL british "yellow press".

[Rafhe]

It seems that too many comments here are biased by nationality and not providing opinion based on the evidence at hand?!

Ron Dennis needs to consider his position as this happened in his back-yard. He should acknowledge that he is in part to blame... this happened on his watch after all. Moreover, no matter the conflict that may present itself in terms of sponsorship, driver's title or other considerations, Alonso allegedly attempted to blackmail him. This is paramount to holding his (Alonso's) contractual agreement in contempt. This should result in severe punishment, and in this case, being sacked from the McLaren team.

Alonso should spend considerable time reflecting on his behaviour. From the evidence presented he has behaved unethically, and with a flagrant disregard for sportsmanship. Not just towards his colleague Lewis Hamilton, but also with complete contempt for all of his fellow drivers in F1. Shame on Alonso. He should resign his postition, the only way he can possibly attempt to rectify the damage that he has done to the sport.

As for Lewis Hamilton, please, PLEASE!!! Where is there any evidence that he has done any wrong?

McLaren. Accept your culpability, eject Alonso should he be too slow to resign, and sign-up Rosberg or Kubica.

[mark]

basic fact: Alonso tried to blackmail McLaren.

Goodbye Fernando.

[Verbal]

Explosive stuff coming out at Spa, apparently Rons call to the FIA was not as innocent as it migh seem to some but an attempt to hood-wink the FIA - read on
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40683

[Pablo]

who cares about the lies on the british press?. At the end of the season Fernando is going to be the world champion again. Then the british press can bark as much as they want, as they do now, right Ed?

[Steven Todd]

what confuses me about all this nonsense is what are the FIA doing about Ferrari? Its well known and copiously documented they had an illegal car at the beginning of the year. Will they get a ban and a fine?

[Luis]

To Oliver Cromwell

In Hungry 07 Alonso did not make anything bad. It is was Hamilton and the proof of it, It was seen when his team did not participate in the celebration.

It was a Hamtrick ¡ Darling

[Jesús]

The story about the row and the subsequent phonecall by Ron to Max is the most stupid I have read during all this nonsense (and unfortunately I have read plenty of them)

So Ron said to Max: "allright Max, you were right, we cheated. But I won't recognise anything to the public. I won't give you any evidence, you'll have to ask my pilots to give them to you. And I'll press them not to do so. I only wanted to give you the definitive clue about this, but without making anything that ensured I would get some kind of clemency in return"

The Times. Ruining his international prestige with lies so evident that insult the intelligence of its readers.

[nengdecastefa]

Mosley has just said that it was not Ron Dennis who told the FIA about the new relevant information, but it seems that Ron Dennis had no problem at all leaving the press blame Fernando Alonso for everything McLaren has been doing this season.

[gregorio]

Despite of his years of experience, it seems pretty obvious that Dennis has not been up his job.
Apparently, too many issues involved in a mind not very well trained for the careful analysis they required. Does he have any relevant studies or whatever could objectively demonstrate he can think horizontally through complex issues?
or just experience? (like asking drivers no to get into the paddock with the sunglasses...)
Bad luck. The most promising year for Mc laren in a decade and such a clumsy manager in charge.
Basically, there are two scenarios, either you knew and did nothing at that time (so guilty and the penalty is well deserved) or you knew nothing while everybody around you was using (or having access) the information (so negligent and the team guilty in any case).
Alonso involvement, in the end, is not the key issue here. It may have had an influence but do not blame him for this. It may well have happen with any other driver.
The problem between the two drivers, is simple another example of bad management. Equality, what a simplistic an irreal idea. Absolute equality does not exist. The most you can aim is to treat them fairly and that means that they should get what they deserve.
Based on what has happened this year, this may seem to be an unextricable idea for him, so no need to elaborate further.
Dennis go home and enjoy the retirement

[Dr S Leong]

Ed, It's so obvious that McLaren and Ron Denis in particular wants to put the blame on others (Alonso and others) for what is clearly a clear cut case of cheating and dishonest behaviour. If one lies often enough, one ultimately believes the lie itself. This explains why McLaren and Ron Denis is always in a state of denial of wrong doing. Even if Hamilton (or Alonso) goes on to win the championship, I hope it goes on record that the first few races won by them were with prior knowledge of Ferrari's race strategy (i.e by CHEATING). It's such a hollow victory. It's OK beacause the Brits had never won anything for such a long time, so a hollow victory is still good enough? Shame on you.

[kenBrockman]

Mark,

basic fact: you have no evidence that Fernando Alonso did such a thing

basic fact: there is no need for McLaren to sack Fernando Alonso for it is him who wants to leave McLaren, just let him go.

Never let reality spoil your biased way of thinking

Bye bye McLaren

[Jesús]

So, Dennis was the only guy in the team that knew nothing about the Ferrari info? Ok, I did not believe the phonecall story because I thought that, in case the row was true, I supposed Ron was smart enough not to alert the FIA in exchange of nothing.

It seems I was wrong. Poor sad guy...

[ramplano]

Well, Mr. Mosley latest statement seems to confirm that FA actually tried to blackmail Dennis, shame on him(FA)! He not only got involved in the spygate but threatened to use it as a weapon, appalling if is true.The only tiny bit of deffence he's got is the fact that Mclaren was driving him mad barring him from having his own private set up and being forced to share it with Lewis, his fierce competitor. in any case shame on FA! He is out of Mclaren and he wiil be in big trouble to find a car to drive. I believe that it is time for Dennis and Alonso to step forward and give out their versions of the affair.I am really sorry about the whole thing given I am Spanish and an Alonso supporter. What a shame!

[Legis]

Very intesting news. So...Should be possible that Dennis be not as good and pure and Alonso so bad? Who ran to tell Ecclestone so bad was Alonso? Alonso at least wins races, but Ron Dennis does not know manage his team...Who is the traitor with his employee? "Please Bernie, blame Alonso, I am pure, I have more than 700 pages from Ferrari but I have never readed them. Alonso has lots of information that only he knows and uses, because as you know my two drivers do not share information about their set up"...(crying)
And poor Hamilton. So good, and incredibily good without notice of the improvements that Alonso made on his car thanked his knowledge about Ferrari´s set up...But what had happened in Monza and in Spa? Why Hamilton with the same car that Alonso is no so fast?...

[Sean King]

I'm a McLaren fan. But how can I supoort Alonso after this? He should not be allowed to compete for the driver's championship. This whole sorry episode makes me think long and hard about the team I've supported for years.

[IDR]

TO MARK

"Basic fact":

Then you probably know much more about this than all British media, or you forgot to put "allegedly" the most used word in the last few days.

"Goodbye Fernando" :

Is, as Ed said, what Fernando was asking to Ron.

Then the actions taken by Ron seems a very complex way to do achieve it and much much more expensive for the Team he leads than any other one. I´m afraid that this story will appear very soon as one of the Top ten mismanagement cases in all Business Administration Universities.

The story, is not complete... yet.

We all will see...

[Ng Chan]

Dear Ed,
When are you going to say Mc Laren was cheating? and by the way, the guy (please, a bit respect to the double Champion of the World), wasn´t given something exceptional to be humble (Alonso have two sponsors, Santander/Abbey and MM and even Vodafone wanted to gain the Spanish market)because he had beaten the 7 times COTW Schumacher and was the double Champio of the World. Please, Ed, chapeau to Alonso. About Ron, well the most sure he called a few lawyers after Alonso told him a few words and they decided the best defence would be a good attack. And, considering the lack of character of Denis, do not tell me he decided to call inmediately "his friend" Mosley. Please, we know something about life, Ed, don´t be so naive

[Rebeka]

If you don´t want to link it. Here you have FIA´s boss words:

FIA president Max Mosley has disputed the impression given by Ron Dennis that he made the governing body aware of the new evidence that prompted it to revisit the spying case.

Speaking at Spa on Saturday, Mosley confirmed that Dennis called to tell him that Fernando Alonso had threatened to hand over damaging evidence to the FIA.

But Mosley said Dennis assured him that no emails discussing confidential Ferrari information in fact existed – an assurance which later proved to be ill-founded.

“What actually happened was not at the Nurburgring but in Hungary,” Mosley told a scrum of reporters and photographers.

“On the morning of the Hungarian Grand Prix, Ron rang me and he said, “I’ve just had Alonso in the motorhome and he says he’s got information and he’s threatening to give it to the Federation.

“So I said, “What did you say Ron?” He replied, “I said ‘go on and hand it over’.”

“I said, “Ron, you said exactly the right thing.”

“And then Ron said, ‘But there isn’t any information.’

“So I said, “So it’s an empty threat?”

“And he replied: ‘Yes, a completely empty threat. There’s no information, there’s nothing to come out; I can assure you that if there was something, Max, I would have told you.’”

Without making a direct accusation that Dennis lied to him, Mosley implied that he had been misled by the McLaren team principal.

“Now this was a week after looking me in the eye in the World Council and telling me there was absolutely nothing wrong and everybody had done exactly as they should do, so I believed him," he said.

“I’ve known Ron for 40 years; it’s very difficult for me, when somebody I’ve known for 40 years looks me in the eye and says, ‘Max, I’m telling the truth with complete sincerity’ – you believe him.

“It was only when I got the list from the Italian police [showing] 323 SMS phone calls going over a three-month period between Coughlan and Stepney, [that I concluded] there had to be more to this.

“You don’t get 300 messages arranging a visit to Honda. This is something serious.

“At which point I sat down and wrote the letter to the drivers, and the rest is history.”

Who lies? Easy, isn´t it?

[Carlos Sánchez-Ocaña]

Ed,

There is a huge difference between gossip and information. On top of that you show not criticism at all towards LH while FA seems to be an engineer rather than F1 driver. Time and checked information will tell us what the responsibility of each one at Mclaren is.

By the way I totally agree with Pasquale.

kind regards

[Santiago]

Max disputes Ron's version of events ITV. TODAY.

C´MON ED. WHAT ABOUT YOUR ANGELICAL MEDS. DID YOU NOTICED LH IS ONE OF YOUR READERS. YOU DONT WRITE FOR HIM, DO YOU?

[Alex]

Ed, you are an authentic hooligan

[JE]

Alonso is a confirmed cheater and would-be blackmailer. Was equality that hard to live with Freddie?

It's appalling, but I believe he will remain at McLaren for 2008, though I doubt (sincerely hope) Ron Dennis won't be as concerned with stroking the Spaniard's ego as he has been this year.

As far as I am concerned he is unforgivable. McLaren should continue to treat him equally but distance themselves from him.

[mark]

Say what you like about:

1 McLaren
2 Ferrari
3 Hamilton
4 Dennis
5 Any other part of the issue.

The FACT is that Alonso is indefensible. He has shown himself to be a man of low morals standards.

Goodbye Alsonso. And goodbye to any so called sports fans who are stupid enough to defend him.

[Antonio]

Ed,
Is it possible that only De La Rosa, Alonso and Coughlan knew about Ferrari secrets?
Why didn't they tell any other name to FIA?

I think Alonso and De La Rosa are protecting McLaren by getting all the bad for them.
(and this bad is not so much, since they gained "the immunity" for their career, and people forget fast)

[Anthony]

I think actions speak louder than words, and Ron Dennis doing absolutely nothing to prevent Alonso's reputation getting more beat up, not to mention the fact that he wasn't about to reveal the info he had until Alonso threatened him with it, says a lot about how guilty McLaren really are...

And, the fact that Alonso decided to use the truth as a playing card forcing his own team to rat themselves out, says a lot about the kind of driver Alonso is.

In other words, Alonso should stay at McLaren, because they are a match made in heaven!

[IDR]

Ed,

Have you red what REBEKA posted here?

Is a transcription of what appears in http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40683

Are you going to create a new post linking this. A comment from you on this will be much appreciated.

[Santiago]

VERY DISTURBING NOTICE

This morning on spanish tv while the qualif a notice come through. Ed could you be kind enough to confirm it?

It is that Mr Mosley has writen to McLaren team making them aware that anything wrong with Fernando´s car should arise during the tomorrow´s race, would be investigated by the FIA.

If it true Why the FIA is protecting FA? Have them any proves that FA have been treated in an unfair manner during this championship, and want to prevent this treatment from now on.

Maybe it is only Rubish. But why a journalist wants to make up stories? I ask you as an expert in this theme, I mean because you are a journalist. What else?

[Peter]

I can´t believe that I read. The whole people is clean, Rd is an angel, only FA knew about Ferrari papers and only FA used this. If FA knew that Raikkonen was goingo to stop in lap 18 in Australia, the team and Hamilton too. If all this is due to FA, why FIA was close to punish to Hamilton? (See pont 8.14 from resolution)

[IDR]

Ed,

After reading Max Mosley declarations to the ITV, I must write some more things:

Alonso is an emotional guy and make mistakes. No doubt on this. But Ron Dennis behaviour in this affair deserve a complete treaty of mismanagement.

In business issues, what is heavily punished is not the bad behaviour, is Stupidity.

In this case, the tremendous Ron's ego (and pride), make him to made the more stupid thing I´ve ever seen from a Group CEO.

Maybe Alonso behaves as a child in the row with Ron, but I am sure that he never could imagine that Ron was going to be as stupid as he has largely demonstrated.

Then my Stupidity ranking on this, with the information I have up to now, is:

1) Ron Dennis
(Max Mosley has already explained why)

2) Pedro de la Rosa
(Is a nice guy but, how can he wrote that kind of
things in a mail? Even when FA show his doubts,
he insist again: Oh no Fernando! believe me, is
true...)

3) Coughly and Stpeny, chating through sms.

4) All british media
who has wrotten all things that R Dennis said
yesterday without contrasting the information
with the other actor's. (Max, FA)

Another piece of shit coming from the ventilator that R Dennis has switched on.

Is not the first... and will not be the last.

Best Regards

[Gonzalo]

Wow, Fernando did it again today...

Despite "being thrown to the wolves" he beat "wonderboy" by a wide margin. First Monza then Spa...

And the rain could still pay us a visit...

Please, keep putting pressure on the man. You know the old saying "When things get tough, tough get going". These Asturian boys are tough die-harders...

Maybe little Lewis started feeling the pressure... so if we cannot beat the double wold champion on the track let's try to find "other ways"...

And I have news for you Ed, there is a legal entity called a contract.
Because there was a contract Fernando was not being allowed to leave McLaren at the end of the season and McLaren is now forced to give him a competitive car till the end of the season... Well, they can always add a few million dollars to the $100M fine. THE SPONSORS WILL LOVE IT !!!

Nobody cares but after reading carefully the WMSC dossier it was Pedro the one in the middle of the email scandal. As I see it, Pedro was just doing his job to get a car as competitive as possible IN A TEAM THAT WAS CHEATING by using Ferrari's confidential information. Remember he was the test driver, one of member of the team responsible for developing the car testing the validity of different improvements.

He discussed some details of their activities with Fernando that was also involved in the development of the car.

Meanwhile Lewis was "allegedly" playing PlayStation with his daddy. We knew "wonderboy" did nothing to develop the car, didn't we? His "PS player skills" are, without doubt, a valuable asset to any F1 team.

Opps...I was forgetting it...Of course, during the whole season Lewis's car did not include any of the improvements coming from Ferrari's confidential info.We know LH and FA were racing all this season with totally different machines, don't we? So FIA should ban Alonso because of the spy scandal but not Hamilton, right?
As I see it the two men should have lost 15-20 points at least to level things off with Ferrari's drivers (You not only have to be honest you must also look honest)

C'mon, would anybody with an IQ above 20 believe that,in McLaren, only Coughlan,DLR and FA knew about the leaked info coming from Stepney?

What Fernando should have never done is selfishly putting Pedro on the line. IMO the man (Pedro)always behaved as a loyal McLaren employee and now is being used as a scapegoat by the British papers. Shame on you!

[Peter]

I can´t believe that I read. The whole people is clean, Rd is an angel, only FA knew about Ferrari papers and only FA used this. If FA knew that Raikkonen was goingo to stop in lap 18 in Australia, the team and Hamilton too. If all this is due to FA, why FIA was close to punish to Hamilton? (See pont 8.14 from resolution)

[TONY]

Will Santiago and all other Alonso fans please do as I have done (I WAS ALSO A BIG AL0NSO FAN) and recognise that the FIA case against Mclaren led to such severe punichment because, AS ALONSO AND DE LA ROSA HAVE ADMITTED TO THE FIA, they asked Coughlan to provide them with Ferrari data.
Both of Mclaren's Spanish drivers were therefore behaved as cheats and both are therefore very lucky to keep their FIA superlicenses.
I also cannot possibly see how Dennis would have known of the emails and reported this to the FIA
if Alonso had not blackmailed him into getting Number 1 driver status to allow him to win the world championship again.
If Alonso does not sue Dennis for libellous statements against him he is both a cheat (admitted) and a blackmailer (which he has not denied).
He has let down all of his fans and the sport to such an extent that I hope he decides to quit F1. He has shamed himself and done enormous harm to his employer and a great sport.

[Augusto Baena]

Everything is so absurd. In July hearings, Ron said thay had had an internal investigation and that nobody in the team new anything. Didn't that internal investigation cover internal McLaren server emails? What farce of an investigation was that?

Either Ron lied, or he has completely lost control of the team absolutely, and people laugh about him behind the corners.

I think it is more likely that he lied.

Mismanagment, in any case.

Regards

[iker]

This mail are completely normal between the pilots in all the teams(remember that tha dates are before the Stepneygate)
Dennis knew all this shit

Your idol will be destroy in less than a month.
Wait and see who is the best.
Hamilton sholud pay Alonso for this year of acelerated lessons of Formula 1

[iker]

I thought that The Times was the most serious paper in the world.
What a pitty!
Sorry, you are treating the readers like silly persons

[Alfredo Nieto]

No comment about Moseley's comments, Ed?

[jlk]

It is starting to become clear to me why Europeans seem so prone to be swayed by their own prejudices. No matter what facts they are faced with they still pursue the same path coming up with the flimsiest rationale for their positions. If Alonso did it...it is a conspiracy against him while at the same time spouting silly conspiracy theories against Hamilton.I guess that is where the various 9/11 "silly theories" (i.e. the CIA or the Israelis did it) come from. Cmon people curb your emotions and think about it logically! And by the way hurling a constant barrage of insults at Ed is pretty silly as well. He is doing his best to be balanced, but then of course I understand that as a native speaker. And yes if Luis, IDR and the rest of you want to take this as an insult it wasn't meant to be but I assume that you will anyway... so fire away!
JLK
JLK

[Antonio]

Ed,

Please, let's analyze the facts:

1) LH has promoted an investigation against his own team in monaco.

2) LH has promoted other investigation against his own team in Hungry. Result: penalty for the team and penalty for FA.

3) Felipe Masa told to a journalist the FA penalty before was published by the FIA.

3) There are rare problemes in the FA's car: used tires, tires pressures, etc.

4) Neither FA or Pedro are engineers. Pedro says in a mail "we must try it at the simulator". Who is programming the simulator?

5) Due to the McLaren's "equality" policy who benefit this information?

6) The F1 owner is british

7) The FIA's president is also british, but hate Ron Dennis

8) McLaren has played dirty (spy...). Result 100M$ penalty and loss of constructor's qualification.

9) Ferrari has played dirty (illegal components in the cars). Result: won the constructors championiship (good gift!) and the money associated.

10) McLaren is the best example on "how to not manage a company"

Conclussion: The FIA's rules for the championiship has to articles:
- Article 1. Must won ferrari.
- Article 2. In case that will be impossible the article 1, must won a british driver.

HAHAHAHAHA

Ed, : So, I supposse that Max is lying:

Ron is definetely not up to this job.

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40683

And more things are coming.

In the meantime, Alonso 3rd and who knows...

I think he still might take number one to Ferrari next year. Massa and Hamilton are such good friends...

Insider

[Javier P.]

1. McLaren says good bye to I title of constructors, by own merits.

2. Ron has ruined its reputation like team director, the work of all a life to the sweepings to follow trivialities of Lewis.

3. F. Alonso, it is not teacher of children of anybody and much less of LH, 2 times champion of the world (with Michael S. in track), and Ron tried to have it in the equipment like professor of the idiot of Lewis.

The best for..:
- Rum is to retire already with the little dignity that still it has left.

- Fernando to go away ALREADY of McLaren, in where so badly they have treated it.

I hope that McLaren is objective and looks for new director for their equipment.

[Felix]

I'm lost. So, who is responsible of cheating after all, Alonso or McLaren?.

If it's Alonso, why the FIA have imposed a penalty to McLaren instead to Alonso?.

Why the British people are defending a company that have accused, and found guilty, of cheating?. Just because is an English company?.

So Alonso, with his spoilt child attitude, is just an scapegoat for the media?.

Should not you be blaming on McLaren for being cheaters instead of on Alonso for being a telltale?.

Enlighten me, please.

[anna]

it was proven that mcl did cheat- and in that number the pilots, coughlan, ron and all the others. and they have lied to us all these 3 months.I don't care about the tinniest details,the championship is just polluted and that's all. it's shameful. I think it's better if mcl don't take the drivers' title neither.ferrari may not deserve it fully,but at least didn't cheat!

[Phil]

Simpw question. If McClaren , as a company , ave been found guilty of corporate ceating - why are their two cars still racing? Also as an aside , Alonso had access to Ferrari secrets and Hamilton hadn`t? Why should that be so?
I understand very little of what has gone on.
Phil

[DisasterArea]

I fully agree with Peter:

The whole season, RD and Friends have been shouting, that the success is result of TEAM-work.

And now, a spanyard shall be the "only responsible" for the stealing of information from a competitor.

Racism?

By the way - What nationality hat Coughan and Stephney? - McLaren is located where?

@Ed: Why you don't start a campaign regarding "Ethics and Sports" - of course against Fernando Alonso (lol).

[Santiago]

Poor Ron, If he have shut his mouth up, this wouldnt have gone back to him, now he has the top of FIA saying that:

1. McLaren has been lucky to scape with such a little penalty
2. He is a lier to people looking into their eyes.
3. As a lier cannot be believed on what he says about FA, and is totally discredited.

I feel sorry for him. Maybe will have a better time in other job.

[L. Aiksu]

The best thing that could happen to F1 right now is that Hamilton and Alonso would colide and retire and Räikkönen would surprise everyone by winning the WDC.

The whole year lasting smear-campaign against Alonso by the British press and British "F1 insiders" make me wanna puke even if I 've never suported Alonso I hope he wins Ron & Hamilton at least.

And I find it prettty naive thinkin that only Alonso and DeLaRosa used the Ferrari data. I would bet my yellow marbells that everyone knew at McLaren but are still acting like the foreigners Alonso and DeLaRosa are the ones to blame.

Why didn't Hamilton hand his emails to FIA and why did he get off the hook.

[Jason]

For 20+ years Dennis has lectured the FIA and the world about Ferrari's and Michael Schumacher's (and everyone else's) real or imagined transgressions from his view of "the purity of the sport". Now the shoe has gone securely on the other foot. After publication of the FIA evidence document, Dennis has no choice but to face the rot in his own team caused by Fernando's cheating (I don't know what else you can call it) not to mention attempted blackmail.
However, while Dennis may have been blind either by circumstance or intention, he is not stupid. I believe he will allow FA and Hamilton to fight out the 2007 Driver's Championship. Whether FA wins or loses, Dennis will then see who will pay the most to buy out the last two years of the Spaniard's McLaren contract - I suspect the amount required will pretty much take care of the net of the FIA's penalty.
After Alonso is gone from the team, Dennis will then tell the whole unvarnished story of Alonso's corrosive influence at McLaren - leaving what ever team Alonso winds up joining with even more seriously "damaged goods" as the new season begins.
"Revenge is a dish best eaten cold."

[Ronnie]

It should be remembered that, according to Alonso, he has been ostracized by Dennis and, knowing that he (Dennis) knew about his actions, and, knowing he had immunity from the FIA, I don't blame him for not risking being crossed by Dennis like he was when he didn't reprimand Hamilton for not respecting the race order. Once the team discipline has been broken it's every man for himself. It's just like a family, when the parents don't have any authority over their children, any behavior is to be expected.

[Pepito]

Disclaimer: I'm a Spaniard and a fan of Alonso.

The fact of the matter is, I can't help but to feel deeply saddened and frustrated by this whole drama. I have tried hard to find a thousand reasons why I shouldn't be so disappointed at Fernando, but I find myself quickly running out of ideas here. That McLaren is guilty of this or that is something that, frankly, preoccupies me little at this point. But I was hoping all throughout this season that Alonso's prima donna complex at McLaren did not ultimately tarnish his image or get in the way of the championship. And boy was I wrong.

[MATT]

The Ed Gorman blog is a valuable resource for all F1 fans.

But I think it is now time to remove the comments section.

Why continue to provide a platform for the ignorant Alonso fans who cannot face up to the unpleasant reality about their 'hero', even when it has been proved that he is a cheat and bad loser.

To avoid reality the Alonso fans distort the truth and make up stories about others who have actually demonstrated a lifetime of integrity in F1.

I will not be reading the comments section anymore and I suggest other fair minded individuals do the same, but please keep posting your blog Ed.

[michael mbah]

MUDDY WATERS…

I still don’t see why the "he said she said” reports and rumors are taking up much of our time and as these things usually go we will never get the whole truth. So in that light I believe the important thing is to stick with the facts, which are that one F1 team had secret and sensitive data of a competitor which would give them a tremendous advantage. This is a crime or at best against sporting rules and as such will need to be punished. The fact the head of the offending team is denying that it was used and that the penalty is unfair is worrying to say the least (does he honestly believe the offence was that minor? Depending on the answer he is either involved or naive).

HOW I SEE IT:
1. DID THEY CHEAT? YES
2. WERE THEY CAUGHT? YES
3. HAVE THEY BEEN PENALIZED? YES
4. THEY GOT AWAY WITHOUT A BAN
5. THE RACE GOES ON…

[chiquito]

Of course, if you are britain you are innocent... lewis the little pink princess and the ron the empire getlemen didnt know anything about ferraris cars... and the britain engineers at mclaren are innocent too DE LA ROSA Y ALONSO BUILD THE CAR ??? JUAS JUAS

[DANIEL]

I think tomorrow is going to be a bad day for you, Mr gorman, but dont worry, they have aspirins in Belgium.
By the way: Where is Lewis Hamilton´s father now?
and watching Ron Dennis today, Who is now the "crying babe"?
you thought you could scare alonso?...you are crazy,guys.
I will enjoy with the end of this season.tomorrow will be the first chapter of the film "Gone with the wind" ( i cleared saw the name of the film looking today the face of Hamilton checking the lap times of the Q3)
I bet for Alonso, i have always done, and I will always do.Its a matter of principles.
good night, Mr gorman.

sincerly yours,
Daniel, Madrid

[Pedro, Valladolid]

Ron Denis Revenge.

Ron dennis needs to make traps. Today all we have seen it. He has pressed alonso to commits errors. Ron robbed the information to Ferrari and Ron informed to the FIA.

Hamilton will be the champion in 2007. Congratulations to the English "tifosi", but it has left to you too expensive.

Ron Dennis is Little Red Riding Hood and Alonso is Bad Wolf. Here's the real history:

http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0333.html

;-)

[Juan]

ALONSO ANSWERS THIS IN A BRILLIANT MANNER:

"You have to be too stupid if you believe the FIA condemned Mclaren because of my two emails".

Ron Dennis can not manage this and it is quite annoying how he tries to make Alonso guilty.

And the british people always believing the lies of british press. You can check this in british history where more than the half of it is just a lie.

Alonso´s gonna win in Spa. I hope it will rain.

[Manuel]

Hi Ed
What a nice surprise ¡¡. I can find the results of F1 qualifying at The TIMES this week.
Congratulations again. You are the only one.

[Rmarco]

Anybody who has a little understanding of the F1 knows that the flow of information between teams goes back and forth as in a normal basis, so Alonso and De la Rosa did nothing unusual in that exchange of mails.
Once reading this mails I laugh to whoever thinks this is the real reason for the Mclaren ban.
Alonso just said to the Spanish media he did not threatened RD:
http://www.as.com/articulo/Motor/Alonso/ha/mentido/poco/dasmot/20070915dasdasmot_10/Tes/
I dont know whom to believe but as a common sense if Alonso threatened RD was with something much more important that the mails we saw... what leads me to believe that Mclaren has been cheating for a long time with prolly all the important team on the team knowing about it... including of course LH.
So to finnish one question to Ed:

¿Why Alonso is still racing for MacLaren if he is the one to blame for the ban?

The fact that Alonso is still driving for Macca makes me wonder that We (including you Ed) are really far to know what it really happened behind the courtains you prolly know this but you dont hesitate in blame the Spaniards... is RD paying you for posting this crap?

Everything here smells really bad and I think if Alonso open his mouth we prolly wont see McLaren racing next year and not precisely because Alonso fault.

To finish Ed you are a biased hooligan to say the least.

Thanks for reading.
Marco.

[JM]

Hi Ed,

Although an Alonso fan, I am disturbed by what I believe he was into. Clearly, he tried to get and use illegal information from Ferrari. No excuses here for him.

And I am impressed about how you are trying to clarify this as much as possible, telling us about how RD did not tell you about FA's excuses. To my eyes, you are definitely gaining credibility.

Based on what you say, I assume that FA said something along these lines: "Don't forget a have those emails". He might even have really used more threatening words, about blackmailing. It could be. But remember what LH said to him as well "go swivel". Those are two young men that were beyond their own control.

In that situation, and believing (as he told Mosley) that there was no such email evidence... why would you call the FIA WITHIN 30 MINUTES of that row? Wouldn't you (anyone with some common sense) wait for the drivers to calm down, and discuss it later?

If he called, he had to believe that FA's threat was real, and that is NOT what he told Mosley. He had to know the emails existed, and he had to know that info from Ferrari had been used. There is no doubt.

However, that way we might never have known about those emails, and how McL was cheating. Remember, McL cheated! Not FA, or DLR, or MC. It was the team! So I think it was good he reacted that way, and the truth came up!

And to MARK... if your logic is so clear (and it is), and a "blackmailer" should be fired... why is he still racing?

I think there was not blackmail, but a hot argument in which FA was too passionate. And even then, maybe not that much, since he could get his manager to apologize within 30 minutes!

If Ron is keeping FA at the wheel, there are things we don't know. So don't be that simplistic with your "simple fact" theory. Things are usually not that simple.

JM

[Alex]

It is interesting to see that a noticeable percentage of the rabid Spanish Fonzo fans are asking questions of their idol.

If McLaren got a $100,000,000 fine for 3 bad employees out of a thousand, why is Alonso allowed to go unpunished ?

Are the Spanish really, truly happy for a proven cheat to win a WDC after spending 3 months using Ferrari IP to set the car up ?

If Ron told Max Fernando had incriminating emails, why was Fernando not charged and expelled, it is not as if you can hide emails.

Will Fernando face criminal prosecution in Italy alongside Stepney and Coughlan ? I hope so, he deserves to.

Renault's theft of McLaren IP is going to the FIA court, when ?

You sacked/suspended the cheat Coughlan, so why not PdlR and FA ?

[YAS]

What are you saying this things about Alonso? Why don't you wait for what he has to say? He has said that everything is wrong, and I believe him. Ron Dennis is angry because of the things that had happened to him and he tries to make Alonso seem guilty of everything, but I think that Alonso has made many good things for the team and it can be easily demonstrated.

[DisasterArea]

Dear Ed:

Serious Question:
What kind of relationship do you have with Ron Dennis and/or Lewis Hamilton?

Your "propaganda" seems more to be a work out of the "McLaren-PR-Department" than from an independent journalist.

It's incredible how easy you shoot out your attacks without having filtered (thought about) what you write.

Regards and I like your blog specially because it makes me laugh (and not because its seriousity)

[Ramón]

In BWIN it's already clear:

dimanche 21 octobre 2007
Championnat du monde - paris à long terme, Monde
Championnat des pilotes 2007 - 18:00
Vainqueur antepost
Fernando Alonso (ESP/McLaren) 1.65

Lewis Hamilton (GBR/McLaren) 2.30

Kimi Raikkonen (FIN/Ferrari) 10.00

Felipe Massa (BRA/Ferrari) 30.00

[VICTOR]

Ron is, again, making mistakes with the valuable help of British press. Do you really think that FA is responsible of this affaire, just because he did receive two emails?

Max M. today has clearly explained him to pay attention to what he is doing regarding FA.

When, today, I saw RD eyes and the way he walks, it is clear for me thet he is lost and he has to resign, IMO.

What he said to the press was wrong and a "tactical mistake". Definitly he is destroying value day after day .What is the value of McLaren today? What was the value a couple of months ago? What is going to happen tomorrow. These are facts.

Meanwhile LH does not know what is going on, FA is starting to close his mouth and seems to drive...and what the hell is doing Mercedes Benz? They must not be very happy with RD.

Ron, if you love your team and still want to keep some value for your shares, you´d better go home.

All what you read, watch and listen in British media sounds racism tainted against Spain .This is my opinion.

Someone should not forget that F1 is a globalized "sport" and that Mc Laren today is more German than British. Like it or not. If RD continues like that, in some markets McLaren sponsors can see how their efforts are jeopardized in some way. They should not be very grateful to him. RD should not forget that they are paying money to his team,so they can pay him, drivers, mechanics, engineers,...and even Mike Coughlan can pay for a copy of the Ferrari 7xx pages document and send to Stepney hundreds of SMS. By the way this guy working for McLaren, was the rsponsible of designing McLaren car and we all know that in Woking " grass doesn´t grow if RD do not allow". Maybe Ed et al can ask RD about this and about why they are not going to appeal.

Vamos Fernando!

[Mauro]

Please Mr Gorman, be fair. Please, tell us that Ferrari was right and McLaren was wrong. I suspect that also the Britons need to know the truth.... but at least, on the Inedependent there's someone who trys to tell it. He also says that, maybe, it was wrong to leave all the point to the drivers...

[Janet Taylor (Wales)]

Maybe this is all a ploy by Ferrari to get at least one excellent driver on their books1 And to be fair Alonso had none of this when he was at Renault.Is Hamilton as squeaky clean as he appears?

[Manuel Guerrero Martos]

Don't blame Fernando. Be intelligent.

From ITV:
- "FIA president Max Mosley has disputed the impression given by Ron Dennis that he made the governing body aware of the new evidence that prompted it to revisit the spying case.

Speaking at Spa on Saturday, Mosley confirmed that Dennis called to tell him that Fernando Alonso had threatened to hand over damaging evidence to the FIA.

But Mosley said Dennis assured him that no emails containing confidential Ferrari information in fact existed – an assurance which later proved to be ill-founded.

“What actually happened was not at the Nurburgring but in Hungary,” Mosley told a scrum of reporters and photographers.

“On the morning of the Hungarian Grand Prix, Ron rang me and he said, 'I’ve just had Alonso in the motorhome and he says he’s got information and he’s threatening to give it to the Federation.'

“So I said, 'What did you say Ron?' He replied, 'I said "go on and hand it over".'

“I said, 'Ron, you said exactly the right thing.'

“And then Ron said, ‘But there isn’t any information.’

“So I said, 'So it’s an empty threat?'

“And he replied: ‘Yes, a completely empty threat. There’s no information, there’s nothing to come out; I can assure you that if there was something, Max, I would have told you.’”

Without making a direct accusation that Dennis lied to him, Mosley implied that he had been misled by the McLaren team principal.

“Now this was a week after looking me in the eye in the World Council and telling me there was absolutely nothing wrong and everybody had done exactly as they should do, so I believed him," he said.

“I’ve known Ron for 40 years; it’s very difficult for me, when somebody I’ve known for 40 years looks me in the eye and says, ‘Max, I’m telling the truth with complete sincerity’ – you believe him.

“It was only when I got the list from the Italian police [showing] 323 SMS phone calls going over a three-month period between Coughlan and Stepney, [that I concluded] there had to be more to this.

“You don’t get 300 messages arranging a visit to Honda. This is something serious.

“At which point I sat down and wrote the letter to the drivers, and the rest is history.” -

Life is good with Ron... Barcardi. Lier.

[Xel]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

WOW!!!

Who has spied??? McLaren.

Who has betrayed his own team? Hamilton (by disobeying team orders and making FIA to open an investigation).

What was the content of that fucking e-mails??? Nothing important!! Just the same e-mails everybody on the F1 sends and receives. Even Hamilton.

And the only thing you can read here is that FA is a million of bad things??? He has not broken any rule!!! McLaren is guilty and you insult Alonso.

Yes, MARK... you ignorant hooligan.

[Pepe]

How can anybody trust Denis words, a person who has shown he is a cheater and he is not able to control a team.

Denis, go out the F1 please. It would be the best for the fair play. You are the biggest cancer of the F1.

[INSIDER, FROM SUFFOLK]

Dear bloggers:
I ask you (for a moment) to forget your nationality. One of the things I do for living (because I do loads of different things) is to assess people’s minds, working criminal profiles for police investigations, etc, etc, etc. Of course, I will not go into this aspect of my profession in any more detail but I want you to participate in a sort of game that could change the way you view this affair. For this reason, once more, I ask you to forget that you are English or Spanish.
I have spent nearly 24 hours reading newspapers, visiting web sites and printing extracts of declarations, press reports, and so on. I have managed to collect a total of 37 A4 size pages, which I have read carefully several times. And why I have done this? Very simple: I love F1, and I love fairness.
I won’t explain here the ways the human brain works (only I will tell you that, in general, all human brains and behaviour share basic rules of functioning). Let’s rationalise my findings, but first I would like to summarise 6 key points (5 proven, 1 not proven) and some contradictions. All this will be the basis of our thinking:
Proven key points:
1. E-mails did exist
2. Alonso had a row with Ron Dennis
3. Alonso threatened Ron Dennis to show compromising information to the FIA
4. Ron Dennis phoned IMMEDIATELY Max Mosley
5. McLaren has been found guilty of wrongdoing
Not proven key point:
6. Ron Dennis was unaware of what was going on
Contradictions:
Ron Dennis: when Alonso (during the row) told him about the compromising information, he IMMEDIATELY informed the FIA with what was NEW evidence to him
Max Mosley: when Ron Dennis phoned him, he told him that there was no such compromising information, all were false allegations
Now, I am asking you to think for a second (best done by pretending you are Ron Dennis). I am going to work with two hypotheses:
7. Hypothesis 1: Ron Dennis says the truth
8. Hypothesis 2: Ron Dennis is lying
We will start by believing that Ron Dennis did not know about the e-mails. There are two options here:
9. During the row, Alonso showed the e-mails to him
10. During the row, Alonso did not show them to him
If 9: why then Ron Dennis told Max Mosley that there was not such a compromising information? Was he lying? Those who believe in the honesty of Ron Dennis must now realise that Alonso did not show the e-mails to him unless he (Ron Dennis)is lying.
If 10: Why Ron Dennis phoned IMMEDIATELY Max Mosley? The normal thing in these circumstances (and do not forget that he is the ‘boss’) is to investigate whether or not such information exists before contacting the FIA. This investigation takes some time, probably more than half an hour. However, let’s believe that he investigated it and that the investigation was quickly done. Two options here:
11. He found the evidence: Why did he then tell Max Mosley that there was not such compromising information? Once again, was he lying? Those who believe in the honesty of Ron Dennis must now realise that he did not find the evidence
12. He did not find the evidence: Why did he phone Max Mosley then? Usually you would not phone for nothing. Is he stupid enough to compromise his team? Those who believe that Ron Dennis is not stupid must know realise that he ALREADY KNEW.

The conclusion is that it is most likely that Mr Ron Dennis was fully aware of the existence of the compromising information (call it e-mails, etc). He was convinced that Alonso was going to provide the FIA with that information. He had to react quickly in an attempt to minimise what could be a very severe sanction (more than the one McLaren has actually received), and his intention from the very beginning was to appear as the man who knew nothing. And if Ron Dennis was aware, it is more than likely that Lewis Hamilton was also fully aware. Why should Lewis be kept away from this privileged information?

I believe that he phoned the FIA because he already knew of the existence of the e-mails, and was misleading Max Mosley when he (Ron Dennis) told him (Max Mosley) that Alonso was likely to phone him (Max Mosley) with no substantiated information. He clearly wanted to appear ‘innocent’ and willing to co-operate 'as always'. He really thought that Alonso was going to do it (the row must have been very, very intense).

In front of a tribunal my report would read that within the balance of probabilities, Mr Ron Dennis is not telling all the truth.

I think that the WMC should have punished the drivers with all their championship points. They only drivers that have been punished are K Raikkonen and F Massa.

I accept criticism if it is constructed in a logical way.

Yours sincerely,

Insider, from Spa

[Dave D]

That it took attempted blackmail to finally convince Ron to look deeply enough into HIS organisation to find that THEY DID IN FACT, BY DEFINITION, ..POSSESS INDUSTRIAL ESPIONAGE,...BREAK THE RULES, BEHAVE UNSPORTINGLY, UNETHICALLY, ILLEGALLY, ...CHEAT!! - then one has to wonder why during these last dramatic months did he not do so earlier.

The answer is simple - he knew what he would find if he actually dug into his own team for information instead of sprinkling the ground with the PR line he wanted his employees to keep spruiking.

Very corporate, very head in the sand, very "the company (and the money) is more important than the sport or the truth", - any of us who have worked for a large corporation recognise this as a sick, sad part of many modern, large business organisations.

I am not a Ferrari or McLaren fan (a long time supporter of Williams to set the record straight) but have enormously respected the talents of Fernando over the last few years and Lewis this year. Both will survive this in the long term -being accused of being unethically ruthless simply pushes them into the Schumi category of determined drivers.

Ron Dennis & the name McLaren have been soiled more extensively and history will be their judge.

And the great name Mercedes - a bewildered third party being dragged through the sewer with the sewer rats according to all reports - the public jury is still out - I would be saddened but not surprised if they quietly walk away from F1 at the end of their current contract.

[Augusto Baena]

Ed,

Now it seems Max says Ron is not telling the truth. Ron is continuing instigating public lynching of Alonso on the erroneous assumption that that would clean his image. This is silly. Ron is in moving sands and the more he tries to exit, the more he sinks. Every PR expert will tell you that it's better to shut up and let waters calm down.

Who of your fellow contrymen is lying? Max or Ron?

Regards

PS:Obviously Max is lying. The proof is that he is not accusing Alonso of all evil, and everybody knows Alonso is the source of all evil on Earth

[Lazy]

I thought that spanish press was sensationalist, but this blog... well, it's simply ridiculous and extremely fanatical.

Now, Fernando Alonso is guilty for all that have happened while Ron Dennis and Hamilton are only poor victims. Hahahahahahah...

Please, give apart your british feelings and stop to think a little more in all the facts...

And please, read and listen to other medias, not only british or spanish... maybe you will find some more realistic explanations to all.

Thanks for read it.

[Gunpowder Plod]

Once the WMSC appeal period is over, Maclaren will have no interest in the 2007 Constructor's Championship. It matters not if either of their cars finishes. If only one car performs well, which car will it be? Not Alonso's I think.

[Luv]

This is like a soap opera -- a drama of human greed, anger, revenge and mistakes.

What surprises me most about this drama is how skewed the British people and media are towards their brethren Ron Dennis and Lewis Hamilton. The same goes for Spanish people and media as they firmly believe in Fernando Alonso and Pedro de la Rosa.

I think that both Fernando and Lewis have made some mistakes in Team McLaren this year, and it has been tough for Ron Dennis to manage two fiercely competitive drivers. One thing led to another and i don't think anybody should be singled out to take all the blame. If you blame one, blame all. All are guilty or none are guilty.

I hope that the remaining races are fair for all and may the best driver win. And i hope that at the end of the season, this situation will get resolved to the highest satisfaction of all.

We need Fernando and we need Lewis and we need Felipe and Kimi to keep Formula One brimming with excitement and thrill..!!