Was Felipe completely in the wrong or was DC half asleep?

Some of you will have looked at the DC/Massa shunt at Turn 1 on lap 26 a few times and will no doubt have seen some of the remarks the Scotsman made about the incident afterwards.

He was clearly furious after the race and expected Massa to take the blame for the accident. "I can understand that Felipe was in a quicker car and was trying to overtake, but you've got to have your car alongside to pass, especially in a corner like Turn one, you can't just ram into them," said Coulthard.

"Felipe took a lunge from too far back and Turn one is a corner where you have to turn in early - it's not like Turn three, which is a hairpin and the door's open for a long time. I screwed up last year when I tried a speculative move on Alex(Wurz), but I took full responsibility for it and I would expect Felipe to do the same today."

More colourfully he remarked on television: "If I don't get an apology, I will kick 10 colours of s*** out of the little b*******." 

But was DC entirely blameless? He seemed not to see Felipe who had room(did he not?). And then the Scot just turned in, making his race exit inevitable. I have only seen it a couple of times but I have been wondering whether Coulthard's fury could be the reaction of a man who knows, deep down, he might have done better himself to avoid a crash which ended his race.

What do you think?

BTW, I would liked to have put up a video of the incident but the only one I have found on YouTube has been withdrawn due to our old friend a "copyright claim by Formula One Management".

Comments

[Txus G.R.]

Coulthard's fault and overreaction due to frustration.

Felipe clearly had won the position and David tries to go a little bit longer on the brakes but he close the door too late.Probaly he thought that he could intimidate Felipe and cut his line,I don't think he was half asleep,he just didn't give up.

Regards.

[Canadian]

I don't know, but I'm leaning towards it being Coulthard's fault. Massa seemed to have the inside line and DC just kept driving into him. Was he expecting Massa to move over? Much to optimistic I would think and not something you'd expect from a driver of his experience.

[Chris]

From what I saw on the TV coverage, it was Coulthard's fault. Massa had won the corner and DC should have backed off.

- from the perspective of a British McLaren fan, who likes both DC and Massa

[Juan]

It´s clearly Massa´s fault. You can´t drive a F1 car as if it were a kart.

There 2 things which has become obvious this weekend:

Ferrari is too much for Massa without TC and Alonso can not drive such a "Renault bicycle".

Driver exchange? It´d be iinteresting.

[IDR]

Felipe Massa is one of the drivers that are better not to be near him, but in this case, he is right.
David surely could kick out him 100 different colours of “s***” but just because Felipe is smaller, not because he made something to be punished.

It’s so funny to see David dictating how to do the Turns of the truck. I’m pretty sure he did not become world champion doing the same than the others.

In any case, if you see the video, Felipe has taken the line before David.

David should understand that his time to be here is finished, and relax a little bit in his last season. What the hell is he trying to demonstrate now?

Btw, you can see: is still working (up to now)

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=_ui1IoVZoZE

[nuzzaci]

I see it as a race accident. Could have been prevented by, and was cause by, both drivers. No need to blame anyone.

But how about the lack of sight due to the higher side protection around the drivers helmet? The new improved safety regulations around the cockpit that Mr Coulthard's himself campaign for after his crash with Mr Wurz might protect the driver better, but i dought it will prevent crashes.

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[Craig]

On first viewing (from onboard Massa) I thought it was his fault, but on reflection perhaps both had a part to play.

It would have been interesting to see whether Massa would have got round the corner had DC not been there - would he have gne straight on as Kimi did later in the race when trying to pass Heikki? If so, then it's his fault they crashed.

ITV should have followed DC everywhere he went to see if he came good on his word to do those things to Massa - would have been an entertaining thing to watch!

And come on FOM - everyone knows you own the copyright to the race clips but what harm is it doing allowing people to see them on YouTube?

[Jean]

1) It is clear it was David's fault (I think he didn't even see Massa coming, so now he's trying to exonerate himself by blaming on Felipe).

2) What a race!!! In the end only 7 racers out of 22 got to the finish line. Are races gonna be like this during this season??? Was it just a question of the heat in the track??? Was it just because it was the first race and things are still to be fixed??? Was it just a coincidence??? We'll see.

3) What happened to Ferrari??? Are the new cars reliable??? Was it just a question of chance??? Was it just a question of driving skills??? We'll see.

4) Fernando Alonso was lucky. Starting in 11th position and finishing 4th is not easy with a car with serious deficiencies. It's clear Alonso's skills will take the most of the car, but it should be "readjusted" ASAP if they want to be there.

5) Hamilton did it really well in qualifying session (no mistakes when it mattered). Good race, though when being the first is always easier. Good strategy on first stop to prevent a posible safety car situation, which happened in the end. Lucky on second stop (if SC would have come out a few minutes before, Kovalainen could have had many chances to win).

I can't wait for the next grand prix. Will some of our questions be answered then?

[Jamie]

It was Felipe Massa fault because in a normal situation, a driver is on the outside of the racing line coming in into the inside of the corner which David Coulthard was doing. The way Massa was doing, like many other errors he done in the Austrailian GP, he was going too fast into the corner... If DC wasn't there, Massa would've maybe ended up on the gravel!!! Simply put!
And just for the record to these delusional people... DC was ahead of Massa!

[D]

^

DC's reaction was a symptom of what caused the collision in the first place. He hit the Ferrari because he couldn't see it - and because he couldn't see it he wasn't in a position to judge whether Massa was at fault or not when he commented on it.

Seemed like a perfectly fair move by Massa to me - reminded me of Prost trying to close the door too late on Senna at Suzuka in 1989.

But then again, I've never tried to take Turn 1 at Albert Park in a Formula One car!

Ultimately, though, I'd acquit Massa of all blame, myself. (Since you ask!)

[Antonio Xixon but in UK]

I really think that it was both driver's fault. None of them were sleeping, and been fighting for a while.

DC shouldn't, for a nanosecond, have thought that Felipe wasn't going to have a go at the slightliest opportunity, and he went a little to much wide in that corner.

Felipe should have thought twice about it, because, although I understand that he was getting frustrated behind Coulthard because of all the previous events in the race, he knew that David wasn't going to let him go as easy as that, and he will try to intimidate him.

The problem was that they gambled a bit too much. I don't believe that DC didn't see him in th mirrors: if you have a Ferrari behind you knocking at your door for some time ago, I think that the las thing you do is forget to look at your mirror.

What allowed us to test is that the Ferrari looks sturdier than the Red Bull. I think it was a poor display of driving by both of them. If they wanted to finish the race earlier they should have crashed at the start, where they could have been forgiven easily...though Massa did try, didn't he? : )

[joan]

It would have been interesting to read Juan's opinion, should have this happened to FA instead of to FM.

I think this season will be interesting as we will be able to enjoy McLaren, Ferrari, BMW and Toyota with Fernandito fussing his team mates elsewhere.

I think that Renault and Briatore's style match him much better. I am going to laugh a lot this year reading how many of you cry for FA's impossible move to Ferrari.

As for Bourdais, I think he will be the great rookie this season. By the way, if Ferrari are to sign a new driver in the coming years, it will likely be him.

[Sheona Hutcheson]

Since DC is known for acknowledging and apologising for his errors and Massa is known for doing stupid things and then pretending he didn't, there isn't much doubt in my mind. I thought the expressions on the faces of the Ferrari mechanics, of which we had a quick shot, were also a give-away.

[piR]

I think that Coulthard is not fully honest. The only way that the accident happened was that DC didnt see at all Massa's move. It seems clear that if he did see him coming, diving to the apex like he did, without leaving any room for even half a ferrari, then it is a clear lack of lucidity. The odds for it to be the end of the race should have stop DC to do what he did (in the situation where Massa's move is not seen as an suicide attack, (and surely even if it was, if you can avoid what would surely be an hard collision, you might want to go wide)).
Anyway, I think that if you manage to get as side by side as Massa did, and in a way where you can still take the apex, you won (at least you deserve a little room).

I can understand that there are different threshold for judging the legitimacy of such a move.
Massa is not known for making bad overtaking moves, as DC is known to be (or wants to be regarded as) a gentleman driver.
One of them had gone wrong.
I think it is DC.
Would be interesting to know the percentage though.

[A.Sirajudeen]

DC should not have turned in to felippe's car,felippe was well in control in that situation

[Peter]

In racing its your duty to not crash int he person in front of you. You do NOT look behind, its dangerous.

Massa is obviously at fault.

[DBT]

When I saw the incident as it happened, I was bemoaning Massa's lack of class/intelligence at trying a touring car style overtake.

But seeing the replays it does look as though DC turned into him when the Ferrari was pretty much alongside.

Having never driven an F1 car I can't say how much of a view you get of cars coming down the side, but apparantly it's not very good.
Massa would certainly know how good the view is and is to blame if he's in a known blindspot.

6 of one, half a dozen of the other?

[Adam]

More DC's fault. Massa was ambitious, but he had got enough alongside and had clearly slowed enough for the corner. DC could easily have turned in a bit later and held his line firmly through the left turn 2.

[Craig]

I'd say it was just a racing incident although there are a couple of possible factors here.

Massa, who I think I'm right in remembering Martin Brundle once commented that he wouldn't trust him to drive a hire car, may have been flattered with his race driving by the electronic aids in the past. He had gone off during the race of his own accord prior to the crash.

The Red Bull uses a similar wing mirror setup that the Ferrari first used couple of seasons ago and again it was commented on that rear view visibility maybe poor when they're situated so far out on the body of the car, great for aerodynamics but a possible reason for Couthard not seeing him in time?

[Ben Smith]

It amazes me that FOM insists on taking down video on YouTube. It's tailor-made for showing short, exciting clips to a massive audience of people who might otherwise not watch F1, perhaps encouraging them to start watching the live races. You can't buy that sort of publicity, but Bernie's goons are actively killing it. Typical old-school business thinking vs. new media unfortunately.

And while I'm at it, why do we still not have an end-of-season DVD box set of all the races in time for Christmas instead of the woeful Season Review DVD?

As for the the DC/Massa incident, as much as I love DC and despise those red cars, it looked like Massa had the corner to me.

[Deebee]

6 of one and half a dozen of the other. DC should have been expecting a lunge, but Massa clearly had problems controlling the Ferrari.

[Aaron James]

Massa made the corner, on the level of Coulthard and was totally braked and able to take the corner, giving Coulthard room to also take the corner - albeit on the outside.

Coulthard on the other hand took the apex without the smallest amount of consideration for Massa. For a collision to have been avoided Massa would have had to go on the grass.

Coulthard turned in on Massa and that is what made the collision inevitable. A collision could have avoided had Coulthard made use of the space afforded him by Massa. Because he certainly didn't return the favour to Massa.

[martin]

you can see the crash at http://www.itv-f1.com/VideoHighlights.aspx if you look at it from massas view he was completely alongside DC way before either of them turned. just don't think DC saw him - although his comments were very amusing afterwards. his final comment though to Louise was quite telling. "Did you see him?" "yes of course i saw him" hmmm did you? Think not. Pity though as he was going well up until that point.

[Peter]

In my opinion, the overtaking driver needs to get his wheels at least level if not in front of the car he is overtaking. But yes, it's just a racing accident. No blame really as both drivers wanted that corner.

[D]

^

British fans can at least see the footage here:

http://www.itv-f1.com/VideoHighlights.aspx

Looks like Bernie's goons have knobbled it for foreign viewers, though.

[JACOB]

It was Massa fault. Because Massa is brasilian and DC is From Great Britain... There is a rule in F! which say this very Clear.

Rule number 1.111

It is not right to use a crane (Except if you are from Great Britain)

It is not right to drive behind a safety car changing the fast (except if you are from Great Britain)

It is not right...

[CHIUNDA]

As you mentioned Ed, DC could have done more to avoid that accident. Massa had the line and contrary to what DC thinks, Massa was actually alongside for the overtake. Poor peripheral view on the part of DC is my decided reason for the crash. As for DC's remarks, i am disappointed to realize that he is a bully.

[Paul]

Who cares whose fault it was but at least massa tried to overtake, something seriously lacking in F1.

perhaps there should be a debate about how to make rear visibility better so people might be encouraged to try more overtaking as drivers will be more aware of where cars are on the track.

[Big D]

It was clearly Massa's fault:

1. DC was in front and had the racing line
2. When they touched FM was still behind DC - it was FM's front wheel to DC's back wheel

I think that people are forgetting that it is the responsibility of the driver behind that should make the space to overtake, not the driver in front's responsibility to avoid an incident.

[mecano]

they are both to blame as both were looking at the cow.
joan, i see your lot went down to 3 seats from 8, so leave national digs aside.

[D]

^

Absolutely, Jacob.

It comes right after Rule # 1.110 which states says that Ferrari is allowed to race with an illegal flexible floor plan if it can conceal it well enough for one race and just before Rule 1.112 which states that it's permissible for Renault to use information stolen from McLaren, but if any employee of McLaren uses privately information stolen from Ferrari and fails to enter it on to McLaren's computer for general use (like Renault does) it will be "fined" $100,000,000.

(That one is a sub-clause of Rule # 1.000 which states that the FIA can extort "fines" of up to $1 billion from any team it thinks can afford to pay it, and then keep the money - irrespective of whether or not it has any legal jurisdiction to concern itself with matters properly the business of the police and the courts.)

Rule # 1.113 states that drivers are permitted to continue to compete in cars from a British team that has been excluded from the championship under Clause # 1 provided that one or more of the drivers is/are Spanish.

It was all drawn up by the legendary barristers Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone on the back of an envelope for the noble purpose of making money.

It's about a television soap opera (loved by some as "entertainment") that has to run for 18 episodes to keep the sponsors happy and which cannot be jeopardised by running a Championship with integrity.

Word is that some fool even suggested that engineering might come into it somewhere but that, of course, was dismissed as ridiculous because viewers are too thick to understand anything but drivers and the racing has to be manipulated to make them all drive wheel-to-wheel, bashing each other off the track

But that's alright, isn't it?

[Sumit]

No way, I donot think any way David blocked him. It is the same way the Fischi flown to other side of the track. Obviously Massa didnot maitain the racing distance and hit David. The similar way Nelson hit Force India car. Although the language used by David is really funny. Infact ITV on TV apologised for that for such beautiful language used by DAVID.

[Nachosm]

It's not the first time Massa made a move like that, and I'm sure it wont be the last one. With more competitive cars and drivers (drivers with more guts too), we are going to see Massa off the track more often than usual.

[Nachosm]

Totally agree, Jacob. I hate that rule, since M. Schumacher retired, every non-British driver has to fight, not only against the rest of the drivers, but against the FIA too.

[Benji]

Hmm..a tricky one eh?

DC was on the racing line but it left enough room to his right for a competitive lunge down the inside by Massa - so good for him. I think DC knew he was there but was not about to be muscled out of the way so stuck to the line. Massa only got his wheels as far as DC's side-tub before hitting the brakes. Massa clearly doesnt get ahead before the apex. Also, in going for the lunge Massa was carrying a lot of speed through a sub-optimal line on that corner (as Kimi also proved)- DC turned in and Massa's Ferrari went into bulldozer mode. Perhaps DC thought "cheeky little bugger" and expected Massa to back out of the move?

So its often a very fine line between pulling off a great aggressive move if it comes off or on the other being had-up for an error of judgment. And then having the sh*t kicked out of you by an exasperated Scotsman. I say 70% Massa to blame and 30% DC.

I think calling it as a 'racing incident' is probably the best judgement and offers both sides the chance to feel agrieved and offers the chance for 'lessons learned'.

[John Beamer]

Cleary a racing incident -- happened a million times before and will happen a million times again. DC should quit moaning and enjoy his final (hopefully) season.

-John
http://www.f1-pitlane.com

[Juan]

Joan, Joan, try to overcome the fact of lacking an own driver.

Sorry, I forgot that the only ones you could support are a tester and a journalist.

Sorry for you.

[D Fuller]

These machines are delicate. To pass in F1, you have to be alongside and sure that the person you are passing is going to be able to see you and concede the corner. You can't really do that at T1 Melbourne. If you can't pass clean then any contact is likely to cost you. It isn't saloon car racing! Fact is that Massa isn't used to overtaking for position these days and he needs to brush up.

[Ethan]

I´m not a big massa fan but it seems to me that DC should take the blame in this one as he turned in on massa when the brzilian had already passed him:It seems to me DC didn't see him.

[Steve]

I have just seen the clips of crash and would say that Coulthard was to blame. Massa was alongside him for several seconds before the turn, yet Coulthard swung across hard into him. Let's give DC the benefit of the doubt and say he was half asleep; if not it was a pretty crazy thing to do.

I agree with other comments that F1's attitude to the youtube clips is a bit stupid. These 30 second or so clips do no financial damage to F1, rather the reverse, they keep the interest in the sport at a high level.

[Alastair]

DC had the racing line, Massa was too far back to make it stick - the Red cars can no longer expect everyone to get out their way; they have to work to overtake cleanly like everyone else!

Massa looks like he's struggling now he can't just mash the accelerator to the floor. Perhaps it's time to give a decent driver a chance. Jenson in a Ferrari anyone?

[Tim]

Going back 20-odd years there were lots of incidents like this and I seem to remember that the overtaking driver had to get his car at least a bit ahead to "claim" the corner. Massa had not achieved that. In any veent, no matter whose "fault" it is - Massa perhaps learned not to "trust" DC as much!

[Anthony]

What seems to have been missed is that Coulthard made a pit stop only two laps before and was running heavy. If you look at the replay, Massa was not going faster than DC at the point of the crash - Massa got alongside DC in the braking zone, not in the corner itself, presumably by being able to brake later through having a lighter car. They then took the corner at the same pace, so there is no reason to think that Massa was going too fast to have made it round without sliding off.

DC may have had a red mist moment and decided to play hardball, and had Massa backed off to avoid a crash everybody would have said DC did the right thing. As it was, Massa had no reason to back off and didn’t - but even so both went out of the race unnecessarily and both look a bit foolish. The drivers of the fastest cars sometimes think they have a divine right to overtake and people had better just get out of the way. If the driver in front is a feisty Scot who has won thirteen grands prix, it can be a rather risky thing to do.

Massa may feel he has been hard done by, but I’ll bet he’ll be more careful with DC next time (if there is a next time).

[MTM]

Me thinks David protests too much.

It is nothing but a typical driving incident which could have been prevented by either driver. One is not more at fault than the other, only their egos are.