Drip, drip, drip...

EG writes: here is something interesting by my colleague at The Times, Kevin Eason, published in this morning's paper. (Kevin, by the way, was my predecessor as Motor Racing Correspondent). 

Bernie Ecclestone wants Max Mosley to accept defeat

Kevin Eason, The Insider
The public stance has been one of constant support in the face of blistering worldwide condemnation, but behind the closed doors of his offices in London's fashionable district of Kensington, Bernie Ecclestone is turning up the pressure to resign on Max Mosley, his old friend and the president of the FIA, Formula One's governing body.

Ecclestone, who could claim to be the creator of the modern Formula One, is increasingly alarmed at the reaction to tabloid tales of Mosley's alleged Nazi orgy with five prostitutes. The Mosley affair even cast a shadow over the funeral on Wednesday of Richard Lloyd, the motor racing entrepreneur who died in a plane crash last month. Some of the most famous names in motor racing - including Damon Hill and John Watson, the former drivers - were in the church in Brackley, Northamptonshire, and then met in the British Racing Drivers' Club (BRDC) at Silverstone, where there was one hot topic of conversation.

Overwhelming opinion at the BRDC was that Mosley must stop fighting his corner and go with some dignity. One close friend of Ecclestone said last night: “President Mosley is in danger of becoming motor racing's President Mugabe.”

The drip, drip of unrest from within the boardrooms of some of Formula One's big sponsors is also having an effect. Ecclestone did not become a billionaire building Formula One into box-office business without being astute and his soundings tell him that the time has come for Mosley to accept defeat.

Comments

[Derek Smith]

There's little in the article to justify the headline. Even the unattributed quote is quite weak.

So what was the source of the conclusion that Max has turned on his long-term business partner?

I would not be surprised though. I thought the rift started at the farcical Indy race of six cars and his muted support of Mosley's dreadful handling of the Stepney spying issue. But is there nothing concrete? A quote from the little man himself? A horse head in the bed?

I can't help thinking that the surest sign that Bernie had turned would be potential presidents throwing their hats in the ring, even if it would have to be so subtle at this stage.

[B Cave]

Let's hope he just goes, and soon. I'm sick of seeing his face now, and can't help imagining his vile fantasies when I see it. He should take his last shred of dignity and resign.

[CHIUNDA]

Ed i am looking for the fact rather than deduction from Eason's story and it is not just there! The whole piece seems to be centered on a quote from a close friend of Bernie. But we should not forget that another very close friend of Bernie doesn't think it is time to go and his name is Mosley. So which close friend should we believe - the anonymous one we don't know or the arrogant pushy one that we know usually gets his way.

This is a sad season for Formula 1 indeed - on one end, the sport is trying to come to grips with the ogre of racism for the first time while on the other, its top echelons are now associated with sexual perversity.

I am disappointed with the pronouncements of the UAE association for basing their support on the non-illegality of Mosley's perversions in the UK. Well, Mosley as citizen of the UK should rightly be legislated under the UK legal framework. However, Mosley as President of FIA is judged by the best practises of the countries over which he reigns. In most countries over which the FIA president executes command over motor sport matters, the kind of perversion that Max was involved in is illegal and morally distasteful. Since he is the president of the associations of those countries too, don't the cultural, moral and legal inclinations of the people of those countries matter too to how he conducts himself?

What would happen if for example he was from Zimbabwe where it is legal to grab property from one person just because you are in the ruling class and he is not, and say he grabbed some $300million from FIA un-procedurally on the understanding that back home he is in the ruling class and therefore legally entitled to do so? Would his many supporters still be arguing that such an act was right just because in his mother country it is so? Or that it was done in privacy and therefore he should not be exposed?

By nature many wrong things are private and that does not shield the offenders from moral and legal penalties. Rape and pedophilia are the more obvious examples that come to mind. Indeed in some countries some of these activities are not illegal e.g. pedophilia is not illegal in many asian and african countries - but that does not mean that the practitioners should be shielded from moral judgment when they are caught.

After all, laws are often provoked by reactionary moral anger at vile activities that were outside the legal radar at the time of taking place. That of Mosley falls into this last category. We hope that in the future, many countries will illegalize these perversions.

[john o'doe]

Here's a thought-Don't we need a cultural change away from F1's essentially British nay English character. The sport was born in England on disused airfields that developed into tracks such as Silverstone. The teams were mostly English privateers with mostly English drivers. Wizard prangs, shunts, bubbly in Monte Carlo.
Englishmen Bernie and Max have turned the sport into a mega-bucks global industry but the carmakers dominating the grid and controlling the purse strings are not English. Significantly Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes have all spoken out against Max.
The cultural revolution has begun.

[Dale]

Why don't the press press Ecclestone for his on the record views on the pervy Mosley situation?

I too am sick of seeing Mosley's face, the man's actions are, in my view, vile.

I suggest that if Ecclestone really wants pervy Mosley out then come out and say it - loud and clear. Rest assured if he did then the trickle would quickly become a flood and pervy Mosley would be on his way.

Anyone else noticed that there is still not a word from the FIA's two best friends - Ferrari and Renault - I wonder why????????

Maybe there is a reason why Mr Ecclestone doesn't openly call for pervy Mosley to go, maybe Mosley knows things - just maybe!!!

[Dale]

@ CHIUNDA

Superb, you have hit the nail on the head and how ANYONE can defend Mosley and his perversions is beyond me.

People should consider what you skilfully write and also remember the both children and women are also fans of and involved in motor sport - there is always a bigger picture.

The bottom line is that the FIA are a disgrace in simply not kicking him our (wrong phrase as he may enjoy that) for bring the FIA into disrepute - shame on them.

[Graham Fudger]

Poor Max... the debate continues to rage.
But I'm glad the Nazi angle is beginning to take a back seat in terms of people's comments.
Like all of us, Max was unable to choose his parents, and he shouldn't be held accountable for their politics or ideals.
His sexual tastes are a matter for his private life ( even if the transactional element of his gratuitously exploited exploits in the sex industry remains open to public debate )
So what if his fantasies have a prison theme ?
So what if they involves military and police uniforms ?
What environment did he grow up in ?
Where was his mother during his formative years ?
It's not rocket science. A three year old child could work it out ( and probably did, some sixty odd years ago )

[GFehr]

"Stories" such as this one do not appear based on rumor alone. They are floated for a purpose. Bernie doesn't need Max anymore. Max is a liability where it hurts: at the bank(s).

Lovely emails between the two of them right about now, I suspect. "Bernie, please refute." "Max, it's nothing to do with me."

Although F1 -- as a very public face of FIA activity -- may be damaged by this, really it is the FIA's problem and that distinction needs to be kept in mind. Bernie is thinking about it, for sure.

The other day I emailed both the FIA (the webmaster, the only address I could find on the FIA site) and my state AAA (American Automobile Association) with the question: How much of an AAA member's annual fee goes to the FIA?

The FIA server bounced the email address as invalid. Still waiting on an answer from the AAA (and not holding my breath).

Mosley's pastimes are a tad sophisticated for a little old American lady who thinks of the AAA as a nice man with a truck she can call to fix her flat. As long as Mosley is around, the danger of her getting wind of him has to be making folks in the AAA and FIA hierarchies very nervous.

[old danes]

Does title of this blog refers to Joan, Gary, B. Cave and Chiunda. If so, there's one drip missing.

[Felipe]

Old Danes, very funny!!! prepare for backlash.

[Jaime,California,USA]

Ed,
is Mosley part of the "dark forces" that you insinuate ("other theories...." choice reference)are wrecking Lewis Hamilton's British press god-given right to win Formula One? After all Mosley was rather "punishing" with those litte angels at Mclaren (who at first claimed that NO ONE had access to stolen information)?

[Derek Smith]

The suggestion is frequently made that Mosley committed no offence because the participants consented to the assaults. However, this might not be strictly true.

Consent in a complex legal term and on my CID course we dedicated a whole morning to it and we came away confused.

But what is clear is that the 'consent' assumed by a punter for, for instance, a sexual act might well not be full consent.

Many prostitutes at the bottom (couldn't resist) end of the market, and five prostitute for five hours at a cost of £2500 is by no means the class of the field, are run by pimps or madams and have little or no freedom of action. They are told what they will do and they have to do it.

Also, some opt into prostitution for money for drugs, their kids, or other pressing reason so their consent is forced and not freely given.

Mosley is a man of the world and presumably knows that he wasn't Gere to five Julie Roberts and one wonders if he had any doubts that the consent of all five was freely given and none participated because of coercion, either financial or via threats.

I would suspect that not all prostitutes got an even cut of the £2500 so I would suggest that at least a couple of the girls were working for little more than the legal basic wage. One has to wonder why.

As I said, consent is a difficult legal concept (by that I mean I do not fully understand it) but for Mosley's actions to be entirely legal, the consent of all five women must have been given freely, and in the full knowledge of what they were letting themselves in for.

If it wasn't then my understanding is that, regardless of any defence by Max of not knowing, what he did to them was an offence.

[Pinaster]

Hi, Gorman. As you have already notice it, spaniards dont care much aboput Max Ass. OK, I supposse we have different standarts, no problem, I just feel a little bit bored with this Max-Ass bussines, despite the fact I do understand the "anti-ass" point.
Ok, keep on writing on this matter, but...oh, boy, have you read how some bloggers get so upset and concerned with this business?
I suggesst to close this f1 blog, and open an psychologicalcabinet!

[IDR]

"I suggesst to close this f1 blog, and open an psychological cabinet!"

Better than closing this F1 blog, Ed should split it in two:

Keep the F1 blog and open a new one for that kind of issues and comments.

The title for the new one could be something as:

S&Max Mosley Flying Circus... or

The F1 Barra Brava...

or both, splitting this one in three blogs, instead of two!

And for moderating the comments may I suggest A Parker/B Cave for the first one and Joan for the second option.

Please, don't take me wrong; my selection is because I feel A Parker/B Cave quite sensitive with S&Max cause, and Joan as a "good call" for all the trolls we see here from time to time, ensuring the success of the blog.

Javiervivaespaña should be an alternative too for the second option, but I would like to keep him for the F1 blog.

His comments are so funny and he is very well mannered for becoming a F1 Barra Brava member.

[F1-Insider]

@ Derek Smith

Excellent point, a point I am sure a legal expert of the likes of Mosley would happily use against others if the boot were on the other foot.

[A Parker]

Felipe, what backlash, everyone's is entitled to their opinion even though some on here would love it if everyone had the same opinon - hatred of LH.

[Antonette]

I find the continual references between Robert Mugabe and Max Mosely a bit distasteful. How can you draw similarities between a person who is starving, abusing and killing the people of his country to a sex scandal? To me it shows a light hearted insensitivity to the struggles of Zimbabweans, and it also shows that many people don't have an understanding as to "real" problems in the world.

Rest assured if things like "Max's face make you sick", then you are one of the lucky ones.

Antonette
South Africa

[D]

^
Antonette >

Although I'm sure the flippancy with which comparison is made between Max Mosley and Robert Mugabe relates only to the tenacity that both are displaying in their reluctance to relinquish their respective presidencies in the face of increasing demand for their resignations, your point is well made, with great courtesy, and you have my support for it.