The ground appears to be being cut from beneath Mosley's feet

A quick word from the paddock. One senior team figure said he believed the momentum against Mosley is now unstoppable and referred to a "domino" affect engulfing him. Mosley himself remains defiant. More on this later.

Three statements on Mosley issued this morning

Honda
It is necessary that senior figures in sport and business maintain the highest standards of conduct in order to fulfil their duties with integrity and respect. The Honda Racing F1 Team is extremely disappointed by recent events surrounding Mr Mosley and we are concerned that the reputation of Formula One and all its participants is being damaged. We request that the FIA gives this matter careful consideration and reaches an immediate decision in the best interests of F1 and Motorsport.

Toyota
Toyota Motorsport does not approve of any behaviour which could be seen to damage Formula 1’s image, in particular any behaviour which could be understood to be racist or anti-Semitic. Senior figures within any sport or business, including motorsport, must adhere to high standards of behaviour. When all the facts are known, it will be for the FIA to decide whether Mr Mosley has met the moral obligations which come with the position of FIA President.

Joint statement from BMW and Mercedes-Benz / Gemeinsames Statement von BMW und Mercedes-Benz
The content of the publications is disgraceful. As a company, we strongly distance ourselves from it. This incident concerns Max Mosley both personally and as President of the FIA, the global umbrella organisation for motoring clubs. Its consequences therefore extend far beyond the motor sport industry. We await a response from the relevant FIA bodies.
3 April 2008

GEMEINSAMES STATEMENT VON BMW UND MERCEDES-BENZ
Die Inhalte der Veröffentlichungen sind abstoßend. Wir distanzieren uns als Unternehmen ausdrücklich davon. Der Vorgang betrifft Max Mosley in Person und als Präsident der FIA, der weltweiten Dachorganisation der Automobilclubs. Die Tragweite geht damit über den Motorsport hinaus. Wir erwarten eine Reaktion der relevanten FIA Gremien.
3. April 2008

Comments

[B Cave]

Thanks Ed, you and your media organisation seem to be the only ones with the balls to not be cowed by this. Thanks for keeping us abreast with all the news. I've written to Pitpass and PlanetF1 about their pathetic cowardly un-free attitude with regard to this matter. It's a disgrace.

[EWR]

Ground opening? It's more like a huge great black hole!
The hints aren't even subtle now Max >>>>> GO!

[Angiox]

Please, Ed. Do some speculation. Who can be Mosley's substitute?

[B Cave]

What I want to know is why is it just the Japanese and German companies who are condemning MM? It disgusts me that they don't all do it - I will be appalled until there is a universal declaration against him.

[Ian]

Mosley really does think he is untouchable, doesn't he? The more he protests the bigger a fool he makes of himself. He has even formed the opinion that Mercedes and BMW should have felt some obligation to consult him before making their own statements!? Just unbelievable.

His monumental arrogance is just not going to allow him to resign no matter what. Unless Bernie takes him aside and has a quiet word, the last we see of him might just be him being taken in the direction of a padded room...

I can not think of a more suitable epitaph.

[IDR]

The time for a voluntary Max's resignation is finished.

Now, the FIA has to dismiss him.

This is what the most of us want to see, if they want us (and mortorcar manufactures) still thinking that FIA can be an honourable institution.

On the other hand, thanks for this Ed, but should be possible to return back to sport, and talk a litle about Barhaim GP?

Hows the ambience there? (just sport...)

[john o'doe]

Let's hope this is just the beginning of a carmaker-led clearout of the corrupt management of F1 to be replaced by a new responsible and accountable stucture.

[Stevo, Madrid]

B Cave, Renault won't complain because Flav is Max's and Bernies mate. Ferrari won't complain becuase Luca is Max's and Bernies mate, the smaller teams like Red Bull, Force India and Toro Rosso won't complain becuase they are smaller teams. The Japanese and German teams are independant of the FIA/FOM old boys bully club as they represent the top 5 or 6 car makers in the world and do not feel the need to bow down (sorry Max...) to any pressure. BBC News 24 are now covering the story, so it is just a matter of time before Max is pushed by Bernie. However, be prepared for Jean Todt to take over - see above for Ferrari's reason to stay silent. so, probably not a great step forward, but at least Max has got what he deserved after the public lashing (sorry Max... ) of anyone who dared to hold a different opinion to him. The events of this week still make me laugh out loud every time I think about them or see a new story about it! Max Mosley - "the other certified half wit" jejejeje

[Go Dutch]

Further to EWR's observation above that Max now "has no leg to stand on", it's clear from Mad Max's latest retort that he has been to the Heather Mills-McCartney school of public relations.

Going, going, gone...(please)

[Pierre]

@ B Cave:

You are absolutely correct. I used to quite like Pitpass but their coverage of this affair has been pathetic. It seems they are terrified of upsetting the applecart in case they lose their "pitpass".

Pathetic, and no longer in my bookmarks.

Keep it up Ed - Mosley has to go. The Fat Lady would appear to be singing.

[Derek Smith]

The comments from Toyota, Honda, Mercedes and BMW contain no reference to nazi uniforms and concentration camp re-enactments so one would assume they are referring to the use of prostitutes, bondage, sadomasochist and the group-sex aspects. Mosely’s defence, in just denying the nazi aspects, would appear to be that such conduct is perfectly acceptable for one in his position.

The reference to the pre-war activities of BMW and Mercedes is just as irrelevant to this debacle as the absolutely horrendous activities of his father and mother.

For a chap who has a sore bottom, it is unfortunate that he has no leg to stand on.

[Hermann]

Watch out Ed. Forums are closing down the threads- users who still talk about it have been banned.
MMs arm goes far- interesting to see how a power enfolds that have not been seen that obvious before.

[Carlton Twitchell]

Well done Honda, BMW/Mercedes and Toyota ... after the intimidation meeted out to McLaren last year this was very courageous stuff indeed.. so we're waiting for Ferrari to step up and the little fry will follow no doubt.
The Hans Christian Andersen tale of 'The Emperors New Clothes' also a good read ..at least they didnt carry on the charade too long .
I wonder if we'll hear from the drivers ..or ex-world champs for that matter.Everyone keeping stum Id bet. When the manure hits the fan etc..
I sincerely hope that this saga draws a line in the sand for F1 and it moves on to happier days .. lets hope the BBC- online feed can be accessed globally and build a bigger fan base in the USA..I find it shameful that the powers that be couldnt agree $$$ for a race over there ..I guess its the cigarette -ad ban that sealed it..
So ,picture this , winning 3 up on the podium ..champagne, trophies , then off come the overalls and its T-shirts saying ".............." to a global audience of billions of people?(you fill in the gap,thats democracy at work.)Thanks Ed and The Times for standing up.

[B Cave]

Thanks Stevo, Madrid for the info. You're right - self-interest and lack of integrity dog this sport.

[D]

^
BC >

McLaren has to be seen to be the last one to comment.

To have been the first would have made Ron Dennis look like the oppressor of Mosley, instead of Mosley's greatest victim.

For Mercedes-Benz and BMW to have been the first publicly to condemn Mosley shows the world that nobody is buying Mosley's claim that there was no Nazi theme to his sick antics.

It will be interesting to see how Renault and Ferrari respond: they have much for which to be grateful to Max.

And then there's Dietrich Mateschitz, who's Austrian...

The one thing we can all be sure of is that Mosley will go to his grave perceiving himself to be the innocent victim of unappreciative people less intelligent and principled than himself. He will never be able to accept that he is a rich, bullying pervert and a vengeful abuser, for personal gratification, of institutional power entrusted to him.

(Of which, it goes without saying, I would be the last to accuse him.)

[D]

^
Hoi, everybody!

Stop calling Mosley "the other half-wit". By implication it accuses Sir Jackie Stewart of being one. Which he most certainly isn't.

[Scot]

I agree with the general aim of the comments, and also think Mosley can not be anymore the visible head of any organization.
It's also clear for me that Mosley has been caught in a trap very well organized and recorded to destroy him. I wonder who is behind all this set-up. Enemies from inside F1?.

[Stevo, Madrid]

I love the way its being reffered to as a "set-up" or a trap! I'm pretty sure that Max didn't on a whim decide to visit a torture chamber on friday afternoon for some spur of the moment spanking! This must have been going on for a while - patterns and routines have been formed and noted by interested parties. Not all prostitutes provide these kinds of "special services" (so I've heard :)... ) so the talent pool for Max's particular fetish must be small and he did look pretty comfortable with them during and after the show - enough to stay for a cup of tea (that other socially acceptable English tradition - right up there with S&M). These girls would have got to know him as Max Mosely and probably decided to sell him out - touche Max! You can't blame them for wanting to make a little on the side - you were obviously enjoying a little on the side too! The fact is that Max's enemies are legion - and some of these are vastly more powerful, rich and connected than himself. Max provided the set up himself by engaging in this deviant activity - if it was socially acceptable, we'd all be getting whipped by naked women in public instead of hiding in seedy flats. If you are going to insist on whiter than white behaviour from others, than by golly do you need to be yourself! Game, set and match Max!

[Onome O]

Nobody but Max plotted this against himself. Who called for the services of five hookers (thats a lot of hookers for one man). Max did. So where did the set up come in. Nobody point fingers to Mcclaren for being the ones behind this shit. Trust me, this is not the first time Max is doing this nor is this the only sick thing he does. That man has skeletons in his cupboard.

[Tom Morris]

Mosley's refusal to step down is the most damning revelation of this whole miserable business. His assertion that others have harmed his family by revealing his disturbing activities, rather than attributing that harm to his own actions, reveals a deeply flawed personality. This bizarre faith in his own infallibility must bring into question his capacity for rational thought.

[graham fudger]

Well done to the manufacturers for finally coming out into the open with their thoughts and feelings.

[Damon - Birmingham]

Leaving aside for a moment all other issues, the disgraceful way in which Mosley has today brought BMW and Mercedes war record into this is more than sufficient justification for him to be removed summarily (if FIA rules allow) from his post.

I doubt if many of the Board of Directors of those companies were even born at the end of the 2nd World War, and I would have thought that Max Mosley (the son of Oswald Mosley) is the last person to want the sins of the father to be visited on the son!

His reference to Mercedes and BMW's war records today has needlessly brought the sport into disrepute by tarnishing the image of two of its leading competitors - he must go and he must go now.

It is a pity because I actually think he did a lot of good for the sport in the past - but I'm afraid he's well and truly lost the plot now. (Actually he lost it around the time of the US Grand Prix of 2005 - but that's another debate).

[Giovanni Abitiate, Los Angeles, CA]

To Honda, Toyota, BMW and Mercedes: THANK YOU for having the stones to stand up to Mosley and his perverted, shameful Nazi acts.

To the other F1 manufacturers who have remained silent: The F1 community awaits you to break your silence.

If the FIA fails to force Mosley out, here is one F1 fan who will lose interest in what arguably should be the world's most honourable sport. An argument could also be made that F1's viewership is already succumbing to MotoGP for other reasons, so it is imperative that F1 take the highest roads possible, in deference to decency and the fans.

[A Parker]

I just had to comment, being a huge Lewis fan an' all, how proud I am of him actually HAVING AN OPINION about this issue. I've just read on pitpass the word for word press conference, where Jarno Trulli and Nick Heidfeld refused to be drawn on the matter, but Nico Rosberg and Lewis (prompted by one of your questions Ed, well done) said that it was important to set an example in sport. I really hate people who won't stand up to be counted, who prefer to skulk in the shadows rather than be controversial which in a case like this is NOT doing the right thing. Both Nico and Lewis are right in what they say - without actually referring directly to Mad Max's happy-five hour perverted sex orgy (glad I can say that on here - wotcha gonna do about it Maxi?).

I can just see it though - the entire majority on here and other forums are calling for the perve's blood, but as soon as Lewis says anything, he will be condemned for being a big mouth. I remember him saying once when someone put to him that he speaks about a lot of topics: "That's just the way I am, no-one can shut me up". Thank God for people like Lewis (and Nico). I wonder if Alonso the Great will say anything. I doubt it - his morals were clearly put on show last year. I will take that back if he surprises me with a decent comment.

[jordi]

1- I would love to know who set up the cameras, who is behind (not literally) of all this?

2-In my opinion, what two o more adults do in their private life is not of my business.

3-Put a camera for 2 weeks following Jackie , Bernie, Ron or Flavio and we will have headlines for the next 5 years.

3-what makes this case so disgraceful?

Was it the fact that he had sex?

That he had sex with 5 prostitutes?

That he had sex with 5 prostitutes and they were wearing prisoner outfits?

Is any of the above illegal?

There is no doubts in my mind that what has raise so much disgust about MM is not his sexual behaviour , what really disgust you was the $ 100 million fine.

[Richard]

Leaders should lead by example. It does not matter whether you are a business leader, politician or any person whose behaviour could influence the youth of the world.

Mosley must go & quickly. Voluntarily or Shamefully .... his choice.

My family motto is "Malo Mori Quam Foedari" or as more commonly known "Death before Dishonour"

[jordi]

Hamilton said his recent fine for speeding in France and his subsequent decision to attend a driver education course showed that he was trying his best to be a good role model. "I think everyone makes mistakes ".

Regarding the MM saga, Hamilton said he fully supported Honda's stance.

“I think it's key to set a good example" he said.

“We're all, especially the young people, always looking up to someone to show us the way and set a good example".

Double standards?.

PS. The leader of F1 championship attending to a driver education course??,
Wow! Ed, that's a good subject to show off your British humour.

[Bob M]

Ed, CONGRATULATIONS!
you have led the way, and you are to be commended for it. The momentum is now in place, and Mosley is finished. 24 hours ago many of us sat confused as to why no one was taking a stance. The sport's supporters will be delighted that the appropriate noises are being made by the appropriate people. There remains one outstanding worry as far as I am concerned. Max's intransigence is no real surprise. However, as allies turn agianst him (even Bernie must be feeling the pressure), there is the possibility of a nasty Max backlash, which will do him no favours, but may not do the sport any favours either. Resignation combined with silence is what we need. Unfortunately there is a chance we get neither.
Great McLaren garage story, and well done with being first with the "disinvited" story.
Massa victory on the cards this weekend....

[Pinaster]

Its so moving to see how you all feel so horrified by "MaxAss" perversions... damned sanctimonious. I never liked that fellow for many reasons, will never trust him for many reasons, but the last one will be his bad taste and low selfsteem for being humilliated by some hookers.
But for some of his country fellows, thats it! really pathetic story. Pathetic indeed.

[José - Perth]

ANGIOX

BMW Sauber site put Peter Sauber as having been already nominated to succeed MM - their April's fool day joke.

But I cannot think of anyone better qualified for the job.

Sa as an F1 fan I say Peter Sauber.

Would you agree, Ed?

[Stuart]

What goes around comes around Max..it's called Karma...I hope this is the last we hear of you...it's not nice to be the victim of a witch hunt is it?

[Anon (original)]

Oh boy. Yu have to love Formula One.

20% spy scandals 10% Sex candals. 50% politics. 15% Technology. (5% left). 3% Pitbabes, 1% Celebrities, 0.5% Fairness, 0.5% driving.

What can one say about Mad Max? Now that the companies are lined up against him, especially the German ones (note that neither McClaren and Sauber have protested yet. Not a surprise in Sauber's case, their pretty neutral on everything, but still, only the Germans complained. They must not have liked the apparent Nazi references). He has called up a WHOLE FIA MEETING in order to counter this (or sink himself further in?). Now he's just wasting our time.

[graham fudger]

Graham Fudger - spokesperson for the Campaign to Clean Up Motorsport said earlier today: "It's great to see so many good honest people standing up and having their say on the timesonline website. THIS is how true democracy works, and it is so very refreshing compared to what we've seen before."

[Anon (original)]

Hey guys, I'm gonna do something really radical.

I'm going to talk about racing.

("Gasp! Racing? I thought this blog was about sex and Nazis!")

So, Bahrain. First hings first: who will win? If Massa does not win Bahrain, think he is over. It was a race he won in '07, and so if he can't win it now, he's done with. Just a second place will make look bad. Kimi and Lewis seem in position for a win- especially Kimi, who seems enthused again.
I don't thhink we'll see a BMW win just yet-wait for the later European races for that,races like Hungary or Siverstone. Maybe tey could be radical and win Spain,where they've said they will start modifying the car.

Ferrari and Toyota testing here: well, it'll be great for them if they already know how they are going to set up their cars. But if they come in and storm through Practice 1 and McClaren catches up on the Saturday practice, there's no reason for them to be happy. They'll just have been first.

Maybe the experience of Fisichella on suchdifficult and strange track will make Force India go into Q2.
By the way, Fisi is a lo more impressive in the Force India. He seems a lot more like the leader he was supposed to be in '07, and Sutil is not far off from Heikki, so good job Fisi.

Constructor's: Ferrari NEED a one-two to change he dynamics. McClaren and Ferrari tied Malaysia (and BMW-Sauber beat them both, yay!). A one-two would show that the Scuderia have a car btter than the McClaren car, despite its unreliability. Which brings me to the point:

Who do you guys think have the better car, McClaren or Ferrari? (I think you should get one of those cool polls for this Mr. Gorman-arn't I pesky with polls- and do it before it gets obvious which car is better). I think its fair to say hat like last year, Ferrari have better speed and McClaren have better reliability. Last year, McClaren ad a better car because of reliability (even though Ferrari won most races, 9-8). So, which is better?

Press conference fun. Mr. Gorman went in with a question about racing:

Q. (Ed Gorman - The Times) Lewis, you said you didn't like deep water. Are you frightened of being eaten by a shark?

LH: I definitely don't like great white sharks, that's for sure. I guess it's the unknown, not really knowing what's below you. I do like scuba diving, so being under the water is a completely different thing from floating on the top. You see all those Discovery channels when the bloody shark jumps up, eats whatever's floating on the top. I just don't fancy being in that position.

Ian Parkes came i with a killer one- two at Lewis:

Q. (Ian Parkes - The Press Association) Lewis, it came to light this week regarding your fine for speeding in France, I think I'm right in saying that you agreed to take in a driver education course. Is that correct?

LH: Yeah, I said that I'm happy to do whatever I need to do to help and to show to them that I support the rules. They haven't asked for me, requested for me to go back and do any specific course but I said that I've got massive support.

(and then Ian just shoots him down. No sarcasm here, whatsoever).

Q. (Ian Parkes - The Press Association) But along those lines, that's part of a young person like yourself setting a good example.

(Zinger!)

LH: Absolutely, I think everyone makes mistakes. I'm young and this is part of my life that for me, in my position, and being a potential role model for lots of young kids, setting a good example is one of our top priorities, so that's something I'm going to continue to do.

Well, I hope we can stop talking about orgies and whipping frenzies and go back to racing. And please, I'm really interested to know (and don't hesitate to speculate) which car you guys think is best. Does anybody wanna be radical and say the BMW-Sauber is the best? I personally think the Ferrari is the best, closely followed by the McClaren, so closely followed by the BMW. But I think everyone will agree that the BMW is the car that most improved over the winter, especially seeing their first results in the winter tests.

[Robert Rath]

Mosley cut the ground from under himself and compounded by his latest disgraceful reference to WW2 and German carmakers!
How about this original idea: FOLLOW THE MONEY! F1 is after all high ticket sport, highly commercial. Berni will wake up sometime about Sunday when the NOTW drops the other shoe!
The larger manufacturers have already expressed their collective disgust. Mosley has admitted he was the star of that lurid video and regardless of any invasion of privacy legal action (and I hope does take action so he can totally destroy any slight good reputation and be shunned from every place he cares about--accept the S&M Clubs)Money Talk and BS Walks! F1 is seriously one the largest Commercial Sports in the World, none of the larger manufacturers can afford to offend stockholders and customers by associating with an organization headed by such a Pervert!
By Monday the press will be writing a heading "Mosley Resigns for Family reasons and for the sake of the sport"! Translation: The Big Money in the sport kicked his S&M arse out!
One could hope that it would be to seek help at a Mental Health Facility !

[Pinaster]

Porker, you really bore me do death with your monothematic and psychotic obsession. "he will be condemned for being a big mouth." Dont worry, boy, his big mouth is not as half big as yours.

[Gary Murphy]

Jordi!!!!!!!!

wtf?

How has this anti Lewis obsession suddenly made you defend Mosely?

How pathetic????

[B Cave]

To Jordi

Please read this letter that was sent to the Telegraph columnist, Kevin Garside, another defender of the indefensible like you:

"Garside,

You really are coming across as being as dumb as a box of rocks.

Despite being universally and comprehensively roasted by your readers the last two times you've tried to tackle this subject, you STILL can’t seem to grasp the reality that it is not the fact that Mosley spent (at least) one afternoon in a room with five prostitutes - it’s absolutely what he was doing with them that people find so repulsive. It wasn’t a raunchy roll in the sack he was having with them - he was indulging in practices that most people find disgusting (with or without a swastika in sight).

The whole issue is ENTIRELY about Mosley’s integrity. His moral integrity. The President of the FIA is (as Mosley has, in the past, been only too keen to tell everybody) the person charged with the job of passing judgement on the propriety with which other people conduct themselves in the world of motor racing. Whether or not they “bring it into disrepute” as he has been so fond of putting it.

Well, he might have provoked a few giggles if he’d been captured on film romping round a bedroom with five lissom ladies armed with pillows and water pistols - most healthy people get up to a few lusty pranks behind closed doors - but he loses all respect when they’re wearing concentration camp clothing, “inspecting him for lice” and then taking and giving him whippings until he bleeds, with his bare arse bent over a table.

Even Mosley himself can see that, even if you can't.

As for the manner in which he was caught, that’s simple, too - to catch a rat, you use a rat trap. He was hardly likely to do it in public.

If you really cannot grasp that you should just stick to writing about Formula One racing cars being driven round circuits and leave coverage of issues about how human beings conduct themselves outside of racing cars to a grown-up adult on the staff of your newspaper.

And frankly, the last thing that Formula One needs at this moment of some crisis is for Bernie Ecclestone to get an even greater hold on the tiller of it with his greedily acquisitive hands, when he’s not busy cluttering up the FIA's grid with “celebrities” entirely irrelevant to the still dangerous proceedings of motor racing."

I'm sure you still "won't get it", but for once, I agree with the majority of the people on this site in condemning this peculiar pervert and calling for his resignation. It's interesting how the Alonso fans are sticking up for this man - mmmm, interesting!

[jordi]

B CAVE:
Nice letter, I hope you had a good time describing all the dirty details of this matter, still you have not manage to prove that MM has done anything illegal.

I do not like MM at all. But I'm not driven by revenge as you are. It's simple, what two or more consenting adults do in their private life is not of your business.

And please do not even try to talk about morals. If there was any morals in F1 Ron Dennis would be racing pigeons after been caught spying Ferrari.

Regards

[B Cave]

Jordi

I didn't think you'd get it.

[Tom Ware]

Jordi,

4 comes after 3, not 3 again. It's basic maths.

[Pierre]

Jordi,

Since you bought up the "Spying" affair, I think you've missed a very significant point...

McLaren did not decide at a team meeting "let's go and see if we can get hold of some Ferrari docs that we shouldn't have".

Instead, a rat at your beloved Ferrari gave the documents to McLaren.

McLaren are, in my opinion, guilty of being stupid and certain people within the organisation used, or tried to use, the information.

This is very different to Spying, which implies intent. McLaren did not go out of their way to acquire this info, it was given to them!

I still cannot understand why Ferrari were not punished for starting the whole affair. Surely the team broke a sporting code by sending a key competitor key documents in the hope of them finding some advantage?

Personally, I think Ferrari's role in the affair makes them just as guilty. Perhaps even, since Stepney denies sending it, it was planted by Ferrari as they knew McLaren had a more competitive car, and they thought this would be the best way to level the playing field?

Obviously if Ferrari International Assistance hadn't got involved (directed by S&M Orgy Fan Mosley) it wouldn't have been blown out of all proportion and instead would have been treated in the same way as the countless other virtually identical "spying" episodes that people accept are just part of the sport (ie have been going on for decades...)

On this subject, I can't wait for Stepney's book to come out on this...

[jamie]

I thought prostitution was still illegal in the UK ?? So if Max paid for sex then surely that is criminal offence ?? I know that it was mostly S&M but it has also been suggested that intercourse took place with at least one of the hookers. So there you are, he has done something illegal!! Cue police investigation please. Thank you !!

[jordi]

Jamie, sorry, but I'm afraid prostitution is not illegal in UK.

Currently in the UK, prostitution is not illegal however the laws serve to make providing sex in exchange for money difficult and dangerous. Soliciting (advertising sexual services), streetwalking and brothels (where more than one woman sells sex in an apartment) are illegal. Kerb crawling is illegal in most of the UK but different laws apply in Scotland. These laws are currently under review and a draft bill is in the process of consultation. In all of the UK, paying for sex with a woman is not illegal. These laws firmly place the criminality of prostitution on the women.

So, if anyone was doing some sort of illegal activity were the woman, not MM. You may or may not agree with the law, but that's the one you got.

Recent articles in the Times and the BBC have suggested that the use of prostitutes in the UK has doubled over the last ten years. At the same time, the numbers of women being trafficked from Eastern Europe, Africa and the Far East and being held in sexual slavery in the UK has dramatically increased.

Regards

[jordi]

Pierre said:

-Personally, I think Ferrari's role in the affair makes them just as guilty. Perhaps even, since Stepney denies sending it, it was planted by Ferrari as they knew McLaren had a more competitive car, and they thought this would be the best way to level the playing field?-

Now Pierre, "..they knew McLaren had a more competitive car..." that makes a lot of sense, keeping in mind that Mclaren didn't win a championship in... How many years? 10 years.

Anyway, Regarding Stepney affair is up to the court to decide if he is guilty or not. But one thing is for sure, the guy has been involved in a few doggy affairs:

Tuesday, July 3rd 2007, 08:52 GMT

Nigel Stepney, the engineer at the centre of a legal enquiry over possible sabotage at Ferrari, has now been dismissed by the Maranello team.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60448

MARCH 9, 2008
Stepney admits that "a former McLaren engineer and friend of 20 years" - Mike Coughlan - had obtained very limited information as a result of what he described as his carelessness. But he added that it was not the 780-page dossier the FIA saw, which he says he has just been shown for the first time by the Italian police. Stepney is under investigation in Italy for suspected industrial espionage.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20109.html

[elba]

To A Parker:
Even the MM affair is a good excuse to attack Alonso!
Of course everydody has an opinion, but the fact of telling it doesnt make you better.But ok, Alonso said nothing so he is a nazi.We all agree.
About morals and stuff, try to imagine for a while that Hamilton collaborates with traffic advs campaings while Alonso gets a fine for speeding and gives his opinion about a third person who shoud give example and then says he is going to be good because he's a potential role model...
Can't, can you?
I just thinking.. a profesional driver banned for dangerous driving!Embarrasing, isn't it?
Yeah let's talk about morals!

[D]

^
B Cave >

In my own humble way, I have to say that the post you found on Garside's blog at The Telegraph reflects my views entirely. (Well, almost entirely...)

That fellow who posted it writes a lot better than Garside does, too.

(Although I'm not sure about the wisdom of using the word "even" twice in the same sentence. Perhaps he was tired when he wrote it.)

Are you sure you copied the penultimate paragraph correctly?

[jamie]

Jordi

Nice "copy/paste" from the "prostitution reform" page that I ended up on following your reply post. Thanks for your correction and I do find it quite appalling that you are indeed quite correct. Not that it really has anything to do with F1 but mayby Ed could get some of his newspaper colleagues to giving this ridiculous state of affairs more of a public airing and thus preventing "sad acts" like Mosely from being tempted,knowing that he has impunity from the law. Sorry for going so far off track Ed but this UK law really does stink!!

[Andy G]

JORDI

You got everything upside down and back to front as usual.

Ferrari knew the McCar was quicker because they have eyes and stopwatches - looking backwards over ten years is what you might do but that's because you are a semi-deranged bile-poster.

Secondly, you list the Stepney events in 2007.

DOH! The big point is that Stepney got into a fight with Todt because they passed him by and promoted Italians once Ross was out. Hence the Vendetta etc. Ferrari didn't control their employee just as McLaren didn't.

[Jordi]

JAMIE:

Next time, if you do the research yourself before posting and not after, you won't look so silly.

Regards

[Jordi]

ANDY DOH! G.
yes, yes, yes... 10 years without wining a championship, breaking down constanly and everybody knew McLaren had a more competitive car.
Give me a break!

DHO!

[keith]

It has suddenly come clear to me now why Michael Schumacher became a seven times world champion!

[Andy G]

Jordi

How dumb is your point? YOU and I know (as a point of historical fact) the 07 Mac was quicker than the Fez.

The teams knew at the start of the season as a result of analyzing eachother's long runs (as usual).

But please: don't let your massive lack of knowledge, understanding and intuition get in the way of your provocative political nonsense.

[Anon (original)]

" 07 Mac was quicker than the Fez.
"

Correction. '07 Mac was more reliable, not quicker. Ferrari had the most fastest laps last year and the most wins.

[Andy G]

Neither of which is a particularly useful proxy for how fast car is because of race survivor bias.

And not useful for figuring out Ferrari disposition towards the 07 Mac after winter testing in early 07.

[Jamie]

Jordi:

I dont really think a person who tries to count to four and ends up with two threes is in a position to call anyone silly!!

Kindest regards

[D]

^
My own 2007 Mac sits next to a fez that was one of Tommy Cooper's.

[Anon (original)]

"race survivor bias"- Andy G

If you're talkng to me, I'll remind you that Ferrari had the least race survivors and the owrst reliability, so your argument proves my point, I do believe. Regards