Glory for Felipe again in Turkey; top drive from Lewis

Felipe pulls off three wins in a row at Istanbul Park in a race for the cognoscenti which saw Lewis manage to make a three-stop strategy work and finish in second place, one better than where he started. Kimi was third just behind Lewis with the two BMWs led by Robert Kubica fourth and fifth.

The race was low on incident with 17 finishers, the most dramatic being a "climb-over" coming together featuring Fisi and Kazuki Nakajima just after the start. Another casualty at the start was Heikki who, after a poor get-away from second on the grid, tapped Kimi's Ferrari going through turn 2 and picked up a puncture which forced him to pit. This put him to the back of the field. After some entertaining battles, especially through turns 12, 13 and 14, the Finn finished 12th.

A great drive from Felipe who was understandably delighted at the finish with his second win of the year, raising three fingers to the sky in celebration. Lewis too had an excellent day. He pulled off a nice pass on Felipe going into turn 12 and managed to build a gap at the front of the field in the middle of the race which was enough to keep him ahead of Kimi and Robert at the end. In his short final stint in the soft tyre he looked reasonably comfortable ahead of Kimi and held onto second place by half a second.

Kimi incidentally drove the race's fastest lap despite going through the whole Grand Prix with a broken front wing as result of his tangle with Heikki.

The result leaves Kimi still in the lead in the championship with 35 points but with his advantage over Lewis(28pts) cut from nine points to seven. Felipe is now level-pegging with Lewis in joint second, with Robert third on 24 points.

Comments

[CHIUNDA]

I must say great work McLaren and fantastic drive from Lewis. Just the fact that there were so many tense faces on the Ferrari pit wall tells me all i need to know. Great race.

[javiervivaespania]

Race report:
1) Massa won. But he is still behind Raikkonen. Therefore, not such a good weekend for him, as Hamilton has got the same number of points as him. We will see an interesting battle in the next three races, I would say, that is why Massa was showing his three fingers to the camera, not only because of his third victory. He did it also because now he is third in the championship. Three reasons to show his fingers.

2) Hamilton. He did three stops, which definitively shows his weakness with the tyres. Kimi could have caught him if he had started pushing earlier, but he did not do it for team strategic reasons, so Massa could go ahead and win. Hamilton was using Alonso's telemetry data from last year -McLaren keep these data like gold- and that has helped him to get into the podium.

3) Kimi. They should decide in Ferrari who is going to win this year. If Kimi respects Massa's strategy Hamilton could try to take an advantage. We saw that this is a mistake last year.

4) Kubica. He should polish his style if he wants to challenge the McLarens.

5) Heidfeld. You realise he is there when the race was finish. BMW car is good enough to make him get points, basically because he is German.

6) Magic Alonso. What can I see? He is enjoying himself and having fun, and adding points... We will see what happens if Renault manages to improve the car. Our Champion won his particular race, the one which is not completely determined by the car you drive. He proved again he is reliable and very fast. He is still the only two-time champion in the grid and he deserves more tv attention. That is missing. But I see him happy, after the hell of last season at McLaren, and that is the most important thing. Being happy and making others happy, like he is making me. Smile, Magic, that is the most important thing! Victories will come again! The problem is that we were bad used to see him winning almost always and that is disppointing many supporters. But we must be strong and keep the faith in our Champion.

[IDR]

Upstairs

It seems to me that some McLaren Engineers visit this blog regurlarly. Congratulations to McLaren in this race they have “stolen the wallet” to Ferrari.

Fantastic job of Lewis that has clearly covered the expectations for that difficult strategy.

And congratulations to Felipe that has been able to keep himself calm knowing the 3 pit stop strategy.

Kovalainen has been very unlucky. I’m pretty sure, keeping in mind the fuel load, he could be on the podium without many problems. Anyhow, he gave us some of the most amazing overtakes of this season during the race.

BMW is a step below and no signs of improvement. Boring quite boring team.

Downstairs

We had just a minute of glory seeing Fernando on fourth position after his fantastic start. But the clear superiority of Ferrari, return us back to the reality quite fast.

Finally, what the hell has happened to Fisichella, behaving like a rookie trying to impress somebody in his first race?

[adam]

Ed. Hamilton started 3rd not 2nd, he overtook Heikki at the start.

Moderator: Well spotted Adam...correction on the way

[LAK]

Congratulations to Lewis! Great result! He was 3rd in Spain, 2nd in Turkey, let's hope we see him 1st in Monaco!

[colin grayson]

I must be getting old javier ; for a while I really thought that you believed the things you posted ..now I know you are either

having a joke or
have never watched an F1 race

so hamilton was using alonso's settings from last year was he ? you hadn't noticed they have removed traction control and the cars are running lower ?

as john mcEnroe always says , you cannot be serious

[Nik]

javier: complete nonsense in almost every 'point' you make

how can Massa winning not be a good weekend for him? These drivers do their best each weekend, and taking pole and winning is a perfect weekend. He has performed very well for 3 races in a row now, after a shaky start. Also, Massa is in 2nd place in the drivers champ, because he has more wins than Hamilton

Also to say that Kimmi didn't push harder to let Massa win shows you have absolutely zero understanding of what is going on in the race. These guys were racing each other, Kimmi had a poor second stint (probably because of his tyres) and was running a lot slower. Lewis simply out-raced him

The ferrari's should race each other just like everybody else. Trying to fix the drivers champ now would not only be illegal, but probably result in neither of them winning it

Kubica is pushing that BMW very well, probably as much as anybody could get out of it. If Kubica wants to challenge the front, he needs a car that is just a little bit quicker and a little more balanced.

Heidfeld has been very consistant all year, and again his BMW finishes where it was because he is so good in a race, not because he is German (ridiculous)

Renault have moved towards the front in the midfield pack, but Piquet has been dissapointing all year. Red Bull have been having a great year so far (bar Coulthards performance) and I believe that they are more likely to finish 4th this year (with Webber in 7th) once Coulthard finds form and consistancy akin to what Webber is experiencing. I don't think Alonso and Piquet can out-do that pair over the course of the season

[Dean Rodrigues]

I don't like to blow my own prophetic trumpet, but here's an extract from a comment I posted on "The boy Felipe done good" - 10 May 2008 at 19:10:38:

"...This suggests to me that Lewis could well produce a surprise result tomorrow as he's gonna be quick on those harder prime tyres over longer stints, and then can do a splash-and-dash on the option at the end."

Unfortunately (or fortunately from my point of view), Adrian Sutil did not storm through from last place, and failed to pass Felipe on the last corner, meaning that I am not jumping of Magdalen Bridge and get to keep the bones in my leg in one piece. With United winning the Premiership, it's happy days all round.

[David Watkins]

More non-sensnical drivel from Javier I see.

Very exciting drive by Lewis and to stay ahead of the world champion was a great effort. I feel desperately sorry for Heikki. He's a quality driver and a lovely kid. I'm very excited for the future at McLaren with these two young'uns at the wheel.

Well done to Felipe too. I would love to see him contend for the title and keep his seat with the team.

[Jordi]

Ok, good drive Felipe and Hamilton.

Now Its time to talk about Fuel loads, strategy and team leaders.

Heikki didn't have a poor start, he had 3 tonnes more fuel than anyone else in the first 5 rows, and obviously he had no chance to stop Hamilton overtaking him at the start.

Was McLaren team strategy design in favour of one driver only?

[Cap]

Heikki is having to adjust to a new car / team this season and, to this humble observer, is faster than Lewis. He out-qualified his team-mate with a heavier fuel load (again). The meaning is obvious, but some are still in denial. So what does that say about Fernando and his problems last year?

Kimi's season is already looking like a measured march on the championship. He has a troubled weekend and is unfortunate to come 3rd. He has always been quick at Monaco, even in an uncompetitive McLaren.

Lewis: According to Autosport, Lewis's tyre problems (which necessitated his three-stop strategy) are specific to his style through turn 8:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67359
Someone remarked before the race that certain drivers would have problems through there. They can't get through fast enough without damaging their tyres - a balancing act the likes of Alain Prost mastered in their time. Lewis has a problem with Heikki - is the Finn's pace unnerving him? As Kimi remarked, Lewis is putting too much pressure on himself.

In just his second season, he should be quietly gaining experience to prepare for a possibly great career. Instead, last season's (almost) rookie world championship might prove to be a millstone around his neck, rather than character building.

Felipe: Great drive again. But I don't see him being consistent enough, nor having the calmness under pressure, to beat Kimi.

Robert Kubica: Second fastest time, behind Kimi, in low-fuel Q2 on Saturday. He's the real deal, and better than the hyped drivers in the paddock.

I would be surprised if Kimi lost the championship.

[Weasel]

Ah yes - "The Race Report" as seen through the eyes of Javiervivaalonso. Sounds mighty important and impressive doesn't it?

Yet again he watches a different "race" to everybody else. I wonder where the race he watched was held?

[javiervivaespania]

Well, you spin doctors think you know it all. There is not enough space here for telling you what telemetry data are. You can still use it even if the car is different, if the telemetry data are good enough. It tells you how to drive through a curve, what the best trajectory is, what Gs you have to experience, etc. So, please do not try to be clever. My analysis is as legitimate as yours. Only that you are biased to think that everything that Hamilton does -a driver I respect but still judge- is great.

Felipe might have had a good weekend but not for an ambitious champion's standard. He did his best, and he must be proud, but he wants to be leading the table one day, and he is surely not happy that Hamilton has the same points as he has.

And Kimi was going much much faster than Hamilton in the last laps.

How can anyone think that Hamilton did a great drive when he was second and not first only because he knew he could not keep his tyres in good shape and had to go for three stops (yes, three, as Felipe was pointing out) and lose almost every chance to win the race. If he could have preserved his tyres he could have won the race, entering the pit lane only twice. But he gave the attempt up, and took the loser's strategy: three stops. I am not insulting or attacking Hamilton, who is like I said an amazing driver in many other respects. I am just doing a serious -yes, serious- analysis of the three stops choice.

[Juan]

JOrdi and Javiervivaspania. Stop posting nonsense. I am a fervient Alonso supporter but its quite ridicolous what you have posted right now.

Hamilton is getting really better and better this season. It seems Mclaren is finding its pace, time by time.

Alonso is just swimming in big shit.

I think everyone here should assume that none of both Ferrari drivers are really Ferrari ones. Hamilton overtaking of Massa and Raikkonen not pushing harder at the end against Hamilton, its not really Ferrari quality.

Its just a championship between mediocre drivers at the top teams in which Hamilton (if he starts getting smarter) can catch up the championship. I hope he does, so next year Ferrari has no other possibility than signing Alonso.

[INSIDER WHO CANNOT BE NAMED]

Jordi, everybody knows that McLaren gives EQUAL treatment to all their drivers. Hamilton is their driver number one - as he was last year (that's EQUAL treatment for Lewis in the last two years!).

Today - Kova's role was to allow Hamilton to take 2nd place from the start. Thereafter he was expected to slow down Raikonnen (shame his left rear tyre punctured). Hamilton was racing Raikonnen, not Massa.

I am not surprised to see that qualifying (and race) strategy tends to favour Hamilton, as it happened last year. What would you expect? - he has been nurtured by Ron Dennis, so there is a paternalistic scent in the garage. However, I can not see Hamilton conquering the WDC this year.

Kovalainen is playing well his role as team's second driver - nothing wrong with that! Is it? He accepted from the very begining his role - and was happy to do so (it comes attached to a good salary and the promise that next year he'll be free to fight agains Lewis (but only if Lewis wins this year).

No doubt in my mind, this is Raikonnen's year...AGAIN

And I will be celebrating!!

Long Live Ferrari

[B Cave]

The comments by javiervivaespania show his adulation of Alonso, and his hatred of Lewis, have blinded and twisted his mind. He sounds a bit doolally actually. I'm glad to see the recognition of Lewis' amazing drive today by other posters.

It's funny, when Lewis does badly, some Alonso fans say it's because McLaren are missing his set up skills, and yet when he does well, it's because they have kept Alonso's set up data. Which is it? This proves that this set up malarky is bull. McLaren look right there at the top with two excellent young drivers (especially Lewis - got to say that as a huge fan but kudos to Heikki).

[Jordi]

Nonsense? Heikki out-qualified his team-mate and started the race with at least 7 laps more worth of Fuel, those are facts.

[Tim]

The three stop strategy was a surprising move by McLaren and Hamilton and the team did well to pull it off, albeit aided by a few bits of good fortune.

However, it does add to a slightly worrying picture. It was obvious last year that Lewis was using his tyres harder than most other drivers - and that was with traction control. The current McLaren is also relatively hard on its tyres - hence it warms them up well in cold conditions, as opposed to the Ferrari.

Add this together and tyre wear could well be a significant issue for McLaren as the year unfolds. Three stops was not an optimum strategy for Turkey, but McLaren was forced to adopt it for Hamilton and it was made to work. But this was helped enormously by a poor qualifying performance by Kimi Raikkonen, Lewis starting from the clean side of the grid and being able to pass Felipe Massa when he needed to. Throw in a poor start on the dirty side of the grid (as basically did for Heikki Kovalainen) and a circuit with fewer passing opportunities and Hamilton could have experienced a pretty dismal race.

A decent result today, yes, but also indications of possible problems for the future.

[Mannersaye]

So mclaren had no telemetry at all before alonso joined the team last year? They had been to turkey twice before, javierespana, and won there in 2005. Utter nonsense.

[David Watkins]

The reason Kimi was catching Lewis is because it was hard tyre v soft tyre. Kimi never seriously threatened to get past.

You may think you are being serious Javier but that shows how your mind is warped in favour of Alonso (and therefore against Hamilton)

Lewis' tactics were to run as much of the race as possible on hard tyres and it worked a treat. There was no need to risk a tyre blow up chasing an extra two points when he could finish ahead of Kimi and cut the gap. This is a marathon not a sprint. We can never know how he'd have done with two stops but I'd hazard a guess that Kimi would have taken second place from him.

And why on earth should FA deserve more TV attention? In today's race, once Kimi passed him, he was toddling around on his own with no-one near him! That may send you into raptures but it may been a little dull for the rest of us.

Piquet's performance this season is certainly showing how well Lewis did last year.

Hopefully some points for Heikki in Monaco.

[Anon]

Wow. Pretty vicious posting after a race which should mae everybody happy.

Massa- nice. He managed to be overtaken and keep his cool until he surfaced back as leader. Very good. Second now in the championship (sry Javier, but he wins over Lewis on race countdown, so 2nd).

Lewis- asolid drive. He managed well. Too well if you ask me, compared to his teammate. Mabe he wold have done better with two stops, but becauseof the tires... But still, a solid job.

Kimi- first sign of weakness minus Australia. But still, solid.

Heikki- sad. He has half the points of Lewis now. When you ook at their elative scores, it makes you wanna go "First driver, second driver." Its probably just a coiincidence for now.

Ferrari- Operation Red Storm continues. The wind will change soon, however.

BMW- few people realized this, but BMW outscored McLaren in this race. In the five previous races, BMW have outscored McLaren 3 times. And Monaco should be promising for them.

McLaren- inth past3 races, only one of their drivers has been getting in the points! Incredible! At his point last year, they were always in the points, both of them! They really need more luck or something.

Renault- best of the rest. Alonso predicted he wuld finish seventh. He qualied so, and when one of he top sx flailed he moved up to sixth. His teammate hasn't been able to help him win the constructors fight between Williams, Red Bull, TOyota but I'm sure Alonso can take them all single-handedly, right Javier? =)

About Javier's comments about the telemetry- can't reallyt prove that Alonso's sats haven't helped them, can't prove the opposite either. I don't think his helpe here, but I'm sure they'll help some way or another in Monaco, Monza, or Hungary.

Coulthard- still no points. Last year he had four at this time. Webber has already made up all his points of last year.

Webber-supe-strong. This guy deserves a podium.

Monaco? Monac is a track which allows the driver to have mre influence on his oerformance thanthe car, relatively. Hopefully, guys like Alonso, Fisi, and Barri can post good results. I would besuper happy to see an ALonso podium. BMW shoul be able to challenge the McLaren pace better than Ferrari, as I've heard this is a slow race. And who knows, it could be a redstorm all over again.

[Anon]

"And why on earth should FA deserve more TV attention? In today's race, once Kimi passed him, he was toddling around on his own with no-one near him! That may send you into raptures but it may been a little dull for the rest of us.

"

I forgot to mention, didn't you just love Alonso's moe on Kimi? 'Twas quite col. I neve thought Kimi would let him by, as he was on the side of the road where Alonso took him by surprise.

[Gary M]

@ Jordi, Javier.

* Heikki qualified on the soft tires which are much better and faster for qualifying, Lewis opted for the hard compound tires for the advantage they gave him in the race. The tires would cancel out the weight advantage from the extra fuel.

* So McLaren were using Alonso's data from last year were they? This makes sense I guess. After all Alonso managed to finish 4th here last year while his rookie teammate finished 2nd. mmm, 4th - 2nd, which data would be better?

In all his races at this circuit Alonso has never finished better than 3rd. Lewis has raced on this track 3 times now, in all 3 races he has finished 2nd. His first race in GP2 where he came from 16th place.

* Alonso was pretty crap today you have to admit, I never saw any of this passion that you guys constantly talk about. He looked to me like he was struggling the whole race. Maybe he needs some of Hamilton's set-up data?

* Great race by Lewis, he was racing Kimi all the time and did his job perfectly. He can win the next two races now and be leading the championship after Canada.

[Verbal]

Massa's stats - 7 F1 wins to his name, Has never won from anywhere else other than pole.

Kimi drove whole race on a damaged front wing. Only towards the end was he comfotable enough to risk pushing it.

Kovi - little niggling things pointing at his strategy always being weaker than his team-mates. Mclaren really have to be careful

[Jaime,California]

Poor Kovalainen. He is playing stooge to Ron Dennis' strategy of giving Hamilton a WDC at all cost. At least at Ferrari they are open about their intentions. They are letting Massa and Hamilton race each other at the beginning but they won't hesitate one second in giving Raikonnen preference when push comes to shove. Massa will need 20 points of lead at the last race for Ferrari to let him win the WDC over Raikonnen. It is insulting that these British bloggers are so hypocritical about equality at McLaren. Take your mask off and admit that Hamilton is favored by the team. There is no shame and you'll feel better. There was equality last year between Fernando and Lewis all the way up to Monaco. After that Ron Dennis chose Hamilton because he is a superb driver and showed he was on an equal to Raikonnen and Alonso. That's why Alonso left McLaren. The poor guy thought he was gonna be number one in a British team with a sensational British driver. No chance in hell. You have to be blind or British to claim there is equality at McLaren. George Orwell once remarked that the greatest virtue of the British is hypocrisy. Bring it on.

[Dean Rodrigues]

"ANON" has got a point - posting of this nature has been remarkably scarce so far this season... I guess Javier's deluded ranting finally got the better of people.

The more I think about it, the more concerning the McLaren's ability to eat up tyres becomes. There are several more tyre-degradation-intensive circuits left on the calendar and if the Woking lot want to register wins at such venues, the last thing they need is to be compromised into sub-optimal strategies. Obviously Lewis has done a brilliant job today, but he could certainly have snagged a win if his tyres held up better.

[Adele]

Massa - He did well the whole weekend, good race from him. Massa for me is actually the star of the race, especially for winning in Turkey for the 3rd time. What more can you say?

Lewis - One of the most strangest things about Hamilton's performance was his qualifying. Yesterday everyone though Lewis did a magnificent lap. As it turns out his qualifying was actually the weakest of the top 5, he was obviously fueled for pole. However, he did redeem himself in the race. It was actually a very good race from him. It was good to see a different strategy for a change, and Lewis made it work.

The start - For the start of the race I suspect Maclaren decided on a strategy to box Kimi in on purpose. Heikki's first move was obviously to block Kimi off from Hamilton. Hamliton was then a position to just take the place that Heikki left open for him. I think Heikki just blocked Kimi to aggressively and as a result they were too slow, which is why Kubica and Alonso were able to pass them.

Kimi - Kimi's whole weekend where troubled. First the gearbox issues on Friday, then the rain compromised some of the other sessions. Of course yesterday everyone thought Kimi qualified very poorly. But in hindsight his qualifying wasn't actually that bad, fuel correct he was actually on the same pace as Massa. The race it self was damage limitation. And actually he didn't do too badly, considering he had a broken front wing to content with. But overall a weekend to forget.

Heikki - Heikki was actually the star of qualifying, he did a great job considering his fuel load. But because of the start he compromised himself and Kimi in the race. His race strategy was also a bit strange, it would have been much better if Maclaren placed him on a one stop strategy. Pitting 7 laps before the end is a bit nonsensical. Maclaren are going to have too start giving him better strategies. It almost appears as if Maclaren are only concerned with the drivers championship. BMW scored more points today then Maclaren, if Maclaren cares about the constructors title they would have to start by giving Heikki better opportunities in the races.

Alonso - He had a good race, and did a good job. His first stint was very short, perhaps a little to short. Nonetheless he did what he could.

Webber & Rosberg - Both really had great races.

Turkish GP - Was a really exciting race!

[Felipe]

It seems like JavierVivaAlonso is the only person with common sense here. What race have you guys been watching?

[D]

^
Nice one, Felipe!

(By the way, has anyone noticed how well Felipe does at circuits in which the race is run counter-clockwise?)

A couple of points about the race strike me as interesting.

Firstly, we are told that Lewis's strategy of three- stopping was ordained to McLaren by Bridgestone fears. Oh yeah? Well, the only reason I saw for Heikki stopping three times was because he had a puncture on Lap 1.

Secondly, (and consistently with a previous comment by me after Barcelona) I was stuck by the following quote by Martin Whitmarsh, as reported in Autosport.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67370

'McLaren F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh believes Heikki Kovalainen could have scored his maiden grand prix victory at today's Turkish Grand Prix.

Kovalainen, returning to action this weekend following his heavy crash at the Spanish Grand Prix, had qualified on the front row for the first time, outpacing teammate Lewis Hamilton despite carrying a heavier fuel load. ...

... Without the first corner crash, Whitmarsh reckons Kovalainen could have beaten Felipe Massa for victory.'

"If Heikki had not made that stop, he would have run longer than Felipe at the first stop and if he could have been close to Massa, which I think he could have been, he would have been able to take him at the first stop," Whitmarsh told reporters after the race.

And thereafter, the race would have played out differently.

It's easy to say that in hindsight, but I think Heikki did a fantastic job in qualifying with a reasonable fuel load onboard and had he been able to deploy and exploit that in the race, (sic) I've never known him as disappointed as this.

He really felt he could win this race and as the race panned out, I think he knows he could have won it - and it eluded him. And that's disappointing.

And I said to Heikki, he's absolutely right to be disappointed but on the other hand he wouldn't be so disappointed if he hadn't done such a great job to put himself in that position.

He put himself in a position to win a race and he will win races this year and in the future and he really deserves to. He's an extraordinary chap."

Seems to me, whatever may be the relationship between Lewis and Uncle Ron, Martin is mightily pleased with Heikki.

Maybe he appreciates not having Heikki's father getting in everybody's way, too.

I wonder how much fuel they'll handicap Heikki with at Monaco...

[Anon]

" I am not insulting or attacking Hamilton, who is like I said an amazing driver in many other respects." - Javiervivaespania (before B Cave posted)

"The comments by javiervivaespania show his ... his hatred of Lewis"- B Cave

No commment.

Intereting to see how Javier's latest comment has been the subject of this thread. Which is funny, because what he said wasn't more or less as special as what he usually writes. Ae you guys just frustrated or in lack of a target for your anger? Like I've said before, this is a race result which should make everyone happy. A god, conservative drive from Lewis, a Ferrari storm, BMW OUTSCORING MCLAREN (boy, do I love that, cuz I love BMW), Alonso in the points, Webber and Rosberg in the points, the sad story of Super Aguri behind us a we realize the field is still varied enough without them, etc.

Comeone guys, cheer up. I don't why you're all hounding Javier so ferociously, what he said isn't as stupid as you guys make it outto be. Is he speculating about the telemetry? Yes. But you are speculating the other way around. Was Lewis drive's bad? Well, if he had a bette usage of his tires, it could have been much better, mabe even a win.

But hey, why are we fighting over one guy's comments when everybody should be hppy? THe only guy who is pissed after this race is Fisi, cuz the whole weekend went bad. So if you're a Fisi fan, feel free to pout. Othrwise, let's go on to merrier and more intelligent things, shall we please? Not a command, just a friendy suggestion for the benefit of everyone.

[Anon]

Time to correct some misinformation.

"In all his races at this circuit Alonso has never finished better than 3rd.

WRONG. In Turkey '06, Alonso was second to Massa. He also finished second in Turkey '05. He has qualied 3-3-4 in the last three years, but the race result matters more. Which brings me to:

"Lewis has raced on this track 3 times now, in all 3 races he has finished 2nd. His first race in GP2 where he came from 16th place."

WRONG. Like you conveniently fail to mention, last year lewis Hamilton finished a grandiose fifth after having suffered a tire puncture. Alonso finished third. Fifth, third- which telemetry do you want?

"* Alonso was pretty crap today you have to admit,"

Did you even watch the race? If I were you, I would just say you didn't so as to not sound oblivious. I suggest you see the beginning of the race where Fernando bolts past Webber and overtakes a Ferrari in the most daring of manners. You'll point out to me that he was re-overtaken afterwards, but hey, it's like Lewis and Massa- give in to take more points later. He then drove a fantasic race, driving away from Webber until he made such a huge gap we didn't even see either again because Alonso was far away from getting overtaken.

Verbal- sorry man, but Massa won in Bahrain from P2 this year. Technicality, but we don't want to take away from Felipe's moment of glory do we?

And finally, everybody is yelling at Javiervivaespania for no apparent reason other than an erratic burst of anger, but here's something I found very interesting and which goes very much in his favor in this argument over the tires of Lewis:

"Only Lewis Hamilton was asked by Bridgestone to adopt a three-stop strategy for the Turkish Grand Prix.

The recommendation was made to the British driver's McLaren team after signs of delamination were detected inside his tyres - particularly the front right - after the practice and qualifying sessions at Istanbul Park.

Hamilton suffered a tyre failure at the same circuit one year ago, but even a universal construction change for 2008 did not solve the problem that is caused by his unique driving style in the long turn-eight.

"Nobody else has had a repetition of any of those problems this year, with the exception of Lewis," a spokeswoman for F1's official tyre supplier told Reuters."- F1-Live, http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080511191442.shtml

I don't want to be a robo-cop here Gary M, but I think you tripped up a bit in your hurry to pin Javier and Jordi down. Good day mates.

[joan]

Congratulations to Felipe and Ham!
They both are excellent drivers who deserve to win the Championship, I think. They like risks generally and that is why they have had trouble sometimes.

Felipe's style is generally attractive to me, I hope we see some fight involving him in the coming races. Hamilton played it safe, well done! He went for three stops -good discussion point, javierviva, mixed with much nonsense- because he wanted to get what he needs. Had he been more ambitious, he might have lost the pace to run for the championship. He played it risky last year in Brazil showing some inmaturity and he blew it off. So, congratulations Hamilton! It is necessary to know your weaknesses and strengths.

Alonso is definitively out of the game. It will be fun to see him back some time in the coming seasons, cause he is really competitive, despite the wild hooliganism he awakens. The best thing of it all is that he is not complaining or blaming the car or the team. He is learning to behave before a microphone!

[Derek Smith]

This suggestion that Heikki could have secured a maiden win sems a bit iffy to me. The penalty with carrying a higher fuel load is that you tend to lose places at the start, and this is what happened with Heikki. Further, the fight for the lower places is often considerably more dangerous. It's a balance of risks decision.

There was no way Hamilton would have let him through, given Lewis' lighter fuel load, so Heikki would have wandered around in third, presumably dropping back from his team mate, until lap 16. Given the similar fuel loads I would think tht Kimi might have been a threat at pit stop times as well.

From my crudish calculations I reckon Heikki's best bet was second although third seems to be more likely. This would have taken the pressure off Lewis towards the end as well. Fourth had the same liklihood as second.

It was quite an exciting and enjoyable race. You have to feel for Heikki though.

I was wondering if there is likely to be a hefty fine for the owners of the Turky circuit. Anyone know who runs it?

[A Parker]

Some of the comments on here are plain stupid. Jaime, Kovaleinen got 2nd on the grid - how was McLaren impeding him? He ended up at the back because of the puncture in the first turn by Raikkonen. I sometimes wonder if some of you actually watch the races. Your conviction about the evil of Hamilton and Ron Dennis skews any hope of rationality in your posts.

[supercampeaobrasileiro]

verbal - have you watched F1 recently? Massa won bahrain from 2nd place not pole and that was only a few races ago!! You have a v short memory! In any event, in modern F1, on many tracks, pole sitters win races! That is a fact.

Anyway, felicidades felipinho!! Great race from massa and hamilton -v exciting to see another 3 way fight for WDC developing again this year. Massa and Ham answered critics this weekend.

Disappointing race for Kimi -I think ferrari would have hoped for another 1-2. Still makes WDC more exciting!

[A Parker]

Anon, Javier viva whatever's comments are always idiotic; it's just the first time that everyone agrees about it and have commented on it.

[colin grayson]

so kova had 7 laps more fuel than hamilton in Q3 did he ; did he ****; nobody notice he took on some fuel on lap 1 when he punctured ? he would now be forced to an orthodox 2 stopper in effect [ 4 stopper ...no chance of a point ]

uncle ron said that both cars planned a 3 stopper because of the tyre problem , a function of their design which is being discussed with bridgestone ; after all , as sole supplier , it is incumbent on them to produce tyres suitable for all teams ..this isn't a one chassi design formula ; will be interesting to see what the new regs produce

so bmw outscored ML did they ? couldn't be because they had 2 cars aginst one after a ML puncture , could it ?

and whitmarsh reckons kova could have won , does he ? ever heard of spin ? wonder which cheek he had his tongue in ? am sure that in his heart of hearts even kova knows that , on this track , all the advantages were with massa

with regard to the comments on the start strategy ,just watch it again ; hamilton had the clean side and made the best of it , massa set out to block kova and succeeded , even better than he intended as it turned out !

and full marks to whoever pointed out that according to javiers logic alonso was driving on kimis telemetry last year , not his own !

hands up who watched the interview with felipes crew chief before the race ; no spin , no evasion [ how untypical for F1 ] ; he said that Felipe likes his car set up with slight understeer , that's how he feels confident , and that the istanbul circuit is perfect for that sort of set up with lots of long curves [ despite someone else's comments , no mention of clockwise or anti ] ; short of some mishap he was confident massa would win

of course , the shorter wheelbase ML's are at the other end of the spectrum [ hamilton's fault javier ? he should have designed a longer wheelbase car ?]

request to ed ; could you change the positioning of the name of the poster to the top of the post please ?; that way I don't have to start reading blogs from certain people to realise that it is going to be uninformed arrant nonsense

with regard to ML's tyre problems ; I understand bridgestones loyalty to ferrari who , don't forget , set them on winning ways ; the other teams were well aware that the tyres would be specifically tailored for ferrari and went to michelin [ if I remember correctly one small team was also induced to go to bridgestone to give some help with testing ] ; of course , what the other teams didn't realise was that , with the injection of renault cash , the ex benneton, ex something else team would come up with a competitive car with great electronic aids .... michelin then tailored the tyres to that car [ if renault was your biggest customer and the same nationality what would YOU do ; so all the other teams now had a choice of tyres suited to either ferrari or renault [ notice how alonso baled out when this situation stopped !

and with regard to kimi catching hamilton near the end , funny how that seems to happen in the later laps of a race when the driver in front feels confident that he can't be overtaken isn't it ?

[Alex]

Javier.... "But he gave the attempt up, and took the loser's strategy: three stops. I am not insulting or attacking Hamilton"......

Any independent observer would be forgiven for not quite believing you.....

It is amazing how many Spaniards are still desperately trying to devalue every element of Lewis' performances and spread as many lies as possible in the vain hope that by incessantly repeating them, they may become fact.

McLaren always gave FA and LH equal cars and Lewis beat Fernando in his rookie season because he is a better driver. Get over it.

While I am at it, what a spirited defence of his place by Fernando against Kimi yesterday, I do hope they catch those bad men who must have been waving all those Blue flags we never actually saw.

[Alexspain]

Congrats to Massa and Hamilton. Clearly they are both maturing fast and delivering the goods. I think Kimi will have a problems if they keep driving like that. I was very surprise about McLaren performance. After Barcelona I thought the Ferraris were gone for a while, but in Turkey Hamilton demonstrated not only he can drive but also he han set up the car correctly. Bad luck for his team mate again. Monaco will be fun. Javier and Jordi please shut up! If you want to write non-sense go to El Marca blog.

[Lucy]

It's such a shame that trolls have to spoil this place. It completely distracts everyone from having a decent discussion.
Yesterdays race was fantastic to watch. It was such a shame what happened to Heikki i really want to see him and Lewis on the podium.
Lewis was great yesterday and if some of you can't bring yourselves to admit that then it's a shame but deep down you know it's true.

[Verbal]

I think Heiki did a great job but the McLaren team knew (because of their strategy) from the start there was no chance Heiki would win the race. and the reason there is so much praise for Heikki from Ron and Martin is because he fullfiled his task albeit at a very high cost for himself. Like Adele says Heikis task was to box in Raikkonen and keep him back from hamilton. While this strategy MIGHT give Lewis tyhe cavorted WDCs, it greatly reduces Macca's chances of a constructors sheild

Its a shame McLaren have someone ini Heikki who shows potential to beat Hamilton but we may never really find out for sometime to come cos he's being used as the sacrificial lamb. I suspect we are going to see an increasing number of "incidents" and near misses between the two Finns

Alonso at Ferrari - I dont think so but I wouldnt bet against Heiki or Hamilton (yes I said Hamilton)

[Demian]

Undoubtedly, Lewis is one of the fastest drivers in F1, and the McLaren's one of the best cars in the paddock... but, can we say without doubt that a driver that abuses one of the parts of his car (tyres, engine, gearbox) can be considered "the best" driver out there?
What I mean is, I saw last year that Lewis had a tendency to abuse tyres, that ended up in he not finishing some of the races or losing several places during the race (Turkey, China, for example.) He demonstrated the same tendency this year, wich forced his team to choose a less than optimal strategy (missing the chance to earn two more points.)
So he's fast, he's aggresive, he's a focused driver, but he wears his tyres a lot, and that's a flaw.
So, will that flaw be crucial for him, AGAIN, this season? Or will his other talents compensate for this flaw? Will he be able to change this or it's an intrinsic part of his driving style?
If you think, like me, that a more "complete" driver with a good car has more possibilities, then Kimi's off for a second championship.
And finally, will Felipe's performance last?
Only time will tell...

[ram]

1. Hamilton lost the race when he decided to go for his last qualifying lap on a hard set of tyres. if he had gone for soft and had started from pole he could have open a lead of 10 sec. in the first stint and a further 10 sec. in the second so he could have won the race.
2. Kovalained played his part at the stard when he blocke Raikkonen in the inner line and opened the way for Hamilton in the outer and faster line of the first corner. that is a great teammate.

[Yo]

' must be getting old javier ; for a while I really thought that you believed the things you posted ..now I know you are either

having a joke or
have never watched an F1 race

so hamilton was using alonso's settings from last year was he ? you hadn't noticed they have removed traction control and the cars are running lower ?

as john mcEnroe always says , you cannot be serious'. Colin please you have to setup your car with or without traction, Javier wanted to said that Hamilton don't know how to setup his car, and this is truth, is delaRosa who is doing this year and did last year with FA. I think you never see a F1 race. You rae demostrating.

[Nik]

oh and nobody has really talked about the poor job that McLaren and Vodafone are doign with Hamilton's image. That play he did in Istanbul was histerical. Whoever thought of that (and I imagine it may have been sabotage) should get a good kick in the ass.

Hamilton has an image that is just too pure and clean, and he seems very much like a 'daddy boy' (both Ron's son and his dads son). When you see a shot of the pits during the race, most drivers have a couple of hot models hanging around along with some champs and various celebrities. In Lewis' garage it is just his ever-present dad.

I can imagine that while out on the road Heikki and Kimmi are probably pulling late nights partying in their rooms with hookers and blow, while Hamilton is in his room with his dad playing F1 on his playstation. I just can't imagine Lewis getting laid, ever, which isn't the most attractive image with which to attract fans in F1.

I think crowds have always enjoyed more outspoken and laid-back drivers. Lewis needs an urgent make-over and a better media campaign. They need to drop the fine-tuned and scripted soundbites and liven him up a little. They especially need to get him out of those ridiculous promos and give him more of a personality.

If not, he might just become the most boring world champion ever, and a reflection of the sad state of modern F1.

I could be wrong, but I am very certain that the primary demographic in F1 is still 18-50 year old males. F1 press conferences and driver interviews are becoming more and more like the Soviet propaganda films that depicted a pleasant and utopian society. Next I expect that on the podium the drivers will be asked to hold hands and dance in a circle while singing disney songs (as part of an exclusive multi-year deal between F1 and Disney)

[Nik]

One thing I just noticed about the start at the Turkish Grand Prix is just how much of an advantage being in an odd-numbered grid position is (ie. being on the cleaner outside line).

Almost every odd-numbered starter over-took the person infront of them before the first corner, eg:

* Hamilton (3) overtook Heiki (2)
* Kubica (5) overtook Kimmi (4) and Heiki (2)
* Alonso (7) overtook Webber (6) and Kimmi (4)
* Heidfeld (9) overtook Trulli (8)
* Rosberg (11) overtook Trulli (8) and DC (10)

So being on the clean side at Istanbul is worth at least a single grid position..

They should probably do something about that

[Gary M]

@ Robocop (Anon)

Yeh, you are right. It my eagerness to dismiss the rubbish from Javier I may have got a little mixed up with my information. You are right of course Lewis only finished in 5th last year. I apologise for posting incorrect info, call it a mis-wiki.

Does not make Javier anymore correct though, it is the most stupid thing to suggest that Lewis only got 2nd place because of Alonso's data.

Javier if you really believe this stuff then you will be no doubt very happy to hear that a new X-Files movie will be out soon. "I want to believe" just about sums up your whole take on F1.

[Verbal]

Like Anon says ...I wont rain on Massa's parade

[Marco]

Great performance by Lewis, but certainly not better than kimi´s (also advancing positions during the race) and Massa.

[Andy]

heikki is a great driver for sure but i dont think he's as fast as lewis, he has out qualified lewis twice but then that also means lewis has out qualified heikki 3 times, lh has also been consistantly slightly faster than hk in practice runs and Q1/Q2. I think it just shows really how good both drivers are, hk wouldnt be there if he didnt deserve to be, they're racing in identical cars remember, if there was a large difference in their times either way one of them wouldnt be there much longer.

on other notes im loving how many great drivers there are in the pack at the moment, we know that felipe kimi alonso are all great drivers, but in the last couple of years we've got hamilton, heikki, rosberg and kubica (who is just, well, awesome, i really think this guy would be unstoppable in a few years if he goes to ferrari). Not to mention Webber who has finally ended his 2-3 year string of the worst luck ever and started showing us that hey, hes actually pretty damn quick. Button, glock, coulthard, barichello all great too, there really arnt that many weak links on the grid anymore compared to say during the schumacher era. Makes the whole thing much more interesting to watch because its not just the front 6 cars lapping another 18 anonymous backmarkers in outdated equipment.

[INSIDER WHO CANNOT BE NAMED]

By no means I am trying to defend Javiervivaespana position but indeed we can use hard drive saved telemetric data as reference for future races. I am not suggesting that McLaren, and in particular Lewis, have used fernando's data...but sure it is not a headless thought.

Best wishes and well done Lewis today. But as I said before: this is Ferrari's year...again!

[Carleton Twitchell]

For those wanting a statistical 'fix ' here goes ..perusing the NY Times ( oops sorry Ed!:) F1 site "All-Time Wins "list ...makes interesting read especially as it changes and current racers move past non - current racers /legends etc .. so reading down from near the top ..we have top current racer Alonso with 19:Kimi on 17;Sir Stirling on 16: Graham Hill14:Coulthard 13 ( more wins there I think David!!?):Jaques Villeneuve 11:Rubens at 9:Hunt 10:Montoya 7:Felipe Massa on 7 :Lewis 5:Keke Rosberg (ex WC)5:Guisseppe Farina 5(legend):Fisi 3:Peter Collins ( my hero) on 3 and his Mon Ami Mate Hawthorn also on 3 ( both legends !). The entire list is a good read.
What struck me was the drivers who were huge names and how many wins they accrued and drivers we tend to overlook who gradually over the years rack up a lot of wins .
So if Alonso has a poor year at Renault then Kimi will overhaul his slim lead in ATW's.. and Massa may well get into double-digits .
What really stood out for me was Lewis total of 5 .. he does need a win or two or three to keep his title hopes alive and show the opposition he means buisness and is a force to be reckoned with .Drive with gusto,drive your heart out !!!