Mosley is too embarrassing for Monte Carlo as well

Much as I would like to leave this enjoyable place dominated by our poll on the best Formula One drivers of all time(if you haven't made your choice, please have a go below), an update on Mosley is required. Today we report that he will not represent the FIA at Monaco and that his place will be taken in any formal settings - ones where Prince Albert might be involved, for example - by Marco Piccinini.

The FIA have tried to dress this up as their own decision which, in some senses, it was. However it is abundantly clear that Mosley cannot operate any longer and, by taking this step, the FIA itself is recognising this. The moral arguments about Mosley will go on but we have now seen that, chronologically, Bahrain, Spain, Israel, Turkey and now Monaco have found him an unsuitable person to deal with and this is not going to change whether the General Asembly endorses him on June 3rd or not.

In the meantime, the FIA/Mosley is opening up all sorts of smokescreens to distract from this core issue. Have a read of this interesting piece by my colleague Joe Saward.

Comments

[A Parker]

Thanks for keeping us up-to-date with this, Ed. This is becoming quite amusing, but it is also tragic that this disgusting man is still clinging on to power.

[F1-Insider]

Ed
Well I knew he couldn't carry the Sunday morning the story broke as did many others involved in F1!!!
Why on earth those at the FIA and more so Mosley (Ecclestone) himself could not see this says everything about Mosley's ego and deranged views of his own self importance and the incompetence of the FIA officials and of course Ecclestone (show me the money).
As I write dirty politics are taking place to ensure that Mosley (and Ecclestone) wants are granted - remember you read this here.
In my view (and the view of many in F1) both Mosley and Ecclestone should leave now so F1 can be reclaimed for both the teams and the fans.
I wait with interest to see how the press (other than the Times) and the TV stations report this (will be surprised if we here anything on the BBC).
However interesting the other blogs by Ed Gorman are the Mosley scandal is current and we have never seen anything like this before and is the news at the moment so has to be both reported and commented on.
Mosley you cannot do his job resign today and show the world you have, just a little self respect left.

[17 points in two races]

Dear Ed. This is private life. Are you going to ask to Prince Albert about his sexual life? And Princess Stefany? Do your remember another video in a swimming-pool with her ex-husband and a bad girl?
Both cases, Mr. Mosley and Princess Stefany are blackmail, and you are using these blakmails. The more you use blackmail, the more you will have.
Do you imagine if we obtain videos with all the people in the F1 business with female and male prostitutes, and we use them against our enemies? In the Bible, they say "The one who can throw the first stone, done it"
SOCIAL HIPOCRESY!!!

[Stelmara]

Please, those that are not really interested in F1 or motor sport please just go away. This blog is the best blog on all that is F1 and it’s the weak liberals that make it very difficult to respond in the right way to the hottest scandal ever to have embraced formula 1 of any other sporting organisation I am aware of.
Whether it’s his so called private life or not is totally irrelevant to Mosley’s ability to carry on in his role as the president of the FIA, this is not some tin pot organisation it is the FIA, the world governing body for all things on 4 wheels (well you know what I mean).
You cannot be the prosecutor, jury and judge saying that it doesn’t matter how evidence was collected (Mosley during the prosecution{moderator edit} of Mclaren 2008) only to say the opposite when it affects oneself – doh!
The facts are; 1) Mosley IS a spanking pervert, 2) Mosley pays women (5 in this case) for sex, 3) Mosley beats these women and likes to be beaten back, 4) Mosley engages in unnatural sex acts, 5) Mosley likes to speak to English prostitutes in a fake ello ello German accent (funny that isn’t it)?, 6) Mosley has a duty of care, at all times to the FIA and the position he holds and not to bring it into disrepute as he most certainly has and is doring, 7) Mosley has, in effect been banned form 4 Grand Prix’s, 8) Major manufactures and motoring organisations have called for him to, in effect resign forthwith, 9) Mosley has lost the F1 paddock and 10) Mosley IS NOT bigger or more important than either the FIA, F1, the fans or the opinions of by far, by far the majority of people who follow F1 and right minded morally grounded people in general --------------- These are the fact (get over them)!
I say to these woolly liberals go away, as soon as Mosley goes we can talk about other things to do with F1 although I doubt we’ll be hearing from you again.

If I had my way I would sack the lot of them (the FIA) and start over as I believe there are so many shady deals that if we knew the facts ………………… well some things better left unsaid I think.

The fact that not a single team boss has dared to put on the record that they cannot work with Mosley again says everything we all need to know both of the FIA and the Stalin like grip Mosley and Ecclestone have managed to gain over F1--------------------It is time for a change, a change for the better.

Not sure you will publish this Ed, hope you will as it is 100% true and we all know it (even the woolly liberals).

[A Parker]

Very well put, Stelmara. I too cannot understand how some people cannot recognise these arguments. I wouldn't put it down to woolly liberalism though. I consider myself to be woolly and liberal, which is why I find the idea of a man who runs an international organisation (it would be the same for any top position) who indulges in such foul things as an orgy that entails being checked for lice and prostitutes dressed in uniforms reminiscent of concentration camp victims, so utterly utterly repulsive, and this is what makes his position completely untenable.

What sort of person would defend that? Who cares how the footage came out - we live in the age of the NOTW and the internet. If you indulge in such pasttimes, just make sure you are Joe Blogs down the road, and not someone in Max Mosley's position.

[Keith]

Ed, what did you make of Mark Hughes' article in Autosport yesterday explaining how little power the Extraordinary General Meeting has to take action against Mosley?

Do you think it's likely enough of Mosley's supporters will stick by him to keep him in power? If so, what will that do to F1?

A Parker

Excepted, I use the woolly liberal expression as a general term, can't think of the words to better express those that keep bleating the same message about private life etc (suggestions) without seeing the bigger picture.
No offence intended to your own liberal views :-)
The bottom line is we are in full agreement that Mosley just has to go for the good of F1 and the FIA (I also expect his family would like him out of the news, this can't be much fun for them can it)?

[Pierre]

@ F1-Insider,

You are a raving lunatic!

[Derek Smith]

We are told that the ballot, such as it is, on 3 June will be secret. What will be secret? The result? Who voted and which way? Will we be told the figures? Or will it just be Max Rufus Mosley telling us his interpretation?

Anything but a vote of confidence approaching a 100% majority will be insufficient. A simple majority in his favour must be seen as a defeat. Given the limited nature of the proposal they are voting on, his support must be overwhelming or else he must go. But will we know the figures?

Max has no checks and no limits. It would appear that whatever the result of the voting he cannot be forced from his position. This is a reprehensible position that the FIA has allowed itself to fall into.

Mosley is not a figurehead with few and limited powers and authority: he is in control. The 222 delegates might ask themselves what they are voting for. I am certainly bewildered.

This is third world politics.

[peter]

Stelmara, I agree with everything you say. But for me, I've never cared what Spanky Max gets up to in his sex life, the world sees all sorts of sexual oddities and people never hesitate to feel morally superior and pass judgement on others sex lives !!

What does disturb me, and I think sums up why Spanky has to go, is the climate of fear that even now with Spanky's future looking uncertain, still pervades the F1 paddock... I notice also the way some of the media is carefully steering clear of the "Chronicles of Spanky".

It reminds me of the late Robert Maxwell who used the law not just to protect his privacy but also to suppress fair comment and speculation. He was a bully and so is Spanky, and I would dearly love to see either team principles or manufacturers making a stand and refusing to have anything to do with him..

Like most people I think the N.O.W is an unprincipled rag. However, Spanky is finding out that there are always bigger bully's in the playground, and if he thinks that the N.O.W has not got more revelations ready to spring on him at the best moment (for them) then he has learnt nothing.

[Dale]

Peter and Stelmara

I agree totally that spanky Mosley has to go. The scandal together with, as Peter says the fear and way he has controlled F1...(edit/Moderator) as a total dictator are all reasons why he has to go.

[A Parker]

Stelmara, no offence taken :)
The woolly liberal.

[F1-Insider]

Hi Pierre
I wasn’t aware that they had let you out. This time remember to keep taking your medication (1 in the morning and 2 at night) and all will be well and in time you will slot back into society, OK?

Glad to see you’re still reading my posts and it’s always nice to ponder over your well thought out replies, excellent.

Regards
F1-Insider

[Will]

Get rid of the sexual deviant, and lets get on with the racing.

[F1-Insider]

Derek Smith
Your phrase 'reprehensible' certainly sums up Mosley's and the FIA's bewildering shameless behaviour in this scandal
As Stelmara says, the Stalin like grip Mosley wields over F1 with both his draconian justice and ruling by fear of retribution says an awful lot about this shamed man.
All of you reading this should remember that (if I understand it correctly) S&M Mosley likes to both give pain and receive it and I genuinely believe he is enjoying his ultimate moment in the news and the grief he is causing in F1 circles.
Seriously can anyone here imagine when Ron Dennis's name got dragged into this affair that Mosley didn’t love every second of it?
I don't know much about S&M but isn't it true to say, now that we know what he is, that he cannot be judged in the same way as others who conduct themselves in a more normal/acceptable way where both giving and receiving pain is not in their make-up?
As the judge said you can never put the genie back in the bottle, not ever, did Mosley not here that?
From all of F1 (well certainly by far the majority if not all) resign now Mr Mosley and fight whatever case you believe you have against News International as a private citizen (after all by all accounts you have enough money to do so) so that F1 and motor sport can stop being dragged along with you and start to rise again, for heavens sake do the right thing!

[Mark]

Let's see - world leaders don't want him to attend races and certainly don't want to meet with him. The Monaco paddock will, according to some reports, have people on the lookout for Max so that the team principles can avoid being seen or photographed with him. People ridicule him rather openly. He runs the FIA with a personal agenda and wields his power in a way that most people think is a detriment to the sport.

Furthermore, he has taken the lead in trying to turn Formula 1 - the pinnacle of motorsport - into the world's most expensive spec series.

Yeah, he needs to go. It can't be more clear.

[17 points in two races]

Dear Ed, first of all thank you for let me think in a diferent way of you, and not to be necessary a "woolly liberal". George Orwell, died at 47 years old, and he had time to write 1984 (against Stalin) and went to civil war in Spain (against Franco)
My opinión about Mr. Mosley about his private (now public) life is quite similar to yours, but the way we knew it is BLACKMAIL.
We can understand why you can´t see a breast in an American movie, but you can see dozens of deaths.
Love to all the hipocrisy supporters from a latin woolly liberal. From a latin country like Spain its difficult to accept that Eclestone and Moxley are doing their job well/bad because of their sexual lifes... yes including if they are really .... strange.
To STELMARA: Are you sure your wife/husband loves you, or maybe its for your money...

[peter]

To 17 points in two races.

I,m sorry you can't see that Spankys hypocrisy is relevent. We are now so used to our Iberian bloggers hysteria about Alonso/McClaren it's amazing to read someone so laid back.

Perhaps if Spanky had been spanking Fernando, you might be a tad more exited.

[David Hodge]

I hope you don't mind me taking a liberty with your blog, Ed, and referring those interested to another Joe Saward piece. This has very recently been published - in the last few hours (and I am writing in the evening of 16th May). Several key points raised and it ties in neatly with the smokescreen comments. Ed, the massed bloggers here would no doubt be interested on your take on this letter as well if you have a copy. Here is the link:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20360.html

[Jordi]

wowwww!

Sack the guy for doing a bad job, but not for fining McLaren with $100 million.

His sexual live? I couldn't care less.

Has he done anything illegal? NO.

PD: Please can someone tell me what is an unnatural sex act and what is a natural sex act?

Make a list, so we know.

[andyps]

A copy of the letter which MM has sent to the FIA member clubs which is effectively his plea for them to vote for him to remain in power seems to have been "released". In it he states that it would be "irresponsible, even a breach of duty, to walk away from a number of negotiations currently under way, all of which are of fundamental importance to the FIA".

Details of the letter are available at http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20360.html
and
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67479

Makes sickening reading, how low the man will go to retain the power he obviously so desperately craves.

[AndyG]

Max has completed the journey to becoming motorsport's Mugabe.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67479

Jordi - what motivates you? Do you really believe the stuff you say? Or do you have some huge grudge against the Brits for our support for Hamilton against your failing and dissembling anti-hero?

By all normal standards around the world, Mosley has brought the sport into disrepute and needs to go. And this without even considering his allegedly corrupt and abusive behaviour.

Jordi, are you living in a dream world where the rules are whatever you want them to be?

[Gary M]

That Link that David Hodge provided is an interesting read.

In his letter to the FIA club presidents Max Mosley talked about the negotiations with F1 about changing the 100 year agreement. He warned....

"A new president would then take over with no knowledge of the background," he said. "And, worse, might perhaps have been elected with the support of the very people with whom we are negotiating."

That is so funny I nearly wet my pants when I read it!

[teamwork-toronto-ON]

well, i wonder what the teams and race organizers will do after june 3rd when the 222 decide that max will STAY!!
because the maFIA can't survive without max! . . hhmmm isn't the same as Hitler used to say?

and the first venue after that will be Canada! . . ouch! :S

couldn't be better! . . *sigh*

[F1-Insider]

David Hodge
Hmmm, told you dirty politics were going on behind the scenes as I write. The truth is there now exists a void at the FIA where keys officials no longer trust each other (more dirty politics).
The article http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20360.html
brings to the public domain a few of the behind the scenes political manoeuvring (need to be a little careful what I say here).
F1 in particular should not be about politics it should be the very top of motor sport, sport being the key word. F1 should be about pushing the boundaries, breaking the mould and thinking outside the box. F1 should not be ruled in a manner that ties one hand behind the designers back, anyone who has studied the current rules to which they have to design the cars will know what I am saying.
10 years ago Mclaren introduced a kers unit on their cars only for the huge investment made by Mclaren being deemed illegal by the FIA (Ferrari). If the FIA (spanky) had not done this kers would be 10 years forward, all cars would be running them and would be running in a limited form on today's road cars (not that the FIA (Mosley) ever get it wrong)!
Let's not forget (some may need reminding) that it was Mosley that signed the 100 year deal for the F1 rights (100 years - unreal).
There can be know doubting that Mosley is an extremely intelligent and articulate man and is a far better politician than many of those in parliament, but these are the points, F1 should not be about politics, it doesn't have to be and doesn't need to be.
The FIA and their rules are a result of the duopoly of the Mosley/Ecclestone partnership and have been achieved under Mosley's watch.
However much Mosley and his cronies try to muddy the water Mosley's perversions and flaws make him simply unsuitable to continue in his role as the president of the FIA - he has been found out. The moral high ground he has taken on so many issues and statements used in the same are coming back to haunt him - double standards comes to mind.

Let's remember that F1 does not need the FIA, the FIA needs F1 and like others have suggested I urge F1 to break the mould and depart in force from the FIA and start over.
As Honda's CEO is reported to have said yesterday, if anything F1 should do its best to attract more manufacturers and the climate needs to be such that the likes of VW, Mazda and the emerging asian giants of the future see the benefits of joining the party so boundaries can be broken which will in turn have benefits to their manufacturing of their road cars.
I urge all those involved not to allow Mosley to muddy the waters any more.
There are a number of officials at the FIA (an awful lot of them) who only have their own self interest at heart - time for a change.

[Stelmara]

What a shite this man is, he knows no honour. Every day he stays in the news is just another day he brings the FIA into disrepute.
The spanking was ban enough, the whipping was bad enough, the orgy with 5 prostitutes was bad enough, the ello ello fake German accent was bad enough, bringing F1 and the FIA is bad enough, being banned from 4 Grand Prix is bad enough and on and on and on and on.
As I and others have said spanker Mosley and Ecclestone go hand in hand and it now (if I judge the veiled hints correctly) as though a gulf has opened between them. I say trust neither of them both money and self interest is all either cares about.
Even with the above written I expect the spanker will be given a vote to stay in post as the FIA is just rotten to the core how else can this ongoing scandal still be going on?
Some excellent comments notwithstanding the few nutters, they know who they are.
Stelmara

[Derek Smith]

There is a delicious irony in MM suggesting that if he goes then the FIA will lose F1. The FIA has no control over F1 at this moment, it is all in the hands of MM. If he does go then the worst one could say is that the FIA stand a chance of getting it back.

One wonders if there's any connection with the degree of spin in MM's letter and the banning of traction control.

[Bojan]

"F1-insider" mentioned one of the key arguments I see as being the most important in considering whether Mosley should stay or go:
1. He signed the 100-years F1 contract for which he now claims that only he can renegociate it!?
2. Mosley claims there is no person being informed well enough about the business to be able to replace him on a short notice!?
3. When there was the (Michelin) tyre crisis in Indianapolis the only action or statement by Mosley that I can still recall was his whingeing of a completely spoiled weekend which he planned to spend reading some interesting books. He did some "work" after the weekend was gone and he must have read at least some of the books. BTW, I'd really like to know which books.
4. No matter what Mosley was doing in Chelsea or elsewhere, a responsible international public personality would absolutely have to take all the precautions to gain absolute control of the video-photo and similar potentially incriminating material. By not doing so he only manifested his ignorance and/or arrogance and/or incompetence.
5. A president or CEO who publicly claims to be irreplacable should be sacked immediately and without any financial compensation. It only means that he/she has run the business in a way to make himself/herself irreplacable and not as it should be: to make the organisation stronger and less vulnerable.
Wooly liberal as I am, I'm entertaining the funny idea of having a gay coloured woman as the next FIA president - just to show sex had nothing to do with Mosley's departure. :-)

[Dale]

Well if I read this latest pervey Mosley news correctly it looks like open war is taking place between Mosley and Ecclestone (CVC who Ecclestone works for).
It's reported that Mosley has warned in his letter that the FIA risk loosing control of F1, if this is true then its about flipping time, talk about egos and selfinterest.
The whole thing stinks more every day.

[Alex]

The latest article on grandprix.com appears to suggest Mad Max is threatening Bernie and that the people behind his setup were "involved in the negotiations for the commercial rights" and "wanted him out of the way".

The endgame to this may prove to be more dramatic than Max's alleged Nazi style spanking.

Meanwhile, at great expense to the FIA, one of Britain's finest legal minds, Anthony Scrivener QC is still trying to find some evidence of "inspecting for ze hair lice" in "normal" i.e. non Nazi themed S&M practices. He clearly will not and it will be fascinating how they try to wriggle out of that one.

[B Cave]

Andy G, for Jordi see Javiervivaespania as well. Lunatics in my view. Must be something to do with being an Alonso supporter.

[Verbal]

@F1-INSIDER - Max must go but F1 and FIA need each other equaly, every land needs a law. as for Hondas CEO I think he's bitter and/or has an axe to grind, there is room for the under dog, the privateers on the grid, the Williams, force indias and saubers have always endeared F1 and provide an extra dimension making F1 that much more of a sport. Without these private teams the atmosphere would be even more political and comercially driven ...as they say, be careful what you wish for

[JO J]

Having read this blog since the NOTW spying scandal began, it goes without saying that this newspaper and the majority of contributors want MM removed.
It's equally clear that these people are using the sex life story as their weapon/excuse to destroy MM - not because of his sexual deviations but because of the way he presides over F1.
They repeatedly list other reasons why he should not be in office and furthermore go on to say that his colleague BE and the FIA as a whole should be disolved.
By doing so they are showing their hand.
This adds to the belief that the NOTW was put up to this by MM's impotent enemies.
Why else would this newspaper continue to pile on the pressure?
The vindictive rhetoric or at best, blind acceptance of under-hand immoral tactics do not indicate that the editor nor many contributors have high moral standards.
As long as the editor continues to use moralistic arguments to remove this man from office, I will continue to remind people that the real immorality was perpetrated by his colleagues in his sister journal and that we would know nothing of MM's sexual desires if NOTW had not invaded his privacy.
I hope that in repeatedly reminding us that MM likes kinky sex, the editor is only following orders in defence of his job because if not, it is very strange for him to expend so much energy on keeping a man's sexlife in the public domain.
Especially on a motorsport page.

[Jordi]

Andy G
How you manage to bring Hamilton into anything and everything is mind blowing. You are living in a dream, I guess in that dream you are walking on the beach holding hands with Lewis...(would that be natural or unnatural?)

[Weasel]

I have read the contents of the salient links to the posted comments - the insightful piece by Joe Saward and the comments on the Mosley letter at Grandprix.com and autosport.com.

What is abundantly clear are the machinations of a desperate man to try and manipulate the situation to his own advantage, in the face of huge adversity. There used to be an acronym in business for this kind of tactic: FUD - Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt and it is apparent the Prince Maxiavelli is desperately trying to use these tactics to destabilize the situation.

Now that all belief has been suspended, I am simply flabbergasted as to the Maxiavelli spin that his sexual encounter was entrapment. If, as is reported, he did indeed set up and orchestrate the hiring of five prostitutes and a dungeon like venue for the purpose of following his sexual proclivities and did specifically request that the episode be video recorded for his later enjoyment - not for the first time either it would seem, then how can this possibly be seen as entrapment? You set something up and knowing and willingly participate and now it is entrapment? - please spare me.

I await a Maxiavellian revival of the Teflon Bill Clinton statement when under impeachment proceedings for the Monica Lewinsky scandal. "It depends on what the definition of is is"

As to the 100 year deal, the commercial manipulations of the FIA
if enacted in the United States, would be immediately investigated by the Justice Department and would be shut down immediately. It is called racketeering plain and simple.

Maxiavelli makles Don Corleone look like a saint.

[Weasel]

Just came across this gem from Maxiavelli after my previous posting:

"It will also give me time to pursue the legal proceedings I have started against those who have caused so much unnecessary trouble and embarrassment."

Ah yes, "trouble and embarrassment" eh? That would be those pesky journalists reporting on those activities which you set up, the services which you coordinated and directed and paid good money for and in which you participated with apparent gusto and pleasure, wouldn't it? You know, entrapment and all that.

[Koj Finland]

Mosley says: 'it would be irresponsible, even a breach of duty, to walk away from his role as president of the FIA'.
What is he on? A breach of duty Mr Mosley was bringing both formula one and the FIA into disrepute. Like so many others here I almost can't believe what I am reading and yet we all know it to be true. Imagine if a film were made of this, it is so far fetched nobody would believe it.
Mosley is gone, surely he has gone and can't come back from this so what is Eccleston trying to do, assuming Mosley's letter reflects in part the truth about the take over, he is looking after himself as he knows more than anyone that if, and like others I hope when, formula one leaves the FIA that his shares in formula one will be worthless. I am not a genius but even I can see what is going on and english is only my second language, Finns rule.

[Stelmara]

@ 17 points
Thanks for your concern but I am not married. Maybe the Guardian would be a better place for you. It is not my fault that you are unable to see the big picture.
In very simple terms I gave 10 reasons why he is not suitable, anyone of the 10 may have been enough but guilty of all 10 and more but you and your type sill will not see it, I think it's just an argument that you are looking for, that's OK so as it keeps you happy;}

[F1-Insider]

Having been involved in F1 for many years, what is going on now is unprecedented, just unimaginable a few years ago, I thought I had seen it all.
Ecclestone (CVC) have loads of money tied up in F1, even he must be quivering now as, if the coded slant is proven the ringmasters reputation will be forever dented as Mosley’s has albeit for different reasons.

Verbal, I strongly disagree that F1 needs the FIA, it is the FIA that needs F1. F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport (well it should be), it is the cash cow that feeds the FIA (where is all the money coming from to fly all the officials in etc), F1 is the kudos the FIA need to gain them a seat as the major lobbying force for most things motoring. I fully agree that F1 needs rules like everyone else we all live by rules of one sort or another.

I would like to see F1 split from all other forms of motor sport and the chains of the FIA/Ecclestone/Mosley and race under a new governing body where the environment was such that the very best want and need to compete just to be in the game. One can never go back in life and the days of the privateer are all but over unless they are owed by billionaires a millionaires are no longer rich enough (if they ever were, maybe you are to young to remember James Hunt’s first team Hesketh http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/con-heske.html).

Whether we like it or not without the manufacturers there would be no modern F1 and I for one do not want to go back 30 years or more, I want F1 to develop the next generation of cars, let’s not forget many design ideas that first see the light of day in an F1 car become mainstream over time. A modern Vauxhall Sri Type saloon can lap Silverstone faster than the classic Aston Martin DB5. There is no shortage of money in the world, even in the current economic climate, for F1 when the profile is right. We don’t see Mclaren struggling for sponsorship do we? (even after the Spygate affair). If F1 was handed back to the teams it could almost be self funding as more money leaves F1 than any here could possibly imagine!!!!!!!!

There are still a number of major brands (not just car manufactures) not involved in F1 and we should ask ourselves why that is, I believe it’s more to do with, in many ways backward rules (these need freeing up to allow the likes of Adrian Newey to push the boundaries as he did whilst at Williams where his cars were miles ahead, sometimes literally) and a tarnished image, just look at this current scandal, accusations re Mclaren, retractions re Mclaren (these by a Mosley crony and senior FIA official), just look at the fine imposed on Mclaren last year in a case that would not stand up in any normal legal setting and then the continued chasing of the team until they wrote their letter (being a little careful what I say – OK Ed).

There are some articulate clever, knowledgeable people contributing to this blog with most making a number of valid points and it is noticeable how studies most contributions are I hope those at the FIA (those that are not corruption any way) see them as it reflects most people’s views at whatever level one uninterested in F1.

[Koj Finland]

I have been reading a number of F1 related websites this afternoon and read the Autosport article where I picked up Mosley saying, 'to do so would be to abandon core elements of the FIA's patrimony including, for example, our ability to protect the traditional grands prix.
I later read the article on Pitpass at http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=34830
Putting two and two together could Mosley be making a plea for the English based F1 teams to support him for the sake of the British Grand Prix?
I am surprised I have seen no other comments regarding this so maybe I have it wrong.
Anyway with two drivers in F1 I think we should have a Grand Prix in Finland.

[Verbal]

JO J
Max has to a large extent done a good job of running the FIA however
I want Max out purley because of his embarrassing deviations, like my Dad always says "we all drop our pants (several times a day) but you dont do it in public" and the alleged Nazi conotation makes this more than just a misdemeanour, it makes one wonder what kind person he is. This is far worse than the Lewinski case two concerting adults in close proximity led astray by their emotions. This is deplorable, prostitution, acute racisim. No doubt other people will see this as an opportunity and maybe the newspaper shouldnt have been stalking him but thats a different matter.

"the mutilated corpse was only found by a burglar" is no defence for a muderer and I put it to you JJ, if this was your father would you be proud, would you say "its Ok dady cos thats your private life" ?
answer this and you may just begin to understand why there people, unbiased who just prefer a little dignity.

F1-Insider I fail to understand your discontent with private teams
explain to me, whats wrong with Williams,Red bull, force india and Mclaren. You do realise even your beloved Maca is private owned ?
Now F1-I, lets not use the Mclaren saga to try and get Max out (because that one will back fire), we've already agreed he should go. The Mclaren fine was well deserved if you want to argue that one out, I still have all the transcripts and ask yourself this - If Ron knew nothing why is "Colghan ???" to this day still employed by Mclaren?
The affidavit signed by all the mechanics was in December with-drawn along with an apology for misleading the court.

[Verbal]

F1-Insider, Yes F1 is and should remain the pinacle of motorsport but at thee same time this is where things start to get complicated you see the manufactures are in this sport to make money costs have to be controlled like in any other business.
More of the F1 revenue should go back to the teams and I see Ecclestones involvement rather as a conflict of interest further more the 100 yr deal is simply madness.
Having said that There is a real need for a governing body, it is perhaps because of the FIA that F1 is better today. The is an inevitable need for a mediator between the teams, to control the rules, promote/address the issuies of the day (safety, sustainable energy, costs) without bias and obviously the body (FIA) has to be financed some how.

[Anon]

Formula One degenerates into hide and seek.

[JO J]

Verbal - MM did not do his stuff in public.
Would I like it if I found out that a member of my family enjoyed bizarre sex?
First of all I would do my best to avoid hearing what they got up to and not stoop to accepting the news from the curtain twitcher over the road.
But no, I would be embarrassed.
If it involved only consenting adults, I would learn to live with it.
Millions of outwardly regular people enjoy a sex life which to many others might be considered strange.
Although some deviations may indicate such people have "issues" it does not mean they are un-fit for society or employment.
As long as a person conducts their sex in private with consenting adults then in my opinion - anything goes.
I do not see consenting adult sexual deviancy as a threat to society which needs to be rooted out by any and all methods.
Conversely, if I discovered that a member of my family had been spying on or trading in covertly made films of people having sex in private, I would probably never speak to them again.
It is spies, sneaks and snoops who are the real danger to freedom and the cohesiveness of society.
Consider how all totalitarian regimes - religious and political - function. By fear and intimidation.
It is the people behind this so called "expose" who are the real criminals; it is they who have brought your supposedly morally pure sport into disrepute; it is they who should be publically humiliated and who have embarrassed us all; it is they who should be banned from race tracks.
Listen, a couple or group of consenting adult human beings have sex in private. What they get up to is quiet simply no-one else's business.

[Gary M]

JO J,

On the privacy issue I doubt anybody disagrees with you. Of course we all have a right to a private life.

But we also have to protect that right ourselves, I draw my bedroom curtains at night and stick to the privacy of my own home. Mr Mosley decided to take his fun outside his private home and risked everything by consorting with 5 prostitutes, some of whom were strangers, one of whom is married to an MI5 agent!! (more on that in a next post).

It is as much our own responsibility to protect our privacy as it is the News Of The World's. If I decide to leave my curtains open tonight I can hardly complain of invasion of privacy if people can see me through my window. Mosley opened his own curtains, I have no pity for him and do not understand why you do. Privacy is not a right that we can expect regardless of our own actions, Privacy is a right we need to protect ourselves. Just like any of us would, Mosley must of known what the consequences of his actions would lead to but arrogance certainly does make people act stupidly.

But again, the only thing that concerns us is the fact he has been left totally unable to do his job at a time when the sport needs leadership. This and only this is why we are calling for him to go. If you want to change this then you are wasting time on the privacy arguments you should instead be persuading the head of states of the F1 host countries to not be too embarrassed to meet with him.

This is why he has to go, not because of his sex life. But you have been told this time and time again and yet still persist in getting the wrong end of the stick.

[Gary M]

So, it seems that one of the prostitutes who was in on the spanking sessions with Max Mosley was in fact married to an MI5 agent. How incredibly weird is this story?

The MI5 are of course saying that they had no involvement with the sting that caught Mosley and have sacked the agent in question.*

So that leaves us with 2 possible choices:

A - MI5 are so useless that they actually missed that fact one of their agents was married to a prostitute, and at that one who was paid to have sex with the son of Britains most notorious supporter and friend of the Nazi leadership during the war. (I think most people know this but in case you never Mosley's mum and dad were actually married in the house of Joseph Goebbels and in the presence of Adolf Hitler no less!)

or

B - Sacking the agent is just a cover-up for what was indeed an MI5 operation.

To be honest I am not really sure which answer would make me feel safer!

*JO J, I hope we are going to hear you condemning MI5 for daring to sack someone just because their wife was a prostitute? Surely your privacy stance extends to employees of the secret service and their families? After all how can someone be sacked for something their wife did in "private"?

[Weasel]

Yet again Jo J's comments have nothing to do with the FIA and it's potential implosion, the inability of Maxiavelli to carry on his function and the far greater spinoff of the schism that threatens to blow the motorsports world apart, or any thing other than moral outrage about sexual privacy. The privacy issue is sooo April 2008.

Jo J get over your moral indignation and post something relevant to what is happening - not another liberal rant about the wrongs of the world - these tirades are getting really, really boring.

These blogs are about Formula 1 and the matters that affect the sport - it is not clear to many of us that you have actually grasped that concept.

[Stelmara]

Excellent article in today’s Telegraph, see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/05/18/smstew118.xml
Nothing changes with today’s news does it, Mosley is still known to many as spanker, spanky, pervey, pervert and S&M to name a few and always will be as it is now known that is what he is.
I am interested in how his.... partner Ecclestone is going to react to the spanker Mosley hinting that he was or maybe was involved, I have seen no news of it yet. Surely he will have to react or are the journalists too weary to approach him to ask for his reaction in person? What is absolutely certain is that the two know of each other secrets, be they good or not so good and on the face of it Mosley looks like he has little left to loose and doesn’t even live in the UK whereas the opposite is the case with Mr Ecclestone.
On top of all this we still have the FIA v News International case to look forward to, there must be more to come our about the way the FIA (Mosley and Ecclestone) have run F1 in recent years. I for one am on Martin Brundell’s side.
If as Stewart and a few others have suggested tat Mosley wins the vote he will then be in the dock in the FIA v News International case and I am just wondering if any of what he says to the 220 delegates will be contradicted when he is asked questions under oath by leading council because however clever he is there is always someone cleverer unless spanker Mosley is the world’s cleverest man!
Must get a life too much time reading about F1.

[F1-Insider]

Hi Verbal
I am not against privateers. I am against insufficiently funded privateers, there is a huge difference between the two. I have seen so many poorly funded teams leave F1 and I believe this is bad for the sport.
Force India will be OK so long as their owner stays interested (Midland's didn't did he and he was a billionaire that can be the trouble with very rich men or women just in case a liberal attacks me;).
I can think of a number of manufactures that should be F1, VW, Europe's largest is an obvious but so are a number of others.
Re Force India, I would not be at all surprised to see them tie up with Tata - Jaguar in the not to distant future making them a real Indian team.
What I am saying (maybe badly) is that the real costs on modern F1 are way higher than they used to be and is not only viable to either the major manufactures (or those with huge investors like, say Aston Martin) or unexceptionally well funded privateers.
Williams are proof that a well funded privateer team can survive in today's F1 though even Frank Williams will acknowledge that it may have been better for them if they had stayed with BMW and given his time with them again he would have done things a little differently.
There a number of global brands that could easy run their own teams on a par and more so with the likes of Red Bull - how about a Pepsi or a Coca Cola F1 team for example. I believe in the F1 environment were right the likes of the would look seriously at F1. There are many others examples I could give.

The FIA give nothing to F1 and in my view F1 is really owned by the teams and not the F1. When you think F1 do you or anyone else think FIA or do you and others think, Williams, Mclaren. Ferrari and so on?
If F1 do break away we may well see this tested in a court of law (trust me that if the teams get serious about breaking away the FIA will bend over backwards to keep them.
Is English club football better or worse now the old first division is the premiership? Most around the world acknowledge the premiership as the best there is.
As I see it the only thing holding F1 looking after themselves (or being serious enough about it to get concessions from the FIA is Ferrari as the current set-up favours them over the other teams and this is fundamentally wrong, no one team should receive better treatment or money than another, other than prize money).

--------------

Re Mosley, there is an excellent article in today's Telegraph which may be of interest, see

[JO J]

Gary M -
You say that what is done in the bedroom is no one else's business. I agree.
I'm glad you accept that a man acting out his sexual fantasies with consenting adults in private is not grounds for removing him from office.
However, I don't agree with your premise that because MM employed prostitutes he was also accepting that footage of the event might be published on the www.
If it was in the public interest (and I'm not sure it is), would it not have been sufficient to photograph him entering and leaving the establishment?
Why the graphic detail? Why publish footage on the world-wide-web of him having sex?
Surely that is crossing a line?
Is that not voyeuristic pornography?
Two wrongs do not make a right.
Then you go on to say that because of all this he is unable to do his job.
If we were big enough, we might say that we refuse to be influenced by such shoddy journalism.
We might say that yes, he's a dirty old man but if we accept such invasions of privacy as grounds for removing someone from office then aren't we at the same time accepting something far more unacceptable?
If he is unable to do his job it is only because we have decided to pretend to be shocked.
We have decided that an individual man's sexual fantasies are more dangerous than spying.
More dangerous than publication on the www of what was (whatever you say to the contrary) considered to be a private sexual encounter.
And I'm sorry I just cannot accept that.
You are punishing MM for something you would know nothing about without the gross invasion of privacy and subsequent publication of the footage.
So I ask you as a citizen lucky enough to live in a free country to ignore that disgustingly obtained and revoltingly published footage.
With regard to your point about MI5, I don't suppose the person was sacked on the grounds of moral outrage but rather for breach of security.

[KOJ Finland]

Hello again
A must read for any fan of formula 1; http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=34842

Things like this do not happen in Finland

[KOJ Finland]

Hello again
just discovered link to a pdf copy of Mosley's letter; http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/77511625__mm_letter_gb.pdf

[Verbal]

JO J you are being overly simplistic about this one let me try break it down for you.

1.Max did it in public, its a prostitutes den, everyone is welcome at any time , to most people that spells PUBLIC
2.This is not simply about sex, if this story had been Max is court having an affair with the woman from the corner shop people might be more forgiving
3.There are valid citizens out there who believe a married man should be failthful, they are also allowed to stick to their values
4.What makes this story really dark is the prostitution and the alleged Nazi side.
5. You may be proud of a family member doing this sort of thing but it looks like Max's wife, children and friends are offended and emberrassed, endulge me, what would you tell them right now, that its alright and perfectly normal ?

Maybe..just maybe you are right but unfortunatley the majority feel their values have been breached... they dont like what they've learned and democracy = majority rule.

[Carleton Twitchell]

Mi5,Max and Monaco... then the big pow-wow for the FIA .. all those Brasseries in the Tuilleries ..the secret vote...thumbs up or thumbs down ( remember Ben Hur or was it Gladiator?:).
Then a few days to count and recount, kind of like Zimbabwe again... no coups here though ..or maybe ..remember the Committee who divvies up the $100 mill ..theres a spot at that trough at stake.Influence Max called it.
So then comes Canada ..in French-speaking Montreal...a good place to announce Jean Todt as the new President-elect...or wait til France on the 22nd Juin and really have a knees-up,especially since he only 'left' Ferrari recently and probably still has his favourite Lazy-Boy there..
So who does the spare seat on the Committee go to? MMmmmmm...Ed! Yes , lets take a vote on it! (bung us $1000 an' yer in mate!)
Princess Grace,Lancias,The Casino,yachts,Cooper-Maseratis,oily rags,the smells,Graham Hills moustache,the Armco,Brazilian flags flying from windows,scooters...
Ahhhhhhhhh.......now lets list our top Ten Planets and remember you dont have to base your picks on size, distance from the Sun or other boring factual criteria...
See you all at the Super-Aguri boot-sale?

[D]

^
There is no point in disputing things with "Jo J" and I wish everyone would just ignore him/her entirely from now on.

Every time somebody replies to him/her the result is that he/she uses it as an excuse to post more stuff on here that just irritates us and for which - as a someone who professes to have no interest in motor racing whatsoever - he/she is very probably being paid by the posting.

Just be grateful that you do not, as he/she does, live in a family in which hiring women in order to thrash them is called "having sex".

That should make you realise just what a sad person this "Jo J" is.

[Adrian Sebborn]

Could it be that Max has provided us with an alternative as to who might have had incentive to see him brought down. He claims that he is the only person who can negotiate a deal with CRM to prevent Bernie Ecclestone from having total control. Seems to me that, if this is true, Bernie had much more reason to want Max brought down than just about anybody else. That 100 year rights deal is worth billions.

Interesting to see that one of the hookers had links to MI-5 after Max himself claimed to have information from the British security forces to the effect that he was set up. Both sides of that story need some serious investigation.

I still say that the best thing that could happen for fans, the teams and the manufacturers would be for Max to survive the vote and then have the major auto clubs form withdraw from the FIA and form their own group as the Americans have threatened to do. It might take a while for a replacement for F1 (any suggestions on what to call it ?) to be set up but if the teams got more out of the commercial rights, maybe there wouldn't be so many problems with costs.

[Kormak]

Dear Ed if "Mosley is too embarrassing for Monte Carlo as well" then you are embarrasing for Motor Racing Correspondents too.

[Kormak]

Ok D, but be carefull, everybody can be filmed by an MI5 family member and then be publisehd legally....

Freedom in UK.... where is it?

[JO J]

D. Your resorting to personal insults is rather tiresome and exposes your inability to mount a credible response to my main point which is that obtaining footage of individuals having sex (yes buddy, that's what's going on) in private and posting the same on the www without consent is a far greater immorality and corrosive crime than individuals indulging in s&m sex.
I accept that the matter would be viewed very differently in the totalitarian sharia state you want to live in but fortunatley I don't live in a theocracy and so I consider personal freedom and the right to a private life (and yes, that might include indulging in bizzare sex with consenting adults) without the interference of busy-body psuedo-moralisers as rather important.

[Verbal]

D - thumbs up re-your last post, very funny too

[old danes]

I'm with Jo J

[El Ponso]

JO J.
Don't try to reason with all this lot.
You are just talking about two different things:
Sexual freedom in your private live (which you defend rightly) and
POLITICS.
Anything is allowed in politics in order to eliminate an opponent.
On this day and age you simply cannot gun down your enemies like in the old days (although some still try it) so you resort to any possible means to undermine them.
Whether it's sex, alcohol, drugs or even money, (as long it's not money earned in joint ventures).
For a number of reasons Mosley is a hated bloke and some people are just delighted to butcher him.
But if he were a popular guy these same hordes that are screaming for his blood would then be shouting rape!
Could you imagine what explanations would they offer if one of them was cought with his pants down... Of course not.
Anyway, this is the age of Big Brother...
Regards (and watch out!)

El Ponso.

[L]

Jo J Why are you painting Mosley as an innocent man?
Why don't you spare a thought for his poor wife and children?
Even if he wasn't in the public eye with a high profile job what he did was disgraceful.
You're acting like he was free and single to do what he wanted, he wasn't.

[Dave Deacon]

The fact that Mosley is still in his job says very much where F1 is at... In any half decent organisation, he would have resigned at once or been sacked. F1 needs a clean out at the top - the head lice need to go. Then the rot further down can be eliminated.

[Laura]

I think everyone can do everything he wants but when he are not hurting to anyone. If he want to have a orgy and the others parts agree with him, there aren't nothing bad in it, but he is a public person and he know that some jornalist are looking for anything in his rubbish and they found him doing that, it is not fair but this is the price of the fame. I disagree with this, because i think anyone must have privacy with his/her life and probably this girls didn't want to be public image. These girls are not guilty and are not millionaire like Max Mosley. Do you really think that a millionaire people that don't need money is going to having sex with this awful and disgusting old man, Max Mosley??.

Public people have to have privacy, at least in the relating family problems and scandals like that, it is too embarrasing and this person have to demostrate that he is good in his job, not if he can or want have sex with several girls and boys in a night. I think.