The official line from Martin Whitmarsh

Here are some excerpts from the official McLaren debrief of the German Grand Prix, featuring an interview with Martin Whitmarsh. There is some interesting stuff here on the decision not to pit Lewis under the safety car and the moment when Heikki made way for Lewis in the closing stages.

On Sunday afternoon, the team admitted it made a strategic error in keeping Lewis out during the Safety Car period – but what was your rationale for doing that in the heat of the moment?
"Generally speaking, when you are leading a grand prix and showing good pace, you are more risk-averse than those behind you. The first stint of the race clearly showed we had an inherent performance advantage over the rest of the field – so much so, in fact, that we felt comfortable about bringing Lewis in early for his first pitstop and fuelling him long for his second stint. When the Safety Car was deployed, we evaluated the options and felt that keeping Lewis out and running low-fuel on a clear track outweighed the potential difficulties of pitting him; which could have dropped him down the pack and would also have penalised Heikki, who would have been forced to queue in the pitlane behind Lewis. We were also affected by a number of contributing factors that we couldn’t have foreseen when we made the call. Firstly, the Safety Car stayed out for longer than we had anticipated, which meant the number of laps available for Lewis to pull out an advantage was reduced. Secondly, more cars pitted than we expected – this meant there was less traffic between Lewis and Felipe after the Safety Car came in. Finally, we felt Lewis would have an advantage running on low-fuel with used tyres; in fact, the track evolution shifted to give greater benefit to cars fuelled heavily. That made his job harder."

Is there now a need to re-evaluate how McLaren makes these strategic decisions?
"If you’re a leading team and you get it wrong then you’re going to face criticism. But hindsight is always 20:20 and we feel we made the right decisions based on the tough choices available to us. Don’t forget, too, that it was less clear-cut for Lewis because we had fuelled him longer than the other cars at his first pitstop. We had a bigger fuel window than the other teams, who were much closer to their second pitstop when the Safety Car was deployed. Therefore, it was a much easier call for them than it was for us. And I’m sure the decision for Ferrari was far more straightforward: they probably weren’t going to beat us. And if the tables had been turned, we’d doubtless have faced criticism if Massa had stayed out, jumped us and then capitalised on his advantage with a late splash-and-dash to the finish. But let’s not forget that Nick Heidfeld made the strategy work, staying out under the Safety Car and finishing fourth – so the strategy remained a valid one."

There has been some confusion about the way Lewis passed Heikki in the closing stages of the race – can you clarify exactly what happened?
"The reality in that particular situation was that Lewis was quicker than Heikki on the day. When Lewis came up behind him, Heikki was sporting enough to move over – even though it must have been an incredibly difficult decision for him to make in the cockpit. We’re grateful for Heikki for showing the strength of character and sportsmanship to make that sacrifice – we’re all aware how tough it must have been."

Comments

[ALLMAN]

Kovalainen letting Hamilton overtake him was the most pathetic manouver I've since in F1 since Barrichello let M. Schumacher win the 2002 Austrian GP, but I guess that is the kind of thing you can expect from a team like McLaren.

Considering the kind of moralist person you are Mr. Gorman I expect some ferocius critics from you regarding those team orders *cough* that racing incident, but I guess that was expecting too much.....

[Louis]

Thanks for mentioning the fact that the team didn't know if Ferrari was going to pit both cars; Hamilton was ahead, the cars behind him can react to McLaren's decision, but McLaren had to make the first decision and can only then see what Ferrari does. Luckily with his speed it all worked out fine, at first I thought he was just going to kick Massa's *** and settle for second and championship lead, but he had so much speed it was no problem to get Piquet as well!

[Gary M]

Cheers Ed, interesting stuff.

@ ALLMAN

You know the rules, If you insist on writing while under the influence of something mind altering make sure you bring enough for everyone.

It is just like in class with the sweets.

I hope for your sake you are joking, but if you are serious may I suggest some reading material that you and other may wish to read...

http://www.amazon.com/formula-Racing-Dummies-Jonathan-Noble/dp/0764570153

@ All the Paranoidosa

Another interesting quote from Whitmarsh...

"..would also have penalised Heikki, who would have been forced to queue in the pitlane behind Lewis.."

mmm,,, How does that fit in with the Paranoidosa's theory that Lewis is number 1 and strategy is arranged around him only. That quote does not sound like that is the case to me.

That actually sounds like McLaren place a lot of importance in ensuring that Heikki gets an equal treatment from the team.

Unless of course Alan Whitmarsh is lying to us all to cover up his tracks. Yes, I guess that would your answer.

[BWS]

I don't blame them for leaving Lewis out. Remember a few weeks back, on a crowded pit road in Canada?

It's safer up front.

[Marilyn]

To be honest, I don't why people keep going on about Heikki letting Lewis through. Heikki was slow, Lewis was faster end of. Move on, Lewis won, if some people can't deal with that, then too bad. It won't be the last time that Lewis will win, so just get use to it.

[T Webb]

I don't know whether you are aware that FIA is conducting tests/checks on Lewis's Hamilton engine. See last page of this FIA report.

http://www.fia.com/germanygp/documents/GER_08_Race_Report.pdf

At present, F1 engines are designed to support two races. Factory tests are not capable of simulating accurately G forces, the characteristics of air flow and refrigeration, not even the vibrations created by the surface of the asphalt. We engineers receive important information from telemetrics (on various engine components). In this respect, bidirectional telemetrics is used to maximize engine reliability, allowing the team to modify the RPM range that can be used (nevertheless let's not forget that the use of bidirectional telemetrics from the pit-lane to the car is absolutely prohibited).

And this is something that FIA engineers will be carefully checking (any evidence of illegal rpm enhancement).

[Weasel]

"Heikki moved over - incredibly difficult situation" - and just what was that little light, when RD pushed a button right at that juncture, shown very clearly on the broadcast?

[Jon T]

@Weasel et al

From what I remember it said "Pit wall", probably asking Heikki's race engineers to point out to him that Lewis was behind him and lapping faster and that, as a team mate, it would be unfair of him to ruin his race strategy by holding him up.

For the second time, allowing your faster team mate to pass you is not against the rules! The 2008 F1 FIA sporting regulations Article 39.1 simply states, and I quote, "Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited."

Fairly open interpretation but let's not fool ourselves here, much as many people seem keen to for the sake of blasting Lewis. Lewis was going to pass Heikki anyway, it was just a matter of when. If Heikki deliberately held him up to achieve one place higher finish, what would that do? The drivers are paid to support the TEAM, not their individual results. For the sake of peace, let's just pretend the whole "Lewis is an egomaniac he ruined Fernando's season through his ego/vice versa/OMGROFLS" rubbish I'm inviting by saying that and focus on team orders in an ideal world. If you had a choice between 1st+5th and 4th+5th, which result would you prefer your TEAM to score? You know, constructors points, money, glory etc?

Article 39.1 came because Ferrari were due for a 1-2 and deliberately ordered the FASTER driver to slow down and hand victory to the SLOWER driver that day creating a 2-1 finish. Not "stop racing each other, you're going to crash" or "stop ruining your teammate's race strategies" but "we want your teammate to win even though he's slower". It makes a mockery of the betting market and makes betting on a winner pointless if they can just rig it so the slower driver wins, hence why it's considered unsporting and against the rules.

The Ferrari situation that gave rise to this regulation is an example of unsporting team orders. BMW at Canada this year is an example of the slower driver allowing the faster team mate past that, mysteriously, drew no criticism compared to this. It's funny how when it's Lewis rather than Robert it colours some people's judgement of identical situations.

Can we please look at something else and just accept that Lewis beat his teammate and the rest of the field this time? Ferrari were just poor, there's no other excuse. Of course, the questionable legality of McLaren's engine map paddles on the wheel is another matter but it's down to interpretation of the regulations and, well, I'm not Charlie Whiting. The cynics would say if Ferrari can't copy it, it will be banned.

Will it breach the regulations and disqualify this result and risk a backlash after Raikonnen's win with an "illegal" car last year? Will Ferrari bend the FIA to their will again? Will it come down to the precise wording of "power" versus "torque" in the technical regulations?

After the mass damper fiasco the other year, I think this one could well blow up and decide the title if it generates enough noise, or it could just be another innovation that everyone else copies to catch up with McLaren's cunning but risky interpretation of the rules.

Either way, it would be wise to look at the past and remember Honda's exclusion and 3-race ban for trying to gain an advantage through "interpretation" of the rules. I'll be interested to see how this one plays out.

[MCLAREN THE MOST HYPOCRITICAL TEAM IN F1]

"...Heikki was sporting enough to move over"

What is sporting about that?

If Liverpool FC let Chelsea score a few goals because they play better, is that sporting too?

@ Gary
You are out of touch man. People don’t question if the pussycat boyfriend is number one in maclaren anymore, now the question is: Is he the prince or the King of Mclaren?:

"Such are the pleasures of life for Hamilton, who now rules McLaren like a young prince ...like him, believe that it is his destiny not only to win the world championship this year, but for many years hence..." Ed Gorman.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article4369390.ece

I hope, for your own sake, you read the following. It will give you some understanding of your condition.

http://recorta.com/174e2d

[jordi]

Please T WEBB:
Could you elaborate a bit more on that.
Are you implying that there is suspicion of illegal rpm enhancement?
Please remember that not everybody is an engineer here.
Thank you.

[todd]

everyone relax about hekki, he's a good guy and he did a good thing without force, don't forget, he's in a TEAM, working as a TEAM, for the TEAM, if my kart is under performing i let my teammate through and we don't have audio to discuss it.

as much as a ferrari fan and anti mclaren person that i am, don't forget that kimi let massa through in france, massa like hamilton was 1second a lap faster, but kimi didn't have to let him through, kimi still had pace.

overall its minor and pointless to discuss...

what i do find interesting however is the 'manual traction control' that hamilton is using, and the clear advantage it gives him over everyone else in the field, especially in the wet - which leaves me to say that he's still nothing overall special, he's just another driver but in a fast car.

his silverstone performance isn't all that great now that you know he had traction control, nor the last win, it's easy to grab a second a lap when you have traction control.

also, furthering what T Webb said about the FIA and the German Race Report

"The engine of car number 22 is kept sealed in order to carry out further checks according to Article 5 of the 2008 FIA Formula One Technical Regulations. These checks will be done before the Hungarian GP."

This is not a standard check, this if the first time they have kept an engine all year.

[Bog]

@Jordi

I believe T Webb is refering to the issue of the 2 additional pedals on the steering wheel which Lewis used to obtain a manual form of traction control for slow corners.

Read this:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/07/21/mclarens-technical-innovations-have-put-the-mp423-ahead-of-the-pack/

[Gary M]

@ MCLAREN THE MOST HYPOCRITICAL TEAM IN F1.

You have got no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I am a fan of is F1, full stop. I am not even English, I have no patriotic reasons to support Lewis Hamilton or McLaren.

I always have a favorite driver of the moment of course, it makes F1 more fun if I am rooting for a particular team or driver and have always had a preference for McLaren for some reason or other.

But I can certainly remember cheering very loudly for Fernando Alonso during his first World Championship win and was as pleased as anyone in Spain to see him do it at the expense of Schumacher. I loved Eddie Magic Irvine and Rubens while they were at Jordan.

So you can call me all the names in the world it does not matter. I am a fan of F1 and have been for many years, I do not need some idiot on a message board to tell me what i am quite capable of understanding myself.

Your signature quite clearly indicates how impartial you are on any subject being discussed on this board and therefore you opinion will never be taken seriously by anyone other that paranoid fanatics of Fernando Alonso with delusional claims of unfair practices by McLaren.

Do you not realise how bloody boring it is all getting?

[Bradley Lord]

The point here is surely that 39.1 of the Sporting Regs was a rule deemed necessary in the aftermath of Austria 2002, but left vague enough to only be applicable in circumstances where it's deemed fit. It also runs contrary to much of the spirit and history of F1, in which teams were free to decide the finishing order of their cars.

What's interesting is all this fuss now - when these moves have already happened numerous times this year.

Think Kubica passing Heidfeld in Canada...

Think Hamilton passing Kovalainen in France...

Think Alonso passing Piquet in Silverstone...

This happens and it's part of racing. The important thing is that it's portrayed as the driver's individual decision (hence all the talk of wonderful sportsmanship) rather than an instruction from the team. And McLaren seem to have done that satisfactorily.

As for the test of Hamilton's engine, it's a completely standard procedure that occurs at random (so that teams cannot cheat...)

[Derek Smith]

I can't help thiking that the McLaren paddles will cause no problems. Ferrari have invited all the teams to Marenllo to come up with an agreement before meeting with Max Rufus Mosley. See: http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080722193926.shtml

Steven Sunday's comment would appear to be a confession that Ferrari under Todt thought of the team only and not F1.

Even as someone gullible enough to believe in Area 52 and the American Moon landings, I can't see this being a long term change. However, if they are sincere, then a challenge of a purely technical nature against the McLaren paddles would be inopportune.

It is also interesting as it is a criticism of Todt, the crown president, and by Ferrari.

Is it also a sign that Ferrari and distancing themselves from MRM?

[Victor.]

FA took the good decision leaving ML last year. As he said: "I would never win the championship in ML, because they do not want me to win it". Fernando has more chances even in Force India than in ML. LH has and had a preferencial treat in ML and was, is and will be the team nr 1.
FA was investigated several times last year (even penalised in Hungary) for team orders. Nothing happens now with HK behaviour? we have two competitors less for LH for the champioship this year: FA in his clio and HK with his trousers down.

[Jacob]

Jordi - get a grip. The FIA randomnly test engines after all races.

Lewis won. Get over it.

Fernando didn't. Get over it.

This is going to happen for the foreseable. If you can't handle it, watch a different sport (Tiddlywinks?)

[McLaren most sporting team in F1]

T Webb
Looks like spanker will do anything to try and get one over on McLaren.
Same bloke who signed all the reports you refer was the same man who advised of the illegal temperature fuel used by a number of teams in Brazil, where had the FIA done the right thing they would have been disqualified and Hamilton would have been champion.
Does anyone see a Ferrari hand anywhere (one never knows any more as everything may be tainted by spanker's friends and enemies)?
Old spanker must be hating, really hating seeing McLaren and Hamilton blowing the field away two races in a row - shame, poor spanker, diddums.

Have others noticed how a certain McLaren hater uses two names on this blog? It's getting tiresome - sad, very sad.

[McLaren most sporting team in F1]

Gary M
Well said mate.

Derek Smith
Some people just hate McLaren and will stop at nothing to denigrate them. It really is getting boring, maybe they are just school kids or something.

Remember that had McLaren's - fully legal - kers system not been banned by the spanker all teams would now have developed systems and we would be several years on from where we are today.
I hope. for the good of F1 that Ferrari can and do find a way of accepting other teams innovations and embracing them as none of us want the engineers limited any more than they already are, let's see more not less innovation.
If the spanker can get his foe again he will and it's up to the other teams and us, the fans to stop it, let's go racing.
Hamilton's a winner lalala lalala

[Jacob]

@McLaren most sporting team in F1

You're right, those teams in Brazil should have been disqualified. If it had been a Ferrari driver instead of a McLaren who would have (rightly) benefited, I'd bet my house they would have been disqualified.

Even though Lewis and McLaren arguably threw away the WC last year at the end with a series of unbelievably stupid mistakes, Lewis should still have been WC as those teams broke the rules and should have been dis-qualified.

This year when Lewis takes the WC it'll be even sweeter because he'll know that even with Spanker trying to bend the rules against McL, he still won.

[RichyS]

Well said Jon T.

This forum would be a better place if all those who let personal animosity get in the way of the facts would just bugger off to someone else's playground.

Frankly it's getting tiresome, and increasingly difficult to find the errudite and thought-provoking comments in amongst the ill-informed bile.

[McLaren most sporting team in F1]

Jacob
Thanks, maybe when the spanker's gone F1 will all be less suspect.
Think about this: how do we know that any big advantages that McLaren have is not whispered in the ear of other teams and one in particular? I see that the FIA say the tests on the McLaren engine will be concluded before Hungary, would they test any other teams engine in the same way? I don't think so.
I hope when they see all is above board they make a loud noise about it (now who do we know that makes a loud noise)?

[F1-Insider]

Martin Whitmarsh gave a succinct appraisal of the considerations a F1 team needs to take on board with the current (ridiculous) safety car rules come into play during an F1 race. It should be remembered by the average fan that this is all in the heat of the moment, when pressure levels are at their highest.
McLaren did an excellent job in Germany, the more astute of you will also have noticed that McLaren brought Lewis in early for his first stop (ITV get a grip and try to look at more than just what you see), this was done for two reasons, reasons others in F1 will know about, never show your full hand unless you have to.
McLaren’s latest engineering solutions to the minor flaws in their current car are superb and at the very edge of current engineering technology (Colin Chapman would be proud) and should be applauded and not punished, though with the defective FIA anything can happen, it all depends on a certain flawed person’s whims at the time.
To see Hami race as he did in Silverstone was awesome and to see it again in Germany was a spectacle not often seen in today’s F1 and regardless to the silly comments being made about his overtaking of Hikee he was going to win that race and any other result would have been a disgrace to the current rules of F1 (they must do something about this, no points should be fluked in F1 as Renault achieved, it just makes a mockery of the points system – now who was responsible for introducing these rules in the first place?).

Derek
AS normal you speak sense, let’s hope there really can be a friendly rivalry between the two top guns, it may just happen now Todt is no more (can you believe some want his to replace Mosley?)

McLaren most sporting team in F1
Can’t argue with what you’re saying, sad but I fear all very true.

[todd]

come on guys, beating a dead horse here, mclaren AND ferrari drive 80% of the innovations in f1 almost equally.

no one is bending rules. 2 cars being disqualified, or not finishing or finishing doesn't mean much, he still lost on the track and he pitted 4 times! who does that?

not forgetting his races before brazil where he threw it away as well, hardly think he wanted to win on a technicality.

stop trying to blame ferrari for controlling the sport and rules, are you forgetting the spy scandal? mlcaren, pedro, alonso and engineers all knew and tested ferrari based setups. they had insider info on ferrari pit stops, fuel levels and more from the start of the season, ron dennis dobbed in ferrari for their 'flexible floor' which was insider information.

they are as bad as each other. ferrari get hit with as many penalties as any other team.

alonso was penalised in hungry for a what hamilton did, and it wasn't team orders, it was the team strategy, they cant pit 2 cars at the same time, so they all need to work as a team.

if you notice at all, massa and kimi alternate first pit stops. and they do it for the team, just like other teams.

no one is trying to bend rules right now.

however, the FIA has taken hamiltons engine for testing, and it isnt random, i've gone through the fia docs for every race this year and its the first time they have kept an engine.

they randomly test parts, aero, oils, engines, gears, weights etc at every prac, qual and race, before and after, but they don't take them to keep and test in a lab.

this could have an interesting outcome because no one outside of mclaren really know what's going on or what they are testing for.

it could be about the manual engine mapping, or some kind of extra rpm.

engine development is halted, they aren't allowed to develop the engines anymore as per the 2008 rules, so i suggest their fuels etc are giving them more power and the FIA are making sure the engine hasn't been evolved.

[todd]

@McLaren most sporting team in F1

what are you smoking?

oh also, i like mclarens new ferrari wings on their front pod, their new ferrari hub caps...

can't wait to see their new renault shark fin that they tested and their new ferrari front nose with the aero hole through it...

last year someone whispered all ferraris strategies for the races into ron's ear...

all the teams copy innovations, deal with it huh?

[Derek Smith]

The difference between team orders and team strategy is explained here:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59231

Whilst there is an argument, and one that has a lot of merit, against what McLaren did at Monaco last year, the explanation of the reasoning behind it is clear and, surprisingly for Ron, concise.

This quote is excellent:

"Team strategy is what you bring to bear to win a Grand Prix. Team orders is what you bring to bear to manipulate a Grand Prix."

As to LH's response: my lad was substituted in a rugby match and he showed his irritation by kicking over the coach's seat (while he was standing up I might add). My lad calmed himself and went up to his coach to apologise. He was told that if he ever showed pleasure at being replaced he'd be dropped from the team.

[Weasel]

@ Derek Smith

I think you mean Area 51, old boy.

@ Richys - my sentiments entirely which is why I think that these blogs are going downhill faster than a speeding Mclaren and need some serious moderation. As it is they seem to have become a kindergarten playground for venting personal animosity and are in danger of turning into a slangingfest. There is so much off topic (O/T) crap here - including this. It needs to be moderated to posts that are strictly on topic - so in that vein, Ed what's the latest dirt on SpankoMax???

[KoJ Finland]

Hello
I think there may be a new relationship between Ferrari and McLaren, by far the best two teams in F1 over a very long period. The difference now is Todt and Brawn (I really like Brawn but even he defended Schumi's cheating in Monaco which was and is unforgivable) have moved on and the new management maybe see F1 as a whole and are not just blinkered to Ferrari as Todt clearly was regardless to the effects on F1.
What is said by Todd is true, these two top teams have always been as bad as each other which is why I am still upset with the way the FIA and Max Mosley went after McLaren last year in the way they did.
I hope the FIA let the drivers, the engineers and the cars decide who wins and stop the politics but like a few others I do not think this will happen until there is a change at the top, he has already shown his contempt for what F1 fans, F1 teams, FIA clubs or the media think.

[Massa no1]

TODD

I am affraid Ferrari have copied McLaren when it comes to holes in noses!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/McLarenBruce19690801.jpg

I think this has been spotted previously.

Please lets not go back the debacle that was spygate but I can safely say that all the teams know exactly what stratagies each other will run on race day even ITV said the teams monitor exhaust notes etc and have a nearly 100% accurate reading of engine maps torques on corners and fuel levels etc. McLaren had info which all the other teams have everyweekend. It was one mans crusade and vendetta(Spanky)..

[A Prost]

Very interesting. McLaren (and Hamilton) could be running into trouble...again!!

Let's hope not. But read this article:

http://www.f1extremist.com/2008/07/22/fia-keeps-hamilton%E2%80%99s-engine-%E2%80%93-cheating/

[McLaren most sporting team in F1]

Massa no1
Well pointed out, an honest Ferrari F1 fan. The trouble with people like Todd they think they know it all - they don't!
Your comment on spanky just shows that there are many honest non bigoted Ferrari fans.
I too love F1, I support McLaren but will give credit when credit is due to other teams and other drivers.
In some ways the recent Todt years have not been good for Ferrari apart from the many trophy's as to many they lost their sporting heritage of the pre Todt era.
I hope they get it back and keep letting their drivers race each other as McLaren and Williams always have.
Ferrari need to remember that they are huge for the sport but they are not bigger than it (as I believe Todt thought), if they do this all the negatives towards them will fade.
Ferrari are a great, a fantastic team and I hope they put sport first in the future.
Don't know what's the matter with Kimi but something is, maybe it's his gorgeous wife.

[jordi]

Thank you A Prost, interesting indeed.

www.f1extremist.com: "...It’s a device for controlling traction, even though it’s manual, they are still controlling traction, which would explain why in the British GP they didn’t have traction problems, and why in the German GP they had next to no wheel spin or lack of traction, while others slipped the back end out from time to time"

I did ask just after Germany GP, where the hell was that second a lap coming from. Despite all the self-proclaimed experts that usually write in this blog, no one answered.

Believe me, the last thing I want is another F1 scandal, but ...I think we may see a few tears coming soon.

[Derek Smith]

One would assume that McLaren ran their paddles past the technical regs and the scrutineers before racing with it. If it is subsequently banned then this would not be a case like the ferrari floor which was a deliberate, and successful, attempt to circumvent the regulations. After the FiA's enquiry into the illegal floor ferrari were punished with the full might available to regulators - they were told to remove it but they could keep their points. If McLaren's paddles are banned then going by precedent, they should be able to keep their points.

Oh, look. There goes another pig flying past.

[Richard]

If the FIA decide to ban devices that manually control traction, does that mean they're going to do away with the accelerator pedal?

I haven't seen it stated anywhere that Heikki didn't have this device (I know he didn't run some of the bodywork changes that LH ran but that's a different issue), so how come he wasn't as fast as Lewis?

Could it be that Lewis was just plain quicker? No, I'm just being silly, that could never happen!

[jordi]

Lewis can be quicker than the rest, he has been quicker many times but I can not remember any race where he was almost a sec quicker during all race than everybody else. Mclaren and Ferrari had been very close in terms of times all season, until now. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

No doubts about Hamilton talent and skills, but he didn't get them overnight, did he?

[Marilyn]

I might be wrong, maybe someone could put me right. But why all the talk about the paddles now, have'nt Mclaren being using it from race one?

[todd]

i'm far from knowing it all, but i like an interesting debate on what's going on :)

@massa no1

wow never knew that! that's before my time!

also, agreed, massa will be no1 one day ;)

[todd]

@Marilyn

I think mostly because the FIA have their engine for testing now is why it's a topic, and because they are faster than ferrari.

@Derek Smith

Agreed, the FIA would have seen them already and have not done anything, even if they haven't and they do 'ban' the device, points should not be removed.

@McLaren most sporting team in F1

bah, not a bigoted ferrari fan, just didnt agree with you bashing ferrari over you being a mclaren fan! GO JENSON!

[Fred]

To Allman: It is obvious McLaren is lying and that Kovalainen was ordered to move out of the way but I would imagine that ALL teams would do that if the stakes were as high as those for McLaren and Ferrari. Incidentally, Ferrari did the same in Brazil last year when they ordered Massa to cede his first place to Raikkonen so the Finn could grab the World championship. He needed an outright win to score a one-point victory over Hamilton.

[Derek Smith]

Weasal,

So you've never heard of Area 52. Not many people have. It is only referred to by people like me, touch-typists. The things I could tell you about E = mc3.

[Gary M]

@ Fred, you really have to be joking surely?

I think you are.

You do know that Lewis passing HK on Sunday was nothing at all like Ferrari asking Massa to concede his first place to Raikkonen. In that case Massa was winning the race, on Sunday HK was going nowhere.

It is probably much more like the way Alonso got past Piquet at Silverstone is it not?

You do know that?

Surely you do.

[David Jones]

There seems to be a mixture of good comments and McLaren haters on this page. To see McLaren being accused of both telling untruths and cheating is out of order as there is no evidence of either and I'm surprised and disappointed that these comments are being published.
What's happened to the moderator?

[F1-Insider]

So Mosley wins £60,000. Now would someone please tell what difference that makes? Is he suddenly more fit to be the President of the FIA or not?

[Gordon]

I didnt think he was fit to be president of the FIA either before or after the NOTW story. Neither is the McLaren thing the issue. Problem is the sale of 100 years worth of TV rights to Bernie for a very low sum.

[Victor]

Then, ML is using a manual traction control. What is the difference? Manual is permitted and automatic or electronic forbidden?

[Javier]

Heikki letting Hamilton pass him is a team order. Not as Todt talking on the radio saying "Let pass michael for the championship" but in a briefing before the race, or anywhere. It´s fair, Lewis is fighting for the championship.
But it´s disgusting from the team principals to claim that they are different when they´re not.

[McCheets]

Note that Martin Whitmarsh did not comment on whether or not Heikki was acting under instruction.

McLaren is clearly F1's answer to New Labour!

Those moaning about attacks on McLaren here should note that this thread is specific to McLaren, and refers to the Lewis/Heikki manoeuvre.

[McCheets]

It is interesting to note that the carefully-worded comments from Whitmarsh, which Matt Bishop may have had a role in drafting, do not address whether or not Heikki was acting under instruction.

If there were no team orders, why didn’t Whitmarsh state that there were not?

McLaren is clearly the New Labour of F1.

Those moaning about postings related to this thread should note that it is specific to McLaren, and refers to the position swapping that took place between Lewis and Heikki.

[McCheets]

MCLAREN MOST SPORTING TEAM IN F1, JACOB et al

A Ferrari driver won the drivers' championship last year.

Get over it!

Can any true fan ever forget the hypocrisy of McLaren after the protest was lodged? A statement was released which was along the lines of, "We think it is wrong the championship should be decided in such a manner."

Clearly McLaren was putting the interests of F1 ahead of its own.

You should remember that the Williams and BMW conformed to the official tests required.

[McCheets]

DEREK SMITH

Here you go again with the Ferrari floorboard. You should be aware by now that both McLaren and Red Bull were also required to modify their designs.

[jordi]

What's happened to the moderator?
Posted by: David Jones

What's happened to freedom of speech?
Posted by: Jordi

[Gary M]

What's happened to freedom of speech?
Posted by: Jordi

No such thing Jordi, never has been.

With freedom comes responsibility, that is why we have libel laws, that is why there are laws to protect the innocent from hate filled accusations that are made up purely to hurt others.

[Tony]

Re. Lewis's engine please find below a quote from Autosport which states that the cheating theories are wrong and that ...

"The FIA has begun its annual routine random checks on all Formula One engines, with Mercedes-Benz the first manufacturer whose power unit will be examined.

Formula One's current regulations feature an engine freeze, which prevents manufacturers from making technical changes over the course of the season from the specification that is lodged with the FIA at the beginning of the year.

Part of the FIA's regulatory activities includes it conducting a random test on the engines of each of the six manufacturers, to check no modifications have been made.

That process began after Hockenheim, with Lewis Hamilton's engine being the first to be sealed by the FIA so its checks can be conducted. Inspection of other manufacturers' engines will take place over the remainder of the season.

Autosport.com understand that the engine checking process has begun a little later than normal this year because the FIA has introduced some more stringent testing apparatus into the procedure."

[Richard]

@TODD - 'This is not a standard check, this if the first time they have kept an engine all year'

Maybe this Autosport article will provide some much needed clarity about the workings of F1 to the uninformed:

'The FIA has begun its annual routine random checks on all Formula One engines, with Mercedes-Benz the first manufacturer whose power unit will be examined'

Here's the full article:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69428

[julie willnot]

Allman, as Barichello let Schumacher win in 2002 it must also be something you can expect from a team like Fiat (oops, ferrari) as well.

[Dean'o]

I think we are missing the point here that Lewis is commited to a fantastic McLaren team that appears (from the outside) to be looking after both drivers.

This is a team. In the same respect that MUFC is a team. You don't see Tevez not passing the ball because he does not want Ronaldo to score. In the same respect when Lewis is slower than Heiki then I'm sure he will oblige and move over.

I can't believe how savage people are to this team and it's drivers. Let what happened in the past remain there. People have been punished enough. It's time to move on.

The race on Sunday was fantastic. As a Lewis fan I loved it. So McLaren may have messed up. Did they mess up in Monaco? They are a great team. Not quite in Ferrari terms but at least somebody is standing up to the prancing horse. Not since the days of Damon Hill have we had somebody to root for in the same respect as Lewis.

Most of this negative stuff comes from media as well. If he wants to live in Monaco. Let him! I would to if it means earning a few million more quid. We all would deep down. Home is where the heart is. He and the team represent all of us!

So lets ride with the big dog! Bring it home Lewis & Ron & Heiki!

[McCheets]

RICHARD

Thanks for informing people of the link. The McMoaners and McVictims on this forum were once again trying to portray standard procedure as some sort of Mosley-inspired vendetta against McLaren.

[jlk]

@ Jordi
I like the stuff you put up as it leads to a fired up conversation. Even though I think some of it is a bit over the top, at least it shows passion for the sport even when "Magic" is an also-ran.
But if you could take a pause from your LH/McLaren bashing I would like to see your opinion on Nelsonho's finish ahead of Alonso.
JLK

[jlk]

BTW:
To all you fired up bloggers: if you want to see a REALLY good personal blog by an American with mega-F1 expertise go to
www.jde-thingsf1.blogspot.com. This guy is a close friend and has been a fanatic for years. His technical knowledge is the best I have seen in an amateur.
He is a McLaren fan but his analysis is well worth seeing.
JLK

[Peter]

JLK

Thanks for the advice, and I also urge a read of www.jde-thingsf1blogspot.com Well writen, sensible, articulate and well observed blog.

I also agree that it,s time for Jordi to latch on to someone else to denigrate, his attitude to Lewis and Mclaren is becoming boring and outdated.

[james]

"With freedom comes responsibility, that is why we have libel laws, that is why there are laws to protect the innocent from hate filled accusations that are made up purely to hurt others."

That's why me and Mosley are very grateful.
Cheers!

[SZ]

I think Heikki shouldn't have had to actually slow down and move over for Hamilton, that was hard to watch. Heikki is beyond a good teammate. He could have just "not" put up a huge fight on a overtaking move by Hamilton.
Perhaps Heikki could have risked getting pushed off of the racetrack by Hamilton though if he didn't slow down and let him pass.
In my opinion, Hamilton has been more of a bully than an aggressive driver while passing. No doubt that Ham was faster in Germany, and I know his passes were considered "clean," but compared to Kimi's passes...in that race, they looked more like "I will push you out of the way", then "I have the skills to pass".
Does anyone else feel this way?

[Richard]

@SZ - 'I think Heikki shouldn't have had to actually slow down and move over for Hamilton, that was hard to watch'

You're missing the point here - Heikki was driving the car, and it was he alone who chose how he was going to let Lewis through. The fact that he made it so obvious was done to show the world that he wasn't just overtaken fairly and squarely in a futile attempt to save face (futile because it was obvious that Lewis was so much quicker than he was).

He could just as easily have braked a little early going into a corner, leaving enough room for Lewis to safely dive down the inside. This would have looked like a genuine overtaking manoeuvre, but that would have done Heikki's reputation no good, so he chose to make it obvious.

Do you think he team would have got on the radio to Heikki to tell him to make the move look as blatant as possible? I don't think so.