Sorry, Lewis finishes third at Spa. I got that wrong...

I know you are all well ahead here. I'm always short of time on race days.

All I would say is that when I first saw the "Battle of the Bus Stop", I had a moment of anxiety about the speed with which Lewis went back on the offensive after conceding the place.

This was a heat of the moment stuff and a difficult decision for the stewards. It's easy to criticise them, but Ferrari had a case too. No doubt this is going to run and run. Although McLaren have said they intend to launch an appeal it is not certain whether it will be admissable.

Finally for now, I think we can all agree - whoever you support etc - that the last three or four laps of Spa this year were among the most exciting, most thrilling and invigorating we will ever see and Kimi played his part, just as Lewis did. I guess the championship is out of reach for the Iceman but he hardly drove like a man contemplating retirement did he? 

Comments

[Derek Smith]

Not my words but those of a friend. One experienced in racing.

"Check out this in-car footage on YouTube (that is, until Bernie's vampires have it taken down):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70rXr2Mkq_M

It shows clearly that, on the high-speed approach to the chicane, Hamilton was not "outbraking" himself into an unsustainable position. Indeed, if he hadn't take evasive action when Raikkonen braked early into the chicane, Hamilton would have run into the back of him.
Then one can see clearly that Hamilton's car is stable and established in the middle of the right-hand bend of the chicane when Raikkonen comes to the left towards him. At this point Hamilton sharply pulls his steering to the left - to avoid Raikkonen - and takes to the escape road in order to...escape!
There is every indication from this that Hamilton could have made it around the right-hander without a problem, except that Raikkonen forced him off the track."

[Anon]

Wow. Impressed to see you so calm about it, Mr. Gorman. Not much of the same can be said of the guys at planet F1 (who are holding a funeral for F1).

Big question for you though: what is the atmosphere in the paddock? How are the people reacting? Is there the same kind of feeling that there was during the time of the spy scandal?

McLaren's appeal- I don't think it'll go through. I read the statements from RD and NH and both of them actually seem to give in. They talk about the race and accord like a sentence each to the penalty. I don't think they believe in i and that if they had come out roaring it would have been different.

Also: McLaren say Lewis was slower in the start-finish line. OK, that would make you think he slowed down to let Kimi through. But then again, he could simply have been slowed down by running over the kerbs/grass, and simply by not being on track.

[Richard]

Ed- what's wrong with going back on the offensive so quickly? A racing driver needs to take advantage when opportunities are presented to him, not wait until the opportunity passes. LH had far more grip than KR, as evidenced by the speed with which he closed the gap leading up to the incident. He did the right thing by trying to pass as soon as possible.

LH had the choice of crashing or driving across the chicane. He chose the latter, but to play it safe, he let KR back through, as has been the customary acceptable response under the circustances for many years. How could he have maintained his momentum if he let KR back through? If he was close enough to get alongside KR before the chicane, and was behind him after it and was going more slowly, where's the advantage?

The simple fact is, LH had far more grip than KR, and he took advantage of it. Clearly, the FIA see this as unfair, at least when a McLaren beats a Ferrari. Shameful.

[JC]

Dear FIA,

I'm done.

I put up with this last year but no more. Let me know to start watching again when you're ready to give McLaren a €10,000 'fine' or recognise what actual racing is.
Regrettably, I'm stupid enough that I'll return for the same farce next year. How unfortunate the decisions we make for the things we love.

All the best,
JC

[Pinaster]

Ed, After a couple of years reading your blog, I must admit your comment "I had a moment of anxiety about the speed with which Lewis went back on the offensive after conceding the place.../ It's easy to criticise them, but Ferrari had a case too. No doubt this is going to run and run. Although McLaren have said they intend to launch an appeal it is not certain whether it will be admissable." is the most honest, upright and respectable that Ive read from you.
Thankyou.

[Martyn P]

I have watched this over and over again. Hamilton gained an advantage, but immediatley gave it up by letting Raikonen pass. His car was then fully behind the Ferrari. Raikonen started to accelerate which meant he was fair game and Hamilton went for him as he must.

The penalty has given muc ammunition to those that believe that the powers that be will do all they can to favour Ferrari. I don't believe that. Now I do. I will not be following F1 next year. It is run by corrupt men with broken ethics

[LUCAS]

That was a difficult one. Lewis clearly abused from the rule (it says to give your position back, not how you should do that). In practice, he gave back the position just to use the advantage he has got to take it back. So, from a sportsmanship point of view, I guess the stewards are right.

Pit Kimi was not on track to get the benefits.

Massa thanks all of them!

[Tim Lumley]

Sorry Ed but on this is a travesty of justice, where was Lewis to go other than to the left when Kimi had pushed him to the outside of the track. The alternative was that Lewis stuck to his line and they both crashed out of the race. Lewis let Kimi past and then over took him into La Source. Lewis did everything that he was supposed to. The Stewards have spoilt one of the best ends to a race I have seen in 50 years of following F1. If we are not careful Drivers are going to be concerned of overtaking one another in case their move does not fit with the controllers of F1. I thought this was Motor Racing with the emphasis on the RACING.

[GFehr]

It does seem in this case as though the heat of one moment led too quickly to another -- the stewards'.

It's a little like a complicated incident of possible criminality being judged, juried and sentenced later the same day -- in the dark of an airless room. Systems of justice in just societies don't work that way, even if there is the semblance of an appeal available. A suitable period for everyone to chill, think, and gather the lawyers would have been more appropriate here -- say on the Wednesday or Thursday before (and at) the following venue.

In the old days, when it was all very clubby and there was really no money to speak of at stake, this sort of business in a tent behind the pits worked just fine. Tribal justice at its noblest. Ain't that way no more.

You can argue this decision was ineptitude or corruption or simply more of sad sack Max, whatever. But such haste is yet another example of how creaky and obscurely arbitrary the FIA system is. It has done no one any good (least of all the FIA).

But then again, so what? The FIA has long since shown its knickers -- and more -- and this was all just more of the show. It was what we (the "fans") not only have come to expect, but to accept as well, good little non-entities that we all are. The Brits can fume, the Spaniards can gloat, and naughty Lewis and hapless Kimi will each die vastly richer fellows all the same. So what matter this?

As the drivers always say, we must only "look forward" to next week at Monza and the triumphant return of Emperor Mosley to the flag-flecked fields of Ferrari.

[A Parker]

Ed, surely you can manage more of an opinion than that. Even javiervivaespania in the previous post, said decisions like this are killing the sport. BTW, thank you javier, for being so sporting and decent. I feel quite heartened by that - if an Alonso fan can recognise the unfairness of this decision, then that speaks volumes.

Apparently the whole paddock is shocked at what has happened. This surely signals the death knell for a sport that was being revitalised by Lewis Hamilton. But the FIA's hatred of him (or Mosley's or Ferrari's) has destroyed any semblance of fairness that they were tenuously clinging to before.

I have signed the online petition and written to the FIA. I don't think this disgrace will end soon.

[David Jones]

Every word in the previous thread stands and in my view this is nothing more than a blatant fix by the FIA or possibly the power behind it.
Disgusting.

[wibbler]

If there is a plausible case for both decisions then surely it should be left on the racetrack.

If the rules are unclear then clarify them (eg, after gaining an advantage after going offroad the driver must concede for at least 2 further corners), but don't come up with arbitrary punishments for ambiguous sections of the rules.

[John Gallagher]

This event just reconfirmed that FAI actually stands for Ferrari Intervention Association. At least NASCAR has set and fast rules that are enforced evenly.

[Stuart]

I just cannot believe that the stewards chose to ruin such an exciting race. I think is was hard but fairly fought...what a joke the FIA have become, such unabashed Ferrari bias is bringing the sport into disrepute, they should be the ones being penalised and investigated.

[Anon]

OK, the day seems to have calmed down. Let's go in with the analysis.

The Penalty.

Was it right? The simple truth of the matter is that we will never know. It's easy to say Ferrari bias, etc. It's also easy to overlook what happened. For all we know, Lewis may not have slowed down. He could have simply been slowing down because of running through the chicane. In any case, he did gain an advanatge on Kimi. The thng he could have done is try overtaking later. Overtaking in chicanes is always difficult.

But Lewis did one, much bigger mistake. The only guy who could have avoided it was the great Nelson. Senior of course. he would have realized that by finishing second, he was going to augment his lead in the WDC. He would have realized that Ferrari would again have two very different drivers fighting each other again. If Lewis had finished second, it would have been a genius move. Sure, he wanted to win, and you have to give him credit for the best race (almost) win since Alonso in Hungary in '06. It wasn't a mistake, it was a missed opportunity.

I am somehwat disappointed in the amount of Britsh fans that say they are sick with the sport. I'm not saying that the sport is not sickening. I'm saying that considering Lewis is still leading the world championship with most races coming up looking like his domain, he should easily win. I'm also disapointed in them for blowing a fuse at this while having laughed off notions of bias against Alonso last year. This penalty may feel bad, but from a championship point of view, Fernando's was worst last year. For more than a month Fernando had been hugfely criticized for his errors and he was living largely within Lewis's shadow. Then, because of his hard work in France, Britain, and Germany he managed to come up two points behind Lewis. His favorite race coming up, he was certain to win the WDC. And then he got this penalty that would neevr have occurred if Lewis had disobeyed team orders. All of the sudden, all the work was to be done again. And without that, Fernando would have been champion and happily retired right now, giving Renault counsels and probably haing a solid relationship with Lewis, etcetcetc.

Sure, the penalty was controversial. Sure, maybe he did deserve it. Both of these things can be said about Lewis today.

Politics.

Formula One is about politics. It's embroiled in there. Not because of Ferrari. Ferrari have simply taken what has been given them. It has been because of politics because of a remarkable group of people, all of them coincidentially British. Donelly, Mosley, Ecclestone, Dennis, Witing... the list goes on forvever. I would be more than happy to see this trio flung out the window.

If the media (and the British one in particular) had chosen to support Todt for president of the FIA, the teams and drivers may have had the guts to do it. I would easily rather want Todt for president than the goons we have now. But the backlash against the idea killed before anyone could do anything about it. And now, McLaren must be regretting it. Todt has won enough championships in his career to not have to worry about Ferrari winning or not.

All of this mess might also come back to the sex scandal. If McLaren had been as politically clever as Ferrari and supported Max for president, things might be very different. And the enemity between Ron and Maxis stupid and nuhealthy. Both men hate each and one must leave F1 if it is to be sane again. At best, both should retire.

The Race.

What a beatiful race. It tops everything. It was beautiful. We saw great driving from Felipe, Lewis, Nick, Fernando, the Sebs, and others. We also saw Heikki fail miserably, yet again.

Felipe.

The little Brazilian seems more determined than ever. On a dry track he feels comfortable with, he has Senna-esque pace. his wet race driving may be severely criticized, but today he had to stay out on drys just like Lewis, and he didn't spin. Unlike Lewis, but then again he wasn't fighting for position.

The Championship.

Lewis will win. He will. If he doesn't... than, he can join Fernando in the "penalties killed my bid to be champion" corner. He should definitely win in Monza. it will be interesting how Ferrari handle this one.

1.) It is their home race.
2.) Last year was a disaster.
3.) Their engines are fragile...
4.) but are the fastest.

Can Ferrari engines prevail? Can Felipe really gun his engine? I suggest he does. It will be his engine's first race, and Singapore is all downforce. He should make it roar like hell. A lot has been said of Felipe's street driving, but he was good in Monaco this year, in Monaco last year he drove a perfect race but simpl couldn't challenge the McLarens. In Canada this year, well, I guess he had a bad day. In Valencia this year, he was invincible. Now, we need to see how he handles Singapore. He must be having an annoying psychological impact on Lewis. The man who seemed ready to be punted out of his Ferrari seat now has turned into a ferocious little bull dog who won't let go. But in Japan Lewis will have a strong advantage. It is bound to be a wet race, as the FIA cleverly put Japan on during Septemeber, the monsoon season. but then, Lewis could not win in Hungary or Canada, where he was so dominant last year. Perhaps he will have a problem there. Then will come China, in which Lewis will exact revenge for sure. And than brazil, the hardest test for Lewis: there, he will need to keep his head cool under the burning Brazilian sun as Felipe is sure to drive to victory in front of a huge audience of roaring fans.

Lewis And Luck.

Some may rue the penalty. I don't see it as horrible as they do. Here is why Lewis has been lucky this year.

1.) Kimi had an engine failure in Australia.
2.) Felipe had an engine failure in Australia.
3.) Heikki suffered huge misfortunes in Australia, Spain, Turkey, Monaco, and Belgium. If not for the safety car in Australia, he would have been leading Lewis after Bahrain, a devastating moral blow.
4.) Lewis crashed at just the right time in Monaco. If he hadn't crashed then, he would have lost for sure.
5.) Lewis took out Kimi in Canada. It would have been worse if he took out Robert.
6.) Piquet leapfrogged massa to second place in germany. There was no reason to it but luck. If not for that, Felipe would be leading the WDC.
7.) Felipe's engine burst in Hungary, meaning Lewis preserved his lead. Obviously, Felipe's engine failure was not his fault as
8.) Kimi's engine failed in Valencia.

You could add more. if i hadn't rained in Britain, I don't think Lewis would have had a good race and he would have been sorely disappointed.

But you can go on and on about Lewis. he will win. he is simply the best. The only two I can see beating him are Fernando and Robert. Lewis has everything to win.

To my British friends: why so blue? Lewis still leads the WDC, and he will win it. All of the races coming up says so. It is sad that you would stop watching your hero and heck of a driver win this because of one stupid penalty. I watched China through gritted teeth last year absolutely convinced that Lewis would win. i watched it because I felt that I would not be showing good sportsmanship if I refused to see Lewis win. I would have applauded him if he did, even if I thought the result was biased. If I can watch a race where my favorite driver is 12 points down with 2 rounds to spare and has been hit by penalties, you can easily watch a race where your favorite driver is 2 points up with five rounds to spare and has been hit by penalties.

So, celebrate Andy's victory in tennis today. calmly remind yourself that you are Lewis is the best out there. And then watch him destroy the field in Monza in front of the Scuderia.

Regards with compassion,
Anon

[Ken]

Ed,the problem with this result is that it takes all of the wind and excitement out of the incredible battle between Kimi and Lewis by saying that Lewis, in effect (and wrongly in my opinion), cheated. The laps are in retrospect no longer 'thrilling and exciting' but sad...I hate to see racing drivers penalised for racing, it makes me think: why go through with the pagentry of a race?

[Weasel]

What's that whining sound I hear? Is it a Ferrari at 19000 rpm in need of assistance (again)?

[Finnish Sisu]

I have to say that i think exactly as you do mr Gorman. As a Finn im full of anger and i do think that what LH did was wrong and that the penalty was justified. Ofcourse im a Kimster and my opinion might not be impartial, but still as Gorman said he had the speed and the opportunity to get into kimis stream which he otherwise wouldnt have. Giving away the lead in the manner he did was just a formality i think. What annoys me most is that it destroyed kimis race and his campaign. he was clearly the best driver today and the one who deserved the victory. Still i liked seeing kimi go out fighting (not after the penalty ofcourse), and it showed the icemans true mentality, all or nothing.

And before you dash my opinion, remeber when LH was lifted with the forklift back into the race, something that had never happened before.

[Tunde Uche]

LOL - I've read alot of rubbish re; Hamilton passing at Spa. I thought I was watching racing and not a procession!! As far as crock goes, the Ferrari Assistance International has delivered again! That was literally the best racing I've seen in years and to break it down to a stewards decision is a joke. Spoil the sport, spoil the spoils, empty victory for Massa, inevitably a bigger embarassment for ferrari than mclaren gate.

[Frank]

Nice job Ed. Quite right - very exciting finish, I've watched it several times already. I for one think Lewis deserves the win, yes he was back on the throttle quickly but he did give up the position, and I think there were more than enough offs and ons for each of the top two that this penalty is unwarranted.

[Kohque]

First, Massa doesn't deserve to appear as winning Spa. As mentioned earlier by Tim, a penalization of 10 positions in the next race it would have been more than enough. As far as I am concern though, Hamilton is the real winner of Spa.

It is true Hamilton came out the chicane with more speed than Raikkonen, but what the heck? Hamilton didn't design Spa! The parts off-road should not allowed the drivers who pass through it to come into the track faster than drivers tracing the chicane correctly. Why blaming drivers for trying to win?

Seriously, what a stupid way to spoil a brilliant race!

I was all merry watching Raikkonen again leading a race. Unfortanetly, the intermediates -cooler due to rain I guess- didn't work very well with the Ferraris. McLaren was faster (at least in the straights) and better balance. Hamilton took all the power of that car to win the race!! He fought hard to catch Raikkonen and OVERTAKE him (a rare thing these days)... So what the FIA thinks? "Let's all do like Massa few races back... If under pressure, just give way or relax behind..." Rubbish!!!

[David]

Ed

Frankly unimpressed with your response! Removing a win in this way is a serious business. If it was 50/50, the stewards should have erred on the side of caution, taking into account the fact that incident didn't directly affect the outcome (as Kimi span off and crashed anyhow) and left it alone - or dreamed up a grid penalty for Monza at most. The decision ruined the best F1 race in years and disillusioned *a lot* of people.

Not only this, Raikkonen *twice* ran off track and used the spare tarmac to accelerate to catch and overtake Hamilton at the next curve (at the start and after the chicane incident at Pouhon). He also overtook under a yellow flag. But so what? It was all part of an exhilirating fight. When I saw Kimi using the long section of off-road at Pouhon to gain ground, I thought 's*n of a b*tch!' but admired the maneouvre: quick thinking and reactions, bending the rules, fighting, adding to the excitement. Even as a Hamilton fan, this is what I love watching.

Sorry, I don't buy the stewards decision was independent nor that Ferrari didn't press behind the scenes for an investigation and penalty. So what's the paddock opinion?

[Gary M]

Everyone, watch the video that Derek has linked on the first post. 100% clear evidence that the stewards have got this very wrong.

Now the only question left is why have the stewards got it so wrong? Is it because they are inept? or is it because a Ferrari has benefited from the decision?

It must be one of those.

Ed, I know what you mean by your initial thoughts but does that video of LH's view not change your mind somewhat? It looks very clear to me.

[teamwork-toronto-ON]

and the circus continues!

stay tunned! . . more to come! 2 more months! . .

[GFehr]

After checking out the YouTube clip cited by DEREK SMITH above, I got side-tracked by the related (as far as YouTube is concerned) clips of Jerry Lewis [get it?].

Reality-wise these are recommended in the wake of Spa 2008.

BTW, the original clip cited was still up a minute or so ago. Over at Bernie's shop they must sleep in a good deal later than Mr. Gorman.

[Anon]

OK, a ton more.

First of all, I hate the Lewis is a light for F1. There are twnety drivers out there who every weekend put there lives on the line. To say that they aren't interesting is hubris.

Having finally seen replay, Lewis ran on the green stuff. Not grass, but green stuff. Remember when Heikki went through the green stuff in France? I was certain that he'd get Jarno, as he was in a straight line and Jarno in a curve. but he didn't. So I guess it is safe to assume the stuff slows you down. Which would make you think that Lewis didn't brake or decellerate- he just wasn't going fast enough!

But that's an opinion. Who knows? I disagree with the penalty. Grid penalty at Monza would have been much smarter. (And would have made Ferrari win for sure in front of their crowd).

You have to admit, however, that the championship gets doubly interesting.

David- Kimi was fully in his right to do that. 100%. Reason it, he was actually augmenting the distance he had to amke up. Lewis, to the contrary, cut distance in the chicane( Allegedly). you're not allowed to cut them, that's all.

I thinkt he FIA should either equip chicanes with razor-sharp rocks in order to make sure cars who cut them have a big fat puncture. Or put little, mean barriers that don't stop visibility but sure hurt when banged. Then maybe this chicane crap will stop.

Italy, roll on. I'm sure McLaren will have a good race.

Lewis
Felipe
Heikki

[Maurizio]

I am a Ferrari tifoso and may see this through red tinted glasses but here it goes:

1. Lewis' cutting the corner isn't the issue the stewards have. Yet, I do think rather than dash across the track via the emergency lane, he could have just slowed down and taken the corner. Nevermind, not an issue per se.

2. The actual rule doesn't talk about giving the position back. It talks about enjoying an advantage. That must mean, being closer/further away that you could have been by not cutting the corner. The stewards looked at the pictures, analysed the data and decided that Lewis' position would have been further back had it not cut the chicane.

Are they right? I don't know. It certainly felt that Lewis was much closer to Kimi than he could have been had he actually gone around the corner.

3. Lewis would have passed him anyway so the stewards should have let him be. - Sorry that's just not acceptable. The rules are the rules, that sort of statement/thinking is against all that sport is meant to be.

4. F1 is politicised. Yes it is. But let me assure the British readers that it was not Ferrari that made a formal complaint to the FIA but the stewards' themselves that chose to investigate the overtake.
Also, let me remind you that the three stewards at each race are independent of the FIA. One is a permanent steward, two vary at each track.

5. F1 is dead. Yep, heard that before. Next.

So, I hope everyone can stop for a moment and realise that it's got nothing to do with Lewis being 6kmh slower than Kimi on the straight, Lewis letting Kimi through at the crossline or about Lewis having nowhere to go in that corner, etc.

It's about whether Lewis gained an advantage by cutting the chicane or not. Simple.

However, I do think the stewards, even if Lewis did gain an advantage, should have let it be. This is because they should have used some common sense and realised that:
a. Lewis did not cut the corner to gain an advantage. He did so to avoid a crash and since there is a rather large tarmac area available, he chose to use it. Had there been a wall, he'd have slowed down and taken the corner. But he had the choice and chose to use the tarmac, quite sensibly I must say.
b. Mitigating circumstances: it was raining and they were on dry tires. Had it been dry, I am sure it would have been a lot easier for Lewis to let Kimi pass and let him take back his "space". But in those conditions, how could have Lewis known what sort of speed Kimi could have used, since they were both being cautious and not flat out.
c. There were no complaints from Ferrari. If they accepted the result on the track, so should have the stewards in this situation.

PS: Can we stop posting stuff about the 2007 season? Really, it's way beyond boring now.

[jms68]

I am not a fan of Lewis. I think he is one of the best drivers in the grid today, but I just don't like the way he sells himself.
But today, he deserved the win. Yes, it was close. Yes, it was an aggressive move. But it didn't really change the result of the race. Kimi lost it. Lewis didn't.
And Felipe CLEARLY didn't deserve it!!

[Lester Forbes]

This all reminds me of Austria-gate from 2002, all this controversy. Like a previous poster said.

The manouver did not affect the race result since Kimi spun off twice on the next lap (without LH's help)

It was a clear racing incident. The ***** stewards should of left it at that. If Lewis misses the championship because of this massaging of the result by FIA then I'll desperatly dissilusioned by the whole circus.

shame, shame, shame on those people involved with this decision.

it wouldn't surprise me if Lewis has more penalties before the end of the season, and it certainly wouldn't surprise me if he looses out on the championshop again.

I've been thinking about what set's Lewis Hamilton apart from the others in F1 ? his Speed, his Confidence & Self-Belief or maybe it's somthing more visable about him?

Lewis does certainly seem to be on the unfair end of most FIA decions that end up benifting Ferrari.

Is the old guard in Formula 1 racist ? is there a conspiracy against McLaren?

Are unseen forces working to make Felipe world Champion ?

I know one thing for sure, such a deision wouldn't happen in other 'sports' like Football, Imagine having the result of the Champions League overturned hours after everyone went home by men in suits with various commercial interests in the sport. The fans would revolt!

[Matthew Brown]

I would not be have as disappointed in the decision of the FIA had Massa not been in clear breach of the rules in the last race, and took similar evasive action and recieved, as i am aware, no penalty. It just disappoints me that agressive overtaking is being penalised. Yes hamilton may have been in breach of the rules but no more that Kimi and no more than Massa last race.
These incidents can only damage the reputation of a sport that is being continuously rocked by scandels.

[Pau]

I think Lewis did something illegal and should have waited a little more before trying to pass Kimi again. They were next to each other on the finish line, if Lewis had properly driven in the track he could not have gotten such an advantage.

Sorry Lewis, there are rules for everyone and you cannot cheat. As usual he cannot keep his cool. If he was indeed faster he could have tried to overtake later.

And of course, as a Spaniard and Alonso fan I take a lot of pleasure reading all these calls for fairness from the british.

Where were you in Hungary'07?

[IDR]

The best race in many years and has been ruined by politics.

At the end, I understand the logic on this:

Kimi and Lewis didn't deserve to win this race, because both drivers were giving us spectacle, so the FIA gave the trophy to the man who follows the current rules: Processional races, no guts on track, just qualy and pits stop.

Racing fights on track are not allowed in current F1 model.

What we see yesterday was just racing, and if racing contravenes current rules, then change the rules.

Thanks to Kimi and Lewis for giving us one of the most exciting moments in F1.

At least, when we will want to talk about amazing moments, we will not have to go backwards many years surfing throught YouTube to bring back some interesting stuff.

[Bruce Talamon]

Ed,
People will be talking about those last two laps at Spa for years to come. And we know who the real winner is. He's the guy still leading the Drivers World Championship, Lewis Hamilton.

The interesting thing is that the race Stewards can not hide behind the excuse that they were closer to the action or had a better angle than "the fans" and that is why they could make a more informed decision. No. This was not soccer or American football or baseball where the officials are on the field in the middle of the action. These were racing cars. And unless they were floating above and next to Lewis and Kimi as they fought wheel to wheel, the Stewards saw exactly what we saw from the same television cameras. And they blew the call. They got it wrong.

Who are these Race Stewards? I think I found the names on http://www.f1.com but I want to be sure. I say this because they should have their names made public so that protest letters can be sent.
Bruce Talamon
Los Angeles
USA

[todd]

Great post ANON, a very level headed view, i feel i'm in the same boat as you. i'm not sick of the sport, politics fia etc i'm sick of the ignorant comments and sick of reading them, rather then stopping watching f1, i'll stop reading blogs.

end of the day, hamilton cut the corner and even though he gave back the position, he didnt give back enough, he has to let off and give back more than he gained.

if he did hit the brakes and go behind kimi into the last corner, he would not have been so close into the next corner and that's what the decision is based on - not how close he was to him on the 2nd last corner.

also - he didnt need to do it, hamilton put himself into this situation and now he's paying the price, he cut the corner, he should have given lots of space back to the other driver and either attacked again later, or settle for 2nd, attacking again straight away after cutting a corner is not smart.

i don't like kimi, i dont like hamilton i dont care about either of them, just the racing. hamilton made a stupid move, and kimi made a stupid move on the next lap, they are equally useless.

hamilton wasn't the only one penalised with a drive through penalty (or 25 seconds), other drivers were too, timo and kovi were as well.

wish people would settle down and stop trying to bash the FIA or ferrari.

i think the main people that are being 'disillusioned' are the hamilton fans...

[Derek Smith]

The best race of the season. The best race under the new, rather silly rules. A race that should be remembered for all the right reasons. A race to put bums on seats even, perhaps, in Valencia. And this morning we wake up to all the wrong headlines in the papers.

For a bloke whose skills are supposed to be in PR, Allan Donnelly certainly knows how to waste platinum media coverage.

When the sponsors should be rejoicing at getting yards of free newspaper coverage we get conspiracy theories and suggestions of corruption.

The rule on 'advantage gained' should be clear and precise. If, as is the case, the actual interpretation is subjective, then the person whose job it is to make the decision, the final arbiter, must be someone who has the confidence of the pitlane and is not only totally independent but must give the appearance of so. Far from being respected in the pitlane, Donnelly hadn't even worked in one before being grabbed from obscurity by Mosley. And as for the appearance of independence, Donnelly's history of being beholden to Ferrari, not to mention it not being made clear whether or not he continues to take their money, blocks any appearance of independence.

When so much depends on a decision, the final arbiter must be as close to pristine as it is possible to get. And F1 is about as far from the appearance of pristine as it is possible to get.

Whether or not the decision is justified in one aspect. The main one is that the perception of many is that just as many FiA officials, some holding very high positions in the organisation, are biased against McLaren and favour Ferrari.

How can the arbiter in such cases as these be what to many people is a Ferrari employee?

A great race, one that was inspirational, that went to the person who deserved the win, one that would have been talked about for all the right reasons for years, has been ruined by the FiA. The race has been awarded to a driver who was off the pace throughout the race and the person who supposedly was put at such a terrible disadvantage crashed out. Some disadvantage.

A decision that has such far reaching consequences should only have been made where there was a clear unfair advantage gained. If, as in this case, there were arguments either way, then the result should stand as LH was a deserved winner.

I would like to apply for the job of Chief Steward. Unfortunately, I have been in the F1 pitlane, but I didn’t inhale. I have a job that has nothing to do with F1. I am not respected by those I have to deal with. I have no knowledge of the ins and outs of motor racing. The only box I can’t tick is that I have represented Ferrari, or any team in the pitlane (whatever a pitlane is). Does that rule me out?

[Steve]

I am new to Formula 1, so sorry if I am being stupid, but can anyone help me understand? I have read all the comments but am still in the dark. For me, this was the most exciting race I have ever seen, but if the result can be changed afterwards and it would seem so arbitrarily then I don;t see the point of watching this 'sport'.

I saw Lewis was right behind Kimi but was catching him. Therefore he was going faster. Then he went off the track. I thought that might be the end (since I don't really know the rules) but the commentators said he would be OK if he gave back his advantage. He then slowed down and let Kimi retake the lead. At that point, since he slowed down and Kimi went past, he MUST have been going SLOWER than Kimi and was now behind him again. So he has gone from being faster but behind, to being slower but behind.

So therefore he must have given up any advantage becuase he was now in a worse position than before the incident. How can the stewards therefore say he did not give back the advantage? How far back should he have dropped before they were satisfied? I am not trying to be a smart arse, I honeslty do not understand, probably becuase I do not know the rules. Also, can someone tell me why there wasn't a flag or something to tell him he was in trouble? In other races I have seen people have a flag waved at them to tell them they were going to be penalized.

As a complete novice, it does appear that for some reason the sport want Ferrari to win - I noticed int he last race that when Massa came out of his pit lane at the same time as someone else, which apparently breaks the rules, he was given a fine. But I read in the paper yesterday that someone else did that in some other sort of race (G2? F2 or something?) and was given a drive-through penalty.

As far as I am concerned, I will go back to the safety of the Premier League. They have loads of crap decisions, but they draw the line at changing results afterwards.

[Pierre]

The FIA are making a mockery of the sport.

Lewis ran wide in an attempt to overtake Kimi. Whether or not he was forced or not is irrelevant.

Lewis came back on track just in front of Kimi, and then almost immediately was behind him again.

Two possibilities:

1) Lewis lifted to recede the position
2) Lewis didn't lift, but had just lost speed off track, meaning that Kimi was faster and overtook him.

If it was 1, then surely Lewis handed back the position, so should have avoided any penalty.

If it was 2, then what unfair sporting advantage was gained, since he wasn't able to hold position after running off track?

This sport in my opinion is so corrupt it's very existence must be threatened. What are the FIA hoping? That all McLaren sponsors will abandon ship forcing the team to the back of the grid without funding?

Instead, I really hope Lewis and his team win both WC. Everyone will know that they beat the Red Team on an unequal playing field, making it an even greater achievement.

But if that happens, the FIA will probably start declaring that Lewis's win in Silverstone has been disaqualified because he was driving too quick in the wet so it was 'dangerous', or something.

[Mark]

Oh dear.

The F1 has finally fallen to the levels of farce. It's like watching the Eurovision Song Contest for God's sake!

Anyone who follows motoracing or has participated will know that Hamilton's move was aggressive (good) and controlled (also good). He went for an ambitious outside pass, he couldn't make it so backed out and used the run-off. He slowed to allow Raikonnen to pass (listen to the engine note on the youtube clip (and that big red car in front also gives you an idea that the Ferrari is alllowed ahead again) and then passes him on the breaks into the first corner.

The FIA have exposed themselves (how appropriate!) and we see this once gladiatorial sport for what it has become. Its now no more than a controlled theatre to sell perfume and French motor cars.

Pathetic. I have watched F1 since 1974. No more. That was my last Grand Prix. What is the point watching it when these idiotic decisions are made with such blatant bias..

[Richard]

FINNISH SISU - 'he had the speed and the opportunity to get into kimis stream which he otherwise wouldnt have'

So, just so I can get this straight in my mind, could you please remind us where Lewis was in relation to Kimi prior to the chicane? Was he too far back to have the opportunity to get into Kimi's slipstream? Oh no, he was actually alongside so your statement is completely untrue.

The only reason Lewis went across the chicane in the first place was because Kimi pushed him off the track. Lewis made a genuine and viable attempt to overtake but he probably didn't reckon on Kimi's mindset of winning at any cost, which Kimi later admitted. He would rather have crashed than let Lewis take the victory, and that's exactly what he did on the next lap. It was this reckless mindset that caused the incident.

The only thing that destroyed Kimi's race was Kimi himself. Lewis was clearly quicker on the lap he overtook Kimi, he was 6 kmh slower and behind Kimi across the finish line but simply outbraked him going into La Source.

If you think Kimi was the best driver yesterday then you're obviously correct about your lack of impartiality.

When Lewis was lifted back onto the track last year, the precedent for this was set some years earlier by Ferrari and Schumacher. I can't remember which GP it was but he spun into a gravel trap and was pushed out by the marshals. Everyone thought he was going to be disqualified for getting outside assistance but the F(errari) I(nternational) A(ssistance) said it was OK because his car was in a dangerous position. To have penalised LH for obtaining outside assistance would have been inconsistent but I suppose we should all be surprised that it didn't happen because the FIA are hardly consistent at the best of times.

[Nick]

So the Raikkonen pass of Hamilton presumably under yellow as Rosberg recovered to the track goes unpunished then ! Having put up with the Coglan Scandal, the spineless Mosley Farce and witnessed the greatest few laps racing of the modern era (thanks to the weather) I've decided to retire from Formula 1 - Its rotten to the core.

[JaviG]

Congratulations Ed, I did not expect these words.

Now regarding the chicane-gate, I am afraid that people are missing the point.

Hamilton could have avoided cutting the chicane, but in fact he turned to the left to avoid THE ASTROTURF carpet. Had Lewis have stayed on the track, what he could have perfectly done, he would have lost a lot of time, and may not have another chance to overtake. So Lewis (and I understand him) cut the chicane. It´s natural, you cannot pretend him to think about these rule in this very same moment.

The call is fair (but a little bit harsh), but the point here is these stupid chicanes. Like the ones in Magny Cours. How is it possible that the track allows to gain an advantage going off track? If this chicane was made of grass or sand there wouldn´t be a problem.

[Richard]

ANON - 'I don't think they believe in i and that if they had come out roaring it would have been different'

I think Ron Dennis has been around long enough to realise that 'roaring' about it would only be counter-productive, likely to drive the FIA into a stubborn position of entrenchment.

In these situations, it's better to say little to the media until the penalty is confirmed once the appeal process has run it's course.

Once the judgment is confirmed, I'm sure Ron will be more vociferous but he tends to be more careful with his criticism of the FIA these days, presuably because he doesn't want to be penalised for bringing the sport into disrepute. Given the FIA's ridiculous and blatant persecution of McLaren, I think his concerns would be justified.

[Richard]

"I think we can all agree - whoever you support etc - that the last three or four laps of Spa this year were among the most exciting, most thrilling and invigorating we will ever see".

It really doesn't say much for F1 when it has to start raining to make a race interesting. An overhyped sport if ever there was one.

[Mark]

Totally agree with sentiments here - regardless of who won/lost/crashed the damage this penalty has done to the sport is huge. For the first time in ages we actually saw some racing, a wheel to wheel battle that had everyone on the edge of their seat.
Bernie needs to think about how this has turned off the punters - he had the perfect show yesterday that was ruined, leaving a nasty taste in everyones mouth.
Max needs to think about how this makes the FIA look in the eyes of the motorsport world - assuming he gives a damm of course.

[supercampeaobrasileiro]

Listen - it is not massa's fault or ferrari's fault that the stewards penalised massa.
Btw, ed, I think massa's race was prob compromised by his engine - it didnt run at full revs and there was a serious risk on this circuit, with full load on most of track that it would fail. So go easy on the felipinho - he drove a bit like lewis did in valencia, a pretty solid but boring race as he cannot afford not to score in any race.

Meanwhile, I have to say, I loved the scrap between kimi and lewis - again, I thought kimi got outwitted, diving to the wrong side and let ham through (the first time!)...all good stuff.

As for the penalty - i think ed is prob right - you always run a risk if you straight line a chicane then keep carrying speed and sort of cede the place and stay with the other car...all v difficult.

Personally, I favour hard racing, wheel banging, senna-schumi style - I was one of those fans who cheered when schumi plowed into villeneuve at suzuka and tried to take him out, and when senna took out prost! I love that all out aggression. I do not like penalties that affect the racing. But heh ho, these are the rules and they are v difficult to apply without spoiling someone's day. I would have been gutted if felipe got his win in valencia annulled. I thought ham's drive was superb and was sad for him at this decision.
On the other hand, it makes for another superb WDC!!!

Btw, ferrari now have to sit kimi down and explain that he is no 2. Game over for ice man i think.

[Pierre]

@ A Parker,

You mention a petition - what petition?

For everyone else:

The stewards's decision is apparently known inside F1 circles as being compliant with 'the red car rule'.

[A Parker]

Saw this on another site and agree totally:

"Last year, Lewis rightly and in a sportsmanlike manner said he did not want to win the championship in the courts but on the track as it would devalue the sport. I wonder if Massa will say the same. I doubt it."

[Tim]

There is always more than one side to any story and, in the howls of frustration at a cracking GP being decided off the track, it would be easy to assume to conflate the various issues at stake - the offence, the outcome and the penalty. This situation was much more complex than simply "FIA fixes race to allow Ferrari to win", which is appears to be one of the more common explanations at the moment. As Ed has pointed out, surely Ferrari had some sort of a case? My main difficulty with the whole episiode is with the type of penalty and how it was applied.

The incident. Lewis Hamilton gets a run on Kimi Raikkonen in the run up to the Bus Stop chicane. Kimi sees this coming and moves to the middle of the track to defend. Lewis opts for the outside line, brakes later and (from the camera in the pitlane looking at the two cars side on) is ahead by about half a car length going into the right hand part of the corner. But Kimi has the inside line into the first part of the corner and comes out just ahead, although not by a full car length. The two cars head into the left hand part of the chicane with Lewis behind but on the inside, Kimi ahead but on the outside. From Lewis' in car footage, Kimi is clearly ahead and the engine cover of the Ferrari is clearly visible - the gap is almost (but not quite) a car length. Kimi steers left to take his line into the corner and Lewis steers harder left to take the escape road, emerging ahead of the Ferrari. Lewis clearly knows that he now needs to give the place back so he backs off and Kimi retakes a slim lead. From the onboard footage, the engine note of Lewis' car clearly changes (i.e. he lifted) but not for long. Lewis brakes later into La Source and squeezes past Kimi, who gets a run out of Eau Rouge but Lewis blocks and stays ahead.

The critical part of the incident is the second part of the chicane. Did Kimi drive unfairly by chopping across to the apex of the turn? Did Lewis react reasonably by cutting across the run off area rather than slowing down to take the corner? For my money, I think Kimi was firm but fair. It may well have been a "you brake or we both crash" move, but Lewis has executed plenty of these in his short F1 career. I doubt he would have done anything different had he been in Kimi's position. The onboard camera showed that Kimi was clearly ahead. The more I watch it, the more I am minded to believe that Lewis should not have chosen to cut the chicane but rather to follow Kimi through the second part of the corner. It was obviously a split second decision, but I am having difficulty in understanding why Lewis couldn't have remained on the track rather than taking to the escape road as he did.

Drivers quite often use the run off area at the final turn in Montreal without penalty, so why was Lewis' use of the run off area at Spa penalised? Well, I reckon that the Montreal run off is generally used when drivers enter the first part of the chicane too quickly and their cars wash out too wide to make the second part of the turn. At the Bus Stop, had Lewis gone into the first part of the turn too quickly and understeered onto the run off area then things may have been different. But he didn't - the McLaren was slowed down effectively and made the turn easily. It was lined up for the second part of the corner until Lewis opted to take the escape road.

The outcome. Regardless of what happened at the Bus Stop, the fact remains that Lewis was close enough to pass Kimi at La Source. Lewis made the pass by braking later than Kimi, rather than by dint of the speed advantage gained by cutting the chicane - i.e. Lewis lifted. Kimi had another run on the way up to Les Combes but Lewis defended. Although the lead changed hands after that, the race was Lewis'. Had Lewis opted to stay on track at the Bus Stop, he would have taken a much tighter line at the second part of the corner, emerged much more slowly onto the start/finish straight and probably wouldn't have been close enough to pass at La Source. Kimi would probably have kept his lead until Les Combes at least, but it probably wouldn't have made much difference in the end. Lewis is good in slippery conditions and the Ferrari suffers badly.

ITV's post race analysis (pre-penalty) was that Lewis had risked all and won. He now seems to have risked all and lost. As Anon points out, had Kimi won the race Lewis would still have extended his lead by two points Massa and Ferrari would have been forced to keep backing both of their drivers, rather than putting all their efforts into Massa. In the event, Lewis made a move on Kimi that was marginal - McLaren clearly thought so, as they ordered Lewis to give the place back and consulted the Race Director to confirm that enough of an advantage had been surrendered in the process. Lewis' decision to cut the chicane was made in a split second and can only have been instinctive - but he should have used his brain after that and realised that he needed to play it safe. Allowing Kimi to lead through La Source would have been fine - Lewis must have known he'd be able to take the Ferrari (or settle for a safe second) later in the lap. In my view, Kimi leading through La Source wouldn't have made any difference - a Lewis victory in those circumstances was inevitable. Once again, inpatience appears to have gotten the better of him.

Was an advantage gained by cutting the chicane? Clearly. Was the advantage surrendered? Sort of. Had Lewis followed Kimi round the chicane (which was the alternative course of action) he wouldn't have been as close at La Source and probably wouldn't have been able to overtake there. On that basis, the advantage wasn't totally surrendered and so a punishment was fair enough. Lewis didn't help himself by moving across the track to block Kimi a total of three times on the run up to Les Combes.

The penalty. As I've previously posted, the driver who takes the flag should be the winner of the race - barring any legality issues with the car. It does the reputation of F1 no good whatsoever so have races decided hours after the drivers have celebrated on the podium. A grid penalty for Monza would have been punishment enough.

I don't think this will lose Lewis the title this year - it's his to lose. Massa is going to have to raise his game significantly to win it and I don't think he's capable of doing that, even with his team mate in a clear number two role. Lewis just needs to keep his head...

[Al_Scotland]

Ive been watching F1 for 20 years and I have never seen a "race winner" demoted. Perhaps this happened before? I dont know. But I think if any penalty is imposed it should be retrospective, like grid demotion at next race or personal fine. Personally I think it was racing incidents. Race result was not affected, Lewis was clearly much faster even before the rain, and would have passed either there or next corner or next... wherever, but Hamilton would have won race clearly. So now we have a clear winner, who is removed by authorities.

Let us consider Shumacher, blocking the track and running into other drivers, let us consider Senna and his deliberate crashes. Let us consider Alonso last season forcing his own team mate onto the gravel. Let us remember Massa in the pit lane, and Kimi in Spa using "all the track" throughout the race, and deliberately trying to crash into Hamilton to deny his pass.

None of these ever resulted in a revision of the race result.

Now we have a new rule? We can see from public reaction what the truth is here. The public are dismayed and only Finns and Brazilians seem to argue about this decision.

This is a con. F1 is morally bankrupt.

Lewis will go on to win the title, without further interference from FIA. will this happen? or will results go to the last race? who cares, if its over its over... we want to se who is the champion, and if its Lewis with 4 races to go then so be it.

[Anthony Currie]

Firstly I must say I am and always have been a huge Ferrari fan. I cannot stand McLaren or Ron Dennis and I am sure he knew more about 'SpyGate' than he is letting on. However what happened yesterday was just plain wrong.
Like many I was reminded of the classic Villeneuve/Arnoux battle yesterday. I guess that if that race had been held in 2008 both drivers would have been penalised for going off the track occasionally and people would remember the race for the penalties incurred rather than the on-track action. That is what will happen with this race. People will be debating the penalty for years rather than celebrating an amazing and exciting race.
I sometimes feel like a battered wife with my love for F1. I know I should leave F1 as it has abused me for so many years, but I still come back for more as I 'lurve' it. My friends can't understand it and ask how I can love a sport that treats me with such contempt, but I keep telling them that I can see the good in it and one day it will change...
Maybe I should set up a refuge for battered F1 fans where we can try to support each other and escape from our abusive relationship with F1?

[supercampeaobrasileiro]

@ al scotland - if you are referring to my post then you should learn how to read amigo!

[Joseote]

Pity and shame. It has been the most thrilling race in all the season. What a start, and specially, what an end! I am not Lewis fan, I have never been (yes, I am Alonso's), but I must admit that the boy has guts and he proved it. He could have been conservative and have enough with his second position, which was good for him on the whole. But no, he fough for victory, and he beated Kimi (I think) right and squarely. Yes, maybe he was just on the edge of the rules, but I think he drove better than Kimi under the rain and he deserved to win the race. Anyway, Lewis, thank you for providing us one of the most thrilling and spectacular ends of the season.

[Pinaster]

Where were you?
Now you throw up your hands in horror, in Hungary you called FA whiner and loser.
Where were you last year in nurburgring? Cheering up the crane, and calling FA looser and whiner. Now you cry out for justice.
You can fume in holy indignation as much as you want, you can keep outrageously scandalized. But sorry, you wont find any sympathy from me. Maybe you could show us now how a truly winner dont cry, and how a sporting supporter accepts the injustice, instead this racket of hired mourners and trembling sanctimonious.

[Pierre]

Anyone who disagrees with the Penalty given to Hamilton at the Belgian GP should sign this:

http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html

Almost 10,000 signatures already.

[Richard]

Very little has been said about Kimi's driving during the incident. Here's a clip showing the normal racing line for the chicane:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGBSgI-L3iY

As you can see, the cars stay on the right hand side after the first apex and turn in to the second apex very late so they can apply the throttle earlier down the pit straight.

Now look at Kimi's line:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDjAnXEadGc

Kimi moves to the left far earlier than usual, and is at the apex far sooner than is ideal. There's only one reason he did this, to squeeze Lewis off the track. He knew Lewis was there because the McLaren was actually in front before the chicane

Well, that's just Kimi driving defensively you may say, and I'd agree. But Lewis took a perfectly legitimate opportunity to overtake, and the only reason he had to cut the chiane was to avoid an accident with Kimi who'd deliberately moved off his usual line. You could call it a professional foul.

After the race, Kimi made it very clear that he was out to win the race at all costs, and with the situation at Ferrari i.e. the possibility of being asked to support Massa, who can blame him? The fact is though, Kimi intimated that he'd rather crash than finish second, and he proved that in spectacular fashion.

Kimi knew that his title chances were slim, and he knew Lewis would want to avoid an accident at all costs, so what better way to keep your place than to do what Kimi did?

I wouldn't want to see Kimi punished for this because it's just racing, and it's the kind of racing we all want to see.

So what lessons can a driver learn from all of this:

a) Don't risk overtaking unless you are absolutely sure you will get ahead without any possibility of an incident that could be investigated.
b) It's safer to overtake through pit strategy because a) is virtually impossible.
c) If you don't mind losing the points, it's OK to drive into another car and either crash or force it off the track
d) It's OK to overtake under a yellow flag if you have a red car, you won't even be investigated for it let alone punished.
e) It's OK to use tarmac run off areas to gain a performance advantage (look at Pouhon clips) as long as you have a red car, you won't even be investigated for it let alone punished.

Well, that sounds like a recipe for some great racing in future, I can't wait. No, hang on, I hear they're televising tiddlywinks next year, maybe I'll watch that instead

[David Hodge]

I have had one post removed it seems because of reference to a certain person in position of regulatory authority in F1 so I won't mention the name. Suffice to say, the thrust of my post was not so much Ferrari bias but anti-McLaren bias. I wonder if that had been Kubica and Hamilton if the resulting ruling would have been the same? If that had been Raikonnen and Kubica, would there have been an investigation? I will leave it there - I think there is a distinctly fishy smell.

Planet-F1 is going mad but there is now a fairly un-frothing-at-the-mouth article on there which suggests the stewards may have shot themselves in the foot by confusing the facts of the "offence" with the rules in question, thus allowing McLaren a route to appeal. We shall see.

YouTube still has some clips, this one from German TV which shows the last 5 laps. It shows the complete sequence of the BusStop, followed by Kimi offtrack completely around Pouhon, the Rosberg avoidance and finally Kimi spinning off. It then goes on and eventually there is an onboard from Nick Heidfeld's car which is quite spectacular. He was picking off cars with ease - I bet he wished he had 10 more laps! Anyway, check this before they take it down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0xiGkc1yBY&feature=related

Last but not least, nothing from James Allen on the ITV website. The discussion of his commentary skills is something else but the man writes well and I always look forward to his jottings - nothing so far today when he has normally posted within an hour or two of the end of the race.

[A Parker]

Pierre, I tried posting the petition before but my post was blocked citing spam. I shall try and get round it so here goes: do the 3 x w's, then petitiononline, then /belgp08/petition.html. It is easy to sign and already has 9,250 signatures. I've also written to the FIA at:

FEDERATION INTERNATIONALE DE L'AUTOMOBILE
8, Place de la Concorde
75008 Paris
France

Just takes a 50p stamp from Britain, or you could use 2 x 1st class stamps if it's difficult to get to a post office.

[Mrs Bishop]

I had to wait about 3-4 hours to find out the real results yesterday! And once I read the report I learnt nothing new, because everyone still knows that Lewis won the race and if this is the difference between him winning the championship [hope it's not] then everyone knows he won his first championship in the 2008 season.
I saw the highlight programme last night and they commented on how a race that all the drivers had felt priviledged to be a part of has been turned into a race that will always be remembered for this investigation.
I bet Lewis wishes he'd have pushed 2 seconds harder in the last laps now, then he'd be second...

@A Parker

Where's the petition? I'm going to sign straight away!

[Andy C]

Ed - I've been following F1 since childhood - over forty years.
I'm not a Lewis Hamilton fanboy by any stretch of the imagination.
Yesterday left me with several thoughts:-

1: Bent
2: Twisted
3: Corrupt
4: Unfair
5: Preverted

6: Who the hell is yanking the strings? *******? *******?

*** is going on??

So when are the decent investigative journalists going to get "in deep" with these clowns? Or are we all too concerned about our accreditation?

[Jordi]

Still not sure if the stewards are right or wrong. But I'm quite sure that if LH didn't take the escape road he wouldn't have the momentum/speed to overtake Kimi in the next corner.

Imagine for a minute that the escape road wasn’t there, LH would have only to choices, to break and take the corner behind kimi (losing momentum) or to crash into the wall.

Another thing they need to look at are regulations and penalties, they seem to be pulled off a hat. Remember Fernando been punished in Hungary 2007 for breaking unknown rules?

[Richard]

ANTHONY CURRIE - I loved the battered wife analogy, it perfectly sums up how I feel too.

I made the same point about the Villeneuve/Arnoux battle yesterday, how sad that such a rare occurence i.e. an exciting and memorable race will forever be tainted in such a cynical way.

[Nigel]

The only reason that the penalty came about was because LH immediately overtook KR at the next corner. If he had waited a little while longer he would have got him anyway and the Stewards would have had nothing to complain about. However, the fact is that he did give the place back and the rules do not state any restrictions beyond that, so by the letter of the law, LH did nothing wrong in retaking KR. To use the term 'advantage' is purely subjective and has no place in a rule book. The rules are at fault here and, by those standards, what also needs penalising is KRs huge 'advantage' gain by driving flat out around the run off area and almost retaking Lewis several corners later. A 10 position grid drop at the next race I think.

[Richard]

PINASTER - if you weren't still so blinded by the events of last year, you might be able to see the bigger picture here. But you are, so there's probably no point in explaining it.

Just remember this - when F1 ceases to exist because so many fans became disillusioned once too often, and the racing became so boring because the drivers learnt to always play it safe, you can proudly stand up and say that you didn't make a stand against what's happening. All because, in your sad little world, seeing Hamilton get punished somehow makes you feel better about Alonso.

Don't forget that Alonso has also been on the receiving end of blatant pro-Ferrari decisions, remember Monza? Or are you hoping that Alonso goes to drive for Ferrari so he can be handed the championship on a plate by the FIA. Is that really the way you want to see him win?

[A Parker]

The petition has now topped 10,000 signatures. See my previous post to add to it!

[Felipe]

The victim of that race was Kovalainen, his penalty was ridiculous. How many times have we seen that mistake this year and no penalty!!!

When I saw the move I thought that's not right, he got unfair advantage for cutting the corner... unfortunately the punishment may seem a bit harsh, especially since he won outright, but he has to control himself a bit better.

If this is going to be the decider of who wins and loses. That will be the second year in a row. Alonso's five points in Hungary were worth a championship!!!

[Antonio]

I think that the incident yesterday may be arguable. Wether should be penalty or not, a grid penalty next race or 25s postrace.

But what i cannot stand is all these people throwing dirt about the Villeneuve/Arnoux race. This two guys behaved like complete gentlemen. If you see the footage, they didn't try to crash the other one, neither did they take advantage unfairly going off the track. That was a fair race back in 1979 and nowadays.

In Spa Lewis undoubtedly got advantage of the chicane, and it is debatable that he gave it back or not. Please stop comparing that race to Spa 2008!!!! I know that this one was thrilling too, but the fairness of that race is unquestionable

[Duncan]

The issue is surely one of consistency (ie fairness)? In France, Lewis was judged to have gained an advantage while overtaking when he missed an apex at a chicane and got a drive-through penalty. At Spa Lewis got a time penalty because the decision that he'd gained an unfair advantage was made after the race and a drive-through penalty could not be levied. But what about two instances when Kimi "gained an advantage" at the start of yesterday's race?

Firstly, at the very first corner of the race, Kimi over-ran into Turn 1 (La Source) and went onto the tarmac run-off (ie OFF the circuit) and used the momentum of the wider line to sling-shot behind - and then pass his team mate Massa for second place. That incident was less than a minute into the race, so the stewards (and Ferrari, if they wished to protest) had plenty of time to bring Kimi in for a drive-through penalty.

The second incident, if my memory serves me well, was when Lewis spun at Turn 1 at the beginning of Lap 2. Kimi again took to the run-off (ie OFF the circuit) to pass Lewis for P1? Given that Lewis was stationary at the outside of Turn 1, there was plenty of room for Kimi to have passed Lewis on the racing line inside (ie ON the circuit). Kimi TWICE missed the apex at Turn 1 and gained a place both times but no penalty. Lewis missed the apex at the final turn, gained a place AND a penalty. OK, the stewards could irrelevantly slap a 25-second penalty on Kimi too, but the point is - if Lewis's penalty had been consistently applied by the stewards - Kimi should have been in for a drive-through penalty in the first half of the race and from then the race would have been very different indeed!

Anthony Lewis is right - the victory has not been stolen from Lewis - it's been stolen from F1.

[Xeron]

Ferrari this... the FIA that...
People doesnt remember it was MCLaren who give both championships to Ferrari last year.Ja,ja we have penalised Alonso!Can't you see you are penalising yourself! nobody said a word, I couldt believe it.
And what's the fine they get compare to the fact that they were allow to compete, yeah we forget what we want,but we are still the true fans.And yet some people dare to post that it's because Hamilton is black. Come on lets be responsible!

[Prof Plum]

Being all fired-up about this shocking decision by the stewards after such a fantastic driving battle, I went looking on the FIA website to let them know.

It looks to me that there is good precedent for them overturning the race meeting steward's decision, if you find their judgement of 12 June in relation to the 2008 FIA GT championship.

So, I'd like to see them find the Mclaren appeal 'admissible', and do the decent thing.

[Red 27]

@ Pierre
and I quote:
"Two possibilities:

1) Lewis lifted to recede the position
2) Lewis didn't lift, but had just lost speed off track, meaning that Kimi was faster and overtook him.

If it was 1, then surely Lewis handed back the position, so should have avoided any penalty.

If it was 2, then what unfair sporting advantage was gained, since he wasn't able to hold position after running off track?"

Perfectly put sir, taking that common sense into account and looking at the video evidence then how the hell are they coming up with such a conclusion?

I have watched this a lot now. Kimi is allowed to close the door yes. He is NOT however allowed to push Lewis off the track when he is (and he WAS) alongside him. (see videos posted.)

Regarding the run down to La Source: Lewis had a run on him yes. Lewis was along side him as they came out of whatever it is they are calling the Bus Stop these days, gave up the position, and then passed Kimi on THE OTHER SIDE in what I am utterly convinced was a fair fight under breaking for La Source that Kimi COULD have defended.

What makes a huge (insert sewar words here) sham of all this is that, now correct me if I am wrong here, on lap 2 Kimi had a very (more swearing) similar acceleration advantage by GOING OFF THE ROAD at La Source allowing him a run on Lewis which lead to a pass on the straight after Eau Rouge.

Fair?

You can see by my name on here who I support. I want my team to win fairly.

[Pinaster]

Richard, as usual you dont seem to understand anything, not the big nor the small picture.
Where were you when "Alonso was also been on the receiving end of blatant pro-Ferrari -or pro-LH- decisions?
Calling Alonso whiner and loser. Have some of your own medicine and dont worry, F1 will survive without "so many fans -LH fanatics- disillusioned once too often".

[Tunde Uche]

All this analysis of what Lewis should have done is pure poppycock! He is who he is a winner, a racer, comments like he should have let Kimi win and play the percentages game are you seriously kidding me!? If I wanted a machavellian driver, I'd chose Heidfeld to support. Jeez people wake up and smell the coffee - F1 just robbed itself of pedigree racing. That was a game changing drive by two of the very best drivers out there!! Kimi is going to comeback and pull something spectacular on Hammi, but guess what the stewards might class it as illegal. Please put your textbook away we're after all just armchair spectators in what is know becoming a circus.

[Neil, London]

I've just seen the footage from Lewis Hamilton's cockpit and, it is quite clear to me that he was taking avoiding action after Raikonnen barged him off the circuit.

Also the reason why he beats Kimi into turn 1 is not because he was slipstreaming, there wasn't enough time to get a tow. Lewis just outbrakes him into the corner.

UK F1 fans are accused of looking through rose tinted glasses at this incident. That's not correct. He did not have a competitive advantage by cutting the chicane because he let Kimi back past and Kimi had driven him off the road deliberately.

I'm sick of other supposed F1 fans being down on Lewis. They just don't like the fact that he is clearly better than the other drivers. Get off his back and stop "interpretting" the rules so that he is punished all the time.

Let's not forget that, in the last race at Valencia, Massa nearly wiped out Sutil at the pit stops and Ferrari got a poxy fine.

Why shouldn't we, as fans of F1 get upset at this blatant set of double standards.

[Matt Black]

What I find most amazing is that the FIA never passes up an opportunity to cheapen F1 by confusing the casual punter and appearing to arbitarily dish out inconsistent punishments and fix results so that the championship goes down to the wire… even to the extent that they nulify the result of the most exciting finish to race race for years.

What I find most sad is that the anti Hamilton brigade once again come out from their holes criticising him – this time for racing of all things… **** the wonderful racing, rules are rules even if they are clear as ditch water.

The FIA wasted another great opportunity. Without this post-race farce, the Belgian GP would have been fantastic advert for F1, no matter who won it on the track.

[Derek Smith]

A small point:

Kimi overtook LH under a waved yellow. At the speeds they were driving and the conditions I would suggest that a degree of sense should be used by the stewards when enquiring into the matter.

What they should not do is to ignore it:

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4116843,00.html

And I'm no great fan of Roebuck's writing but I respect him and would defer to him on F1 knowledge. When the likes of him post articles such as:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/2008/09/08/grand-prix-special-–-spa-francorchamps-nigel-roebuck/

you have to think there is something seriously amiss with our sport.

[A Parker]

Just read a report of an interview with Norbert Haug of McLaren who said: "he and Hamilton were on the way to the airport when they heard the ruling.

"Lewis turned to me and grinned, saying, 'Now we'll just have to win all the remaining (five) races.' I didn't contradict him - even if it's rather a lot.""

What a guy - if there is a God, he must win the WDC this year!

[Matt Black]

i think the main people that are being 'disillusioned' are the hamilton fans...

Posted by: todd | 8 Sep 2008 08:16:17

---------------------------------

No, you simply just don't get it do you? It's unbiased fans of great motor racing that are most disillusioned!

[F1-Inider]

The link given by Derek is visual proof of how Lewis had no option but to go off track and that he DID give the place gained back.
The fat he had more nerve than Kimi in going into the next corner is irrelevant, his actions should be applauded and not punished.
The buffoons at the FIA are a shame to what sport is supposed to be about, may the best man win, fair play etc.
What is it that the FIA (Max Mosley - he of the sex scandal) have against McLaren?
If ever there was a time for F1 to move away from the rotten FIA it is now as what should have been one of the best races and been turned into a complete sham and McLaren have been clipped again and we can all be certain that a certain person will be having a quiet word with McLaren telling them NOT to appeal or the end result could be worse. I hope Ron Dennis and McLaren do the right thing and fight this will all the resolve they can muster.
I felt so deflated after Valencia but my feelings now are those of despair.

[David]

ANON

Hi there, actually I said Kimi's maneouvre was fine, I'm just addressing the double standards generated by the stewards ignoring the accepted rule for returning the race position and basing their decision on the current FIA mantra (catch-all for Ferrari) 'sporting advantage'. You're wrong though on the count that the fact that the run-off at Pouhon has greater adherence, plus the less steep curve, meant Raikkonen gained speed on Hamilton he wouldn't have done had he returned to the track (with less grip) sooner.

[Richard]

ANTONIO - nobody has 'thrown dirt' about Villeneuve and Arnoux. They had a thrilling duel which has gone down in history as probably the best racing ever seen. They banged wheels on a number of occasions, and they both went off the track during the battle. No-one thinks any less of the drivers because they were on the ragged edge throughout. It's exactly the kind of thing most race fans would love to see but most have only ever seen this kind of thing on some blurry YouTube footage.

Yesterday we had another thrilling battle which is all too rare in F1 these days. I'm sure it delighted younger fans and brought back memories of classic encounters of the past for older fans.

Unfortunately, Spa 2008 will now be remembered for all the wrong reasons. I'm sure today's stewards could have found reasons to penalise at Dijon in 1979 so we should be thankful that our memories of that race survive intact.

In my mind, the decision of the stewards should have been easy because:

a) Kimi drove Lewis off the track in the first place giving him little choice but to cut the chicane
b) Lewis backed off and gave Kimi the lead again, even though Lewis was actually leading on the way into the chicane
c) It is inconclusive whether Lewis gained any advantage
d) Lewis was clearly much quicker at that point so he would have got past anyway
e) Kimi crashed out anyway so he didn't benefit from the penalty
f) Kimi gained advantage on a number of occasions at the beginning and at the end of the race by taking to the run-off areas. It looks like he didn't even attempt to take La Source on the first lap, his much wider line on the run-off must have contributed to the speed he had to pass him teammate shortly afterwards. Had Kimi received a penalty for this, the later incident would never have occured

[Angiox]

IT WASN'T PENALTY!!!! ARE YOU BLIND?

Uh! No! This is F1 and referees cannot commit mistakes.

Hamilton is like a football player who is always in the offside limit. Sometimes is offside and the referee doesn't see it (remember Monaco and Hungary last year) and other times he is not offside, but the referee see something weird and gives the penalty. So LH shouldn´t complaint, if F1 is a sport, referees are allowed to do mistakes.

By the way, this it not the case. The rule does not say that you should concede the position, but the advantage you gained. If there was no chicane, Hamilton had lost seconds since he should brake instead of overpassing Kimi. Hamilton did concede the position, but not the advantage (i.e. one or two seconds).

Hamilton said he felt that giving more room to Kimi would be unfair. Unfair is that he wasn´t penalysed during the race (drive through). Knowing LH, he could perfectly crash in the pit-stop entry. So he must thank the referees for allowing him to finish the race.

[Michael]

Sign a petition to the FIA. Over 12,000 signatures so far. Not that they'll give a damn, mind.

http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html

[Race Referree]

Rule 104, paragraph 2, subsection (a):

No car is allowed to win a race or overtake unless its a Ferarri. If you do accidently overtake a Ferarri you must immediately pull over to the side of the track and await a decision by the race director. However, regardless of the decision of the race director, the stewards may overrule that decision at any time, and demote you should you decide to continue the race and finish in front of a Ferarri. Any team considered to be better or equal to Ferarri will need to contact the race stewards before each race to find out which penalties will be awarded to them for being better than Ferarri. However, please note that surprise penalties will be awarded during the race, should you (1) overtake a Ferarri, (2) go near a Ferarri, (3) finish in front of a Ferarri, (4) Look at a Ferarri, or in any other way threaten Ferarri's position as No.1 team in Formula 1.

[Weasel]

The race results may or may not be what you think they are.

Any result based on fact is an illusion which may be revoked at will by an FIA enforced suspension of reality.

[ELCROWLEY]

"Last year, Lewis rightly and in a sportsmanlike manner said he did not want to win the championship in the courts but on the track as it would devalue the sport. I wonder if Massa will say the same. I doubt it."

HA HA HA HA, and that's why Mclaren filled a complaint in Brazil 07 about BMW and Williams fuel temperatures.

[A Parker]

Race Feferree, you had me in stitches despite this dreadful tragedy! Thanks for putting a well needed smile on my face.

[A Parker]

ElCrowley, please READ my post - I said LEWIS said that - that is a fact that I saw and heard with my own eyes and ears!!!

[Alex T]

Dear Ed

What a disgrace. The FIA`s apparent anti- McLaren bias is palpably evident. It seems that the FIA is making up the rules as they go along. Could you kindly tell me specifically which regulation Hamilton broke after he gave the position back to Kimi and re-passed him.

McLaren is the most prim and proper team in F1. They believe in full adherence to all the rules. However, there is something wrong with their relationship with the regulator. So could you explain what specifically did McLaren do to stimulate such apparently aggressive & relentless efforts by the FIA to apparently humiliate, humble, break and ultimately destroy that team.

The apparent intensity of the regulator’s hostilities toward McLaren is mystifying. Brutally draconian penalties, it seems, are usually reserved for and, imposed only on McLaren for all real or imagined infractions. Often at the speed of lightening. Something is wrong. Please Ed, tell us the hidden story.

Furthermore, one wonders whether the FIA also perceives McLaren to be a soft-touch or push-over because they often throw in the towel early for the good of the sport. Hopefully, they will stop that nonsense, stand on their principles & fight. We need McLaren to start saying, `enough is enough` they wont take it anymore

What makes these unfair penalties so disgusting & dangerous is that they create doubt and uncertainties in the minds of drivers. Each race, all drivers risk their lives to drive at breathtaking speeds while attempting daringly risky overtakings.

They are now more likely to become more risk averse erring on the side of self-doubt, caution and self-preservation. The sport of F1 will suffer

[David Harman]

The FIA could save themselves a great deal of time and the F1 Teams a great deal of money. All they have to do is rename F1 to Ferrari 1st, hand out the constructors championship on day one of the season at a very expensive dinner for Moseley and his poodles in Paris. Felipe and Kimi could toss for the drivers championship; problem solved can't see what all the fuss is about.

[Richard]

PINASTER - 'Where were you when "Alonso was also been on the receiving end of blatant pro-Ferrari -or pro-LH- decisions?
Calling Alonso whiner and loser'

It's funny how you seem to know what I was saying in '06 and '07 when I didn't even start posting here until 2008, I assume you must have pyschic powers.

For your information, I was incensed when Alonso was penalised at Monza for supposedly impeding a Ferrari, and I didn't agree with the grid penalty in Hungary last year because I thought it was an issue for the team to sort out.

Whether it's Alonso, or Hamilton receiving penalties, the beneficiary always seems to be Ferrari, and they often happen at a time when it keeps the championship very close throughout the season.

It seems that most people in the paddock believe that the FIA take a pro-Ferrari stance, and will always penalise McLaren whenever the opportunity arises, whether fair or not.

You say F1 will survive but there seems to be a universal disgust about yesterday's events, felt by supporters of all teams, and by all nationalities to an extent I've not seen before.

You really ought to move on from last year now, it must be eating you up, and apart from anything else, it's so boring

[ELCROWLEY]

Ham said Kimi went wide.... cooment, what a joke. Kimi did the chicane on race line and Ham was OUT of racing line on the middle of chicane.

[Xeron]

A Parker:
I read your post about what Hamilton said and it's not clear whether at the end is your opinion about Massa or it is still Hamilton own words.

[waj smith]

Just wonder what today's stewards would've made of Gilles Villeneuve and Rene Arnoux at Dijon in the 79 French Grand Prix.

[Antonio]

RICHARD - Anthony Currie posted:

"Like many I was reminded of the classic Villeneuve/Arnoux battle yesterday. I guess that if that race had been held in 2008 both drivers would have been penalised for going off the track occasionally and people would remember the race for the penalties incurred rather than the on-track action."

That's an utter lie. That race was clean even for today's standards and no steward would sue a penalty. That's what i call "throwing dirt". No driver took advantage of going off the track.

[Richard]

ALEX T - Sadly, McLaren knows the futility of fighting these things. The FIA can make the rules up as they go along (or at least the interpretation of them) and no-one is in a position to stop them. All it would do is distract the team from winning the remaining races.

[PTM]

How can they call it a race if they dont alow the driver to race each other?
IMHO this was the best race of 2008, I say 'was' because' after the penalty it became a farce not a race. I hope the future of F1 wont become a load Valencia(esk) track that can send everyone to sleep.
How sad that some of the spanish fans are still living bitterly in the past, you should take up Nadal example, he comes accross as one hell of a sportsman and person.

[Pau]

Ed,

my disgust with Formula One started in Hungary 2007.

Sorry, in Hungary 2006 when Schumacher cut at least twice the chicane to avoid Pedro de la Rosa overtake him. But I guess that day all the British were celebrating Jenson's victory and calling the Spanirds "sore losers".

[Richard]

ELCROWLEY - 'Kimi did the chicane on race line'

Really? Take a look at my earlier post at 11:46:42 this morning, I posted two YouTube clips showing firstly the normal line, and then the line Kimi took whilst defending against Lewis. They are so obviously not the same line.

[Vincent]

British fans: accept it and move on. Hamilton deserves his punishment.

He should learn to obey the rules and drive sensibly (there was no need for him to overtake Kimi because second position guaranteed him an 8-point lead over Massa).

I don not take British fans seriously because you all cried foul last year and accused FIA of favoring Ferrari when Hamilton's team stole from Ferrari.

You lacl objectivity. Sorry.

[A Parker]

Xeron, basically at the end of the WDC 2007 in Brazil, McLaren launched an appeal regarding the BMW and Williams cars breaching fuel regulations. When interviewed about it when the decision was pending, Lewis said he wouldn't want to win the championship that way, in the courts; he would rather do it on the track or it would devalue the sport. You know, the usual sporting, decent LH comment.

I was wondering if Massa would say the same about this decision and I very much doubt it. He would go up in my estimation if he said something of the kind. As it is, it takes a former triple WDC Niki Lauda to spell out the heinousness of this decision, when I would love it if all the current F1 drivers had some cojones and actually spoke out about it as well.