Nelson and Felipe

When it comes to Felipe, people look but they don't see. There is huge resistance to taking him seriously among the veteran contingent in the press room. At best they begrudgingly accept that he might have improved but that's about it. He will be champion - if he does make it this year - through no fault of his own, they would argue.

It was after meeting Felipe in Milan the other day and hearing him talk about his career that I fully understood just how bad he was in his first season for Sauber back in 2002(even he admits he was "wild" and deserved to be sacked at the end of it), and how much that has overshadowed him ever since. Those early performances have left an indelible mark on the journalists and commentators who saw them and it seems that, however much he achieves now, Felipe will be forever put down as, at best, second rate.

That is a pity. Not only does it suggest that, in this view, no one can improve in Formula One, it also flies in the face of the facts. Felipe made a couple of big errors at the start of the season but all the stuff about him not being able to cope in the post-traction control era has turned out to be nonsense. He has had bad days - Silverstone - but good ones in similar conditions(Monaco), and has made very few errors since the first two races. Just when he was supposed to be at his most vulnerable(new tracks at Valencia and Singapore) he has shone. He has out-driven Kimi, the reigning world champion, and left Lewis struggling in his wake on occasion during a season in which the Ferrari is certainly not in a completely different class to the McLarens.

It is worth remembering that when Michael announced his retirement at Monza in '06 he said words to the effect that one of the reasons he had decided to step aside was to make room for his team-mate(Felipe) and I'm pretty sure he said he wanted to help a driver he saw as up-and-coming and talented with it. People scoffed at this at the time but look what has happened since.

Anyway my point is that I was wondering whether Felipe's first season was comparable to Nelson's this year. Can you imagine Nelson ever being in contention for a world championship? Is that as unlikely for Nelson as it was for Felipe back in 2002? Who knows Nelson will probably get the boot from Renault at the end of this year and return to testing, just as Felipe did. In six years time he might be selling real estate in Sao Paulo or, if he learns and improves like Felipe, he could be fighting for his first world title with everyone muttering "yeah, but he's rubbish." 

Comments

[technojock]

Yeah, when Philippe first joined Ferrari there were a lot of raised eye-brows (mine included). Initially our scepticism seemed justified as he failed to deliver.

Eventually he started posting results, I recall the TV commentary at the time saying that Michael had had a word with him. Since then he's posted good results, reasonable consistency but never had the world champion sparkle about him.

One things for sure, if he ever wins a world championship he'll have worked for it, and earned it. After all, not even Ferrari saw him as their number 1 driver at the start of the season, he's had to earn that.

Final comment - if he wins this year I'd like to see him win by more than 6 points. It'll be tainted by Hamilton's controversial penalty after Spa, otherwise, and folks'll say he only won it because of the incestuous relationship between Ferrari/FIA.

[Lucas]

Hello Ed,

You have a point. Nelson has been maligned this year. Sure he has a mediocre session (apart his great drive to grab second place), but the likes of Sutil, Bourdais, Kovalainen, David Coulthard and even Jason Button (sorry guys) did not do better this year.

Being aligned against Fernando Alonso does not help either. It may have helped Hamilton but nobody should expect a rookie to compete with a world champion every time. Let's take Sutil, "brilliant" driver when compared to the likes of Yamamoto - still nobody offered him a better seat. And then he stayed at Force India to be beaten by veteran Fisichella. What Sutil is still doing in F1?

After saying that, Nelson does not deserve his seat at Renault (nor Kovalainen deserves his at McLaren). No top team should waste time with drivers that "struggle" (so Kimi and Heidfeld should go as well).

This does not mean that he should leave F1, he should be moved to a smaller team to develop his skills. If a seat needs to be available for him, Bourdais and Sutil should go...

[pierre]

Reading the comments on the recent Ed articles, I am sad to say this blog has degenerated into a sad worthless senseless play-ground bitch fight, with various people trying to prove they are their drivers biggest fan. Sad. It used to be informative, with opinions being shared about F1 issues and how the season would go...

Examples (to pick on a couple of people):

A PARKER: C'mon, what are you like? I am a Ham supporter, but I don't understand you. You are obsessed to the point of it being unhealthy. You write as if you know the guy very well, like you're his brother or something. I bet you've never even met him, or seen him in person. You don't have a clue what he's like, what he thinks, and more importantly what he thinks of Alonso. Yet you write as if you're his spokesman. I've even read your words "thank you for your kind words about Lewis" as if you're his Dad or something?! Get a grip on things.

JAVIER, ELPONSO etc, you represent the other side, you worship Fernando and Lewis is the devil. What is wrong with you people? I am certain you all hate Lewis much more than Fernando himself! Even when Fernando, at all odds in an inferior car wins, you are still bitter and twisted!

My suggestions:

Let's all accept that all drivers at this level are excellent and talented people, otherwise they wouldn't be in F1.

Let's all accept we each support our own people, and won't necessarily agree on everything...

Let's all agree not to indulge in a d1ck comparing competition (I'm a bigger fan than you, and I 'know' my driver more than you)...

Let's all accept that everyone has their own opinion, enjoy what is turning out to be a fantastic climax to a year, and be civil to each other. I don't want to read any more posts about driver's personalities written by people who have never met them.

And please, no more analysing handshakes! We are not schoolkids! Nor are we shrinks.

I lay my cards on the table:

I am a Ham fan.

I think he needs to learn to shut his mouth a lot.

I think Fernando suffers from the same problem (with his mouth).

But I think Fernando also is hugely talented and deserved to win Singapore, regardless of the SC. He exploited the opportunity more than any of the others. He is a natural, one of the best. (please to the Fernando lunatics, don't thank me for these kind words).

I think Ham will win the WC, but it will be very close.

I think McLaren will almost give it away with another stupid strategy call.

I think this blog will improve, and people will stop slagging each other off, and that the cloud of hate will blow away...

Pierre.

[Stelmara]

Ed
Off topic but I ask again ask: could you please advise us what is happening about the LIE email as sent to McLaren from the FIA's legal department and it's alleged source Charlie Whiting?

As a respected journalist it would appear to me that rather than pursuing this that the email is being well and truly being berried never to be mentioned again (why)?. From where I stand and follow F1 this is a huge news story and considering what went on last year with the FIA and McLaren the fact that a lie of this substance, made in writing, can be sent to McLaren from the FIA's legal team to enhance their case against the McLaren appeal (subsequently, conveniently found to be inadmissible - shock).

The fact that McLaren were not able to trust an official document sent from the FIA's legal team is *** words escape me(**&*&*. Please do not allow fear of reprisal by Max (yesyesyes) Mosley's FIA stand in the way of getting to the facts here ad exposing whoever is the liar. If it is who it is alleged it is then his position has to be called into question does it not?

An answer would be welcomed and I'm sure by many others as well.

Trusting you will both read and publish this.

Stella

Assuming this is published and you are reading it does anyone else have an opinion on this?

Ed writes:
Hi Stella
I have nothing on this at the mo. I have some stuff on a related topic which I hope to use soon.
Ed

[Rodrigo]

While Felipe had to carve his way all the way up to F1, sleeping in trailers and garages and spending the whole day with the mechanics, Nelsinho had protection and money from his famous dad since the first time he put a helmet on; this is actually year that he is not racing for a team with the name Piquet in it. This might be the reason why Nelsinho displays so little self-confidence, reminiscent more of Antonio Pizzonia than Massa or Barrichello. Like Pizzonia, I would bet Nelsinho will be running on lower formulas in a few years, there's no place for him in F1, unfortunately. It's time for Bruno Senna and Lucas Di Grassi.

[George]

Oddly, it was Felipe's car control in that wild year that first got me thinking he could win a championship. It reminded me of a young Giles.

If only someone could get him to drive just a tency bit less far outside his cars ability. A Mentor if you will and then Schuey stepped up to the plate and I really think he's only going to get better, unlike a certain other new boy who hasn't seemed to improve or learn from the mistakes of his first season.

[Agustin]

I think Felipe has no skills under rain and under close preasure from another competitor. But I think he is a very good driver in any other aspect and I sincerely respect his hunger for victory and the fact that he is a true fighter who doesn't give up. He's not a great champion, but he would make a worthy world title winner at least for once.

[Erik]

What Felipe also did in his first year was to show a lot of speed, something Nelson has so far failed to do.

[IDR]

First of all, we don't really know anything about the drivers. We just create an image arround them based on what we see on the track and what is told in the press about them.

So, I know my oppinion about Felipe is quite subjective and someway not real.

That said, Felipe, as a man, doesn't projects the personality (and/or self confidence) one expects from a Champion.

On the driving or technical side, I thought Felipe was not consistent enough for winning a Championship, and I have said this in many occassions.

But honestly talking, I must say Felipe has proved I'm wrong, looking at what he has done during the second part of this season.

If he finally wins, he will deserve it and he will deserve it much more than Kimi last year. Kimi was loosing the championship up to the moment Felipe "let" him take the 1st position in his home track.

Finally, Nelsinho. As in life, not everybody can learn fast, and for him, to have a 2WDC as team mate is a large shadow for growing.

Renault team should really know if there is some potential in Nelsinho to spend another season with him or not.

Now there are some rumours that Renault is dealing with Toro Rosso... who nows.

[Derek Smith]

I must admit to being one of those who dismissed him as something of a joke. Last year he may have improved but it was from a very low level and to me, the first races of the season backed up my opinion of him.

But I was wrong, I can see that now. Okay, so it's obvious. I don't know what brought about this transformation but I missed its development. I must admit I expected that he might revert to his old self after Silverstone as it must have been a massive blow to his self confidence. (I seem to remember that I picked him to come in the top 3 so you can see that it was a massive blow to my confidence in him.) But since then he's been tremendous.

It is clear that the performance of the McLaren and the Ferrari vary tremendously at different cicruits and in different conditions - and isn't it great that they do.

He and LH fighting for the WDC has been the highlight of this season. Even the FiA haven't been able to ruin it. Mind you, they might feel they still have time.

There's a certain similarity between him and Hunt. He was regarded as something of a joke but then took the championship in some style.

Well done, Massa. I like nothing better than to be proved wrong in my opinion of a driver. At least upwards. I'm so sorry that Kimi hasn't even approached my expectations of him.

[Anon (and his big paragraph)]

I don't think Felipe is being criticized for his tenure at Sauber.

I think the problem with him is he has no fighting spirit. Never have we been impressed by his rage, demeanor, overtaking passes. We've seem Kimi in Japan '07, Lewis in Britain '08, Fernando in Hungary '06- all great, powerful drives. Even not in the wet we've seen great drives from them, but never from Felipe.

Felipe's sole asset is speed. I personally think he is the fastest driver in F1. In raw speed, both quali and race, he is simply the fastest. When you give him a solid grid position or a race lead, nothing can stop him. He has an affinity for some circuits like Bahrain, Turkey, and Brazil where he is simply unbeatable. It's pretty awesome.

But no charges down the field, no dramatic overtaking of a rival (with the exception of Hungary '08), no bravado.

He simply doesn't seem manly or angry enough.

I think the way he is he is simply not meant to be a fighter. He has the personality (see his argument with Fernando after Germany '07) but never the amount of awe-inspiring zeal.

Nelson- what a disaster. This guy was supposed to finish off Fernando and become Lewis's future rival. What a fall from glory. Is it possible that a driver that was amazing in GP2 just not be good in F1? The sad thing is is that if he doesn't succeed in these three last races, he might never have an F1 career. Fernandohas completely mastered him. To think his dad, a triple champ, said that Nelsinho had to beat Fernando in the first session to demoralize him...

Some people were hoping that pairing Fernando and Lewis with different teammates would give us the verdict on which driver is better or got advantaged last year. Both of them have dominated their teammates with flying colors, albeit with Fernando achieving a greater status of dominion in every domain. But then again, most people think Heikki is a much better driver than Nelsinho.

Renault fired Fisi- I think it wasn't that great a move. Fisi has dominated Adrian pretty well. I think he suffered from having a teammate he knew he should beat. With Fernando, there was no question that he was second driver. I think pairing him up with Fernando again would not be such a bad decision.

Luca di Grassi wants Nelsinho's seat, why not. Flavio is bad at handling rookies and nothing says that Fernando won't beat him again like he beat Nelson.

But who knows. It is interesting to see that Timo is only six points off of Jarno. My dad thinks he will surpass Jarno by the end of the year.

Rubens and Jenson are pretty evenly matched. Jenson has led most of the way but Rubens knows how to make the most of his opportunities. I think it would be sad to see him go. He has done more than enough this season to prove his talent.

[Kormak]

"he could be fighting for his first world title with everyone muttering "yeah, but he's rubbish."

Really he (Hamilton) is.

[Richard]

DEREK - I remember the 1976 season well, I had a great rivalry with a school mate who was a Ferrari/Lauda fan, and I was cheering Hunt on to win the title.

Things don't change much in 32 years - Ferrari v McLaren, and a number of contentious penalties issued by the governing body. If you'd have written the script for the 1976 season, people would say it was too far fetched.

Looking back now, I wouldn't say Hunt won the title with style particularly - in my eyes, it will always be diminished slightly due to Lauda's accident - Lauda didn't win another race all season whereas he'd beaten Hunt by 5 races to 2 in the first 9 races of the season i.e. before the Nurburgring incident. I still marvel at Niki Lauda's bravery in getting back to racing so soon after almost being killed.

[Prostonso]

Felipe,

From the brasilian tradition we've always seen brave, courage, insane (regarding overtakes) and never give up drivers. I can remember very well Emerson, Nelson or Ayrton.

Ok this is one point, but are we really get used to see over last years from brasilian drivers such an attitude? Not at all, let's see Rubens, Felipe and now Nelsinho.

Hey, do not loose the focus, are these last three bad drivers? No way, I think something has changed indeed, the kind of driving nowadays is good drivers, always trying to be on the pace, but not brilliant in terms of show a real standard. I mean overtakes, full throttle, over the edge, show no mercy, etc. is something missed in F1 nowadays.

I remeber Nelson in Hungary making a rally overtake on Ayrton in 1986, that was a real high quality maneuver, sliding and crossing the F1 just like Group B rally car style.

OK, now think Ayrton driving with that piece of crap McLaren Ford compared to Wiliams Renault 1993, that was bravery on the sit in order to achieve some victories, he showed what a driver can do in worse conditions.

Today, just a few drivers show what racing is all about, I can think on Alonso, Hamilton, anyone else that actually show us some show on the track? real show I mean, no I do not think so.

But going back in the subject, Felipe, dissapointing drive? No way, he has proved to be very consistent from the third race, though it was big pressure on his shoulders, scoring points regularly and despite some bad luck he is still on contention for the WDC. Ok he drives a Ferrari, but what about Kimi?

My respect to a driver who can manage this amount of pressure in such a big team against such a good rival as Hamilton-McLaren.

In racing like in real life is not like you start but as you finish. Let's give some credit to Felipe, without him the WDC would be already sold out to Lewis, so nice to see him race, and nice to watch a championship so close as it was last year.

Kind regards,

Prostonso

[John]

Do you remember last year when Kimi took the extra fuel burn lap from Massa? On SpeedTV Peter Windsor interviewed Massa and Massa seemed not to deny that it happened, but rather a complete lack of understanding of the fact that any advantage was at stake.

It wasn't the typical situation where a driver knows what happened, but refuses to get drawn into a messy interview. He seemed genuinely confused by the line of questioning.

I thought then that Massa just might not be intellectual enough to be a WDC. That must be why Schumacher thinks he can help. Massa has the ability, he just needs someone to help him think. The problem with that is that Schumacher's brain i the car was equally if not more important than his brain in the car.

[Julio]

Just a quick note: people in Brazil used to call Felipe in his early days as "Nigel Massa".

[David Jones]

Stella
I am glad you brought this up as it does seem that this is being swept under the carpet by the media to no doubt the satisfaction of Max (Ooooohh) Mosley and his cronies at the FIA.
I read with interests Ed's comments and I look forward to reading what it is in the near future.
On the email I am amazed how so called F1 fans have just excepted it as normal stuff and are not alarmed about it at. All fair F1 fans should be aware that the integrity and fairness of the official race director is in question as not only has he allegedly told the FIA's legal department a lie, in doing so he has also shown a bias against McLaren has he not?
Ed I cannot understand how the official race directors position is not under review.
Ed. please do not allow this story to get lost by other events as, in my view, it is an event that could be the watergate of F1 (trickle here trickle there - lets not forget this was an untruth told to the FIA's legal team who subsequently advised McLaren of this lie in a written document regarding an upcoming FIA court of appeal case). Surely the court of appeal should have a view on this , I don't know it's late at night and reading other comments others don't seem to be bothered about it. I'm with Stella and don't think this should be allowed to be dropped, heads should roll ZZZZzzzzz So tired so after posting this I'm off to bed - night all.

[Michael Grinks]

I'm one of those that always thought of Felipe as an also ran. But I'm apparently wrong. He has driven very well this year and if he wins (and he just might) his actions will have spoken louder than his critic's words.

[javiervivaespania]

Pierre, Pierre,...
What the heck are you talking about?
Neither El Ponso or myself hate Hamilton.
I said once last year that he was our enemy, and since then I have had enough words praising him.

I respect him and I think this should be kept as a dispute between gentlemen. We fight each other but we can have a drink afterwards in the all-lads club and laugh loud. Then we come back to the arena and enter the fray again. No harm intended, only honor and victory.

Anyway, the more we talk about Felipe and Nelson, the more we ought to admire Lewis for what he did last year. He learnt a lot from our champion but his curriculum in the Formula A World Cup, the Formula Renault UK, the Formula 3 Euroseries and the GP2 series is astounding. Unfortunately he was misled by Ron Dennis last year and wanted to jump over the two times and only real Champion at that moment, our Fernando. Unfortunately, we cannot enjoy the fight this year. I hope we can do that soon in the coming years.

Anyway, Felipe and Nelson are good drivers, but well well behind our Champion and the British candidate to the title. Felipe has been severely critized in Spain but only because everyone wanted him to give way to Fernando at Ferrari. I would never be his supporter because there are many others more skilled and sympathetic to me. However, he has raced fast and won Grandes Prix. He gets a valuable help from Michael at the garage and that helps, of course. Nelson does not look too promising but who knows. There is room for improvement. But if Fernando, Hamilton and Vettel continue having good stuff to handle and drive they shouldn't have the slimmest chance.

[Derek Smith]

Richard,

Were you at Brands that day (I can't remember seeing you) when there was the demo by the crowd? Great fun. I remember some old boy - about 5 years younger than I am now - beside me saying that in all his years of following F1 he could not remember another time when someone had been disqualed for the same reason.

As you say, there's lots of similarity. One could, looking at it in the the way some feel about the Spa penalty (another unique event) the number of wins to the two combatents was about equal.

At the time I thought he lucked into the championship but a few years later I was chatting to a group who were involved in F1 then - not mcLaren - and they were singing his praises, saying that he was a phenominal talent, although much of it was unrealised. His final race showed real nerve but all the reporting seemed to be about Lauda's behaviour.

When I checked back through that year - I kept all the F1 reports from Autosport - I must admit that I was convinced I had underestimated him.

He was always worth watching, though, which is much more important than winning the WDC. Unlike many in the sport, Hunt put more into it than he took out.

[Igor]

Hi, Pierre! I fully agree with you about the pros and cons of Hamilton and Fernando. I also admit that I am a fan of Alonso, but I believe this year Hamilton will win the championship because he deserves it. No nuances should be said about it.

I wish Fernando goes to Ferrari to enjoy very interesing championships during the next year, with a real duel between Lewis and Fernando, possibly with other talented drivers with the same aim as well.

[Tim]

Interesting comparison between Felipe Massa and Nelson Piquet Jr.

Massa's debut season for Sauber in 2002 was disappointing for different reasons.

Firstly, it came in the wake of Kimi Raikkonen's sensational debut for Sauber the previous year, which bypassed the traditional feeder formulas of F3 and F3000 (GP2 as was) came straight from Formula Renault. Before Raikkonen's GP debut, there were mutterings that he didn't so much as deserve a superlicence - then he scored a point in his first race. Kimi had been one of the standout drivers of 2001, beating his team mate and then-McLaren protege Nick Heidfeld to a drive with Ron Dennis' team for 2002.

It was a sensational debut and much was expected of Felipe for 2002. After all, he'd come a similar route to Kimi (Formula Renault, but the more difficult Eurocup) but with the added experience of the European F3000 series (the mainly Italian based championship, not the international series). In the wake of Raikkonen, Peter Sauber appeared to have an incredible talent for spotting up and coming young drivers. How could Massa go wrong?

Spectacularly, it turned out. Felipe just wasn't ready for F1. He was often very quick but he was inconsistent, ragged and also crashed a lot. Heidfeld, having been rejected for the McLaren seat he thought was his, wasn't exactly shining in 2002 and he still beat Massa - the comparison was not helpful and Felipe was duly sent off to Ferrari finishing school for 2003.

Massa has since tamed the worst of his excesses and become much more a much more consistent driver. However, he's still too inconsistent and makes too many mistakes - had he not spun out of second place in Malaysia this year, for example, he'd be leading the championship by a point. Unfortunately for Felipe, Ferrari have compounded his mistakes with pitlane errors and reliability problems, but I digress.

Nelson Piquet, on the other hand, came up to F1 via the conventional route - British F3, GP2 (where he challenged Lewis Hamilton for the title up until the last race) and F1 testing. Like Massa, Nelson has struggled to be consistent in his debut season - but unlike Felipe he's not been quick very often. Why? Is this a reflection on him as a driver or simply the scale of the task he was presented with at Renault?

Nelson's last season in GP2 was impressive, especially in hindsight, as Nelson appeared to be almost as quick as Lewis and almost as good a racer. Given how well Hamilton did against Fernando Alonso in 2007, Piquet should logically be around and about at Alonso's pace at Renault this year - but he isn't.

I've been surprised at just how badly Nelson has done in 2008 - his main highlights have been a fortunate second place in Germany and beating Alonso in France. But Fernando has often struggled to do very much with this year's Renault, so perhaps Piquet's problems are connected with an awkward car that's not generally on the pace anyway.

Comparisons with Lewis' rookie season last year are, I think, unfair - Lewis had a car that wasn't always the quickest but was generally well sorted and responsive to set up changes. I wouldn't suggest that Piquet would have been a revelation at McLaren in 2007, but Renault are very much focussed around Alonso and I suspect this has also contributed. But Nelson has also made some silly mistakes which could have been overlooked had he shown a decent turn of speed or results at other points in the year - as with Timo Glock, to an extent.

Felipe's problem was inconsistency rather than speed, but Nelson has a problem with both. Will we be watching Piquet battle for a world title in a few years hence, as we're now seeing with Massa? I doubt it, but mainly because it looks like Flavio has made his mind up and Nelson is going to be out of F1 in any meaningful sense at the end of 2008.

[Derek Smith]

Good post, Tim.

Perhaps Piquet's problem is the car. Whilst FA seems able to drive around the lack of development at some circuits, it's asking a lot of a young driver, even one as experienced in other formulae as NP, to come in at this level and develop the car. It does make one wonder what support is being given to him. FA made it clear at McLaren how he expected to be treated in relation to his team mate and NP hasn't the results to challenge it.

Has NP the elder contributed in any way to renault for taking his kid? If he has and the recession continues, it will be a rash team owner who throws him out for next season where they might only be able to afford one front running car.

He does seem out of his depth though, doesn't he. He should be fast but fragile, that's the classic young thruster.

F1 does sort the talented from those who merely aspire to the position.

[Jordi]

Ed

I noticed that a few people have complained about their post not been published, it looks like now its my turn.

You mentioned that the blog is now been managed by an outside company. For the benefit of the blog and bloggers you need to have a word with these guys. It takes sometimes more than 24hours to update a post and appears that quite a few of them get lost. (will this one get lost too?)

I have seen blogs from NBA in USA that update the post almost "Live", which means more interaction between bloggers, better communication, more post. The Times must have the technology to do that.

Just a thought.

What I said in that now lost in cyberspace post was that I agree with Pierre, although a bit of passion is also interesting to read.

It took me ages to write that post!

Regards

[Edward Barrett]

Massa is a good driver, but not exactly the kind of No.1 driver for a team like Ferrari. He's mostly conservative in races, never risks too much, generally wins when things are running smooth for him and usually fails when something unexpectedly turns against -not really the kind of guy prone to overcome with talent or tactics every adverse circumstance aroused. Fits perfectly in the No.2 role -just as Barrichello fitted- always earning valuable points for the team and shielding driver No.1's advantage.

As to me, to this very moment Hamilton is the best driver on the grid. Alonso could be the more experienced one, along with Kimi, but the latter has apparently forgot how to drive a F1 vehicle (maybe he should give a try with motorcycles, he seems to get along better with that) while Alonso is a hotheaded, boasting arrogant who has thrown the most of his possibilities with his move to Renault.

[McCheets]

It is a shame that some people feel the need to discuss a completely irrelevant issue in this thread. It is interesting to note that none of them called for Matt Bishop’s head to roll after the Renault-related misinformation that he propagated.

Anyway, back to the topic of this thread.

Many journalists from the British contingent of the motorsport media seem to be innately prejudiced against Felipe Massa, and to understand the root cause of this phenomenon it is necessary to first go back to the year 2000, when Jenson Button entered the F1 scene.

Jenson was 19 years old when he signed for Williams, and 20 by the time of his first race. The hyperbole surrounding his entrance into F1 was ludicrous even by the standards of the highly-sensationalist British media. Article after article was published proclaiming him as the new British sporting messiah, a depiction which it is fair to say he did not try to dispel.

Following his competent but not spectacular debut season, where it is fair to say he rarely had the better of the competent but not spectacular Ralf Schumacher, Jenson moved on to Benetton for 2001.

That was the same year that Kimi Raikkonen, another young driver who reached F1 at warp speed, began his F1 career with the Sauber team. The disparaging tone with which his signing was presented by the British motorsport media – an accident waiting to happen – was downright disgraceful. When the FIA announced that, owing to is relatively small racing experience, Raikkonen would be racing under probation for a period of time which I know forget, many British motorsport journalists shouted with joy.

The most likely reason for this behaviour is because Kimi was viewed as a direct threat to Jenson. Raikkonen impressed beyond belief from the outset, shutting his detractors up from the moment that he drove his Sauber onto the Albert Park tarmac, and was signed up for McLaren for the 2002 season. Jenson, on the other hand, was resoundly thrashed by the competent but not spectacular Fisichella for the next two seasons, and subsequently by the competent but not spectacular Trulli in 2003. The first time that he was able to assert himself over a team-mate was when he was paired with one of the highest-paid whingers that the world has ever seen, Jacques Villeneuve. He was also quicker than Sato, but so were at least two other team-mates of the latter.

Alonso’s debut in 2001 was overlooked by Jenson’s supporters in the British media because he was in what was far and away the slowest car in the grid, and therefore was never going to be a threat to the boy wonder. When Renault announced that Button had been dumped for Alonso mid-way through 2002, the decision was treated with derision by the British media contingent of the Jenson Button fan club - it wasn’t long before Alonso’s performances silenced them.

In 2002 Sauber signed Massa, another young driver who had accelerated through the lower formulae, hence another threat to the status of Jenson Button as the alleged boy wonder of F1 (the fact that Raikkonen had clearly taken this mantle was lost on such people). Unlike Raikkonen, Massa had a far from stellar debut season, which caused great satisfaction amongst Jenson’s fans in the British media.

In his return season of 2004, Massa was still erratic and more often and not bettered by the competent but not spectacular Fisichella. In 2005, there were mistakes, Massa but made a far greater contribution to his team than the perennial whiner, Jacques Villeneuve.

So in their early careers, both drivers had been resoundly beaten by Fisichella, but generally performed better than Villeneuve. However, it is fair to say that Button fared better against Villeneuve than Massa.

One thing that many agreed on from the outset was that Massa would be blindingly quick, if only he could learn how to channel his talent effectively. Beyond his claques within the British media, there aren’t too many people who constantly sing the praises of Jenson Button in such a manner. (Quite why Frank Williams and Dave Richards were both so interested in employing the latter is something that only they know.)

When Massa signed for Ferrari in 2006, he found an environment where it was possible to untap his potential. Many in the British media scoffed that he was only signed because he was managed by Jean Todt’s son. Perhaps they were worried that he might prove to be a more successful driver than Jenson? Both drivers scored their maiden victories at a similar time, however since then Massa has made massive leaps forward (with the occasional error). Indeed there have been a number of occasions were he has totally dominated proceedings. On the other hand, since the commencement of the 2007 season Jenson’s performances have ranged from competent but not spectacular to downright abysmal.

One of the by-products of Hamilton’s phenomenal career to date has been the relegation of Jenson to an also-ran in British media coverage, however there are many in the British media who still struggle to come to terms with the fact that Massa is trouncing their (out-dated by now) boy wonder. One particular journalist periodically presents pseudo-scientific analyses which supposedly demonstrate one of the following: that Jenson really is wonderful; that Massa is a second-tier driver who got lucky; or that other drivers, presumably Jenson, would fare much better than Massa if only they were in his position.

Given that Massa has generally out-performed Raikkonen this season, whereas Jenson has been anonymous against the competent but not spectacular Barrichello, the delusional nature of such ramblings is readily apparent. It is unlikely that the journalists who present these views will ever be able to come to terms with the fact that Massa is highly competent, presumably because doing so will be an implicit acknowledgement that Jenson was never as good as they wanted him to be – which is demonstrated by the fact that most of the F1 drivers of a similar age to him, who made their debuts in the early part of the 2000s, have done far better than him.
I don’t consider Massa to be the driver of this season, but if he were to win the drivers’ championship I would consider him to be highly worthy champion – fare more than some of the drivers who have claimed their ultimate prize.

Anybody who has managed to get through this will see that, until now, I have not mentioned McLaren or Ron Dennis once!

[McCheets]

I find the comments on Hunt/Lauda in 1976 very interesting. When I first started following F1, a relatively short time ago by the standards of this forum, all of the articles relating to 1976 that I read left me with the impression that Hunt did not deserve the championship. However, in recent years there have been many articles which portray his season in a more favourable light.

Was he treated unfairly at the time, and for some time afterwards, or is he being looked back on now with rose-tinted spectacles?

[Richard]

DEREK - sadly, I wasn't at the race, but I wish I was. It would be great to see the crowd riot these days, maybe they'd string Mosley up and whip him...no of course he'd enjoy it too much.

Considering his off track lifestyle, I'm sure Hunt must have been a phenomenal driver, but I still can't see he would have won the title had Lauda not had his accident. I read once that he always got so wound up before a race that he vomited. That would make Brundle's grid walks quite colourful!

[Derek Smith]

Richard,

I often used to vomit before going into court, I got that keyed up. Oddly enough, it used to settle me. If ever I was asked about it I used to say that if it was good enough for Hunt . . .

I agree, Richard, that if Lauda hadn't had his accident Hunt would not have won the championship. But if he'd been pulled out of the car 20 seconds later . . .

MCheets,

The media, especially the specialised press, seemed to dislike Hunt because he wasn't the 'normal' F1 driver. Motor Sport irritated me with their attitude but they did have a holier than thou approach to what they called the 'kit car' teams. They seemed to worship lauda. I always wondered if other mags took their lead from Motor Sport.

Hunt was great to see driving and livened the sport. He scored more points than anyone else despite some questionable rulings. So my opinion is he's well worth the WDC.

And in any case, the WDC is an artifical embellishment of F1. People don't deserve it, all they do is get more points than anyone else. Even if it is only 1/2 a point.

[Steven]

Massa was far better than Nelson in his first year. Massa always had the speed (Peter Sauber said once that he would consider Felipe as faster than Kimi and he knows what he´s talking about as both were driving for him), but his constancy was his problem. Piquet Jr. has neither speed nor constancy (, he is constancy slow...)

[brabazon]

Felipe reminds me of Damon Hill a bit - great driver when he's just racing the clock and himself and coasting around in 1st place from pole to chequered flag, but gets flustered and makes mistakes when put under pressure by other drivers.

He lost face badly for me as soon as he was pressurised into making a bad mistake in Malaysia 2007 by a rookie who was driving in only his 2nd race. He's just one of those drivers who, like Hill, doesn't seem to have confidence to aggressively attack and try overtaking - preferring to play it safe and hold station for the points. Alonso and Lewis are solid drivers who can easily control a race from the front, but the difference is that they are also real racers with a killer instinct and enough confidence and skill to fight aggressively without making a hash of it.

Felipe at Silverstone this year was just a joke. He may win the 2008 title on or off the track, but he will never be considered a 'great' driver, based on current evidence - in the same way that Damon Hill will never be considered a 'great' driver.

To be honest, I don't even think Ferrari or the FIA have 100% faith in him to do the job - hence when Raikkonen (the only driver who most people thought could bring the fight to Lewis) crashed out at Spa they panicked and penalised Lewis for an infringement which ordinarily would probably have been overlooked. I genuinely believe that if Kimi had finished 2nd at Spa (and Ron hadn't looked so happy on the podium!) there wouldn't have been a penalty for McClaren, as Raikkonen would have been back in the title hunt, and it would have been game on. But because Lewis just totally humiliated Ferrari in those last few laps we got what we got and blah, blah, blah...

But now Ferrari have begrudgingly put their eggs in the Felipe basket for the rest of the season - like they did with Irvine in '99 - and the same lack of attention that lead them to have only 3 wheels ready for Irv in the pits at a crucial point in the c'ship is starting to creep in again. I genuinely don't think that Ferrari have 100% belief that they can win it on the track with Felipe in a straight fight.

If it looks like Lewis is going to paste him in the last few races I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few more 'controversial' incidents...

Interesting to hear that the journalists in the press room don't rate Felipe either, though...

[PaulM]

Sorry to go off the theme, but... I filled in an ING questionairre. Biggest poll ever, apparently. But it's slanted towards the answers they want, lousy options to select from and most importantly no question like "do you want tracks like singapore where overtaking is difficult or places like silverstone?"

[Nomassafan]

Massa is a threat to win any given race if the following apply: 1) He has the fastest car in the field 2) He has pole position and is in first place at the first corner 3) He does not have to pass anyone other than a lapped car for the entire race 4) The weather is not a factor.....if any of this criteria is not met, he has no chance of winning the race......when it's all said and done, he is a mediocre driver blessed with a top car, a very influential mentor and solid connections within Ferrari through his manager.

[Mrs Bishop]

@PAULM
I also took that on friday, i completely agree!
When asked what was the BEST part of singapore, it by NO means covered what was BAD about singapore! I ended up chosing the option that it was interesting to see how the drivers changed sleeping paterns! because seriously that was the best part for us common people!

I also put strongly agree when asked wether they should keep traditional tracks! [silverstone]

And strongly disagree that they should risk losing more europeon races for new tracks!

Incedently sooo pleased theres no race on my birthday week this year! I swear my birthdays cursed! Knowing my luck, Lewis would get banned from the rest of the season! TOUCH WOOD!!!! XD

[McCheets]

NOMASSAFAN

Clearly you didn't watch the opening lap of this year's Hungarian race.

[McCheets]

DEREK SMITH

I have been given a similar impression about the media not liking Hunt. I once read a book of champion profiles by Keith Bosworth (can't remember the title of the book now, took it to the op-shop when moving). His account of Hunt was most derogatory.

Whilst I never saw Hunt race, I enjoyed his commentary, even if I didn't always agree with what he had to say.

I have been given the impression that the 1/2 a point championship victor wasn't the most deserving champion either, but these claims tend to be written by a couple of people who never have anything positive to say about Lauda.

[Boyd]

Sir, I am american, been racing 40 years - started with Jim clark and Colin. When you speak of F1, you are speaking of a very few individuals that can drive at that level. Weather they win or loose is not the point - They have the gift. I will take a F1 driver and put him in FIA endurence, NASCAR, IMSA, SCCA PRO and win long before he is selling real estate. You Europeans do not understand what it realy takes to WIN - you just toss people around on one or two races and say " on with the next Driver". You should try driving in competion some time - see what it is like - see the dangers - see the HARD work required - risk YOUR LIFE.

[Richard]

BOYD - "You Europeans do not understand what it realy takes to WIN"

Why do you choose to make this a European isssue, I suppose it's so different in the USA, is it?

More importantly, at least the European drivers understand what it takes to win in F1, unlike American drivers judging by the efforts of Michael Andretti and Scott Speed. I'd try to find some more examples, but there aren't many American drivers coming into F1 for some reason. Perhaps they find all those corners and chicanes a bit too difficult? Or maybe they think real racing cars should be made from scaffolding and pig iron, not carbon fibre and titanium.

[Anon (and his big paragraph)]

Richard: complete agreement!

[Mrs Bishop]

*CRINGE* NO offence, but some times americans cheese me out more than ozzy soaps!

I risked my life once! I tried walking down the stairs backwards, it was hard work and i quickly hit a safety gate cracking my head open...not a good idea.
As for me being a european, although i prefer to call myself English [i've never been abroad, and like the traditional name], i wouldn't dare touch a car, as i do not know what it takes to WIN!

[Philip N]

I think the bad press Massa has is because of his mistakes. I remember seeing him at Silvestone in a Sauber in 2002 and he could barely keep the thing on the road. Ferrari have really missed a trick not signing Alonso as Kimi is lazy and Massa - although good- is no great. To be fair the guy works like crazy and has the sense to listen to the Schue so what he lacks in ability he makes up for elsewhere.

[Fer]

Richard: totally agree with you.

Fer

[Thomas]

It is interresting that the opinion of Felipe Massa is so different from the facts, especially considering the stellar season he has personally enjoyed. Massa spun in the 2nd race of the season, and had a bad race at Silvestone, especially after the team gave him the wrong tyres. However the Ferrari is a pig in the wet, and Kimi Räikkönen was also spinning at Silverstone.

The questions of what happend in both Melbourne and at Silverstone are interresting ones. Why was Ferrari so out of it in the season opener, when they were clearly the fastest team the next rounds? Why were they so bad in the Silverstone wet when they were the shock stars of Monaco? (well, quali. Get it right already Ferrari. Geez.)

Lewis Hamilton has only beaten Massa on track thrice this year: Silverstone, Spa and Germany. That would have been twice if not for damaged red brakes in Germany. Eh, lets say thrice because we don't count team mistakes and reliability, and McLaren should have pitted Lewis. Kimi Räikkönen, the reigning world champion, has only taken points from Felipe ONCE; in Spain.

So Felipe made one bad mistake (spin in race #2) and had two bad races, but we don't know why. His main rival made a serious mistake in Bahrain (forgot launch mode then saw it fitting to hit Alonso) then drove into the back of Kimi in Canada, and kinda messed up in the next race.

Felipe Massa has not made a single serious mistake since Silvestone. Heck, has he even made a mistake? Instead he rose to the McLaren challenge and has, with the single exception of Spa, left the "wonderboy" Hamilton in his wake.

The Felipe Massa of 2008 is a driver for us to admire, and for opponents to fear. He has the wonderfull flair of a sporting icon; that fantastic ability to turn the form book on its head. In this computerized day and age he can leave his own engineer to scratch his head and wonder where the speed came from.

And quite honestly, what do you expect from Formula 1 these days
?. I expect the usual: Felipe and Lewis locked in their own battle quarter of a lap ahead of their "peers". They are both the stars of this season, and right now they are the best at what they do.

Maybe the media don't want to be proven wrong. Perhaps they won't acknowledge that their new star gets beating by that kid with no potential?

I don't know, but I do know that Felipe is one of the very few drivers I admire and want to see succeed. He has that something that so many drivers lack, that little bit of extra.

Oh and with regards to the original question? Get rid of Nelson. He is useless. He has no will to be here and he is a spoiled child. I would call him a new Ralf Schumacher, but that would be unfair to Ralf.