Turn 1 from Felipe's car etc

I am grateful to Nicco for sending this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip4p-FcrBLc. This is on-board footage of the start at Fuji from Felipe's car and if you haven't seen it, you should. It provides a very clear picture of what happened at the start and, as Nicco mentions in his comment, it shows that Lewis made another mistake at the apex of Turn 3 which was never shown on the main TV footage because the director was covering DC's shunt and some shots of Kazuki.

I just hope that the lawyers at FOM will continue to allow us to see this because it is so important in helping us understand why the stewards reached the conclusion they did. It is precisely the sort of footage they should release themselves with their findings to help us all understand how they reach their conclusions.

Assuming you can see it, here are a few pointers.

1. Lewis does not make his move on Kimi until very late on the straight. He whips out almost at the point that his front wheels are on the white line at the end of the pit-exit lane.

2. Lewis is parallel to Kimi when he hits the brakes and Heikki is right behind Lewis, so Kimi is well and truly trapped.

3. When the cars reach the turn-in point, Lewis is still stopping Kimi from turning. No doubt about that.

4. Lewis goes straight on but then Heikki takes his place alongside Kimi, pushing the Iceman wide in a sequence which is the direct consequence of Lewis's initial passing attempt.

5. After Heikki has moved ahead of Kimi, Felipe then comes alongside his team-mate as Kimi is trying to re-gain the track and the two Ferraris almost (or perhaps do) touch before Kimi gets away.

6. Lewis is tracking Fernando and Robert along the straight towards Turn 3. He is in third place. As they approach the apex of Turn 3, Lewis is about three car-lengths behind Fernando. He does not make a move on Fernando but when he gets to the curbs at the apex his car gets pitched off, across the track and runs very wide over the run-off area. This is why Lewis is in seventh place, and behind Felipe, by the time they approach Turn 10 next time round. The shot of Lewis at Turn 3 is from the 'copter and it is hard to see what happened. It looks like he might have clouted the curb or maybe his flat-spotted tyres were the cause...

7. There is no doubt that Lewis was responsible for a sequence of events which primarily disadvantaged Kimi. Whether he should have been penalised for it, or whether this was just standard racing, is something we shall debate for weeks I guess. The bottom line with Lewis, however, is that the move on Kimi was not required championship-wise and he should never have done it (but that is easy to say sitting in a hotel room in Tokyo).

At dinner last night in town, quite a few of the British journos were there and there was inevitably much discussion about this. Two themes emerged. One, quite a few of them see Felipe winning now. Two, they are increasingly taking the view that Lewis went into Turn 10 and 11 on lap two with, at the very least, a "devil may care" thought in his mind. He knew he had to pit almost immediately because his front tyres were worn to the canvas where he had flat-spotted them at Turn 1, so he might have been thinking 'what the hell, let's take Felipe on. My race is almost run, maybe he'll do something stupid, especially if I play hard.' Felipe says Lewis pushed him into the gravel; Lewis says Felipe hit him on purpose. Felipe gets a penalty. I don't know. If Lewis was thinking the way the hacks suggest, then his strategy was at least partially successful.

Felipe at Interlagos. Some say that with 100,000 of his countrymen roaring in his ears, the ghost of Senna giving him a talking to and the pressure (if it comes to that) to close it out himself, Felipe might buckle on his home track. I can see that, but equally I am not so sure. Felipe loves Interlagos and drove beautifully there last year. I think he could do it, if it came to it. Fascinating prospect though isn't it?

Fernando says "I'll help Massa". Yes he did say this as far as I know while on the phone to a journalist from the AS newspaper in Spain. Playing minds games, mischievous, unsporting, unpleasant - take your pick. Ironically, having said that, it rather restricts Fernando's options on the track at Shanghai if he does come across Lewis. The stewards, for example, might be watching him rather more closely than might otherwise have been the case.

Lewis is still in Tokyo as far as I know (I hear he has just arrived in Shanghai) preparing for the biggest race of his career since the last "biggest race of his career" which, as you all know, was last year's Brazilian Grand Prix.   

Comments

[Tom]

Ed

Alonso has also been quoted as saying "I don't know what Hamilton did but its good he has been punished anyway".

Nice.

Do not underestimate how much Lewis wants this. He will get his cool head back on and do whatever it takes to make history this year. Some things are just meant to be.

Alonso?

[Anon]

I am SO angry we didn't see that on TV!!!!

It really does help the stewards case, but more importantly it shows a great spat between Fernando and Lewis. love how they tussle for the track position. Fernando won that one!

[Anon]

Pfff.

I think Lewis will win the title in China in amazing style. He has the mental capacity to do it.

If it comes to Brazil I don't see Felipe flinching. Senna does not impress him as much as Schumacher. He won't flinch.

Fernando- I don't think he'll do anything. He might let Felipe pass him as if he was lapped but apart from that I'd be surprised. Maybe we'll get a Prost/Senna moment in Turn 1. But I highly doubt it.

If what he said there was bad, wonder what Ron's comments of "we're racing Fernando" must be. Treasonous?

But who knows. Maybe last year's wounds still lie deep in Fernando. Seeing how Lewis drives when he is near Fernando (Bahrain, Japan '08)I guess he feels the jitters a bit too.
BTW, I have troubel believing Lewis killed his tires in TUrn 1. Everybody went wide, Lewis a bit more, but kill his tires? I don't think so. An if he had to pit straight away he would have done so on Lap 1, not Lap2 . I think McLaren are playing games with Felipe's mind (which is totally cool). I think it is possible Lewis either 1.) stil underestimated his braking distance and 2.) was pissed about TUrn1 or 3.) Got irked by Frnando beating him to the corner.

[Mr. Gómez]

Hi again Ed. I agree with you on the final conclusion of your article, in the sense of FA's words evidence something which -perhaps- may not help him.
But -having said that-, I would never see that words as being "unsporting", neither "unpleasant" in the circumstances they have been generated. Those adjectives on your article have really surprised me.

[Colin]

Thanks for posting this. I think the stewards see so much more than we do, as this gives much more insight into Lewis' behavior on the track...

[Raja Sen]

As always, we look to the unbiased Ed Gorman for factual analysis. Great stuff.

Thanks for a full breakdown of what really happened at Fuji; it's surprising that FOM doesn't make its position clear by pointing out facts like this. That ubiquitous Ferrari-bias tag weighs the entire sport down as much as it does Ferrari.

As for what the journos are saying, it's true that Felipe must be feeling odds-on favourite going into the final two races -- even though he wouldn't want to spend a night in Singapore again soon -- simply because Lewis is spectacularly cocking up.

In a way I feel Fuji was a vindication of Massa's right to the title because of the stunning way in which he put the hammer down, and showed a ruthless side which surprised many who considered him a soft touch.

Can he do it at home? Well, yes he just might -- and it'd be the stuff screenplays are made of!

[tiptoe]

Ed: why do you think that Fernando's comment means that he is going to do anything illegal?, could you interpret it maybe as that he is going to race as hard as he can to be in front of Lewis to make him loser points?
Do you seriously think that Fernando is going to jeopardize his race and Renault points in the constructor championship to stop Lewis?
Funny way of thinking you have, I say that you could stop looking for any other guilty parties but Lewis, he has only himself to blame.

[LAK]

Finally clear footage! Thank you Nicco and Ed for sharing this! Very interesting and disappointing conclusions! How I wish Lewis just tried to maintain his 3rd position behind Kubica and Alonso, at least he wouldn't have lost that much places and would have pitted from a higher position! I really hope he calms down in Shanghai.

I think Phil Prew should race with Lewis by directing him and guiding him through the race to make sure he sticks to his priorities.

As for the British journalists' theories, I find the second theory to be very intriguing. Lewis maybe more cunning than ever if it's true. When you come to think of it, if Massa didn't hit Lewis or gotten a penalty, he may have more points than Hamilton. Did Lewis really try to push his luck? Maybe, but did he want Massa to crash into him and ruin his race, I find that very hard to believe! I don't think he would put himself in such danger. I just think he was trying to keep his line. It was Massa who seemed to smash into him with full force causing Lewis to spin.

Even though Massa got a penalty, he was still better off than Lewis who ended up last. Which brings us to the question of whether Massa crashed into Lewis deliberately, I find that hard to believe also. Let's assume he did, it would be stupidly risky because he can't predict how bad the crash would be. He couldn't have known before hand that by bumping into him, Lewis would actually spin and end up last while he drives past him.

Therefore, I'd like to believe that no one did anything on purpose or try to instigate a problem.

[Anon]

Oh, and I think I concur with the penalty of the stewards. he did cause a huge pile-up. Massa had to run wide just to aoid Kimi and Heikki. If Lewis had crashed into Kimi and Heiki had crashed into Felipe who was crashing into Kimi and lewis, would not have been a pretty sight. (But a pretty darn good race result!)

I think Fernando said he was going to help Felipe because Kimi wouldn't do it. How generous ;-)

[Gabriel]

Finally! I knew Lewis must have made another mistake somewhere but we never got shown it! Why is this the case? I understand that during a live feed there is no time, but why doesn't ITV use different footage for its analysis, rather than Mark Blundell talking through what we've seen already and usually stating the obvious? I can only presume it's not available to them.

[Alex]

Thanks for the link, it clearly shows that several cars outbraked themselves at T1 and that Heikki was blocking Kimi for most of it, not Lewis. None of this results in a penalty, unless you are Lewis Hamilton driving a McLaren.

Can anybody please tell me of a similar incident that resulted in a penalty ? Kimi got it wrong in Monaco with his braking and took out Sutil, yet got no penalty, despite, arguably having the possibility of avoiding him.

As for Lewis v Felipe, he got past, Felipe tried to pass on the grass knowing he was going to end up ramming and spinning Hamilton. None of this results in a penalty, unless you are Lewis Hamilton driving a McLaren.

Without the FIA Stewards constant chipping away at Lewis, he would be WDC already. Alonso's snide, unpleasant threats only go to show how what a joke this is. http://planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3261_4327413,00.html

[Michael Cowley]

Ed, you correctly summarise the action that occured going into turn 1 in your numbered points.

I think it is neccessary to separate the question of whether Lewis' actions were correct for his championship challenge from that of whether what he did on track was penalty-worthy.

The account of the action above can easily be summarised: "Hamilton put his car in the space next to Raikkonen's car on the track, at the point that Raikkonen needed that space to begin turning into the corner."

that is clearly not against the rules, and is infact a standard technique used to make passes.

Lewis did nothing different from the action at hundreds of corners in hundreds of races in the history of motorsport. The stewards gave him a penalty for being "in the way of a Ferrari."

[Michael Cowley]

one more point Ed,

if you analyse each of your points individually you will see that nothing against the rules was done by Hamilton. He made no move towards kimi to push him off, we was metres in front of him when kimi left the track. There is clearly no case for a penalty.

it has gotten to the point where people are penalised for racing now. clearly that's not the way to go about things.

regarding the Lewis/Massa incident, you mention that Lewis may have been half-hoping fora crash. I don't think he went into the corner hard at all, he just took a normal line around it, because felipe had gone off line and off track.

[IDR]

Big thanks to Nicco, the video is still working (Maybe the FOM people tracking this blog are sleeping!) and is self-explanatory of what happened in lap 1.

In any case, Felipe and Lewis didn't show us the behaviour of WDC title contenders. Both drivers were not able to keep their minds under control during the race.

Anyway, I still think that this year, Lewis will be champion… unless Lewis doesn’t want to!

On the Fernando issue, he said in several occasions he prefers Massa to win this WDC basically because he prefers to keep the youngest driver in winning a WDC record. He was asked after the victory of Sebastian Vettel when he lost the record of the youngest driver in winning a GP, he was asked again during a meeting with young students in Spain.

Now, as journalists are looking for more “food for polemic” they asked again if he could help Felipe to win, would he do it. He said yes, If I can I’ll do it.

What he not said was "I’m going to help Massa at any cost.(or at my own cost)"

In fact, the question was plain stupid, how could Fernando help Massa not harming his own position in a race? If you ask this you shouldn’t ask, “If you could” you should ask “Will you?”

Nobody asked him, “If you could help Robert to win the championship, should you do it?” The answer would have been the same: Yes, I’ll do it.

Stupid or malicious questions only deserve ironic or malicious answers. And yes it was very unpleasant, but no more than the question.

I have already “taken my pick” basically because:

Fernando doesn’t need to play mind games. He is not a title contender, he knows it perfectly from the beginning of this season, and as he said on Fuji: “I’m in a cloud, this is something not expected, the whole team deserve it and now the important thing is to be happy” And he is quite happy, you only have to watch the pictures.

I cannot choose Mischievous (I think is the word you want to use) basically because I didn’t know what the hell did it means before discovering was not properly spelled. (Sorry Ed, I’m not criticising you, but for a bad English speaker as me, it’s difficult to find a translation if the word is not correctly spelled. I tried in at least 4 different programmes!)

Unsporting, I don’t know why it can be considered as unsporting. Unsporting would be to ACT during a competition on an unfairly way, not answering mischievous (I love that word!!!) questions.

So, unpleasant or not diplomatic at all, are my final choice.

[Alex]

Renault are (breaking the rules) Edit Moderator

There, someone has said it.... How come a car so slow it was deemed "an accident" when Lewis drove into the back of Alonso earlier in the season managed to catch Kimi up at 1sec per lap, with the "Crap driver" in it ? Piquet set the 4th fastest lap, Alonso, 3rd fastest, why is he not crowing about bringing "6 tenths of a second" to Renault in 2008 I wonder ? Max turned a blind eye to Flavio's cheating at Benneton and activeley helped them escape FIA sanction, is he doing the same now as "F1 needs Alonso and the Spanish"

Read this, http://www.grandprix.com/race/r801racereport.html

It also highlights how Massa was allowed to get away with entering a prohibited zone whilst overtaking Webber, again with no question.

[F1-Insider]

Ed,
Please read this: Last year Lewis Hamilton was investigated by the stewards in china for his alleged bad driving whilst behind the safety car only for them to find no fault.
The point here is that the stewards of the race after the race an alleged offence occurred were allowed by the FIA to investigate it. On this basis would you please ask those that at the FIA why Massa is not under investigation for his pass on Webber where he clearly went off track with all 4 wheels (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y9DKCLLHjs)over the pit lane line.
I am surprised I have not seen this mentioned elsewhere and you, the press should have latched on to this straight away.
Please follow this up.

[alberto]

Alonso? Two-times world champion.

fancy how AS or MARCA are never taken seriously regarding their information by many, and now they have controversial words by Fernando, As or Marca, are unquestionnable.

One shouldn't be surprised if he prefers Massa to win over Hamilton. But I don't think he would do anything illegal or against his own interests in a race.

[BILL]

its getting a little dull all in all. The stwards are takeing the finest tradition of the UK nanny state control and excercising too much influence on races. its what happens when lawyers take over a sport and appeals end up in court. can u imagine this in any other sport? a penalty awarded and scored fm gets the full high court treatment on appeal and is reversed..joke!! the stwards should shut up, be lighter in touch and only get involved at a last resort and the teams should be allowed to get on and race. All the incidents in Japan could have been described as racing incidents, only the interferance of the stewards elevated them to over blown controversy. The drivers will self govern when they realize that stupidities such as T-boning another could, and in many case will, end their own race and damage their teams points potential. Decisions made by drivers pumped full of adreneline in the heat of battle should never be questioned by those sitting round a desk studying the minutea of the rule book whose only exposure to danger is a mild caffiene rush.

[Andres]

I agree, the stewards are doing odd things. Maybe they feel guilty for the last year...

Go Kubica!! If he´s fighting for the championship with only 20 points left with a BMW, he deserves the championship! Massa vs Hamilton, well, it´s a matter of who´s less clumsy with one top car

[James B]

Ed,

1) I agree lewis was taking Massa on.

2) Massa then ran excessively wide in T10 leaving the door wide open for lewis to go underneath. This was a very similar situation to Spa where Raikonnen then forced Lewis to either brake or cut the chicane. Lewis doesn't do this though which I think he should have he actually gives Massa lots of room going into T11. If you look at the camera from the other side of T11 you will see Hamilton is taking a normal line. Massa crazily thinks he can make the corner and ends up hitting the rear of Hamilton. This wasn't deliberate from Massa just stupid. As for Hamilton I think he was being cautious here because he didn't want to be seen driving his rival off the road which Kimi did to him. I don't agree that Lewis was trying to suck him in.

3) All this talk of Hamilton and pressure (which I do agree with) think about Massa though. He has made just as many mistakes particulary Q3 where if you add together his Sector 2 and 3 from his outlap and his S1 on his qual lap he would have been on pole.

[JR]

I think Fernando's comments about helping Massa if possible are wrong. It seems that the wounds from Monaco and Hungary 07 plus the incredible "we were basically racing Fernado" are still open. I can uderstand it but this is the kind of thinking that you should keep just for yourself.
Take note A. Parker, we Alonso fans are able to critizise him whenever we think he's wrong, maybe you can try do do the same from time to time.

[A Parker]

Alex, well said. If you are Lewis driving a McLaren, you are not allowed to win the WDC at all costs on ze orders of von Spanky.

[Javier (not vivaEspaña though)]

Tom, ******(Thanks Javier/Moderator) is an insult. I did not know it was allowed. (the first post of this thread)

Regarding the quote, he did not say that, he said that if the stewards gave him a penalty, that means Lewis had done something.

Regarding the "I´ll help Massa" he told a sky (italian) reporter after he was led to this point. The reporter told him how fans wanted him at Ferrari, and then asks who he prefers to win.

[Rubeniken]

Sorry Ed, but the question was not exactly like that.
The journalist made reference about the brazilian supporters have no faith in Kimi's colaboration with Massa. So the question was, if Alonso would help Massa, his answer was "if i have to choose, obviously i would help Massa to win the championship".
In the Japanesse GP podium, Kubica and Alonso, were talkung in Italian, and Kubica laughing told to Fernando " Now that you have a fast car, bring some help to win the championship" and Fernando replies " i would like, but now your car is not fast enough"

[Paul]

"Felipe tried to pass on the grass knowing he was going to end up ramming and spinning Hamilton. None of this results in a penalty, unless you are Lewis Hamilton driving a McLaren." That, quite obviously Alex, is bullsh*t of the first order!

[John O'Donnell]

Ed, in your Times account you mentioned something like McLaren had got the wrong launch settings on LH's car causing a slow start and the ensuing chaos. Could you tell us more?

Reviewing the footage of Massa overtaking Webber in the pit exit lane it seems quite clear he should have been blackflagged.

Finally, the penalty for Bourdais after Massa rammed him is downright scandalous.

Ed writes
Hi John: This is what Lewis told me in the McLaren hospitality area just before he left the track:
"I got a bad start. For some reason, we had not the best setting on the launch map. Fortunately I got back in the tow and I had an opportunity to get back in the lead. And so I did."

[Rubeniken]

Oh TOM. Don't manipulate. This season, when journalist have asked him for every punished facts, he every time has replied that; "when they penalize, they have sawn something that must be punished " above all if he doesn't know what happenned in the race.
Don't you think?

[Alonso's miracles]

Hi Ed,

Breaking my own forum-participation rules I will do a little bit long post. But for the sake of clarity I will summarize now what I say below.
1. a bit of personal history and experience
2. a bit of Spanish History that might help to understand Fernando's comments
3. a conclussion

1. I, as many Spaniards of my generation, lived in UK for one year, studying english. We needed to know the languaje, the beautyful english languaje. Apart from the learning, I made great british friends. Believe me if I tell you I like, I love, your country. Your smartness and "savoir faire". In summary, the "british way", the rainy weather, the green landscape, the tiny little villages and London as the fantastic capital it is.

2. When English Pirates, or English Navy Ships attacked Spanish "Galeons" coming from America full of gold, several times the Spanish sailors preferred to sink their own ships, before they get in the hands of the english. This was seen as "non-sense" by the britons, but it happened anyway despite the english views of it. This was called "Spanish Pride" and it tells a lot about the way we behave and the way we react to offenses.

3- Lewis (and Ron) have an enemy for their life time. his name is Fernando Alonso. And despite wahtever he might say, the bitterness of the 2007 season will come back every time. He will never give up.

So sorry, it is the way we are. Wew can't help it

[Kormak]

Dear Ed,

1.- Find the words that Alonso said.
2.- Buy a translator.

Ask any spanish about AS and if they believe what they write.....

[daniela]

I see how many people here do not like Lewis.
it's down to the fact he's not white.

You dudes hate him and pick on little stuff just to make yourself happy and justify your hate. Go on.

Lewis will win and make Formula One pround and all of us accept the racists who will curse themselves and hope next season brings him bad luck.

Go Lewis we are behind you

[ELCROWLEY]

Ham didn't warm his tyres up correctly on warming lap. I remember to see all drivers approaching to start line doing typical movements (fast right-left movements and fast aceleration) excepting Ham!! ham just go straight to his place on the grid. No warming movements on straight lane.
When I saw it I thought "Uhmmmm, let's see your starting..." et voilá

[Bhavesh]

Oh come of it ed, that is logic contortion of the first order to say that Hakki forcing Kimi off the road is a consequence of Lewis's overtaking move.

Hekki did not HAVE to brake so late, he did not HAVE to run wide due to Lewis's move. Unless of course his car is attached to LH's by a tether!!!!

If anything Hekki should have been penalised for forcing Kimi off the road.

Going by your logic Lewis should have been penalised for Coultard being hit by Nakajima as that was a direct consequence of Lewis overtaking move at the start.

The most scandalous thing about the whole race was Massa entering the hatched red and white area getting away scot free then causing a crash with Bourdais and again recieving no penalty.

The RED car rule, rules. Bloody lawyers is all i can say. Can someone please take a bus load of prostitutes to Mosley and bribe him to retire!!!

[Prof Plum]

Rats!! Formula One Management broke this link when I'd only seen about a third of it!

I'm puzzled, though, why the onboard footage from Massa's car is evidence of Lewis acting in any way that deserved a penalty at turn 1. The only frames where Lewis's car is shown make his moves look reasonable and progressive.

[Jordi]

Damm, the video is not available anymore!!

Once again people have been manipulating Alonsos words. Alonso said that if he could, he would help Masa. This is very different to say “I’ll help Massa”. Unpleasant? No for Masa and Ferrari fans it isn't, neither it is for Alonsos fans, most of them don't have Hamilton in their xmas presents list.

Regarding turn one (I haven't seen the onboard footage) I still have my doubts, it is true that LH doesn't seem to hit anyone, it is true that situations like that happen all the time at turn one, so it seems a harsh penalty to me. But let’s be clear, LH lost the race all by himself, by flat-spotting his tyres he had to make an extra pit stop, taking risk when he didn't need too, found himself on the back of the track.

Lots of talk about FIA, stewards etc, but not much about what made LH lose his head? He has last years experience, I don't understand the guy, if he really wants to win the WDC he cannot risk it all at turn one, its crazy. Even Niki Lauda doesn't seem to be very impress anymore with LH.

Anyway, interesting races coming up.

[Javier (not vivaEspaña though)]

Thank you for the fast removal.

Regarding the I´ll help Massa do not expect anything hard from Alonso.

First of all he is not going to risk his own race just to help Massa.
Risking a penalty (that will certainly be hard if he does something dirty) or a mechanical failure? No way.

But defending his position at all costs? well, if he is infront of Hamilton, why should he let Lewis go?

[JTR]

The youtube vid has been pulled by FOM, anywhere else?

[PTM]

I didnt think I could think less of Alonso, he is undoubtely a great champion, but I was wrong. A spanish role model?? Or just plain petty?

[RichyS]

Well, I don't see anything in this video that we haven't seen in countless other first corner incidents.

The only difference is that this happened at the front, rather than the mid-field.

But the 'rules' (I say rules, what I really mean is 'rules as they are interpreted on the day by the stewards') should apply equally whether you start 1st of 15th.

We can all agree that Lewis was stupid in the first (and 3rd) corners. But no more 'stupid' than Heikki. And certainly less stupid than whoever it was that punted DC out of the race.

If we're going to start dishing out punishments for overcooking it at the start, the pitlane's going to get very very busy on lap 2 (or lap 15, if we're in Singapore).

This is racing. If you don't actually hit anyone, it's okay. The FIA are in serious danger of over-sanitising the 'sport'.

[Michael Grinks]

Well, they took the video down. Reading the comments of those who did see it clears up a few things but it doesn't change anything. The newly discovered Turn 3 error seems to tell the tale: Lewis was not mentally where he needed to be and that was the problem. Even if the erroneous launch map settings had thrown him off, such risky moves, however legitimate they might be in some racing situations, were not called for on lap 1 of such a crucial race. We love Lewis because he drives with his heart. But at this level of racing, you need the head to be fully functioning also.

As to Massa's chances, I would say he has a good chance if Lewis continues to beat himself like this. The harder work here is Hamilton's.

[Un pajarito]

Oh Alexito, Alexito...
You are beguining to sound just as bitter as Parker.
Read a good book mate, something like El Quijote.
Ho, Ho.

[Pierre]

As a Ham fan my thoughts are:

1)LH should not have been given a penalty for his driving at Turn1. It was the start of the race, more often than not incidents happen. This should have been filed under 'Racing Incidents - no further action'. Anyone who vaguely follows the sport must surely agree.

2) Under normal circumstances I would have also classified Massa's bump into Ham also as an unfortunate racing incident, but since Ham has been punished for similar things, it is right for FM to be punished this time too.

3) I don't think FM should have been punished for crossing the line when overtaking Webber. He was squeezed out and had nowhere to go.

4) I think it was totally ridiculous Bourdais got a penalty. Massa clipped him, Bourdais had nowhere to go! Should have gone under 'Racing Incident - no further action'.

F1 is in danger of being foreced into a procession (and not just at Monaco and Valencia). The stewards must remember this is racing and things happen. They should be asking was there intent? If not, forget about it. We need to encourage racing, not following.

I have to say though, if Ham continues to drive like he did in the opening laps of Fuji, then he doesn't deserve the 08 title. And I'm saying this as a Ham fan. At this late stage he needs to be strategic instead of going for the win at all costs.

[Marco]

Alonso also remarked that Hamilton has 84 points after 15? races while he had more or less the same after 9? in 2006.

Is so, it shows clearly the level of this championship.

I don´t understand why Alonso says that about Massa, although it´s clear he wills the worst to the team that prevent him to win his third championship.

[Marco]

Alonso also remarked that Hamilton has 84 points after 15? races while he had more or less the same after 9? in 2006.

Is so, it shows clearly the level of this championship.

I don´t understand why Alonso says that about Massa, although it´s clear he wills the worst to the team that prevent him to win his third championship.

[John O'Donnell]

Thanks Ed, OK, so they haven't quite mastered the launch map settings but can the hi-tech wizards at McLaren explain Heikki's engine failure, the only one of the season? Was that down to driver abuse and how can they be sure another failure won't stop them winning the championship?

[Ash Bavalia]

Ed, this is preposterous reporting! If we were to micro analyse every first corner incident for every race in history we would find transgressions by drivers that would make LH seem like a saint! The fact is that some of the worst first corner incidents even in recent history involving injury, carnage and restarts have not attracted even a raised eyebrow from the stewards! Why have you as a journalist become so sucked into the illogicality of justifying ridiculous decisions by the stewards, FIA et. al. when it is so clear to most normal reasoned and logical people that something is clearly not right with their impartiality!

Anyway, even discounting the first corner incident, there have been just far too many incidents throughout this and other seasons for you to explain things away through analysis.

It is clear that within an industry where there is too much money, power and glory that impartiality has become the victim in order for the self preservation of those who lead the sport at the very top. It is sad that the influence of politics at the top of the sport is beginning to affect the outcome of results on the track that are not based on merit alone! A recent report by your organization suggested that even Max Moseley believes that there is a conspiracy against him from certain quarters of the sport, probably emanating from Woking I think he would suspect! It pains me to say it but when a figure such as Moseley states that he will get to the bottom of who these conspirators are, surely there can be no confidence that the sport will be run impartially!

Ed, fun that this sort of dissection is, I really do believe that the interest of the reader would be better served if you were to step back a bit in order to provide a more global perspective of what is afflicting this great sport rather than attempting to justify an isolated incident as if it was just that i.e. isolated and not part of something perhaps more sinister!

[brabazon]

I've thought for a long time that the TV highlights package could be much better than it currently is. If there was a definitive highlights package which genuinely tells the story of the race using all the footage available in an analytical way we'd all benefit. As it is you're often left in the dark a bit after a race, and have to wait until the following Thursday to read the full report in Autosport to find out what happened...!

F1 has always been a terribly exciting sport, but the TV coverage sometimes manages to make it look like a dreary Sunday drive around in circles.

Let's hope the Beeb does a better job next year. I won't miss those ad breaks...!

[PTM]

Alonso's miracles - wow an example to us all, I'm sure

[David - BR]

Wow! At least we finally get to see something. The main TV coverage at Fuji was really bad, virtually no cockpit shots, completely losing the start of the race by focusing on Coulthard, etc. Totally inept.

I still think Hamilton's move was rash/stupid but no more than a normal incident at the start of the race. From this angle (Massa's view) Raikkonen is right that he got bumped by both McLaren's, but he nearly bumped Massa coming back on track himself. This stuff always happens. Massa ends up off because he decides to go way outside of his own accord. Massa's later take-out of Lewis may or may not have been deliberate, but the fact is that all such incidents have been penalized this season. If I was cynical (which in relation to FIA, I am), I'd say the stewards dreamt up Lewis's penalty as giving Massa's was inevitable.

As for Lewis at corner 3 (?), I agree that he probably lost his cool (again) tussling with Alonso.

He probably did wreck his tyres, at least enought to lose competitive race speed, and I do think taking on Massa was a case of 'what the hell.' But his move was brilliant, the best overtaking of the day. The irony being though that it was much better Massa then clipped him and got the penalty.

[A Parker]

Alex, it is really sad to say but the cheating, poor sportsmanship, the Ferrari International Assistance, nasty drivers ganging up on poor Lewis; all this is making F1 into a complete absurdity. It will only claw back some credence if Lewis wins the WDC.

[Sofie]

Hi, here's another possible conspiracy, as people seem in the mood. Raikonnen comes out publicly saying he's not going to help Massa (which was very believeable). But just before the start of the race, don't forget that he made that look over at Lewis as if to say, "I'm gonna get you," which made Lewis a bit mad. Being the hot-headed person he is (bless him), Lewis couldn't help reacting and doing something very stupid and unnecessary. Raikkonen was ready for this and to go off the track, which we all know happens to be his racing speciality anyway. So, Raikkonen provoked the incident, but no one would think it was planned and all the focus is again on Lewis. What do you think?

[IDR]

@PIERRE

Totally agree.

(An Alonso Fan)

[Tato Dulanci, Spain]

Not only is Alonso who thinks so, but the majority of F1 fans all over the world and most F1 drivers decidedly want Hamilton NOT to win the championship.
Why?
He is both unsporting and dangerous.
People want Hamilton out of the Formula One, as he is the cause of problems, rows, troubles, hassles, complications, brawls and messes in almost all races.
Give us a break !!

[Fernan]

Prfff

"Playing minds games, mischievous, unsporting, unpleasant - take your pick" -- Yeah, Alonso saying that he'll help Massa is much worse than hearing Hamilton saying he's the best in the world without having accomplished anything yet.

[Agustin]

Definetely, this year Alonso is not running Massa.

[Becken]

About Fernando´s International Assistance, he has answered a question that came from a Brazilian journalist:

“…Bueno, sin duda, se puedo ayudar, ayudaré a Massa…”

TRANSLATE TO ENGLISH:

“…Well, no doubt, if I can help, I will help Massa…”

The LINK:
http://f1around.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/alonso-sim-se-posso-ajudar-ajudarei-a-massa/

[Simon Brock]

To Pierre:-

Nice to see you posting again, and I agree with your comments, except for the one about Massa's overtake of Webber. Have a look here http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y9DKCLLHjs
and I think you'll see that he could easily have passed to the left side quite safely, but instead elected to go down the right side, in the process completely crossing the solid white line and then the pit lane exit area which could have been curtains for somebody exiting right then. I have no doubt that had LH done the exact same manouvre, he would probably have been disqualified!!! I've posted on this (along with many others) in the other blog spots on this website, and the consensus view is that he got away with it "big time". "Red car rules" seemingly applied by the three muppets in the stewards box.

[Simon Brock]

Further to my last message regarding Massa's overtake of Webber into the pit lane exit area, I should mention that the commentators here in Hong Kong immediately picked up on it, and commented at the time that the move was totally illegal, saying that it'd be interesting to see if the stewards picked up on it and penalised Massa, adding that he could be about to have a very bad day with his Bourdais scrap already pegged for adjudication after the race. (They, along with almost everyone else, thought Massa was in the wrong on that one too.)
The commentators were Steve Slater and Karun Chandhok who is a GP2 racing driver, and he should know!

[Jaime]

If Lewis finally wins, he'll be the worst world Champion ever...

It's incredible seeing him driving always... He's capable of doing the best and the worst at any time.

[Furio]

http://f1.com/news/headlines/2008/10/8530.html

For the reference of all the bloggers here.

[Santiago]

Again the brits having nightmares with Alonso, even if he is not a championship contender, but I tell you all, as the best thing it happened to Federer was Nadal and viceversa (otherwise they wouldnt improve that much), the best thing it happened to Alonso was Hamilton, however, I´m not sure if viceversa.

One thing is sure, in the post Schumaker era, the best thing has happened to F1 and to the media is the Alonso-Hamilton rivalry. They both will improve their driving standars by motivation.

[Rubeniken]

Well, BECKEN, you "forgot" to write the answer. lol. It was " Fernando suporters in Brazil don't believe that Raikönnen can help Massa. And now they are (supporters) very happy because Fernando has a fast car, and Fernando dislikes Hamilton. This is good for Felipe. What do you say to the Brazilian supporters? Well, if I can, i will help Massa.
I think that this is the REAL AND COMPLETE CONVERSATION, THE TRUTH.
http://f1around.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/alonso-sim-se-posso-ajudar-ajudarei-a-massa/

[Javier]

China 2007
“We weren’t racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.”
Ron Dennis.
Japan 2008. In turn 1, HAM was racing Kimi. Overpassed by KUB and ALO.
In turn 3, HAM was racing Fernando. Overpassed by KOV, TRU, PIQ and MAS.
CONCLUSION
HAM turns fool even when he is passed by the Safety Car.

When will he learn?

Javier. Cartagena.

[FAL]

To Daniela

It's not a race thing, it's a dislike of smugness and arrogance. Ok, LH is a good driver but he could afford some respect to other driver's on the circuit. He's so full of thanks for his team after a good result, yet quick to blame them when he doesn't stop for a red light (they didn't remind him it meant stop in Montreal!). He's false, his colour has nothing to do with it.

[Name]

www.F1.com now has the video of all the different incidents, from more different camera angles.

In there you can see it looks like Hamilton weaves twice in front of Raikkonen, they are then already far from the ideal racing line which is what Raikkonen was on originally. Raikkonen has to totally slow down and move out of the way, to avoid an accident. But there is also an onboard part with Hamilton that is in particularly very interesting, on the onboard of Hamilton you can see that he basically goes out straight at full throttle, and only starts to brake when he is near inches from Raikkonen (so he actually going straight into/for Raikkonen). It is quite clear that he would never have been able to make that corner, he braked far to late. So now the question is, why did he brake so late, what where his intentions with that move? It seems like he was trying to bully (push) Raikkonen out of the way. He knew exactly where Raikkonen was, but he still just went straight out for it. It would have caused an accident if Raikkonen didn't move out of the way, so it seems like he was just throwing himself in there and hoping that Raikkonen would take evasive action and move out of his way.

Not so much different form Massa's move actually, so for me the penalty is fair.

[Nicco]

Hello!

Happy you enjoyed the video! And many thanks to Ed for reporting it! If you like there's another one at normal speed much more valuable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STKvGuFjWGg

In any case, as Ferrari's fan (I'm italian), in my very personal opinion Lewis penalty was absolutely ridiculous and clearly shows how FIA is trying to use all its power (and even more) to control championship destiny. "The show must go on..as more as we can!" is Mr.Ecclestone favourite song. What's wrong with Lewis move? Despite regulation 16.1 "Incident means any action by any driver which..forced a driver off the track;" i can't really see anything made by purpouse by the Mclaren driver..He was simply driving on the limit and is exactly what made the Formula 1 so popular..who can forget Villeneuve fighting with Arnoux in late '79?..those were real racers and Hamilton is one of them. The real unfair move at the start, as Ed said, was made by Kovaleinen toward is compatriot driver Raikkonen. Let's say that Hamilton was punished instead of his team mate (that is obviously more convenient for the show!). At the same time I consider Massa's penalty lawful since Lewis was ahead and Felipe clearly penalized him.

As Ferrari's fan I'm simply jealous of Mclaren's driver...He's frankly a talent. I dont understand why the Maranello's team is spending so much trying to do the best car for then giving it to people like Raikkonen or Massa...

In conclusion...don't worry Britons!..You have a real prodigy!...even Schumacher was continuously penalized with his Benetton to let the championship alive...He will win many titles in his long career and probably even this year! I hope to see Alonso on a Ferrari as soon as possible in order to see unforgettable epic battles!

Ciaooooo! :-)

[LAK]

Thanx Ed for the Hamilton quote, it clearly explains why he suddenly had the urge to fight back and dove into the right hand side of Kimi pushing Kovalainen away.

[Inaki]

Don´t agree with the comments about the 1st turn, LH could have caused a complete disaster during the start, involving many of the cars ahead. One thing is defending your position on the track and another is breaking far too late and completely loss control of your car and provoke an accident. This was a childish move of an unexperienced driver. He deserved the penalty.
He again failed in the 3rd turn.

Massa wasn´t brilliant either in Japan and the tackle with LH deserved a penalty. Quite the contrary his overtaking to Webber was pure F1 racing, his initial overtaking manouvre was right but he had to take a huge risk whilst squeezed by Webber who left the track and should have been penalised for obstructive and dangerous driving not Massa.

By the way as a spanish fan of Alonso I expect him to win as many races as possible, but also him to try to avoid LH to obtain championship (Lewis would do the same to him). If you need a reason, it´s neither his race, nor his nationality but his arrogancy and lack of fair play, have a good look of his conduct and morale in last year F1, amazing actor ....with final divine justice. Hope this year he fails again.
No mercy for LH.

[Talese Ame]

Most of you guys are not racers. Blocking someones turn in is just about ok, as long as it is not dangerous.

All I really need to say is that Alonso, despite being a great driver, really must swallow hard to hate Hamilton that much.

[Riz]

For what it's worth, the Japanese broadcast was one of the only two broadcasts that wasn't controlled by FOM (the other being Monaco).

That's probably why the Youtube video hasn't yet been taken down.

This fact was mentioned during the US broadcast on Speed TV.

[Canadaian]

Ed:
I think you really have to give your head a shake. You are trying to show objectivity but you are failing.
Please write as a true journalist. I have no favorites but your comments "Lewis is still stopping Kimi from turning. No doubt about that." "Heikki is right behind Lewis, so Kimi is well and truly trapped."( So what, tough luck),"There is no doubt that Lewis was responsible for a sequence of events which primarily disadvantaged Kimi."
No comment about Brazil last year when Kimi virtually brqke tested Lewis and he "was trapped"
Please, you a have a responsibility, live up to it.

[sam]

Michael Cowley said that "Hamilton put his car in the space next to Raikkonen's car on the track, at the point that Raikkonen needed that space to begin turning into the corner. That is clearly not against the rules, and is infact a standard technique used to make passes.."

I agree. But to be fair, I must tell that the rules have nothing to
say when the cars involved, ended IN the track, nor OUT of the
track, the place where LH lead his car and many of his followers, so maybe the Britton tried to bend the rules a little too far.

[O Rygh, Norway]

@talese ame: obviously you are neither driver nor have idea of F1

[Peter Hurst]

Louis Hamilton is making some very basic mitakes at the moment and unless he calms down and puts the past behind him he won't make it.I've watched him for the past four years and I know he has the ability to be World Champion but he's got to start using his head.

[Furio]

I will make no more comments about the Stewards' decisions. The footage is there and shows very clearly the sequence of events that have been taken into account by the Stewards.

Am I the only one to see from his onboard camera that Hamilton was in 2nd gear while starting from the grid?

[Furio]

Lewis was definitely not in 1st gear at the start. An higher resolution image from his onboard camera could help us understand if he was in 2nd gear, but after many reviews of the FIA footage I am starting to believe he might have been in 3rd or even an higher gear ...

[Igor]

First of all, this was a great post, Ed. I sincerely appreciate the unbiased analysis and the pure facts perfectly distinguished from opinions.

Regarding punishments, I was not surprised when Massa got his drive through, but I did not expect to see the same on Lewis. Anyway, I do not think he really lost anything because of it, though it is not the question argumented in Ed's post. Having said that, I must emphasise that late Lewis' overtaking on Alonso was out of place.

On the other hand, I read the full interview and FA's answer to the question of whether he would help Felipe. Fernando's rivalry on Lewis is obvious, and so is Lewis' rivalry on Fernando. However, should some evil be paid on the question, it is journalist's fault. The true sense of the sentence given in the interview should be interpreted as follows: he will fight to score as many points as possible ahead of Hamilton to help Massa. I cannot believe he will let Massa overtake him or will push Lewis out of the track on that purpose.

AS is a sport magazine. It covers a wide set of sports. The main difference with a newspaper is they must sell news even when there are hardly news to tell. It is the cause of the questions its journalists ask to sportmen, and it sometimes yields controversy because they need it.

[sars]

ED
Just as matter of interest, I keep hearing that LH flat spotted his tyres so badly that he had to pit on lap 2 after the tussle with FM. If this is true how was he able to get into position to attack and pass FM. If his tyres were that flat spotted his breaking points would have been severely compromised making him much slower than FM. Isn't it more likely that a tactical decision was made to pit Lewis giving him 25 seconds of free air to race in. Unfortunately VMM didn't anticipate the Stewards continued action against racing.

[Antonio Xixon but in UK]

Thanks Ed for such a concise and crystal clear secuence of events. Still would like to know (or see, better) what happened between Massa and Hamilton before the chicane affair.

Yes, I agree with previous post about Marca and As. Before they had no credibility, now they speak the ultimate truth. Honestly knowing Fernando, eventhough he is thinking that, I'm pretty sure that he didn't say that at all. His words have been twisted to the convenience of the British press, but well, more fuel to feed the fire, that's exciting as well!. What a season finish!

[IBAN]

Dear Ed, have a ever told you yr picture reminds me of that famous Irish radio/TV presenter, whats-his-name??? That'w why I read yr blog.

Pity, that either you and many others have no sense of humour whatsoever, or completely lack understanding of anywhereelse’s (and an open mind…). I was in a hurry on Monday and didn’t come round to comment your … sort of ‘regretting’ Alonso’s comment

Of course Fernando said yes, to agreeing with judges, and did it very, very fast on purpose, with a naughty smile, making it clear he had no idea at all. He’s been saying for weeks he’d prefer to keep his ‘youngest WC’ for some time, and on Sunday he was in an extremely merry mood, and joyfully joked and agreed with anything helping to keep his record. Joke. End of it.

He’s no friends with Lewis, and never will, he has said many times LH had lied too much during the year, but if you ask the guy –do you ever talk to him personally, or just criticize him as a habit?- when he’s seen the race, have no doubts he’ll give a blunt, bare, fair, and honest opinion, regardless of anyone, whoever, liking it or hating it. Not a diplomatic sort of person, unlike the two faced character you so much applaud, but a real professional.

[Alex Roache]

Since Bernie's henchmen have taken that video off YouTube, here's some more excellent footage of each of the controversial incidents at Fuji: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/10/8530.html

The most significant bit for me is the camera positioned inside turn one... that angle does Hamilton no favours! If he'd been in fourth or fifth position he would have side-swiped a handful of cars. The penalty was deserved.

[zenmeister]

That video clip from Felipe's car has been removed from YouTube now, which is predictable, but also a great shame as it was very informative.

The official version is here: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/10/8530.html but it's nothing like as good. Why not?

[YBWBYATM]

The video has already been removed from youtube. Here is a high quality copy of it :

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ED0Z1P2Z

And here you can watch it directly in your browser :

www.zippyvideos.com/4566752517814486/fuji_2008_start/

[Richard]

FURIO - "I am starting to believe he might have been in 3rd or even an higher gear"

If that was the case, he's have been racing the medical car into the first corner, not a Ferrari!

[Furio]

Richard,
http://f1.com/news/headlines/2008/10/8530.html
have you seen the footage? The engine revs at the start are very low. After a while Lewis is shifting and the figure "1" is clear in the display in Lewis steering wheel (wheel? is it a wheel?).
Nevermind, I think i don't command the english language enough to make my point clear.
Forget about it!

[glen luchford]

Dear Ed
This video has put me out of my misery. Thankyou for answering this question. As this season has unfolded i can't help but think the fall the of the British Empire is in some way to blame for Hamilton's mistakes. Since the loss of India, WW11 and nuclear war, battle now takes place in the sports arena,and the masses desire for victory has an unmistakeable obsessional quality to i, that is unnerving and very unhealthy. And the weight on our sportspersons is simply overwhelming. America will no doubt experience this unconscious phenomena in the next twenty years. If i was Lewis id change nationality to swiss. Poor lad.

[glen luchford]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/10/8530.html

Dear Ed
After watching this footage two things become very clear. Hamilton is at fault in turn one. BUT its also very clear that Massa drives in to the side of Hamilton in a petulant manner. Id never seen that before now.

[Pau]

Let's look at the facts.

Lewis laps Fernando in Monaco 2008 after a great Lewis drive and Fernando's mistakes. Did anyone see anything wrong? No, it was all normal and clean, Fernando let him through after being shown the blue flag.

Lewis unlaps from Fernando in a very unsafe way in Japan. He locked his tyres and almost crashes behind Fernando.

As usual the British double standard (A Parker, Gary M, F1 Insider, Richard) will go all crazy about Fernando's "sportsmanship". Well, I have more reasons to doubt Lewis "sporstmanship" (passing Webber and Glock in Monza, using unfair advantge in Spa, crashing against Kimi under a red light in Canada, do we need to keep going?).

[David White]

Suggest you journalists take a look at the footage before forming a view on Hamilton's approach on Lap 2. He wasn't hot headed -watch the footage!!!

Massa messed up on Lap 2 and Hamilton didn't even try to overtake. Go to the formula 1 website
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/10/8530.html

and you can get all the replays you need. The incident between Hamiton and Massa is clear - Hamilton shapes to overtake Massa, then reaches the breaking zone. Realising he's too far back he pulls back onto the racing line ready to follow Massa through the corner. However, Massa outbreaks himself, runs wide and loses the position. Hamilton takes the racing line through the corner, with no lock of brakes and then gets punted as Massa, realising his misstake, desparately tries to hold his position.
Interesting, Massa has commented that Hamilton braked very late and forced him wide. Watch the footage and you'll see that basically Massa outbraked himself because Hamilton pressured him into making the misstake.

[Richard]

FURIO - I can see what you mean by the display on the steering wheel, but it just could be telling the driver that the car is in a particular mode used to pull away e.g. the clutch is disengaged etc.

If he'd have tried to pull away in a high gear thinking he was in first, the anti-stall device would have kicked in, the clutch would have been disengaged, and he'd have gone nowhere.

The fact that he was still level with Kimi at the first corner proves his start was not as badly compromised as that, although it clearly wasn't the best of starts.

[Richard]

DAVID WHITE - I'm glad someone talks sense on here. Your assessment of Massa's incident is exactly the way I saw it. Massa so obviously failed to turn into the corner, and Hamilton took, as you say, the normal line through it. Personally, I think Massa deserved a harsher penalty than the one he got because he still gained advantage over his championship rival, even with the penalty imposed.

Mind you, I suppose it isn't the first time we've seen a championship won because one of the protagonists rammed the other, remember 1994? Now, who was that, oh yes, I remember, it was Massa's mentor Michael Schumacher! Maybe we'll see Massa parking at the Rascasse next year.

[Furio]

RICHARD:
"I can see what you mean by the display on the steering wheel, but it just could be telling the driver that the car is in a particular mode used to pull away e.g. the clutch is disengaged etc."

The clutch is disengaged???? Then he would be still and the engine revs would be high as hell ...

"If he'd have tried to pull away in a high gear thinking he was in first, the anti-stall device would have kicked in, the clutch would have been disengaged, and he'd have gone nowhere."
I can have my Focus 1.6L start in 4th gear, and I bet her engine has much less torque than Mercedes' F1 engine.
Also please read your own statement a few lines above ("e.g. clutch disengaged" - "the clutch would have been disengaged").

Is there anybody out there so competent to tell us what is supposed to be displayed in the display at the center of the McLaren steering wheel?

[Higgs]

DAVID WHITE, RICHARD

I think the reason why so many people misunderstood the Massa/Hamilton incident was because we did not get to see why Massa was ahead of Hamilton in the live feed. The assumption that many made was that Massa tried to outbrake Hamilton, but left the braking too late, which allowed Hamilton to repass.

I don't think that Massa intentionally rammed Hamilton, as he risked damaging his own car, which he could not afford to do.

[Furio]

RICHARD
"The fact that he was still level with Kimi at the first corner proves his start was not as badly compromised as that, although it clearly wasn't the best of starts."

The fact that he "returned" level with Kimi at the first corner proves he did not brake until getting deep into the corner (and soon outside the track ...)

[CSM]

I can count, by heart, seven drivers that would not help Lewis: Glock, Weber, Kimi, Massa, Kubica, Fernando, Bourdais...all of them have suffer his "way of drivig" this year. But, that is not important: a champion is so because his own mentality: the biggest enemy of Lewis Hamilton is just Lewis Hamilton.

[Furio]

Massa's penalty was well deserved.
The brazilian was trying to drive a different line into the corner in order to avoid Lewis to outbrake him (I am sure Felipe knows that Lewis excells at late braking into corners) but found a Toyota on his way and he was forced to change his line. This is very clear from the onboard camera footage.
At that point Lewis put his car in the inside (in a very legitimate way) and passed him. Felipe's desperate attempt not to loose his position resulted in hitting Lewis. Felipe's totally at fault, and he shouldn't blame somebody else for his own mistake.

IMHO the FIA footage shows very clearly that also Hamilton's and Bourdais' penalties were well deserved.

Hamilton forced Kimi out of the track and Bourdais was behind Felipe entering turn 1, so he was supposed to let him past, which he didn't.

[Furio]

CSM: Bourdais and Webber, would they help Felipe? Do you really think so after Japan?
Kubica will try to grab the title so he won't help neither.
Glock? I am not sure he will be able to see Lewis or Massa in the next two GPs.
Fernando? Well, for sure he doesn't love Lewis, and yes he said he will help Felipe, but I think he's hungry of wins so I suspect he will help only himself.

And that's the way it should be. I hope nobody (besides the team mates) will try to do something in order to help one of the three contenders for the title.

[Richard]

FURIO - I don't know if you're deliberately misunderstanding me or whether things are just getting lost in the translation. Either way, you seem to be in a particularly argumentative mode over this when I was suggesting an explanation of what might have happened.

When the car is stationary, the clutch is disengaged, as I'm sure you'll agree. All I'm saying is that it may be completely normal that the display may not have shown the number 1 when he pulled away. It may be because of the mode the driver sets during the start of the race. I didn't say it was definitely the case, I was merely offering a possible explanation.

I'm sure you can start your Focus in 4th gear, but a) if you tried to release the clutch as normal, it would stall, so you would have to slip the clutch a lot, and b) I'm sure you agree that it would be a much slower start than if you'd started in 1st gear.

The fact that an F1 car has more torque is irrelevant. It also has practically no inertia to speak of, no flywheel, and a very sharp clutch, so stalling would be much easier. They also operate in a narrow and very high rev range. You can't slip the clutch like that on an F1 car without risking damage to it, and the anti-stall is not something the driver controls. If you want to see how difficult it is to pull away in a modern F1 car in 1st gear without the anti-stall cutting in, watch this, and then consider what it would be like in 4th gear:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/top-gear-formula-one_143033.htm

I realise Hamilton braked late to get level with Kimi, but no amount of late braking would have allowed him to be so close if he'd started in 4th. Come to think of it, can a modern F1 car even allow a driver to attempt to start in 4th gear? Perhaps Ed could find out.

[Furio]

RICHARD:
First of all thanks for passing me that link. I really enjoyed the video. Too bad we haven't got anything like that in Italian tv!
Second, I am sure you fill forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, there's some sort of language barrier between the two of us, so please accept my apologize for that.

[Furio]

RICHARD: Come to think of it, can a modern F1 car even allow a driver to attempt to start in 4th gear? Perhaps Ed could find out.

Well, I am sure Ed is a real expert in this subject (remember the Fiat 500, Ed?)

;-)