Stop the Attacks on Lebanon and Israel Now

After four weeks of Israeli air attacks on Lebanon which are killing far more civilians than they are members of Hezbollah, with around a 1,000 dead on both sides, and with a ceasefire some way off, I have decided to return to this subject briefly to post a statement on the issue from the Israeli Arab human rights organisation Mossawa, which is based in Haifa and offers a strikingly different perspective on the killings. I would like to remind readers that my stated position is that Israel has the right to respond to the Hezbollah attacks, that while I accept others differ, I regard Hezbollah as terrorists and back Israel's desire to see them eliminated as a military force. But I believe that the Israeli air strikes, which are clearly indiscriminate, are not only incapable of achieving this aim but are counter-productive and will only do further damage not just to Lebanon but to the whole of the Middle-East. What follows is a statement from Mossawa:      

                  ACT TO STOP THE WAR IN LEBANON-ISRAEL–PALESTINE

The Mossawa Center and thousands of Arab civilians located in Haifa call upon the international community to act immediately to stop the war in Lebanon-Israel and Palestine. The Mossawa Center office is located only two blocks away from the houses that were shelled in Wadi Nisnas. Mossawa staff assisted other Haifa citizens in the rescue of civilians during last night.

The Center calls for an end to the war against civilians and asks the international community take action and stop the bloodshed. “We need peace and the assistance of the international community to force all sides of the conflict to respect human rights in the Middle East. This war is a shame on humanity and the values we supposedly have in human rights. It is the responsibility of the international community to help protect civilians on all sides and stop the war,” says Jafar Farah, director of the center.

The Arab citizens in Israel have consistently stood against war and have stood for support of peace agreements; they are both citizens of Israel, and Arabs and Palestinians. Although they are experiencing personal losses in Israel because of the attacks by Hizbollah, their friends and family in Lebanon and Palestine are being killed as result of the brutal attacks by Israel. Most of the Arab citizens find the Israeli government responsible for this avoidable war. The Israeli government’s historical policy to use force and one-sided solutions to end conflicts is serving only to further aggravate the war and fails to fully resolve political issues. Arab citizens also support negotiations with Hizbollah and exchanging prisoners as Israel has done in the past.

Background: Arab citizens in Israel
The Palestinian Arab community in Israel consists of 1.3 million citizens, making up 20 percent of the Israeli population and 10 percent of the global Palestinian population. While the Arab population has concentrations of communities in both central and southern Israel, 50 percent of the Arab population lives in the Galilee region of northern Israel, the region which has sustained most of the attacks.

Since the establishment of the Israeli state, the Arab community of Israel has experienced discrimination on both the social political level, in areas such as structural infrastructure, the education system, and welfare programs. One of the most appalling results of this discrimination is the fact that 50 percent of Arab families and 60 percent of Arab children of Israel live below the poverty line.

Arab citizens in Haifa:
Ten percent of the Haifa population is Arab. Most of the Arab population is located in the four neighborhoods of Wadi Nisnas, Halisa, Abas and Kababir. Wadi Nisnas, the neighborhood shelled yesterday, is the poorest and lacks bomb shelters and many public services.

There have been 37 civilian casualties in Israel so far. 15 of these casualties were Arab civilians, making up about 40 percent of the total civilian casualties.

Arab citizens of Israel killed by rockets:

Haifa 7.8.2006:
Hanna Hamam, 62 years old
Labiba Mazzawi, 67

Arab Elaramshe 5.8.2006:
Fideye Juma’a, 60
Sultana Juma’a, 33
Samira Juma’a, 31

Mgaar village 4.8.2006:
Manal Azam, 26

Majd Elkrom village 4.8.2006:
Baha Krayem, 34
Mhamad Mana’a, 24

Tarshiha 3.8.2006:
Muhamad Fau’ur, 17
Shinati Shinati, 20
Amir Na’im, 18

Mgaar village 25.7.2006:
Dua’a Abas, 15

E’ebelin 23.7.2006:
Awad Habib, 46

Nazareth 20.7.2006:
Rabie Taluzi, 3
Mahmud Taluzi, 7

The Mossawa Center is a non-profit, non-governmental advocacy organization for the Arab citizens of Israel. The Mossawa Center acts for the social, political and economic rights of the Arab-Palestinian community in Israel.

For more information contact Jafar Farah, director of the Mossawa Center: 0546877212

Comments

[Lindyloo]

Mick, thank you for posting this message and as you rightly point out offering a strikingly different perspective. It is very easy in the midst of all this to forget the 20 per cent Israelis who are Palestinian Arabs, many of them internal refugees from the time they were driven out of their villages in 1948 to make way for the European Jews.

Of course Israel has the right to defend herself (although that right does not appear to extend to the Palestinians) but she would engender far more support if she did so in accordance with international law, and if her calls for UN resolutions regarding Lebanon to be complied with were coupled with her own compliance with the many UN resolutions regarding Palestine. Rather she seems hell bent on shooting herself in the foot, and pushing many thousands more into the arms of the extremists, threatening not only herself but her supporters as well.

But maybe there is another issue here which explains the disproportionate attack on Lebanese infrastructure - Israel has always made much of being the only democracy in the Middle East - and still describes herself as such. Could it be that fledgling democracies in the region, like Lebanon, threaten that position?

[Professor Paul E M Reynolds]

Good perspective, and constructive. One can easily understand the application of the label 'terrorist' to Hizbullah - it is important for Israel's propaganda understandably, and critical in the US-Israel relationship, linking Hizbullah to the War on Terror. However it can be misleading if the aim is to seek a way out of the violence and stop further civilian deaths - an aim which you profess. Hizbullah was formed a year after the previous Israeli invasion in Lebanon, largely by local people enraged as the occupation and the inevitable mistreatment of Lebanese that followed. After 2000 Hizbullah were seen as victors against a strong Israel - militarily and politically. In Lebanon they were seen as guarantors of the territorial integrity in the South, (many say they abused this status) but all through this period, Syria had a major presence, and to a great extent called the shots on security matters in Lebanon. That all changed when Syria were kicked out of Lebanon too, recently. This event changed the position of Hizbullah dramatically. Syria gone meant that Hizbullah was the strongest military force in Lebanon, and given popular support in the South, they were the de facto army.

With progress in democracy in Lebanon, Hizbullah in its political form, entered Parliament. With Syria out of the way, and members of Hizbullah in the Cabinet, the path towards implementation of UN Resolutions on the extention of Lebanese government authority in the South became clear - the integration of Lebanese fighters (under the Hizbullah banner) into the de jure Lebanese armed forces. The resultant 'strong' Lebanese army would have created a significant counterweight to Israel and is possibly one of the reasons why the IDF reacted in the way it did. Why were the Lebanese fighters (under Hizbullah flag) encouraged by Syria and Iran to launch the original strike against the border a month ago ? We shall probably never know for sure but one must suspect that at the same time, the Hamas 'Prisoner Statement' being accepted by the Hamas Government (but not the Damascus wing it seems), created the prospect of peace. It implicitly accepted the existence of Israel. This would have removed a political 'crutch' of legitimacy on which both Syria and Iran rely heavily. With Olmert as Israeli PM - not a military man like Sharon - Syria and Iran could rely on Olmert not being able to say 'no' to an IDF overreaction, fueled by revenge talk ever since their ignomionious dismissal from Lebanoin in 2000. They could predict Israel's disproportionate response without much analysis !

[Jim Peters]

Mick

Good post, and well done for bringing attention to plight of Israeli Arabs, also for your earlier work on the exposé of the Downing Street Memos. The first, it would seem from an apparently never ending series of highly dubious dealings. Incidentally, were you aware that once again Downing street compliance is once again in the forefront of the current massacre ongoing in Lebanon?

Blood on his hands
“Blair knew the attack on Lebanon was coming but he didn't try to stop it, because he didn't want to. He has made this country an accomplice, destroying what remained of our influence abroad while putting us all at greater risk of attack” By John Kampfner

Source http://www.newstatesman.com/200608070017

You do seem to be parroting the “politically correct” and thus highly euphemistic and careful not to offend for fear of being labeled as “anti-Semite” “Israel has every right to defend herself” from what???? From Palestinian family on the beach?

“Israel later admitted this was a lie as well as its denial about shelling and killing a Palestinian family on Gaza’s beach. Such admissions don’t make the news."

Source: http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/33711

Or rocket attacks from Qana

“Hamas Qassam rockets and Hezbollah’s barrage of inaccurate rockets. BUT, more importantly, they accept and parrot at face value Israel’s lies and propaganda such as its lie that Hezbollah fighter were firing rockets from Qana prior to its massacre”

Source: http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/33711

Also for your information

the two Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanon

source: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israeli_solders.html

So what on earth has this got to do with Israel defending itself??

Oh and one final point which you seem to be unaware of is that Hezbollah are not a terrorist organization but:-

“Of course, Hezbollah is not “al-Qaeda,” the infamous CIA-ISI made-to-measure terror group. Hezbollah is a legitimate resistance group, completely legal under international law, minus its stupid rocketing of Israeli settlements.”

Source http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=500

Jim Peters

[Mick says: I'm sorry but while I accept that Hezbollah and Hamas are political parties, I cannot accept - given Hezbollah's past record and the "stupid rocketing", yes stupid but also murderous - that the Israelis have no right to defend themselves. It is the mass murder the Israelis are commiting against the Lebanon which is unacceptable. The arguments made in since the Lebanese people voted for Hezbollah so they only brought it on themselves, are completely fatuous. There are just 12 Hezbollah MPs in the 128-member Lebanese parliament.]

[Frank Schnittger]

Given that Gerry Adams was for many years a Westminster MP, does that make the UK complicit in IRA violence? That seems to be the logic of bombing Lebanon because some Hezbollah members got elected to Parliament.

[Chuck Unsworth]

Israel is projecting this warfare as a 'battle for survival'. That is a complete misrepresentation of the reality. There is absolutely no danger of Hizbollah subjugating the nation state of Israel, although it's clear that it can and is inflicting some damage and casualties. The portrayal of the Israelis as victims has historically been useful - and in some instances valid. However others, particularly Hizbollah and the Palestinians, have now adopted the same position. There is some truth in all of this, but a little objective scrutiny may reveal a different picture.

There is a common perception that Israel's use of force has been indiscriminate and disproportionate. That may be so, but in any event extensive aerial attacks on the civil infrastructure of the Lebanon do nothing to interdict the activities of Hizbollah. Such actions as bombing the oil tanks at Jiyeh have caused major ecological damage to the eastern Mediterranean affecting many countries including Syria, Cyprus and so on. But how does such action stop Hizbollah from launching its rockets into Israel? Bombing of airports and bridges is farcical. How many airports or bridges does Hizbollah actually own?

The apparent collateral damage and loss of life has served to engender huge local and international support for Hizbollah - a body which in recent times has been regarded by many as a pariah. Increasingly isolated and irrelevant to the burgeoning Lebanese nation, in time that organisation would simply have faded, powerless to stop a drift of its supporters away to the more comfortable, prosperous and congenial surrounding society.

Extremists and terrorist groups always need a 'cause' to generate support, in much the same way as Israel has capitalised on its 'cause' (however laudable). Hizbollah's 'cause' was becoming less relevant to most Lebanese.

Thus militarily and politically this is a disaster. Israel is apparently unable to stop rockets from falling on its territory, it has antagonised any moderates that there may have been in Lebanon, and many others worldwide. Israel has not achieved its stated objectives and has lost face. Israel's international supporters are now having to reposition to demanding peace. Hizbollah has gained status as a military force and as a political leader. One has to wonder at Olmert's lack of foresight, unless, of course this has all been a ploy to increase his own status within Israel - but maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

There's a lot to be said for democracy and capitalism. Imperfect as they are, they are also very powerful weapons. Perhaps it would have been wise to consider how best to trade with the enemy, rather than trading blows. Where there is mutual economic dependence it is most unlikely that either party would wish to disrupt arrangements for joint benefit. Perhaps it is time for Israel to consider how best to compromise its enemies, rather than making ill-considered attempts to destroy them.

[Neil Murphy]

"Perhaps it would have been wise to consider how best to trade with the enemy, rather than trading blows."

I think Israel does this where it can, but given that most Arab countries don't officially recognize Israel, it's a little difficult. Additionally, most Arab countries are economically backward and show little sign of trying to change this, so that reduces trading opportunities.

For those who try to suggest hizbollah are not terrorists, it's worth remembering that they have periodically and indiscriminately rocketed Israel, and also committed terrorist outrages elsewhere, such as south america, where they killed more than 80 jews in a single strike.

[Frank Schnittger]

Sorry Mick - does not compute. You are not getting the usual storm of responses to this Blog because the Statement you published does not conform to the usual stereotype of a Zionist paradise confronted by an Evil Islamofascist conspiracy.

Good Arab Moslems? They can't exist, so we have to ignore their dignified statement. It's probably just a propaganda piece designed to gull gullible bleeding heart westerners into questioning the usual Western/Communist or Western/Islamist dichotomy.

Now if you had published a really blood curdling statement by Hamas or Hezbollah, how much happier we would all be. Your blog would be buzzing with righteous indignation. We would all feel oh so justified for bombing them and anybody who gets in the way into oblivion.

So if you want to up your ratings Mick, you had better get with the program and introduce some "balance"! How about the latest best selling speech by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?

[Mick says: Good point Frank. To be fair to Emanuel, he has tried to post but despite a couple of weeks of editing his posts to remove the offensive personal insults in order to try to protect his right to free speech I have had to accept that I must ban him from posting or risk having other posters intimidated from posting.]

[Lissa Caldwell]

Having just returned from the Near East I have a slightly different perspective of this conflict. With all the Israeli propaganda floating around I realize it is difficult for most people to realize what is actually going on. This is NOT about Israeli's right to defend itself. That old worn out excuse is extremely inacurate. To begin with the two Israeli soldiers who were captured by Hezbollah were not in Israel but in the Shebba Farms area of Lebanon - a small piece of Lebanon Israel has occupied for years. (Israel has a bad habit of occupying other people's land - Syria, Lebanon, the West Bank , Gaza....) The Israeli soldiers were captured to use as a bargining chip for the return of Lebanese prisoners. Israel has another bad habit of routinely kidnapping people, putting them in prison and throwing away the key. There they may languish for years under horrendous circumstances with no charges brought against them. The present campaign against Hezbollah has been planned for years just waiting for some little excuse - any excuse - set it off. Does a civilized country commit genocide because two of its soldiers are captured?? Let's get real! The fact that bombs "Made in the USA" are being used to decimate Lebanon gives me nightmares. I keeping seeing the bodies of little children and babies being pulled out of the rubble in Lebanon and burned screaming people being helped in Gaza. The entire Arab population is constantly seeing these horrific images too. They are linning up in the streets to join Hezbollah. Israel, the US and the UK have made Osama Bin Laden's job so much easier.

The fact that Israeli casualties are predominately Arab testifies to the true nature of Israel. The progaganda machine bills Israel as the only democracy in the Middle East - in reality it is an apartheid state just like the South Africa of old. Arab sections of Israel have few if any bomb shelters - those are for Jews. I remember a few years ago when the head rabbi of Israel came out and called the Palestinians "vermin and lice." Charming!

One day the Israeli people will wake up and realize there will only be peace when there is justice. You cannot humilate, occupy or bomb people into peace.

[James]

Just saw the news about the Islamofanatic plan to target British airplanes and to blow them up with liquid explosives.

Play with evil; sign treaties with evil; negotiate with evil; invite evil into your country; and guess what?

You get more of it.

James

[Karen Tabaka]

Mick~ I'm an American citizen concerned over the entire Middle East situation and I grieve, as do many Americans, for the loss of innocent lives.

The Mossawa Center's call for a stop to all the attacking is falling on deaf ears.

In the U.S. I have not heard one word on the main stream media of the Israeli soldiers being captured on Lebanese soil. Instead, the message is: unfortunately the Hizbollah provoked Israel with the kidnapping of two soldiers and death(the number varies) of additional Israeli soldiers. This has been repeated over, and over and over to the point that the sheeple and news outlets such as Fox News deem it to be fact.In summation, Israel can defend itself, disportionately or not. That's just the way it is. Sad.

This simplistic viewpoint fosters the adminstration's terrorist viewpoint of Hizbollah. Once the terrorist label is applied, it's Katy bar the door for the growth of our military industrial complex and the quest for oil. Loss of human life is inconsequential. Our President is yet to attend on funeral of a fallen soldier from Iraq or Afghanistan.

It's August in America...the House and Senate are on vacation as is the President. Condi and the President are at odds over the cease-fire, Bolton is arrogantly bullying the UN and life goes on and nothing gets done.

In the meantime and consequently, the Lebanese people,the Arab Israelis and the Palestinians truly suffer. This will be a long, bloody war (with the possibility of spilling over more borders) unless one side just gives up. Peace and cessation of fire doesn't serve those in power and that's why I say that talk of peace is falling on deaf ears. That's just the way it is. So incredibly sad.

[JD]

"Play with evil; sign treaties with evil; negotiate with evil; invite evil into your country; and guess what?

You get more of it.

James"

Thanks for that magnificently astute analysis James: why not engage brain before opening your 'e-mouth'? How would you have felt about that sort of comment from a Brit just after 9/11? Presumably, on that basis, your nation 'plays with evil' more than the UK? In fact, come to think of it, given your - continuing - record on IRA funding and sympathisers, you do, don't you?

It would be just as possible, and just as dogmatically incorrect, to suggest that this attempt was made precisely because we are 'fighting evil' in Iraq and Afghanistan, and not forcing the Israelis to stop slaughtering the innocent.

[James]

Both the US and Britain, JD, allowed in Islamofanatics who are hellbent on destroying Western civilization. Britain has allowed in far, far more, percentagewisen than has the US (and they are multiplying far faster than the depopulating secularist Euros). Whole sections of British cities are coming under Muslim control; whole European cities are under effective Muslim control; 1 in 3 people born in Europe today is Muslim; major Dutch cities will be majority Muslim in a few short years. Of all those Muslims, a large and significant percentage are on the side of Islamofanatic terrorists. That's millions of people - IN YOUR COUNTRY!

So far, Europe is too dumb to do anything about it (other than to appease).

Just like in the past, the terrorists apprehended in Britain today are home-grown (according to the press reports). Same with those in Canada who planned to BEHEAD THE PRIME MINISTER.

All of this is dumb, dumb, dumb.

Europe is full of Muslims hellbent on conquering it, and full of natives hellbent on helping them do it.

James

[JD]

James, I hate to be boring, but that last post doesn't even make sense: first you rant about all the people we have 'allowed in', implying that because we let refugees in, we're guilty, and they're the enemy within, and then you state that 'just like in the past, the terrorists are homegrown'...

Either they're the people we allow in, or they're home grown - stop ranting and think before posting. I also notice you have not answered my point about the US support/love of terrorists if they happen to wear emerald green hats: which particular sect of the christiano-facist-fundamentalists are you from?

[James]

"James, I hate to be boring..."

---

It's a difficult burden to bear, JD.

James

[Nina]

"Both the US and Britain, JD, allowed in Islamofanatics"

It's a pity the US has either admitted or spawned and nurtured so many Zionazis.. as they now dictate the most critical elements of US policy... with the best "bi-partisan" Congress shekels can buy.

We've now a single party system; that party is called Likud.

[Frank Schnittger]

JD - I think most of us have known for some time that talking to James is like talking to a computer which has no input process and only four or five output responses.

These include:

1) "Moslems now constitute 1 in 3 births in Europe" (factually wrong by a factor of 10)

2) "you must crush terrorism" (which means you must crush the US/Israel as Israel and the IDF were born out of a terrorist campaign and the US through agencies like the CIA and various proxies have been guilty of many terrorist acts) and

3) "Europeans are......." followed by a variety of laughable assertions and generalisations often related to religious practice which betray very little knowledge of Europe and a very sectarian and theologically suspect understanding of Christianity (as Rachel has pointed out).

4) He also has various vast generalisations to make about Moslems which come straight out of the Monty Python school of politics and

5) a complete blind spot as to why American military presence in over 100 countries in the world might be perceived by some as imperialist or neo-imperialist (a concept he dosn't understand).

I'm afraid free speech comes with a price, and part of that price is that you sometimes have to listen to some people parroting the same Fox news clichés again and again regardless of the topic or the subtleties and complexities of the particular point under discussion.

Some people have a need to feel important by denigrating what they can't understand. It's best to just ignore them.

[Lindyloo]

I have to respond to you James - I am presuming you live in the US where your "news" is that propoganda churned out by Fox et al, so I do have to have some sympathy for your abject ignorance but where is your evidence for your fanciful claims? I could as well make such claims about Israel or the US? Where are these cities in the UK run by Muslims????! And do you actually know any Muslims to be able to comment???? I live in a town with a large Muslim community - and have worked within the community for many years - part of their problem is that they are not properly represented. You are talking the sadly dangerous nonsense which in Nazi Germany, because of their baseless characterisation of the Jews, lead to the holocaust. I am afraid you, like the terrorists, and our disgraceful self seeking leaders, are part of the problem, not part of the solution. It is you and people like you who create the fear, hatred and suspicion which are the swamp the terrorists breed in. If you really care about the future of this planet and the death of innocent children I suggest you only open your mouth when you have some notion of what you are talking about.

[James]

Hey Lindyloo, Frank, JD,

Here's the solution for y'all and the rest of Western Europe -

- invite in millions more Muslims to your countries. Never stop bringing in millions more;

- allow Muslims to Islamify towns and cities as they become the majority there;

- set up laws that prohibit or inhibit anyone's saying anything negative about that - and silence anyone who does by publicaly castigating them as 'Islamaphobes' and 'racists' (I know, I know, Islam is not a race. But that doesn't matter... It's a strategy for silencing people...);

- throw away your Christian roots (if you had any [which I suspect you didn't);

- massively depopulate (i.e., stop having enough children to replace yourselves) - and embrace and glorify abortion, contraception and buggery;

- engage in endless appeasement of the heads of Islamofanatic governments;

- stop the BBC from using the word 'terrorist' and from talking about 'terrorism' (so upsetting you know);

- attack America as the true threat to world peace;

- get Prince Charles and Rowan Williams to equivalate Christianity with Islam;

- start talking about sharia law in different areas of your countries;

- set up a war memorial to Neville Chamberlain.

There, that should do it.

Oh, wait, what? You say you've done all those things already?!?

Well, then we must be on the same page...

James

[Mick says: Come on now James admit it. You havent the faintest idea what you're talking about have you?

It was a rhetorical question James, give someone else the chance to make their points and then I'll let you come back in.]

[James]

"It is you and people like you who create the fear, hatred and suspicion which are the swamp the terrorists breed in."

---

Here's the thing, Lindyloo. Until Muslim fanatics started blowing up people and children (including their own) with nailbombs all over the world, I didn't have the slightest quarrel with Muslims.

Now that they do that, and now that the vast majority of Muslims are NOT fighting tooth and nail against that - I sure as hell do. (Heck, here where I live, Muslims CELEBRATED on 9/11 - and the only thing they fight for around here is to never be offended.)

Well - that just dudn't cut it with most Americans. (You know, those evil, Nazi, world tyrant fanatic Americans...) And ya know what? It wouldn't cut it with any sane, normal, reasonable and moral human being... (Most of whom, by the way, live in America these days...)

And now that the Muslim fanatics have declared (over and over and over) that they intend to detonate nuclear bombs in my country - I have a problem with that. (I know, I know, so reactionary...) And you know what? I believe them! I think they are going to try and do that. That's obviously in their character. They just keep proving it over and over.

And yes, Lindyloo, I know, it's my fault that they're driving airliners into skyscrapers and blowing up airplanes and little children on purpose.

I apologize for causing Islamofanatic terroism all over the world.

James

[Lindyloo]

OK Dear sweet adorable James,

Clearly someone who really has the wellbeing of his planet at his heart. I would be more than happy to listen to your drivel if I thought it contained even a modicum of evidence........so...........lets dissect your analysis (maybe that is too strong a word) your rantings.....

So. Number one......its your fault they drive planes into skyscrapers........no, I don't think so. Although I think it may have a little to do with your government who created Bin Laden at a time when the word on the street was that the real threat to western civilization was the Soviet Union. Remember those days? Maybe not, I assume you were in nappies then. I remember them well, I was serving in the British Army during the "cold" war.

So, lets bring it down to the word on the street now. Heck, we've lost the old enemy-need a new one, guess what - Muslim fanatics, the tragedy is that those fanatics are playing into the arms of the Neo-cons every step of the way. So, I have no problem whatsoever with you decrying terrorists, I agree, I decry both terrorists and state terrorists, which sadly includes Israel, the US and the UK. What I find totally inexcusable is that you encompass all Muslims as if they were all terrorists. That is like you telling me because I am a Christian (ah, sorry, haven't forgotten my roots - in fact they are what motivate me - remember the commandment "You shall not kill" or the words of Jesus "Turn the other cheek" ???) I am somehow responsible for the IRA......... No James, I am no more responsible for the IRA than the majority of law abiding Muslims who decry what is happening. And please don't tell me they don't rail against what is happening, the problem is - for the largely blood thirsty press (sorry Mick!) that isn't a story. The fact actually that as far as I know Mick was the only one to pick up the Mossawa story supports my point.

So James, as a Brit I have to say I am ashamed of my country's foreign policy and if you think yours is OK I would love to know why?

The past two days we have been agonising about the potential horrific loss of life if the planes had been attacked.......but very little agonising about far greater loss of life already happening as a result of our foreign policy - if it is the Iraqis or Lebanese or Palestinians or Israelis or even the British caught up in 7/7 ..........no wonder the Muslims rightly accuse us of double standards.

Sorry James, but my Christian roots lead me to believe that we are all, regardless or religion or lack of it, made in the image of God, anything which denies that, dehumanises or demonises a person on the basis of their race or religion, is tantamount to blasphemy.

[James]

Dear Lindyloo,

I have not dehumanised anyone.

Islamofanatic barbarians have done that to themselves.

James

[JD]

"- massively depopulate (i.e., stop having enough children to replace yourselves) - and embrace and glorify abortion, contraception and buggery;"

Ha ha ah ah ah - sorry, I can't stop laughing at this one: 'Jimmy the Spanish Inquisition' speaks.... I'm off to impregnate the 400 Muslim women per hour necessary to maintain the birth rate James postulates for '1 in 3 births in europe' being Muslim... G'night all...

[Freedom]

No James. You dehumanise somebody every time you speak in those sweeping and inaccurate generalisations of yours. You dehumanise Europeans when you characterise us all as having lost our Christian roots.

You dehumanise Christians when you send them out to kill in indiscriminate wars against Moslems around the world.

You dehumanise Moslems when you characterise them all as terrorists or terrorist sympathisers.

You dehumanise Lebanese civilians when you characterise them as Hezbollah sympathisers and bomb them all to oblivion.

You dehumanise Palestinians when you terrorise them out of their lands and park them in Refugee camps, tribal reservations and Bantustan like "homelands" with a Quisling Government and no prospect of economic viability.

You dehumanise the family when you treat it as some sort of child production machine to out populate Moslems.

You dehumanise Americans when you send them out to ongoing wars like that in Iraq which you have yourselves created by a lack of foresight, wisdom, and planning - all caused by an overweening arrogance that you know best.

And yes - many Islamic militants do exactly the same thing when they demonise America as the great Satan - in much the same way as you demonised the Evil Empire - or Axis of Evil.

You are a Godfather of terrorism. 9/11 is nothing compared to the destruction you have wrecked on many peoples around the world. And we are now also paying the price because the Islamic Militants are just as indiscriminate as you are. You have taught them well.

[James]

"So James, as a Brit I have to say I am ashamed of my country's foreign policy and if you think yours is OK I would love to know why?"

---

Sure, Lindyloo - It's after work here in the States, so I have a minute or two.

First, humans were created in God's image, but they fell - and they are innately attracted to selfishness, depravity, pride and pure evil. They need God to lift them back up, and to make them fit for heaven. That is what all of Christianity is about. Such requires true repentance for sin. The Islamofanatic barbarians don't recognize the purposeful murder of infidel children as sin; therefore, they are (by Christian theology) doomed to hell (and there won't be any 72 virgins either...just demons).

I have not identified all Muslims as terrorists, or as terrorist sympathizers. But a very large and significant percentage of them are. That's a simple fact. Further, Islam is about spiritual (and military) jihad. Muhammed was a military jihadist himself - responsible for the purposeful slaughter of thousands. The jihadists are the ones who are being true to the religion.

Taking millions into your country, a significant percentage of whom intend your murder and destruction, is a form of insanity.

As for my country's foreign policy - it simply states that we will not tolerate governments or groups that support the use of terror against us. (I know, I know - so unreasonable...) The first duty of our government (I don't know about yours.) is to protect its citizens. Further, since terror-supporting nations are looking to obtain weapons of mass destruction, we have put the world on notice that we will, if necessary, preempt such nations from doing so. (If they will not make clear whether or not they have them, we will assume they do.) That is what is required in today's world to protect our citizens. We do not apologize for that (nor should we).

We do not seek to take over the world; we do not purposefully go out and blow up children with nail bombs all over the world; we do not engage in terrorism ourselves (the PURPOSEFUL murder of innocents for political gain). (If we did, we would win the war on terror in two minutes flat - as we would bomb every city, mall, airline, store, etc. etc. in the terror world - or just drop nukes on the terror countries.) We don't do that (though they would do that to us in two seconds flat). However, we will fight terrorists, and there will be, sadly, some death to innocents. That is not purposeful murder (what that commandment talks about, by the way); it is the sad cost of fighting terrorist evil (which in this case purposefully hides behind civilians). It was exactly the same in World War II - where innocent lives were sometimes lost in the fight against Nazi and Jap evil. That is part of the Christian moral idea of choosing the lesser evil, when one has no choice but to choose one. When your neighbor comes to murder you and yours, you have the right Christian duty to protect your wife and children, and if some of the people taking up residence in your neighbor's house get hurt in the ensuing fight, so be it.

And further, if Islam wants to get out of the terror business (It won't.), and to build up its countries into something decent, that would be AOK by us. (Indeed, we are trying to help Iraq, Morocco, Jordan, Indonesia, Bosnia, Turkey, etc. etc. do just that.)

Any other questions?

James

[MichaelG]

Questions? Not for you James. We've heard all your answers 100 times before and you've never had anything particularly insightful to say. Feel free to proselytise elsewhere.

[James]

"You are a Godfather of terrorism."

---

Come back to this universe, freedom. (The sane one...)

James

[Freedom]

If you think Christinity is so much superior to Islam, why do you not just call this war what it is: A crusade against Islam - just as some Moslems are conducting Jihad against the west.

No need for obfuscation about WMD, spreading democracy, War against Terror, America's strategic interests etc. - it's quite simply a Crusade to eliminate an inferior religious form. Isn't that right James?

We're back in the 12th. Century. Yippie!!!

[Karen Tabaka]

My dear fellow American James~

1)You must to stop watching Faux news.
2)You must stop drinking the Kool-Aid. And,finally
3)Be careful, very careful who you label a terrorist. The term is morphing as we speak and encompasses more and more people.Patriots, dissenters and protestors can now, thanks to the Patriot Act, be labeled as terrorists. You know what they do with terrorists, don't you?Please, take a deep breath, and try to see the entire picture. Start by removing your blinders. I am being most sincere with these suggestions.

[James]

"If you think Christianity is so much superior to Islam, why do you not just call this war what it is: A crusade against Islam - just as some Moslems are conducting Jihad against the west."

---

Just as in the last millenium, the Christian west is defending itself against radical terroristic jihadist Islam.

The outcome will be the same.

James

[christopher muir]

One remembers all those European films after WW2 showing terrified
refugees fleeing from bullets
aimed at them from overhead Nazi dive bombers. Then, the message delivered was that such attacks were an atrocity. Are we supposed to accept the present similar carnage of innocents without protest? Don't "coalition of the willing" poiticians understand? I think the inappropriate catwalk wardrobe Condi Rice wears at press conferences reveals something about their "genuine" concern regarding the pressing humanitarian issues.

[James]

"Are we supposed to accept the present similar carnage of innocents without protest?"

---

No, Christopher, we're not. We are supposed to find the best way forward to minimize such sad things.

What many do not understand, however, is that sometimes, in order to root out evil, innocents will be hurt. The history of the world (and of good and evil) shows that. How can such be contemplated? - Because whenever you fail to root out evil, it grows, and the cost to innocents inevitably grows (and exponentially too).

A good example is World War II - where if the world had stepped in to confront Hitler early on, massive carnage and death to innocents later on could have been avoided. Instead, the evil was allowed to grow - until it threatened the whole world - and wreaked unbelievable devastation.

Israel understands that it must confront the evil arrayed against it (and so does President Bush). The alternative is to let it grow. And yes, carnage has ensued.

Notably, if the world had been far less accommodating and appeaseonist to terrorists, it would never have gotten to this point. If Lebanon had refused to accommodate and take unto itself an organization devoted to terror, it would have prevented much of the carnage now ensuing.

You can always have peace by surrendering to evil, and you can always save every innocent life by coming under the yoke of evil. Of course, you give up your soul in the process (just like in the communist countries - or in Lebanon).

The world now faces this test - either continue to accommodate more terrorist evil (and watch it grow into something mushroom-shaped), or duke it out now and repudiate it, completely and totally - even at the high cost now entailed. It's either pay in lots of blood now, or pay in lots more blood later.

Only fools think there is some other alternative. There isn't.

James

[Rachel]

James - you have constantly argued that it is the Christian duty to choose the lesser of two evils - whereas in fact it is the Christian duty not to do evil at all. "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39"

God does not need you or America to make war to defeat Islam or any other faith or ideology. You are usurping God's role when you do so. "Vengeance is mine, Saith the Lord" Romans 12:19-21. God alone has the wisdom and power and the right to take vengeance. Regarding war, Exodus 14:14 says, "The LORD will fight for you." War has never solved man's problems, and God promises that those who live by violence will die by it (Matthew 26:52).

You are constantly putting your silly theories of Good and Evil before God's word. It is not for you to decide who is Good or Evil. Our limited intelligence is not able to discern what is truly in Men's hearts and so you can't determine the true intent of either those you fight for or against. God doesn't need you to do his dirty work for him. Those who kill for Christianity, kill Christianity.

[christopher muir]

Interesting comments, James. I understand your points, but do you agree that innocent refugees should be shot at from the skies - that is, families pinpointed on electronic screens in the cockpits of warplanes? Even some Red Cross ambulances seem to have been similarly attacked. I know the excuse - those ambulances might conceal terrorists or bombs within their small confines. As they say, pity the children.

[Freedom]

Here's the difference, James.

America is a cruel and pagan society which seeks to cover up the barbarity of many of its actions and policies by putting forward a show of religiousity and civilisation by gong to Church and talking lots of morality. It is like Victorian England - all church going and morality but actually very hypocritical and cruel towards those less fortunate.

Europe is a Christian Society which lives its Christianity every day through its policies and actions and therefore does not need to put on a great show of religiousity and morality. It has done with the hypocrisy of Victorian England and Modern America by putting its faith into practice.

You hate Europe because its shows up your hypocrisy for what it is.

[James]

Here's the big picture, all of you.

We are being attacked consistently by people who use terror - the indiscriminate and purposeful murder of innocents - to get what they want.

Bombs in airplanes, airplanes into skyscrapers, bombs in schools, bombs in tourist hotels, bombs in embassies, bombs in restaurants, etc. etc. etc. (Just a couple weeks ago, terrorists blew up kids on a soccer field in Iraq - on purpose.)

The groups that do that both use and hide behind civilians (who are sympathetic to these groups anyway), and even use their own children in the terror.

Countries like Israel, the US, Britain - have to choose the lesser of two evils - eradicate these groups (and the idea that you can get what you want by blowing up children with nail bombs on purpose) - or allow the evil to get its way.

People who understand good and evil understand that as Edmund Burke said: "All that's necessary for the spread of evil is for good men to do nothing."

In World War II, massive carnage to innocents became necessary (in Japan, in Germany), precisely because the evil wasn't contained early on (which could have been done with far less innocent life-taking).

Similarly, the amount of terrorism we see today results from appeasing it yesterday. Now the fight is much bigger, and may envelop the world.

My guess? The Western liberal secular world does not have the will to contain this, and it will grow into a world war. At that time, just as in World War II, the destruction to innocents will be VASTLY greater than the cost to innocents now of containing this. It will likely be nuclear. The west will win.

Self-defense against evil is moral when you have no other choice but to let the evil envelop you. A father morally fights off attackers who seek to murder his wife and children.

For all those Hezbollah lovers, and lovers of terrorism, and lovers of Islamofanatic terrorism, I can only say this: the United States will defend itself against such evil, and will seek to quash the idea that it can get you what you want. Innocent life will be taken (not because anyone on this side wants that) - only because it has become necessary to quash the evil that DOES purposefully wish to murder and destroy innocent human life.

Finally, to you pansy Brits on this blog - London will likely be hit with a terror nuke sooner than later if you don't quash this evil now.

James

[James]

"Europe is a Christian Society..."

----

Haha. Good one, Freedom.

James

[MichaelG]

Well James, the fact that you cannot answer Rachel's points seems to prove that you are not a Christian. It seems Freedom has won the argument through your default.

You seem to be a "make-it-up-as-you-go-along kind of Christian - just take what suits you and ignore the uncomfortable facts. If Christianity has anything to do with the sort of bile you spew here, then I am glad I'm not a Christian. But actually I think that Christianity has a lot more to recommend it than the hatred you ooze from every pore.

I'm also glad that most Americans aren't like you. It is they that make America Great. You are the small-minded bore that takes the credit for America's achievements without having made the slightest contribution to those achievements or even understanding what does make America Great: The fact that it tolerates the likes of you but still manages to learn from its mistakes.

[christopher muir]

Mike,
I received this email today. How did the writer trace my email address? Thanks for a great discussion. [Email deleted]
chris
[Mick says: You put it up when you posted. I have now removed it. My suggestion to anyone who gets an email from this man Emanuel is to spam him or block him straight away.]

[Freedom]

Chris - Most of us have stopped posting our e-mail addresses and started using pseudonyms for this very reason. It's a sad day when you have to protect your privacy like this. The people who shout most about freedom also seem to be the first to abuse it.

[James]

"Well James, the fact that you cannot answer Rachel's points seems to prove that you are not a Christian. It seems Freedom has won the argument through your default. "

---

Sure, Michael G. I was not going to respond to Rachel, because I didn't think this blog was primarily about Christianity; but since you have an interest (and Rachel too), let's go.

When Jesus tells us to 'turn the other cheek,' he is telling us not to up a fight. He hit me, so I'm gonna hit him back and twice as hard, and then he hits me back, etc. etc. Revenge (getting back because it feels good) is prohibited to Christians (though not to Jews). Arabs (as far as I can see) live and breathe revenge, and it consumes many of their lives. Christians understand that revenge brings no true good into the world. (It just makes many feel better.) Christians also understand that true justice will be meted out right after we die (by Christ).

Further, when one can't get at you by hitting you, it saps away the desire of the person to hit you.

Further, Christ told us that he who lives by the sword will die by the sword. That is, those who seek to go out and conquer and destroy and take over others will come to an end in that same way. (Think, for example, Alexander the Great.) This is what will eventually happen to the Islamofanatics, just as Christ explained.

However - Christ did not tell us to give up love in order to let evil get its way. If a mad knife slasher comes to my door in the middle of the night and wants to rip out my heart and the hearts of my wife and children, I cannot in love turn to him and say: "Sure, rip away. Start with my kids..."

Obviously, in love I must protect and defend my wife and children and do what is necessary to stop the knife slasher. If I can only do so by killing him, I must. At that point, there is no possibility of any other way. I must choose the lesser of two evils (either him or my wife and children). Note that I did not kill him because I wanted to; I killed him because I was trying to love and protect my wife and children (and myself as well - for I have much good to bring into the world).

The same applies to nations (as in the Christian just war doctrine). If evil is coming into your nation to destroy and rape and murder, you are called to protect your nation (and the women and children in it) from that evil. If you cannot stop the evil in any other way, you must kill it (out of love for your own and other innocents).

Some people are confused in that Christ gave up his life to pure evil. Yes - that's true - but it was with a deep purpose in mind (to redeem mankind!!!!). In the same way, a Christian will often sacrifice his life for the other in love. ("No greater love hath a man than to lay down his life for his friends.") A Christian father would give his life to save those of his wife and children in two seconds flat.

Christ (and God) do not ask us to simply let evil murder us. If we did that, evil would swamp the world in two seconds flat, and take it over (my murdering millions). Evil doesn't care who it murders. (Think Islamofanatics...)

James

[James]

Also, Chris - I don't hate anyone (but I will dispatch a man trying to murder my wife and children, when there is no other way).

I call the Islamofanatics barbarians, because that is what they are. I pray for their conversions and for their souls (out of love), but it is their acts which make them barbarians. Until their hearts are converted (which will likely be never), I will defend innocents from them.

Also, Rachel - I have not proposed a war against Islam. Islam is proposing a war against us (just like in the first millenium).

Any Muslim nation that wants to build up something good for its people, the US will help (and always has).

James

[Freedom]

As usual James, you are making it up as you go along, to suit your own purposes. You have not used one Gospel quotation to support all your home spun philosophising. As usual you start with a seemingly straight forward common sense premise, and extrapolate it ad absurdum.

You use the “If a mad knife slasher comes to my door in the middle of the night and wants to rip out my heart and the hearts of my wife and children” example as if it is some sort of metaphor for the world in which America finds itself in, and then use that to explain and justify just about all of American foreign policy and actions in all situations.

The reality is that not even the most ignorant American foreign policy analysts understand American – or various Islamic countries foreign policies in such simplistic terms. I won’t give you a seminar on the tools Foreign policy analysts use to understand and direct Foreign policy/military interactions with other actors on the international stage – be they states, terrorist organisations, or multilateral agencies – because I don’t think you understand the first thing about foreign policy analysis.

For a long time I have been trying to make up my mind as to whether you were just being disingenuous – and using your homespun self serving made up theology as a cover for a basically American supremacist agenda and a lot of small town bigotry. But now I am inclined to think that you are simply incapable of understanding anything but the most simple cartoon characterisations of the world we live in.

So let me reduce things to the only level you appear to be able to operate at – and do a bit of homespun mythologizing myself (I won’t debase theology by using religious terminology)

America is not some innocent father lying sleeping passively in bed who suddenly finds himself confronted by a mad knife slasher in the middle of the night. In fact America is the most powerful, highly armed man on the planet (think Superman). America has troops stationed in 100 countries worldwide to make sure local regimes don’t do anything against American strategic (commercial, political, military) interests. America has staged or attempted over 50 coups against regimes it didn’t like around the world since 1945 – ranging from democratically elected governments who upset multinational corporations by nationalising local oil/mineral rights – to deposing dictators like Saddam. America has waged numerous wars (always on somebody else’s territory) to ensure no one could challenge America’s increasingly dominant position throughout the world.

Islamofascism (as you call it) is but a desperate attempt by a couple of regimes and a lot of fringe groups in other countries to retain some semblance of independence from American hegemony. They have hijacked Islam as a means of enrolling popular support for a cause that is only gradually gaining traction in the Islamic world – largely in response to blatant and flagrant interference by America in local politics of Islamic societies such as Iraq – but including almost every other “Islamic” country where the governing elites are almost all directly aligned with American foreign policy objectives (think Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt to name some of the more important).

So in terms of your incredibly simplistic homespun analogy, America is not the passive sleeping father, but an incredibly highly armed burglar intent on stealing the contents, independence and dignity of everyone in the house, and quite prepared to use overwhelming force or subterfuge to achieve his objectives. The Islamofanatics are the disturbed and distraught teenager of the house who is desperately trying to awaken and alert the father of the house to the presence of the intruder – and using desperate measures to fight back – throwing his toys at the highly armed American troopers , missiles and fighter jets – and ultimately sacrificing himself as a suicide bomber.

The twist at the end of the story is that the teenager doesn’t realise that his father knew about the intruder all along – and had sold out his family heirloom as protection money to be allowed to live in an American dominated world. The Burglar was actually only coming to collect on the deal – and wouldn’t have harmed anyone had he not been attacked by the teenager. After all why should he? He didn’t have to. The father had already signed over the deeds of the house to him.

Very simplistic I know, and foreign policy analysts would laugh at the over-simplification. However it is no more simplistic that the knife wielding slasher fairy tale you always quote – and a far more accurate representation of the world as it now is.

[James]

"because I don’t think you understand the first thing about foreign policy analysis"

---

Actually, freedom, I have a masters degree in international affairs from the Columbia University School of International Affairs (SIPA) in New York.

However, most international affairs is common sense (though sometimes [especialy in economics] unintuitive). Sure - there are many things to think of - what ones citizens want (as in a democracy), financial and security questions, the shaping of societies, balance of power, the use of diplomacy, etc. etc.

But many things in international affairs are quite simple - and it is (as I mentioned before) intellectuals and university students, and the insane media, and so forth, who stare constantly at the trees but cannot see, for the life of them, the forest.

Finally, the stuff I've been saying is, for the most part, the way our president thinks, and a good portion of the foreign policy and military estalishment in our country. Why? Because again, it's just common sense (and also, because our president understands the nature of evil).

James

[Freedom]

"Yo Blair, what we need to do is to get someone to talk to Syria about this Lebanon thingy and get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and its over"

Your President is a byword for stupidity around the world. Most of your countymen are embarassed to have him as their leader. International affairs is by definition not about "common sense" because common sense is local to the local culture you are operatimng in. You cannot understand the intentions of foreign actors through the prism of localised folklore.

And I know you claim your morality is objective and universal. However your understanding of it certainly isn't. I too have a Masters in International Affairs and I have never recognised anything in your contributions which betrays an understanding of any of the theories of international relations.

[James]

"I have never recognised anything in your contributions which betrays an understanding of any of the theories of international relations."

---

I believe you, freedom. You haven't.

James

[MichaelG]

Any School like the Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs which describes itself on its website as "The world's only global public policy school" is obviously based in a parallel universe - there are hundreds of such schools around the world.

I can see now why James lives in a parallel universe and why nobody can recognise any semblance of an International Affairs education in anything that he writes.

Tell me James - which theory of International relations enables you to identify good and evil states?

[Freedom]

So you admit your claim to have a Masters in International Affairs is bogus?

[James]

Hey all -

It's been a joy sparring with you. My oldest son's starting at Notre Dame, and we'll be leaving to take him there tomorrow.

Keep yourselves safe.

Will come back to take you on in a few days!

James

[MichaelG]

Nah - can't be bothered James. Please stay away.

Rachel has exposed your "Christianity" as bogus.

Freedom has exposed your "masters degree in international affairs from the Columbia University School of International Affairs (SIPA)" as bogus. You couldn't even answer the very simple question on theories of international relations which I put to you.

Your supposed support for the African liberation movements who oppossed Apartheid has been shown to be bogus by your support for the racist Apartheid homeland policies of Zionism.

You invent new "facts" about yourself whenever you can't answer a criticism - as when I accused you of being a white supremicist and you then came back and claimed to have a black wife. Do you beat her too? (You certainly are an American supremicist - always claiming that Americans are more moral than anybody else as a justification for all the wars America fights in other peoples land).

Freedom has likened talking to you to talking to a computer with only a few standard outputs and no input process.

Robin Bather has likened you to someone who just fills out a standard form of abuse and puts in "Communists", Islamofascist, European, liberal etc. depending on who you feel like insulting at the moment.

Nothing you ever say shows a any insight. You couldn't even answer Freedom when he adopted your own homespun terminology of the knife wielding Slasher coming into your home at night.

Anybody with any sense stopped talking to you a long time ago. By all means keep filling in the form. But please send it somwhere else - the local chapter of the KKK sounds about right.

[James]

"Anybody with any sense stopped talking to you a long time ago."

---

Which, therefore, MichaelG, would not include you, Robin Bather, and Freedom.

I'm off. Be good.

James

[MichaelG]

I know - I have taken the bait a few times too often. But I won't do it again. Life is too short.

[The 3rd Column]

There's no use trying to rationalize with Christianofanatic James.

As I've said once before, Christianofanatics are as dangerous as Islamofanatics, just like the James variety we have here.

If you notice Christianofanatic James has posted his same ad hominems hundreds of times in Mick's blog and in other blogs with virtually no variation, i.e., " the right but the duty to go in and eradicate the fanatics before they murder me and my family (and other innocents)." , "to you pansy Brits on this blog - London will likely be hit with a terror nuke sooner than later if you don't quash this evil now.", "because our president understands the nature of evil).", and other oddities of the same kind...

I believe it is only fair to warn the non-Christian populations of this world that Christianofanatics will always be Christianofanatics even when, for instance, Christianofanatic's last bullet has killed the last Hezbollah fanatic.

Ever the Christianofanatic crusaders that they are, they will create another war to continue their Christianofanatic crusade against those who are not like them. (Just try re-reading Christianofanatic James' posts and you'll understand!)

Truly, there is a risk that Christianofanatics might very well train their guns at the Jews for not being Christians and do a repeat of what the Nazis did against the Jewish people even after they've killed all the Islamofanatics. I won't be surprised at all that when their anti-Islamofanatics "crusade" is over, Christianofanatics will be quite capable of using the fanatical excuse of old: Jesus crucified and killed by the Jews.

A warning to the Jewish and the non-Christians of this planet: Better teach your children to spot Christianofanatics, they're more frightening than the evil Islamofanatics. Christianofanatics won't use nailbombs like their Islamic counterpart to kill and maim civilian babies and children, but they will use the nuke.