Ministre britannique de travail et retraites James Purnell

J. Purnell, Ministre britanique
by FRANCE_24

le tip de hat Iain Dale et Tameside Mafia

PS if you can translate this, please put the interesting bits in the comments box

Sylvain ATTAL

James Purnell, studied in

France

till he was 14

Purnell nods when presenter opens with “Spectator suggests you are the man who can save Labour from catastrophe”

Purnell

You need to ignore both flattering and critical comment from the press.  If you pay too much attention you go crazy.

Attal

You’re around the same age as Blair was when he was elected leader.

Purnell

I’m avoiding your question!  Gordon Brown is the right person to lead the Labour party and to be Prime Minister.  The Spectator is getting a bit ahead of itself.

Attal

Obviously you couldn’t say otherwise… Blair and Brown are very different

Purnell

Blair and Brown created New Labour together.  I worked for Tony Blair; there are more similarities than differences between then.  They’re a partnership – the most successful Labour has ever had.  We’d never won twice before.  We transformed the left.  Brown is coming to power after ten years…

Attal

Is Brown a winner? Is it time for a new generation?

Purnell

No.  The economy is the thing.  Blair never had a worldwide economic crisis to deal with.  How do we respond to what people are telling us? 

Attal

It’s not just external conditions – it’s doubts about Brown himself.

Purnell

With every decision you make in a long time in power, there are people who disagree with that decision.  There are two advantages to being in power – you can say look what we’ve achieved (in the

UK

that’s economic and social success) and you can say look what we’re going to do.  Labour has the right values for the future.

Attal

Blair became unpopular over

Iraq

.  Isn’t that affecting Brown too?

Purnell

Yes it’s important but domestic politics is the most relevant.  The last election turned on crime, public services, the economy; we won a majority of 60-odd which isn’t bad!  No government is ever perfect or problem-free.  Up till now we’ve succeeded in convincing people our values are the right ones and we need to continue to do so.

Attal

Why no general election?  Was it a lack of confidence?

Purnell

There’s no need to call one in our system.  For example, in

France

, it would be very surprising if a new leader called an election before the end of the term of the government.

Attal

It’s a transition then…  JAMES Cameron, David Miliband – how are such young politicians given so much responsibility in the

UK

?

Purnell

We go directly into national politics. You can become an MP as the first thing you do in politics.  Whereas in

France

I get the impression there’s more of a stepping stone process, it takes more time.

Attal

Are

UK

politicians too young?

Purnell

The criticism is often that they’re too professionalised.  I don’t think they’re too young – there’s a mixture of young and sage [wiser – also implies older].

Attal

France

’s pensions strikes – did you discuss them with your French counterpart?

Purnell

We discussed how

France

and the

UK

can work together.  The Franco-German relationship is important but

Europe

isn’t just about that.  We believe in

Europe

, a strong and effective

Europe

; talking and working together is how to resolve the differences which are always there.

Attal

You’re not in the euro.  Brown is reputed to be sceptical about the euro…

Purnell

There are always some countries that are further ahead.  We’re cooperating on defence, we’re at the heart of what’s happening on global warming. 

France

and the

UK

have more in common than we’d sometimes like to recognise.  We’re both nuclear powers, we’re both on the UN Security Council, we are big industrialised economies, we have a history of colonialism… When we work together,

Europe

works better, and when

Europe

works better that’s better for all of us.

Attal

On pensions – can working longer be described as a progressive idea?

Purnell

Of course.  There’s nothing progressive in avoiding tough choices.  There’s a debate – one option we don’t want is for pensioners to be poor.  So we’re left with only three choices – work longer, save more or pay more [he says jobs but means taxes].  The Independent Commission recommended a bit of all three.  So our system is reforming in that direction.

Attal

So you’d be closer to Sarkozy than to [Francois] Hollande?

Purnell

Our aim is to be progressive.  We want a system that gives more money to pensioners, is fiscally responsible, is equal for men and women and is universal.  There are many advantages to the generous French system.  But in power you have to make tough decisions and that’s what we’re doing.

Attal

What about older workers?

Purnell

There’s a need to change the culture.  Till about ten or fifteen years ago, older people worked less; there was a perception they had less to offer.  Then some companies really took action so that they had a mixture – like there’s a DIY chain that sees that their older employees can give good advice, they stay in one job for longer.  There’s been a change in culture.

Attal

Because pensions are less generous?

Purnell

Yes maybe.  There were some people who simply didn’t have a pension but for most it wasn’t that, it was more that they didn’t want to just stop dead.  So they wanted to slow down, work a bit less but keep working maybe two or three days a week.

Attal

Are we living in a time when economic efficiency must take priority over social justice?  They’re hard to reconcile even if you want to…

Purnell

The two always go together.  Social justice is very important to give people confidence that  globalisation doesn’t make them a victim.  Social changes give people the confidence to take on economic opportunities and make a success of them.  Something we’ve not, as the

UK

government, been too good at explaining is that we’ve made real social progress, in the last ten years.  Our aim has always been to have the economy and social justice go hand in hand.

 

Comments

[Tameside Mafia]

Hey there, could you please credit Tameside Mafia for the original find. Thanks :)