Just to prove that not all Kiwis hate me

Even in a city like Paris, there are barely enough restaurants, cafes and coffee shops to accommodate all the rugby people and all the issues under discussion, in this wonderful World Cup. This morning, bleary-eyed and with laptops gently steaming back in the hotel, our little group was grieving for the magnificent Pumas who at their best may well have had the beating of South Africa. Yet when they put their foot on the pedal, they found only will, not power.

There are various large groups roaming the capital - there are the disgruntled French of course, the Australians looking for a party that has already ended for them, plus sundry rump groups of Welsh and Irish. Perhaps the most striking group are the Kiwis marauding around. They do not seem quite sure whether they should wear their black kit when in communal action, or whether they should shout: "Bleck, bleck," (that means Black, Black in English) at the games.

Some of the other nationalities and some of my colleagues are quick to make fun. These are the people, the theory runs, who were so arrogant about New Zealand's divine right to win this tournament, that they booked from the semi-finals onwards, and therefore when en route to Paris, they passed their own team travelling in the opposite direction.

It is also true that some Kiwis do their reputation no favours. On Saturday, at the England-France match, Murray Mexted was wearing a beret. What a statement! What subtlety! What invention! We have also read dear old David Kirk still unwilling to grasp that New Zealand are at home, and that they were categorically not good enough and that however thunderously inconvenient for him, England are in the final..

I seem to have attracted a few hundred Kiwis along the way, as well. I have been bearded in streets and restaurants, by people demanding to have their say. Apparently, some of them have not agreed wholeheartedly with some of my assertions over the years - that New Zealand forward play became poncy for too long, costing them World Cups (at least they listened to me eventually).

More recently, Kiwis seem to object when I pointed out that their team was nothing like as good as they thought, that the over-commercialisation and bullying surrounding the haka was becoming an insult to rugby, and to the Maori. They also objected to the opinion of both Sean Fitzpatrick and myself, expressed in the Sunday Times on Sunday, that the English and French club leagues now lead the world, and that any self-respecting Kiwi player or coach must come up here to play.

However, I have not joined in the mickey-taking. I have not laughed at any Kiwis in Paris, just laughed with them. As usual, here or at home, after the initial period of roaring, the New Zealand rugby follower becomes just another decent, honest, rugby man or woman. They are everywhere here, with their wives and families and workmates. They have saved for years, bless them. They are making the best of it, and they seem to be succeeding.

On Sunday, I met Geddes, who took immediate issue with something I had written. We decided to talk over a beer and by the end, he had demanded that next June, when England tour New Zealand, we will meet on his boat. "There will be a few blokes and some beers. They all hate you," he said. It doesn't sound the greatest. But I will be there.

This morning, I met another New Zealander, a friend called Allan, from the farming hinterland of Canterbury. I am almost afraid to say that it is nearly 24 years since I first went to New Zealand. On the first day of that trip, jet-lagged and diffident, I was accosted in a grim bar at Lancaster Park, by a rasping, rude farmer with a dirty peeked cap. I have told the story several times. "Oi. Get this piss down you!" he said. He gave me a pitcher of warm, weak, weary beer. Rude so-a-so.

I didn't pour it over him. I drank it. It was his Kiwi welcome. I met him every time I went to New Zealand after that, even when the tour went nowhere near where he lived. We never agreed on anything in rugby. He loathed it when I once named him in the paper, although it was only his Christian name. He never ate the gigantic lamb dinners his wife made for us because he was always took busy talking.

Not so long ago, he died. When I was with the 2005 Lions, I went to see his wife and Allan, his son. The old cap was still hanging about. "He could be a rough old so-and-so, sometimes," Allan said. "What do you mean, sometimes?" I said.

Allan is in Paris this week. He missed the All Blacks. They were knocked out the day before he landed, with his savings spent. He misses his father almost as much. We disagreed about various aspects of New Zealand rugby, shared our drinks and recalled our hundred best/worst memories of his grumpy, decent, endearing old dad.

As he left, and after our arrangement was concluded to meet again in some dire old drinking shed in Christchurch next year, he remembered something that he had forgotten to tell me. He called me back. A week before he left for Paris, his first daughter had been born. He told me that he would have traded in the World Cup for his father to have been there.

Comments

[Tom]

Now that story, Stephen Jones, transcends even the great game of rugby. Or maybe it just captures the real essential spirit of the greatest game of all.
For all those commentators below who miss the point of this story, from a real writer, shame on you.
Great article.
It would be good to share a beer with you and talk rugby and writing one day. I'll be in Paris at the week-end - let me know!

[Southern Dave]

Arrogance #1

It is not possible from NZ to get flights, accommodation and tickets to a semi or final unless they are booked a year ahead.

Those who do this have taken a large risk, sometimes with their life savings, knowing that they may not see the ABs, then get continually abused by the likes of Jones and the English for being so arrogant. A little less abuse and a little less ignorance about these basic rugby specatotr matters would be helpful from Jones et al.

Arrogance #2

Apparently the AB have also been supremely arrogant. Is this real, or a beat up. They were massively overhyped by the English media to the point where a bet on the All Blacks with an English bookmaker would give you a 500% better return than with the NZ bookies.

When you want to sound nice you say you haven't been taking the mickey out of kiwis, just days after you say you found their dissapointment "hilariously rewarding"

Just days after you claim England were so pathertic it was their worst lost in living memory, you claim to have predicted that England would be much stronger than the ABs.

It is no coincidece that out of all the international sports journalists in the world, there is just one who is now portrayed as a spitting image puppet famous for his pathalogical hatred of anything from New Zealand

[Richie Garnett]

I wonder if Stephen Jones has seen these two pieces of jounalism -
Spiros Zavos 'Rugby Heaven' via Sydney Morning Herald
http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/a-boks-win-is-a-win-for-lovers-of-the-game/2007/10/15/1192300683876.html
Includes the marvellous observation in the last paragraph (page 2)-
"I'm hoping that history isn't made. Reason? To shut up the obnoxious British journalist
Stephen Jones and his Basil Fawlty-type rantings about how the Wallabies are con
artists and how the slow-plod and endless kicking of the British club game is superior
to the athleticism, excitement and pace of the Super 14 style. "
1. How then does the supposedly inferior British (sic) club game attract the regular large crowds
(and sponsorship) it does in the Guinness Premiership ? Compare with attendances and
anaemic atmosphere at most S14 games.
2. For someone who seems to push S14 (and, presumably central contracts) as the ideal model
is Mr Zavos aware that 75,000 have attended a domestic match in the French Championship ?
3. (Heineken) European Cup v. S14 - no comparison, further comment not needed.
Interestingly included in Spiros Zavos'profile is "...has written books on....fiction and rugby.."

Alex Wylie New Zealand Herald
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/story.cfm?c_id=1501233&objectid=10470183
".....The value of experience in our rugby cannot be under-stated.
While none of our top players nowadays ever plays club rugby, in the days before
professionalism the link between All Blacks and club rugby was strong."

Whilst acknowledging that the England team benefit from fielding experienced
players he can't bring himself to admit that the France/England club systems
deliver exactly what (all?) the centrally contracted ones fail to do - allow
elite international to turn out regularly for their clubs.

[Arous Edhacks]

I have some respect for Laportes comments by simple fact that he/they beat us, both on and off the field,
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=1501224&objectid=10470157

I have to ask why this experts opinion of the AB's is so different to that of the English press?
unlike your lot at least they have beaten us!

[Fraser, Cambridge New Zealand]

All this Pom bashing from Kiwis here, there and everywhere - Isn't Stephen Jones Welsh, or is it like when the Lions came over here to NZ and they weren't the British Lions, to most Kiwis, they were the Poms?

[Gaz (Dubai)]

Stephen

I fit into the category of not agreeing with everything you say (hate's a bit strong Mr Jones) but I really enjoyed reading this blog. I went to the semi final between France & England and cheered for England (even though I hadn't intended too). I'll be at the final next weekend and will probably be doing the same.

As a NZ supporter I know we suffer from over confidence but that is partly the fault of the rugby media in NZ and the rest of the world who talk the AB's up prior to every world cup. I love the game so I'm looking forward to watching an intense World Cup final even if the AB's won't be there.

[DJE]

I think Stephen Jones makes the odd good point about NZ rugby despite being horribly deluded about the Pacific Island issue. Its hard to point the finger too much because NZ fans are represented in the media by boofhead loud mouths like Murray Mexted et al. It is even more upsetting when truly intelligent, well-respected men like David Kirk can't be more balanced in their assessment.

What is also apparent is that a couple of the great comments on this blog seem to hark back to the days of tours, where teams could vist NZ and see the many different faces of the game, the way it infects all parts of the country. Tours bring out all the great human qualities associated with rugby (unless Alistair Campbell is part of the party), and it would be great to see tours as a priority for world rugby. Everyone is sick of the Tri Nations (all the games are blending into one) but you remember the day your local province gave a touring side a hurry up - I bet you wont find a Munster-man who forgets 1978. There must be a place found for tours to keep the game fresh, and to maintain the camaraderie. Maybe then there will be less ill-informed jibes from both sides.

[Kieron McCann]

When you come from a country as old as the UK perhaps its not easy to understand how rapidly a young country like New Zealand can change in 20 years. I would strongly recommend that next time you go to New Zealand you take a little extra time out to visit South Auckland to understand that it is as much a Polynesian city as Apia or Suva, and perhaps visit some real grass roots rugby clubs in Waikato, Gisborne, the Manawatu or King Country. Hey, why not visit a Marae and get to understand a little about Powhiri and Kapa Haka.

Once you have done that you might be a little more qualified to comment on New Zealanders and New Zealand rugby.

[Ash Wesley]

I'm a South African, so I'm not really bothered about your relationship with the Kiwi's or your Southern Hemisphere envy, but I must call into question this notion that the English and French leagues are the best in the world. Quite obviously they are not. Two weeks ago when everyone, including Stephen Jones, were writing off England, all critics pointed to the nature of the Zurich Premiership to show why England had fallen behind the rest of the world. Surely two play-off results can't suddenly justify the rubbish that is served up most weeks in the Premiership? Surely you don't form an opinion based on what has happened in the last two weeks? If you were to pick the 30 best players in the world over the last four years, then at least 25 would come from the Southern Hemisphere - playing their rugby in the Super 14 and Tri-Nations. How can the French and English leagues be the best when 85% of the world's best players play elsewhere? Whenever a Premiership club or 6 nations country is looking for a new coach, they come to the Southern Hemisphere. As for the future of world rugby, South Africa and New Zealand dominate the under-19 and under-21 world championships so unfortunately or Mr. Jones it seems that Southern Hemispere domination is only set to continue.
Like I said at the start, I'm South African, and we don't really bother with all the Southern Hemisphere vs Northern Hemisphere nonsense, but if Stephen Jones is going to offer an opinion, the least he could do is look at the facts and put some thought into it!

[RJA, Nottingham.]

NZer`s need to cut Jonesy a bit of slack here. I don't think his gripe is with NZ or its people. No, I suspect it's with those preening, pompous, cock-sure, self regarding Rugby gurus like Dave Kirk, Murray Mexted (Mr Universe), and Graham Henry, and the bilge they spout forth ("too much talent", "Rugby Gods", "little yellow cup"). And I say who can blame him. It's so satisfying to see people like that eat humble pie. Except they don't. I'll take Fitzpatrick`s or Zinzan`s view point any day. They played the game when it moved into the proffesional era.

It's nothing personal. But it is about people.

[Mitch]

Stephen - I was really surprised by the stats you presented on Sunday around the big rugby nations playing numbers. I had a look at the IRB website and noted that you included Englands Senior Men only but all registered players in NZ - which included girls and junior boys. Result was equal playing numbers between NZ and England rather than the true comparison which is around 27k to NZ and 147k to England. Was this a genuine mistake or was showing how NZ creates such great teams with so few just more than you could bare...? Have you past the point of biased opinion and entered into the territory of bold faced lying...?

[Richard Hammond]

As usual the singular personal pronoun is the most dominant feature of your article.Is there any way you can get David Hands to write half of your pages in the Sunday Times. I'm more interested in "rugby" than "I".

[kjy]

I can cope with most of your analysis of the AB's, some of which is fair.
However you will never have my respect, nor that of most people who know something about NZ, the South Pacific and Immigration as long as you keep repeating the lies and misinformation about NZ poaching Pacific Islanders (who are in fact NZ'ers), as you well know - and if you don't already know this please do not pretend to understand or comment on topics that are obviously beyond you. You risk labelling yourself as an anti-immigration campaigner, or even the more sinister label for people who are anti-immigration.
If you really want to know and understand NZ, perhaps you should stop socialising with Sean Fitzpatrick (good rugby player but still a dumb ex-chippie) and old white NZ farmers. They are not the real, new NZ, as you can see from the make up of our recent rugby teams - which will continue to develop as long as the forces of immigration continue in the South Pacific (which have been working for decades).
Perhaps go and spend some time in South Auckland with a large NZ polynesion family like Michael Jones' or Isaia Toeava's then you may beging to understand.

[Gareth Davies]

Well done Mr Jones, somwehere along the line (if ever the line was found )the grass roots stories that set and are the foundadtion that makes Rugby what it is today have been missed. The saving of pennies for a once in a lifetime trip, the Dad who died before he could make it, the son who would trade it all to make it happen etc. Not for the kiwis the coporate jets and boxes, this is a rugby they do not know.
Go there, you supposed rugby lovers, go to NZ, there is a story in every village that will bring tears to you eyes and a pint in a every pub for listening.

[joseph lusby]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that David Kirk may as well be Captain Kirk for all the use his articles have been this world cup.

[Ben Knowles]

Keep up the great efforts of getting the southern hemisphere blood boiling. It really does come too easily for you!!

http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/a-boks-win-is-a-win-for-lovers-of-the-game/2007/10/15/1192300683876.html

[David]

This column says a lot about Stephen Jones' deeply bizarre relationship with New Zealand rugby. I forget how many times before I have read about the gruff South Island farmer telling him to 'get this piss down you.' As usual New Zealand is portrayed as a land populated by beer swilling farmers, great dire drinking sheds and sheep roaming the main streets. Ho hum.
I am not sure New Zealanders hate you Stephen. They probably just don't recognise the description of the country or its rugby team that you so often trot out.

[John Silich]

Kindred spirits indeed. Sean Fitzpatrick, the great NZ' er, is smart enough not to bite the hand that feeds him.
I look forward to Saturday's final when normal transmission will be resumed for the SH's superiority.
Proving the Premiership is better than the Super 14; tut tut Stephen, you have more chance of sneaking the sun past a rooster.

Kiwi - Aspen

[Arous Edhacks]

C’mon Stephen, even Osama Bin Laden and Charles Manson could find more than one single Kiwi that doesn’t hate them.
But interestingly enough How can you say "Kiwis seem to object when I pointed out that their team was nothing like as good as they thought" when it was you who was picking NZ to win the RWC only 3 weeks ago?

[Chris]

Stephen,
In 2003 I was in NZ throughout the later stages of the world cup, and I would make the following observations about NZ rugby. Firstly it was obvious wherever you were in the country that the most important aspect of their rugby was the All Black brand. It dominated everywhere. The news and media were also totally dominated with All Black news. It was as though nothing else mattered or even existed. The day after their defeat to Australia the whole media circus went into overdrive, and one regional paper in Greymouth devoted 14 pages to their defeat. Englands victory over France was not even mentioned. Watford's Championship win over Norwich did get a mention though! The TV Presenter bit his hand after Englands win and said "See you at the final but please god let it not be England"

However, the NZ public were nothing like as biased, and openly acknowledged Englands achievements in being the tournament favourites. I went to a bar in Auckland the night the NZ team beat SA in the quarters, wearing my England shirt. There was great banter all night but never any malice. The NZ public know their rugby, its a pity their media and those in charge are so blinkered.