Why homeschooling might not be such a great idea

As James Bartholomew points out in today's Times, home schooling is becoming ever popular. On School Gate we have already received a great number of emails and comments about the joys of teaching your children yourselves. Proponents point out that it allows you to follow your own curriculum, help with specific needs, and follow particular interests. Of course it also appeals as it gives you the opportunity to spend more precious time with your child.

There are a huge number of blogs on this very subject, including Carlotta's and Homeschool CPA. Many offer tips and advice to help you start homeschooling your own child.

But despite the very strong feelings on this subject, we thought it might be wise to flag up some of the disadvantages of homeschooling your child - for them and for you.

1) Social issues
Most people point out that your child might lose out socially by staying at home. Those in favour of homeschooling say there is little evidence of this, and there are now many ways for homeschooled children to meet, and so mix, with each other. However, one of the benefits of a school environment is that children mix with such a wide variety of children, of different ages. It's difficult to see how this can happen if they are homeschooled.

2) A child's ability to get used to being taught, and to listen, to a variety of other adults
These include those adults they don't get on with. Surely this helps with social skills.

3) Demands on your time
This is probably not a disadvantage for your child, but it may well be for you. Home education means making a huge effort. It can easily take over your life, affect you emotionally (when will you have time for yourself?) and, of course financially (it's difficult to have a job if you are at home teaching).

4) The cost
All those trips out - to Pompeii and Oplontis, France and China, as James Bartholomew writes - cost money. So do the books, materials and even computer software.

5) The knowledge you may lack.
If you choose to homeschool you need to make sure you can teach a wide variety of subjects, from science to geography.

6) The constant explanations of why you do it
Not the best disadvantage, I grant you, but if you start homeschooling your child, you will soon have to learn to develop a thick skin.

7) Your reasons for continuing if your children don't want to
What happens if they say they want to go to school? You have to know whom you are doing this for.

8) Your own teaching skills and patience
While it's true that you love your children, teaching them is completely different from simply looking after them. Are you sure you have the right skills and patience to do this?

9) The extra stress and pressure when it comes to your relationship with your child
You are now no longer just your child's parent, but their teacher as well. It may be difficult to get the balance right.

Read School Gate on

Lessons without school - the joys of homeschooling

What do do if your child hates school

I was bullied - now I fear for my child

Comments

[Anna]

I live in British Columbia Canada. I cannot imagine what all the fuss is about. Here in BC there are thousands of home schooled children, and it is a growing trend. Home schooling has always been an element of education in British Columbia. Not only that, but many school districts offer online courses to children whose families choose an at home learning environment. My daughter enrolled with the provincial home school program for a year after she experienced some nasty bullying at a state school. She benefitted tremendously before we found her a place in an Arts School. Many of her musical friends were home schooled all the way to university entrance. Not one of them was socially deprived, socially awkward, out of touch with their peers or any of the other myths that hound this form of education. True, not all children are suited to home schooling, nor are all families and each family must decide if it is the best choice, but here in British Columbia it is a proven success story for thousands of children over many years. And it is a growing trend. Is it a big deal in BC? No. It is an accepted and respected alternative.

[Mari]

I feel that parents who choose homeschooling have do so out of immense love and sacrifice for their children. If we others feel a prick of conscience, it would be very spiteful of us to make damaging comments to justify ourselves.

I personally know a whole range of of people from single parents living in caravans to ex-high flyer career people with good addresses make the decision to dedicate a large section of their life to their children. To these people, the question of why they do it is like why do you feed and clothe your children.

Why do homeschoolers bother so many people who don't make this sacrifice bothered by homeschoolers? Why point out what they think are negative things baout homeschooling when there are obviously being in a school with the smake children in a class day in day out year after year is could also sound shocking and the endless list of antisocial and brutal behaviour children learn in state schools.

I would think it more appropriate to ask, why do others choose to send their children to govenment funded schools to follow a set curriculum. To me it sounds like picking up convenience food at a supermarket.

Why not celebrate the choice of those courageous parents. I think they should be encouraged and commended.

I do support schools. I think they are vital in societies that where parents are illiterate or do not have access to books or information. But I think that if you can read and write, and have public libraries, a healthy society should encourage and support you to nuture and care for your own child.

I further believe that homeschooled children should recive educational benefit. Who questions the right of a child to benefit from state funds going to a state school, or paying a teacher from state funds?

As for now, I am grateful that there are parents who do not count the cost.

[John]

1) In what school playground do kids of different ages mix other than to bully the younger ones.
- Not quite as cut and dry as that...
-I'd say it´s as simple as that.Precisely one of the outstanding points of kids homeschooled is their ability to interact with people of all ages, as they are not in a room five or six hours a day with kids of their same age. At school, they never mix. I never mixed with kids a year below me or above... I don´t know anybody who did..
2) Who remembers anything taught by a teacher they didn't like.
- Learning to deal with those you dislike is a fundamental skill
- Dealing with those you don't like is not the same as having them teaching you what you'll need for the future..
3) Children are a commitment. If you don't want to spend time with them why have them?
- Are you claiming that you only enjoy your child's company if you hmeschool them? Of course you aren't...
- If the kid is at school for 5-6 hours a day + trips back and forth and sleep 8-9 hours.. Guess who gets to enjoy more time with the child..
4) The cost. It's only as expensive as you want it to be. There are loads of free resources out there.
- Which are of a sub-standard quality and require endless internet foraging to find.
- Free software is very often more powerful than proprietary one.Linux is free and most servers run on this, same with Apache and a long etc. Ever heard of "Open Educational Resources", "Free software" and the like? Check them out, you might learn a thing or two about what quality is..
5) With Geography teachers teaching Physics this is as relevant at School as with Home Education.
- Fine
- Not fine at all. It´s shameful that this happens to the educational system we all pay for. Plus, if parents don't know about music, they can take their kid to music lessons somewhere else.. being homeschooled doesn't mean being a tree in the house, but having your curriculum decided at home and mainly taught by your parents or tutors.
6) The one I do agree with ! You do get some fully looks ! But usually a two minute conversation with my 11yr old son puts it into perspective for them.
- I wouldn't worry too much about what people say if my kid is getting a better education and growing up happier.
7) It should always be about the children. If they want to go to school they should.
- Wouldn't a parent with the intent of homeschooling 'unintentionally' influence that decision?
- Wouldn't a parent with the intent of sending them to school "intentionally" influence their decision too?
8) & 9) Only you can answer this one. If you're a parent who can't wait for the school holidays to end to get the kids out of the house then you probably wouldn't be reading this article in the first place.
- Slightly elitist and dare I say, pompous
- If you´re a parent who can't wait for the school holidays to end to get the kids out of the house, then you probably shouldn't have kids.

[Jessie]

Your children don't go to school because they don't like it, so if they don't like having a job I assume they will live by mummy's word and go on benefits instead.

[Archibald]

1) In what school playground do kids of different ages mix other than to bully the younger ones.
- Not quite as cut and dry as that...
2) Who remembers anything taught by a teacher they didn't like.
- Learning to deal with those you dislike is a fundamental skill
3) Children are a commitment. If you don't want to spend time with them why have them?
- Are you claiming that you only enjoy your child's company if you hmeschool them? Of course you aren't...
4) The cost. It's only as expensive as you want it to be. There are loads of free resources out there.
- Which are of a sub-standard quality and require endless internet foraging to find.
5) With Geography teachers teaching Physics this is as relevant at School as with Home Education.
- Fine
6) The one I do agree with ! You do get some fully looks ! But usually a two minute conversation with my 11yr old son puts it into perspective for them.
7) It should always be about the children. If they want to go to school they should.
- Wouldn't a parent with the intent of homeschooling 'unintentionally' influence that decision?
8) & 9) Only you can answer this one. If you're a parent who can't wait for the school holidays to end to get the kids out of the house then you probably wouldn't be reading this article in the first place.
- Slightly elitist and dare I say, pompous

[Phil Gallagher]

1) In what school playground do kids of different ages mix other than to bully the younger ones.
2) Who remembers anything taught by a teacher they didn't like.
3) Children are a commitment. If you don't want to spend time with them why have them?
4) The cost. It's only as expensive as you want it to be. There are loads of free resources out there.
5) With Geography teachers teaching Physics this is as relevant at School as with Home Education.
6) The one I do agree with ! You do get some fully looks ! But usually a two minute conversation with my 11yr old son puts it into perspective for them.
7) It should always be about the children. If they want to go to school they should.
8) & 9) Only you can answer this one. If you're a parent who can't wait for the school holidays to end to get the kids out of the house then you probably wouldn't be reading this article in the first place.

My wife and I aren't anti-school but home education works for our family and is a lot of fun. (Most of the time !!)

[lorraine tozer]

I would like my child to go to school but i home educate because of the failure of the government and my local authority to ensure that proper provision and resources cater for special needs children.My son became increasingly stressed threatening to self harm and even kill himself because of the school environment of work pressure, bullying and having to 'fit in'.The local authority are determined that inclusion will reign.Their rhetoric is evangelical all the while children like my son (and i know there are hundreds out there) fall to pieces and parents are left to fight an unfair system.One size does not fit all and shutting special schools or reducing their intakes will create massive problems for the future with a generation of vunerable disengaged children.

[j]

interesting, many thanks. I didnt expect that many HE parents would want to come back, more that I wanted to see what insights the state sector could learn from. because, although I respect the ethical position held by those who say the state is the intrinsically the issue, I also agree that part of a decent society is to provide for state education that is acceptable- and I think we have a lot to do if we are to get there.

It looks as if it's a mix of disipline and curriculum. No big surpise, I suppose.

[Ann]

@meecha

Not at all - as I said I think home schooling is a personal choice and that includes how that choice is funded. I do not see anything immmoral in receiving state benefits or how they are used.

But in your earlier posts you come across more than a little militant about this stating that there is no reason someone would choose school over HE and implying that people who do are doing so because either a)they are ignorant as to what happens in school or b) in some way irresponsible for going out to work rather than committing to home schooling.

Just bringing in another aspect of the decision. Your child's wishes are clearly key but so is the decision about how you will fund the choice. In your case it appears that despite your clear view on the 'government' you are relying on them to facilitate and fund your choice.

[whimsey]

Better homeschooled than bullied.

As for not knowing the subjects well enough to teach them, ever heard of home tutors?? (Most are teachers escaping the nightmare of badly behaved school pupils and the crushing burden of DES bureaucracy).

[meecha]

mm

actually my ten year old goes everywhere on buses on his own. Some of my teacher collegues are really shocked hy this? I guess they really believe that it's highly likely he'll be abducted by peodophiles. This is where "crb" culture has got us.I have had a few parents advise me on the "wisdom" of letting such a tender one loose on the world at large. Can you believe it? I'm sure they think their kids are safer in school! lol

[MM]

That's exactly right, Meecha.
Spot on. YOiu've obviously got me down to a tee.
So, when you talk about socialisation, you actually mean rubber stamped, filtered, prescriptive socialisation that you approve of, rather than the actual socialisation skills that people need when they go into a workplace/party/public transport which has yet to enforce the 'idiot' screening.

[Lucy]

This might already have been mentioned (sorry if so), but it'd be nice if it were easier to do some kind of mix of mainstream school and home. My mother really wanted to be able to take my brother, who is dyslexic and was struggling, out of school for a few hours each week. During that time, he was being taken out of the classroom anyway, but was being sat with other 'dim' kids to colour in pictures while the other children did reading and writing exercises. School was incredibly anti, and she ended up taking him out of school for a year, because it seemed to be (and quite possibly was) the only way that he'd ever be taught to read and write properly.

[meecha]

Ann

So if we were a middle class family on 120k homeschooling would be a good idea but if you are a poor family it's immoral? Is this an argument for home education or is this another discussion?

[Ann]

@meecha

You do no *save* the state £24k. The majority of the costs in education are the overheads e.g. teachers' salaries, property, upkeep of the building etc. These continue to need to be provided regardless of your decision to homeschool.

On £15,000 I assume you pay approx £2,800 annually in income tax and NI. You receive roughly £1,000 in family credit plus housing benefit plus child benefit plus the services your tax pays for (free healthcare etc.)

The decision to homeschool is a personal one but let's be honest you are able to make that choice because the state makes it possible. Other taxpayers are paying for your privilege.

[meecha]

so MM

if I@ve got this right...the purpose of school is not education or socialization. It's about learning how to handle idiots? I've got a better idea re idiots...ie keep away from them!

mumoftwo

you don't believe we home ed on less than 15k? Do you think I am lying? Yes we do get some housing benefit and family credit but it does not remotely add up to the 24k we save the state. If we were not subjected to ridiculous tax levels and inflated property prices.....but that is another discussion.......

[Another homeschool mom again!]

Please don't give me grief for the typo "my response are as follows." I've seen newspapers with editors make worse mistakes. It's not any indictment of homeskooling [sic]. (Homeschoolers' joke.)

[Another homeschool mom]

I am a homeschool mom in the U.S. My response to this article are as follows:

1. My 8th-grader (13 years old) just entered school and is the most confident, self-assured student I have observed in her school. And this is not just her "innate personality."

2. Some validity to this, though you also don't have to deal with being stuck behind a label by these self-same "variety of adults" who don't have time to deal with "discipline problems," i.e., outside-the-box thinkers.

3. Since entering my child in school, I have had almost no time for my other kids, between running around town buying supplies, committee meetings, and sports events.

4. The cost? I suppose you mean besides the nearly $10,000/year I pay in property taxes to support my local school which I don't use? (That is the real-cost equivalent of 10,000 pounds in England, though I know the exchange-rate would be closer to 5,000 pounds.)

5. With online courses, there is very little my kids don't have access to. More choices than they could ever have in the public education system. I don't have to know everything. Plus, there certainly is no dirth of ignorant teachers in the world. (Mind you, I come from a family of teachers and do recognize the ability of most.)

6. Having to explain...? Really, we are grown ups.

7. If I hadn't worked out why I was homeschooling long before my children started to complain, I would have quit ages ago. It's hard work, but I'm doing it for their long-term benefit, not their temporary happiness.

8. Any lack of patience I have is a selfish indulgence, something I will not let irradiate to my children. If I am impatient, I have the maturity to express it not in their presence.

9. Never, ever did I feel more stress regarding discipline in my home than I do regarding the very real stress I feel about their failing educationally or morally while out of my sight at school. While I think this a right responsibility for a 13-year-old, I do not feel so about my 6-year-old. AND, at home, it was never the stress of just "getting things done," but rather the joy of truly learning, whatever that may entail.

[MM]

The main issue I would have with home-schooling is that my children wouldn't have people being mean to them. From what I've read on this thread, home-schooled children have a lot of contact with adults and other children but presumably these people are, for the most part, going to be filtered in some, perhaps unconcious way. I go out of my way not to have certain children round my house, or indeed to go to theirs. But at school they're bundled in with a vast array of nice and not so nice children who will call them nasty names, pull their hair and trip them up - and hoorah for that. Obviously, in a situation of bullying, something needs to be done, but I welcome the opportunity my children have to tell other children to get knotted, or to deal with difficult children, because their future workplaces will be plagued with grown up versions of the little tikes and hopefully by then they'll have learned the skills or developed the thick skin to deal with them.

[mumoftwo]

I do agree it must be tiresome to have to defend your position all the time, too. We chose not to bring our children up bi-lingual (prefer learning language the traditional way rather than having two parents speaking different languages at home). So many people have taken the time and trouble to tell us we are crazy, neglecting children's need for identity, they are like sponges, blah blah. Mind you, none of them actually have bilingual children, for all their exclaiming.
I guess it's the same for home schoolers, you make the decision that suits your family, and everyone judges you for it. I guess that's why it comes over as a bit defensive sometimes, when actually you have nothing to apologize for...

[mumoftwo]

My feeling is that HE is a great option for some parents and children, and I would certainly consider it if my children were unhappy at school, or I felt they were really under-nurtured or under-achieving. However, it wouldn't be my first choice, as a) I feel I have ample time before and after school plus weekends to educate my children in the sense of giving them different experiences and b) I don't want to spend all day at home with them, nor do I get the impression that they would like to stay home all day with me and miss out on the social aspect of school. I do agree you can have well-socialized HE children, however, you must have to go out of your way to do that, and hanging out with other parents talking about home schooling isn't really my thing, I prefer my career separate to the children (they aren't my career).

My only concern is that I have known members of my family home schooled or educated in 'alternative' schools and the lack of emphasis on qualifications can really hold people back later on (not all, of course). One of my relatives ended up going back to do teacher training in her forties once the reality of never having a professional wage, nor a professional pension started to sink in. I don't think she was advantaged creatively or in any other sense by essentially doing what she wanted for her whole school career.

As for living on less than £15,000 a year in London, I
am extremely sceptical that that could be done without any other assistance, or having already obtained a house very cheaply. Rent on a three-bed house can't be less than about £1,000 absolute min in the worst area, which is the entire wage on rent. I don't think any amount of wearing second hand clothes could make that add up, to be honest. So this, you could all live off one wage if you really tried might be true for some, but patently isn't for others, if one entire salary is simply going on rent or mortgage and council tax. And personally, I find living off benefits to HE your children (as suggested by one contributor) a weird value system, unless they really can't be educated within the school system (e.g. profound special needs, school phobic). It's strange to stereotype people who work for money to pay rent, bills, council tax and send their children to school as prioritizing materialism just because they can't all live off one wage!

[KM]

We have a family of homeschoolers in our village. Seven children. Beautifully behaved.

[Louisa HS]

Just for the record, my children came out of school at their own request and both are determined never to return!

They are not fearful of school, they just prefer to learn in an environment in which they are respected.

[Jenny]

'totalitarian institutions in which children are required to surrender their time, learning and even control of their bodily functions to "authority". They are not designed to nurture self-determining, critically astute individuals. They are designed to produce the workforce that industry demands - one that is compliant, conforming to social norms and addicted to consumption.'

I think this is a very sad view. It isn't mine. I have brought up my children to have a positive optimistic outlook and not be fearful of anything they are exposed to outside the home.
They are all very much individuals; they have had wonderful opportunities and made very good friends through school.
If HE suits your children that is all that matters, but I wonder with such dogmatic views whether they would dare ask to try school!
I shall bow out of the thread I would just like to say again that I adored school, lots of children do and it doesn't make them sad little robots!
I would just hope that if your child wanted to try school you would support them and not let your ideologies get in the way.

[meecha]

J asked

"HE parents, what, if anything, could a government do that would restore your confidence in schools? not necessarily for your own children, but in general?"

THe best thing government can do is ......wait for it....NOTHING!!
Government is THE problem. The problem in education is a total monopoly BY govenment. Market forces, not government is the answer. The British public have been seduced by the socialist ideology which states that private = priviledge.
It is actually very easy to do private education once you remove the red tape. That is why HE is THE option for the working class. It is the ONLY way we can privately educate free from state interference. So I repeat;Government is the problem.

[A mother]

And Jenny - how about the other books on Louisa's list? Two John Holt books in a list of, what, 10 or 15 books, the rest of which are much more recent?

Or if you don't like the look of her selection, how about if I re-recommend

Paula Rothermel (this is a direct link to her research papers:

http://www.pjrothermel.com/Research/Researchpaper/abstracts.htm

From the abstract of one of them: She did 316 questionnaires from which she randomly selected 36 to do close analysis of. In those 36. "The four year olds were assessed on each occasion using the ‘Performance Indicators in Primary Schools' (PIPS) measure. The PIPS baseline assessment data indicated that 64% of the children scored over 75%. Nationally, 5.1% of children score over 75%." A slight difference in attainment there, then.

And if you'd prefer a book, then How Children Learn at Home (2nd edition is 2008; I think the first edition was 2007 but might at a pinch be as old as 2006) is now in paperback at less than £12 from Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Children-Learn-at-Home/dp/0826479995

None of this research by people with an axe to grind. It's research by serious academics into how Home Education works and benefits the families who do it.

[A mother]

"a lot of parents probably would love to HE but they are unable to for financial reason"

Not true in the UK. Simply not true. As I wrote upthread, you pays your money and you takes your choice. In a society where it is possible for a single parent on Income Support to HE because that is what is right for that family, then for ANY other family saying "we can't afford it" is invalid. "We choose to live in the nicest possible area, with the material trappings of the consumer lifestyle rather than do anything about the fact that our child cries on the way into school every day". Fine. That's a choice, but don't dress it up as "can't afford it" because it's just not true.

Someone upthread wrote about HEing their family in London on less than £15,000 a year. It is perfectly possible to HE on low income when it is what the child(ren) need(s).

"whereas it is a simple option to choose school because it is free"

No. School is not free. School is extremely extremely expensive. Every child's place in a State school costs either £5,000 or £6,000 a year (I don't remember the figure right now) which is paid for by taxes. Just because we don't each pay a dedicated Schools Levy as part of our taxes doesn't make State Schooling free, any more than the NHS is free or running the Armed Forces or the Criminal Justice system is free.

"... and leaves the parents free for paid employment."
Yes indeed. One of the major benefits of school, to the parents and to the tax-collecting State. How, precisely, does that aspect of school benefit the children? I thought it was supposed to be for their benefit, after all. If we are saying that State schools are free-at-point-of-delivery universal childcare then let's stop waxing lyrical about what marvellous places they are for all children, and start calling a spade a bloody shovel. Schools are convenient and free-at-point-of-delivery childcare, which range in their benefit to each individual child from absolutely splendid to living hell.

"If you read the comments of adults who were HEd as children you will find a split between those who think it was wonderful and those who are deeply resentful.The important thing is to listen to the child."

Please look at the post immediately before your last one. In it I wrote (in other words) that I think the important thing is to listen to the children's preferences about how and where and when they want to be educated. Exactly what you are saying. Noone is disagreeing with you about the importance of following the child's preferences and needs. Once no children are being forced to go to school by parents who don't listen to their preferences, once there are no children in a year in the UK who commit suicide because of the bullying they have encountered in school and see no other way out at all, then shall start talking about whether every single HEed child in the UK would rather be HEed than at school for every single moment of their education? How children are disrespected in society, their preferences ridden rough shod over for adult convenience is indeed a massive problem in our current society, but it is no more a stick to beat home educating families with than it is a stick to beat school-using families with. Please please please be even handed.

[Louisa HS]

I don't agree that things have changed a great deal: A recent study of the operation of the national curriculum over a five year period involving 7000 pupils at all levels of schooling concluded in 2000 that

"the national curriculum, in operation, enforced a limited course restricted to the rote-learning of subject-specific knowledge so that pupils may perform well in written tests of memory. It is my contention that this knowledge-based, assessment driven curriculum demands didactic drill-training to ensure examination success; and that such a pedagogy suppresses the development of a critical disposition, so that the school leaver becomes a passive serf or discontented outlaw, rather than an emancipated citizen or productive worker." (Griffith 2000: xvii)

Whilst I am sure you will argue that the tweaks which have been carried out in the last eight years have now wholly transformed our schools, you are still missing the basic and fundamental problem with schools which is that they are totalitarian institutions in which children are required to surrender their time, learning and even control of their bodily functions to "authority". They are not designed to nurture self-determining, critically astute individuals. They are designed to produce the workforce that industry demands - one that is compliant, conforming to social norms and addicted to consumption.

This govt has failed to reduce truancy despite a whole raft of measures designed to track down escapees and lock them up firmly in our schools. Despite it being so utterly depressing that instead of looking at why kids in droves are skipping school govt simply responds with an ever heavier hand of compulsion, still the number of young people voting with their feet gives me hope that some youngsters are still able to know that schooling doesn't meet their needs and have enough wherewithall to do something about it. It's the ones who sit passively behind desks for 15 or 16 years that I worry about.

[Jenny]

The list of books seems to think that schools are in a time warp and don't move on! Educationalist read the books, they don't want children to be miserable! Miserable children don't learn.
John Holt was required reading for teachers 40 years ago. How Children Fail was a study of American schools in about 1958, not very relevant to British schools 50 year later. (Rather like people in 1950's thinking school practice in 1900's was relevant).
A few positive books by people like Jenny Mosely would give a better picture of life in schools today.
I could list a whole lot of books about poor parenting such as 'Toxic Childhood' by Sue Palmer. Looking on Amazon there are a whole host of books on dysfunctional families and over controlling parents. I don't immediately assume that every family is like that.
There are bad schools but also excellent ones. Home educators also run the whole range from dire to excellent.
It is much too simplistic to say HE good : schools bad.

[Louisa HS]

I've been meaning to do this for a while...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Before-choosing-childcare-or-schools-read-these/lm/RPF3BAFRJZSRD/ref=cm_lm_pdp_title_full

[Louisa HS]

I'm unsure how being negative about schooling is the same as being negative about the world?

I teach my children to reject all forms of tyranny, bullying and "might is right" don't you?

I understand if you don't like to research. Some of these books are very disturbing. A nice pretty classroom and a smiling teacher is much more reassuring after all.

[Jenny]

I would hate to bring my children up with such negative attitudes to the world, Louisa. Rather than read books parents should visit a variety of schools and see the dedicated teachers, caring and stimulating environment and talk to happy children. I could point them in the direction of some very good ones.

[Louisa HS]

I make no apologies for being negative about schools, here's a a small selection of literature that explains why...

Bullycide: Death at Playtime - An Expose of Child Suicide Caused by Bullying by Neil Marr and Tim Field

Schooling as Violence: How Schools Harm Pupils and Societies by Clive Harber

Punished by Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A's, Praise and Other Bribes

Punished by Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A's, Praise and Other Bribes by Alfie Kohn

Homework Myth: Why Our Kids Get Too Much of a Bad Thing by Alfie Kohn

Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling by John Taylor Gatto

How Children Learn (Penguin Education) by John Holt

How Children Fail by John Holt

Multiple Intelligences by Howard Gardner

Compulsory Schooling Disease: How Children Absorb Fascist Values

Compulsory Schooling Disease: How Children Absorb Fascist Values

SCHOOLING AND CAPITALISM by ROGER DALE

The Disappearance of Childhood by Neil Postman

The End of Education by Postman N

There are others but these are off the top of my head. I don't think any parent should consider inflicting school upon their child until they have read these books. Perhaps the government should start putting them in baby bounty packs?

[Jenny]

This is the typical negative attitude. Why should you guess that a teacher said that, it could quite easily be the parents?!

[Louisa HS]

Snuffy you said "I'm not really sure I'd be clever enough..."

I'm guessing it would be your teachers who first told you that, right?

[Jenny]

My children know children who are home educated so I have asked them if they would like it and they were all fairly horrified at the idea.
It isn't a very fair comparison, a lot of parents probably would love to HE but they are unable to for financial reason whereas it is a simple option to choose school because it is free and leaves the parents free for paid employment.
Children are not blank pieces of paper, they are not necessarily going to have the same views as their parents. If you read the comments of adults who were HEd as children you will find a split between those who think it was wonderful and those who are deeply resentful.The important thing is to listen to the child.

[a mother]

"If there is to be no checking on the quality of education provided..."

There is.

Which part of my post at 1.29pm today did you not understand?

"...then you would hope that parents would listen to their child and let them try school if they wish it."

Indeed. Just as one would hope that parents would listen to their child and let them try being educated otherwise than at school if they wish it. Don't demand perfect responsiveness to children's needs from HEers if you aren't prepared to demand the same from families whose children go to school.

"Parents should make sure that they are doing it for their child and not themselves."

Of course. Just as parents should make sure that they are sending their children to school for their children and not for their own convenience. There are thousands more who fall down on my criterion than who fall down on yours.

[Jenny]

If there is to be no checking on the quality of education provided then you would hope that parents would listen to their child and let them try school if they wish it.
I didn't go to anything in the way of nurseries etc before I was school age. I was happily at home with my mother. I was very shy but I couldn't wait to start school and once there I would have gone at weekends if I could! I can vividly remember crying because I was ill and didn't want to miss it.
Parents should make sure that they are doing it for their child and not themselves.

[a mother]

"Home Educators always seem so depressingly negative about school."

Well, Jenny, either they are missing something or their experiences and their children's experiences of school have been less overwhelmingly positive than yours. Or, possibly, they spend their entire lives surrounded by people invested emotionally in the schooling system and are accustomed to taking the positive aspects as read, since they receive unwanted lectures about them from every Tom, Dick and Harry they meet. More important, perhaps, for Tom, Dick and harry to understand why school is not right for a particular family right now than for that family to hear for the 30,000th time about how marvellous the facilities are at St Custard's.

[Ruth]

J - the thing is it HAS to be mended, there's no option. HE is always going to be a minority choice and private schools out of the reach of most, so the state schools have to be fixed. To do this there has to be some major revaluation of what school is for. IMO scraping the National Curriculum and handing the choice of subject materials and how they are taught back to the schools (with parents and children being given a MUCH bigger say) would be step 1.

Jenny - you're falling into the old "what have they got to hide" trap. Would you be happy to have regular visits from a social worker just to make sure you're not abusing your children, and the police might like to pop by to check you're not growing pot in the greenhouse? You've got nothing to hide, right?

Parents are legally responsible for their child's education. Schools get tested and checked because they are in the end answerable to the parents who send their children there. The teachers however caring and professional they might be just don't have the personal investment in the futures and welfare of their charges that parents do.

Many parents who HE do so because their LA has totally failed to provide a suitable education in a safe environment for their children. To have the same LA then turn around and demand to come into their home to pass judgement ... is it really that hard to imagine why some people get a wee bit cross and tell the LA were they can stick it? Personally I don't see why I should let some stranger into my home or waste my time writing a report just so they can tick a box. They work for us, not the other way around.

[a mother]

"However I think that it is essential that checks are made, everyone else involved in education has to have them. Why are parents exempt?"

It's very simple. It's because in the UK parents are still legally responsible for the education of their children. Schools have to have checks made because they are, ultimately, answerable to the tax payer for the service they are providing to parents.

In exactly the same way, people providing school dinners might be expected to account for how those dinners are nutritionally valuable, but no-one sensible is arguing that council inspectors should do weekly inspections of Mrs Miggins's fridge to see whether she is feeding her children a government approved diet.

"The majority of Home Educators are doing a wonderful job but there should be a safety net for the children of parents who are failing."

There is. If LA officials have reason to believe that a reasonable person would say (that's the legal wording) that an education suitable to the age, ability and aptitude of the child is not taking place, there are legal processes they can take which either culminate in the parents providing evidence that such an education is taking place, or which culminates in a court case and a school attendance order being issued. How much more safety net do you want?

"If they are happy with what they are doing they should be happy for anyone to see it in operation and celebrate the success. I can't see the need for secrecy." There speaks a statist. I bet you don't mind the big government databases or the threat of ID cards either. It's the same as the way that we aren't all queuing up to have a glass back to our fridges which is visible to the street. No, we've nothing to hide but, frankly, unless Social Services have reason to think we are malnourishing or otherwise our children then what we have in our fridges is none of anyone's business. There is a right to private life if children are still primarily a part of a family unit rather than primarily the responsibility of the State. Given how well the State does with "looked after" children (isn't that what children in Care are double-speakily called nowadays), I'm guessing most families are not going to be queueing up to have their parental responsibilities taken over by well meaning State officials. Wouldn't you agree?

J: on making state schools better - I think any parent who has spent years fighting for the bullying of their child to stop or for their children's SEN to be adequately cared for is unlikely, once having found an escape route, to feel too enthusiastic about mending the system. Too much effort, too little return. And for the HEers who are philosophically or politically or morally opposed to the institution of State schooling, they are unlikely to be investing energy in trying to fix something they see as fatally broken in some way (right or wrong). And for those for whom HE is just the right thing for their family at this time for whatever reason - well, honestly, I think it is more the responsibility of those who are reaping the benefits of the good bit of the State education system to be trying to mend it rather than the responsbility of those whose needs it isn't meeting for whatever reason. The alternative is a bit like suggesting that the Lib Dems should be working to reform hte Conservative party...

[Jenny]

Home Educators always seem so depressingly negative about school. I loved it. I had a very happy childhood but I would have hated to be at home all day with my two younger brothers.
I have a friend who Home Educates and she has regular visits from the LEA, who are happy with what she is doing and can help with advice for specific problems. I have been shocked to discover that the LEA do not have the right to do this and can be refused.
A child has the right to education by law and this can be at home. However I think that it is essential that checks are made, everyone else involved in education has to have them. Why are parents exempt?
The majority of Home Educators are doing a wonderful job but there should be a safety net for the children of parents who are failing.
If they are happy with what they are doing they should be happy for anyone to see it in operation and celebrate the success. I can't see the need for secrecy.

[j]

I can see that increasingly parents are voting with their feet away from certain state schools. I am not surprised, given the stories they tell.

HE parents, what, if anything, could a government do that would restore your confidence in schools? not necessarily for your own children, but in general?

I no longer use state secondary school for one of my three (though I do for the other two). I do wonder what will happen to the state school system if increasingly some of the parents who are passionate about education no longer want to be part of state schools, as both you and I have done in our different ways. Do you think it can be mended?

[celeste]

Points 1- 10 are mostly furphies. Just a few comments:
Modern schooling plunges children into a large peer group in which they will mostly only be allowed/ expected to interact with children of their age. How is that natural socialization? Worse if the peer group is dominated by ill-mannered, ill-parented, ill socialised children who actively discourage the kind of social skills you would want in a child.
The idea that a parent might not know enough about a subject area is laughable today especially if the comparison is with lower secondary of below. The sad reality in amongst all the obsessive busyness with "process" and "inquiry" and "learning styles" and "outcomes" etc etc is that very little exciting learning about people, the world and the arts actually going on. My child's group, and they always have to do everything in groups, was sent off to "inquire into" "ancient Iraq" by a professional teacher recently. Of course there are actually no resources on this and the children floundered. To assist the children, she might have used the long established name " Ancient Sumer" and the kids would have been fine. Or how about my child's group being assigned Kyrgyzstan for an inquiry recently. You know you are in trouble when Google turns up only about 3 pages with any information. But that is reflective of the off the top of your head style of lesson planning that goes on regularly. Recently, I had a shock when I noticed how drab my child's classroom was. A few A4 pages stuck on the wall with waffle about learning styles or inquiry process. A barrage of words all over the white board. But no art, no color, no student constructed diagrams or explorations of concepts, geographical ideas,no structure, no scaffolding, etc. No dressing up, no drama. And this was a high fee school!
We have encountered some great teachers and approaches in another city.
Homeschooling is increasingly attractive to us at present. With growing resources it is becoming easier than ever. Understanding of just how much time is sucked into classroom management and busy work at school helps keep perspective on how much time is really needed at home.

[meecha]

some facts about our HE family;

Our income is less than 15k.We live in London; need we say more.

Dad works freelance in Primary education.

Mum has 5 kids at home in small 3 bed council estate....no garden but park close by.

Dad, due to the unique nature of the last two years work visited over 25 primary schools last year to support teachers PE.

Also did some music and a little RE.

My opinion? I can not think of a single reason to stop HE in favor of GE (ie Government Education). The argument from the opening post is one that any home eder of even limited experience would find alien.I have sat in more staff rooms this year than anyone on this forum. Guess what? Teachers do not particually care about your kids!! That's because they are normal people working in a government department focused on targets.

Finally here is a little interchange I had last term with a head teacher who I worked with last year.( slightly paraphrased Im sure you will appreciate.

Head: Why did you physically remove Britney (not real name) from todays class?

Me: Britney( yes there really are a few Britneys around) and two others have been constantly disruptive all year. I was 35 mins into the lesson and had delivered no content.

Head: but we could be now having to deal with a complaint from a parent.

Me: An ideal opportunity to address this childs chronic behaviour perhaps?

Head: I really don't need this.

Me: I'm happy to talk to the parent.

Head: wasn't there any other way you could have dealt with this?

Me: You havn't issued guidelines or ever offered to provide "training".

Head: You have to call senior management. They will sort it out.

Me: That means I have to stop the class.

Head: Well...yes.

Me: What about the 25 kids who are actually trying to focus.

Head: (now infuriated throws her arms in the air) OH PLEASE don't give me that.( quite what "that" was I never found out!)

So...Home eders ...keep up the good work. When you've experienced both sides of the rub this is a no brainer. ie Government schools working to a government set agenda (ultimatley to re elect the government) or private education free from party political concerns available to all parents,especially working class ones (see
Paula Rothermel article on how working class kids benefit from HE)

[Home Ed Mum]

We home educate our 3 children - one flexi-schooled for a couple of years and the other two, although they attended nursery, have never been to school. We both take responsibility for their learning - and both work. I work 2 days a week as a teacher in a state comprehensive and love my job. It also gives me an opportunity to see the disadvantages of school. I see many young people who love school and many who hate it. My children have chosen to be at home and know that they can opt back in at any time. The negative stuff about socialisation annoys me because it assumes that home ed kids don't do anything else!! All mine do lots of activities including go camping with scouts/cubs and fit in perfectly well. Peer pressure is there in school, far more than for home ed kids. As for mixing with 'all types of kids', most young people in school keep in with their own crowd, sit with them in class and keep away from groups they don't like.

[j]

I can see how that would work well if both parents were flexible. Its one of the hardest things though, to keep ones own space. I am interested in how it works where the family runs a business, or homeschools.

[A mother]

Ah, well, I don't see the education of children as any more the responsibility of the mother as of the father. While yes, many HE families follow a SAHM model, others follow the SAHD one, others have both parents flexi-working, or working parttime, others have one or both parents self-employed in one way or another. So if a HEing mother is yearning for a return to professional life and doesn't yet have it, then that's something to be worked out within the family dynamic.

"the next six years of exams" What next six years of exams? HE children don't do SATS. Not all of them do GCSEs or even A levels (some instead find out what the professional or academic thing is that they want to do next, and pick up the qualifications necessary to do it). Escape from constant testing of our children is one of the reasons why more and more people are leaving the state sector!

[j]

hello A mother ;-)

I think this is very interesting. I love herding cats, but I do work in a Uni myself...

Home education is a live issue for another set of parents, to which I belong. All of my three take a lot of schooling- one is horribly clever which is not so bad but two are disabled to the point where many of my contemporaries got fed up with the endless struggles with resources, loneliness and bullies and went for homeschooling. (I did it differently, with complex alliances with three different secondary schools and a SENCO trained classroom assistant all to ourselves for the half terms.)

To me it raises a key issue- I see one child still and her mother, who now home educates a 14 year old with minimal speech and very aggressive behaviour, can barely remember life before.

We all want the best for our children and I stayed at home myself fulltime for seven years. But there came a time when I wanted my own career and life back. If I were homeschooling, it would take much longer I suppose? or is there space for part-time work (I know you can run a business from home but that doesnt always provide the company and the change of ideas and perspective).

Is there a stage when you think about the next six years of exams, think back to your previous life as a professional, and think wistfully, "hmmm, much as I love them.."

[A mother]

Hello J :-)

Ah, now I understand the resources question!

Quite agree that families with children in school also do elements of HE. Of course! But, for whatever reasons which are individual to each family, we choose to supplement what happens in every family at home with things not involving the institution of school :-)

As for resources: well, we all have access to libraries, and the internet, and the expertise of people around us. A lot of HEed children, from quite young, become auto-didacts, by which I don't mean that they sit in a bubble, but that their learning is self-directed and they are doing a lot of the resource chasing at the level appropriate for them. For a child learning to read, that might be finding the interesting looking books in a library, charity shop, or on the shelves of a friend's house; for a 16 year old wanting to do A level physics, that might involve getting a syllabus, finding whatever the best-reviewed textbooks are, sourcing a personal tutor or the suitably-expert parent of a friend, signing up for an OU course and leaving out the A level all together, signing up for an FE college course to do the desired A level...

Until very recently I used to sneer rather at the internet as an academic resource, and I can still sneer with the rest of them at the worst bits of Wikipedia, but SO much high quality material is increasingly available on the internet. Medieval manuscripts in full facsimile, the latest academic literature in preview from Googlebooks so you can work out what might be worth reading before actually buying/getting it from a library, all sorts of scientific demonstrations in video form, lectures by people like Richard Feynman (hey, this took me 2 seconds to find! http://vega.org.uk/video/subseries/8 )... that was the tiniest little brainstorm.

The difficulty in pinning this down is that you'll find Home Educators at every point on the spectrum, from people with a Christian Curriculum complete with workbooks to people who describe themselves as radical unschoolers or autonomous home educators, who follow the interests of their children. So you might manage to pin down my attitude towards resources, and 5 minutes later another person will come along and say "er no, that's not how we do/did it at all". Herding cats is the usual term.

[j]

Well He mum you are a few posts behind the curve, we'd agreed to move on from the attack mode.

Your point about individuality is right of course- " I am glad that my children won't be pressured to wear the 'in' fashions, eat rubbish foods, have to try the latest diets. They will be able to make choices based on their individuality, not on multi million pound advertising campaigns - but hey, that's another issue for another day!" but I would point out that we school users do that as well. School is not at all like that, if you dont want it to be, and your family values pervade the way you bring up your children. School families arent slavishly following the herd either, nor do they miss out on adult interactions, family trips, etc. We do all of this as well, just not every day.

What I have found is that education changes so much over their lives- from the junior school curriculum that some of you are tackling, through to A levels. We all educate in the round, including at home, just that some families dont use schools at all.

[HE mum of 3]

Goodness me.
So many people entrenched in the 'system'.
I would recommend the books by John Taylor Gatto to get some idea of the REAL reasons schools were developed.

I chose to have my children and I want to be with them and enjoy them, not send them off to some babysitting service for 6 hours a day. I sent my first child off to school at 4 years old as I was told by the authorities that I had no other choice.

4 years old! He was still a baby!
He had to contend with all the usual hassles of school [(sat on by two boys who smashed his head against the floor one wet playtime (where were the teachers?), put down by his class teacher when at 5 years old he could not write fast enough for her liking (he now believes he CANNOT write), given one to two hours of homework per night (what did they do for the six hours at school?) plus many other issues].
I have educated at home now for the last 3 years. Losing my wage was a decision we took for the benefit of our family. Many other people could home educate, but they need to look beyond the luxury items - plasma tv's, the Wii's etc etc. Get back to basics.
As for what to teach. The world is your oyster. Why should you follow a school style curriculum? Follow your child's interests, build on them. Sure it's hard work, but why do you have children? To send them to day care, then school for someone else to look after?
We seem to forget that we teach our children to walk, talk and eat. We are their teachers from day one. Home education simply expands on that.
It is hugely beneficial to you and your children. My children love being at home.

Just because you are at school, it doesn't necessarily mean you are learning. I passed all my GSCE's and A levels, but I never learnt anything, I merely remembered my revision from the previous days. Children learn from hands on experience, not writing page after page; from discussions around the dinner table, not forced projects on obscure subjects.
Where in school are children prepared for life? Which subject teaches tax education, banking, insurance requirements, how to run a business etc, etc? None. They teach how to be compliant and get a job working for somebody. It helps them if you don't understand the tax system.
My nine year old paper trades shares. He does not have to be compliant, he can choose his course in life.

Universities are increasingly accepting homeschooled students as they see the positive benefits of home education.

Socialisation is always brought up by people who have no idea about home educating. It is not generally an issue unless perhaps you are in outback Australia.
My children socialise with people everyday, they feel comfortable chatting to people of all ages and walks of life. They are never phased by the age of other people. School has a way of pigeon holing children so they only socialise with others of the same age through the limiting class/age setup. I know because I went to school!

There will always be a debate raging, but I am glad that I can think outside the square. I am glad that my children won't be pressured to wear the 'in' fashions, eat rubbish foods, have to try the latest diets. They will be able to make choices based on their individuality, not on multi million pound advertising campaigns - but hey, that's another issue for another day!

[j]

hello Mother (as it were)

I did mean - well not workbooks exactly. my OH is a University professor and he says that the biggest problem with new colleagues is they think that if they get their very clever student in a room and tell them all about it, they are teaching. Which of course is what I would do as I am also clueless. he OTOH understands how to make someone learn for themselves by knowing when to hold back and when not. So although looking at the natural world etc is a good resource, I would need to be shown how to get the best from it.

I think we all hoe educate in some sense- certainly I also show my three the wonders of nature, go to museums with them, (and indeed they are cooking right now, shudder). But I dont try to deliver A level physics and maths, so I delegate some of the curriculum. I'm sure homeeducating parents do as well. But just as it is unhelpful for us to assume that all home-educators are selfindulgent, so it is also not sensible to assume that school users dont also do much of the same stuff, at weekends and holidays. We may have more in common than you think, on that one.

[Free at last]

It took me ages to rid myself of the religious indoctrination and other rigid frames of reference imposed on me during home schooling. We had many educational-type outings, but always imposed on us. There was just lack of space to be just me, away from parents, with my own special child life and friendships.
I do not see my parents now. I am trying to get my own life together. Maybe when I'm older I'll be able to forgive this peculiar child cruelty and imprisonment.

[Danielle]

I don't feel that a child has to have one type of education exclusively. I enjoyed going to school until I had to switch to one for a single year before moving on to North American high school. In retrospect, my parents and I both agree it would have been better for me to home school that year. A year of reading books would have been far more beneficial then running that horrible educational rat race and dealing with kids who had spent 8 years together by that point. Live and learn. I got over the experience but it's not one I would ever ask a child of mine to go through.

[A mother]

J:

Some Home Educated teens go to university. Some go straight into work. Pretty much like anyone else, really, with the difference (IMO) that an autonomously HEed young adult is much more likely to be at university because they genuinely want to be rather than because that it the next nice-middle-class step. Remember that university is completely optional, and the people studying there are treated as independent adults. It's not an extension of schooling, it's something quite different.

"On support I meant are the resources really good or do they get a bit irritating?"

Erm... I'm still not getting this. Do you mean workbooks and things? THe resources many of us use are perhaps best summarised by this picture: http://sandradodd.com/scan/grover03.jpg

"I know we can all take exams but I suppose I meant taking the temperature of things as you go along." Exams and tests are needed in schools because otherwise the teachers just can't keep track of the progress of the 30 children in their care. Also because the teachers are ultimately accountable not only to OFSTED and Whitehall, but also to the tax payer and, most importantly, to the parents, whose legal responsibility the education of their children remains, even if they choose to exercise that responsibility by sending their children to State schools. Tests are so the teacher can prove to others what the children know. Parents don't need to do this with their own children as they are themselves exercising their legal obligation to educate their children!

[A mother]

(By the way, Carlotta has posted a detailed critique of this blog post at Dare to Know:

http://daretoknowblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/ive-said-it-before-but-ill-say-it-again.html )

[A mother]

"I think that it benefits some children but others do far better at school." You would need to read the educational research on the issue to be sure. Paula Rothermel at Durham University is the first port of call. "How Children Learn at Home" by Alan Thomas and Harriet Pattison (Continuum, £16.99) is the most recent book-length study.

"They don't seem to accept that some children love it!" Who is this "they"? Noone in this discussion as far as I can see.

"I think that it is fine if the child has chosen it (an informed choice)but not if the parent is imposing it." I agree entirely. I also think that a school-based education is fine if the child has chosen it (an informed choice) but not if the parent is imposing it. Unfortunately, I think that many more Home Educating families are going to meet your criteria than schooling families are going to meet mine. There is a woeful double standard in operation.

"Some parents are over controlling and HE means that the child never escapes them, and never gets to hear opposing views." True. So what do you want? Those children to be made wards of the State? All children to be forced into State-funded daily school in order to minimise the potentially ideologically dangerous effects of the family? That is, to cite the obvious example, precisely what happened in 1930s Germany (and the left-over legislation from that is the reason why Home Education remains illegal and punishable by fines or imprisonment in Germany). Hard cases make bad laws.

[Jenny]

I think that it benefits some children but others do far better at school.
Parents who HE have very negative and often outdated views on schools. They don't seem to accept that some children love it!
I loved school as a child, in particular I loved my primary school and I am so relieved that I had the opportunity to attend. I like to learn with a teacher and other students, I wouldn't have wanted a parent to 'felicitate' my learning.
I was a very shy child and it wouldn't have done me any good to be in such a protected environment.
I think that it is fine if the child has chosen it (an informed choice)but not if the parent is imposing it.
Some parents are over controlling and HE means that the child never escapes them, and never gets to hear opposing views.

[Snuffy]

There is no way I would home-school. Absolute nightmare. And I'm not really sure I'd be clever enough...

[j]

Olive and a mother , thank you.

On Unis I meant do families vote with their feet away from campus based Unis- even if the education is not compulsory it is still a choice as to what kind of post 18 education you choose to do. I think many of the concerns parents have expressed about schools could equally be expressed about uni. I think that in the US there are campuses that specialise in home educated students, though in that case it is complicated by a creationist Uni curriculum which changes the dynamics a bit.

On support I meant are the resources really good or do they get a bit irritating? I know we can all take exams but I suppose I meant taking the temperature of things as you go along.

Olive that is interesting. I expect school would also have been flawed, but you make the point that one size doesnt fit all, and of course home education can often be a whole family decision, when perhaps it suits the elder children more than the younger (in some cases, such as here, not always).

I think some of the hostility people get comes from the old experience of home education, where people only came across fairly extreme families determined to avoid peer challenge to their rather way-out family faith. I can see that with the changes in state education, all kinds of families are joining in now, just as all kinds of families now use fee paying schools, and that group has also changed beyond all recognition from thirty years ago.

[diana]

The disadvantage I'd add to the list is the issue of some parents having unreasonable expectations for their homeschooled child, who then doesn't have school as a refuge/ safety net. I also have worries about parents with extreme beliefs presenting them as normal to their child who doesn't have access to peers for comparison.

[a mother]

"how do you manage to be sure that you have covered everything to objective standards?"

Well, like anyone else. IF you're wanting an objective measure, you take an objective test. GCSEs, A'levels, diploma, OU courses...

"I can guess it would be hard for you to assess your own planning of lessons as teachers if so much is based on a new curriculum."
Some people use bought in curriculums, some people make up their own curriculums, some people even follow the national curriculum, I believe (though that has to be rare!). Others don't buy into the curriculum mentality at all (the best known place to read about "unschooling" is probably http://sandradodd.com/unschooling )

"How good is the guidance that you have access to?" Sorry, don't understand that question. Do you mean State guidance? LAs range from supportive to intimidating and ultra vires, if that's what you are referring to.

"Do you feel that Unis have the same weaknesses as schools?"

I expect opinions differ. Personally, I think no, because people do at least have the choice of whether to be at university or not and, if they are hating it so much they are failing their exams, the universities don't keep making them attend - quite the converse!

"do people home educate to degree level?". Anyone who is doing an OU course is home educating, regardless of whether they live with their mum or not :-) The State doesn't insist (yet) on people being in education beyond school age, so there wouldn't really be any such thing as officially home educating at degree level. After all, once a person is beyond compulsory school age, whatever education they are undertaking is (nominally at least) their own choice at their own initiative.

[Olive]

I was homeschooled from 6 onwards with my 2 sisters and looking back I can say it had both positives and negatives. I think I can honestly say it gave me a strong sense of individuality and independence, both in learning and everyday life. I was happy talking to adults from a very early age, but was less happy talking to other children. This was in part because we had no access to other children (we lived on a remote farm), but also because amongst 'normal' children we stood out as damn strange. We had no comparable tales of school to talk about, for example, and no interest in trendy toys, music or clothes. This might have been because of our home schooling but perhaps has more to do with our isolation. Our formal education was very limited - we learned to read and write (and to love reading and writing) but everything else we learned ourselves from an inexhaustible supply of books and field trips. I personally view the experience as flawed but ultimately excellent, and the same feeling is expressed by my twin. My younger sister I think had bigger problems - she is an emotionally withdrawn character and has trouble with confidence amongst her peers. My parents put a lot of pressure on us to be clever (probably to overcompensate) but this was quite damaging. We had no accurate view of our own intelligence, having no peers to compare ourselves with. We had no idea if we were better, equal or worse, and we tended to assume the latter. This is probably why my younger sister struggled - her peers (myself and my twin) were 4 years older. If I had the chance to relive my early life, I'd definitely stick with the home schooling, but I'd urge any parents considering the idea to make sure their children have a good, balanced view of themselves. This was the missing link in our otherwise ideal experience.

[j]

Homeeducators, lets get away from criticising and learn from you instead. I think it sounds fascinating.

how do you manage to be sure that you have covered everything to objective standards? I can guess it would be hard for you to assess your own planning of lessons as teachers if so much is based on a new curriculum. How good is the guidance that you have access to?

In some ways I wonder if homeeducating families are more self aware than families who use schools but never assess their own family activities.

I am looking now at Unis and I see a hige variety between the good ones, and those where very little is provided in teaching or pastoral support. Do you feel that Unis have the same weaknesses as schools? do people home educate to degree level?

[Michelle Stuart]

"What do you mean by injured anyway? Life threatening injury? of course not."

A friend's 9 year old was killed in an accident in the school playground at break time. Is this serious enough for you, Henry?

[Home educating mum of three and a bump]

Learning in the real world is not to be sniffed at.

Going for a walk on the beach as opposed to simply sunbathing, eating ice-creams and making sandcastles etc... can actually be very educational.
The kids can learn about the tides, birds and marine life can be observed.... there is all sorts to investigate and going when the beach is desolated and out of tourist seasons is really useful. Why is that less educational than simply reading these things in a book in a classroom?

You sound like you are jealous and simply can't imagine than children absorb and learn from every moment they are breathing as opposed to only in a formal learning environment. I have dragged the kids to many educational trips which are not exactly thrilling, but this is what you do when you're home educating. Sometimes I really don't feel like going to a medieval re-enactment or a bug-hunting session at the local nature reserve, sometimes the kids don't feel like it... but we do it anyway because you have to make the most of every opportunity.

When people open their minds to the idea that learning is taking place all the time, everywhere, from every exchange and conversation, every trip out, as much as from friends, tutors, books, documentaries, school -type kits and educational CD-Roms, then you stop thinking in terms of learning and knowledge necessarily having to be spoon-fed by a teacher, or manufactured in a classroom set up.

You have to see it to believe it, because the home ed kids I know are extremely knowledgeable about all sorts of interesting and useful stuff which schools can only touch on, including and spilling over the edges of the usual curriculum stuff. Not to say schooled kids aren't knowledgeable about lots of stuff too, but all the time wasted in assemblies, walking from one lesson to the next, setting up and packing away every hour and so on, is time during which a home-educated child would perhaps be doing something infinitely more educational.

Can close life-long friendships only be cultivated in the school environment? I think not. Friends to share lifes ups and downs, joys, unfairnesses, triumphs and set-backs with are vital to us all, so why assume this only happens in school?

[K Thomas]

Home Education seems very wierd, even wrong, until you research it. Just over a year ago I began that research after good friends announced their decision to take their children out of school.

I was horrified with what they were doing and quickly began to read as much as I could in order to persuade them to return to the school system immediately. I thought they were completely insane.

I had all the same objections as you have in your article and I eagerly set about gathering evidence to prove my case. It turns out I was wrong though. All the evidence supported their decision, blew holes in my theories and left me wondering for the first time if I was right to leave my children in school.

Education is vitally important to me. I went to state schools and then Oxford University, it was a pattern I hoped my children might follow. However, reading through the books about home education I began to question all my views about what "educated" really means. My values were shifting.

A month later my four year old son had his face cut open with a pair of scissors by another child in Reception. I was told that this was good for my son as it gave him the opportunity to "model good socialisation skills to the other boy."

My children left shortly after that, a joint decision by all of us. They were jubiliant, I was slightly worried but reassured myself that they could return to the system if it didn't work out at home.

I asked them a while later when we drove past the school what they felt. I expected to hear they missed it, or that sometimes they wished they were there. I doubted my own ability to produce something as "wonderful" as school, but the answer I received was surprising. "Mummy I feel relief. I am so glad you rescued me."

I never saw it as rescue. This comment was from my eldest, who had never been bullied, was popular and in the top sets for her subjects. I thought she had been happy at school, but she felt relief and as if she had been rescued.

It was confirmation for me that I had, as all the evidence had shown, really put the needs and happiness of my children first.

They have thrived at home in the past year. Academically and socially they have found their lives enriched, and I have been surprised at their progress (far quicker than progress at school). They mix with a wider set of friends than was ever possible in the tight catchment area of the local school. They are now comfortable talking to people of all ages and their confidence has soared.

I still have skeptical days, moments of self doubt. I walk past the rows of uniform in shops and feel a pang of fear at being so different, an irrational need to stand at a school gate again, but I am realising more and more that this is my need not theirs. I might need school as a parent for all sorts of reasons, but children really do not. On the contrary they seem to do so much better without.

[Dectora]

Home educating mum of three: of course you defend your own position, but much of this 'out and about' stuff is fun for you disguised as education. One home educator insisted that when she took her children for a walk on the beach (very nice) she was teaching them marine biology. (to 'A' level, no doubt.)
Also home educators cut their children off from the important friendship made at school (I met my closest friend at Primary School)

[Malcolm McLean]

If you can teach your children to read and write fluently and to master the four rules of arithmetic, you've achieved something that primary schools now find difficult.

[Home educating mum of three and a bump]

The name Home Education is something of a mis-nomer, as many of us who home-educate are actually out and about a lot.

Whilst school learning happens mostly within school grounds, home is simply a base or a leap-pad if you like, for learning in the wider community.

For example it is not necessary to restrict mathematics to textbooks when the children spend their life doing real life maths: shopping, budgeting, measuring, weighing, estimating, planning, saving.... even building a skateboard ramp has a mathematical element in the sense that a child will be busily experimenting with angles, measuring wood etc etc... The school model of learning maths is often very dull and can seem slightly removed from real life. If so many kids are leaving school every year with such a poor knowledge of maths, maybe the textbook way isn't as effective as it could be...

One fantastic home educating family we know are smallholders. The kids are experts on every animal in their smallholding, having had hands-on experience of the workings of running it. They're very savvy with the costs of this and that, how much return you get from such and such an animal, how to budget a months feed for this pig or that cow, how many square metres you need to allow for such and such an animal etc...etc...

The children have an impressive vegetable patch and recently turned up with their own produce complete with their own price list to one of our get-togethers.

The children are bright and friendly, can cook all sorts of cakes, breads, biscuits, and goodies, and are very self-reliant, enthusiastic learners. They have a healthy glow from being outdoors a lot of the time, and they have many friends in the community.

Their parents are half-way through a self-build, which the children have seen being built from day 1.

This family are not rich in monetary terms but in terms of happiness, they may as well be millionaires. The satisfaction the kids derive from being free to learn
in a meaningful context is inspiring. We regularly swap books, computer games, all sorts of resources with each other, and so it is not necessary for each family to have duplicate resources. Sometimes I swap one or two of my kids for one of two of theirs for the day, and I am grateful for the opportunities it gives both ways.

This goes for all the home educating families we know - we share skills and resources, and keep each other informed of workshops to attend, or teachers we have met who can do a presentation for our group. We get school rates when we attend museums, talks, educationally themed days, etc... etc... so financially it doesn't cost as much as people might think. We have fun meeting up all over the place in different settings and there are sometimes 30-40 people at our get-togethers. It is a vibrant and mixed group who home educate. Yes-for some it is financially very hard, but we are a creative lot, and many of us are able to make a silk purse from a sow's ear!!!!

Informal learning shouldn't be underestimated, as it can be even more potent than prescribed chunks fed to a child when they might not be open to it. If you enjoy something and you want to learn about it, think how much more easily that knowledge comes to you - the same goes for home education, where learning does not have to leave a bitter taste in your mouth.

I have jumped about rather - from one idea to another, but just wanted to say a little more about the positives of home education.

[Lorraine]

I home educate, it's what I want but it was my children's choice. My husband is self-employed doing work he enjoys. We have one income and still live in our home of 25 years. Our children are intelligent, imaginative, spontaneous, adventurous and outgoing. They are friendly and confident with both children and adults alike. They are also opinionated, stuborn and at times infuriatingly argumentative. Home Education isn't for everyone. My sister said, 'I really admire what you do but I couldn't do it, I need my own life'. A back handed compliment which implies that although I do a good job my life isn't my own, yet I'm lucky enough to be working for me with my children, which is what I want and have the opportunity to do. Our children are educated in the wider community, visit museums, historical places, attend camps, meetings and workshops and spend time with friends from all walks of life, which is what they thrive on.

[Ruth]

No Henry, what you said isn't TRUE, it's just an opinion and a sadly misinformed one at at.

"Home schooled kids should be set free."

What is this, Newspeak? Free from what? In what way are children sent to school free? Are they free to study what they want, when they want, to wear what they want, to leave if they want to? I think not. I went to school and freedom was just something I dreamed about, while being bored out of my mind.

[Heather]

I guess you went to school? Ilogical? I would say it's Illogical. Bullying is a very serious issue and to be blaze about it very disturbing. Everyone has their own way and learning is individual. School is not. I hope you were bullied, perhaps you still are? Perpetrator? More like.

[Henry Weiss]

Quite a few people have reacted angrily to what I have said with ilogical responses.

Someone pointed out the number of kids who are bullied or injured at school. This is not relevant. of course kids are bullied and injured at school. Did you know also that some people who got on a bus today fell over and bruised their shins. Let's ban busses and make everyone drive their own cars. It's a nonsense argument.

What's more, how many children were hurt at home last year? There are millions and millions of children of school age in this country and so it is to be expected that some will get injured. What do you mean by injured anyway? Life threatening injury? of course not. Probably the normal selection of bangs and bumps with the odd serious injury. Most accidents and injuries occur in the home anyway so keeping kids there is certainly not the safest thing to do.

As for a video on youtube showing some happy home-schooled childen, I could find a video that shows whatever you want it to. It shows nothing. How many million kids do you think there are in this country who could talk happily about their normal social schooling? Answer: a lot!

What I said is true I'm afraid.
Home schooled kids should be set free.

[j]

Very interesting debate.

I suppose I used to assume that some homeschooling is a way to avoid elements of the curriculum that dont fit the family code- such as a way to teach creationism- which in the UK is still seen as a bit worrying, though I know not so much in the US.

I would worry that I couldnt provide everything from my own knowledge and from my friends. I have learnt so much from the various schools my children have been part of, and it has also been part of belonging to my local area. I can see that homeschooling could provide that, if you were part of a homeschooling community.

[Homeschooled Adult]

As a homeschooled adult, I am constantly amazed at how misrepresented our homeschooling experience is by those who have obviously never met a homeschooling family. There are several points in this article that are just false. I have been both to school and homeschooled. My social experiece was far more limited while I attending school than it was while I was homeschooled. At school I was limited to associating with just the adult teachers and several hundred other children MY OWN AGE give or take 1-2 years. I do not consider this to be a "wide variety of children, of different ages." I saw mostly white children from my own locality while I was at school. When I was homeschooled, I associated with ALL ages from infants to adults and every age in between. I had friends of every ethnicity, several different faiths, from different regions and countries. Please tell me again, how I was limited? I learned about things in depth and in ways the school could not afford. I went on field trips, some cost money, but most were FREE because there are so many wholesome people out there who love what they do for a living and are excited to simply share with children who are interested. I was able to pursue my talents; something I couldn't do in school because school budgets and curriculum wouldn't allow for it. I learned HOW to LEARN so I am able to learn from anyone or anything - ESPECIALLY those individuals and things I don't "get on with." I learned RESPECT, something that is sorely lacking in today's schools and society. Just look to the rising delinquency rates for proof of that. I learned to speak to adults and to speak to the very young and to make them both feel welcome. I learned to speak with my peers and developed what have turned out to be life-long friendships. I learned to disagree respectfully with my peers and still remain friends. I learned to look to the elders in my life for advise; NOT just my peers. In school, I was hesitant to be seen speaking with adults lest my "peers" chide me later for being a "teacher's pet." As an eleven year old seeking advise from other eleven year olds - this wasn't the wisest situation - yet that is what happens in schools. I experienced it and was thankful to have been delivered from it. The only parts of this article that are true is that my parents DID spend a LOT of time with me and my siblings. My mother sacrificed her professional career to stay home with us and teach us. My father DID work two jobs to make ends meet. Admittedly, that was tough. But there are other schooled families whose fathers and mothers do the same. So our finances were not the result of our homeschooling. Today, all of us are professionals and my parents have told us repeatedly that they have no regrets. They are proud that we are contributing and respected members of society with a bounty of friends and contacts to further our careers and relationships. They did have time for themselves - they made time. That's what couples who love their marriage and their families do. Academically, my parents made sure we had the curriculum and tutors (which were usually just other homeschooling parents who knew a subject better) we needed to succeed. I have no academic deficits and my medical degree proves it. Admittedly, homeschooling isn't for everyone. But no one should be discouraged from trying it especially with schools and society in the shape it is currently in. I do have one regret with homeschooling, though, I regret that these horrible myths still exist about homeschooling. I regret that so many people are so reliant upon the "establishment" that they are unable to positively consider an alternative to government or establishment-controlled education. That's sad. I pray that anyone remotely considering homeschooling will indeed muster the courage to give it a go. The support is there, the tools are there. Just go for it! The rewards are great - I'm proof!

[Homeschooled Adult]

As a homeschooled adult, I am constantly amazed at how misrepresented our homeschooling experience is by those who have obviously never met a homeschooling family. There are several points in this article that are just false. I have been both to school and homeschooled. My social experiece was far more limited while I attending school than it was while I was homeschooled. At school I was limited to associating with just the adult teachers and several hundred other children MY OWN AGE give or take 1-2 years. I do not consider this to be a "wide variety of children, of different ages." I saw mostly white children from my own locality while I was at school. When I was homeschooled, I associated with ALL ages from infants to adults and every age in between. I had friends of every ethnicity, several different faiths, from different regions and countries. Please tell me again, how I was limited? I learned about things in depth and in ways the school could not afford. I went on field trips, some cost money, but most were FREE because there are so many wholesome people out there who love what they do for a living and are excited to simply share with children who are interested. I was able to pursue my talents; something I couldn't do in school because school budgets and curriculum wouldn't allow for it. I learned HOW to LEARN so I am able to learn from anyone or anything - ESPECIALLY those individuals and things I don't "get on with." I learned RESPECT, something that is sorely lacking in today's schools and society. Just look to the rising delinquency rates for proof of that. I learned to speak to adults and to speak to the very young and to make them both feel welcome. I learned to speak with my peers and developed what have turned out to be life-long friendships. I learned to disagree respectfully with my peers and still remain friends. I learned to look to the elders in my life for advise; NOT just my peers. In school, I was hesitant to be seen speaking with adults lest my "peers" chide me later for being a "teacher's pet." As an eleven year old seeking advise from other eleven year olds - this wasn't the wisest situation - yet that is what happens in schools. I experienced it and was thankful to have been delivered from it. The only parts of this article that are true is that my parents DID spend a LOT of time with me and my siblings. My mother sacrificed her professional career to stay home with us and teach us. My father DID work two jobs to make ends meet. Admittedly, that was tough. But there are other schooled families whose fathers and mothers do the same. So our finances were not the result of our homeschooling. Today, all of us are professionals and my parents have told us repeatedly that they have no regrets. They are proud that we are contributing and respected members of society with a bounty of friends and contacts to further our careers and relationships. They did have time for themselves - they made time. That's what couples who love their marriage and their families do. Academically, my parents made sure we had the curriculum and tutors (which were usually just other homeschooling parents who knew a subject better) we needed to succeed. I have no academic deficits and my medical degree proves it. Admittedly, homeschooling isn't for everyone. But no one should be discouraged from trying it especially with schools and society in the shape it is currently in. I do have one regret with homeschooling, though, I regret that these horrible myths still exist about homeschooling. I regret that so many people are so reliant upon the "establishment" that they are unable to positively consider an alternative to government or establishment-controlled education. That's sad. I pray that anyone remotely considering homeschooling will indeed muster the courage to give it a go. The support is there, the tools are there. Just go for it! The rewards are great - I'm proof!

[Ruth]

Ugg, I can't believe I missed that typo, how embarrassing :-/

[Ruth]

In response to David's suggestion of state funding, thanks but no thanks. Where there is government funding their is red tape and interference. In common with many teachers I am no fan of the National Curriculum and SATs and avoiding both is one of the many reasons we are home educating.

[Merry]

I home educate 4 children ranging from 10 years down to about to be 4 years old. I could certainly expound upon the virtues of HE but I'd also like to address another point in the "article" - the ability to have a job while doing so.

It might be hard to home educate and work but it certainly isn't impossible; I set up and now run two very successful toy and craft websites alongside HE-ing, starting with a months child allowance and a kitchen cupboard 5 years ago; I now provide jobs for other mums, a model of a multi-tasking, business owning mum for my children and an income for our home. HE-ing taught us to look at family life and force flexibility and change into it, using some of the many flexible working options available to parents. It might seem a tall order but it can be done and we all see more of each other as a result.

There has never been a better time to work from home, work via the internet or use government initiatives to have a more satisfactory home life. HE-ing gave us the opportunity to assess our life, break out of an old fashioned model and try to do what actually suits OUR family better. There is no need to live by other peoples assumptions of how life should or must be and for us, Home Education was the beginning of quality time, flexible work, holidays and living and truly liberated children who are able to grow up and think for themselves.

We look, all the time, at how to improve things here because of course HE-ing and business ownership take up time and doesn't always work perfectly - but they do work and I'm quite sure it works at least as well as most homes with 2 full time working parents and 4 schooled children would.

[W Howard]

Why do people get so confrontational? Conversations about subjects like this would be so much more interesting and rewarding if we could avoid this urge to think in abstract generalisations and pompously pontificate about what we think is "best" for people we know nothing about and have never met. Henry Weiss please take note. No two families, indeed no two individuals, are the same. There's no such thing as one-size-fits-all and this is a country where we are still free (just) to make our own decisions about what's most appropriate for ourselves and our children when it comes to helping them acquire the most suitable tools and skills for their paths through life.

In the time I've been home educating (my children's choice), I've learned that it's virtually impossible to make generalisations about home education. There are almost as many styles of educating as there are families involved in it, so for every generalisation made and objection thrown up against it, there will be dozens who immediately answer "not so". Everything in life has its advantages and disadvantages and they are all relative, subjective, and context-dependent. A circumstance that plunges one person into self-destructive depression is the springboard for another's leap into inspirational activity. At the end of the day all we can do is what seems best at the time, and personally I've learned that my heart makes the right decision far more often than my head..

Our style of home education works for us because it's a better fit for our collective needs and preferences than the systematised one-size-fits-all approach of state education. We're not well off. I have to somehow fit earning a living around what we do, but "A Mother" is absolutely right when she says it's down to the choices you make. What I love most about home education is its naturalness, its spontaneity, its ability to effortlessly self-organise. I love seeing the excitement and passion for learning my kids exhibit; something I rarely, if ever, saw all the time they were in school. I love following the completely unpredictable twists and turns our explorations take us in and the new discoveries we make as a result. I love hearing them think for themselves, approaching problems from novel angles and applying critical thinking to established dogma.

But that's what suits us. It doesn't make us any "better" or "worse" than another family for whom the whole school thing is just as rewarding and fulfilling. What matters is that in this country we're still able to make the choices that suit the diversity of our children's characters and talents to help them live happy and fulfilling lives. Henry Weiss please take note.

[Texan Home School Mom]

The homeschool option (as it is called here in the States) is a valid, enriching, positive experience for both child and parent.

I have homeschooled my son, as a single parent, since 5th grade. He was unhappy in the public school system and begged to be homeschooled. It has been a tremendous experience for both of us. We used a homeschool curriculm from Christian Liberty Academy, a stringent, traditional Christian curriculm where an A is 94 and above, as in prep schools. His work was graded by the school so his A's were valid. Each year, he finished every chapter of every book unlike public school.

I was not on benefits, rather worked as a programming consultant.
He was very well socialized through Tae Kwon Do, Boy Scouts, Church Youth, Piano. He has always been socialized with all age groups, including the very young and the elderly.

He is graduating high school next year but has been taking college credit courses at the local community college.

He is an Eagle Scout with 4 palms (additional awards). He was voted New Student Leader of the Year last semester at the community college. He is active in various service organizations such as Habitat for Humanity, Student Government, Phi Theta Kappa. He was President of Entrepreneurs Club. He has been a judge for the Regional Science Fair Competition. He attended a NASA Scholars program by nomination through a Science teacher.

And he carries a 4.0 in his home school curriculm as well as his dual credit college courses. He has been published in a school journal.

He is Vice President of Leadership and recently received a scholarship to attend a Leadership conference for college students.

He is a committed Christian, active in his church and youth group and serves as an usher. He is preparing for a mission trip to Uganda the summer after graduation.

He has hopes to attend an Ivy League school.

He has a firm handshake and will look you straight in the eye. He can discuss engineering, politics and religion. He is well-read in the classics and is currently studying classical music.

While I initially resisted this option because I was employed full time, due to his persistence I agreed to homeschool him and I have no regrets. I strongly recommend the HomeSchool option.

[sara]

what an absolutely stupid response to james bartholemew's article.
he addresses socialization in the piece. the fact is that home-ed kids are regularly assessed as better socially than their schooled peers. in all studies done.
if they want to go to school you let them, similarly, if its too expensive or you don't want to put in the time or think you can't teach them something and can't be bothered to find out about it, send them to school!

[Paula Cleary]

Apologies, I meant Mary not Emma in my last comment.

Also I just wanted to say to the lady who took it very personally when I said that SOME people are very patronising;

I have to constantly defend the choice to home educate to perfect strangers who know absolutely nothing about us! They always ask exactly the same questions and time and time again people are actually very in the dark as to how it works, and people often ASSUME all sorts of ridiculous ideas. So if I am defensive at all, it is because I get a bit tired of people automatically jumping to all sorts of conclusions and stereotypes.

School life is generally rather more of a known quantity however, and I do have a lot of contact with what goes on in school from teachers and other professionals inside the system and friends of mine with kids in school, so I feel a little better qualified to comment on that than perhaps someone commenting on home education who hasn't met one of the many families where the children are thriving on it!

I do know that school can be wonderful in some cases, and there are some amazing teachers out there but as with home ed, the boot doesn't fit all. Teachers are very overstretched, poorly paid, and have their hands tied up with stupid amounts of red tape, all of which is frustrating for teachers and takes away from time spent enjoying the children - helping them to learn for the love of it, not simply to pass rounds of tests.

[Paula Cleary]

Apologies, I meant Mary not Emma in my last comment.

Also I just wanted to say to the lady who took it very personally when I said that SOME people are very patronising;

I have to constantly defend the choice to home educate to perfect strangers who know absolutely nothing about us! They always ask exactly the same questions and time and time again people are actually very in the dark as to how it works, and people often ASSUME all sorts of ridiculous ideas. So if I am defensive at all, it is because I get a bit tired of people automatically jumping to all sorts of conclusions and stereotypes.

School life is generally rather more of a known quantity however, and I do have a lot of contact with what goes on in school from teachers and other professionals inside the system and friends of mine with kids in school, so I feel a little better qualified to comment on that than perhaps someone commenting on home education who hasn't met one of the many families where the children are thriving on it!

I do know that school can be wonderful in some cases, and there are some amazing teachers out there but as with home ed, the boot doesn't fit all. Teachers are very overstretched, poorly paid, and have their hands tied up with stupid amounts of red tape, all of which is frustrating for teachers and takes away from time spent enjoying the children - helping them to learn for the love of it, not simply to pass rounds of tests.

[Alison Preuss]

For those interested in education rather than schooling, John Taylor Gatto is the keynote speaker at a conference to mark International Freedom in Education Day 2008. 'Learning Without Limits' is being hosted by Scotland's national HE organisation, Schoolhouse, and takes place in Arbroath, Angus next Friday 12 September. See www.schoolhouse.org.uk

[A mother]

The idea of children self-educating is obviously deeply distasteful to some. I recommend the TED talk on the hole-in-the-wall experiment. It's not my idea that children self-educate effectively given adequate resources (which needn't involve schools or teachers), it's the findings of a bunch of Indian educationalists (led by Sugata Mitra) who were themselves very surprised at their findings.

the TED talk is here: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves.html

It really gets going with the examples at 8 minutes in, and he says that, given access to a computer monitor, touch pad and the internet, groups of uneducated children with zero adult intervention were on "a learning curve almost exactly the same as you would find in a school" (that quote is from around 15 mins into the talk).

I'm really not suggesting that we simply leave every child alone with a computer for 11 years to self-educate. Sugata Mitra's findings do show, however, that the value of Expert Teachers and of Formal Learning Environments may have been somewhat overstated by the Education Industry.

[Lucie M]

Can't comment on HE but must say that school has got to be one of the most artificial environments we have. Sitting in a room with up to 30 (or more) children exactly your age plus or minus eleven months, under the charge of an unrelated adult. More a recipe for Lord of the Flies than beneficial socialisation. If it were possible, I think a child would be much better 'socialised' as part of a network of family and friends of varying ages and walks of life, as is the case in most societies today and historically. The social aspect is actually the thing that most worries me about school - in primary school, it can be very much 'eat or be eaten', and I don't much like the attributes which this need for survival brings out. Or the 'lowest common denominator' interests a child may be pressured to align themselves with so as not be branded 'weird' - TV shows, brand name toys, the celebrity world and manufactured music, thus falling prey to the 'tween' advertisers.

Yes, we ought to get involved with our schools, but we should also recognise that, in anthropological terms, it's a very odd set-up, and can be damaging to some children (even if others may thrive), and so be more flexible in our thinking.

[David Grant]

The reason that home education is becoming more popular is that more parents are realising that the increasingly-government-interfered-with education system is failing their children. Not true for all schools of course and I know that HE is not desired by all nor, sadly, possible for all who might wish to do so.
One has only to read, or re-read, the works of John Holt, John Taylor Gatto, Ivan Illich or A. S. Neill, for example, to realise how very far from real education the modern school system has strayed.
None of the arguments put forth by Henry Weiss stand up to scrutiny - unless you really believe that parents remain closeted in a room all day, every day, with their children. There is a world of open opportunities out there and a world of real people to meet too, rather than being herded together in the totally un-natural situation of a class of one's own age group, in an un-natural institutionalised environment.
We home educated all three of our children for a good part of the time. The one who had the greatest difficulties and who picked up the worst habits was the youngest, who opted to go back to school aged 13, in the mistaken belief that he would have plenty opportunities for sports. In fact he survived the experience and obtained the necessary exam results for university entry. His elder brother, who has not a school exam to his name, attended an open college and is also university-qualified, though he has opted not to go at this time. Their sister went straight into work at 16 and has never been out of work. They all have full social lives and plenty of friends.
You are talking complete rubbish Mr Weiss!
Emma of course makes the valid point that one should not attack the state system to justify home educating. And I don't. I also support her plea for support. Home education should be supported by the state with at least the same money per child as going to a state school would otherwise cost. It seems only fair - especially as at the moment the state is actually saving that sum.
The one thing that is certain is that the whole concept of education as it stands today needs stripping out and rethinking from top to bottom. All it seems to be geared to just now is turning out subservient clones, easy for the gvernment to control.

[sscape]

"give children access to the monitor and touchpad/mouse of a computer with internet access, leave them entirely alone, and they will teach themselves to a level equivalent to that which they would be getting in school." Baloney! haven't you found youporn yet? Your kid has.

HE is not for everyone. But lauding schools as comprehensively competent and an automaic better choice is baloney, too. If you are only smack average in everything, or a little less, schools are for you. If you struggle or are bright you will not get what you should from schools. Having being raised a funamentalist- there are many ways of socially isolating a child while sending them to school. This is just too partisan. The choice is up to the parents and the needs of the children. Blanket statements need not apply.

[A mother]

Mary: I am sad that you had such a bad experience. I think things are changing fast - the numbers of UK families turning to HE is growing really fast, so that isolation may not be such a factor now as it was for you.

On the internet thing: it's not my idea! It's a piece of well documented and enormous research undertaken in various parts of India where, truly, groups of children with access to these hole in the wall computers taught themselves how to use computers, how to read, how to read English (all there in the experiment, since some of the isolated villages they put these computers in had no English teaching in the village school)... no, of course just giving a child internet access doesn't mean they will educate themselves. The conclusion of the experiment was that teachers are not a big part of learning, not that access to the internet is a magical answer.

About whether parents are the right people to decide what a child needs to/ought to know: I agree they are not the right people. But neither is a teacher or a Whitehall pen pusher. The right person to decide what a child needs to know at any given pointis that child. You can teach a child anything you want, but you have no control over what they will learn, and that goes for HE as much as for school.

I think that a child with really controlling parents may indeed be very much better off in school than under the beady eye of a parent all day long. That would be a matter for those children to resolve with their own parents rather than for commentators to make general rules about, I think.

[Paula Cleary]

I just wanted to add that there are also many clubs that children can attend. My own kids attend Gymnastics, Tae-kwondo, and Beavers, where they benefit from mixing with schooled children and being disciplined by other adults outside of the home education community.

I feel very sorry for Emma, who obviously had a very introverted and isolating home education experience - I would say that this is the exception and not the norm.

Furthermore, there are plenty of kids at school who are miserable about their parents, their home set up, school set up, friends, job prospects etc...

Home ed is not for everyone, but it really works well for my kids because I work damned hard at providing a wide range of opportunities and social experiences for them. Don't be put off because one person says they had a bad time of it. Like anything, you get out what you put in.

[asilon]

What a simplistic blogpost. Home educators do actually *think* about what it might be like before they make the decision, you know! As if anyone trying to work out whether HE would be the right thing for their family would read your list of 'disadvantages' and say, "Oh, it might take up a lot of my time! Gosh, hadn't realised that! Better send little Johnny to school then!"

[Helen]

"Why would the benefits of having a home-based education to the parent-child relationship suddenly dissipate at the age of 4? "

So true. I've never understood why mothers (always the mothers, never the dads, even though kids need both their parents - apologies to single parents - I know many of you haven't chosen it) are demonised for putting children into nurseries but schooling is fine? What's the magic difference between being 4 at nursery and being 4 at school?

My son is at school and HEd would never work for us - he loves school. And we can't afford to give up an income - with the credit crunch I can imagine will become the case even more. But many kids love HEd. And many would thrive with a mix, which IS legal, whatever an HT might try to tell you. Of course, we all do have part time home ed, given the holidays are at least 13 weeks and even more if the kids are in private schools. And PT HEd might work for parents who need to work at least part of the time. It would be good to have a sensible debate about this, rather than people throwing silly remarks into the forum.

[Jo]

Both sides seem very defensive about their choices. I have known a few different HE kids, their parents often encourage them to do things with other children their age after school, such as drama, music or social groups (Woodcraft Folk, Brownies, Scouts). My impression is that those who aren't very socially developed porbably would have been the same at school. Either they were late developers or just not that interested in interacting with people. In fact I met a brother and sister who were both home educated and they each had very different social skills (hers much better that his). I think that part of the article is quite misguided.

[Mary]

I was home schooled for several years and I am absolutely anti.

It is by definition isolating, incredibly difficult to really get any social interaction with ones peers in the way that one does at school, and however willing a parent is they cannot possibly cover all subjects in the depth that is required at secondary level. Also the relationship angle that has been mentioned already. And, er, sorry A Mother but no a child left with the internet won't magically educate themselves.

For me, the particular sentences that irritated in the original article were "But all parents would have different ideas of what they want their children to know. You can go for whatever you think important." Yes, but what makes you so sure that what you think is important is actually what the child will want or need to know in the future? Home schooling may well be a "glorious, liberating, empowering, profoundly fulfilling thing to do" for the parent, but does it necessarily liberate, empower or fulfil the child? If you particularly want to go into something in more depth then there are quite long holidays when you can do that.

I don't doubt that some home schoolers are better than some teachers and I am aware that for a few there are overwhelming reasons why school doesn't work. But for the rest my advice is DON'T. Consider your child's all-around wellbeing rather than just your own ego and spend your energy on finding (and maybe even contributing to and helping) your nearest decent school.

In case you are wondering, I eventually rebelled against home schooling, went to school and had a very difficult time at first catching up on the things that my parents hadn't considered 'important' and learning to socialise with and work with my classmates and teachers. Having got over that I did just fine and was very grateful that I'd finally put my foot down.

[Gipsy]

How about we don't patronise you if you don't patronise us? It is the holier than thou and judgemental attitude of the home educationalists that I've met who've put me off doing it myself (although I will if I can get the money together to do so, for a couple of years anyway). It does seem to bring out the sanctimonious in people. Ie "I feel sorry for some of the school kids i know who have by contrast a rather mono-dimensional social life."

[Paula Cleary]

It is difficult for some people to get their heads round the idea that home- educated kids are well socialised. Why?

Some of the assumptions made in this article are actually very dangerous as they are based on a notion of home education that bears little resemblance to the reality.

We home educate our children and have a very rich social life, with a support network and peer group which consists of all sorts of people. We have close links with family members, friends of all ages and from all walks of life, and if anything, I feel sorry for some of the school kids i know who have by contrast a rather mono-dimensional social life. Our home education meetings are regularly attended by at least 10 families+, with children of all ages mixing together, learning from each other, doing all the usual stuff kids do etc... My sons' friends range from tiny babies to old folks. Girls and boys. School divides people into silly little groups.

Please don't patronise home educators by assuming we don't fully integrate with society and instead keep the kids locked
away at home every day keeping ourselves to ourselves.... this is such a load of rubbish!!!!!

Incidentally, at least five families to have joined our local home education network have one or even two teachers as parents. They themselves say how it is a myth that socialising in schools is so wonderful, and many have a LOT to say about the state of schools nowadays - they would know. I also hear a lot of bad stories about school from my friends in the village whose children attand school.

So please stop going on about how wonderful schools are, and please don't assume we are all off to Italy or the Pyramids either - most of us are just ordinary folks who want to give our kids a more rewarding learning and social experience than we feel school can offer!

[Louisa HS]

There's some young peoples' acounts here too http://www.education-otherwise.org/Young%20People/YPIndex.htm