From bankers to teachers? Not when they find out about salaries.....

Alexandra Frean, Education Editor, is not convinced that all those newly unemployed bankers and finance staff really do want to become teachers.....

"Do you have any idea how much your child’s teacher earns? You might be surprise by how much (little) it is.

Any time soon, according to the TDA (the Training and Development Agency for Schools, which is responsible for training the school workforce) your child could be given lessons by one of the thousands of bankers and finance staff who have lost their jobs as a result of the economic meltdown in the City. Really?

The TDA claims that the number of people enquiring about becoming a teacher has risen by almost 34 per cent since the start of the credit crunch. This should come as no surprise, since economic downturns have always led to a boom in teacher recruitment: when people cannot find work anywhere else, a solid and secure job in the classroom suddenly seems very attractive.

But while bankers may well be enquiring about teaching jobs, I wonder just how many will stay the course once they discover how much teachers earn.

In state schools in England and Wales all qualified teachers are paid according to pay scales, updated each September by the government. Right now, the starting rate for NQTs (newly qualified teachers ) in England and Wales is £20,627 a year (or £25,000 if you work in inner London). For unqualified teachers, pay starts at around £16,000.

Heads can earn up to £100,000 (some in very large and demanding schools earn more than that). Average pay in the profession is currently running at around £35,000. Check out teacher pay scales here.

In independent schools, pay can be higher, although this is not always true for smaller schools. Terms and conditions are often worse than in the state sector and it is not unknown for teachers in these schools to be employed without a basic contract.

Teachers' pay has risen enormously under Labour, workforce reforms have reduced teachers' working hours and a survey from the business consultancy GoodCorporation suggests that state schools are considered the fairest places to work by their employees. But still, pay is just a fraction of what City bankers take home.

If there are any bankers who are not deterred by the pay, the City’s loss could well be the teaching profession’s gain. Children can benefit enormously from being taught by a teacher who can draw on experience from outside the classroom. And the bankers should not feel too out of place, since the average age of NQTs is now 30+, suggesting that teaching is already a second career for many.

A word of caution, though, from Christine Blower, acting general secretary for the National Union of Teachers, who points out that around 40 per cent of teachers drop out of the profession within two years of entering it because they realise it is not for them. Teaching, she notes, is a vocation. It is hard work with very long hours during term time and you have to have a calling for it.

Ms Blower is currently lobbying for more pay for teachers and the union will ballot its members next week over possible strike action on the issue. They complain that the government is limiting teachers’ pay increases for 2008-2011 to levels which do not match the current rate of inflation.

While it seems unlikely that there will be widespread public support for a teachers' strike over pay in the current economic climate, it is worth noting that teachers’ pay increases have already been below inflation every year from 2005 onwards. This has meant a pay cut in real terms."

Read School Gate on

Do our children need male primary school teachers?

Why I went into teaching, by a male primary school teacher

The true cost of rising school fees

Choosing to go private

Comments

[simon]

Teachers do a vital job. There is no reason ex-bankers cannot retrain to do the job, but they need proper training, six months is not enough. However, teacher pay is not bad, and if you get to be a head you can earn £100,000+ (don't forget the average City salary is only around £50,000).

[Jim]

I'm just about to finish my first degree and want to go into teaching. But due to the recession and increased competition, it looks harder for me to get training because the "life experience" of a failed banker who is only going to be a teacher for or 4 years until they can go back into banking, is counted for more than my degree and motivation to be a teacher for my working life.

[Robert]

George:
Because:
1. Believe it or not, I actually enjoyed teaching. But that doesn't mean it was rewarded with a huge salary and benefits. And let me tell you something here: I spent a hell of a lot of my very ordinary salay on teaching materials.

2. By the time the Government and local authorities had made the job intolerable, I decided it was too late to change careers. that was my choice, I don't have to apologise for it, and making that choice doesn't alter the reality of what teaching has become - a nightmare.

3. Are you a teacher? If not, I could ask why, since you think the job's so wonderful, why don't you (and James) go and do it?

4. Finally, in case you haven't noticed, although I didn't get out during the "boom" years, a hell of a lot did.

[Guy]

M Johnson

The fact remains that there arent that many "failed banker"s out there

It's a useful scapegoat for the government to wave about to cover the mess they created

Also those in the financial industry and other senior white collar professionals are likely to be far more highly academically qualified than your average teacher

When I graduated anyone with a decent chance of a business career went for that as it provided higher salary, better prospects, no government interference and no underclass kids to deal with in some inner city comprehensive. The people who went into teaching, say via a PGCE, where either the view moved to it as their chosen vocation and a lot who couldn't get anything in business/science.

The notion that for £20,000 pa starting (with all the additional problems) you are going to get the brightest and the best entering teaching is laughable.

Finally I'd rather have a "failed banker" teaching my kids maths than some NUT leftie more interested in political dogma, anti competition and pro the bog standard comprehensive education that has caused somuch damage.

[M. Johnson]

Can you imagine your child being taught mathematics by a failed banker (any company worth his salt would keep the good ones)who has been found as surplus to requirements. The banking sector has been found wanting, to push them into teaching smacks of desperation.

[Chris K]

As an engineer with 20+ years' experience I would probably find teaching and "giving something back" quite rewarding, but there's no way I could tolerate all the political interference, inane targets, and excessive bureaucracy.

[George]

apologies about the "typos" that just slipped through the net. I did of course mean to say "illiterate" as well as innumerate.

And the word teachers slipped into the bit about negotiating paycuts! Come to think of it, maybe we should all be able negotiate pay cuts for Britain's army of whingeing teachers...

You remember. The ones who stay at home when there is a bit of snow on the ground.

[George]

Robert...if being a teacher is so lacking in rewards, why did you not get out during the "boom" years?

James is spot on. As for Christine Blower, communist leader of the NUT, there should be a public sector pay freeze this year when so many private sector workers (who pay teachers generous packages) are negotiating teachers pay cuts in an attempt to stay in a job.

Attracting "top" people will make little difference. Until state education is free from the control of the left, state schools will be nothing more than very expensive child-minding factories churning out the innumerate and illerate.

[David skands]

I'm an ex banker working as a physics teacher in Hong Kong. I have a lovely life compared to my previous existence.
My salary is about £61,000 before tax. My accommodation is provided, along with health insurance and management pay. I teach 12 hours a week and take 10 weeks holiday per year.

I recommend the profession to anyone. My students are lively, intelligent and respect my opinion. The parents also respect my opinion because i had a successful career before teaching.
However, I am also privately educated, and hold a first class undergraduate degree and PhD from a very prestigious university.

It might though also be, just because i enjoy the job and have enough resources to really engage my students.

Wouldn't you like someone like me teaching your children? Well good luck!!!

[Guy]

I have a degree, post grad, professional exams and have worked in business in senior roles for 15 years.

Would I consider teaching as a profession?

Not a chance in hell. Low pay, horrible kids all day long and constant political interference

I'll ride out the recession (take unemployment benefit if I'm out of work) and carry on with my career when things ease up.

Teaching as an option is a big NO.

[Maurice Barnwell]

Why not an about face. Given the moral ineptitude demonstrated by the banking fraternity why not take six months to turn underemployed teachers into bankers?

[Onlooker.......]

I have just nurtured and supported my daughter through her education. I am very proud of the wonderful, balanced and competent adult she has become. She is a talented sportswoman and loves art. She has an impressive list of qualifications including 12 top grade GCSE's, 4 Good 'A' levels and a 2.1 BSc. in geography. She took time out to travel and broaden her mind, after the degree and is now poised and determined to be a primary school teacher. To that end she has worked for a pittance at a primary school for a whole year, to gain valuable hands-on experience with children. She has loved every minute of it and has gained herself an exemplary reputation.
Last week after a great deal of preparation she went for interview at the university where she gained her degree and was told that she was most definitely of the correct material to be a teacher but that they were so oversubscribed that they had put her on a RESERVE list and she could try again next year. Yeah right! My daughter is 24 years old and needs to get on with her career and her life!
Where are all these PGCE places that the "Bankers" are going to be offered? Will it be at the expense of people like my daughter who have deliberately chosen teaching as a career. My daughter wants to do a PGCE and she wants to do it as soon as possible! This Government needs to get a grip!

[M. Cawdery]

I am afraid that this is just another Brown attempt to distract attention from his very real self-created financial problems.

Because you are a high flyer in Banking, or industry or whatever does not mean that you are or can become a good teacher. Likewise, because you have not got 3 As or Bs or Cs at A-Levels does not mean you can not be a very good teachers. In my day (long time ago) the good teachers were invariably the not so brilliant - they understood the problems of the less bright.

In short another attempt to baffle brains with bovine faecal materail

[Robert]

To James (1101-54):

As a teacher of 25 years' experiemnce, let me assure you that there is NOTHING generous about the terms and conditions of teachers.

You, my fried, are talking directly out of your backside.

[Robert]

"From bankers to teachers? Not when they find out about salaries.....":

No - and not when they find out what the job entails, either.

The Government will fast track them in - and the local authorities, Ofsted inspectors and pupils will fast track them out.

[jack]

Enjoy teaching?
a) No office
b) Pointless paperwork
c) the vast majority of students don't want to be there
d) Poor pay
e) Worn out buildings
f) No shops / nice lunches
g) Politically determined curriculum
h) Key point of teaching is it's cheap babysitting for society

[James]

Teachers’ pay and conditions are extremely generous when compared with most private sector alternatives. I qualified as a lawyer three years ago. Many of my contemporaries are teachers and earn similar (in some cases significantly higher) salaries but without the huge law school debts. They have an additional 8 weeks holiday, shorter working days, exorbitant pension, generous “management” allowances, better paternity and maternity pay, total job security etc etc. With a more or less guaranteed move up the pay scale each year (worth around an extra £2k) on top of their 2.5% pay deal, this amounts to around a 7-8% pay rise this year and next. With pay frozen more or less across the board in the private sector for the foreseeable future and pay cuts and redundancies on the cards, I am struggling to think of a good reason NOT to be a teacher.

[jack]

Enjoy teaching?
a) No office
b) Pointless paperwork
c) the vast majority of students don't want to be there
d) Poor pay
e) Worn out buildings
f) No shops / nice lunches
g) Politically determined curriculum
h) Key point of teaching is it's cheap babysitting for society

[James Atkin]

Bankers/economists/buisness people are motivated by greed - teachers by a desire to help young people achieve. In addition, I am not sure someone who helped to ruin the countries finacial institutions should be teaching young people how to run one. "Now children - say I have 1 million pounds. This means I can lend 2 million pounds to someone with no money, who can't pay it back. How much money will I have then?"

[e thomas]

I do hope alex is not a teacher.I presume he meant to write decent and not descent

[M]

The reason why teachers get paid less is because it is a mostly feminised profession. I wonder though about why teachers deserve more than a really effective PA/Administrator with a degree? Most PAs and admin staff don't get paid more than 30k a year. And a lot of people don't do a 9-5 day either. I know people who have worked in PR who have had to be in the office for 7/8 am and haven't left till 10 pm, maybe not every day, but they don't get any more holiday than the 20 or so days that is usually offered.

I think it is a good thing, however, that teaching is a becoming a second career choice. I think the more people who have had a taste of life outside the classroom and can bring that to young people the better. I am considering a teaching career after being a full time mother. I have previously worked in marketing/pr. I am passionate about art, history, literature, science. I enjoy learning myself. I want to share my enjoyment. I would rather start by volunteering and becoming a teaching assistant for while to see if it is something I really want to do. I don't think fast tracking is a route I would feel comfortable with. Having said that some people are total naturals so why not?

[Roger Benstone]

why do u guys all want to blame the bankers!

blame yourselves for being greedy and voting for that ridiculous goverment we now have....

sorry who put in gordon in charge?

and then he starts telling us what we should do with our lifes!

if teaching is so great how come you all moan about it!

[Unfair ??]

Cant believe that teachers still winge about their pay ! When will people grow up and realise that they actually earn more than enough to live on ! Typical of the middle class personal greed that now has us in this predicament !! Wah Wah , He's got more than me, Wah Wah !

[Emma]

I have been a secondary school teacher for the past four years. Prior to this, I had a ten year career in press and PR. How do the two jobs compare?

Teaching is much, much more intensive hard work because you are "on" for your whole teaching day. It's like doing seven matinee performances a day

You are working with many individuals who go out of their way to make your work harder (some students)

The pay is far better than I earned in PR even after ten years at the BBC

The security, pension and holidays are great

I reckon I work the same number of hours a year, just that they are squeezed into fewer days

As a teacher, I work a lot of time that non-teachers do not recognise; at work by 7:30am and at the end of a day teaching, my "work" begins(marking, preparing, making resources, researching, chasing up parents, chasing up students, doing admin, taking care of extra curricular activities, attending open evenings, prizegivings, parents' evenings, etc, etc). This work continues for a further four hours most days, and spills over into weekends and holidays.

On balance I'm glad I do it because I enjoy working with the students and because of the benefits, but it's a very close call whether the benefits outweigh the disadvantages

[Sarah]

If you think that's bad, try working in a library - we get paid a pittance...

[supermother]

I like the Thomas answer.

There is quite a lot of demand for teaching posts now, more applicants etc since wages went up so now is not the time to put up wages further.

I know people who left the City and went to teach or to become vicars etc. it's a fairly well worn path. I don't think most of them long term are happy with that unless they already made some money an dput it aside for harder times.

[Diana]

My 3 boys are taught Further Maths by a teacher who had a previous career in finance. He benefits from maturity (past having babies keeping him up all night), financial security and explains that the novelty of doing a job he enjoys is compensation for the low level of respect for teachers. (Of course, respect has dropped for bankers)

[CB]

My friends who are teachers are doing considerably well compared to my friends in the private sector! My teacher friends walk into £20-£25K jobs and are up to £30K+ within a few years. Their pensions are guaranteed, and so are their long holidays. They get help with housing, and many of them intend to take early retirement. My friends in the private sector: not so good. The jobs are unstable, the pension provision is - at best - paltry, the salaries are mediocre and the opportunities for home ownership are slim. I know that teachers work very hard, but I think that they are paid well too! If I knew then what I know now, I'd have done a PGCE straight out of university.
Mind you, when private sector jobs and pension funds are being slashed left, right and centre, I am rather startled that teachers are demanding chunky pay rises. Do they live in the real world?

[THomas]

There's more than a little suggestion around here that bankers are immoral and that this disqualifies them from becoming teachers.

However, the teaching profession is itself morally dubious. As a teacher you are being paid to strip children of their rights by herding them together and requiring them to think about certain things against their will -- under threat of punishment.

Boredom and bullying result. Also huge stress for the teachers themselves, which doublethink cannot wholly eliminate.

[Pinkie]

A good idea in principle. Teaching badly needs an influx from the real world as most teachers have never left school.

The trouble is, there is an anti-private sector culture prevalent in schools; the overwelming majority of teachers remain committed Brownites or worse (SWP.) Bankers will face a good deal of resentment and hostility if they attempt to bring real world commonsense into the classroom.

As an NUT leader once remarked at the suggestion of the private sector playing a supporting part in schools: "We don't want their funny ideas infecting our children."

As a consequence they will not stay teachers for very long. As soon as the economy picks up they will return to the fresh air and sunshine.

The trouble is businesses do not employ ex-teachers. The old "those that can..." rule are not lost on employers, especially now when they look at the calibre of students that schools churn out and then turn to better educated Eastern Europeans.

[m wilson.]

It is a hell of a lot more than a soldier gets and no where near as much hard work in lousy conditions.

[Amanda Tomkins]

That is not an average salary!
It's average when you use the top salary for heads and the lower salary for NQTs but the average teacher is not on £35000
We're paid Pro Rata meaning we don't get the holidays paid - we get paid for the 195 days we're in school divided by 12 months (obviously we get some of it holiday as does everyone).
We DO work holiday times but obviously not all of them. We're not stupid enough to think people would believe this.
I always just agree with people who tell me to my face I get too many holidays. I let them believe I spend all weekend in bed, or shopping or away for a few days, it's fine. I know what I get out of my job and why I do it but I do know that I'll be working this morning and all tomorrow afternoon to get ready for the week ahead. I'll also be at school from about 7.30am until about 9pm for an open evening on Wednesday but no one takes that into consideration.
I do this job because I love. No one teaches for the money.
I invite any one who thinks we have an easy life to come and work and live with me for a few weeks and then still say the same.

[Alex]

I suppose anyone descent with a few years in the City should own their own home. With no mortgage and no need for a flashy car, a teacher's salary is fine.

[Clive]

£35000 average salary may not sound wonderful, but it's some £10000 above the National Average. The real difference though lies in the Pension benefits. £35000 as a Teacher is equivalent to about $43000 in most jobs in the Private Sector. They are also guaranteed a job for life plus a Pension they can live on, unlike the rest of us.
Not as good as the Banking Sector I'm sure, but in the event of contraction in that market it's probably the next best thing.

[rictus]

Wonderful. The ex-bankers and ex-army types will burst through the school gates and show the kids what life is really all about. Money and violence. The triumph of the real gangsta culture.

[Rose, SD, USA]

As a teacher in the states, one with over 23 years of experience and a BA and MS in geology, I can tell you that my summers aren't "off" (I have to work summers to put my children through college and I'm saving for a car that is "post-1993) nor are my "vacation" days. I am often in the classroom or taking classes to become a better teacher (something that businesses do all the time, but they don't call it "vacation".) I work my tail off year round and resent the idea that I have more time off than others. I DON'T. Follow a teacher for a day and you'll see an untiring person working at a thankless job. However, I wouldn't do anything else! I AM A TEACHER!

[Rose, SD, USA]

As a teacher in the states, one with over 23 years of experience and a BA and MS in geology, I can tell you that my summers aren't "off" (I have to work summers to put my children through college and I'm saving for a car that is "post-1993) nor are my "vacation" days. I am often in the classroom or taking classes to become a better teacher (something that businesses do all the time, but they don't call it "vacation".) I work my tail off year round and resent the idea that I have more time off than others. I DON'T. Follow a teacher for a day and you'll see an untiring person working at a thankless job. However, I wouldn't do anything else! I AM A TEACHER!

[Tom Ransbow]

It might attract bankers to know that teachers get anything from 12-16 weeks holiday a year on top of a reasonably generous salary and pension.

Don't believe theis lies about having to work during their holidays.

We all know that most teachers are enjoying the sun while the rest of us have to work. On our tax payments mind you....

[will]

ive never understood the allure of teaching, it seems like such a waste of talent. basically a teacher should be a motivational speaker more than anything else, especially in infants/junior school. i mean do you really need a univeristy degree to teach a 5 year old the alphabet or how to count to 10?

[Peter]

I quit The City after the Enron scam put me out of a job. I was just one of those people who operate the computers. I wanted to return to teaching but with an out of date track record in education couldn't get work. I taught English in Italy for two years which opened my eyes (TEFL is a rip off). I haven't worked since but I wouldn't go back to The City even if I could. I live from my savings and my girl friend's charity.

[whimsey]

Fair point, Jo.

And if the 'real' investment bankers didn't have the nous to invest their bonuses and fat salaries into something lucrative and safe for a rainy day, it only goes to prove that they really WERE unfit to handle the nation's money!

[Jo]

Um.. many of the people losing their jobs in the cities wont be hot shot bankers but middle or back office people like me. People paid more than teachers, but not double or triple the amount. It is isn't their fault that this mess has arisen they are just being dragged down withbeveryone else and wont have huge portfolios and massive houses to cushion the blow.

[Gill]

I know we're forever being told the average teacher's salary is around £35,000, but I'd love to know how they calculate that!

Since most teachers are on the main scale, and the top of the main scale salary is about £30,000, any ex-bankers are in for an even bigger shock when they trade in their spreadsheets for a large pile of marking.

[whimsey]

Yes, I wouldn't want a shallow, money-grubbing waste-of-human-space oik like an investment banker coming anywhere near my kids, thank you very much! Not exactly a good role model - hey kids, why not spend your life doing a job that the world would be better off if no one did it, for a salary that could feed a hundred families in Africa (a thousand, maybe?), with stress levels that will kill you by 40, and to have a family life that consists of seeing your wife and children er, well, not, actually.

No thank you.

[Mike]

What kind of lessons would our children learn from all those bankers, who have got us into the current economic mess with their lack of foresight, their arrogance and their greed. I can't imagine that many of them would be much good at relating to and engaging a class full of teenagers from deprived backgrounds. But, of course, they wouldn't want to teach in that kind of school.

[Sandy]

Is that really all the average teacher earns? I'm really surprised. Perhaps if we paid them more, we might attract better teachers and get better schools.